Hour 3: Here Comes The Happy

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary
Episode: Hour 3: Here Comes The Happy
Release Date: June 18, 2025

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Yankees' Struggles and Aaron Boone’s Management

Discussion Overview:
The primary focus of this episode centers on the New York Yankees' recent underperformance and the managerial strategies of Aaron Boone. Hosts Don Hahn and Peter Rosenberg delve deep into Boone's handling of the team's struggles, particularly emphasizing his approach to media interactions and internal team dynamics.

Key Points:

• Yankees' Recent Performance:
  The Yankees have experienced a rough patch, including being shut out for the third consecutive game and blowing a 4-1 lead in the eighth inning (00:45). This downturn has sparked discussions about Boone's managerial effectiveness and his public relations strategies.

• Closed-Door Meetings Controversy:
  A significant portion of the conversation revolves around whether Boone held a "players-only meeting" after the latest loss. While initial reports suggested a closed-door session, Boone later refuted this, stating, “it wasn’t a reaming session” (01:35). Hosts and callers debate the implications of Boone's statements, questioning the transparency and perceived defensiveness.

• Authenticity in Press Conferences:
  Don Hahn criticizes Boone for maintaining an overly positive demeanor despite the team's performance issues. He asserts, “Why does everything have to be rosy? Everything’s fine when it’s clearly not fine?” (07:45). The hosts argue that Boone's reluctance to acknowledge current problems undermines his credibility and disconnects him from fans' frustrations.

• Comparisons with Former Managers:
  The hosts draw parallels between Boone and past Yankees managers like Billy Martin and Joe Girardi. They highlight how previous leaders expressed frustration more openly, which some believe fostered better team morale and fan support (14:00).

Notable Quotes:

• Peter Rosenberg:
  “Can you at least embrace the fact that things are not good right now?” (07:25)

• Don Hahn:
  “If all you're going to be is a robot and everything's unicorn and rainbows, I'm going to keep using that until it gets through everybody's head.” (10:35)

Caller Perspectives and Debates

Caller 1 and Caller 2 contribute significantly to the discussion, offering varying viewpoints on Boone's management style and the Yankees' performance trajectory.

• Accountability and Team Morale:
  Callers emphasize the need for Boone to take accountability and demonstrate frustration when warranted. Caller 2 remarks, “He has to have some latitude to be a human being,” suggesting that Boone's controlled demeanor may be stifling genuine team communication (03:23).

• Long-Term Impact on Team Culture:
  The conversation touches upon the long-term cultural impact of Boone's management. There's concern that without authentic leadership, the team may not address underlying issues effectively, potentially leading to prolonged underperformance.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller 2:
  “Why can’t you react to the moment and handle it and just show that you’re human?” (07:45)

• Peter Rosenberg:
  “This is why we joke about Michael never getting in a fight with Jody. Does that make sense? You’ve been married to a woman for 15 years. You never had one fight. There’s something wrong with that.” (17:05)

Historical Context and Organizational Changes

The hosts provide historical context by comparing Boone's current strategies with those of past Yankees managers and owners. They discuss how the organization's culture has shifted over the past 40 years, moving towards a more corporate and less authentic interaction style.

Key Points:

• Shift from Tradition to Corporate:
  Don Hahn reflects on the transformation of the Yankees' organizational culture, noting a shift from the passionate, fiery leadership of managers like Billy Martin to Boone's more restrained approach (14:00).

• Impact on Fan Relations:
  There's an expressed sentiment that New York fans prefer the raw and passionate interactions of past managers. The corporate image Boone projects may be alienating the traditional fanbase looking for genuine emotional connections (14:47).

Notable Quotes:

• Don Hahn:
  “It’s incredible how far that thing has turned completely around.” (14:06)

• Peter Rosenberg:
  “He’s not the kind of guy to get rip roaring mad because there’s no evidence that he’s ever been like that. No, there’s plenty of evidence.” (08:26)

Mets' Performance and Player Concerns

Shifting focus from the Yankees, Don Hahn and Peter Rosenberg briefly discuss the New York Mets' recent performances, highlighting key player issues and potential strategic changes.

Key Points:

• Alvarez’s Performance:
  The Mets' catcher Alvarez is under scrutiny due to inconsistent hitting post-injury. While there's optimism about his exit velocity improving, concerns remain about his ability to perform consistently (27:34).

• Defensive Strategies:
  Discussions include the debate over whether Renz should be the full-time catcher, given his superior defensive capabilities compared to Alvarez (30:21).

Notable Quotes:

• Don Hahn:
  “He’s making contact, making good contact, right? That’s kind of what he’s saying there. He’s getting over 100 on his Velo exit velocity.” (28:17)

Fan Engagement and Final Thoughts

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts interact with additional callers, further exploring fan frustrations and historical comparisons to past baseball eras. They emphasize the importance of reacting authentically to current team struggles to maintain credibility and fan support.

Notable Quotes:

• Peter Rosenberg:
  “I'm not asking him to turn over the table. I'm not asking him to set fire to the press conference. I'm not asking him to be fired.” (23:36)

• Don Hahn:
  “It feels like someone went to him and said, if you're asked about team meeting, there was no team meeting. Make sure you make that clear because it's a sign of panic.” (23:50)

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive critique of Aaron Boone's managerial approach amidst the Yankees' current challenges. Hosts and callers alike advocate for more genuine and transparent leadership to navigate the team's difficulties, drawing lessons from the organization's storied past. The discussion extends to the Mets, highlighting broader themes of leadership, accountability, and fan engagement within New York's major league teams.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Don Hahn (07:45):
  “Why does everything have to be rosy? Everything’s fine when it’s clearly not fine?”

• Peter Rosenberg (07:25):
  “Can you at least embrace the fact that things are not good right now?”

• Caller 2 (03:23):
  “He has to have some latitude to be a human being.”

• Peter Rosenberg (17:05):
  “You’ve been married to a woman for 15 years. You never had one fight. There’s something wrong with that.”

• Don Hahn (14:06):
  “It’s incredible how far that thing has turned completely around.”

• Don Hahn (23:50):
  “Make sure you make that clear because it’s a sign of panic.”

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the transcript provided and are indicative of where quotes occur within the episode.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

Calling all daydreamers and date nighters. Come immerse yourself in the rich culture of Texas and dig into our mouth watering barbecue. Trailblazers can explore our natural wonders.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And.

