Hour 3: Game 2, Ice Picks & Heated Debate

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast — May 21, 2026

Hour 3: Game 2, Ice Picks & Heated Debate

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Episode Overview

Hour 3 of the Don, Hahn & Rosenberg show dives deep into the New York Knicks’ playoff journey—specifically, the critical Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals against the Cleveland Cavaliers. Hosts Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, and Don Hahn engage in heated analysis and passionate debate, focusing on coaching choices, player mentality, series outlook, and what would constitute the “worst loss” in Knicks or New York sports history. There’s also a segment dedicated to NHL playoffs with signature "Ice Picks" and some light-hearted conversation about hockey history and team trivia.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Knicks-Eastern Conference Finals: Game 2 Analysis

Kenny Atkinson’s Coaching & Harden’s Defense

• Timeout and matchup criticism: The hosts scrutinize Atkinson's decision to keep James Harden on Jalen Brunson late in Game 1, and his overall use of timeouts.
  • Alan Hahn: “Kenny Atkinson’s getting beat up pretty good… not using his timeouts, keeping Harden on Brunson. He’s a really good coach that did not have a good day.” (01:07)
• Atkinson’s defense of Harden: Atkinson believes in Harden as an isolation defender, arguing defensive collapses were largely team-based.
  • Knicks Player or Coach: “He’s a good isolation defender, always has been. He’s super smart... I was a little more upset with our backline defense.” (06:23)
  • Peter Rosenberg: “You can see clearly, he’s trying to take the pressure off Harden… got to keep him right. If you start also ripping on him… you’ll lose him, and then you’ll lose this series quickly.” (07:22)

Harden’s Mentality and the Importance of Player Management

• Alan Hahn: “He knows they’re not going anywhere without him. I think he’s handled this very professionally and we’ll see how they respond.” (08:08)
• Peter Rosenberg: “What you’re trying to get is his bounce back game tonight, where he takes over the building, where he calls it Madison Square Harden… That’s what Kenny’s hoping for tonight by just stroking his ego a little bit.” (08:20)

Game 2 Expectations & the Role of Leadership

• Momentum and mentality: The hosts discuss New York’s confidence, the expectation of a win, and the emotional footrace happening among fans and team alike.
  • Alan Hahn: “As much as it seems improbable from our side of it… it’s one loss. He’s got to keep his players engaged, because if they think about blowing the lead, if they think about how they should be up 1 nothing, then it’s 2 nothing, and then it’s over.” (09:44)
• Adjustments needed: The group debates how much the Knicks can rely on Brunson going forward, the necessity of scoring depth, and Cat’s (Karl-Anthony Towns’) need for a bounce-back game after costly fouls in Game 1.
  • Alan: “They do not win a championship doing it the old way. You can’t live on the man’s back every single night… you still have to have other guys involved. They got to get in transition, and that’s going to be how they win.” (11:03, 19:10)
  • Peter Rosenberg: “This can’t be Brunson ISO basketball as the only way you’re going to win… You need it when it’s necessary late in games, clutch moments, but not for a whole game.” (18:49)

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On the Reality of Playoff Losses & Streaks

• Streak psychology: The hosts share the psychology of playoff winning streaks and how sudden, improbable comebacks often signal the impending end of a run.
  • Alan Hahn: “When you see a streak… and something crazy happens to extend the streak, I’ve noticed it’s usually the last game of a streak.” (14:00)
• Perspective on losing: They remind fans that even elite teams will lose games and that's not the end of a championship run.
  • Alan Hahn: “You don’t have to win every single game to win a championship.” (16:18)
  • Peter Rosenberg: “You just have to win 16 of them and make sure you don’t get four losses in the same series.” (16:22)

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NHL Segment: "Ice Picks" & Hockey History

Ice Picks Revival & Playoff Predictions (22:31)

• Nostalgic return of the "Ice Picks" segment, with the crew discussing Game 1 of the Eastern Conference Finals.
• Montreal Canadiens picked over Carolina Hurricanes:
  • Alan Hahn: “There is a history of teams coming off of Game 7, taking on a team with a long layoff, actually playing well in Game 1… I like [Montreal] to win tonight.” (23:05)
  • Betting angle: Canadiens at +164 (23:55)
• Carolina Hurricanes trivia:
  • Peter Rosenberg: “How many times have they won Game 1 [in conference finals]?”
    Guest Analyst: “None.” (30:18)
  • Alan Hahn: “That is pretty incredible, isn’t it?... They did go to the final in ’06 and won the Cup.” (30:40)

Vegas Golden Knights & Brett Howden's Playoff Run

• Discussion about Brett Howden’s standout performance and the unpredictability of playoff heroes.
  • Caller/Guest: “If he has one more shorthanded goal, he’ll actually break the record for most shorthanded goals in a Stanley Cup playoff ever.” (25:17)

John Tortorella and Media Relations

• The team touches on the consequences of Tortorella’s refusal to talk to the media, supporting league penalties even though they like him personally.
  • Alan Hahn: “You got to open up the room. You got to talk to the media… There are certain rules that have to be followed.” (27:37)

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Trivia & Lighter Segments

Islanders' New Affiliate

• Hamilton Hammers announced as the Islanders’ new affiliate mascot, to much amusement. (28:33)

NHL Conference Finals Trivia

• Carolina Hurricanes appearance and game one records tested live (29:20–30:40).

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Heated Debate: What’s the "Worst Loss" in New York Franchise History?

The show’s closing stretch erupts into a passionate back-and-forth on sports heartbreaks:

• User caller Richard (from Manhattan) prompts the hosts to compare past Knicks, Yankees, Mets, and Rangers disappointments (32:44–34:41).
• Richard: “If the Knicks lose to Cleveland, is this the worst playoff loss in Knicks history?” (35:32)

The Finals vs. Conference Finals Debate

• Alan Hahn insists the 1994 NBA Finals loss to Houston (after being up 3–2) is untouchable as the worst heartbreak.
  • Guest Analyst: “There’s no other comparison… You can’t compare losing Game 7 in the Finals. Anything else.” (36:36)
• Peter Rosenberg argues that context—such as level of expectation, odds, and the magnitude of upset—could make a loss to Cleveland worse, even if it’s not in the Finals.
  • Peter Rosenberg: “It would be a colossal upset for the Cavs to beat you. You just can’t have it.” (37:24)
  • Alan Hahn: “The Rockets were minus 220 [favorites]. The Knicks are minus 265 to beat the Cavs. But that shouldn’t matter.” (40:31)
• Guest Analyst: “When you say worst in franchise history, it’s all encompassing… That was your greatest chance to win a championship and you didn’t. And you had the advantage.” (38:46)
• The segment ends without consensus, but with both sides emphasizing the emotional and contextual complexity of sports heartbreak.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He does believe in Harden and maybe too much. Many coaches have lost their job because of that belief… If you take Harden out, you lose him for the series.” — Peter Rosenberg (03:28)
• “Kenny’s hoping for [Madison Square] Harden tonight… Great players usually come back and play a great game.” — Peter Rosenberg (08:20)
• “They do not win a championship doing it the old way… You can’t live on the man’s back every single night.” — Alan Hahn on Brunson-centric offense (11:03)
• “This can’t be Brunson ISO basketball as the only way you’re going to win… not for a whole game.” — Peter Rosenberg (18:49)
• “When you see a streak… and something crazy happens to extend the streak, I’ve noticed it’s usually the last game of a streak.” — Alan Hahn (14:00)
• “You don’t have to win every single game to win a championship. You just have to win 16 of them and make sure you don’t get four losses in the same series.” — Peter Rosenberg (16:18–22)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Key Discussion | |------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:07 – 04:45 | Atkinson/Harden decision & Knicks-Cavs Game 1 breakdown | | 06:23 – 08:20 | Atkinson defends Harden, player psychology | | 09:44 – 13:06 | Game 2 expectations, Knicks’ mentality, Cat’s bounce back | | 14:00 – 16:31 | Winning streak psychology, playoff pressure | | 18:43 – 19:23 | Offensive balance: Brunson vs. team strategy | | 22:31 – 31:34 | Ice Picks: NHL playoffs, Montreal-Carolina, trivia, Brett Howden | | 35:32 – 41:10 | “Worst Loss” in New York sports, 1994 vs. current Knicks debate | | 44:12 – 46:39 | More “worst loss”/context debate; Mets heartbreak analogies | | 50:17 – 52:30 | Caller perspectives, final arguments |

