← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
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- [00:02]
Alan Hahn
With the Venmo debit card, you can turn the mini golf outing your co workers paid you back for.
- [00:08]
Peter Rosenberg
Into a trip to Miami with your best friend earning you up to 5% cash back.
- [00:14]
Alan Hahn
Use Venmo to pay for the things.
- [00:16]
Peter Rosenberg
You love to do. Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the.
- [00:23]
Alan Hahn
Bancorp Bank N A pursuant to license.
- [00:25]
Peter Rosenberg
By Mastercard International, Inc. Terms apply. Dosh cash back term supply.
- [00:30]
Alan Hahn
This is the Dun Ha at Rosenberg Podcast.
- [00:34]
Peter Rosenberg
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:36]
Alan Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. All right into the big 5:00 hour we go with Don McGregor and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan Hahn, 880 ESPN and of course, the ESPN New York app. The baseball season begins tomorrow. We told you about the Yankees there. 3:00 on ESPN. And right here on 880 at 3:30 begins the coverage of the new Mets season. The Mets in Houston to take on the Astros. The first pitch a little after 4:00. The man on the call, Howie Rose, one of my favorite people in this business joining us right now. Howie, how we doing? It's Alan, Don and Peter.
- [01:17]
Howie Rose
Been so long. You got the Islanders lines for tonight. Everything set? Been a long time, man.
- [01:24]
Alan Hahn
It certainly has been. I didn't see who the last goalie off was. I did not see who the last goalie off was this morning. You know, if you want to start there, Don and I were, we lost our minds about that. The goal that was waved off the other night, I don't know if you saw it, but, you know, going through replay and review and all the things that go, it's almost like, why even bother reviewing it if you're not gonna, you know, make a call that we all saw with our own eyes, you know.
- [01:51]
Howie Rose
You know, I mean, I used to talk with Butchie about this on the air all the time when I was doing the Islanders. I don't even know what constitutes goaltender inter anymore. It's become so almost incidental and ambiguous and just almost at the whim of an official. And now even sometimes the replay officials, I mean, it's just, it's gotten out of hand. But, you know, unfortunately, the technology has gotten so good that it's sometimes to the detriment of the pace and flow of the game and sometimes it even affects common sense.
- [02:24]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, Dave Maloney brings that up all the time, too. And we have that long replay for an offside. You know, the Energy gets taken out of the building and it's like, come on, it does get a little ridiculous.
- [02:36]
Howie Rose
I have a couple of. Well, think about it in baseball, right, Real quickly, all the plays at first base, so many of those which are overturned or simply challenged, neither manager would argue if there was no system for review. You know, they're bang, bang plays. You're safe, you're out. It's that close. And I don't think either manager would even argue a play that often gets reviewed, which is, you know, kind of what makes the whole thing sometimes so annoying.
- [03:01]
Peter Rosenberg
But with the goalie interference, it just came down to the pass interference. In the NFL, you cannot replay a judgment call. It did it cross the line? Is it offside? Those are easy black and white plays. But when you start getting into judgment, it's all in the eye of the beholder, and it just takes too long. And it's also inconsistent because then somebody will show me a replay of an exact same thing where they allowed the goal. And it just very, very frustrating. But opening day's glorious and it's a holiday and we're looking forward to especially Met fans. But the one thing I want to get into, Howie, because we both grew up Met fans, and we also grew up in a time where the Mets didn't own the town. You know, Nimmos comments, you're hearing a lot. Why does it seem so important who owns the town? I want to win a championship, Howie. I don't care who owns the town, who's more popular. The Islanders weren't giving up their four straight Stanley Cups because the Rangers were more popular. You know, like, why do they. Why do we seem to always get caught up in who's the more popular team who owns the town? Can we just focus on ourselves and win some games?
- [04:02]
Howie Rose
You know, that makes perfect sense. But I think what's happened over the years is that the dialogue has become prevalent via social media. So it's not as though, you know, you sample a few phone calls to a radio talk show such as what we're on right now. That used to be the gist of it, right? Say, when Tom Seaver was traded back in 1977, you know, John Sterling was the only guy doing a talk show. In fact, you know, the guy who was filling in for him the night that Seaver was traded, Larry Brooks. Larry was doing. I remember hearing him. Larry was doing the show. So, yeah, and that was the only talk show in town. Now with social media, everybody's got an opinion, everybody's got an outlet to vent their opinion or their frustration or their anger or their ecstasy, whichever. And so, you know, we have a sort of more intuitive feel for how the fans are leaning one way or the other. But I want, you know, I don't care just, you know, as long as the team you're rooting for wins, who cares about the rest of them?
- [05:04]
Peter Rosenberg
We've been talking this week about the lack of a story that opening day pitchers are. Howie, it's like, it really seems like it means less than ever. But in general, Howie, it seems like the starting pitcher sort of means less than ever. How do you view pitching at this point and are you a little bit less exciting when it comes to pitching matchups in 2025 baseball?