[Don Hahn]

Beach lovers will wonder why they've never felt so relaxed before. You're invited to discover experiences you can only find in Texas. Visit traveltexas.com and plan your trip today. Let's Texas this is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8:80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers, 501 Big.

[Peter Rosenberg]

City Don Han and Rosenberg until 6:30. Then it's Mets baseball, Mets and the Braves. It was a tough night for both the Mets and the Yankees. Mets blow a 41 lead in the eighth inning. Yankees get shut out for the third consecutive game. Now we were told that the Yankees had a players only meeting after getting shut out again last night for nothing to the Angels. However, Aaron Boone in his pregame press conference today begs to differ.

[Caller 1]

There was a report that there was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A players only meeting last night.

[Caller 2]

Was that your understanding of what actually took place?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, I mean our guys talk all the time and get together in different formats. So.

[Caller 1]

So it wasn't like a closed door, you know, dreaming session?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, we're getting semantics here.

[Don Hahn]

He said it wasn't a closed door reaming, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

So, meaning this wasn't a. They weren't yelling. See when you say there was a closed door meeting, you know the image you have is someone going to the door and closing it and looking at whoever's on the other side of the door like you don't want to be in here. What's for what's about to happen? Like they have meetings. I believe the players themselves acknowledged that they talked. We had a good chat is what Bellinger told the media last night. Which would imply they had a meeting. And if, and this is something, Adana, you know this from covering games and being there post game, when you go and you wait for the locker room to open or the clubhouse to open, which is the normal time it would after a game, after the club stand, right? And if the door isn't open at the time that normally it opens, you look and security goes, you know, we're not ready yet, we're not open yet. So then you know, all right, something's going on in there. That's all. You just know something's going on. So you ask a player, so you guys, why was the door closed for so long? Did you guys have A meeting? Oh, yeah, yeah. We had some things to talk about. Okay. That's it. So to say we. I think what Boone was trying to say to that, whoever the reporter was. No, it wasn't a reaming session. It wasn't guys yelling at each other.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's the semantics. It's the semantics of closed door meeting. Like, when you hear closed door meeting, it sounds like it's. It's bad.

[Don Hahn]

Do you think it makes it worse for Boone to say, no, there wasn't a meeting? Because I would actually, as a fan, prefer to hear that after a game like that is.

[Caller 2]

It wasn't a meeting. I kind of said they meet all the time, but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, but what he's doing is he's trying down to collect away from the negative. The negative connotation of it being a closed door meeting. We have a closed door meeting. He reflects poorly on the manager because the manager wasn't in the meeting. And it tells you it's a bad.

[Caller 2]

It's a bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The ship be sinking because you have a closed door.

[Caller 2]

But it's a misstep.

[Don Hahn]

How far can it sink?

[Caller 2]

It's a misstep by Boone, though, because people are always upset with the fact that there's no accountability and there's no, like, aggressiveness about the issues of this team. Boone has an opportunity there by allowing people to think, to be like, no, no, my guys take it seriously. Don't get caught up in your own pride that you weren't there.

[Don Hahn]

That.

[Caller 2]

No, it's the fact that the way I run this team, these players are responsible on their own. They know what they need to do. They got together. Of course they're unhappy. Have you watched the last week?

[Peter Rosenberg]

See that? See why?

[Don Hahn]

How hard is that to do?

[Caller 2]

I'm an idiot, and I figured it out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is where Peter, because of our history with the K show, we got to know Aaron. Not gonna say I'm friends with the guy, but I like him. We get along with each other. And so I kind of. I don't treat him. You've texted him before. The way I drop. I texted him every Friday to get the pics.

[Caller 2]

Not. Damn right.

[Don Hahn]

Wait, wait. He sends you emojis when you text him?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller 2]

Big emoji guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Big emoji. Luxuriate in, like, what is almost a museum of emojis.

[Caller 2]

He texts me.

[Don Hahn]

He texts you emojis. He's.

[Caller 2]

He texts me. During the Eagles Commanders Championship, there's dialogue.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That we have dialogue.

[Don Hahn]

All right, well, wait a minute. That's. That's A lot more than you know. I wouldn't consider him a friend. He's texting, he's friendly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I said I wouldn't consider him a friend.

[Don Hahn]

Why not? Maybe now he's going to say he's going to send you a sad face emoji.

[Caller 2]

Now post case show. It's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I. I'll tell you what. Like, this is. This is where our relationship is, whether it's friendly or whatever.

[Don Hahn]

All right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Michael, I think Michael had a problem with it because he, like, he keeps. He wants his line of demarcation.

[Don Hahn]

What do you mean?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, like, maybe I overstepped my bounds. I didn't feel like I did the Yankee. The Rangers were in Tampa. I was on the trip. So I suggested that I do the case show from Legends Field or Steinbrenner Field now Right. During one of the games so I can go to the game. So I like it. So me and Dave and Sam Rosen went to the game, and then I said, guys, excuse me. Three o' clock. I went to the. And I did the game. I did the show from the game.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But before, when I got there early, I went to the clubhouse, kind of poked around, see who was around, introduced myself to Anthony Volpe, talked to Meredith, and I knocked on Aaron's door.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I walked in and said, you got a moment? He said, sure. Invited me in, said hello. There was a moment, a misunderstanding where I thought maybe he was on the way to inviting me to dinner. He's like, what are you doing for dinner?

[Caller 2]

Oh, this was tough.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I said, don't have any plans. He's like, try this restaurant that he was just making. He was giving me. He wanted to help the place I can go.

[Don Hahn]

And for a brief second, a brief.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Second, I thought, well, somebody says to you, what are you doing for dinner?

[Caller 2]

No, you thought, oh, my God, am.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I going to go to dinner with Aaron Boone? No, he was just making suggestions of places that I can go with the Philistines. So. And Michael was like, you shouldn't have knocked on the door. That's not.

[Caller 2]

Yeah, that was. That's not true. He was wrong about that.

[Don Hahn]

No, shouldn't have knocked on the door.

[Peter Rosenberg]

When the door wasn't closed, it was partially open. I saw that he was in there. I knocked on. I didn't just walk in, say, hey, Skip, how's it hanging? No, I knocked on the door, but tried to be respectful. But I think Michael just wanted to.

