Hour 3: Daboll's Future

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 3: Daboll's Future

Date: October 20, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Main Theme: An in-depth exploration of the New York Giants' recent meltdown, the future of head coach Brian Daboll and GM Joe Schoen, and the growing hope surrounding the team's rookie quarterback. Listeners are invited to unpack the painful loss, coaching decisions, and broader ramifications for the Giants' future.

---

Episode Overview

Hour 3 is dedicated to the fallout from the Giants’ catastrophic fourth-quarter collapse against Denver, focusing on whether the disaster will finally prompt ownership to move on from the current coaching regime. The hosts juxtapose frustration over the coaching with optimism about the young quarterback, debate the value of wins vs. development, and take passionate caller reactions to the defeat and franchise direction.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Giants’ Unprecedented Collapse & Coaching Futures

• Don La Greca opens by asserting that the Giants' collapse—allowing 33 points in the fourth quarter—should be enough to force ownership to reconsider Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen’s futures:

  • "Maybe this finally is the last straw for John Mara and he will find a new coaching staff at the end of the season… You can't win without good coaching." (00:47)
  • References how repeated regime changes can harm a young quarterback’s development but insists bad coaching must be addressed.

• Peter Rosenberg argues the silver lining is that the team appears to have found a legit franchise quarterback, even if he's making rookie mistakes:

  • "He's giving you reason to believe that this guy you can win with for years to come… on the sideline the youngest guy on the field is turning around all his teammates saying 'win the frickin game.'" (02:42)

• Alan Hahn emphasizes that while moxie alone doesn't carry a young QB, this one also has the "gamer" quality:

  • "There’s moxie, but if you don’t have the play to back it up… But yesterday he made a few throws that made me really stop and go, okay... he’s a gamer." (04:04)

2. Balancing Coaching Mistakes vs. Quarterback Development

• The hosts dissect the pivotal interception late in the Denver game:
  • Rosenberg contextualizes the rookie's error, emphasizing the need to accept mistakes as part of the growth process.
  • Don La Greca argues Daboll put the QB in a bad spot on third-and-long, and running would have been the safer call—criticizing "emotional" decision-making over situational awareness:
    • "Daboll should never have put the kid in that situation… The prudent thing would be to run on third down, force Denver to call their timeouts." (04:58)

3. The Dilemma of “Winning Too Much” and the Treadmill Problem

• Rosenberg poses the tough question: if the QB wins enough to keep the team competitive, does the regime survive—possibly prolonging mediocrity?
  • "If you win seven, eight games and you're alive in December with your young quarterback, you're giving Shane and Dable a contract extension… and then you never win because you don’t have the GM and coach to get it done. Where are you then?" (07:26)
• Don suggests that perhaps losing out provides clarity and the chance to reset around a promising QB, making the Giants “an attractive place for people to come.” (09:02)

4. Coaching Market Outlook and Realistic Options

• Discussion of potential replacements: Ben Johnson (Bears), Vrabel (Patriots), Tomlin (Steelers), Harbaugh (Ravens), and the appeal of college "next McVey/Shanahan" types.
• Don insists not to keep a bad regime just because of a lack of better options, while Rosenberg acknowledges the difficulty of finding "the guy":
  • "That doesn't give a reason to stick with what you have when you clearly see it does not work." (11:03)

5. Remaining Schedule and Daboll’s Job Security

• They analyze the remaining ten games and what record would (or wouldn’t) save Daboll:
  • “You win half of them, that gives you seven wins.” (13:31 – Peter)
  • Consensus is that 6–7 wins aren’t enough, especially when losses look like “giveaways” due to coaching. (15:02)
• Don reiterates: "I always say this. I need to see what it looks like... if they all look like the kid saved the day, the coach don’t know what he’s doing—does it really matter what the record is?" (15:09)

6. Ownership, GM Accountability, and Kicking Game Woes

• The kicker fiasco becomes a flashpoint for GM Joe Schoen—how could they go into the game unprepared when Gano’s injury had been an issue for weeks? (17:44–19:20)
• Alan gives a partial defense: “He’s not the only one. Every week in this league there are a few teams where you get to the kicker and they go up, ‘well, let’s hope for the best.’” (19:20)

7. Caller Reactions: Collective Therapy & Second-Guessing

• Robbie from Lenox, MA delivers a fiery historical rant, comparing the loss to legendary football gaffes:
  • "33 points in the fourth quarter is the most embarrassing thing… This is Russell Wilson throwing the ball in the Super Bowl. This is Shanahan blowing three Super Bowls with stupidity. You don't put the ball in the air if you don't have to." (23:52–27:42)
• Robbie pins blame on “three blind mice”—Daboll, Kafka, and Bowen—calls for smarter, situational coaching.
• Don agrees, turning the focus to the modern NFL’s obsession with analytics over “feel for the game.”
• Chris from Barnegat and other callers voice ideas for replacements and lament ownership's alleged frugality (but Don disputes that label).

8. The Larger Coaching Conversation

• The hosts debate Jon Gruden as a hypothetical candidate but ultimately dismiss him as too far removed from modern NFL success (39:24–41:15).
• They list the greatest fourth-quarter collapses in football, placing the Giants’ debacle in context. (42:16–44:13)
• The discussion moves to whether the Jets and Giants should demand proven, experienced head coaches (when there’s no salary cap for coaches) or stick with developmental names.

9. Jets Sidebar

• Brief aside to compare the Giants’ coaching predicament to the Jets and Aaron Glenn, noting historical offensive ineptitude (46:13–48:07).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Don La Greca (00:47):

  • "Maybe this finally is the last straw for John Mara and he will find a new coaching staff at the end of the season…You can't win without good coaching. You can't. I don't care how good your quarterback is. Let's not forget Patrick Mahomes has Andy Reid. That's a big deal."

• Peter Rosenberg (02:42):

  • "I think after four weeks of him starting even with all the mistakes that he has made…. You know you're going to live through it. But what he's giving you is not only a shot of adrenaline…he's giving you reason to believe that this guy you can win with for years to come because of what he's made of."

• Alan Hahn (04:04):

  • "He made a few throws that made me really stop and go, okay. Now I don’t know, it’s way too early to know what level this kid can get to, but he’s a gamer."