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The hour blends passionate sports analysis with camaraderie, banter, and deep personal investment in New York sports. Listeners get expert-level breakdowns on X’s and O’s, betting insights, playoff tradition, and emotionally charged debates sure to echo the thoughts of many New Yorkers.

If you missed this episode:

• You’ll come away understanding the tactical and psychological stakes of Knicks-Cavs, why the way teams lose (not just that they lose) matters, and why the emotional memory of New York’s sporting past always haunts the present.
• The hockey “Ice Picks” segment provides a lighter, yet informative, interlude for fans of all New York sports.

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End of Summary

Transcript

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[Don Hahn]

a million Bucks this is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Game time is brought to you by

[Alan Hahn]

Tullamore Do Irish Whiskey because when it's game time guys,

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

Mets have a 2 nothing lead on the Nationals as that game moves to the bottom of the fourth inning. Boba Shet with a couple of RBIs for the Mets. That game can be heard on 880 right now the Cavs of the Knicks have game two of the Eastern Conference Finals with coverage on 1050 starting at seven and joining in progress on 880 after the Mets coverage is over and the Yankees face the Blue Jays at 7:05. Tullamore due the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish Whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Due Honey during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly so the Knicks have a chance to take a two nothing series lead or at least hold serve in this series. Kenny Atkinson's getting beat up pretty good, right? Yeah, not using his timeouts keeping Harden on Brunson. He's a really good coach that did not have a good day. And if you remember yesterday, Aaron Goldhammer from ESPN Cleveland, I remember thought that

[Peter Rosenberg]

he was just caught daydreaming.

[Alan Hahn]

His family's in town and thinking about

[Peter Rosenberg]

dinner and he's up 22 points and that was his excuse. I don't necessarily buy it, but when you're a great coach and you have that bad of a day, I guess everything's on the table. Alan Right, because bad coach isn't like if this is somebody that you question

[Alan Hahn]

their ability to coach, you'd say, well,

[Peter Rosenberg]

this is why he's A bad coach. We know Kenny Atkinson's a good coach. So if bad coach isn't on the table, then as much as we don't buy what Aaron said, I have to at least be open to the possibility

[Alan Hahn]

that it's on the table.

[Alan]

No, just not the way that he said it, though. The idea that maybe he slipped up and had some sort of lapse of some sort. I mean, he made a bad choice, so there was some lapse. But he was saying he's worried more about his family being there, and that's ridiculous.

[Peter]

I've known the guy for forever. He does. That's not what he's doing in that moment. What he talked about is some of the. And this is true. I mean, some of the shots Brunson was making were heroic shots. Some of the threes, they made, like the sham it3 bounce shot, like, come on. They could have won that game easily. If that Merrill shot bounces in, it was halfway down. It was. It was a half a bang, as they say, right?

[Alan]

It was a half a bang.

[Peter]

Yeah. Yeah. Mike Brain only got out the book, and then he didn't finish it because it bounced out.

[Guest Analyst]

So I think if you're.

[Peter]

Kenny in that moment, you're just going with. Like, this isn't going to keep up. Like, he just kind of believed that his team was fine and didn't want to panic and didn't want to overreact or whatever. I don't know. But he does believe in Harden and maybe too much. And many coaches have, you know, gone down because of their belief. Right. Many coaches have lost their job because of that belief. I think he's got to do this, though, because if you take Harden out in that situation, you lose him for the series. If you know James Harden, he's not one of these guys that like. Like.

[Guest Analyst]

Like. You heard Josh Hart, right?

[Peter]

Josh Hart's reaction yesterday, we played it on the air, which I loved when, hey, you were bench late in the game. Had that feeling. I'm. I don't love being on the bench watching it, but I'm here to serve these guys in whatever capacity and who I have to be selfless. I. I can't be selfish about wanting to be out there. If we're winning, we got to do what's best for the team. I always put the team over me. He says that, but James Harden's history is not that. James Harden's history is a guy that will. Oh, you don't believe me anymore. Oh, I guess I'm not any good anymore. Like, he just. He'll do that stuff and so you can't do that in game one. Pull him out, embarrass him. Oh, you get.

[Guest Analyst]

You're getting ripped.

[Peter]

You're getting. They're killing you. They're torturing you. I got to get you out of the game.

[Guest Analyst]

You might lose them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What about.

[Guest Analyst]

So Kenny double down yesterday, guys. He doubled down yesterday at practice. When he says no, he's really good.

[Peter]

One on one defender.

[Guest Analyst]

I'll stick with it.

[Peter]

I'm not changing it.

[Alan]

Can I. I want to ask you two questions, Alan. Just answer as quickly as possible, which I know could be challenging for you.

[Peter]

Listen, I'm sorry. No, listen, I'm into this today.

[Alan]

Don't be sorry. You should be. This is your time. Why not offense, defense in that spot,

[Peter]

then it's a good call. I don't know.

[Alan]

Because that way, that way. Because, by the way, we can't forget Harden hit the shot to tie the game.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Alan]

So you can't forget that Harden worked and got his own shot that rolled in. So it's not like he wasn't valuable to them. So, okay, number one, why no offense? Defense. Don't get it. Number two. Am I crazy for my feeling that even though Brunson was scoring on every possession, I do feel like Harden. Not on sometimes. He was out of his shoes, but on. I thought half of those possessions. He did a pretty good job getting

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

his hand in his face.

[Alan]

They were just impossible to stop shots from Brunson.

[Peter]

It's what I said at the beginning, remember, like watching the game back. Some of the shots Brunson hit, they're impossible. Epic shots high off the glass. Just great finishes. He was going to his right. He wasn't going left.

[Alan]

I'm not taking away that. There were a couple possessions when Harden looked silly for sure, but, oh, when he couldn't turn.

[Peter]

Yeah, but of those 11.

[Alan]

But of those, like, 11 straight points or whatever it was, he wasn't getting burnt on every one of them. Some of them were just literally, you're at the Rucker, just in the zone, chucking it off the window like that's. That's what Bronson was doing.