[Don Hahn]

Do today's lineup for.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I didn't. Grab a seat, sit down, put my Feet up on the desk saying, yeah, what's it going? How's it going? Yeah, it was blizzy.

[Don Hahn]

He didn't suggest to change the material of their uniform.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So we've gotten to know Boone a little bit, so I will defend him. But if there is a problem I have with Aaron, embrace the negative. Like, you have lost three straight games by shutout. You've lost five games in a row. You've scored five runs in the last six. What is so wrong with admitting things aren't good right now? I'm not telling you to resign. I think he's good, but I'm just saying there's a meaning. So why do you always have to deflect the negative? Why can't you embrace the negative? Because that's what the fans are looking at. Like, aaron, are you lost? Like, why are you so positive? Why can't you every once in a while just admit, you know what, Things aren't good right now, and it's gonna have to change. Is it that, Peter? Is it that crazy? Is everything gonna topple over if you just admit the real bad stuff is actually real bad? I'm not saying you admit defeat, but can you at least embrace the fact that things are not good right now?

[Caller 2]

I don't see why not. That's the part I just. I don't see the win in pretending. That's the thing. I'm trying to. Why not lean in in these moments? Show people how much you care. Do you remember how much people loved Gardner ramming the bat into the top of the dugout? I mean, it may have done more for him than his. Than his play like that. It was. That endeared him. Why are they so against showing heart?

[Don Hahn]

His savages in the box ran.

[Caller 2]

Oh, that was his best moment, was.

[Don Hahn]

What everybody loved and there wasn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Interesting. You know what's so interesting? You said that. Because I was thinking about, he's capable of that. We saw it. He's capable of losing it.

[Don Hahn]

We know he's fiery.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But then when you turn around and everything's unicorn and rainbows after the game, it makes it seem like when you do get into with the umpires, it's performative because it's not consistent with your actual behavior. When you talk to the media, like, everybody believe.

[Don Hahn]

Which one do I believe?

[Caller 2]

What do I believe?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do I believe the savages in the box? The guy that was just so annoyed with the strike zone that he lost it, but when the Yankees get shut out three straight games, it's like, oh, nothing. To see here, he's Kevin Bacon in Animal House. Like, nothing to see here, all is well. Like, so what's the truth? Because we know you played. We know your lineage. You're a third generation baseball player. I saw your dad play. I know the kind of fire that's in the boon head when it comes to playing baseball. I saw you play.

[Don Hahn]

So let me ask you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know so. So why do you feel like you need to kind of control it? What's so wrong with every once in a while going practice or playoffs, like have that moment you want to crown him? Yeah. What's so wrong with having that moment?

[Don Hahn]

I'm wondering though, like, when is this what they tell him to do?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

And that then is him just. This is what I'm supposed to do. I'm not supposed to be at the podium expressing frustration because you would think that authenticity is so critical when you're dealing. Not again. Stop thinking about it as don't give the media what they want. You think of it the wrong way when you would approach it that way. And I've told many people this in the business that I've talked to. Stop looking at the reporter and the camera as somebody that. That is trying to take something from you. You control it. And if you give me the Stepford Wives response on things, nobody's buying it. But if you know that through that lens, I'm talking to a fan and they need to know how we feel. I can deliver a message that has them at least understanding instead of them looking at me like, he can't be serious. Right. Cause I'm throwing things around my house right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right, right, right.

[Don Hahn]

And he's acting like it's no big deal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And if the savages in the box things is real.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well then, because if it's not like let's say he never did that, you could say, well, that's just not necessarily.

[Don Hahn]

That can't be a performance. But that was too. He's organic.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's not the kind of guy to get rip roaring mad because there's no evidence that he's ever been like that. No, there's plenty of evidence.

[Don Hahn]

Was like that. Right. Wasn't Art Howell like, oh yeah, everything was vanilla. He did nothing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Although he lit up a room. That's how he got the job. But Michael said when they fired Girardi, what got Girardi can one of the reasons was the post game press conference where he would admit defeat. You know, his big thing was he rub his bald head and not have answers. Show his Frustration. They didn't want that. So to answer your question, this is exactly what the organization wants. But I just think, well, then it's not his fault. 62 game, season, not his fault. There's got to be moments that the Yankees have to allow your manager to be human and to just have those times where it's like, you know what? I'm at a loss here. I'm really frustrated. The players just had a meeting. Good, good. They need to talk it out because this is inexcusable.

[Caller 2]

Easy. You just did it right there.

[Don Hahn]

So then, can we all then come to the agreement that we cannot blame Boone for this? This is what they want.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I think ultimately that's the answer. But every once in a while, when you just gotten a contract, you've been there for eight years.

[Don Hahn]

Character where.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what? I'm sorry, I know you don't like that. But you know what? Did you take a look at the last five games?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Lost five in a row. We're averaging, you know, less than a run a game over the last six. I'm sorry. I lost. And again, I'm not telling you to do a Denny Green or to do an Iverson. I'm not saying embarrass the organization, but at least seem human so that the fans can relate and say, okay, he's going through it, too. What's so wrong with that? I don't think there's any.

[Caller 2]

It's just he doesn't seem to want to. I don't. Because as much as they may tell them what they want, he has to have some latitude to be a human being. You think if he shows any human quality, they've had him this long, he immediately gets a call from Cashman. What do we say about personality, Aaron? What do we say?

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, so you get called on the carpet once or twice.

[Don Hahn]

Cash does it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's the big deal?

[Caller 2]

That's the thing. Cash let's loose completely. Cash goes on full cursing meltdown.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You've admitted, even yesterday. What'd you say yesterday, Peter?

[Caller 2]

Many things.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Cashman's, you know, family is. He's in the family, all right? He's everything but blood. He's right. He. He.

[Caller 2]

And that's true.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's. He's the Consulary. Right? He's. But still, they found them off to Tom Hagen. They found him off the street. Made him a. Made him a. Made him a brother. And Aaron's not that. The manager's not that. But every once in a while, would it be so wrong to just. All Right. You know what I got? I get called in the office and they. They slap me on the wrist and say, bad press conference, Aaron, and go, okay. But you know what? I think it helped the club. I think it was good that I did that. He always talks about Michael, always would bring up. He's in the room. He's part of the analytics. He agrees. So I think that every once in a while, showing that you're human, I think would go a long way to having the players and the fans and everybody just kind of embrace what right now is a tough stretch. Again, not the end of the world, but still. But it's something, man.