• Caller Robbie (26:56):

  • "This is a transition between John McVeigh right in the beginning of George Young and Ray Perkins and then Bill Parcells. If this talent group had anything of a coaching staff, it would be much better…All you have to do is force timeouts. That is football 101. ABC. How could you consider yourself an NFL coach?"

• Don La Greca (31:46):

  • "I’m not interested at that point. Yeah, I’d love to get the first down, but right now my goal is to make them use their timeout. And it becomes a field position game."

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:47-02:42 – Don’s opening on the Giants’ collapse and the possible end of the Daboll/Schoen regime.
• 02:42-04:39 – Rosenberg and Hahn discuss the quarterback’s moxie and potential.
• 04:58-07:24 – Debate over the late-game interception and Daboll’s situational decision-making.
• 09:59-11:03 – Coaching carousel options and the challenge of finding “the guy.”
• 13:31-16:00 – What record (if any) would save the current staff?
• 17:44-19:57 – Discussion on the kicker issue and GM accountability.
• 23:51-27:42 – Robbie’s historical breakdown and coaching rant.
• 32:11-34:20 – Philosophical debate about coaching by perception vs. situation.
• 39:24-41:15 – Jon Gruden as a hypothetical hire.
• 42:16-44:13 – Greatest fourth-quarter collapses in football history.

---

Tone & Language

The hosts are deeply passionate, veering from frustrated exasperation to hopeful optimism. The tone balances hardcore sports talk radio with therapy for exasperated Giants fans. Confrontational, candid, and occasionally cathartic, the conversations are filled with rapid-fire interjections, strong opinions, and sardonic humor.

---

Summary Takeaway

This episode encapsulates the agony of blowing a winnable game, the existential dread of being stuck in mediocrity, and the tantalizing hope that maybe, just maybe, the quarterback is finally for real. The hosts pull no punches on coaching blunders, ponder the landfill of NFL retread coaches, and articulate both the pain and resilience of the New York fanbase. If you want unfiltered, intelligent, and emotionally honest New York sports talk, this is the hour to catch.

Transcript

[Robbie]

The holidays have arrived at the Home.

[Don Hahn]

Depot and we're here to help bring.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The excitement with decor for every part of your home.

[Don Hahn]

Check out our wide assortment of easy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To assemble pre lit trees so you.

[Don Hahn]

Can spend less time setting up and more time celebrating. And bring your holiday spirit outdoors with unique decor like one of our Santa inflatables. Whatever your style, find the right pieces at the right prices this holiday season at the Home Depot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8:80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers 504 in the big city.

[Don Hahn]

Don and Rosenberg with you until 6:30. Then it's Rangers hockey Rangers wild over at Madison Square Garden. Rangers had a big win coming back from 2 nothing down on Saturday so they'll try to see if they can finally score a goal at home. Three straight games, no goals at home. And we do have a big game seven tonight. It'll be over on 1050 and joined in progress here on 880. Blue Jays and the Mariners to decide who's going to take on the Los Angeles Dodgers in the World Series. But football is dominating today guys. And certainly what happened to the Giants. We spent a lot of time in the first couple of hours talking about it and I'm going to try to spin it positive and maybe this finally is the last straw for John Mara and he will find a new coaching staff at the end of the season. You beat Denver, which we all wanted them to do and they certainly deserve to do it for three quarters. To sit there and see 0033 in the fourth quarter. Never seen anything like that in my life and probably never will that if they win that game going away maybe it ends up being fool's gold and you end up keeping Dable and Shane because you don't want to wreck the quarterback and have him have to go through a different regime in his second year and kind of talk yourself into what would be at the end of the day guys, a contract extension because you wouldn't have them go in as lame ducks in 26. So you'd see them. And if they're the wrong guys, even if they end up grooming the quarterback to be great, if they're the wrong guys, you're not winning because you can't win without good coaching. You can't. I don't care how good your quarterback is. Let's not forget Patrick Mahomes has Andy Reid. That's a big deal. And you know what Josh Allen doesn't have Andy Reid and that's why he hasn't been to a Super Bowl. So if you want to get to the end of the rainbow here, guys, you might need new coaching. So I didn't want to see what happened happen last night and I certainly don't want to see them completely fall apart the rest of the season. But if they do, there's going to be new coaching here and I think it would be well deserved.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think the most important thing that you are taking out of these last four weeks is that you really do put believe you have the quarterback. And we went into the season, we were talking about how you need to know by the end of the year, right? Like that's all we were to say. By the end of the year you want to feel like there were enough games, enough performances that told you, all right, this is the guy. I think after four weeks of him starting even with all the mistakes that he has made, he had that terrible interception, he should not have thrown that ball. There was somebody at his feet he could not get. He couldn't get enough on that throw. You see where he was going. Bellinger was there, he, he was open, but he just couldn't lollipop it over the top. And Stern Eye was right, was able to make that play. But if he's able to make that play. We're not talking about this today, right? We're not, we're not talking about any of this stuff. You're talking about an unbelievable win. But he just. That play was a fateful moment in the game. You take that, you take the interceptions against New Orleans and you understand the excuse of the young quarterback and you say I'm all right with that because you know you're going to live through it. But what he's giving you is not only a shot of adrenaline, the typical stuff, but he's giving you reason to believe that this guy you can win with for years to come because of what he's made of. And the fact that on the sideline the youngest guy on the field is turning around all his teammates saying win the frickin game. Let's win this thing.

[Alan Hahn]

We knew prior to yesterday about the moxie that's been there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but some of sometimes moxie's like moxie can bravado.

[Alan Hahn]

If you don't have the play to back it up, then it's yeah, then it's yeah. First of all, there's that it's not always loser. And then if you don't have a play to Back up the moxie. It's great. But yesterday he made a few throws that made me really stop and go, okay. Now I don't know. It's way too early to know what level this kid can get to, but he's a gamer.

[Don Hahn]

He's.

[Alan Hahn]

He, he definitely appears like a kid who's going to be around.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

He had a couple of throws yesterday in traffic, avoiding tackles, then making also impressive, just arm talent and then, and then at the end again. That drive at the end wasn't perfect, but he did enough. And the stretch there to get in the end zone was phenomenal as well. Yes, he showed a lot yesterday.