[Alan Hahn]

Alan was talking about, you know, Kenny's defensive, Harden. Here's what he had to say about the Knicks targeting Harden during the comeback thing about James.

[Knicks Player or Coach]

I'll just defend him. He's a good isolation defender, always has been. He's super smart. I said it last night. He's got great hands. I was kind of a little more upset with our backline Defense, Okay. You know, he hit a couple, two or three really tough shots on him, but then I think the baseline drive where our low guy didn't come over and get a contest. Right. This is team defense at this level. It's team defense. You know, are we, you know, helping them, sending them the right direction, have the help there, so. Sure, we can, we can. I know everybody's putting it on James, but I'd say it's, I'd say it's a lot of. It's on the team, our team defense. And we were great for three quarters, like really, really great. So we can do it. I just think, I think for some of it was him. There was a couple bull buys. But again, I'd argue it was on, you know, that the team defined.

[Peter]

Now they watch film as a team, so I'm sure that's what he saw and what he pointed out. But you can see clearly he's trying to take the pressure off Harden. He's trying to take all the negative negativity because, you know, there's a lot of noise in Cleveland about him and how bad he was in that fourth quarter and in overtime.

[Alan Hahn]

And he also gave his message to Harden after game one.

[Knicks Player or Coach]

I said, without you, we're knocked out in the first round. That's first my book, my personal opinion. So let's just, let's just stop that. We're in a great position.

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

You've.

[Knicks Player or Coach]

You've played great, you know, and, you know, sometimes micro experiences get exaggerated, you know, keep being yourself.

[Alan Hahn]

He's got to be able to keep the player engaged, you know, and he knows they're not going anywhere without him. So I think he's handled this very professionally and we'll see how they respond tonight.

[Peter]

That's exactly what's, that's exactly what I think he's doing is he's just trying to keep his guy up and letting him know, right. That he's, he's got his back. I'll put. I'm protecting you from the media. And that's what he's doing there because he knows he's got to keep him. Right? Because if you start, if you start also ripping on him, if you start saying, oh, he's got to be better, you'll lose him and then you'll, you'll lose this series quickly. So he's hoping to get what you, you know, he's a former mvp. You, what you're trying to get is his bounce back game tonight where he takes over the building where he calls it Madison Square Harden, Right, Right. That's what. That's what Kenny's hoping for tonight is the response to an embarrassing game. Great players usually come back and play a great game, and they're epic. He's 36. Does he still have it in him? Well, we saw he. He had a huge. You know, he had a huge second half, I think, in one of the games against Detroit. We know he can do it. So that's what I think Kenny's hoping for tonight by just stroking his ego a little bit.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, that's what coaching's about. It's not just about what you do, you know, with the game plan and decisions that are made on the floor. And certainly decisions that were made in the second half of that fourth quarter were not good for Kenny. But what also makes him a good coach is moments like this, I've got to be able to keep my players engaged. I'm sure they all felt like a huge gut punch after the way they lost that Game one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But at the end of the day, it's a loss.

[Alan Hahn]

And if they can win tonight, guess what? It's the best of five. They've got home court. As much as it seems improbable from our side of it, the way the

[Peter Rosenberg]

Knicks came back from an emotional standpoint, technically it's one loss.

[Alan Hahn]

And he's got to keep his players engaged, because if they think about blowing the lead, if they think about how they should be up 1 nothing, then it's 2 nothing, and then it's over. So we'll see how they respond.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And maybe Harden has one of those

[Alan Hahn]

nights when we talk to Tim Botems back on Monday, he's like, you know,

[Peter Rosenberg]

Harden's good for one or two of

[Alan Hahn]

these games in a series, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

At some point, we're just going to go mad.

[Alan Hahn]

Now, is it going to be down

[Peter Rosenberg]

three nothing in Game four when it's already over for the gentleman sweep, or is it going to happen tonight where now they got a chance to get off the mat? Because I tell you, the conversation, guys,

[Alan Hahn]

is going to be a lot different tomorrow if the Knicks lose this game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think. I'm not going to say it's going to pop the balloon, but it definitely stifles the momentum. And I don't think Knick fans are

[Alan Hahn]

expecting a loss today.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think most Nick fans are walking

[Alan Hahn]

into that building for a celebration.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sending this team off to Cleveland. Going up to anything other than that,

[Alan Hahn]

I think can be a little disheartening.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not the end of the world, but certainly it could squelch a lot of momentum and have you feeling a little

[Alan Hahn]

bit differently depending on how it goes.

[Alan]

Totally agree. This, this to me is a game that they should, they should really. Again, if you're showing that you are serious that this is not like, oh, we're a team that is going to fight and, and our ceiling is winning the conference finals, which is a great place to go, but don't get me wrong, but not where you're trying to go. If this team is. No, we're going to go battle with San Antonio or OKC and have a real chance at winning a championship. I'm sorry, guys. I think that they don't start slow tonight. I don't think we go into the third quarter with them down 10. I think they beat their ass tonight. Sorry, pardon my French, but that is if. I'm sorry. If you're about that life, you had the nine days off. I'm going to give you a little bit of slack for taking time. The shots weren't going down, the rhythm wasn't there. And then in the end they, and as Alan pointed out, they had that trick in their back pocket. Brunson goes, you know what? We're not doing it the new way. We're going to do it the old way. The old way is great in a pinch when they need it and it works. I promise you. They do not win a championship doing it the old way. To me, Alan, that is just not. You're not as great as Brunson is. You can't live on the man's back every single night. That's not going to be what gets them from this point through San Antonio or Culpa City.

[Peter]

Of course not.

[Alan]

So I really. And you know who. And Cat just has to have a bounce back game tonight. I mean, he was bad. We haven't spent a ton of time killing him.

[Peter]

He finished well. He had seven rebounds in the fourth quarter. He, he.

[Alan]

And he made a few, made a few buckets that he needed. But you can't remove the.

[Peter]

But the fouls were just. Yeah, the fouls were, were including one

[Alan]

that you and I agreed could have been the one that cost them.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Alan]

They're up 4. I mean, they're down 4. They, they cut it from 22 to 4. All the momentum going their way. They, they get the ball back. They're moving down the floor. And a completely needless off the ball offensive foul from Killer from Cat was absolutely killer. He has to have a smarter bounce back game tonight.

[Peter]

And from what I've heard, he actually acknowledged it after the game, like, you know, that, that he thought for sure, like that that would have, that was going to derail the comeback. He was crushed. He was mad at himself for that.

[Alan]

Good. You love to hear.

[Peter]

Yeah, but, but you're right. You're right. But I just, I have to laugh. And I guess it does happen on these runs is no matter what you do, it's always about the next game. And the first time you show us again, guys, it's eight straight games they've won. They're going to lose one. Like, you know, and losing one doesn't change the entire narrative of any chance of winning the series. So I laugh because it's like, they're gonna lose.

[Guest Analyst]

It's gonna happen. I thought it was gonna be game

[Peter]

one, the way they were playing. I'm like, this is the one they'll lose because they're what it felt like. They're not. Right. You know, the rust isn't. The rust is there for sure. They can't make a three. Like, that was in my head. I was watching the Yankees in the third quarter. I did, I left the arena, I went into the, one of this, the studios that's.

