Hour 3: Clarkson Re-Signs

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg — Hour 3: Clarkson Re-Signs

Date: July 9, 2026
Main Theme: Knicks' successful offseason, NBA roster construction under new financial restrictions, and the wider implications for sports team management and fan culture.

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Episode Overview

Hour 3 centers on the New York Knicks’ remarkable offseason maneuvers, headlined by the re-signing of Jordan Clarkson and several key depth pieces, accomplished while navigating the NBA’s tough new CBA “second apron” restrictions. The hosts hail the Knicks’ front office as one of the best in New York and debate broader issues of modern sports ownership, fan expectations, and nostalgia in team branding.

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Knicks’ Offseason: Smart Moves Under Pressure

(00:40–04:16)

• Clarkson Re-Signing & Roster Overview
  • The Knicks kept their starting five, shored up depth, and (amid salary cap pressures) managed to re-sign multiple key role players—Jose Alvarado, Landry Shamet, Mohamed Diawara (Cool Mode Mode), and today, Jordan Clarkson.
  • Letting Mitchell Robinson go (due to cost) was offset by picking up Andre Drummond as a rebounding specialist.

“They [the Knicks] were able to sign...three of the four critical pieces. Mitchell Robinson you knew you weren't going to be able to do...Instead of using 15 million on one player, they use 17 million on three players...including a young, talented wing...Mohamed Diawara, and you're going to see more of him in the next year.”
— Alan Hahn (01:05)

• Creativity With Contracts
  • The contracts are partly or non-guaranteed, allowing flexibility if needed.
  • Several role players took less than their potential market value out of cultural loyalty and team atmosphere, bucking the norm of chasing bigger, less-desirable deals elsewhere.
  • The front office, led by Leon Rose and Brock Aller, praised for “voodoo powers” in maneuvering contracts.

“There is a trend here with the Knicks as far as the back end of some of these contracts, either partial or non guarantee...Basically, they signed three guys for, I don't know, $13 million.”
— Bobby Marks via audio clip (03:43)

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A Model Front Office in NYC

(04:16–10:10)

• Comparisons to Other Teams
  • The Knicks’ front office is described as "elite," especially considering the franchise’s historical dysfunction.
  • Leon Rose's leadership is singled out as transformative, turning the Knicks from a league laughingstock into a championship team.

“At one point...the Knicks franchise...just couldn't get out of their own way...Now...this is an elite front office in the NBA. They were able to do something like this, keep a championship roster together despite...unrestricted free agency.”
— Alan Hahn (05:31)

• “Destination” Franchise Status
  • Knicks, once infamous for their owner (Dolan) and a toxic environment, are now cited as the best-managed of NYC’s “big four” teams—better than the Yankees, Mets, Giants, and Rangers.

“Of the nine professional sports franchises in the Big Four in New York, it's the Knicks with a bullet that have the best front office...Better than the Yankees, better than the Mets...because you hire the right guy.”
— Michael Rosenberg (06:20)

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Young Talent & Player Development

(07:25–10:10)

• Spotlight on Mohamed Diawara (“Cool Mode Mode”)
  • A 20-year-old defensive wing with huge potential, seen as a key developmental piece. Praised for shutting down opposing stars and fitting into both current and future rosters.

“He has three-and-D potential through the roof...almost 6’10” now...Did a tremendous job defensively on Jalen Brown.”
— Alan Hahn (08:30)

• Strategic Flexibility
  • Knicks opting not to make certain draft picks to avoid guaranteed salary commitments, keeping flexibility for core retention.

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NBA Economics: Pressure of the “Second Apron”

(10:10–13:18)

• Changing Financial Landscape
  • The new NBA CBA “second apron” is fundamentally resetting how teams build rosters. Teams like Boston are forced to make tough, sometimes unpopular, cost-driven roster moves.

“Boston the last...two years has dismantled what was the championship team because they couldn't keep everybody together...The Knicks did not dismantle. They kept it together.”
— Alan Hahn (10:46)

• Sustaining Success vs. Chasing Rings
  • Hosts debate if this approach guarantees another title, but all agree on the value of sustainable contention and positive perception.

“They've completely changed their image from ‘nobody wants to play for Dolan, Knicks aren't cool’...to now becoming a destination.”
— Michael Rosenberg (11:07)

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Callers: Ownership, Profits & Fan Perspective

(27:12–33:55)

• Fans Push Back on “Billionaire Problems”
  • Multiple callers, especially “George,” express little sympathy for billionaire owners citing business concerns. Stress that winning, not just profit, grows value and community loyalty.

“It's not like they're spending...their little bit of money...on these stadiums, their own money, and they might actually be on the street...The very least they could do is put out a winning product, bro. Try their very best to hire the best people to put out and not sacrifice any seasons, man, for some money ever.”
— Caller, “George” (27:24)

• Hosts Respond: Economics Still Rule
  • The show underscores that for most owners (especially with investors/shareholders), making money is at least as important as winning. Many teams, like the Yankees or Red Sox, balance business priorities with fielding competitive teams.

“It's not about nobody's losing money…It's, can we make more money?”
— Alan Hahn (29:47)

• **Touchpoints:
  • Franchise values and borrowing against assets (38:34).
  • Investors vs. traditional owners—decision-making shifts when teams are part of big investment groups (40:35).

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Other Sports & Nostalgia: Jerseys and Fandom

(45:00–51:36)

• Islanders Jersey Design Contest
  • Discussion on teams embracing fan-designed “third jerseys.” Islanders’ history of odd choices (“Gordon’s Fish Stick” logo) and the impact of branding on nostalgia.
  • Playful barbs exchanged about other teams’ jersey history and the value of tradition vs. innovation.

“I told John [Ledecky], if we go back to [the fisherman jersey], he might lose me...A lighthouse makes sense, doesn't it?”
— Alan Hahn (46:16)

• Nostalgia vs. Winning
  • Debate about fandom rooted in “bad old days” vs. the winning years. Many fell in love with teams while they were losing—jerseys and team branding from those eras retain sentimental value.