[Don Hahn]

He did, he did. And there were circumstances too. If that's on second or third down, less time. There's no time for, for Denver to come back. If they had a competent kicker. It never comes down to any of that. So I understand there's certain circumstances that led to Denver winning this game. The, the rare fight air and the Giants were exhausted by the end of the game. But you go back to that interception and if Mahomes throws that pick or even Daniel Jones last year throws that pick, it's on him. He's a veteran. He's been around. You got to know better. But for a kid, the coach has to know better. And on third and long in as great as you want to, the kids playing and as much as you want to put a statement, a big third down conversion and basically run out the clock and, and win the game, the prudent thing to do there would be the run on third down, force Denver to call their timeouts. And now they're out of timeouts even though there's a lot of time left, but at least you're punting it out and making them have to go to length of the field. Instead he throws a pick, returns it inside the 30 yard line. Now Denver believes the place is up for grabs. And now you created something that you never should have created. If, if, if Denver goes on a 75 yard touchdown drive, all right, then it's on the defense. Bad job. But Dable should never have put the kid in that situation to try to do it. Maybe they lose the game anyway, guys, but I still think they would have had an excellent chance to win had they just forced Denver to use the timeout and kick the ball out of there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How much of a reprieve do you give it that you at least are feeling like they got a quarterback? Like the losses sting? No doubt about it. But is there a part of you that at Least it's. It's not. As I'm curious about Giant. Like Giants fans have to at least feel maybe it's bittersweet, right. Because you want to. We could be four and three right now, and I guarantee you everybody upstairs is feeling that way. We should be four and three because that's what, like, the team leaders should be mad at themselves because the team should be four and three right now with this kid. They should be. But as a fan, as much as it is frustrating and maddening to lose games this way, did we not say we were all joking about it? Right. Hey, you're going to have some of these 3,228 losses. These are going to happen with a young quarterback, right? We were all talking about it. You got to live with these, and you were ready to live with it if the kid showed you he had any ability to be a true franchise quarterback. I think he's showing you that. So does it help cope?

[Don Hahn]

Of course.

[Peter Rosenberg]

With the loss?

[Don Hahn]

Because you need. In order to win a championship, you need a quarterback and you need a coach. You get the quarterback, you feel like you're halfway, so you're halfway there, you know, so, yeah, you got to feel good about that. But maybe it's just me trying to find a silver lining in a. In a pile of garbage that we had to sit through last night. But let's say the kid plays well the rest of the year and on. And because of him and circumstances, with the way that this NFC east now has become very interesting, you do find your way to being very much alive in December, even though the coaching's not very good, but the quarterback's great and, and you take advantage of some circumstances similar to what they did in 2022. Now what do you do? Your coach. You're not firing anybody if you. If you win seven, eight games and you're alive in December where you're young quarterback, right. You're giving Shane and Dable a contract extension because you believe in them just like you did at the end of 22, and you believed in Daniel Jones and everything that came from that. And then what would you have? Maybe. All right, maybe you have the quarterback, unlike Daniel Jones, and he becomes the franchise quarterback, the next Eli Manning, the next Phil Sims, the next Wyatt. But now you don't have the coach, but he's not going anywhere because he stumbles into a new contract. And Shane, who, you know, criminally didn't have a kicker in an important NFL game and cost him like. And he now has a job for the next three, four years and you never win because you don't have the GM and the coach to get it done. Then where are you?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like so treadmill at that point?

[Don Hahn]

Maybe this, as terrible as it was, as awful as it was, does set the scene for now I get to look for another head coach. Maybe I look for another general manager. And now because the quarterback is so good, I'm an attractive place for people to come. You're a lot more. Cheers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're a lot more attractive than you were a year ago.

[Don Hahn]

And because I might have some choices, I might be able to pick the guy that's best suited for my young quarterback. So you don't have to go through the growing pains of a second regime in his second year that seems to derail the best of quarterbacks. It certainly hurt. I think it's hurt Trevor Lawrence. I think certainly it hurt. It's hurt Kyler Murray. It's hurt a lot of quarterbacks having to get so many changes early in their career. Certainly, I think, hurt Sam Darnold too. Different offensive coordinators in the beginning of his career. But I think that would be better than maybe doubling and tripling down on this regime and having it not be the right guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The only hesitation I have, Don, is what we were talking about before is like, okay, well, who are you getting? Because you do see around the league, while there are hires that you see that make a difference again with Ben Johnson right now with the Bears, what he has Caleb Williams looking like and what that offense is doing. Once they got on track, it took them about a week or two. And then you started to see it like, here was a guy that was, you know, the whiz kid with the Detroit Lions and what he's able to do with their offense. And then he goes to Chicago and he's got that thing humming like you need to find that kind of a guy. You need to find. Or you bring in somebody who has experience, like what Vrabel did in New England, and just comes in and gets everybody organized and here we go. And suddenly having success as you're still trying to build the team out. But right now those guys aren't available. And the guys that are on the, you know, that you expect are going to get fired. Nobody you want to hire, you don't want Mike McDaniel. You're not going to go. You're not going to bring him in once Miami lets him go. And you know that's coming, right? That's the only issue is availability is really the only thing that matters when it comes to making a coaching change?

[Don Hahn]

I don't know the answer to that. We threw out some names before. If Tomlin shakes loose in Pittsburgh, let's say they collapse and John Harbaugh. What happens in Baltimore if it never gains any traction and they decide to part ways with him? Maybe he becomes available or maybe there is a college coach or an assistant somewhere that can be the next McVeigh or the next Shanahan. But that doesn't give a reason to stick with what you have when you clearly see it does not work. Dable is hanging on to what I believe was a fluky 22 season in which they went 9, 7, 1. They got a great matchup against Minnesota against another coach that's a quarterback whisperer. But does he win big games? I don't know. Then you get destroyed in Philadelphia and it's been downhill ever since. So I don't want who else is out there, Peter, to be the reason why you extend. Because I'm telling you, you know sports. They're not going to have Shane and Dable go in as lame ducks. They're not going to go coach and be general manager in their final year. So they're either going to get fired or get a contract extension. That didn't happen this year, which I thought was a mistake. I thought they should have let him go or at least double down and say, I believe in these guys. So it was a glorified audition. Audition's not going so well. You're two and five. Just had one of the worst losses in franchise history. That goes back over 100 years.

