Hour 3: Happy Birthday Awful Song?

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg

Episode: Hour 3: Happy Birthday Awful Song?
Original Air Date: July 23, 2026
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Theme: Dissecting “Happy Birthday” as the world’s most famous (and least-liked) song, debating birthday song alternatives, a deep dive into which “iconic” tunes are truly beloved, and a discussion about how the NBA rewards winning (or losing) from a player’s perspective, with New York sports flavor throughout.

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Episode Overview

This lively and humorous hour bounces between music and sports, centering on a critical—and often comedic—examination of the "Happy Birthday" song. The hosts and callers dig into why so many people hate it, what other birthday songs actually “work,” and unlock a top 10 list of universally recognized English-language songs. The second half shifts focus to recent NBA discussions around rewarding winners vs. individual performance, with plenty of New York Knicks speculation and league-wide implications.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Happy Birthday” Song: Why So Awful? (00:45–09:04)

• Stevie Wonder’s “Happy Birthday” Backstory

  • Peter Rosenberg shares how Stevie Wonder’s version was crafted to push for Martin Luther King Jr.’s birthday as a national holiday, not for personal celebrations (00:45).
    • “That song, you also had a dream. [...] It was created to fight to get [MLK’s] birthday to be a national holiday.” — Rosenberg (01:00)
  • Don Hahn admits he had no idea about the song’s original intent (01:10).

• Birthday Songs That Actually Stick

  • The team debates if there are really only two or three popular birthday songs:
    1. The traditional “Happy Birthday”
    2. Stevie Wonder’s “Happy Birthday”
    3. The Beatles’ “Birthday” (01:20–03:28)
  • Discussion turns to the cultural specificity:
    • “The default version is the Stevie Wonder version, if you know.” — Rosenberg (02:19)
    • Hahn insists that Beatles’ “Birthday” also belongs on the list, though Rosenberg calls it “a distant third.” (03:45)

• Why the Classic “Happy Birthday” is Painful

  • Rosenberg: “There’s nothing worse than the birthday song” (04:16)
  • The crew riffs on how the happy occasion is set to “a funeral song,” noting its grim tone—especially when sung by adults (04:19–06:08):
    • “You could be singing about a pet dying for the tune.” — Rosenberg (05:01)
    • Hahn opines it “was never meant to be sung by adults in an office for a 47-year-old.” (05:48)
  • Children’s voices are the only redeeming aspect, but even then “it’s a cheat code” (05:34).

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2. Which Songs Are Truly Universally Known? (06:29–22:25)

• Guinness Book: What’s #2 After “Happy Birthday”?

  • Peter Rosenberg quizzes the crew—none guess correctly.
  • Answer: “For He’s a Jolly Good Fellow,” which the host deems far superior to “Happy Birthday” (08:28–08:50).
    • “Way better than the birthday song, but not great. At least it’s a fellow.” — Rosenberg (08:41)
  • “Ring Around the Rosie” and “Old MacDonald Had a Farm” are thrown out as contenders (09:09).
    • Hahn recounts that Frank Sinatra once made a hit out of “Old MacDonald” as a bet (09:19–09:34).

• Listener Calls Add to the Debate

  • Listeners weigh in, agreeing that the Stevie Wonder birthday song reigns at parties; Beatles, not so much (11:09–11:32).

• The History & Origins of “Happy Birthday”

  • Song credits: Patty and Mildred Hill, 1893; the most recognized English song according to Guinness (12:04–12:08).

• Top 10 Most Recognized English Songs (19:44–22:25)

  • Peter Rosenberg (reading from “Claude Clark,” likely a chatbot) lists:

    1. Happy Birthday to You
    2. Auld Lang Syne (“the fakacta New Year song”)
    3. Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star
    4. For He’s a Jolly Good Fellow
    5. Star Spangled Banner
    6. Amazing Grace
    7. Yankee Doodle
    8. Row, Row, Row Your Boat
    9. Silent Night
    10. White Christmas

  • Side quips: “Yankee Doodle —terrible lyrics, if we’re being honest. A joke. Not exactly Biggie Smalls.” — Rosenberg (20:56)

    • Notable moment: Laughter as Rosenberg comments, “How is [Row, Row, Row Your Boat] behind these?” and the panel weighs which children’s songs deserve a place (21:12–21:42).

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3. Music Trivia—Biggest-Selling Records (15:04–17:14)

• Peter Rosenberg reveals the best-selling single since the 1950s: Elton John’s “Candle in the Wind” (16:24–17:14).
  • “You have this huge British star mourning princess. It makes perfect sense that it would be a gigantic song. It’s just not what you would ever think of being the biggest single of decades.” — Rosenberg (17:24)
• Discussion on how the song originated for Marilyn Monroe, but became a superhit after Princess Diana’s death (37:14–37:27).

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4. NBA Talk: Is “Winning” Over-Rewarded? (26:09–36:48)

• Hosts dissect recent comments by Knicks player Deuce McBride about how the NBA “rewards losing” by paying players who haven’t won big (26:19–30:12):
  • “I think the NBA has got to do a better job of rewarding winning, guys that impact the game.” — Deuce McBride (26:24)
• Don and Peter debate the fairness of rewarding only players on winning teams:
  • “That sounds like it’s coming from a guy that just won, honestly.” — Don Hahn (28:29)
  • “There’s never a way to adequately pay people around championships, Don, unless they’re the best player on the team and responsible for championships.” — Rosenberg (29:39)
• Panel explores alternate timelines (e.g., would Derek Jeter be considered “clutch” if he played for the Reds?) and notes role players are often at the mercy of circumstance (34:12–36:48).