“I fell in love with the Mets when they were lousy...if that’s when you fell in love with the team, you’re going to be nostalgic about that team.”
— Michael Rosenberg (49:30, 51:04)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Knicks’ Culture Change:

  “You know how dangerous that is for the rest of the league, that New York becomes a destination?”
  — Michael Rosenberg (11:07)

• On Contracts & Flexibility:

  “These aren’t fully guaranteed…they can get out of this in two years or one year…It really is special.”
  — Alan Hahn (04:16)

• On New CBA Realities:

  “If you make over a certain amount of money, you’re going to get taxed two times…three times. Three times tax.”
  — Alan Hahn (19:23)

• On Fan Nostalgia:

  “Winning is very nostalgic.”
  — Alan Hahn (49:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:40–04:16 — Knicks’ offseason haul, Clarkson signing, and managing the cap
• 04:16–10:10 — Elite front office, transformation under Leon Rose
• 10:10–13:18 — Roster sustainability and player/market reputation shift
• 27:12–33:55 — Fan calls: Owners’ profit vs. winning, franchise value debates
• 45:00–51:36 — Islanders jersey contest and nostalgia in sports fandom

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Takeaway Summary

This episode is a celebration of the New York Knicks’ smart, disciplined front office work—especially their ability to keep a championship-caliber roster together despite new constraints, reshaping the team's identity in New York sports. Beyond basketball, the conversation extends to how financial pressures, ownership structures, and shifting values shape the future of all major league teams. The show closes on a lighter note with a fun, nostalgic discussion about sports branding and how fans’ connections to teams can transcend wins and losses.

Transcript

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[Don Hahn]

this is the don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Michael Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers 500

[Michael Rosenberg]

one of the big city Don Hahn and Rosenberg take you right up till 7 o' clock and then it's Ty Butler right up. It'll take you up until nine. Yankees win, Mets win. We'll get into the baseball a little bit later on, but the Knicks are almost complete out. Almost complete. They had a couple of holes to fill. They filled one of them today. So how you feeling about their off season so far?

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, it's really remarkable if you think about the key pieces. Look, starting fives on the contract. You never had to worry about that part of it. You knew your starting five would be back. The depth of this team was a strength this year and a lot of guys played really well. And the question was, how are you going to be able to sign all these guys and stay under the second apron? Because the owner made it clear he did not want to be a second apron team and so they were able to sign. Think about this. Of the four critical pieces, three of them, the one you knew you weren't going to be able to do was Mitchell Robinson because 15 million would have been all of it. So Instead of using 15 million on one player, they use 17 million on three players. Actually four players because they also kept a young, talented wing that Nick fans know. Most fans don't know this name, but I'll tell you this name and it's a name you're probably going to see more and more in the next year.

[Michael Rosenberg]

She loves.

[Peter Vescey]

No, it was a guess.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no.

[Peter Vescey]

All right.

[Alan Hahn]

But you can call him Cool Mode Mode. And he's going to be the he they found him last year in the draft. During the season, Mike Brown fell in love with him and he's just 20 years old and so they signed him. They made him a priority. They brought back Landry Shamit, as we know. They brought back Jose Alvarado who they traded for and today officially signed Jordan Clarkson.

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah, you were Done.

[Alan Hahn]

So now you have those key pieces and what you couldn't do with Robinson, you signed Andre Drummond, who obviously isn't breaking the same defense, but he does rebound really well. There's one roster spot open right now. They're not completely done. It's interesting to see what they end up doing. Summer league is going to begin here. But it is remarkable how Leon Rose in his front office was able to take what was seemed like a really restrictive situation for them to run it back with a championship roster that really grew together. Bless you.

[Charles Barkley]

Oh boy.

[Peter Vescey]

Bless you.

[Alan Hahn]

And he was able to keep a majority of the pieces, so how could you not, if you're a Knicks fan, at least feel good about this. I don't feel great because Mitchell Robinson's not on the team and they're going to miss him. Getting these guys back is big.

[Michael Rosenberg]

It's so big that Bobby Marks commented on it on the Zach Lowe show. Nick's front office used voodoo powers to re sign everyone.

[Bobby Marks]

I don't know what type of voodoo power Leon Rose and Brock Ahler and the group there does with some of their players. And probably it's just that they love playing in New York and that there's a comfort level and that the teammates really love each other. But the three guys, Jose Alvarado, Langeshami and Mohamed Diawar, their contracts. There is a trend here with the Knicks as far as the back end of some of these contracts, either partial or non guarantee, but also fitting. I mean, basically they signed three guys for, I don't know, $13 million.

[Alan Hahn]

What he's talking about also is the fact that a lot of these players took less than potential market value to go. You know how many guys have a Big Year and then there's a bad team that has cap space, but that bad team doesn't want him bad anymore. So they'll throw money at you to go there, but you're like, I don't want to go there because they're not gonna be good. But you take the money. These guys didn't do that. They were like, I'd rather stay here. So that's what they end up doing. And the way the Knicks are also able to work it out is, as Bobby pointed out, these aren't fully guaranteed. Like if they're a three year deal, it's not fully guaranteed. They can get out of this in two years or one year, whatever it is. And so it really is special. And the one thing I don't think we talk about enough, how many times in New York with A lot of our teams. How many times have we said brilliant front office? I mean, we're killing David Stearns, right, For what he's done with the Mets.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Yeah, and Brian Cassman hears it all the time.

[Alan Hahn]

Case, they don't even have Cap to deal with.

[Peter Vescey]

Shane does.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, look at the football. Everybody wanted Joe Shane out, right? The Joe Douglas got killed. He got run out of town. Like the team Chris Drury, what he's going through with the Rangers right now. The Devil's just hired a new general manager.

[Michael Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

Like you're trying to. What you want. I think the most important thing any franchise can have is a really smart, sharp, shrewd front office that just knows how to make it all work. And it's amazing to think a Nick franchise that at one point over the years just couldn't get out of their own way, made terrible mistakes as a front office, is being run by some elite people. This is an elite front office in the NBA. And they were able to do something like this, keep a championship roster together despite having several players who are ready to step into the unrestricted free agency market. It says a lot. There's a lot of reason to feel like you could go into this season and say, look at the east and tell me why the Knicks can't get.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Get back again. And this is why, like everybody called, you know, especially me and Alan hears it too. You know, shills for msg. Oh, well, you do Ranger games. That's why you defend Dolan. I. It's not defending the ownership. It's just trying to acknowledge to people that it's all just about hiring the right guy. Dolan went from a pariah. Nobody wants to play for the Knicks. Knicks will never win as long as Dolan's the owner hires Leon Rose and now they're winning a championship. And then Allen just described it so eloquently. Of the nine professional sports franchise franchises in the Big four in New York, it's the Knicks with a bullet that have the best front office. Think about that even two years ago, to think that that's something that you would say when the Rangers were two wins away from going to the Stanley cup final in 24, that the. The better management at MSG would be the Knicks better than the Yankees, better than the Mets, better than anybody else. Giants, jets, all of them, because you hire the right guy.