[Alan]

So let me see what's going on.

[Peter]

I was like, Yankees are. Let me, let me just watch this. I don't want to watch this thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And again, I don't, I don't, I

[Alan Hahn]

don't have the numbers in front of me. But just watching sports, the way I've watched it my entire life, is that when you see a streak, whatever it is, regular season, postseason, and something crazy happens to extend the streak, I've noticed it's usually the last game of a streak.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, you have some big comeback.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, you win 10 in a row and you came back from five runs down to the ninth. It's like that was the game you're supposed to lose.

[Alan Hahn]

You didn't. So you'll lose the next one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. And in the regular season, like, so What? I've won eight in a row. I don't have to win nine in a row. But the difference between nine, nine in a row and eight in a row is a 11 series or a 20 series.

[Peter]

But it's, it's different in the play. Yeah, I, I, I completely agree, but I do think it's different in the playoffs. The playoffs are just a completely different animal. There is no complacency in the playoffs, not for a team that thinks they can win a championship. You can't possibly have that. So the thought of going into this game tonight where they just. They come in all, like, relaxed about it.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't sense that. I think what they. What they came out of game one

[Peter]

was they got when they shouldn't have,

[Guest Analyst]

and they also were able to get right, like.

[Peter]

Like, yeah, the legs weren't there. I didn't feel right. You could see it. We just weren't right.

[Guest Analyst]

All the players said it, that the time off, you kind of felt it

[Peter]

in the beginning part of the game.

[Guest Analyst]

So that's why part of me is expecting tonight to be the team where

[Peter]

we've been used to seeing the team that plays with that tempo with, you know, with the threes going down at a normal rate.

[Guest Analyst]

That's what I'm interested in.

[Peter]

But I will give you the caveat of the Cavaliers seem to know that offense that they were running with Cat as the hub. They had all the answers. They had all the counters. So did the Knicks see enough on film to be able to adjust to that in one day, or is that going to still be a problem?

[Guest Analyst]

And will they.

[Peter]

Will they have to rely on Brunson to do what he did?

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you know what?

[Alan Hahn]

Because we're all guilty of this just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sometimes you just lose, right?

[Alan Hahn]

You don't lose because you were complacent, or you don't lose because you had a long layoff, or you don't lose because you had a short turnaround.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sometimes you just. The other team is just better that day. You know, like, we can't make excuses. And that's gonna. That's bound to happen. You don't have to win every single

[Alan Hahn]

game to win a championship.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just have to win 16 of them

[Alan Hahn]

and make sure that you don't get

[Peter Rosenberg]

four losses in the same series and

[Alan Hahn]

get knocked out, right? So I know it's been amazing and it's been fun, and they won eight in a row.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that loss is going to come, and it might not come at the

[Alan Hahn]

time you want it to. We'd all like it to be the

[Peter Rosenberg]

gentleman sweep loss, right? Be up three, zero, Cleveland grabs game four. So what? Maybe they'd even be a sense of

[Alan Hahn]

relief if that happened.

[Alan]

Alan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, we got the loss out of the way. Now we. Because we don't want it to happen to game one of the Finals, right? Like, if it's going to happen, let it happen when?

[Peter]

Let it happen in game three. Let it happen in game four.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I think this team has shown us, no matter what the circumstances are

[Alan Hahn]

tonight, whether it's complacency, just get outplayed

[Peter Rosenberg]

the threes aren't falling. Or maybe Harden and Cleveland just pull one right out of their rear end and play out of their mind for 48 minutes and win the game. That it's not the end of the world and it's not the same old Knicks. Because you know what? It's okay. It's okay to lose the game. It's okay to be tied at one. Heck, it ended up being okay in the grand scheme of things, of being down 2:1 to Atlanta. Now, I wouldn't play that game too often, but, oh, no, hey, you don't have to win.

[Alan Hahn]

What would it end up being now?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's eight in a row.

[Alan]

11.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't have to win 15 straight

[Alan Hahn]

games here to win a championship. Okay?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You just have to win.

[Alan Hahn]

You just have to. To win. What is it now? They've got nine.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So seven more.

[Peter]

They got seven to go, you know,

[Peter Rosenberg]

so, you know, I'm saying is, is

[Alan Hahn]

that I don't expect them to lose

[Peter Rosenberg]

tonight, but if they were, I. I do think it'll be a different feel from the fan base, but at the same time, all right, let's. Let's get off the mat.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't want that.

[Knicks Player or Coach]

I.

[Peter]

That's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's.

[Peter]

I think that's what I'm trying to say. Like, let's not do that. Let's not, like, turn it into more than it needs to be. As the caller reminded us, the Cavs did not play a great game. One, they were not good early. They were bad late. They had a pocket in the middle where whatever they did against Detroit, they were in that rhythm of, oh, we know what they're doing. Defensively, the Knicks were trapping. Defensively, it did not work at all. And so that's what was happening in a pocket of the game. But neither team really had to feel good about the film for 48 minutes. No way. And that's. So that's why it's always a series of adjustments. What adjustments are made and can. This Nick offense with Cat is the hub that they really had used so dramatically for seven straight wins.

[Guest Analyst]

Can. Can they find that rhythm? Because you can, as Peter said, and

[Peter]

he's right, I agree.

[Guest Analyst]

This is not.

[Peter]

This can't be Brunson. ISO. Basketball is the only way you're going to win because Brunson will get tired and eventually it'll work against you. You need it when it's necessary. Late in games, clutch moments, you know, we can get our matchups. This guy can do it. He always does it. But not for a whole game. They still have to have other guys involved. They got to get in transition, and that's going to be how they win. That's the formula for them to be a championship team. They've got to be able to figure out what the Cavs were doing to take that away, and I think they will.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Evan Cohen]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

Vientos just made a tie saving grab down the first base line. It's 2 to 1, Mets with the lead. If that gets through. No, I hope not as Peterson's trying to just, you know, there was second and third and nobody out and the national just got the one run as Peterson's kind of been dancing back and forth.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I got a Don't look now.

[Peter]

Boba Shet 9 RBI over the last four games.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I that's the One guy, if

[Alan Hahn]

you remember, I said, I want to give him some time.

[Peter]

I agree.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, I know the team, it's early, all that stuff, but sometimes it takes a player making the move to find it. I was always confident that he would, he'd be better, but Jose tweeted Don legrecka. Can we get an ice pick for game one of the Eastern Conference final? I like Montreal to handle business. I believe the long layoff of the Carolina Hurricanes takes away momentum. And honestly, I like the Habs for the series. Carolina had the easy path in lots strong.

[Peter]

Give me a pick here right now because I, I, I. There's some history here that I'm interested if you know.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, well, you know what?

[Don Hahn]

Ice picks. Ice picks. Ice picks. Ice picks.

[Alan]

Ice picks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ice picks.

[Alan]

I haven't heard this in so long.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know it's been a while.

[Alan]

I'm feeling movement.

[Peter]

Such a good. You know, that's a really good intro too, by the way.

[Alan]

I mean, it ain't.

[Guest Analyst]

What?

[Alan]

It ain't that guy Thursday.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not, but it's a throwback. I love the first time we've used it on Don Han and Rosenberg and we've been on the air for over a year.