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5. NBA Parity and Player Legacy in Modern Era (41:00–47:41)

• Don Hahn notes there have been eight different NBA champions in eight years—making accusations of “failure” even harsher for stars who can’t win:
  • “If you're a great player in the NBA during this era and you don't win, it's going to reflect even worse on you, right?” — Don Hahn (41:19)
  • Rosenberg calls this shift “an interesting thought I never really conceived of” (41:19).
• Discussion about next year’s favorites—the Spurs and Thunder (44:50–46:43), how experience impacts finals matchups, and how “it’s going to be tough for the Knicks to repeat” (46:43).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s nothing worse than the birthday song.” — Peter Rosenberg (04:16)
• “You could be singing about a pet dying for the tune.” — Peter Rosenberg (05:01)
• “For He’s a Jolly Good Fellow—way better than the birthday song, but not great.” — Peter Rosenberg (08:41)
• “You know how insane it is to make a new birthday song and have it stick? It’s the only other one.” — Rosenberg, on Stevie Wonder’s cultural impact (01:21)
• “Yankee Doodle—terrible lyrics, if we’re being honest. A joke.” — Rosenberg (21:04)
• “That sounds like it’s coming from a guy that just won, honestly.” — Don Hahn, critiquing Deuce McBride’s ‘rewarding winners’ stance (28:29)
• “There’s never a way to adequately pay people around championships, Don, unless they’re the best player on the team and responsible for championships.” — Rosenberg (29:39)
• “If you're a great player in the NBA during this era and you don't win, it's going to reflect even worse on you, right?” — Hahn (41:19)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:45–09:04 — Birthday songs: why “Happy Birthday” is so bad and what other tunes compete
• 09:12–10:02 — Children’s songs in pop culture (“Old MacDonald,” “Ring Around the Rosie”)
• 15:04–17:14 — Big-selling songs; “Candle in the Wind” trivia
• 19:44–22:25 — Top 10 most recognized English-language songs
• 26:09–30:44 — Deuce McBride’s comments; NBA rewarding (or not) winners
• 34:12–36:48 — “Right place, right time”—Are some stars just lucky?
• 41:00–42:48 — NBA parity: Does it harm or help legacies?
• 44:50–47:41 — The road ahead for Knicks, Spurs, Thunder; difficulty of repeating

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Tone & Style

• Classic Don, Hahn & Rosenberg: high-energy, bantering, culturally savvy, blending deep-dive sports analysis with irreverent humor.
• Fair mix of insightful critique and comedic asides ("not exactly Biggie Smalls" for "Yankee Doodle"; affectionate barbs about the “fakacta New Year song”).
• True to their New York roots, candid and contrarian, never above poking fun at tradition—especially if it involves sports, music, or (often) both.

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Transcript

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, when you're locked in, focused and fearless. Welcome to the wnba. Your vision narrows. You can't look away. Every assist, every stop, every logo. Three from beyond the logo, every. Did you see that moment? You bet.

[Don Hahn]

What records are going to be broken this season?

[Peter Rosenberg]

All of it. Right here. Lock in. It's the WNBA on ESPN all season long.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

This is the document. Han Han at Rosenberg Podcast.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a song from Martin Luther King, but I'll.

[Don Hahn]

I'll borrow it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thank you. That song, you also had a dream. Yeah, I mean, you know, Sweet Boat.

[Don Hahn]

We love that dream.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Martin had a dream. A lot of people. Do you think most people know that that song was.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You didn't know?

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That that song was made by Stevie Wonder.

[Don Hahn]

I knew it was Stevie Wonder. I didn't know was for Martin Luther King.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh. It was created to fight to get his birthday to be a national holiday.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't know that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Caller/Guest]

I thought he made it for this station to do birthdays. Because that's always.

[Don Hahn]

No, I mean you always hear the birthday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a good point by you. No, yeah, that was.

[Don Hahn]

That was interesting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Part of the pushing for the national holiday. Because I don't know if you know, but we live in America, so there are always people who are fighting against it. There are people who thought, no, we don't need this. So that was part of the, like the push. Stevie Wonder jumped in and said, that's not nobody. Well, and not only this, you know how insane it is to make a new birthday song and have it stick. It's the only other one.

[Don Hahn]

Well, and then there's the Beatles one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Which one's that?

[Caller/Guest]

I played it earlier. Birthday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, no. Today is your birthday. Yeah, but people don't do sing it.

[Don Hahn]

No, just take the L. No, people sing it. No, you could take the L. People sing that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You've been to a party where people go, today it's.

[Don Hahn]

They say it's your birthday, but they play it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, but they don't sing it.

[Don Hahn]

Well, how many people sing this?

[Peter Rosenberg]

People. Black people sing that. Jacob, you're not going there. And we go. You'd be at a party. And now we do the black version. And when you sing the version.

[Guest Commentator]

That's the one.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

It's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's song. The Beatles one is big. No, but, but I mean, it's not sung. Yeah. The default version is the Stevie Wonder Version, if you know, version is the Stevie. Is the Stevie version.

[Don Hahn]

But okay, the Beatles one is a big song, but it's a big song. But it's also.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's. What's that one called?

[Don Hahn]

The Happy Birthday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's called Happy Birthday.

[Don Hahn]

But he just played it. He played it earlier and it was big.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I knew it probably wouldn't you hear

[Don Hahn]

it, but you might. Didn't even notice it. Because it gets played during birthdays. It may not be as singable.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just think of it as more of a song more than I.

[Don Hahn]

And there are people who sing that. But it's definitely. It's played for birthdays. So there's like three birthdays either way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, fine. I'll include the Beatles, too. For Chris. Did God write a song also?

[Don Hahn]

My point is, he's the highest I'm gonna be on. Listen, I don't want to turn this into an E. Oh, God. But when you said there's only two, that was wrong. There's three. Whether it's sung or not, these are the three songs that get played that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, fair. That is fair.

[Don Hahn]

I think you forgot about. I did the Beatle one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I don't really. Because I don't. I guess I think of it almost to their credit as not just being a version of singing Happy Birthday. I think of it just as a song. But you're right, it is a birthday song.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And it was played earlier for your birthday and you didn't think twice about it because it always gets played at everybody's birthday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know if. I don't know if I'd say he gets played everybody's birthday. I'm calling it a distant third. How about that?