[Don Hahn]

It is so funny.

[Peter Rosenberg]

People aren't buying this garbage.

[Don Hahn]

I know it's 40 years, but it is amazing how different things are when you consider that at one time, actually five times, Billy Martin managed this organization. Right. Well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And George owned it. George would love it.

[Don Hahn]

It's just like. It's incredible how far that thing has turned completely around.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, who did George love? He was the one that nicknamed Paul o' Neill the Warrior.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because what would he do? He would beat a Gatorade bucket with his bat. He'd break his bat over. Because he wore it right. He wore his heart on his sleeve. And George loved that this organization isn't about that.

[Don Hahn]

And he hated Arabu because of what he looked like physically. Right. Like, he hated that if you looked. If you. If you did not look the part, if you didn't look like a warrior, if you didn't look like you cared, he would call you out for that as well. And there was just something about that that fans appreciated. It's a lot of New York to that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know, which is.

[Don Hahn]

This is way more corporate. And I don't think as much as this is the big city with a lot of corporations, I don't think New Yorkers like corporate.

[Caller 2]

No. And the Yankees are the most corporate of the bunch, for sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The post game press conference is important to the Yankees. Well, then I think that means that the fans reaction is important.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I don't think the fans are buying any of this. Ruben in New Haven, you're on. Don Hanna, Rosenberg.

[Caller 1]

Gentlemen, before I start, I've got you on speaker. Can you hear me okay?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah, no problem.

[Don Hahn]

Thank you.

[Caller 1]

Perfect, perfect, perfect. Gentlemen, I think you got it slightly wrong. I agree. It's not a big deal. Done. We're probably making a mountain out of a molehill. But you're asking Boone to tap dance for the fans. I mean, if it happens naturally, it happens like the examples you brought up with playoffs and all that stuff. That's a different sport and a different mentality and a different culture. We saw with Soto earlier this year. Your mind state is everything in baseball. If you're, if you're, you know, if you're. If everything is just, oh, woe is me, the world is that. I mean, it's not going to work.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can't you react to the moment? You've just lost five straight games. You've been shut out three consecutive times. Don't sell me a bill of goods. No, everything's fine. If it's not fine, I'm not telling you he's got to lose it. But can you. Why does everything have to be rosy? Everything's fine when it's clearly not fine? Why can't you react to the moment and handle it and just show that you're human?

[Caller 1]

I hear you, Don. I hear you, but I don't. I don't dis. I don't disagree with Boone, that everything's fine. It's. It's a long season. It's a long season.

[Caller 2]

So what's the line? What's the line, Ruben? When's the. When's the day that they have, you know, under five hits, no runs. One run and you go, okay, this is a problem.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like how?

[Caller 2]

I'm just. I'm not saying you're wrong, but how many more games would it be before you go, what the hell's going on here?

[Caller 1]

If they lost 15 in a row. Oh, my God, what's going on?

[Caller 2]

You're saying. You're saying it requires Billy Ripken being in the conversation again, 15 in a row.

[Caller 1]

More important than winning, Ruben, you don't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Think that when something happens that hasn't happened since 1960, so not until they're.

[Don Hahn]

Under.500 does this guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They have not had a 5 run through 6 game span since 1968. No team in the history of baseball has been shut out three straight times and struck out more than 10 times in each game in the history of baseball. I mean, listen, you're good. You're a positive guy. Good for you. But every once in a while, I've got to roll with the punches. I get it. But there's other times I've got to react to the moment. And if all you're going to be is a robot and everything's unicorn and rainbows, I'm going to keep using that until it gets through everybody's head. Then you know what? Well, then I can't believe anything that's going on because your players, whether it's closed door or not, had a meeting. Things have happened that haven't happened in centuries and you're going to tell me it's all good? Don't worry about it. We always turn the page. We're a great team. Well then I just can't buy it. Cuz you're telling me in the entire length of time we've been here, by the way, no championships in that span. One league championship in that span. Everything's great? I mean, come on. And that's not genuine, that's not real. That's why we joke about Michael never getting in a fight with Jody. Does that make sense? You've been married to a woman for 15 years. You never had one fight. There's something wrong with that. Cuz human beings fight, human beings argue, they have disagreements and if they don't, something's wrong.

[Caller 2]

It would be right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It just, it would be wrong.

[Caller 2]

The question is, with Michael, was he lying or is it the arrangement thing that you've alluded to?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's always on the table. I don't say things without him having some truth to it.

[Caller 2]

You don't say these things like that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to drag Michael through the mud. But the point is, is that it's all about reacting to things that happen in real time. Yes, it's 162 games. But you're telling me, Ruben, it would take a 15 game losing streak for, for him to lose it.

[Don Hahn]

They'd be under 500 then. No, that's when you're going to get mad. Oh, well, let's see. The winning record.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you didn't get mad when. So you don't get mad when you lose five in a row? 10 in a row? No, 12, 13, 14. But 15, you know. Okay, whatever. Mike in Connecticut, what do you got?

[Caller 1]

Yeah, Don, I mean the whole thing is like there's 162 games, they've got a few losses, they're struggling to hit, they're struggling to score.

[Don Hahn]

Is it bad?

[Caller 1]

Yes. But this is baseball. I mean, I'm not going to freak out in the middle of June. If this was September, you have something, but we're not there yet. I feel like it's way too early.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let me ask you something. Why do we watch or even do a show? Like if everything is, oh, it's baseball, it's no big, then why even engage more than that? Why watch? Why talk about it? I'm on the air for three and a half hours, four hours every Day.

[Don Hahn]

If you don't mind, I just want to ask Mike. And, Mike, you're a diehard Yankees fan. Yes.

[Caller 3]

Love the Yankees.