[Alan Hahn]

But maybe this will work out well. Maybe you get a look at the quarterback, assuming they're not going to break the quarterback. You get a look at him, you have more time. Like they probably know. Don, I really do think the Giants probably woke up today feeling the way you felt. I think we've seen enough here. We. John Mara has to know I cannot have losses like that. This, this is now multiple this year, basically that you can feel close to this way about. But yesterday was so brutal. So maybe it gives them now a really nice Runway to figure out exactly who the coach is. Because now you know that you have the quarterback.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got 10 more games here. And as Don said, anything can happen. I mean, again, the kids good enough to win you games, their defense is good enough to win you games. We'll see how the secondary injuries play out. Because you know, you saw already there's no secondary depth. I mean when they had to go to the depth. They got killed.

[Alan Hahn]

But do you mean that, that, that they could win too many games where it's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's a real thing.

[Alan Hahn]

I hear you. But it just seems like they're five now. They gave away two.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they have a tough schedule. We know.

[Alan Hahn]

Tough schedule.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We know they want the toughest schedule remaining.

[Alan Hahn]

So. So how. How well would they have to play? What's the record at this point that would protect Brian Dabel?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got 10 games left. If you win half of them, that gives you seven wins.

[Alan Hahn]

That's not enough. Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Hey, listen, if you're able to get up after this loss and go out there and win five of your last 10 with this schedule, that might be enough to save his job. I mean, take a look at the schedule. Are they winning in Philly? I would think the Eagles are going to have a chip on their shoulder. Would happen over at MetLife. They get games there, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

So that's plus they're secondary. They could get diced up if they keep the way.

[Alan Hahn]

The way that hurts looked yesterday.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. San Francisco comes in, I'm assuming that's a one o' clock game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's going to be a grind, that game.

[Don Hahn]

That's a grind. Chicago is a grind. Home against Green Bay, grind at Detroit, at New England, home against Washington, home against Minnesota, at Vegas, home against Dallas.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can give you.

[Don Hahn]

They might be a favorite. Is the Vegas game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No Washington, no Washington. But they're also.

[Don Hahn]

That's week 15. Week four. Yeah, week 15.

[Alan Hahn]

So no commanders could be a team then, but they might be finished also.

[Don Hahn]

You know, so if you best case scenario, could you. You beat Philadelphia, right. Can you beat him again in Philly? It's unlikely. It could happen.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But splits a reality though, right? So you take the split.

[Don Hahn]

I would think you take the split, right. San Francisco, your home. All right, maybe, maybe at Chicago, maybe. Maybe Green Bay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can get four I5 that have to be one that you kind of like catch by surprise.

[Alan Hahn]

So, so, so real quick, I gets you to 6 and 11.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can get 4.

[Don Hahn]

6.

[Peter Rosenberg]

11 doesn't feel.

[Alan Hahn]

It doesn't feel good. With some brutal losses, with some giveaway bad coaching. It's on you losses.

[Don Hahn]

I always say this. I need to see what it looks like. Kids balling. Let's say the kids ball and overcoming bad coaching. Let's say they win games and we're sitting here on Monday talking about what.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yesterday was almost yesterday was overcoming bad coaching. Because what did he do late? He got you to the end zone and he scored and he Said when the freaking. And then you kick her hit it off the freaking off the post.

[Don Hahn]

So we're not. Because if they. If for some reason let's say he's down and doesn't score on that first down. So now the clock's running and they score on third down with 10 seconds to go and there's just not enough time and they just walk off the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Field with a win that they escaped a walk off.

[Don Hahn]

We're not praising Dable.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don Hahn]

We're killing Dale and we're praising the kid and Bowen. So they might win four or five games. But if they all look like that where we're like the kids saved the day, the coach don't know what he's doing. Does it really matter what the record is?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, it's funny if it was the other way around and you were losing games but because the kid like just he looked good but he always had a moment where he just threw the ball away or he made a mistake and you would say all right, you know, you're losing games as this kid is learning and he made some mistakes that cost us games. But this is a like to say the interception is solely on him. Under five minutes to go. Now the only thing you could say is a veteran might have just tucked that and take and gone down right or thrown it into the ground but he just was trying to make a play because he's a competitor. And in that case again at third and eight knowing that the clock is your friend that you absolutely do not decide to throw the ball there, your emotional coach wants to go for it. Wants to make the statement. Wants so bad for the kid to just keep being the hero. He's. He wants to run out and put the cape on the kid's shoulders when you know what, just win the frickin game. Just play the clock out and be smart. Right.

[Don Hahn]

It's not sexy to hand it off and make Denver use their timeout. What sexy is the kid throws and aggression and all that his future to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This kid feels like it. It feels like it.

[Don Hahn]

And I think so you can't solely.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, so you agree you can't solely blame the kid, right?

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The throw is his throw. It's his interception.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but he's a choice.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh yeah we.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's not the play call.

[Don Hahn]

Did we not say I could live with losing games if the kid makes mistakes? I don't want. Listen, I don't want him to make mistakes in week 1617 the way he's making mistakes now. But hey, listen, I lived with the loss against New Orleans because from an offensive standpoint, because you're going to turn the ball over. What I couldn't live with is Slayton dropping a pass and him turning the ball over and the defense not getting a sack. Those are the things that irritated me about the saint laws.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was New Orleans. Right.

[Don Hahn]

Because those should be givens. If you got this pass rush with a kid that never won a game in the NFL, you should sack him a few times to not sack him, to have your veteran wide receiver drop a pass, turn the ball over, that's inexcusable. The kid turning the ball over three times, hey, he's gonna. That's gonna happen in his third NFL start. But you know that. That's the. It all depends on what it looks like. So I don't even want to get into the conversation how many wins it's going to take because it all depends on what it looks like. And if it looks more like what we saw in the first three quarters, well, then maybe D can save his job. But if it looks like it did in the fourth quarter, then you're going to. You're blowing the whole thing up. The more interesting conversation we can have this when we come back. And of course, a bunch of calls to get to at 1-800-919-3776 before ENN at 6 is what do you do with the GM? There's a lot of reasons why people want to buy at Ramsey Mazda. It's their selection, it's their customer service, and it's their savings. Lisa New 2025 Mazda CX5 2.5 S Select for 229 for 36 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda.com choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. Vin S 059-5731 MSRP 319150 security deposit and 1031 25. Because, guys, I think that's a tougher question, isn't it? Because he has drafted talent. He's obviously the guy that traded back into the first round to get the quarterback, but God, not having a kicker. Although I'll say this for Shane drafts, I think it's a lot more nuanced with Shane than it is with Dave.