[Don Hahn]

But they all bring something to the table. Okay. Yeah. That's true. And no one else served a purpose that was bigger than just a birthday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay. That's right.

[Don Hahn]

And it's sung by people. And then you've got the Beatles, which was actually a hit, but also gets played at birthday. The bogus one is the Happy Birthday song. Because there is no song. All you know is people singing it. It's on the radio.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's nothing worse than the birthday song.

[Don Hahn]

Well, think about it. The Beatles and Stevie Wonder did a Happy Birthday song that sounds nothing like the Happy Birthday song.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's just.

[Don Hahn]

They wanted people to like it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's just agree if you want to know why we suck. Why we? Why do we suck?

[Don Hahn]

As people?

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

As talk show hosts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, no. Americans. Why are we so boring? Yeah. Why are we. Where Are we lacking culture? Is it just soccer? No, it's our birthday song. It's a disgrace.

[Caller/Guest]

It's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why is the birthday song sound like a funeral song? It's a horrible song. When you hear people singing it, it doesn't feel happy.

[Don Hahn]

I understand, but it's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it's happy birthday to you. You could be singing about a pet dying for the tune.

[Don Hahn]

When adults do. When kids do it, it is nice. You hear five, six year old kids singing it, it's joyous, it's fun. And then when they go, are you one? Are you two?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, are you one? Are you 2? Is a different thing. That helps. But what you just said is the sound of children is beautiful. Yes, I agree with you. But they could be singing a Nazi

[Don Hahn]

war chant and you go oh, wait a minute.

[Peter Rosenberg]

My point is the point of you adding the kids singing part as a cheat code.

[Don Hahn]

Could you dump a non swear?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It doesn't need to be.

[Caller/Guest]

I didn't dump it. I don't know why it was said,

[Peter Rosenberg]

but my point is that using the kids isn't what makes it nice.

[Don Hahn]

No, but it was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean it's a cheat.

[Don Hahn]

Cheat code.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The tune sucks.

[Don Hahn]

No, but the tune. And again, I don't know this for a fact, but my feeling is the tune was never meant to be sung by adults in an office party for a 47 year old. That's when it sounds like Happy birthday. Because it sounds like a death march. Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

However, I want to find out the origins.

[Don Hahn]

But if the origin was. Let's create a song that's easy for kids to sing, to remember the words, and no one should ever sing it after the age of 10. Then it's a joyous, fun song. But like everything else, it's commandeered by the adults and in a bunch of yo yos at an office party.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because here you go.

[Don Hahn]

I want the whole story.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Alright, I got it for you. Happy birthday to you. Or simply Happy Birthday is an American song. See, by the way, I was guessing. Unfortunately I'm right. It was American. Traditionally sung to celebrate a person's birthday. According to to the Guinness Book of World Records, it is the most recognized song in the English language. Followed by Want to guess? I will give you a smack right on the derriere if you can get me. Get guess it right. Anyone here? If any of you and you know it, we all know it. We all. We all know it.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just gonna go by the song

[Peter Rosenberg]

and don't look it up either.

[Don Hahn]

No, I'm not looking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You could Say, I know you won't.

[Don Hahn]

Just going by the songs that my kids would sing, I would think Ring around the Rosie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, that's a very good guess, Anthony. You guys care to tell us what you're laughing about so loud that it bleeds through to the air without being in the microphone?

[Caller/Guest]

No, I think we're good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It'll be Ann later.

[Guest Commentator]

Don't worry.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I just did something happened? No, no, no.

[Caller/Guest]

Jacob missed something that I heard, and you have to go back and listen because it was hilarious.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But who said it?

[Caller/Guest]

Don did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really? An accidental drop. That's unfortunate.

[Caller/Guest]

No, I don't think it was accidental. He knew what he was saying. Okay,

[Peter Rosenberg]

so to either of you want to guess? Don has guessed Ring around the Rosie as the second biggest English song in history. In the history of the world, by the way.

[Don Hahn]

Ring around the Rosie. Ring around the Rosie is a children's song.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Correct.

[Don Hahn]

About the plague. No, it is. Around the Rosie, Pocket full of Posey. Ashes, ashes, we all fall down dead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Great song.

[Caller/Guest]

I don't remember the dead part.

[Don Hahn]

Anyone have a. I'm telling you what, Paul.

[Caller/Guest]

I understand.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Anyone have a guess for what's after Happy Birthday as the most recognizable song in the English language?

[Caller/Guest]

No, I don't.

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And again, it's. It's at the end. You're gonna go, this is why we're not great. We need to do better. For He's a Jolly Good fella.

[Don Hahn]

Firestarter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Firestarter.

[Don Hahn]

English.

[Peter Rosenberg]

For he's a jolly good fellow.

[Don Hahn]

All right. No, that makes sense.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can I say this, though? You want a hot take? For He's a Jolly good Fellow. Way better than the birthday song, but not great. At least it's a fellow.

[Don Hahn]

For he's a jolly good fellow for

[Peter Rosenberg]

he's a jolly good fellow which nobody can deny. Way more upbeat. The birthday song sounds like a funeral procession.

[Don Hahn]

Where I. Where is maybe Ring around the Rosie. Because it's not English. It's not. Well, it's English.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is English, though.

[Don Hahn]

But I bet you if they had a top 10, what's Old McDonald?

[Caller/Guest]

Ellis.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, wow. You know what?

[Don Hahn]

That's. That's got to be there.

[Caller/Guest]

I heard he had a farm. Is that accurate?

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, that's a hammer from Jacob.

[Don Hahn]

Did you ever hear the Sinatra story? He bet somebody that he can make a hit out of Old McDonald, and he did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it was just a goof,

[Don Hahn]

and he just did it. And it was it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, because he knew it was it.