[Don Hahn]

Love the Yankees. Okay. So we. You and I, we love the Yankees. I don't like the way it looked. That's what bothered me. I'm with you. There's going to be losses in a season. There might even be three in a row. You're going to have bad patches where, you know, guys aren't hitting, the pitcher gets bombed, the bullpen just as bad. We know that's part of baseball. But what. What's bothering me since the Red Sox series is what it looks like, and you know what I'm talking about. Mike, if you're a diehard fan, you know what I'm talking about. That's the part that I felt like, yeah, I would want the door closed and for Judge to turn around and look at everybody go, guys, that's what we did in the World Series. We can't be that team again. And it's got to stop now. You know what I mean? It's not about. That's. That's the part that worried me.

[Caller 1]

But two weeks ago, we were talking about how they were gonna run away with the division. Like, can we. I mean, I just don't think we're at the point where we should be worrying yet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm not asking. The fire. Boom.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm not over it. I'm just saying, why does every time something negative happen, it's got to be spun into a positive? It's like, it doesn't feel genuine to me. You've lost five in a row. Shut up. This team. Shut up. Three. Like, if it doesn't matter, then why do we watch?

[Caller 1]

Well, let me get one more comment.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Caller 1]

I will say that I love the Savages in the box comment. I'm with you. Something like that would be awesome and would fire me up as a fan. I don't think it's necessary right now. Mid June. Maybe if we were a little later in the season. I feel you, but I just don't think they have to go that extreme yet. I get your point. You're not totally wrong, but I don't like the extremism.

[Don Hahn]

Here's where I'll agree with you, Mike. I do think that Boone probably sits at the podium after these games and says, I could detonate, but it feels too early and it'll look like panic.

[Caller 2]

How many years do we have to wait? Well, he hasn't detonated in a long time. How many years? Ago was Savage in the box five.

[Don Hahn]

But that was on the field again.

[Caller 2]

And that was on the field. So he's never.

[Don Hahn]

And that was him protecting his guys and all that stuff like with the umpire. And he still does that.

[Caller 2]

You see him from the dugout.

[Don Hahn]

He gets after it.

[Caller 2]

But by the way, that's the safest place for him to do it because the only people he's criticizing are umpires.

[Don Hahn]

That's right. And everybody and the team loves that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But.

[Don Hahn]

But in the media, I think they're there. If I agree with Mike, he is right. If this was August, maybe there's a little more of heightened concern, guys. But you don't want to look like you're panicking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I am not.

[Don Hahn]

I would just say I don't like the way this looks. We've got to get rid of that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I'm not asking for it to even be a motivating factor. I'm just asking to react as a human being to your team losing five in a row. Like I understand being overwhelmingly positive if that's who you were by nature. But I'm sorry, Aaron, I watched you play the Savages in the box. I don't believe that was performative. I don't even believe it was the fire of the team. I think you're red hot about the strike zone. You lost it. You ran onto the field and you ripped into the umpire. So I know you're capable of doing it, but you don't ever in the press conference. That to me seems performative, where you're holding back and just. You won't say anything negative again. I don't think it's destroying the team or even motivating. Just to be a realist and say this is inexcusable. You're. What did Michael K. Say at the end of the game? Like it's inconceivable that this team could be shut out three straight times. He was being honest. He spoke honestly about the situation.

[Caller 2]

Inconceivable.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So why can't the managers say the same thing? This cannot stand.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you could always accent it by that would be good. But right now I don't like what I'm seeing here. Good thing they met. Cuz this is inexcusable.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm not asking him to turn over the table. I'm not asking him to set fire to the press conference. I'm not asking him to be fired.

[Don Hahn]

It feels like someone went to him and said, if you're asked about team meeting, there was no team meeting. Make sure you make that clear because it's a sign of panic.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, my God.

[Don Hahn]

They had a team meeting already in June. They must be panicking in that. Like, I think that's what they're afraid is putting out some type of a suggestion that there's panic in the ranks this early in the season.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just think to the point of Ruben and to the point of the last caller. It's a long season, but you know what we watch. I'm on the air talking about it. You're asking me, wake me up in October. Well, that's not how things work. React to things in real time, and if you want to be upset about it, just react in a normal fashion.

[Caller 2]

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Caller 2]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Game Time is brought to you by Tully. More new Irish whiskey. Because when it's game time, guys. Yeah, it's Cholich time.

[Don Hahn]

Trying to think of who that sounds like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know.

[Don Hahn]

It sounds like somebody is no longer with us. Kenny Rogers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, wow.

[Don Hahn]

Right at the end when you go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Charm maybe a little bit. Mets continue their series with the Braves with coverage immediately following us. Aaron Neville at 6:35 on 880. And the Yankees and Angels will continue their series of the stadium at 7:05.

[Don Hahn]

Little rain tonight, but it shouldn't be too bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh yeah, it feels like thunderstorms because it was, like, humid. We went to the roof today and boy was boiling. But I loved every second of it because I saw the sun and we haven't seen it in so long. Tullamore Dew. The original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Telemore Dew responsibly.

[Don Hahn]

So when it says 20% rain in the Bronx at 7pm and 8pm what is 20% like? I've always wondered. Is 20% meaning 20% chance? It means 100% chance in 20% of the area.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See, this is different. I've heard that the Bronx is a good chance it's gonna rain.

[Don Hahn]

It's not a big area. It's the Bronx.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, see that's why I've heard both, Anthony. So I'm not saying you're wrong. I've heard that, that it's 100% gonna rain, but only 20% of the area. But I've also heard that there's a 20% chance it's gonna rain. So it may not rain at all because Alan's right. How are you pinpointing 20% of the Bronx? It's not that big. You know, if you say 20% of New York.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well then that's easy.

[Don Hahn]

What 20% party?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Really? I mean 20% of the problem. But it's going to. It's going to rain in a three block area.

[Don Hahn]

Does it go by districts when gerrymanders does it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right, it's going to rain at Hunts Point.

[Don Hahn]

Exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's.

[Don Hahn]

It just Hunts Point Terminal Market. Just there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I. Right over there's a 20% chance it's.

[Don Hahn]

Going to rain for road.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Somebody will let us know.

[Don Hahn]

The zoo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to leave the Mets out on all this either. That was an awful loss. And Alvarez has got I think met fans concern. He hasn't hit coming back from that hambone injury and maybe that's why he's not hitting. But he threw behind the runner in the 10th inning, basically cost him the game. He got fouled up with Garrett on the. The game tying double from Ozuna called the wrong pitch. They weren't on the same page.