[Alan Hahn]

I'll say this for Shane's defense on the kicker thing, and this is not a great defense. He's not the only one. Every week in this league, there are a few teams playing where he gets to the kicker and they go up. Well, let's hope for the best.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, it's funny, it's very kicking 60 yard field goals and some are just going to get them off the post.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but if, you know, got hurt on the flight to Denver, then I'd give him a break. But Gano's been hurt all year, been.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hurt and they're waiting all.

[Alan Hahn]

How do you not figure it out?

[Don Hahn]

You got to be able to figure out at this point. It's not just this year. It's been going on the last couple of years with gno. So I can't completely give him a pass there.

[Alan Hahn]

This is an ad by BetterHelp. BetterHelp therapists have helped over 5 million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. That's millions of stories, millions of journeys, and behind everyone is a therapist who showed up, listened and helped someone take a step forward. Moments in therapy, like the right question, a safe space to cry, or a small win can change lives. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. This World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month. Just call 250 and say the keyword timeout. That's keyword timeout after calling 250.

[Peter Rosenberg]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets Mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Don Hahn]

Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You by State Farm.

[Don Hahn]

Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy Smart move. Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast I didn't listen to.

[Don Hahn]

Anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast.

[Don Hahn]

Podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, we'll get to calls at 800-919-3776 in a moment. But I want to tell you guys about my good friends at Bath Fitter because not only did we update a bath at our house, and by the way, it's not just the bath, like they obviously do bath renovations, but we converted an old bath into a shower. And that's what they do. They rip the whole thing out. They put in a gorgeous shower and what a difference it has made. And my sister had one done at her house where she had the tub completely renovated. And she loves it as well. They take you to this through this process, a free in home consultation. You pick out style, color, specifics, accessories, like everything you can imagine to customize it just the way you want. Look at you. And now they offer all types of custom bath renovations. They have a unique permafit solution. It's a watertight fit, not something that, like, after about two years, it starts to bubble. It's not like that at all. This has a, by the way, lifetime guarantee. So you're not putting a lifetime guarantee on something that in like a year or two is going to start looking ugly. It's going to last forever. And right now is the best time to do it. If you really are thinking about having a bath renovation. No money down, no payments, no interest for 18 months, no interest until April of 2027. It's a permanent solution, everybody. It's done in one day. Durable, easy to clean, no demolition, lower cost, by the way, than a full replacement. And as I mentioned, the lifetime guarantee. You can trust the Bath Fitter team like we did. Start designing your bath today at Bath Fitter. There's only one bath fitter.

[Don Hahn]

Splash 77 6.

[Alan Hahn]

The number to call.

[Don Hahn]

We got lots to get into before we hand it off to Dan Grasse and the Rangers pregame show. So let's get back to the busy calls. Go to Robbie in Lenox, Massachusetts. You're on, New York.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, Robbie.

[Don Hahn]

What's up, Robbie?

[Robbie]

Hallelujah. Thanks, guys, for taking my call. I really appreciate. I mean. All right, let's. Let's talk about. You and I go way back. I'm four years older than you. I go back to 1972 behind the polls at Yankee Stadium, and I go back to the game and I never forget this. I grew up in Portchester, New York, and I went to The Empire State flea market so I could trade baseball cards. And I come home and my father says, you'll never believe what happened. They had the end of the game. All they had to do was sit down and hand it off to Larry Zonka and there's a fumble. Here comes Herman Edwards going the other way. Right? I haven't been that ticked off since those days in the 70s where there's just nothing, nothing more than stupidity. This is Russell Wilson throwing the ball in the Super Bowl. This is Shanahan blowing three Super Bowls with stupidity. You don't put the ball in the air if you don't have to. You don't take a kid who's in his fourth game, what in the National Football League is 15 point game, okay? And put the pressure on him. Mike Kafka is just as big a moron as Brian Dabel is just as big as Warren Shane's Bowen, okay? Three blind mice. All right, These guys are clueless. Now, to me, this is a transition between. Between John McVeigh right in the beginning of George Young and Ray Perkins and then Bill Parcells. If this talent group had anything of a coaching staff, it would be much better. Now, let's look at Joe Shane. The fact that they don't have a kicking game. Absolutely. I agree, Peter, and Don is on him, okay? But there's certain things about this coach that are so ridiculous. First of all, why are you going for two points? That's asinine, okay? There's no reason for it. Do not change the chase, the points, because now you're down four instead of three worth field goal, you know, ties the game. That's completely ridiculous. Then at the end of the game, why in the world are you. Why are you dropping these guys? Now, here's a couple things to think about, all right? And I was talking to Tiki the other day and we talked about this, all right? Tiki Barber told me basically that there's certain things and assignments that guys are responsible for. Drew Phillips is responsible for a guy underneath, and the other guys are responsible for deep coverages. So it's a combination of stupidity on Bowen's fault and just players being stupid. But 33 points in the fourth quarter is the most embarrassing thing. I literally threw my coffee table down yesterday at the end of that game. It was ridiculous to watch. I have never in my life seen such stupidity. All you have to do is force timeouts. That is football. One on one. ABC is as simple as anything you've ever seen. How could you consider yourself an NFL coach. Go ahead, guys.

[Don Hahn]

Robbie. It's because what the NFL now has become. And these guys get hired because of brilliant off minds, their quarterback whispers or they can on the defensive side. They, they come up with creative packages to blitz and they think outside the box. All right, but can you coach? Can you coach a game? Do you know how to use your timeouts? Do you know when to run, when to throw? You know when to go for two? And the answer is always no. Because we forget that you got to go out there and coach the damn game.

[Robbie]

Right? How stupid is this?

[Don Hahn]

Right?

[Robbie]

If you're good at now, if you're going to have doors, throw, throwing first down, why are you throwing a third down? You've already won twice and used them, forced them for timeouts. And I give credit to Sean Payton, who's a Hall of Fame coach for taking immediate timeouts and stopping. So then what do they do? Run, run, pass. They do the same predictable thing. Run, run, pass. So if you're going to try to be creative and cute, throw them first or second down, don't throw third down. That's the time to force them to take a timeout. Then you kick the ball deep and you force them to go down the field. And at best they have an onside kick at the end of that game. And also too, how in the world do you go into the way with no kicker?