[Don Hahn]

But everybody see these. These songs that we're talking About. Haven't thought about them in decades. Know the words, right? Old MacDonald had a farm E I

[Peter Rosenberg]

E I O well, I have an 18 month old, so this is hot.

[Don Hahn]

No, that was always a big deal. But I would change with the kids. Old MacDonald had a farm E I E I O and on this farm he had an Ozzy E I E I O with a Here I would play.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would do that. And you would make fun of Ozzy's voice. That's really. I don't know how he would feel about that. And he's no longer with it. You know what, let's go to D and Patterson, who wants to weigh in on this troubling subject.

[Caller/Guest]

Hey, D. That's a one year anniversary, by the way.

[Don Hahn]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks, man.

[Don Hahn]

What's up, Day? I had to got a. Bust your bubble, Don.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Don Hahn]

You know, the Ring around the Rosie song is a morbid song, dude. Yeah, you know I said that. I said it's about the plug.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He said it's about the plague.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Oh, okay.

[Caller/Guest]

Cool, cool. All right.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't hear that part. Yeah, no, I said that. It's about the play.

[Caller/Guest]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

But I thought it might have been on the list of songs that people know because all the kids know that song. They just don't know what it's about. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Along with a bunch of other ones.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I didn't hear that part.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I take that back.

[Don Hahn]

And the Stevie Wonder birthday song. Dude, I hear that everywhere. I've never heard the Beatles song sung at a party. And I've been to numerous parties of

[Peter Rosenberg]

all varieties, different generations. But you've.

[Don Hahn]

You've heard the song played?

[Caller/Guest]

Song?

[Don Hahn]

It's never so I've heard the song played.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Guest Commentator]

It just.

[Caller/Guest]

It's not.

[Don Hahn]

It's not an easy song to sing, you know, it just. It's not an easy song. But you do. It is very much associated with. Bro. Those are the three. If you're at a birthday and they play a song, it's gonna be probably the. It's actually just the two. They'll sing Happy Birthday, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

The two songs that they play.

[Don Hahn]

Stevie Wonder and the Beatles now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And let me think, when you sing the Stevie Wonder one, all you do is because it has full verses, but all anyone says is happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, Happy birthday. It's so funny. Every happy birthday song, no one can get into more words besides happy birthday. So apparently this song, though, it really got big. It was written originally way back in the day 8.

[Don Hahn]

What song is this?

[Peter Rosenberg]

The original. The Original Happy Birthday 1893.

[Don Hahn]

So that's kind of late.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Patty and Mildred Hill. Although there's some disputes about who composed it.

[Don Hahn]

They were fighting about it right away.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, right. They went, this is it.

[Don Hahn]

It was probably a Yoko in there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. They were like, by the way, look how funny this is. It lists the lyrics. I'm like, happy birthday to you. That's the only.

[Don Hahn]

It's like, we're good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the only lyrics. There's been lawsuits about it with the copyright. It's a whole thing. But I do. It is a fun. Most famous English language songs. Knowing that Happy birthday is number one, it would be fun to see the full 10.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, there's got to be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because I do wonder if. What did you say yours again? Because Old McDonald has to be up there. Right?

[Don Hahn]

I think. Ring around the Rosie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's another kids one? What's another really basic kids one?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, it's Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, you talk about a hammer. Oh, yeah, that. That might be like number two if I. If number one was.

[Guest Commentator]

Who's number one again? I forgot.

[Don Hahn]

Happy birthday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Happy birthday.

[Ad Voice]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think that should be number two also. Itsy Bitsy Spider should probably be on the list. So that's a big one, too.

[Caller/Guest]

Someone called in said ABC song. Does that count? Does the Alphabet song count?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That can't count.

[Caller/Guest]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Somebody might count it, though, just because

[Don Hahn]

it has a tone and it, you

[Peter Rosenberg]

know, it does have a tune. Oh, it has. Next time, won't you sing with me?

[Don Hahn]

An important ball that's got as many words as Happy Birthday. You know what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's number two. All right, so I found a list. The third one I already don't know.

[Caller/Guest]

Interesting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's the third one? It's the one sung on New Year's Eve.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, old Lang sin. Sure you don't know that, old acquaintance?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just know the tune. I don't know the words.

[Caller/Guest]

Oh, wow. Interesting.

[Don Hahn]

You know the words?

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

From what?

[Caller/Guest]

It gets hazy from singing it during New Year's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

People sing that on New Year's.

[Caller/Guest]

Maybe it's an Italian thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not my family. Maybe I'm black. Because I don't see in my house either. I watch them on tv.

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they show the. Yeah. And you see the yo yos in Times Square and they're hugging the people. They're sitting in their own film.

[Don Hahn]

No, you always hear. You hear the song and people sing it. But I don't think people know the words.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, do you know it. You know them. Anthony really knew.

[Don Hahn]

He was belting Old acquaintance be forgot. And then. And then I start to lose it a little bit. But I know the song.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's where I'm at with it.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Most of my family does. And by the way, grapes. And by the way, why are you saying it's the number? One of the biggest songs in English? And the title's not even in English. You see what I'm saying?

[Caller/Guest]

It was a poem in Scotland.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, got it. So it's Scottish, English.

[Don Hahn]

And they're like. And we decided to sing it. What else we got?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's see. The only one listed here because it's cutting off, I guess I don't. I have to pay for this.

[Caller/Guest]

That's. That's unbelievable.

[Peter Rosenberg]

On the Guinness Book, all I see is Happy birthday to you, for he's a jolly good Fellow and the Fakocta New Year's one. And then it starts getting into other records. Like the best selling single of all time, which is White Christmas by Bing Crosby. Or the best selling single since the 50s, which is. This is crazy, Don. You want to see a crazy stat?

[Don Hahn]

Go ahead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what the best selling single since the 1950s is?

[Don Hahn]

The best selling single.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It is not Michael Jackson. It is not Elvis Presley. It is not. Who else could be in that conversation? I don't know, you know, Taylor Swift. It's none of those people. It's someone very big. Someone very big.