[Don Hahn]

It was a great catch.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He took blame for that. But you wonder, is he a championship caliber catcher? He's been a bit of a problem. Now Mendoza defended him on throwing the second yesterday. Mendoza spoke today before the game. Have you seen anything from Alvarez that shows he'll turn it around?

[Caller 2]

Yeah, I do.

[Don Hahn]

I feel like he's on time for the fastball.

[Caller 2]

Yesterday he wasn't.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't see that in particular.

[Caller 2]

But I'm going to go back to the past week where I feel like he's hitting the ball in there. You know, there's, he's, he's hitting the ball hard. There's, you know, 108, 105. Something that we didn't see early on when he got back from the injury.

[Don Hahn]

I like some of the takes, some of the breaking balls that he's taking. I know he's working and he hasn't been easy for him. But the one thing with Alby, he's.

[Caller 2]

Very positive and he'll continue to grind.

[Don Hahn]

So all that condenses, he's make. He's making contact, making good contact, right? That's kind of what he's saying there. He's getting over.100 on his Velo exit velocity. So they're hoping that it's going to turn to something again. These guys this time of year, they have to be this way. But the Met lost the later part of the innings. They left some runs on the field, right, with some of their own base running errors and just things that they did that felt like they also struggled with the fundies later in that game. But I asked you earlier, you know, bad sign or just a bad game? You want to believe it's a bad game, but I just like to continue to point out the Braves are a thorn in the side team in your history and you're going down there and you talked about you can, you could drive a stake through this team over the next 10 days, you're going to play them twice. And that's what I wanted to see. Like, are the Mets going into these series not looking at the Braves record but saying, no, no, no, it's the effing Braves, we're taking them out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then we've got a 41 lead and we just got, we got to play better baseball now. It's all relative, right? Because over the last 30 games, Alvarez is hitting.225, one home run, seven RBI. In the last 15, he's batting.200, but in the last seven, he's batting 2.22, right? So you could say, well, it's starting to get better. I'm not a baseball expert, so if he's going to tell me that the exit Velo's better, as Boone has said, they're barreling up. You could always find some positive. But ultimately it's a result business, right? You got to hit, you got to get on base, you got to start producing. He's our catcher. It's a power position.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And now there's real conversation on whether to. Renz should be the full time catcher. He's a better defensive catcher. So these are the things that kind of worry you about the Mets. I wanted to throw that out there. 1-800-919-3776. Nick is in. Emerson, you're on ESPN New York.

[Caller 4]

Hello, boys.

[Caller 1]

How are you? Long time no talk. I think it's been, what, 48 hours?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, one of the.

[Caller 1]

Yeah, something like that. Well, the Yankees just keep getting more and more disgusting. So I figure I call in real quick, though, before I get to my Yankee point. Alan, Don, I just, I want to talk to Peter on the side. Peter. Goldberg's reaction, the crowd pop was unbelievable on Monday.

[Caller 2]

It was.

[Caller 1]

Everything you read on Twitter is like, oh, we don't want Goldberg. And then the live crowds like Goldberg. It was crazy to me.

[Caller 2]

Well, it's one of. No, it's one of those things where that, like, no matter how much you can say objectively, like what. Why his matches haven't been good. He's 58 years old. You see him show up, he looks like a million bucks still. And it's, you know, pops, you, it's right. It's your childhood. I'll be excited on Saturday's main event to see him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You.

[Caller 1]

You ain't kidding. Me and you both, Peter. And when he did the leg kick with the fireworks, I was like, damn, he still got.

[Caller 2]

I mean, listen, the match. Let's talk after the match and see how it goes. But it seemed great, though.

[Caller 1]

True. I'll call in after that. But I appreciate the two seconds to my Yankee point, guys. I know I called in complaining on Monday. Don, Peter, I gave you guys your roses for the accountability comments that you've always said. And I do want to say this because I know everybody's ripping on Boone right now. A fish rots from the head down and that's Cashman. Okay? So when these players aren't hitting, that's the guys that he's putting in that lineup or that he, that he signed to put in that lineup. However, to all your guys. Point. And to Don specifically saying, I want to see it, I want to see it. Why is everything so positive? Aaron Boone is an absolute puppet. Let me real quick, trivia question. How many playoff series has this guy won in seven years against a team that's not the AL Central?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would, I would think the answer is none.

[Caller 2]

Zero.

[Caller 1]

It is absolutely zero. They have won no series against a team outside the AL Central who we clearly have owned since at least in my lifetime. And I'm 32 years old. We had Joe Girardi, who granted, had his fault. He took a 2017 rebuilding team to Game 7 against a cheating Astros team and he got canned because he was rude to Gary Sanchez, who was gone three years later.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sorry, go ahead. But that tells you that this is. Aaron Boone is giving the Yankees exactly what they want. That's why Michael always said if they let go of Boone, they would just bring in somebody exactly like Aaron Boone. They want. They want this. And I don't think the general public wants it because it just does. It just seems like an act. It's just too frustrating sometimes to see Steve in middle reach. You're on ESPN New York.

[Caller 4]

Well, guys, thank you for taking the call. I really appreciate it. I want to give you kudos because I've listened to the OK show and your show. This show is one of the best podcasts or whatever anybody wants to hear. You really got into stuff. I used to think I was a sports person. You really got into the guts of a lot of things. And I really appreciate the show. I've been on hold now. I've been listening the entire show. I really appreciate it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, thank you, Steve.

[Caller 2]

Thank you, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Appreciate you, man.

[Don Hahn]

Awesome.

[Caller 1]

Thank you.

[Caller 4]

You gave me so many ideas, but my original call was this. And that's about. You're talking about Judge, not winning championships. Etc. Etc. You inspired me to buy a book that. And you guys mentioned it about the old Sports Illustrated. I read excerpt about Babe Ruth was a biography by Robert Creamer, a great author. And I actually bought the book and I'm beginning to read it the last two or three days. So you're actually making me buy all old books. And he made the point about how great Babe Ruth was. And I think about Judge. He's a fine player. I hate to say it, but he almost has to win something to be considered one of the greats of the greats in the. In the Yankee, you know, in Yankee history. But one other thing I want to mention is that we're 25 years into the 21st century. I don't think that Yankee fans should begin. Should continue to compare people in this century prior to 1975, because it was a completely different game. And I'm 72 years. I'll be 72 this year. You can't compare people to prior to 1975. It's a completely different ball game. And I thank you for taking the call and.