[Don Hahn]

It's amazing.

[Robbie]

My girlfriend, I are sitting there yesterday watching the game. I said to her, the Giants can win this game. The biggest problem is their kicking game. And that's what it came down to. Thanks for coming. Let's go Rangers.

[Don Hahn]

Anyway, I know you're sick to your stomach. I'm sick to my stomach. But you know, I've been thinking about it all day because it happens in baseball too. Because football has the analytics and they have the ways of looking at things. Does anybody take the time to know, can you coach the game? Do you have a feel for what's happening on the field? Are you able to change the game plan on the fly or is it just this is what we do?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you got it. You got. You have to be able to adjust. I mean, that's part of the whole thing. By the way, they could put in just an analytics man. That's what makes football different than baseball. You can't just do that. You have to have someone who has a feel for the game. It's like you talked about earlier, Don. Why does a great. Why does Brian Billick go to Baltimore and have the greatest defensive team that you don't even think of their offense. Because ultimately, being a football coach is about so much more than play calling and analytics. It is about feel for the game. And that's why there's these little worrisome moments that happen, right? Like it's one of the reasons fans go crazy about clock management. Why do you not understand? You don't want to end the game with timeouts in your pocket. Why do I get that? You don't get that. Why? Just there's little things that you see coaches do and you go, why are you throwing every time late in the game when you're nursing a lead, what do you do? You don't have your rookie quarterback putting the ball in the air over the middle of the field. It's an insane thing to do. That should have been Donna of everything. That should have been not an option.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What some coaches fear is being too conservative. They don't want to be looked at as it's third and eight and you ran again, why didn't you try to get the first down? Why are you punting there? Why are you giving the ball back? You should run a play to try to get a pat once again, if no one is at Dart's feet, he probably completes that for a first down, right? I think, first of all, again, I think one of Brian Dabel's biggest faults as a head coach has nothing to do with an understanding of football. I can tell you, I promise you, no one studies the game more than he does. He studies the game, he lives the game, he breathes the game. It's all about that, right? He is, he puts in all the work necessary, as all these guys do. I think he's just too emotional. I think he's a, he's a ride the momentum. He wants to throw the haymaker. He, he is so all about this kid that he wants him to be the hero. He wants this moment for him. And so he's going to be aggressive in those moments because he believes in him. He wants to see him do it because he thinks he can. And so it's easy for us to second guess that play. That is not a one man play. There's a lot of people with blood on their hands on that play. Dart doesn't get the throw off. Maybe he's not moving enough. Maybe he should have gotten out of the pocket at that point. He probably should have just run, but he wanted to extend that play. That's him being too aggressive. But he's young, he'll learn. His also coach and his Offensive coordinator were in go for it mode. I promise you one of the options in that play was for Dart to run. Promise you that if nothing's there, just run, find the hole, go, just get yards. But we all look back now and say the smart thing to do there is just let the clock run, make them call timeout, then punt the football. But there was still over four minutes left in the game when that play was developing. Like, there's still a lot of time to bleed off the clock that you'd have to try to do. I'm just saying that I'm not calling Brian Dable stupid. Like, again, the caller was going a little too far. He's not. That's not stupid. He's being aggressive because he doesn't want to be considered as too conservative. You got to let your guy play. We'll. We'll find fault one way or another if they lose this game. And that's kind of. I think he'd rather err on the side of being aggressive and just go for it rather than hand it off. Cause Scatter Boo got zero and two yards in the first two carries. There was nothing to do.

[Don Hahn]

But I'm not interested at that point. Yeah, I'd love to get the first down, but right now my goal is to make them use their timeout and. And it becomes a field position game.

[Alan Hahn]

All right? And by the way, and I. And speaking of field position, the one thing I cannot do is hand them the ball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Turnover.

[Alan Hahn]

Cannot have it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Can't turn over.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can't do it. I'm just trying to, like, what I try to do in these situations is we all know the obvious thing and we all have the same take. But I wonder, like, what could he be thinking in that moment?

[Don Hahn]

Because.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the only thing I can think of is that he's saying, I don't want to be passive, but that's a problem.

[Don Hahn]

I don't want to go for it.

[Alan Hahn]

If what Alan's saying is right, Don, because he's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's emotional. He's a fiery guy.

[Alan Hahn]

If Alan's right and what was going through his head was, I don't want to be perceived that way, that's a problem. Of course, now you're coaching based on perception. Now you're not even coaching based on situation.

[Don Hahn]

And everybody's going to love you and lose the game. They're going to hate you. Who cares about everything else? We see this with Aaron Glenn, too. You shouldn't be motivated by what the questions are going to be in the post the back page of the paper.

[Alan Hahn]

Cannot be on your mind. And by the way, it ends up being worst loss ever.

[Don Hahn]

Now, I will say where I think it is more is almost knowing too much football in the sense of this is what we do when we see this. Look, all right, so it's third and eight, whatever it was, and this is the call. And the way we've done it, the way we practice it is when we see this defense in this situation, on this end of the field, this is the play that we use, all right? That's usually how it ends up working. At the end of the day, that's the fallback. That's when they're looking at that little chart. They're seeing the different plays and what gets called. And I'm sure very early in his career right now, that's what Dart's looking at. All right, this is the play for this particular moment. Yeah, in any other moment, but in this particular moment, it's about making sure at the end of the day, they're using their timeout. The clock continues to roll otherwise, and we're punting the ball. We're not putting our quarterback in harm's way. We're not putting him in a situation where he might turn the ball over in the second quarter. That might be the exact right play. And nobody would criticize it in the moment. But I've got to be. I've got to be thinking the feel of that moment is I've got to punt the ball, I've got to change field position. I've got to make them use their last timeout. So anything that applied any other time of the game doesn't matter. So that's the feel. Nobody's ever going to accuse Dable of not knowing what he's doing. We saw in Hard Knocks the guys at Sivan when it comes to plays and understanding what to do in certain situations. But there's times where you throw everything out and what's the feel of that moment? And that moment was making sure you held onto the football and that Denver used their timeout.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It is, again, things we can dissect. But there's so many games left in this season that I'm really curious to see if these continue to be building blocks despite losses to where it saves the. I still think the coach has a road to being saved. I know it sounds crazy.