[Don Hahn]

1950.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, since the 50s.

[Don Hahn]

Since the 50s. So it could be anytime in the 50s.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, it's not from the 50s. Post. It's. This is the biggest selling single according to what I'm seeing right now, after the 50s. So I'll give you a year, though.

[Don Hahn]

It was like a Pat Boone song.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, Someone bigger than Pat Boone and gayer.

[Don Hahn]

Bigger than Pat Boone. Barry Manilow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is Barry Manilow gay?

[Don Hahn]

Yes, he is. Yeah. He's married and everything.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Good for him. I didn't know that.

[Don Hahn]

Love, Barry.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don Hahn]

Elton John.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, now we're getting warm now. Can you guess the song right away, according to this thing? It says it's the biggest single.

[Don Hahn]

His biggest single.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can't believe it.

[Don Hahn]

That this might be. Might be Crocodile Rock.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Absolutely not. It's. No, no, no.

[Don Hahn]

I don't hear a song.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. At least I know you're a song. I don't know Crocodile Rock, do I?

[Don Hahn]

You know Crocodile?

[Caller/Guest]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You do. I do.

[Caller/Guest]

I would think so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How's it go?

[Don Hahn]

Is it like the beat Gus can't keep still.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I can't It's Candle in the wind. 33 million. How is that?

[Don Hahn]

I can see that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, because

[Don Hahn]

everybody bought it then. It's not a bad song. It's not a song. I think. I think of Elton John.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it's a nice song. The moment was. It makes sense. Because think about it. It was huge in the us. I can't imagine how big it was in England. You have this huge British star mourning princess. It makes perfect sense that it would be a gigantic song. It's just not what you would ever think of being the biggest single of decades.

[Don Hahn]

Felicia, Mississippi, you're on espn. How are you?

[Caller/Guest]

Felicia.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hi, Felicia.

[Caller/Guest]

Hey, guys. I haven't called in a while and I just haven't had much to input in any of the conversations. But I just wanted to call and wish you a happy birthday and I hope you have a great day.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was it? You did that just for me?

[Caller/Guest]

I can't hear you guys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Felicia. Yeah, that's very sweet of you. Thank you very much.

[Don Hahn]

That was very nice to take it because you've been busy. Have you. Have you designed an alternate Islanders jersey yet?

[Caller/Guest]

You know, I am not creative at all, so no, I didn't. But I liked the post they put out the other day with some of the ones that have been designed. I'm actually one of the few people that really has liked the one we've had for the past few years. So I don't know. We'll see. But no, I did not design one.

[Don Hahn]

But that was nice that you thought of Peter and wished him happy birthday and she was on hold for a little bit.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I really, really appreciate that. That was very sweet. God.

[Don Hahn]

I want to see what's beyond that. Number three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know. Me too. And I can't. You think Claude will know?

[Don Hahn]

Who's Claude Clark?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hurry up, Jacob. Hurry, Jacob. You got limited time. While it's on the top of our mind, you enjoy every five minutes, Claude Clark. I thought so. What are the 10 most popular songs in the history of. Of the English language? Knowing that the first is definitely Happy Birthday.

[Don Hahn]

That's a lot of info.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I asked Claude.

[Don Hahn]

That's a thing, Clark. I've heard of Siri.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You enjoy throwing up every five minutes, Claude Clark. I thought so. All right, here you go. Give me a list. At least give me 10. You want to hear them?

[Don Hahn]

I would like to hear them, yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, here we go. Number one, it has Happy birthday to you. Number two, it has the fakacta New Year song, you said, which is ridiculous

[Caller/Guest]

if Peter doesn't Know it. It's always ridiculous. You gotta remember.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, again, if I can't pronounce it, is it really English? English or Jays? What about number three? They have Twinkle, twinkle, Little Star.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, we thought about that.

[Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Number four? They have. For He's a Jolly Good Fellow. Number five. And also challenging for the worst tunes with Happy Birthday is our glorious Star Spangled Banner. Number five. Number six. Which way? Better tune. We're at least going the right direction. Amazing Grace.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, now you're talking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now we're having a conversation. Like Amazing Grace. We're having a conversation.

[Don Hahn]

I'm not skipping that the way I'm skipping the other one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, exactly. With all due respect to our national anthem and Happy Birthday, they're both skipperoos. You get to Amazing Grace. Yeah, I might well up number seven. Oh, this is big. You wrote this one? Let me tell you, you're heading to the mailbox every six months with a big check.

[Don Hahn]

Big check.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yankee Doodle. I mean, terrible lyrics, if we're being honest. A joke. Yeah, not exactly. Biggie Smalls.

[Don Hahn]

It has places. Yankee Doodle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's places in the toilet.

[Caller/Guest]

Oh, wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, number eight. How is this behind these?

[Don Hahn]

This is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what, Don, who you taking out? But I'll tell you, number eight. You want to talk about a big one? You want to talk about Lennon McCartney, Plant Page Swift, Jay Z? How about a little ditty called Row, Row, Row your Boat? Come on. That's a big one.

[Don Hahn]

But we know it. That's what?

[Ad Voice]

It's huge.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream. Number nine. Another big one. And we're back to more religious vibes.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Silent Night.

[Don Hahn]

That's. Well, Bing Crosby had definitely had a hit with that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's not written by Bing Crosby, of course.

[Don Hahn]

But that's the best song that you've said so far.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You like it more than Amazing Grace. I disagree. The bars, I think, are better.

[Don Hahn]

Well, Those are the two.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And number 10, White Christmas, written by the very Jewish Irving Berlin.

[Don Hahn]

Also a Bing Crosby standard.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah. Bing Crosby did all of these. Was Bing Crosby. He was big in your house. Your dad liked Bing Crosby.

[Caller/Guest]

I don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He didn't have an issue with.