[Caller 2]

Well, thank you for that, Steve. And I'll tell you this, I don't know about. I don't know if the line I draw is 1975.

[Don Hahn]

That's 50 years. Right.

[Caller 2]

But I will say making the comps to Gehrig and Ruth gets tough. Those ones start to be when the guy was batting seven times and throwing 140 pitches. It. It's a tough comp in terms of the sport that we're even playing here. I don't know if the line guys is 75 or where you think the line starts to be more reasonable.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think it's the first line to me is the diversity. If you want to go post Jackie Robinson when everybody was eligible to play the game, into grace. Yeah. So if you want to say 1941, that's still going back 80 something years. But that, that could be a line if you want to go to where they expanded the playoffs, where they went from two divisions in each league rather than just having the one league. So that would be 1969. So that at least brings it a little bit closer to the modern era. So I think 50 years is a nice round number. But you know, I do think the Ruth and Garrick stuff. Babe Ruth played his last game as a New York Yankee in 1934. I remember he played 92 games in Boston with the Boston Braves in 35 in 1935. That's 90 years ago.

[Caller 2]

My grandparents who are no longer with us and they lived long lives. Both of my, I'm talking about my dad's parents, both lived, I think into their 90s, made my grandfather close. They were teenagers when Ruth retired. These are people who have been gone for a while and lived old, long lives. It's a crazy comp tv.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If you want to say that, you've got to be five or six. Like, what's your farthest memory when it comes to sports?

[Caller 2]

Me? Yeah, right around five.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, so you want to say five. That means in order to say that you saw Ruth as a Yankee, you'd have to be 95, 96 years old to say that you saw Ruth like as a five year old. So we're getting to the point where there's nobody on earth that remembers Ruth playing. Yeah, that's a long time ago. So there's no, it's all documented, but nobody's able to say I saw Ruth play and he did this compared to what Ken Griffey Jr. Did. Maybe they, maybe you could because that was 30 years ago. But right now there is maybe a handful of people that can intelligently say, I saw Ruth, I saw Judge. Here's what I think. There might be seven people on the planet that could do that, right? And as each day goes by and.

[Caller 2]

It'S not like the footage we have of Ruth is great, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it's all just that. And a lot of it, even the 50s stuff, is you, you, you would see. There would be a shot from the ground up where there'd be a fake like a practice swing. You'd hear a crack of a bat and then some fuzzy image of the.

[Caller 2]

Ball landing some and someone running too fast, double speed around the bases, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just, just because we wanted to get it over with. Because again, we were at war. 1-800-919-3776. Lots to do here on Don Hun and Rosenberg, of course. Enn's coming up at 6:00 right here on ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

Hey everybody, Alan Holland here to tell you about my friends at Bath Fitter. They remodeled a bath in my house. My wife's excited about this, the whole family really is, because we updated this bathroom that we didn't really use by our pool, converting the tub that was old and decrepit and really you didn't want to even step in this thing into this gorgeous shower that now we can use for the summer when guests come over, use the pool and also when the kids have sleepovers. Bathroom Consultant took us through the process with their free at home consultation to pick the style and color as well as all the specifics accessories to update our bath customized just the way Stephanie wanted it. Bathroom worked fast. We're talking about two days and that's it. They were done. Delivered the highest quality work without delay. Bathfitter is a permanent solution. A one piece seamless wall for a watertight fit and most importantly, a lifetime guarantee. You can trust the Bath Fitter team like we did. They've been in business for 40 years with millions of happy customers and right now you can get no interest, no payments until 2027. So start designing your bath like we did. Visit bathfitter.com for more details. There is only one bath. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Caller 2]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The ESPN New York Beach Bash is back. Friday, June 27th at Bar A in Lake Como, New Jersey. Head down to the Jersey shore and join the Michael K Show and us live, starting at one piece and an appearance by Dpietro Rothenberg, Bart Carlin and more. We'll have plenty of giveaways for fans in attendance and music from suit and Mai Tai and overboard. It's all brought to you by flight by Yingling Spiked Aid, New Jersey Lottery, and Scheffer Hoffer Grapefruit. Here comes the happy. I wasn't expecting that. They changed that.

[Don Hahn]

Here comes the happy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here comes the happy.

[Caller 2]

Hello.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You ever say it's 21 years or older to enter?

[Don Hahn]

You ever said that before in your life?

[Caller 2]

Here comes the happy.

[Don Hahn]

Here comes the happy.

[Caller 2]

You know, I've never.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let me see. I have. I have a picture in my mind.

[Don Hahn]

You ever think you might say it?

[Caller 2]

I'd like to move on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. At this rate, who am I saying it to And. And who I say it?

[Don Hahn]

I mean.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, I doubt it very.

[Don Hahn]

There should only be one answer, Doc. Well, who am I saying it to?

[Caller 2]

There should be. Yeah, but what he's saying is that one person would say, I'm good. I'm all set.

[Don Hahn]

We start cackling, laughing, and say.

[Caller 2]

You say, we're all set. We're all set.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Only way to respond, because let's be honest, if you're saying it to your wife, here comes that after 20 years of marriage and two kids, the only response is laughter.

[Caller 2]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, honestly, what is it? We mean a sitcom, but it's funny.

[Caller 2]

Yeah. It wouldn't go.

[Don Hahn]

You don't try to make her laugh every now and then. That's funny.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But not at that moment. You know, that's not the response you want when you're like, here comes the happy.

[Don Hahn]

You could just throw. Completely. Just totally off guard. You catch it. Totally off guard.

[Caller 2]

She wouldn't even know what you were talking about. Here comes the happy. Doesn't even make sense now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are you having a stroke?

[Caller 2]

Here comes the happy. Here comes the happy is what should be said moments before Robert Kraft leaves Orcas of Asia.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh.

[Caller 2]

You know what I'm saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a nice code.

[Caller 2]

Here comes apple.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How serious is this massage?

[Caller 2]

Here comes that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How good are you at finishing your job? On that note, wow. How about some Dick Richard of Manhattan? No, no. It's a bridge too far.

[Don Hahn]

No, that was good. That was perfect.

[Caller 2]

It's a bridge to.