[Alan Hahn]

Great, great example too. It's not just throwing a roster together, champion roster, where I'm gonna, I'm gonna like throw the future away totally. Now. They did Move on from picks. They didn't want to make picks because the way it can affect their cap situation. But that's what made the DOR thing so important. They found a 20 year old in the second round last year that nobody really knew about.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And he started to come into his own and he grew a little bit too. And they saw flashes of like, potential. And they said, you know, while we're keeping this older team together, we need this guy. We need to make sure that we develop him because this guy can help us too. Even though he's young. They are trying to develop some pieces as well. Huck party hurt him, leaving her because they were developing him and they thought like they could, they could survive. But he's the one guy that decided to take the money and go somewhere else. He decided not to. But you make less. But he should because of where.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But if you had, if you had

[Peter Vescey]

to pick one between Dor and Huckpur,

[Alan Hahn]

Dor by a mile.

[Peter Vescey]

So this was the one.

[Alan Hahn]

He has three and D potential through the roof. He's. He's almost 610 now. He just keeps growing. He just turned 20 during the season. We saw him lock up some really good players, including Jalen Brown. I watched that game on Super Bowl Sunday. I called the game on ESPN radio nationally and he did a tremendous job defensively on, on Jaylen Brown. There's a lot of potential in that kid. And Mike Brown loves him and he's a sponge too. So he's not somebody that, you know. Is he going to learn? Yeah, he's going to learn. So again, but that's what a good front office does. They recognize how do we keep this team together. They create an environment that veteran players know. All right, I'm going to take less. Oh, and you're not even going to fully guarantee that last year. Yeah, but I really want to be here and you treat me well, so it's okay. Like, I'd rather do that than get three fully guaranteed years in, you know, armpit NBA. And now be there miserable while, you know, the Knicks. I'm watching now, Nick, highlights going. Yeah, I remember there. That was fun, right? And that's kind of what you do off your bench. So look, there's still a lot more work to be done. I still think they need another center, but it is like you heard Bobby and Bobby, a guy who worked in the front office for years in the NBA. Bobby Marks is saying this stuff because he knows how hard it is. It tells you the Knicks front office has put themselves at the Very at the very top in the NBA. So it can be City's really good. San Antonio is really good. Minnesota is really good. But they have. I think they've surpassed Boston because Brad Stevens now can't operate the way he used to so.

[Peter Vescey]

Well, it's not a great moment for Boston either.

[Alan Hahn]

So. It is not.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But again it flips. They're just coming off a championship.

[Peter Vescey]

But yeah I was going to say

[Michael Rosenberg]

now it's a mess you do on a Matt.

[Alan Hahn]

But not what it was changed big time there.

[Rich Eisen]

But.

[Peter Vescey]

But that's why like listen, I'm all for celebrating this moment. Everyone should. I'm not going to pour rain on this water if you will but you know this is the kind of thing we need to look at. Like a pretty nice little window to really have judgment. You know like I couldn't go as far as saying surpassing Boston until you show me several years of it. Although now they're a few years into this.

[Alan Hahn]

It's been pretty office.

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah. They've been.

[Alan Hahn]

This is pretty Boston. Think about it. Boston the last. This is not just a one year thing. Boston for the last two years has dismantled what was the championship team because they couldn't keep everybody together.

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Figure it out.

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah. The dollars didn't make sense.

[Alan Hahn]

The Knicks did not dismantle. They kept it together.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I listen the guys wanted to stay. I don't know that is true how many championships they'll win if they'll win another championship.

[Alan Hahn]

But they're set up now to still try to win another.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But what they've done is they've set themselves up to be in a position to do it and they've completely changed their image from nobody wants to play for Dolan. Knicks aren't cool. Nobody's going to come to the Garden to now becoming a destination. You know how dangerous that is for the rest of the league that New York becomes a destination.

[Peter Vescey]

But just again to play devil's advocate here, do we have proof that that has happened that part of it? Because not like they went out and got and are bringing in all kinds of pieces.

[Michael Rosenberg]

No, they haven't needed them.

[Alan Hahn]

They haven't needed the pieces. And you really can't because you don't have the cap space to go bring in somebody.

[Peter Vescey]

That moment hasn't come up yet.

[Alan Hahn]

I wanted to play there.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But just the fact that LeBron James has the Knicks on the list.

[Alan Hahn]

There you go. That's fair. Rich Paul said that would be the place we'd go.

[Michael Rosenberg]

I believe one of the places.

[Alan Hahn]

No, you know But.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I hear what you're saying, Peter, but because they're so good and they have very little needs, we don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

And they're so freaking smart with some of the stuff they've been doing. But just make sure they save. They saved a couple of bucks here and it saved a couple of bucks there. And that allowed them, like, moving some of the draft picks they did on draft night when they started. It was a shell game of draft picks that night, but they did it with the purpose of knowing that we can't afford to have a pick that's going to cost us guaranteed money, even if it's $2 million, because it's going to take us out of the running to bring back our players.

[Michael Rosenberg]

It's all perception, too, Peter, because we didn't know that the mass of players didn't want to come to New York because of Dolan or because there's. There's too much pressure at the guard. You don't want to go there because the team never won. And once in 73, now they've won. And you're telling me you're a player watching this run and saying, boy, I wouldn't. I wouldn't mind being a part of that.

[Peter Vescey]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

That's true. And then also style of play culture, all those things again. Why are you. Why are you, as a Mets fan, just so mad at the Mets? Of course the losing bothers you, but you also know the clubhouse ain't right. And this is not really, like, they don't look right. And when the Mets are the Mets, it's about pitching. And this guy doesn't believe in pitching. There's a lot of things about the Mets that just bother you because of the way they're built, right? Yeah, of course it bothers me the

[Michael Rosenberg]

way they're built, but at least. But the Yankees, it bothers you the way they're built, but at least they potentially go to the playoffs every year. So that's always going to be a destination. This year's team, the destination for these players is all about, do I have a chance to win.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Or am I landlocked somewhere where they're never going to do it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Right.

[Michael Rosenberg]

And when there's a team like the Knicks, who hadn't won since 1973, the vibe is the Met since 86 or the, you know, jets since 68. Like, why would I want to go there? They never win.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it didn't, actually. You know what, to be fair, the jets kind of were doing that when they got Aaron. Aaron and the lonely Lombardi and all that stuff. But it was the roster, too. He looked at the roster.

[Michael Rosenberg]

He looked a good roster. There was two things in play for the Jets. Number one, they had some weapons. They were a team that was willing to give him the keys to the kingdom. That, and there weren't a lot of options for Rogers.

[Alan Hahn]

Fair. But he made it cool, though. No, he wanted to come, right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

And he's gone. Listen, but because why did he make it cool? Because, hey, he's a great quarterback. He's going to throw me the football and we're going to have a chance to do some stuff, you know, but ultimately, when everything's equal, the team that hasn't won in a long time, because I think, listen, these guys want to make their money, but in a cap sport, you're going to make your money. So where am I going to go where I got a chance to win? Especially in the NBA, where these guys, you could be. Quarterback is different than the NFL because quarterback is like every other player in the NBA, where you're judged by your rings. But, you know, you can go and be a wide receiver or defensive player on a team that hasn't won, but they're good and make your money. You could be happy there. But in the NBA, if you're a great player, you want to go someplace we can wear it when?