[Don Hahn]

Well, if. I would say when. If he. If he loved Bing Crosby, he was probably disgusted that he did that song with David Bowie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Your dad doesn't strike me as a Bowie guy.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, no, Bowie wasn't getting the. The whole space oddity vibe.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it wasn't your dad's scene oh, which is odd though, because we did learn this week that your dad did like sci fi but not space oddity.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, not from yeah, he might have been intrigued by a movie and then

[Peter Rosenberg]

the Life on Mars wasn't his jam. He didn't watch Labyrinth is what you're

[Don Hahn]

saying he might have, not knowing that David Bowie was it. And if I told him it was

[Peter Rosenberg]

Bowie, he'd be like, turn this off, this hippie nonsense.

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[Podcast Host/Producer]

thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Clock.

[Don Hahn]

We're out of Dodge at 7. Deuce McBride was on a podcast called that's Right, Knicks Film School. They get creative with these names.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Don Hahn]

He says the NBA rewards losing and

[Guest Commentator]

I think a lot of guys care about winning, but not in the same sense of and I think it's honestly, I think it's the NBA's fault because we reward guys that necessarily don't win. We reward guys that lose in a sense. Sometimes we pay guys that lose. Truthfully, I'm going to say anything, but I mean no, we I think the NBA has got to do a better job of rewarding winning guys that impact the game.

[Don Hahn]

See that? I had not heard the cut before this Peter, so I thought he was going to say about tanking me too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's where I assumed this clip was

[Don Hahn]

going, but where he's talking about that you should be rewarded financially for wins, not how you perform on the court. Dude, that's easy to say after you just won. Like, how unfair would that be? You're on a team that's not any good, you ball out, you average 30 points a game and your team misses the playoffs. I shouldn't get paid because my general manager hasn't put people around me like that. That breeds of I want to go to a winner. I want a chance to win so I can get paid. Like there are teams that are in rebuilds. There are, there are great players that are stuck on teams that haven't won with. Should Carl Malone and John Stockton not have gotten paid because they never won a championship? But a guy why am I why is his name escaping me?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What are you. What do you think?

[Don Hahn]

Like, he was. He was on a bunch of teams that won. Like, he. He.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Robert Ory.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Like, so Robert Horry, who was not as good as Karl Malone, but he won a bunch of championships because he happened to be right place, right time. Should he be paid more? Is that what Deuce is suggesting? We should. We should pay winners and not pay team guys that are. That are on losing teams. Like, if you're. If you're. If you're just a compiler of points and don't care about winning, then I get it, then I understand that. But there's some really great players. You know, Charles Barkley never won.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course.

[Don Hahn]

You know. Come on. Does that.

[Caller/Guest]

That.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like it's coming from a guy that just won. Honestly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Because otherwise, bro, why would he ever. That's a great way of putting it. You come off like a guy who has the privilege now. And with all respect, and I mean all due respect to what Deuce did, if your career falls a different way, you're not ever on a championship.

[Don Hahn]

Now, if I've got two players that play the same position, they put up the same points, one guy's got five rings, one guy's not. None.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

I should probably pay the guy that's got five rings more.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sure.

[Don Hahn]

Or the guy that maybe has been better in the postseason because a lot of guys that are great regular season, like, if you want to tell me, because Judge hasn't been great in the postseason, that. That should reflect poorly on him compared to a player that maybe isn't as good a regular season player, but as has been clutch in the postseason. Well, that's a different story. But I don't think we're rewarding losing, paying a really good player that's on a team that's not very good. I look at that as a team saying, I want to hold on to that guy. I want to build around that guy, but I might not know how to do it or I just haven't. I caught a break.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's. There's. There's never a way to adequately pay people around championships, Don, unless they're the best player on the team and they're responsible for championships. That's very. If we want to get into that conversation, you're really talking about how many players on this Knicks team specifically, two or three. After that, you're talking about other people who did a great job, but it could have been other people who did those jobs.

[Don Hahn]

Right. And you could have done the Same thing on a team that didn't have those players. And you never win. So were you suggesting you shouldn't get paid?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, no. I mean. And in fact, the truth is, for players of Deuces level, respectfully, if you don't end up on the right place, on a team that gels the right way, because now people cared about, they wanted Deuce to stick around. Everyone wants you to stick around now because you're part of Magic, right? If you're not, you know, and I don't want to slight Deuce McBride at all. But Deuce McBride's a role player, right? You know how easy it is to just become a journeyman who's on seven teams in eight years. That's what happens if you don't end up falling into the right place.

[Don Hahn]

And the thing. And the thing is he's clutch, all right? He did contribute to the champion.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He did. So did Shame.

[Don Hahn]

But he was also given the opportunity that if he's in Sacramento, he never gets.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Dude, what. What is Landry shammit or Deuce McBride if they're on the T Wolves or the Jazz, right?

[Don Hahn]

So they're players that, hey, those are nice players. Those might be players that winning teams will try to acquire, trade for, sign when they become free agents.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If we played a game right now and we picked sort of 3 of the role players on this team and I said to Jacob, or other Knicks fans out there have been Knicks fans for years, tell me, the other players in Knicks history who you think could have perfectly fit this exact same role, but they happened to be on the

[Don Hahn]

wrong team for years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We could look at the teens teams, the ots teams, all. We can go through Don chapter and verse and find guys. I mean, you don't think there's a world in which Jeremy Lynn could have been an awesome contributor on this team?

[Don Hahn]

Perfect example. If Carmelo Anthony was born a little bit later in life and had been on this Knicks team, would he have stopped them from winning a championship or contributed to them winning?

[Peter Rosenberg]

The harder thing is when you go to big players like that, though, is that their existence changes the team fundamentally. Okay, so I'd rather go, like, who do we say David Lee couldn't have been a part of this team? Who was the kid who he said that Timothy Chalamet went out and met Landry Fields? Landry Fields?

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Landry Fields could have been Landry Shamit.