[Caller 3]

Allen. You forgot to mention on the 79 Seattle team, one of the greatest six men in the history of basketball and the greatest nickname, Freddie Downtown Brown. Now, you guys mentioned Billy Martin and somebody mentioned 50 years ago. Well, exactly 50 years ago today. George's first great move as a Yankee owner. He brought Billy back to the Yankees 1975. Also during that 1975, in baseball, one of the greatest things I've ever seen never happened since Fred Lynn. Jim Rice came two rookies and did what they did for the Red Sox, brought him to within one game of the World Series. I never seen that in baseball. Now, ironically, four years later, Magic and Larry would do the same thing in the NBA, although on separate teams. Now fellas, as far as baseball, Tampa has the second best world record in baseball. Better than the Yankees, better than the Dodgers, better than the Mets, better than the Phillies, better than San Diego. Explain that to me, fellas. A guy better than Charles Barkley who didn't get a ring, Elgin Bala, don't forget him. He technically was on the 72 team, but he retired.

[Don Hahn]

He didn't get the ring.

[Caller 3]

Didn't get the ring. Okay, guys in New York who didn't get rings. Stoudelmeier, Mel, Dave Winfield, Bobby Mercer. Don, I'm surprised at you. Your dad told me this one. Ya tittle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's on you.

[Don Hahn]

He said, why a tittle did say.

[Caller 3]

Ya titch. Okay, Eddie Jackman, John Matlak. Was Rusty staub on the 86 Mets? I don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he retired in 85.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, another guy, Come on, another guy, right?

[Caller 3]

Okay. Lastly, I'm going to leave you guys with this. Alan, you'll love this. Let's make a list of NBA players. Let's keep it with NBA. Of the greatest players from day one until they retired. Under all of this, I'll go number one, Lu Alcinder. Kareem Abdul Jabbar from day one he was fantastic. Number two, Magic Johnson from day one till he retired. Fantastic. Number three, Larry Bird from day one to he retired. Fantastic. And number four, Tim Duncan from day one. Now there are the guys. Maybe Patrick, maybe Akeem, but I'm not sure I go with those four. If you can get anybody above those four, let me know. That was always a pleasure.

[Caller 2]

Okay, I'm the. I'm the.

[Don Hahn]

He's not listening.

[Caller 2]

I'm the biggest Larry Bird fan you'll find. Especially at the end of his career. I was obsessed. I was. I was 11 years old. It was. I watched every. I woke up every morning, ran downstairs to see Larry Bird's box. Or Larry of the last couple of years when he was dealing with the serious back stuff was better than most, remember, but not as good as Richard just described him.

[Don Hahn]

Near as good as.

[Caller 2]

If you were to actually look at it. If you were to actually look at it. Jordan better. Wizards. Jordan was probably better than late Larry.

[Don Hahn]

I would agree.

[Caller 2]

We just held him to such a standard because it was Bulls. Micha.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, there are.

[Caller 2]

There are a bunch of people who are better than Larry.

[Don Hahn]

Can't say LeBron, because LeBron was a child when he entered the league. And so that first. The first year or two, it was learning curve and stuff like that.

[Caller 2]

And Shaq fell off at the end. He was bouncing around the whole league.

[Don Hahn]

Somebody go pick up Shaq. Yeah, that. That would happen a lot. But you can't say Shaq.

[Caller 2]

How was Charles at the end?

[Don Hahn]

Barkley.

[Caller 2]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Rocket. Sparkly.

[Caller 2]

He's still pretty good.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, he was still good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, Jordan. Because Jordan retired and then came back to play with Washington.

[Caller 2]

Yeah, no problem. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

But he still averaged 20.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, he averaged in 01, 02, 22.9.

[Don Hahn]

But we all know it didn't look.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then his last year at 39, he averaged an even 20.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, it didn't look good, though. Like he had a moment or two, but it didn't look good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He averaged 20.

[Don Hahn]

By the way, do you remember his. You know, like, we remember last games. Do you remember Michael Jordan's last game? Probably, because we did know it was his last game. Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I remember his last game at the Garden.

[Don Hahn]

I argue, by the way, we had.

[Caller 2]

A good idea it was the end.

[Don Hahn]

Like, great start to finish. Vince Carter. Yeah, Vince Carter's last game, he was still, like, still really good. I wouldn't say he's one of the best. I guess maybe he's saying best in.

[Caller 2]

The league, but that's why he's wrong on Larry.

[Don Hahn]

So Vince Carter wasn't best as good as Larry was. He had a great career.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But at 39 years old, Michael Jordan averaged 20 points a game, played every game.

[Don Hahn]

Was magic.

[Caller 2]

Best 82 games. He overstated Magic at the end, too.

[Don Hahn]

Magic as well, because, remember, he went.

[Caller 2]

Through the HIV thing and then he came back. He was still good.

[Don Hahn]

Still good, but not best in the league at that point.

[Caller 2]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And then Bird, his power. By the way, Bird's only 35 when he retired.

[Caller 2]

And I bet Larry averaged what 22 is last year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

His last year, he averaged 20.2. Played in only 45 games.

[Caller 2]

What about the year before that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the year before that? 19.4. Played only 60 games.

[Caller 2]

How about the year before that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

24.3.

[Caller 2]

There you go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He played in 75.

[Caller 2]

What year was that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that was in 90. 89. 90.

[Caller 2]

Yeah. So, I mean, but he had the best.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He led the league in field goal percentage.

[Caller 2]

Well, you know, players taking good shots.

[Don Hahn]

Now again, I mean, you know, didn't mention George Mikin.

[Caller 2]

How did he not mention Mike?

[Don Hahn]

Mike and dominated the league from start to finish.

[Caller 2]

And what about Russell?

[Don Hahn]

You know what I mean? How about, by the way, Wilt, Remember Wilt came in the league later. Will came in. Will played for the Harlem Globetrotters before he came into the NBA.

[Caller 2]

Unbelievable.

[Don Hahn]

Because the money was better now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now last year for bird, he finished 14th in the MVP. Do you realize in 8990 he finished 10th? And in 1990 when he finished ninth in MVP voting All Star, his final three years in the list.

[Caller 2]

Well, all Star for sure. Which is he was cruising through All Star.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Pretty amazing stuff. Ian's coming up next here on ESPN New York.

[Caller 2]

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[Don Hahn]

The Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.