[Rich Eisen]

A ring.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Because are you ever going to be appreciated if you don't win and you

[Alan Hahn]

don't want to go there? If. If you're like, if there's bare bones. And that was the KD thing in 2019. Everybody I've talked to said the KD was dead set on being a Knick. You want to play at the Garden. Dead set on it. The injury happened. A lot of uncertainty, but he still thought in the end. And the Knicks thought this, too. The Knicks really thought he was coming. All indications were he was coming. His own manager has said that. Rich Kleiman, he has said it, too. He was. He thought the Knicks were the destination. And then Kyrie Irving said, come with me to Brooklyn. It'll be better there. And KD was not going to come to the Knicks by himself. He was afraid of the idea of, I'm going to go there and they're just going to. And we don't win, I'm going to get eviscerated. And that was the part of it. So now that you take away that part, because now there's the evidence of winning, it's not, as, you know, it used to be.

[Michael Rosenberg]

I'm not even talking about the big names like KD and LeBron because they're looking at teams like vessels. There wasn't anything attractive necessarily about Brooklyn other than the fact that they could

[Alan Hahn]

go there and they could take over.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Same thing with LeBron going to Miami. South Beach, I get it. It was Pat Riley. But Dwayne Wade. There was Dwyane Wade. Dwayne Wade wasn't there. Miami wouldn't be nearly as attractive. Still the same palm trees, still Pat Riley throwing the rings on the table. But if there's no Dwyane Wade, he's not going. Yeah, but it felt like they're vessels when I'm just talking about everyday players to say, I want to go play for the Knicks, I want to be a part of that because they seem to be well run, their fan base is passionate. I want to go there. I want to be there. And I think that was important. There's no more of this. Oh, they're just not cool.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

You know, it's not cool.

[Alan Hahn]

Losing, yes.

[Michael Rosenberg]

You know, it's cool.

[Alan Hahn]

Winning, yes, very much so.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Let's go to spike in St. Pete. You're on. Don Hanna, Rosenberg. What's up, buddy?

[Caller - George]

Oh, terrific talk. I love it. I was flattered. Today. Real quickly, I'm in touch with Peter Vesey through the Dogs. You know, he's a big dog guy and

[Michael Rosenberg]

that is a job.

[Caller - Brad]

Go ahead.

[Caller - George]

Another one, too. 84 years old and he. She calls me, she's home, feeling all that stuff. We've been friends a long time, and the new iteration of New York City baseball, Basketball hall of Fame, he's involved with that. And he said to me, by the way, your call on the Knicks was as good as it gets. I told him that I thought that Cleveland could beat Detroit and Detroit's a one man band. I don't mean that disparagingly. It just. Everything fell into place and Brunson proved to be on an equal par in terms of performance with only one other guy who ever did it. And I got to tell you again, Alan, your work, I just hope you catch up with your rest. It's been a wonderful year, all you guys. Peter, I got to come at you a little bit with this. It's all comp.

[Caller - Montclair]

Okay.

[Caller - George]

I watched your latest, you know, your new podcast, it's terrific. But let me ask you, how do you feel as a Celtic fan? I watched Brad Stevens and he got up there in his preppy outfit and he said, nothing.

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah, I don't feel. I don't feel great. I Don't. I don't. I'm not into this. I don't. As I said the other day, I don't think the Celtics are going to be in the toilet. I just think that the way this was handled to me, I'm very confused by. I just don't understand.

[Caller - George]

It's a day in the age move. It's unbelievable.

[Michael Rosenberg]

That's disrespectful.

[Alan Hahn]

It feels like more of a financial move than a personnel move. And the Celtics never used to operate like that.

[Peter Vescey]

It's just. You couldn't make a financial move and not send them to your division rival.

[Alan Hahn]

That's what I mean.

[Peter Vescey]

There was no. There was no.

[Michael Rosenberg]

That's why they got such a Hawk, I think ownership. You know what's an interesting Golden State, There was some random.

[Peter Vescey]

Elsewhere.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey. Like Minnesota, Tim Connolly. They're giving me. They're just offering two. First just do that. And it's doing the same deal, but it shows you. We get him out of the conference.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Is. Are some owners starting to get really scared about where this money's going?

[Alan Hahn]

The second apron and the triple tax.

[Michael Rosenberg]

And come on, guys, when we're seeing guys, we're seeing players making 60, 70 million dollars at the back end of these deals and. And the back end of the deals when they're not nearly as good as they were when they first signed these contracts and where the economy is and the price of the tickets and the television, it's all great right now, but are they. When you're. When you're a billionaire, you're thinking about the future and you're looking at it as like, I don't want to be losing money here.

[Alan Hahn]

Don. Think about it. If I told you that in New York now, that if you make over a certain amount of money, you're going to be taxed two times the amount you'd get. And if you go over this next one three times. Three times tax.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Yeah. And you know what?

[Alan Hahn]

You take raises anymore, would you say, yeah.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Or. Not only that, maybe I'll take the raises and. But I'm also saying, hey, I've got to be careful of what I'm spending my money on, because that house that I bought. Now if I'm going to get taxed that much, I'm not sure I'm going

[Alan Hahn]

to be able to afford that three times.

[Michael Rosenberg]

So Boston, you know, they're probably. And listen, they all. Especially Boston, right. They've got people to answer to. They're like, wait a minute. All this money I want. I want a return on My investment here, how am I going to get

[Charles Barkley]

a return on investment?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Because the bands only think about wins.

[Alan Hahn]

Remember, they're now owned. They're not owned by owners anymore. They're owned by. Yeah, like, but even private equity. But it's close.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But even then, it's like, you've got to answer to these people that are like, all right, listen, I love winning a championship now and then, but I also want to make my money. And I'm not willing to sacrifice my money for a run at a chip that you might, you might or might not get.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

And so if I'm paying a guy $70 million and he's not playing well, now you're dipping into my pocket, now I'm starting to lose money. The fans don't want to hear that because these are billionaires complaining about losing money. But are they getting a return on their investment when you're paying players that much money?

[Alan Hahn]

No. And again, all right, so we have a successful season. We win 58 games. We get to the second round or third round of the playoffs, but we don't win a championship. But because we're in the second apron, my return on investment is very minimal. But if I cut back some salary, have a team that maybe makes the play in, if I get a first round, okay, but my return on investment now is skyrocketed.