[Don Hahn]

No, but the Jeremy Lynn thing's interesting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Lynn or Landry, one of those guys couldn't have been David Lee. You don't know none of these guys. J.R. smith. J.R. smith couldn't have been one of the heart guys who hustled on this team. You don't know, but you didn't happen to be here. So it's hard to start viewing things through that lens. I understand what Deuce is saying, but it's very hard to view things from that lens now.

[Don Hahn]

When. When I. When I saw the slog NBA rewards losing, I thought we were talking about the tanking situation and how you're handing, you know, great players out of college to teams that don't know what the hell they're doing. That's the biggest problem I have with the draft. The way that it is, is you're rewarding, being lousy at what you do and handing you Connor McDavid, handing you Cooper flag, handing you LeBron James, handing you, you know, the best players in the history of the sport, just because you're completely incompetent. We shouldn't reward that. We should punish. And then it becomes the vicious cycle, and then these guys don't want to play. It's crazy, but that kind of fooled me a little bit. He also spoke about how important buying in is.

[Guest Commentator]

Huge. Huge. I mean, I think if more guys bought in and understood their role, you know, the NBA would look a lot different. I feel like guys. That's why I say I give so much credit to Katt. I mean, you're number one your whole life, and you come here and you not necessarily take a back seat, but you understand that, you know, you're playing with a very talented player. And for a lot of guys not even drafted number one, maybe drafted in the second round, they can't. They can't comprehend that mindset because they've been the best on their team, All American in college, whatever you want to say. But I mean, to have that mindset of just, I want to win.

[Don Hahn]

And we talked about the circumstances around Cat, from, you know, maybe playing in Milwaukee and being part of a Giannis deal to now being a part of forever. Crazy, right? What if they were able to work something out? Remember, what was it like February, where the Knicks kind of lost it a little bit? They were struggling, and we were saying, you know, I don't know if this team is going to be able to make the run, we thought. And, like, what if they were able to pull off the honest deal now? What if Giannis wasn't hurt? They trade Cat for Giannis, and then Cat never, never feels this. Never a part of forever. That's all circumstances, man. There is a lot of luck in winning a championship of just being in the right place at the right time. Like, what is Derek Jeter's career if he's drafted by the Reds instead of the Yankees? Great player, perennial All Star. Does he play in any postseason games? Does he win any championships? Does that make him less of a ballplayer because he wasn't given the opportunity to excel because he just wasn't on the right. He always won. Like, who are some of these players that could be a Jeter, that could be clutch, that, like, just never got the. You know, it's like, Mike Trout's been the playoffs once, one playoff series his entire career. He might be one of the most clutch great players in the history of the sport. In the postseason have ring rings jingling and jangling if he's a Dodger, if he's a Yankee.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jangling, Right? Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

So I think you just.

[Ad Voice]

How did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, you.

[Don Hahn]

Never again. I'm not accusing Deuce of being this. But I just think it's so. It's. It's kind of easy to look down after you win a championship and make it seem like, you know, it was all by design. You know, this was the way it was supposed to be. Sometimes you just got to also just be, hey, I'm lucky I was here, lucky I was at this place at this time. Because think of all those great Knicks that were just on teams that just weren't good enough. The Derek Harpers of the world, you know, like, really good players that played in the post game and just never weren't. They weren't on a team that was good enough to win the whole thing. And it wasn't because of them. It was just the other team was better. Look, because look at all those. Nick T. You weren't beating the Bulls. It was Michael Jordan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it's worse now, too, because, you know, now more than ever, the championship determines a player's greatness. Like, there was a time when it was like, it was icing on the cake. Don, it's no longer icing on the cake, it's now. That's how you get the conversation.

[Don Hahn]

But I'm going to tell you something coming up that could change your mind on that and how now might be the best opportunity for that to happen.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Where are you going with this?

[Don Hahn]

You'll see. Plus, we'll get to Cecil. But we do acknowledge the Candle in the Wind was written about Marilyn Monroe, but resurfaced when Diana died. And it kind of became her song, but it was written years earlier than that and wasn't a hit.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's how but it became big. It was a hit no the first

[Don Hahn]

time around, but not like not the second time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I remember the video like it was a thing, but not the way when Diana died when I was in 97

[Don Hahn]

the song came out much earlier.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like 87 I'd say.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, you're probably right.

[Caller/Guest]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Podcast Host/Producer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Much is being made right now about the fact that Scranton is playing a game tonight. The Yankees Triple A affiliate you don't know and George Lombard Jr. Not in the lineup. They did not submit the lineup until late. It was just a few minutes ago for a 705 start. Odd that like quarter to six they hadn't had the lineup yet and in that lineup he's not in it. So a lot of speculation that maybe he's getting called up. Yankees trying to see if they can either improve third base, improve shortstop. And if Lombard's getting called up and I'm not saying he is, maybe we're Speculating on this? No, we're clearly speculating on it, but maybe we're taking too deep a dive here that if he's getting called up on July 23rd for the game on the 24th, he's here to stay. Now, you call him up in late September, all right? It's just a call up September 1st, expand the roster, yada, yada, yada. He's here because the minor league season is over. There's no place for him to play. If he is going to be, even if he's not in the lineup tomorrow in Philadelphia, if he's on the Yankees and there isn't some sort of major injury that they haven't announced yet, then he's here. And what that means for Anthony Volpe, I don't know. Because if you move them and have him play third, well, then there's a place for McMahon to go, right? There's a place for Jazz to go, but there's really no place for Volpe to go if he plays short. So does that mean that maybe somebody's going to get dealt? So there's a lot of speculation swirling around the fact that George Lombard Jr. Not in the lineup for Scranton tonight. So keep an eye on that. You were talking about everything being about winning and your legacy. Don't you think that's now more than ever? Because back when it was the same two or three teams winning the titles all the time. Well, now you had to find a way to get on that team. But eight straight years of a different champion. Peter, if you're a great player in the NBA during this era and you don't win, it's going to reflect even worse on you, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's an interesting thought I never really conceived of. Because you're saying it's open, but it's open. Obviously it's open. Look, the Knicks won.