[Alan]

No, it's not the first time.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't think we've.

[Alan]

No, you've done a nice pick.

[Alan Hahn]

I've done a nice pick, but I don't think we played the imaging.

[Guest Analyst]

I feel like we have.

[Alan]

We have.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, well, whatever.

[Alan]

But it's been a long time.

[Alan Hahn]

You could have just rolled with it.

[Guest Analyst]

You could have just agree with him. But, you know.

[Alan]

Sorry, sorry.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I thought that was a lot, that guy.

[Alan Hahn]

But if you look at the, the picks that we made at the beginning of the playoffs, I had Abs Habs in the final.

[Peter]

Sure you did.

[Alan Hahn]

Now, I had Montreal beating Ottawa. I didn't have Carolina going this far. Carolina's gray, but they're eight. No, they're going to lose. Right. And there is a history of teams coming off of Game 7, taking on

[Peter Rosenberg]

a team with a long layoff of

[Alan Hahn]

actually playing well in Game 1.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Montreal's played outstanding on the road. They won a Game 7 on the

[Alan Hahn]

road, you know, so I like them to win tonight. So that's my pick. I think you get the money lineup, plus, what was it, 165, 164 or something like that?

[Alan]

What was it?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, on the, on my app of choice, it's164.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay,164.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I would take the, The Habs on the money. Line. And listen, I've got to honor my bracket, right? I had the Habs winning the series,

[Alan Hahn]

so I think Montreal wins the series.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We never. We hardly ever get to see the

[Alan Hahn]

two number ones play each other. Right. And I know Colorado lost last night. I give credit to PK Suban.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He picked Vegas to win the series.

[Alan Hahn]

And they won last night.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really Going away. They had a 3 nothing lead. They scored the first three goals of the game.

[Alan Hahn]

Avalanche made it interesting at 3, 2,

[Peter Rosenberg]

and then Vegas had the empty netter. But I want to check in on

[Alan Hahn]

my guy, Anthony Pusick, because you know how he feels about former Rangers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hi.

[Peter]

Oh, yeah.

[Alan]

That was exceedingly loud. That actually hurt my ear.

[Peter]

That was a very loud.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm sorry to upset you, but you

[Peter Rosenberg]

know, Brett Howden's got nine goals, man.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, how about that, huh?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, how do you feel about

[Alan Hahn]

a former Ranger dominating for Vegas?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And if Vegas were to win the Cup, I mean, he might actually take home a Con Smythe. You don't know that.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, listen, he was one of the guys that never. And Don, you did a lot of those games. He never really panned out here. It didn't look like that was on the horizon for him. Did he have the time to develop? No. And we can go into the song and dance about why they didn't have the opportunity to do that, because they didn't. They weren't in a place to allow a player like him to learn on the third and fourth line to get to where he is, that if he has one more shorthanded goal, he'll actually break the record for most shorthanded goals in a Stanley cup playoff ever.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Alan]

That's a hell of a stat.

[Caller or Guest]

It is a stat. It's an interesting stat. So, no, I have no ill will towards him. I would have liked him to have done it here, but I don't think he ever was that player here. They didn't trade him away thinking he was going to be a crucial piece to a Stanley cup playoff team or a Stanley cup team winning team at any point.

[Alan Hahn]

Brett Howden's best year with the Rangers was in 1920, where he played 70 games, had nine goals, 10 assists, 19 points. 1929 goals.

[Alan]

Well, that's an old ball player.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, hockey.

[Caller or Guest]

He was the best Ranger in that last series with the Knights and Ducks. I'll tell you that.

[Alan Hahn]

That is true. Not. Not Crider, not Truba, not Ruth, not Carrick, not the match or Costanza. So 1920. Oh, you know what I'm saying? 2019. 19. What? I know now you're losing 20, 19.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thank you.

[Alan Hahn]

But that's what makes the playoffs in hockey so great is that, listen, it happens in all sports, especially baseball, where there's a guy that you least likely think will do anything. You know, Mark Lemke jumps to mind back in the day, but, you know, it's really Brett Howden. He's been amazing for them. And then Eichel's been good, too, and their goaltending has been tremendous.

[Caller or Guest]

Dorothy Ev is going to make a lot of money this year.

[Alan Hahn]

Dorothy Ev is going to be great. But you need. You need. It takes a village, right? But just. I don't think anybody had Brett Howden on their bingo card, possibly breaking a record for shorthanded goals and having nine goals already in Vegas's run. And I'm, I'm one of those people, like usually people in the media who. These people can't stand John Tortorella because they've got some story where John was short with them or John called him out or whatever. I like the guy and I root for the guy.

[Peter]

Even though he did what he did with the media, gets mad because of what he did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

After you could like somebody and disagree

[Alan Hahn]

with him and still have a problem with him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was definitely being that guy.

[Peter]

Of course he was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, and he deserved to be

[Alan Hahn]

fined and he deserved to have the pick taken away.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, that just. And this is not all just about

[Alan Hahn]

him not speaking to the media once.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This has been going on and brewing

[Alan Hahn]

for a long time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And let's face it, Vegas, even before John Tortorello, they kind of the way they go about things, as if they're

[Alan Hahn]

kind of above everything, just the way,

[Peter Rosenberg]

just kind of the aura about them. But Torts was wrong.

[Alan Hahn]

You got to open up the room. You got to talk to the media. I don't care if you were mad about the McNabb suspension. I don't care if you felt you were wronged by the media. There are certain rules that have to be followed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't care who you are, how good a coach you are, how good

[Alan Hahn]

a guy you are, and I love torts. But he was wrong and he deserved to get called out. Sorry.

[Peter]

Yeah, yeah. I can't believe it took a while. A second round pick.

[Alan Hahn]

That's incredible.

[Alan]

Well, because it just shows punishment.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What a problem this has been for

[Alan Hahn]

a long time with this team.

[Alan]

So don't don. Deal with some things. Let me ask you a question for a second.

[Peter]

I had a good.

[Alan]

No, no, I think you Should I know?

[Peter]

Did he wave his arms around?

[Alan]

I think you should take the trivia. Wait for a moment.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Alan]

And I have a question for you.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, give me some trivia.

[Alan]

No, no. Well, I have a question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead, ask the question.

[Alan Hahn]

I just thought it's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's going on?

[Alan]

Mitchell Robinson's car.

[Peter]

Oh, wait. All right, let's see. You're going to go off.

[Alan]

I'm going.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm going.

[Alan]

Back.

[Peter]

Away from hockey.

[Alan]

I was going to.

[Peter]

All right.

[Guest Analyst]

Can we stay on hockey?

[Alan Hahn]

If you need to.

[Guest Analyst]

First things first.

[Peter]

The Islanders have named their new affiliate in Hamilton. It is a glorious nickname.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter]

They are the Hamilton Hammers.

[Richard from Manhattan]

Okay.

[Peter]

I mean, come on.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter]

The Hammers.

[Alan]

The Hammers we were talking about yesterday. Like, you know what?

[Guest Analyst]

But, I mean, it's a Long island

[Peter]

franchise, so shouldn't it be the Hammers? It's the Hammers.

[Alan]

Was that the trivia?