[Rich Eisen]

What do you.

[Alan Hahn]

Again, not as a fan, but as a business owner, which one do you like better?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Right? And what do you think's happening right now with the New York Yankees? Like, that's what we keep talking about. They want to win, but the fans are all like, oh, who cares if you make any money? We want to see a championship. I haven't won a World series since 2009. Meanwhile, people invested in the Yankees are like, I want to win a championship, too, but if we keep going to the playoffs and I keep filling my wallet, let's do that. So you want me to take money out of my wallet to go pay for another player? So we have a Dodger payroll and we might win, but now I make less money. I'm not interested in that. And the fans don't want to hear that, because the fans, they don't care if these billionaires make money or not.

[Alan Hahn]

That's the problem.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But the billionaires do, and I can't blame them. I mean, it's fun to play with the toy and lose money every once in a while. Like, listen, Steve Cohen has lost a lot of money with the Mets, and nobody's going to feel bad because he's worth $23 billion.

[Charles Barkley]

Right.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But at some point he's going to be like, well, why am I paying? Why do I have the second highest payroll in baseball? We're losing now. I'm not going to spend that much money. Why am I setting fire to money here?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, it's why he's building a casino.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Well, exactly. But, but fans, again, don't want to hear that. But guess what? You know, when baseball's going through their lockout, this is what they're, this is what they're discussing.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's right.

[Michael Rosenberg]

This is what they're going to be going through. So nobody feels bad for them, but at the end of the day, they want to be able to make money. They want to return on their investment. And can you get a return on your investment when you're spending that much money on players and not guaranteed to win anything at the end of the day? And even if you do, can you blame them if they say, yeah, I'd like to win, but if I'm not going to, if I'm going to lose money winning and, but it's two different winning.

[Alan Hahn]

It's winning a league, which is cute, or am I winning it in the, in our investment?

[Michael Rosenberg]

They didn't invest in these, in these teams to get a ring. They invest in these teams that they can get a return on their investment.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Vescey]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get Podcasts

[Alan Hahn]

Alan Hahn here to tell you about Ring's End. I've been telling you about the project in my house going very well and Ring's End has been a big part of it. Ring's End provided a French door that we picked out and absolutely loved and my contractor worked with them and installed it and it's the centerpiece of really this project that we are doing. So this is why you should talk to your contractor about working with Ring's End too. They have a extensive inventory of built to last high end product lines that contractors like my guy Michael weldon rely on. They do it right, they don't do it over. Ring's end has showrooms with products you can touch and feel and try so you know exactly what you're getting. They have eight full service lumber yards in Connecticut and Westchester county. They have 12 freestanding paint centers as well. Rings and his family owned and operated since 1902. So that's 124 years in business with deep northeast roots supporting local builders communities. And if you can't make it to a store, you can always shop [e-mail] that's ringsend.com.

[Michael Rosenberg]

all right, let's hear from you, 1-800-919-3776. George is in Elizabeth. You're on Donja road. What's up, George?

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

Hey, you guys, how you doing, man? First of all, man, huge fan. Listen to you every day while I do a dash, man. And Peter, I've been listening to you a lot longer than that because I'm a huge hip hop fan.

[Peter Vescey]

Thank you, man.

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

So I go way back, my men. But listen, I want to say this, man, you know, boohoo for the billionaires who will never see a day of being broke ever in life. You know, when winning is what makes your franchises money, at the end of the day, if you look at the golden state warriors, hell, the New England Patriots, it was the winning. It was the fans that came to see them win that turned those franchises around. But not only that, when you say a billionaire is complaining about losing money or they worry, it's the fans that are subsidizing the building of these new stadiums all over the country too. It's not like they're spending, you know, their little bit of money or whatever it is on these stadiums, their own money, and they might actually be on the street. You understand? That's not the case. So the very least they could do is put out a winning product, bro. Try their very best to hire the best people to put out and not sacrifice any seasons, man, for some money ever.

[Michael Rosenberg]

I think they're. Gonna. They're gonna. If you're talking about a possible lockout, they're gonna do what's right for their bottom line. Because you're a fan, George, and I get it. But a lot of these franchises, the Jacksonville Jaguars are worth 6, $7 billion. Never won a damn thing.

[Caller - Brad]

All right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

They get a return on their investment when they sell, but in the meantime,

[Alan Hahn]

you know, it's the valuation.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Is it so wrong for them to try to make some money, you know? And again, I'm not telling you to feel bad for them. I'm not.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm trying to explain what I'm trying

[Michael Rosenberg]

to explain to you. They got into this because they have a business, and the fans want them to spend as much money as humanly possible so they can win. And they do that for the most part. And then eventually they get to the point, like, dude, I don't know how sustainable this is, that I'm paying some guy at the back end of his contract who's 30, you know, 4 years old, $70 million. I don't know if this is sustainable anymore. I don't know if I want to be in this business that's losing money now. Not everybody's losing money. Yankees aren't losing money. But they've got people that. Hal Steinbrenner's got investors. And every time they have a payroll that's high, you know, George Howell pays for that. Their investors pay, and then they get something back in the return. But at some point, they're gonna be like, hey, I'm not getting as much money back as I thought because you're. You got the second highest payroll in baseball.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not about nobody's losing money, third highest pay. Nobody's losing money.

[Peter Vescey]

That's for sure.

[Alan Hahn]

It's, can we make more money?

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I think in Boston's case, and

[Alan Hahn]

that's why the callers make more money but still be competitive, because as George said, he's right. You can't have a losing team that hurts you. But I can put together a team, and the Yankees have proven that the last 15, 20 years, is I can put together a team that every year wins and I can still make money, right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I think what's happening, but I

[Alan Hahn]

might not overdo it to win a

[Michael Rosenberg]

champion or what Dolan's talk about the second apron. I don't want to pay the penalties for going over the second apron.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not just the money, though. That's different. He doesn't want to get landlocked draft picks and everything. When he heard about all the things you. It's not about the money with him. He's writing checks for years, right? It was about the restrictions it put on your franchise, so I can't touch my roster. And he said, no, I'm not playing that game.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I think it's happening in Boston. What's happening to some of these owners. They're thinking. They're thinking, how much am I going to have to Pay Brown if we keep them and 70 million and it's sustainable to pay a player $70 million, two players each.