[Don Hahn]

The Knicks just won. And seven different teams previous to that have won. So what new team? All right, maybe it'll be the spurs or maybe it'll be Cleveland, if Obviously they get LeBron James,

[Peter Rosenberg]

even maybe without LeBron James.

[Don Hahn]

But the thing is, if you're a great player during this year and go look 10 different teams won championships over 10 years and you weren't on any of them. What's going on? Where before it's like, well, I didn't win the championship because I wasn't on LeBron James team or wasn't on Jordan's team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You had a cop out. You had a cop out, which is we were not one of those teams. We're not built that way.

[Don Hahn]

Durant had to join Golden State because that's the team that was winning championships. But now, why aren't you leading your team to a championship? Eight other teams were able to do it over the last eight years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Now any Yo. Yo team could win. Just look at the. Just look at the Knicks. I'm joking, by the way.

[Don Hahn]

Jordan ran on. Oh, he just got more breaking news.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Legit breaking news.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I don't know. How do you feel about anything?

[Caller/Guest]

That's a good point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Jordan Ronan says that neighbors avoids the pop list. So that gives you some thought that he might be back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But what would PUP put him at?

[Don Hahn]

The PUP physically unable to put.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know what the hell stands for now. I get that.

[Don Hahn]

I think it's. Is it the first eight?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, geez. Was that. That was consideration.

[Don Hahn]

Well, if you go on the PUP list, you got to be out for a certain period.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's what I'm asking.

[Don Hahn]

Damn it. That's what I was asking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what I'm asking. He's telling me what it stands for. I'm saying, yeah, that was hurtful.

[Don Hahn]

Well, but what he's saying is I don't think you really know very well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you know what he's saying.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's what he thinks of me.

[Don Hahn]

I have it. Hold on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he took it out.

[Guest Commentator]

Of course.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Anytime there's a drop that I want to play that moment before they go. Peter will never want to play this again ever again. The kiss Cam Scatter Boo should stay there. Don't you know didn't it seem clear all right. I want to do back in the pup.

[Caller/Guest]

In training camp isn't the same as pup.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ah, it's a different kind of puppy.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's what we want to try to do.

[Caller/Guest]

Active PUP is used during training camp. Players count on the 90 man roster and can return to practice at any time. Reserve PUP begins during the regular season, requiring a mandatory minimum absence of the first four.

[Don Hahn]

Four weeks.

[Caller/Guest]

So really, he's not even on this for the training camp. Implying he might be able to get some work in a training camp.

[Don Hahn]

He might, which would be good, but it doesn't. I don't think it means it's better than the alternative. Right, but if.

[Caller/Guest]

Even.

[Don Hahn]

Even if he was putting on the put on the PUP list, it wouldn't have been as catastrophic as what you were saying. If it's the reserve public during a season where you have to miss, you know, minimum four games. Which is. Which is what's Being speculated to begin with anyway. But if he, if, if it's open for him to be able to possibly participate in camp, then I guess it's open that he could be back sooner than later. And that would be very good news, not just for the Giants overall certainly, but then for, for the production and growth of Dart to be able to have that kind of weapon at wide receiver. You already got, you drafted a tight end. You've got a good running game here with Cam coming back and being healthy. So that's, that's good news. So rapid fire things are starting to happen here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here we go. Things are happening at night.

[Don Hahn]

So I guess the spurs are the favorites to win next year. That would put us at nine straight. Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If that happened, by the way, you certainly can't rule out it's on the table.

[Don Hahn]

So that streak is definitely going to run out at some point. Unless all of a sudden Indiana joins back in the fray. Halliburton's healthy, Detroit takes the next step.

[Peter Rosenberg]

When I would say the spurs are the most likely team that could turn this thing into. All of a sudden they win two of three.

[Don Hahn]

That we can kind of get back to dynasty the way it was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not. Not that we want to get back

[Don Hahn]

there, but hey, listen, the Thunder could win next year. It won't be back to back. It'll be two out of three. I don't think they're going anywhere. They had injuries last year. They lost in seven to the Spurs. I think the Knicks proved that they were going to beat all comers. We didn't maybe know it at the time, but looking back, I think they would have beaten the Thunder as. Maybe not in five, but I think they would have beaten the Thunder. That's why it's going to be so difficult for the Knicks to repeat. That'll be a conversation we'll have at another time. We get closer to the season and certainly in the season just because the way the NBA is set up and the fact is the spurs are going to be better than. It's going to be better. Peter, I mean, could you play any better?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You mean than last year?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, they're not going to be a better team on paper next year.

[Don Hahn]

In fact, I would argue.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And again, I always sound like I'm such a damn pessimist with these local teams. I don't mean that with Mitch gone, they'll likely be a slightly worse team.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's a reason Mitchell Robinson was valuable and Boston was interested.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So they'll probably be a tiny bit worse than they were. But they're also more seasoned, and it's not that big a difference. They'll still be a very good team.

[Don Hahn]

But what makes it difficult for the Knicks to repeat is that I think the spurs will be better if they have a rematch, just for the experience of going through the finals. Where LeBron James ends up's a thing. Because if he goes to Cleveland, well, they went to the Final Four last year. I'm with you. Boston's not the Knicks, but they're not going away. But what is Detroit going to be? Detroit, you know, Philadelphia. Where does it see where LeBron James ends up matters? I still think the Knicks are better, but the thing is, can you play better than the Knicks played last year? I mean, they played out of their minds. Some of it they were better than we thought, but some of it just, wow. Every shot fell. They just, they, they, they did an amazing job. To ask to do that again is going to be tough, and then you're going to have the target on your back of it being the defending champions. But that's certainly a conversation for another day.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the sausage made, man.

[Don Hahn]

I just want to know it's good.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.