[Guest Analyst]

No, it's just.

[Peter]

I'm trying to buy time for Donnie.

[Alan]

No, I'm here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm just trying.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm wiping down what is now a very clean board because it's you.

[Guest Analyst]

You and Bart Scott.

[Alan Hahn]

I had a full, I mean, absolutely full cup of water.

[Alan]

This is. I really wish we would just move on to Mitchell Robinson's truck.

[Peter]

Why did we even.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, so give me trivia.

[Peter]

All right, trivia. Here you go. Hurricanes have been in the Eastern Conference finals, let me see, six times. This is their seventh appearance, correct?

[Alan Hahn]

Seven. So you got 020609.

[Peter]

Come on, come on. Three more. You can do it.

[Alan Hahn]

020609. They had one recently.

[Peter]

Well, they've had three recently.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't remember.

[Alan]

Alan, can I ask you a question? I don't want you to get mad at me. Who is this trivia for? I mean, Don. I know, but who else on earth would care?

[Guest Analyst]

Because he made a pick, and I

[Peter]

want to let him know something.

[Guest Analyst]

It goes with the pick.

[Alan]

Okay.

[Guest Analyst]

All right, fine.

[Peter]

He was the one.

[Guest Analyst]

Name.

[Peter]

I didn't even name it.

[Guest Analyst]

2019.

[Peter]

2023 and 2025. Right.

[Alan]

Okay.

[Peter]

Okay. Okay.

[Alan]

Okay.

[Peter]

Here we go. Okay.

[Guest Analyst]

How many of those have they.

[Peter]

How many times have they won game one? Don.

[Alan]

Oh, now, related to the pick.

[Alan Hahn]

How many times have they won game one?

[Peter]

Yeah, he can't remember that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're going to be guessing. I'm trying to.

[Peter]

It's six times. Just take a guess.

[Peter Rosenberg]

None.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

Crazy, right?

[Peter]

So your pick is a very smart pick based on history.

[Alan]

You know, Machabel never won game one.

[Alan Hahn]

Good for you.

[Alan]

And Don didn't even.

[Guest Analyst]

Johnny Laz, our good friend Johnny Laz

[Peter]

had this tweet that really caught my attention. They're 06 in game one of the Eastern Conference finals. Every single time they've played, they've lost the first game.

[Alan Hahn]

That is pretty incredible, isn't it? Now, they. They did go to the final in 06 and won the Cup. Did go to the final in O2 and lost to the Red Wings in five. That was a Paul Maurice in oh two.

[Peter]

That is correct.

[Alan Hahn]

And with our friend Peter Laviolet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

6. But yeah, that's. That's. That's a great staff from last.

[Peter]

There you go.

[Alan Hahn]

But yet. So that begins tonight from Carolina, 11 days off. So we'll see if there's going to be some rust and I don't know. Listen, from a. From a rating standpoint, it would have been nice to get Buffalo to make it to the conference final because the ratings are just incredible.

[Peter]

Yep.

[Alan Hahn]

With the Sabers being in it for the first time in forever. And it's such a great hockey town. And now you go from the great ratings to now not having a local. Because we're not going to take the Canadiens ratings. But it's always good to get an original six team. I. I like it when a Canadian team makes a run, especially an historic team like Montreal. So it should. It should be a lot of fun.

[Peter]

I'm already St. Louis. Love Marty St. Louis.

[Alan Hahn]

Marty St. Louis is such an amazing story. You know, undrafted player makes it into, you know, a Hall of Fame career. And then he was coaching youth hockey in Connecticut. He was. And of course, Ranger fans have a warm place in their heart for him. And yes. In that run in 2014, and how special he was and his mom, you know, dying on, of all days, Mother's Day. And they come back from three, one down against Pittsburgh.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's.

[Alan Hahn]

He's definitely a part of the fabric of, of local hockey, for sure. And he stayed in the area and as you said, coaching in Connecticut before he took the job, Montreal. And I'm telling you, you get.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You gotta. You don't necessarily have to be French

[Alan Hahn]

Canadian to be the coach of the, of the Canadiens, but you got to speak French.

[Peter]

That would help.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You have to. Well, and so when you are a

[Alan Hahn]

French Canadian and the, the pressure that you have to go out there and win, and it's been a long time, man. 1993, not only the last time the

[Peter Rosenberg]

Canadians won a Cup, last time any

[Alan Hahn]

team from Canada has won a Cup. So pretty incredible stuff. So that's going to be my ice Pick. I like the habs on the Money Line tonight. Let's go to Richard in Manhattan. You're on espn.

[Peter]

Peter wanted to ask me about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, he loves.

[Alan Hahn]

He loves Richard, so I think Richard.

[Richard from Manhattan]

All right, well, give me your one, two treat. Jalen Brunson, Allen Iverson, Earl Monroe.

[Alan]

Oh, I didn't watch enough Earl the Pearl. But for me, as great as Jalen

[Peter Rosenberg]

Brunson has been, based on sample size,

[Alan]

he's not surpassing Allen Iverson.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

So Brunson's three and Iverson.

[Bucked Up Advertiser]

All right.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Richard from Manhattan]

All right. Greatest New York acquisitions. Brunson is not in there. In basketball, it's 1, 2, 3, any way you want. The Busha. Dr. J. Jason Kidd. I would put Jalen four there. Baseball, of course. Reggie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, you can't Reggie four. If he wins right now, he's four.

[Richard from Manhattan]

Who would you put Jalen Brunson over?

[Alan]

Kid. Kid?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What kid? They went to back to back finals and lost. If Brunson wins, he's over Kidd.

[Richard from Manhattan]

I don't know what kid did those two years. I've never seen ever done in New York carry a team and create such excitement. In my opinion, Don, with all respect and of course, Dr. And the bus, the Buescher, and by the way, any conversation without the Bulcher in the top three Knicks is not correct, okay? That's my opinion.

[Alan]

We know how you feel about the Busher. You have Jordan 1, the Butcher 2. We've heard it before. We know. All right.

[Richard from Manhattan]

Baseball. Baseball. I would go with Reggie and Roger Maris.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Richard from Manhattan]

Positions. Hockey. A tie. Butch and Mark Messier. I couldn't put one above the other. Football's kind of tough and it's a big chasm between the two. I would put ya at one. And Curtis Martinet too. Now, Islander, have you ever asked Clyde which team did he think was better, the 70 or the 73 team? Did he ever ask him.

[Peter]

I think his 73 team, he always talks about it being the smartest team that he thinks ever played the game.

[Richard from Manhattan]

I will compare the Nick present team to the 73 team. Alvarado is Memminger. Deuce and Chamet are Henry Bibby, Shamet. Okay. Mitchell Robinson's John Jannelli. Josh Hart is Phil Jackson. Jackson was that huge with that team. He might have been their MVP of that 73 team. He was great. The series before they beat the Lakers. He battled Silas Cowans and Don Nelson. He was great. He was the first great knick6 man, if you ask me. Townes is Jerry Lucas. Brunson is Earl of Course, Anunabi is Ezeka Busha. And lastly, Mikhail Bridges is Bill Bradley. Obviously, no Frazier and no re on those teams. Now, last question, fellas. If the Knicks lose to Cleveland, is this the worst playoff loss in Nick history?