[Peter Vescey]

But again, the, the. To the caller's point, though, as a fan, you don't want to hear it. You don't care what's sustainable, what's sustainable in terms of what. Meaning you won't be. If the result is you're not able to put a competitive product on the court because the money's being too drained by two players. I think a fan could understand that. Meaning we can't. Based on the way the rules work, we're not able to do more. But if it's simply we don't want to do more because we want shareholders to make more money than they made last year and the year before that, not only should, not only do fans not understand, they should understand it or

[Michael Rosenberg]

care about it, but in the case of what's happening with the pending lockout, you never feel bad for the Yankees, never feel bad for the Dodgers, never feel bad for the Mets. But are there franchises they're saying, when the CBA is up in baseball, are there some franchise that say, if we don't change the system, I am going to be in trouble financially because if I'm Kansas City and I want to compete with the Dodgers, yeah, I could figure out an analytic way to be able to be competitive with a team that's paying $200 million more to their players than I am. But if I'm going to have to pay extra money to get free agents to be competitive, there may be some owners that are like, no, now, now you're asking me to lose money. Now you're telling me I've got to take a loss. My shareholders have to take a loss for me to be competitive. Who the hell wants to be in a system like that? Imagine a restaurant saying, in order for me to be able to have my, my, my restaurant full and in order for me to be able to get, you know, five stars on Zagat, I've got to lose money. Guess what? He's going to go out of business eventually, right? He wants to be.

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

This does.

[Michael Rosenberg]

As much as you don't feel bad for them, you can also understand, like, hey, I want to still be able to make a dollar and a cent in this business and not go in the hole. And some franchises with a non cap, like baseball, are there some franchises who are going to say, I can't do

[Alan Hahn]

this, Especially if you get a cap and you put a floor in. And some franchises are like, I can't do that.

[Michael Rosenberg]

That's the other end of it too.

[Alan Hahn]

But that's the part.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Be careful what you wish for. You put in a cap. Guess what? Some of these franchises that are getting by with a $75 million payroll are going to have to add 25, $30 million to the payroll to get to the floor. They might not like that either.

[Alan Hahn]

No. And if you're the NBA, like to me, if I'm an NBA fan and I hear what they're saying in Boston and I hear even what James Dolan is saying as a fan, I said, then why the hell did you agree to this CBA that has a second apron on it, that has all these restrictive policies? Like, why would you agree to that? Why would you want to implement that?

[Michael Rosenberg]

I don't think.

[Alan Hahn]

And that's why you tell again, Milwaukee didn't want to do it. Like, there were a lot of teams that just don't want to go into those extra tax numbers and they decide to dismantle their team. And that's why then you say, well, then fix the system.

[Michael Rosenberg]

That's why Steinbrenner probably wants there to be a cap because he's like, I'm tired of subsidizing all these small market teams, paying penalties for signing international players, losing draft picks because of the. I don't want to do that anymore.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep. It's bad business.

[Michael Rosenberg]

It's so it's going to be a very, very interesting winter, people.

[Charles Barkley]

Yep.

[Michael Rosenberg]

When the season is over come December, which is why expires the lockouts on and we'll know when it's lifted.

[Alan Hahn]

Who now, which is why don't. As a Yankees fan, I don't know what's coming after this year. I don't know if we're going to miss a World Series. I think we're going to miss sometime next year.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

But there will be a new, a new salary structure in Major League Baseball. We know somehow, some way. So if that's the case, if I'm the Yankees, if I'm Brian Cashman and the road is wide open to get to a World Series, the American League is not very good. You've talked about it chapter and verse, about the teams that have how many teams have losing records versus teams with winning records. Right. So if that's the case, wouldn't this be the year for the Yankees to say at the trade deadline, we got to go all in.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Peter Vescey]

By the way, now Mbappe got France on the board. Now Dembele scores a second goal. It's two nothing in the 74th minute. France looking to pass none. Morocco in this quarterfinal.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Let's come It's.

[Rich Eisen]

That's what you expect?

[Peter Vescey]

No, but I wanted to. I threw more money on Morocco than I did on Mbappe.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Right now that looks like a mistake.

[Alan Hahn]

Not a good return on investment.

[Peter Vescey]

No, I just felt like there was a chance with all the. We'd seen so many near upsets. I just thought one of these is going to hit. Maybe it's Morocco today wasn't. No.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, not yet.

[Peter Vescey]

Not so far.

[Alan Hahn]

We've dreaded to nothing lead.

[Peter Vescey]

The dreaded to nothing lead which is apparently gets.

[Alan Hahn]

But Don, what I said there Yankees. You know, Anthony, wouldn't this then if we don't know what's next, shouldn't the Yankee way right now the mentality be listen, we've got three aces that we can trust in the playoffs. When we get judge back as you will, if there's a weakness, it's the bottom of the order and it's certainly the lack of a right handed catcher. Would you be so worried about next year and the year after or would you just say, nah, we got to go get some players because the American League, the road is paved to the World Series. They're waiting for a team to take it. Wouldn't this be the year to kind of push the chips and then on the other side of the cap. No, they're probably going to be an amnesty. There's probably going to be some things and then there'll be a cap and we'll, we'll deal with that life. But while we still can swing it a little bit, shouldn't we swing it

[Caller - Brad]

right now with that logic, you could also see them going after a rental in school because they probably wouldn't sign him no matter what.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, that's not crazy. But although what Scuba might cost.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Well, when you have Brian Cashman saying they need things and prospects, I mean when you have a wide open American League, if they don't go to the World Series this year, would this finally be the year that you would see somebody get fired?

[Alan Hahn]

No, but I feel like the mentality of the organization should be an all in mentality. When you look at the landscape of the American League.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Well, especially if it's somebody that's a free agent at the end of the year, you don't have to worry about whatever the policy is.

[Alan Hahn]

As long as I don't have to give up a lot in prospects, which of course you know other teams are going to try to hold you up. But somehow, some way I think there shouldn't be any hesitation to make a move because of the cost. Go for it.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Brad and Montclair, you're on. Don, Hanna, Rosenberg, what's going on?

[Caller - Montclair]

Hey, what's going on, guys? Hey. I just wanted to jump in on the salary and the revenue discussion. So I just think, Don, like, I think you're misframing the situation a little bit. I don't disagree that owners don't want to spend any more money than they have to and they don't want to pay labor. The players, what they're worth essentially on the market. But as you said, it's the values of the franchises is the whole point. I mean, that's the whole point. I mean, the price of the franchises goes up. I mean, it probably gone up what, 50 fold over the last 20 years. And these guys can bar, these guys can borrow against it. They can take on partners, they can sell equity. Like, players are locked out of all of that. They don't get any of that upside. All they get is the operating revenue. So I mean to say that like, you know, and some owners have it easier than others, but I mean, there should be no sympathy for an owner that does not spend to keep up with the value of their franchise. If they can't afford to operate the team, they shouldn't be. They should know the team, they should sell it because there's plenty of ways for them to raise revenue other than, you know, just the operating day to day revenues just by using the asset prices. But it is interesting, right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I don't want to. But you can understand an owner saying, listen, I don't want to have to order. For me to be able to stay solvent with this franchise. I've got to, you know, borrow against it. And then, yeah, when I sell it, I'll make a profit. What if I don't want to sell it? I want to leave it to my son. I want him to run it. I want this to be generational. Like the Steinbrenners have no intent. Like, the Yankees could probably go for $16 billion, which makes Hal Steinbrenner worth $16 billion. But if he doesn't sell it and doesn't plan on selling it, well, then that's just in theory, right?