[Don Hahn]

No, he does.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I really do think that. I don't want to say redemption, but I really do feel like he's got still a place where he could save his job because a, the quarterback is good, he's legit good. And there are games on the schedule that are winnable and then there's games that you could see them be competitive because they're a team. And this is, if you're a Giants fan, this is the first thing you're trying to accomplish every week. You have a chance to win every week.

[Don Hahn]

Well, yeah, you haven't said about the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Team in a couple of years.

[Don Hahn]

If you believe they lost because they didn't have a kicker, if you believe they lost because of the rarefied air, right, the altitude, then hey, that's not going to be, that's not going to be an issue in Philadelphia next week. Right. And they should get some of their secondary back. None of the guys that left the game look like they're going to be long term injuries. So you should be healthier next week.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You hope so.

[Don Hahn]

You're going to be, you're going to be playing in lower altitude, right? You're gonna. So yeah, there. If you believe that it was all because of circumstances, those circumstances may change in your favor in Philadelphia. And if you play the way you played in the first three quarters, you should win the game easily. Let's see, the avenue's there. I'm not confident, but you were right. The avenue's there. Now celebrate the return of Knicks basketball with us live from Stout NYC across from Madison Square Garden this Wednesday before the Knicks home over against the Cavaliers. We'll be broadcasting live starting at 3:00 with special guest appearances for Monica McNutt, haven't seen her since last year's playoffs, and Pat O', Keefe, who's a gem. All brought to you by Sun Cruiser Vodka Iced Tea.

[Alan Hahn]

Whoever you're repping this season, carry the team like a pro with Ultra durable.

[Don Hahn]

Officially licensed YETI drinkware. Whether it's the NFL, ncaa, mlb, NHL or mls, YETI has you covered with drinkware in all your favorite team colors.

[Alan Hahn]

So if you're a serious fan, now's the time to get serious about your.

[Don Hahn]

Gear with officially licensed Yeti drinkware built.

[Alan Hahn]

For the long haul. Find all the teams you root [e-mail].

[Don Hahn]

Or a Yeti store near you. Imagine fast hydration combined with balanced energy. Perfectly flavored with zero artificial sweeteners. Introducing Liquid Ivy's new energy multiplier. Sugar free. Unlike other energy drinks, you know the ones that make you feel like you're glitching. It's made with natural caffeine and electrolytes so you get the boost without the burnout liquid IVs, new energy multiplier. Sugar free hydrating energy. Tap the banner to learn more at New Balance. We believe if you run, you're a runner, however you choose to do it. Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way. And that's what running is all about. Run your [e-mail] running.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Game Time is brought to you by Teleportu Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, guys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

It's Charlie time.

[Alan Hahn]

It's Tolly time.

[Don Hahn]

Rangers host the Wild with coverage of music following us here on 880 at 630 and coverage of the American League Championship Series. Game 7 is on 1050 at 7. And that'll be on 880 following the conclusion of our Rangers cover. Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. So before we get to enn, let's get back to the busy phone calls. Talk to Chris in Barnegat here on ESPN New York. What's up, Chris?

[Robbie]

Hey, guys. Just wanted to hop on here and. Well, first things first. Don doing a great job on the Devils. Really killing it. Not really big, but I've been tuning in and. And I've been loving it, so.

[Don Hahn]

Well, you're gonna.

[Alan Hahn]

If you. If people miss the Don calls, listen to the beginning of vnn. We're gonna get you all caught up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, the one that went viral.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, come on, baby. That's viral. Pucks over there. Viral dp. Whoa. Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what?

[Don Hahn]

Let's go ahead. Viral.

[Alan Hahn]

We're gonna back it on up. It. Let me workshop a bit between now.

[Don Hahn]

I would shed that one.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, Chris, go ahead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, please save it. Anyways.

[Robbie]

Yeah. So back to the football. This is an interesting one. And you know, I think if Brian Dable gets fired and I think he should. I think the Giants should go ahead and. Go ahead and look at Jon Gruden.

[Don Hahn]

He.

[Robbie]

It's tough because of what he's done, obviously, but he's done a really good job of, you know, making himself look better. He's working over at Barstool and doing A really good job of rebranding over there. I just think it's a guy that has experience, and, you know, he's won a Super bowl before. I think he's more of an offense. He's definitely more of an offensive guy. So that helps Jackson dart.

[Don Hahn]

And.

[Robbie]

And like I said, he's a guy that's done it before. So it's kind of similar to the variable thing where, you know, he knows what to do, he knows how to organize it all. And also, it's just. It would be entertaining as hell to see him every. Every postgame press conference.

[Don Hahn]

It doesn't feel like it would be a giant hire. But also, just strictly to football, he has not had a winning season in his last four years, and the last time he had a winning season was in Tampa in 2008. And we're talking about him being the coach 18 years later. He would be 24 years removed from that Super Bowl. I know he's an offensive guy, and he would add a lot of personality. I can't kill the Giants if they weren't interested in that.

[Alan Hahn]

I just think I agree with him about the entertaining part, and I do think that he's someone who could get another shot somewhere else, and he's doing a good job with the rebrand. But yet my problem is, is it worth the money and the having to explain giving him another shot with how far removed he is from success? Like, literally, the league is different, that it's. We are that far removed. It is a different NFL than when he last won a championship.

[Don Hahn]

You know, all these retro things seem great, right? And it wasn't that long ago he was coaching in the NFL, right. He was 3 and 2 when he got let go in the 21 season. So it's not like, you know, Bill Cower coming back, who hasn't coached in forever, but there wasn't a lot of success towards the end. And the last success, like I said, we had in a very, very important job of the young quarterback. It's too much of a chance now. Does he deserve another chance? I think everybody deserves another chance. And, you know, and it looks like he's trying to clean up his image a little bit, but it would be a controversial hire if it ever did happen. And in New York, it just magnifies it even more. Bob in Greenwich, you're on espn, New York.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, Bob.

[Robbie]

Good evening. I've got a question for you guys.

[Don Hahn]

What are the. And I don't want to go back 60 years.

[Robbie]

What are the three worst comebacks for the team that lost in football.