[Alan Hahn]

I would have to think it is. I mean, obviously the Pacers last year was bad, but with the expectations.

[Peter]

Guys, ask the question again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was, would this be the worst series?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter]

If they lose this series, would it be the worst loss in the history?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter]

No, no, no.

[Alan Hahn]

I think it would.

[Peter]

The 94 finals is the worst loss in Nick history.

[Guest Analyst]

They were up three, two.

[Alan Hahn]

I get it.

[Guest Analyst]

They were in game seven. But no, no, that's the worst loss in Nick's history. The worst.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, listen, everybody's entitled to their opinion.

[Guest Analyst]

It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That is the worst.

[Guest Analyst]

It is a Game seven NBA Finals. You were up three, two in the series. You lost the series. That's the worst loss in franchise history.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Rocket team. It was done better than this cavalry team.

[Peter]

Done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Done playing the semantics of semantics.

[Guest Analyst]

It's reality.

[Alan]

You were that close to a championship.

[Guest Analyst]

You were winning the game in Game 6. You were winning the game. The series was over.

[Alan]

He's very.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't care.

[Guest Analyst]

There's no other.

[Peter]

There's no other.

[Guest Analyst]

There's no other comparison. Don't make me. I'll take a subway. I'll go right downtown right now.

[Alan Hahn]

I'd welcome it.

[Guest Analyst]

Get right in your face. There's no comparison to losing that game. You can't compare losing game seven in the Finals. Anything else.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a better not right?

[Peter]

Because.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. The drop the mic moment just can't be. Oh, because it's in the Finals. Because this Cavs team. If you don't get to that Houston

[Marriott Bonvoy Advertiser]

to a Finals, who cares?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no.

[Alan]

But the Houston team was so much better than this Cavs.

[Marriott Bonvoy Advertiser]

Ridiculous.

[Peter]

Ridiculous one.

[Alan]

For God's sake, you're losing the. Donovan Mitchell and the Cavs. All due respect, but it's not the same thing.

[Guest Analyst]

You were up.

[Peter]

You were the better team. You were up 3, 2 in the series. You were a better team. You were the better team.

[Guest Analyst]

You were winning game six.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But part of is the expectation of. You are so much better than the Cavs. It would be a colossal upset for the Cavs to beat you. So you just can't have.

[Peter]

What are the odds? What are the odds? It's colossal. Going into the series. Going into the series. What were the odds?

[Alan]

I don't think it was colossal, Anthony. What were the odds?

[Guest Analyst]

For it's also the conference, it's the conference finals.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I understand, but it's also the conference. I get it's the conference final. For the right to go to the final. You were a dog going into Houston. It's a team that won a championship. The next year, this Cavaliers team, not winning a championship, even if they found a way to beat the Knicks, if something happened and the Knicks had a bunch of injuries and the Cavs won, they get pulverized by either the spurs or the Thunder. The Rockets were a great team that went on to win the title. The very next year you lost to a great team, you would be losing to a good basketball team, not an all time great team. That has to be part of the conversation too. Not just the fact that oh, it's

[Peter]

because it's all encompassing. But don't worst loss is all encompassing. It is not just, it's not who you played. It can't just be who you played. It can't be in the moment.

[Guest Analyst]

It's all encompassing. It's the fact that you, that was your greatest chance to win a championship and you didn't. And you had the advantage.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't have the advantage now.

[Peter]

You were up 3, 2 in the finals.

[Guest Analyst]

This is the conference finals.

[Alan Hahn]

I, I, I understand it's all encompassing.

[Guest Analyst]

But you can use the, that series you had it to win. That was your shot. There was no Michael Jordan. That was it.

[Alan]

I can see both arguments. Allen's. It's the more painful loss.

[Guest Analyst]

But it's also what again by definition of worst loss, meaning the impact it had, the loss had. Pat Riley was gone the year later. Like that was your best chance in the last 53 years. That's what makes it the worst.

[Alan]

But how do you know what happens after this?

[Peter]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

And you're using history to try to back it up at that moment you

[Peter Rosenberg]

lost to a team that was better than you.

[Peter]

Oh that, that team was not better than you.

[Guest Analyst]

You were up 3 to 2 in the series.

[Alan]

But being up 3 to 2 doesn't mean that you're not, that they're not better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Then I guess the Cavs must look

[Alan Hahn]

like and go, we were, we were

[Peter Rosenberg]

better than the Knicks. We had a 22 point lead.

[Peter]

Well if no, no, no, that's in. You didn't finish the game though.

[Guest Analyst]

You have to win the game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, you didn't finish the series.

[Guest Analyst]

Again, it's a game, not a series.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Three. But it's still.

[Peter]

No, no, I, I, you now you're just, you're having fun with Me now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm not having fun. I really believe this.

[Guest Analyst]

There's no way you believe a game and a series are the same damn thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm telling you.

[Guest Analyst]

No ch. No way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You walked away disappointed. You lost the Rockets because you have won a championship since 1973. But you fought hard.

[Guest Analyst]

You are trying to win.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can't win. You are trying to win it. You can't win. Alan, stop it. You're way better than the Cavaliers.

[Alan]

They're minus 265 to win the series against Cavs.

[Guest Analyst]

Stop it. That 94 they lost.

[Peter]

This series remains the worst loss in

[Peter Rosenberg]

the history of the Knicks franchise.

[Guest Analyst]

How could you say that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Finals.

[Guest Analyst]

It doesn't make sense.

[Alan]

The Rockets were minus 220 to beat the Knicks. The Knicks are minus 265 to beat.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Come on.

[Guest Analyst]

Wait, wait. 220. 265.

[Peter]

That's dramatic.

[Alan]

The Houston was favored. They were minus 220 against the Knicks. The Knicks are a bigger favorite against

[Guest Analyst]

the Cavs at minus 265 in the conference finals.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that shouldn't matter.

[Guest Analyst]

It does matter.

[Alan Hahn]

This is.

[Guest Analyst]

You know, Wait, no, no, no, no. Because we're not talking about just winning a damn series.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're talking about winning a chance of the damn series. It's conference final.

[Guest Analyst]

If you win this series, there are zero guarantees you will not be the favorite to win a championship this year. When you're up three, two in a series for the finals, you are now the favorite to win.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Evan Cohen]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now. I was too young to remember the

[Alan Hahn]

ins and outs of this. I was only five.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But the Mets lost to the Oakland A's in 1973 in seven games, blowing

[Alan Hahn]

a 32 series lead in the process.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're telling me that that's a worse

[Alan Hahn]

loss than when they lost to the

[Peter Rosenberg]

Dodgers in the league championship series in 88, having beat them 10 out of

[Alan Hahn]

11 times during the regular season. Being the better team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Gibson getting hurt late in the series? No way. The Dodger loss is a lot worse. It's not disqualified because it's the league Championship Series and the A's Mets were in the World series.

[Peter]

Context. Context, don.

[Guest Analyst]

88 happened after what was before.

[Peter]

Thank you.

[Guest Analyst]

Already had a ring. Already had a championship already in their pocket.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you are that's what makes that bad, is it?