[Caller - Montclair]

It's like, but that's, but that's, that's, that's every asset. That's every asset. I mean, you, you can borrow against it. You can sell it, you can sell shares, but mostly you can borrow against it. People do it with stocks, they do it with real Estate. They do it with these franchises. You can borrow against it, and guess what they do with the interest and on those payments? They write it off. They. It. Like you talk about, well, they don't want to take losses. They write off those losses. They don't pay taxes on those losses.

[Michael Rosenberg]

No, Understood.

[Caller - Montclair]

The value of the franchises is everything, right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

But the first people that are gonna complain are the fans. When all of a sudden some of these franchises go, well, listen, I don't want to take a hit, so I'm gonna raise ticket prices, and I'm gonna make jerseys more expensive. And it just becomes like a vicious cycle. I'm not asking you to feel bad for them, but not everybody's. Steve Cohen, who's sitting on $23 billion. Hal Steinbrenner's wealth is in the Yankees. Yes, he can borrow against that. He can take loan. He can use that as collateral because. But it's. I think he still wants to be able to say. And he's got shareholders who aren't billionaires who are saying, hey, I want a return on my investment, too.

[Alan Hahn]

That's what it is. And we're forgetting the owners. It's the investors, right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

They've got to answer to those people.

[Alan Hahn]

And they're. They're the ones that are getting louder and louder because they're getting a bigger piece of the pie as they go along.

[Michael Rosenberg]

And when Hal says, I want to raise the payroll, let's say Hal says, listen, we lost again. I want to spend as much money as the Dodgers spent. He's got to run that past his shareholders. And they might say, no, you're not. No, you're not.

[Alan Hahn]

John Henry in Boston, the same thing's happening there with the Red Sox. The Red Sox are making financial decisions as well. Why? Because that group, Fenway Sports, whatever it's called, they own a lot of teams.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Well, they own. They got a car. They got a soccer team, they've got a car in.

[Alan Hahn]

And so it's stock car in nascar. It's no longer just, I just like. At least Steinbrenner owns one team. He owns one thing.

[Michael Rosenberg]

It's a family business.

[Alan Hahn]

It's. You know, Dolan owns one thing, the Garden and its teams, right? That's it. He doesn't have any other interests. He doesn't. He's not part of a group that owns a bunch of stuff. You know the team that bought the Commanders? Peter?

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah, the group. Devils, Sixers.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, Harris Blitz.

[Peter Vescey]

Harris Group.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, they own a lot of stuff. And so for them, that's It's a group of people and everything's about the bottom line and the numbers and what

[Michael Rosenberg]

the owners are saying is, is that can we just all kind of be even where we're spending the same amount of money not having the Dodgers having a $400 million payroll and the Marlins having a $90 million payroll?

[Alan Hahn]

I still say the Yankees right now should look at this trade deadline differently than any other because of the uncertainty on the other side. And the path is open for you, and it might not be as easy to move money around now. I mean, this might be the last time it's easy to move money around. Might be a lot harder to do it on the other side.

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[Rich Eisen]

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Vescey]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Michael Rosenberg]

A lot of people on hold if you want to join in on the party. Ty Butler it's going to be coming up at 7 o' clock, but not before ENN at 6. Big Ann like you dream.

[Peter Vescey]

They say there's no ENN like one as a Morocco France game is heading down to the final moment is winding down.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Yeah, this is quite a comeback.

[Peter Vescey]

This would be something now if they could somehow put something together. There is some more. There's some more spice to talk about though. By the way, from the fallout of Team usa, there's been some spicy fun

[Alan Hahn]

stuff all in enn. Stay tuned.

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah, people getting after other people.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Good.

[Peter Vescey]

We love that there's things to talk about.

[Alan Hahn]

I think I mentioned that the Islanders did this content. I saw John Ledecky today at Bruce Beck's great media camp for kids.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Like it's all.

[Alan Hahn]

And John Ledecky is one of the owners of the Islanders. They. They did. They're doing a contest have Fans design the third jersey. It's never happened before. 30,000 entries so far. 30,000.

[Peter Vescey]

Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

Now you got to pick one out of them. It's not gonna be easy.

[Michael Rosenberg]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

Now I'm sure a lot of them are dumb. The devil's done suggested one.

[Bobby Marks]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

Off their social media feed, they want

[Michael Rosenberg]

to bring the fish sticks back with

[Alan Hahn]

the caption is do it cowards. And it is. It's. It's really good trolling. It is basically an Islanders jersey, but instead of the logo, it has Gordon's fish sticks. And if you're a Ranger fan, you could probably like that too. But I think this is look, it's interesting. You know why? Because a lot of look, third jerseys are a thing. As much as some people want to hate them, they are a thing. Fans like them.

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

Yeah.

[Peter Vescey]

If they're good, they're good.

[Alan Hahn]

And you got to find a good one. But the point is, is you probably go with what is the majority of people asking for. Then you figure some variation of it will be accepted rather than hey, let's do this fisherman guy that nobody relates to and put that on a jersey. Slap it on there.

[Caller - Brad]

Well, he is still an option, Alan.

[Alan Hahn]

Then a police. No, all they know.

[Caller - Brad]

They give you a base of logos

[Alan Hahn]

and I know they do.

[Caller - Brad]

Yeah. So the fisherman, Gordon's there.

[Alan Hahn]

I know. I told John with his little hat. I told John, if we go. If we go back to that, he might lose me.

[Caller - Brad]

You could take the Liberty if you want. You could have it. I saw somebody made that one, the Liberty jersey. You take it.

[Alan Hahn]

I think a lighthouse makes sense, doesn't it?

[Caller - Brad]

That is an option. I think there is a logo of a light.

[Michael Rosenberg]

I think if you're doing.

[Alan Hahn]

I showed you guys the one I like, right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Yeah, it's got it. You got to have a lighthouse.

[Alan Hahn]

No, the lighthouse that represents Long island more than anything. You should put one more than a fisherman.

[Caller - Brad]

Or at least Zach should put.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, they already stole my idea from 2000.

[Michael Rosenberg]

What was that?

[Alan Hahn]

When they went to the black, which was my original design with Craig Pinto.

[Caller - Brad]

That one's there, too.