[Don Hahn]

Well, if you want to just keep it local. You know the jets had that the divisional round against Cleveland. I don't know how the heck that happened. The nine point loss the Giants suffered in the playoffs against the Vikings in 97. You know obviously the. The Jackson kick return against Philadelphia in 2010, 2002 San Francisco. Can you think of any other ones in football? I mean obviously the super. But if you want to go outside local. The Falcons blowing a 28 to 3 lead in the super bowl.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's. That to me might because of the stage my. That's the worst greatest meltdown ever.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. I mean in football that I can think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm look I just looking at a list here that was put together. You know there's a bunch that are playoff games. Basically a 24. 7 Browns lead in 2003 in the wild card to the Steelers. Blew that.

[Don Hahn]

Well, the epic one. I'm sorry. The Bills coming back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, what was Frank Reich.

[Don Hahn]

Frank, right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that one.

[Don Hahn]

In there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Also like the fake spike game too. When the jets are big in that game, 24 to 6.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean that's a. That's a pretty epic.

[Alan Hahn]

That's 18 too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a pretty epic meltdown.

[Don Hahn]

But just again the thing that the box score just blows you well because you see zeros then 33, 33 points in the fourth quarter. Now give Denver credit. They would they score 17 unanswered in Philadelphia the week before.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don Hahn]

Two weeks before. Excuse me. Before going. So maybe that's in their DNA and Denver's a good team, but that doesn't make it feel any better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Second most by a team in the fourth quarter. 33 points.

[Alan Hahn]

Not what you want is what some would say.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Second most. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Who. What was the most? They have it there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think it was 34. It was only one more like it was. And it wasn't anything that stood out to me that was like oh, that team. You know what I mean?

[Don Hahn]

I think I'm saying you're right. Renato. Not sure. In Utica. You're on espn. New York. Did I say your name correctly or did I butcher it?

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sensing Butcher.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

Somewhere where he doesn't know him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There he is.

[Robbie]

Hi guys. Love the show. Don Allen Rosenberg. I think you guys are great. Other thing I wanted to say was and I'm sick of both franchises in New York cutting costs on head coaches. I think Glenn and Dabal should be fired. I think that there's the definition of insanity is doing the same mistake over and over and over again. I think the next Giant head coach has to have experience. Who has won the super bowl, won a playoff game, somebody who's not starting over. Brinhou Davis should be fired today. Glenn should be fired today. And there's no cap on coaches. So this whole first time thing, if you're not gonna hire somebody to build your house for the first time, if you're not gonna have a doctor.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I.

[Don Hahn]

But I don't think they're being cheap. But because I think Glenn's a five year contract and if you base it off of what rumors are, I. I think he's making a lot of money. Guys. I don't think the jets went cheap on Aaron Glenn. I. I think they were desperate because there wasn't a lot of people that wanted the job. But I. What's his name in. In Chicago. He's making 13 a year and it's his first job. I'm not saying that Glenn's making that much, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I doubt they got him close to double digits.

[Don Hahn]

It's not cheap. Whatever it is. I still not firing a coach seven games into a season. That's. I know you're mad, although you're getting.

[Alan Hahn]

We keep. We've kind of had this conversation repeatedly and I kind of have a hunch I know where it ends up bearing out like it started out with both of you guys. Like, absolutely not. There's no chance. I feel like week by week it's just gonna get a little bit more realistic.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This feels like we're gonna probably start nitpicking now, coaching for the rest of the season. Well, would you want to know what it looks like and what the. Yeah, come on.

[Don Hahn]

No, but you're missing my point in the sense that I'm not saying he may not deserve to be fought.

[Alan Hahn]

No, and I know what you're saying.

[Don Hahn]

I think the jets have committed themselves to stick with it for at least the foreseeable future, definitely through the first year. Now, you made a point last week. Start 07 next year. After a 1 in 16 year, he may lose patience, but I really think patience is a virtue here. They might have. They might have bound and gagged Woody at this point. He might want to do it, but I think the organization has made a commitment that they want to give this guy at least a couple of seasons.

[Alan Hahn]

I know they. And I agree with you that I know they want to, but I'm just saying week by week, if they get to this point where like you have these winnable games where they're playing against average football teams and all you got to do is punch it in once or twice and win. It's going to get tougher.

[Don Hahn]

This offense is historically bad. And listen, I'm like, I'm not.

[Alan Hahn]

That's saying something for a Jets team.

[Don Hahn]

This Carolina bad, you know, but they'll run into some wins. But I don't know what's the difference between 1 and 16 and 3 and 14. It's going to be that type of season and I think they kind of knew that going in. But hey, times change. And Carolina is bad, by the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, they were 21st ranked. They don't get after the quarterback.

[Don Hahn]

It doesn't matter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like the fact that they got six sacks is a joke. When they had five coming in like, come on. Like, like also that was, that was bad offense more than it was good defense.

[Alan Hahn]

You just said us a little something, Don. That, that has a lot it. You were like, what's the difference? You know, 1, 2, 3. Don't you guys agree? The number you gotta get past to not feel historical is you gotta get past two wins. Two and 15 or one in 16 sounds.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

The extra game, you gotta get to three and 14.

[Don Hahn]

I, I and I. And I think this defense will set them up to, to run into a couple of wins here. I do.

[Alan Hahn]

They already have. They've done their part.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but I, but the defense is starting to play better. It's getting healthier.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So the defense has allowed 13 or fewer points right. In the last two games.

[Alan Hahn]

That's pretty good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Only the second team to ever lose.

[Don Hahn]

Both and, and yet had the ball in key situations. And like there was zero threat. Like when the defense gave the jets the ball back, I'm like, they're still not gonna. You could put the ball to one. They're not gonna score. Like they just, they're not gonna. It's just really, really bad. You know what's not bad?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Put the ball at the one that should.

[Alan Hahn]

Like a picture.

[Don Hahn]

The new rule.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Robbie]

Talk about stepping up.

[Don Hahn]

It's time to level up your game. Introducing the all new ESPN app. All of ESPN all in one place. Your home for the most live sports and the best championship moments.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The electricity is palpable.

[Don Hahn]

Step up your game. With no annual contract required. It's the ultimate fan experience level up. For More on the ESPN app or.

[Alan Hahn]

At stream.espn.com sign up now.