[Guest Analyst]

Because that group should have done more

[Peter Rosenberg]

and didn't and you're so it's a

[Guest Analyst]

different context and 94 was the only freaking time you had a real chance to win a championship. That was it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But. But context is the fact that you were an underdog, a significant underdog going into the Houston series. Yes, you had a 3, 2 series lead, but against what the odds makers believe was a superior team, you are now the superior team. You are way better than the Cleveland Cavaliers. You've won eight consecutive playoff games, the most in franchise history. For the right to go to the final for the first time since 1999, you're already up one nothing. If you lost this series, I'm sorry, it'd be a lot worse than losing in the final in 94, including 99. Why would you include 99?

[Peter]

Because it would.

[Guest Analyst]

Because again, you had injuries. Context on context would be. Also if you end up losing, I hate to the first of all, I can't stand the negativity of if you lose, I can't stand that. But I'll play the game because you want to fight. And I'm telling you context is what matters.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm not fighting.

[Alan Hahn]

Want to do a show?

[Guest Analyst]

No. You wanted to fight. You started this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You wanted to fight against, concede. When I believe I'm right, that's fine.

[Guest Analyst]

And I'm telling you that it's not correct because of context. If you don't get out of this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't really need the condescending I'm wrong when we can debate. There's it's opinion back and forth. It's a back and forth. You don't. You're not right because you claim to be right.

[Guest Analyst]

I'm right because I'm telling you why. Because there's context to this. They don't get out of this series. They were never good enough to win a championship.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How. It's not a debate. I mean, the whole city starts assuming they're going to the final.

[Alan]

It started as a debate. I mean, you can think what you want of Richard, but it started with Richard saying that he thought this would be the worst loss of all time for the Knights.

[Peter]

And I explained why it's not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's condescending.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't care what it is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, but this is why you believe it's not right.

[Alan]

This is why you believe it's not the case.

[Guest Analyst]

I'm telling you the context of it is if they, if, if there's something crazy happens in this series, ends up with a loss, the context to it is something must have happened. First of all, that you could say, well, that happened. But second of all is that they were never good enough to win a championship. That's the point. They were never good enough. The Mets, we knew were good enough because they just did it.

[Alan]

But we're not. But Don was using that as a different example. The direct.

[Guest Analyst]

He was talking about the fact that

[Peter]

it was the NLCS and not the World Series versus.

[Guest Analyst]

What I'm saying is in the NBA Finals. It's important. I'm trying to tell you. But you're not convincing. All right.

[Peter]

Tell you what?

[Guest Analyst]

I'm sorry if I'm saying you're wrong. What I'm saying is you're not convincing

[Peter]

me

[Peter Rosenberg]

what you feel.

[Guest Analyst]

That's what I'm saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I believe that you're kind of disregarding

[Alan Hahn]

this because it's not the final.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I'm telling you it doesn't have to be the final when you've got a whole city believing that this team is going to cruise past Cleveland because there's so much better.

[Guest Analyst]

But I don't think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Context. You were not better than the Rockets, Alan. You weren't. You had a three two series lead, but the fourth one's the harder to get. You were a huge dog in that series. And you know what? This team's better than 94. It's a better team. Patrick might have been in his prime, but I'm sorry, you were only there because Jordan retired. This is a Knicks team that is better than the 94 team in my estimation. And to lose to the Cavaliers would be inexpensive. Excusable. Is it? When it. Was it inexcusable to lose to the Rockets?

[Peter]

Up three, two.

[Guest Analyst]

With a fingertip that stopped you from winning game six. A fingertip, Don. A fingertip stopped you from winning game six.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Six sevens in Houston, man. I understand it's three, two, but come on.

[Guest Analyst]

I am. I am going on. And again, when you talk about. Because, see, when you say worst of in franchise history, it's all encompassing, right? You have to understand it. It is not in the moment. It is in the hundred years of basketball.

[Alan]

But if you say that, then we can't. So you're using the argument because we don't know what the history will be after this series.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You fired your coach because you couldn't get past the third round. You bring in a new coach only to lose again to an inferior team. This team's not as good as the Pacers last year.

[Guest Analyst]

I'm going with what I keep saying. Is that in the context of franchise

[Peter]

history, which is what we're saying, the

[Guest Analyst]

worst in franchise history.

[Peter]

How can it not Be.

[Guest Analyst]

When you were that close in 94, that was your chance.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're only close whether you were, whether

[Guest Analyst]

you were not the favorite going into the series, it doesn't matter. In the moment, you had the probability on your side, Game six, to win and have your championship. It was done. The champagne was there, man. I know the story. I know everything about it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you still gotta do it.

[Guest Analyst]

You never got closer since I'm sure

[Peter Rosenberg]

you were an underdog going into game seven.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, seven in Houston going into seven. I'm talking about six.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, even going into game six, you were a dog there, too, because you were in Houston.

[Guest Analyst]

Quick, understand.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Lou in Nashville, espn, New York.

[Alan Hahn]

I want to get a call in on this. Go ahead, Louis.

[P]

Hey, I totally. Well, there's a couple things here. One of them is that I, I have a hard time saying that the worst win, the worst loss is anything but a final. To me, the final matters. If you have a chance to win the championship and you, you're rolling and you lose, that's, that's, to me, the worst win. I mean, the worst loss.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you're, you're an underdog in the series. You are, you are, you are. It doesn't matter. Well, how does it not matter? I'm. You guys, honestly, I, I, I just lose to the Cavaliers. It would be an embarrassment.

[Guest Analyst]

Well, embarrassment's different.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's part of it. You, you embarrassingly on you. You did not embarrass yourself last year. Houston Rocket.

[Guest Analyst]

Last year was. Last year was embarrassing, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But this would be worse because the Pacers were better.

[Alan]

Well, and, and you can't now remove. If part of the factor here is obviously emotion and what, and bad loss. What it means when you say worst.

[Guest Analyst]

Worst is there's emotion. That is, that's why I said it's all encompassing.

[Alan]

Well, so, but so real quick, though, won't. The fact that they've gone on this run, that they've gone on that's electrified the city. If they then went on to lose

[Peter]

the next four games to the Cavs again.

[Guest Analyst]

I'm sorry, I'm going back again. The Rangers won the Cup. The Knicks won game five. They were up 3, 2. You talk about electrifying a city. They were anticipating it. They almost held up the Ranger parade because they're like, yeah, we're gonna have another one real soon. Why don't we do them both together? Because we know this team's gonna win. You gotta remember the time I was in it. I was, I was not knee deep. I was all the way up to

[Peter]

the top of my head in this thing.

[Guest Analyst]

So I know what that was like. That was devastating, that loss. I'm not kidding. This devastating.

[Alan Hahn]

This would be worse. This would be far worse.

[Guest Analyst]

You're not convincing me. Because I don't. I can't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can't.

[Guest Analyst]

The emotion after that loss.

[Alan Hahn]

You were a dog.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course. I'm not saying it's not. Of course it is. You lost the Game seven. But this is a team that you should be able to stomp.

[Alan]

We got a breaking it.

[Peter]

I need to know how it happens

[Guest Analyst]

because I don't know how else it

[Peter]

happens other than something really bad happening in this series that I don't want to say out loud.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the

[Peter]

sausage is made, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just want to know.

[Peter]

It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Here go we more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

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