[Alan Hahn]

They stole that from us.

[Caller - Brad]

It's a stick. The Y, though, right?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Look at you.

[Caller - Brad]

Yeah, they have that still.

[Alan Hahn]

They have that logo there, but still. It's pretty cool. But I love what the Devils did, though. That's fun. And that's the way it's supposed to be. The Devils are supposed to be. And the Rangers and the other. They're all supposed to be rivals taking shots at each other.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But that's funny.

[Alan Hahn]

It's great.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I. I see somebody submitted just like a picture of Lou lamarolo and then on the back. It's the back of his head. People are going to have some fun with it. Well, of course, I just. As much as I appreciated the ny. The black jerseys that they wore at Barkley Center, I got it because it's. It was the Nets and the Nets had black jerseys and all that, but the Islanders jersey is just. It's such a throwback. I love it with the. With the outline of the island and the stick for the. In the Y. I understand you want to have a third jersey, but I don't like when you completely stray away from what you are. And I thought going to that black jersey did that. I thought. As much as people loved the Devil's black jerseys, which they retired at the end of last year. Jersey jersey. Because they had fun with it. Hat, hat, puck, pug.

[Alan Hahn]

I was brilliant.

[Michael Rosenberg]

I had the last game that they wore. They gave me a pin and it said pin. And I put it on and I wore it for the game. It was cute. But again, everybody wanting to go. Black is not. I know. Black is in their colors now. I don't mind when they throw back wearing the Colorado Rockies colors, but it's still the devil's ny. Like, that's fun, too. But they want to still be able

[Alan Hahn]

to put the green from the 80s. The green in it.

[Michael Rosenberg]

They have worn. They didn't worn this past year, but, you know, I like that green pants.

[Alan Hahn]

Wasn't it green pants?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Caller - George]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I hope whatever third jersey they do just honors Long island and honors.

[Alan Hahn]

I think the Lighthouse is the way to go. The variation of the lighthouse makes sense. And that fisherman to the moon.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Well, it's interesting with the fisherman, because I do know a lot of people of a certain age that love that jersey just because it takes them back to when they were a kid and when they wore them and they were terrible.

[Alan Hahn]

They never won, and they had an owner that was in jail.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Same reason. Why?

[Alan Hahn]

Nostalgic for what?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Don Johnson fell in love with the sport. See, that's what frustrates me about sports now. It's all about the winning. But a lot of us fell in love with team.

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

Winning's big.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Wait a minute.

[Alan Hahn]

Winning is very nostalgic.

[Charles Barkley]

It's big.

[Peter Vescey]

It's big.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But I fell in love with the Mets when they were lousy. I get nostalgia. Guess what?

[Peter Vescey]

And they loved it so much, they

[Michael Rosenberg]

hung on this whole time. And I fell in love with the Devils when they were lousy. First game I ever went to, they lost to the Islanders. Nothing off of Claude Loisel's head into the net.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, poor Claude.

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

I like that.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But if that's when you fell in love with the team, you're going to be nostalgic about that team. So even though those Zigmund Palfi Islander teams weren't very good, but if that's when you fell in love with hockey, it probably takes you back to that time, and that's probably why you like them. There wasn't anything that. There's no redeeming features to that.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, I was there at the press conference when they bailed the load.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Was there a gasp? What happened? Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

Audible. It looked like Stan Fischler behind the scenes. They asked me, what did you think? And I said, these are terrible. It's a joke, right? I was an intern. I didn't last long.

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

Aw.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But do you understand what I'm saying, Peter?

[Peter Vescey]

Of course. We had this whole conversation around when the Giants took the stupid jerseys that were to celebrate a time that not one soul really remembers.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, that.

[Peter Vescey]

Yeah, we were like, why is this the year? Why don't we celebrate the 80s and 90 when they won a Super Bowl? I agree. Was it.

[Michael Rosenberg]

I want to be able to give the guy credit, but I want to give the right handle. Was it the blue, like the vcr? He throws old clips up.

[Caller - Brad]

Big blue vcr.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Big blue vcr.

[Alan Hahn]

There's a big blue vcr.

[Michael Rosenberg]

It's really cool. And he's got a clip up there of a Monday night game that the Giants played the Eagles in 1970. The Eagles had white helmets with the green wing. Awesome.

[Alan Hahn]

There it is.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But there are times where. Where he'll send out a video from like 1980, team was terrible. They had no stars. And I'm. I'm captivated by it because it takes me back to 12 year old Don Legreco with my dad watching those games. Like it's the same thing. A song you hated in the 80s, you listen to it now and you're like, it's nostalgic. Cause it takes you back to that time when you first heard it. I get so I think the people that like the fish stick jerseys are people that fell in love with the Islanders at that time. You fell in love with the Islanders when they were winning cups and everything.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that was a good time.

[Michael Rosenberg]

That was a good time.

[Peter Vescey]

That's fun too. It's a different thing, you know what was the first.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Where were the Redskins when you first fell in love with them? So you were born in 79? No, no, no.

[Peter Vescey]

Completely. They were completely great.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Yeah. That's a bad example.

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

Yeah.

[Peter Vescey]

My first season being truly passionate about them. They won the Super.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Every team that I love, they hadn't

[Peter Vescey]

won yet that I was in there.

[Michael Rosenberg]

But they were good. They were good. Every team that I rooted for growing up, Devils, Giants, Mets, when I was a kid were terrible. I fell in love with those teams and those sports while they were goddamned. But I still reminisce about those times.

[Caller - George (hip hop fan)]

Right.

[Peter Vescey]

Was that why there may be. Could you argue that you are some. Some of the fans that you talk about who were in love with their own sadness.

[Michael Rosenberg]

I just didn't know any better. Like I wanted to win, but I also appreciated like you got to realize something. So I grew up appreciating when they finally did win because what just wasn't on my radar. I didn't root for the Giants because, oh, they might win a Super Bowl. I rooted for the Giants because I loved football and I love the Giants. My dad loved the Giants.

[Alan Hahn]

Do you hate the Mets? Black jersey.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Hey, Despise.

[Caller - Brad]

It.

[Alan Hahn]

Why?

[Peter Vescey]

I can't believe you're asking that.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I'm doing this for a reason.

[Peter Vescey]

No, we got to talk. In the end, this is.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, my God. I didn't see the time.

[Peter Vescey]

It's.

[Michael Rosenberg]

It's all right.

[Alan Hahn]

We're talking about next on the other side of E M. We're gonna get back.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Alan Han is amazing at what he does. He's terrific with the Knicks. He's an awesome writer. He's a stud. Can't tell time.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Vescey]

I don't want to know how the

[Alan Hahn]

sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

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Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea. For commercial Give it a [e-mail] Switch

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