- [05:27]
Howie Rose
Well, it goes way before 2025 now, you know, the starting pitcher is far from irrelevant, of course, but he's not the game long factor that he used to be because of the way usage of the bullpens have evolved and efforts to protect pitchers have evolved. And yet they're all getting hur, which is a whole other story. But I miss the days when Seaver and Carlton would go at it on opening day, or Koufax and Marichal would face off during a season several times. The game has evolved to a different point now, and I would love to see it go back to where the starting pitcher is the dominant force that he was really almost two generations ago now. But somebody would have to be really brave. In other words, if you get a team that like the Marlins, for example, I mean, that's a rock bottom franchise, right? So, you know, somebody would have to come in on the ground floor and stipulate from day one that from now on, any pitcher that we bring into the organization through the draft or a free agent signing, as I'm talking about a young pitcher, you know, we're going to. We're going to groom him the way pitchers used to be groomed. It doesn't necessitate max effort with every pitch. We know now why so many of these pitches are getting hurt. And largely it's because every pitch is max effort. And that doesn't start in the big leagues. It doesn't even start in the minor leagues. It starts in travel ball because you have all these showcases and all they care about is velocity. We'll teach him how to pitch. Later. He could throw 98. We'll teach him to pitch. Baloney. Too many of them don't know how to pitch, don't learn how to pitch and blow out their arms in the process. So if somebody were to come into an organization that's building from the ground up and said, you know, effectively, we're going to go back to grooming our pitchers to go as deep as they can, meaning adding and subtracting and, you know, learning how to pitch in a way that they're really. That they don't stress much anymore. I'd be interested to see how that would work out, but it would take years and years for an organization to see the fruits of that effort.
- [07:30]
Alan Hahn
I'm so glad you said that, Howie, because if you had asked fans, you know, how all we do now is talk about how do you make the sport better, how can we sell the sport to the next generation? How do you do that? And it's always about rules, changes and changes made. What you just said is essentially going back to something that you knew worked. If you asked fans, what change would you like to see that? What you just said is exactly as I'm listening to you say it. All I kept thinking to myself was, yeah, that's exactly where baseball should go back to. That's the change. The change back.
- [08:05]
Howie Rose
Honestly, I would love to see it, but I don't think it's ever going to happen because I think the investment would be too long, and there are too many other factors involved, such as what I mentioned, going back to when these pitchers are kids. But, you know, the other side of that equation is that the people who favor this system will say, well, look, you know, why not go max effort for five innings when I've got five guys in the bullpen who throw 98 to 100 and I can bring them in one at a time? Now what happens is that the game becomes a crapshoot. You're looking for the guy to blow the game rather than rewarding the guy who pitched a good inning or can't run him out for a second inning, then he won't be able to stand up straight for three days? You know, it's unfortunate that it's come to that, but there's got to be a way around it. And I just. I miss the starting pitcher being not only the focal point of a game, but one of its greatest, you know, sales opportunities. People would pick up the paper back in the old days and say, hey, Seavers, pitching against Gibson tonight, I gotta go. That doesn't exist anymore.
- [09:04]
Peter Rosenberg
No. And you just see the way the Mets have designed their rotation. Now, they got burned a little bit because of the injuries, but even more to the point, if these guys are going to get hurt on me, Howie, and they're not going to go deep into games anyway. Then why invest $30 million a year to a guy for 10 years? Is that Stern's philosophy of try to make it a little bit more transient? Don't get locked in, try to catch lightning in a bottle like they did with Severino and Quintana last year. Is that the general philosophy Stern has with a rotation?
- [09:32]
Howie Rose
Well, general is probably a good word because it's not that simple. For example, they were in hard on Yamamoto last year. Why? Because he's young. You know, why did they go as high as they did for Soto? Because he's only 26. And I think that's the intelligent way to go about player procurement now. Throw the big bucks at the elite players if they're young, if you're buying into the prime of their careers prior to signing Soto, the best free agent I think the Mets ever signed, I don't think it's really an argument was Carlos Beltran, because largely they bought the prime years of his career, which is what they're doing with Soto now, which is what they tried to do with Yamamoto. But I'm completely on board with not going seven years or eight years for a guy like say, Corbin Burns or, you know, Blake Snell or any of the others who are in that general age range who either are going to break down or simply through the wear and tear of the number of innings they've thrown at, again, max effort, you know, you'd be subsidizing the back ends of their careers and rewarding them for what they did somewhere else. It's bad business to me.
- [10:40]
Alan Hahn
The great Howie Rose joining us here as the Mets season begins tomorrow. The coverage begins here on 8:80am at 3:30, the pregame. And then of course, first pitch after 4:00. So, Howie, last year was the range of emotions, wasn't it? It's incredible how what, what the emotion was at the start certainly wasn't what it was at the end of the regular season. But if I give you the equation, NLCS appearance last year plus Juan Soto equals what this year is, it heightened expectations.
- [11:11]
Howie Rose
Well, the expectations are heightened to be sure, but OMG and grimace, that was last year. Juan Soto's this year, maybe it makes it better. But the thing that I think those of us who have been around a little while understand now is that you get to game six of the lcs, you lose and you go, my goodness, they're only six wins away, six post season wins away from a world championship. But then you think about how hard it is to get back there, how long the grind is of the regular season. All of a sudden it's February and guys are reporting to spring training, and you just realize that the path ahead is so lengthy, you might as well be walking cross country. So, you know, to extrapolate from a great postseason last year and build the assumption that it gets better this year doesn't work. We've seen it way too often in the past, so I think they're in good position to challenge. I think that the division is up for grabs between three teams, most likely between the Mets and the Phillies and the Braves. Who's going to stay healthiest, who's going to get more surprising performances, the likes of which Jose Iglesias provided last year? And, you know, who's going to be disappointing, who's going to have an off year, what plan that everybody thought was foolproof is not going to work. We've got six months to figure that out now. But again, just because things went great late last year doesn't necessarily mean they translate into this year.
- [12:47]
Peter Rosenberg
I was so happy that. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
- [12:49]
Howie Rose
Oh, thanks, son.
- [12:51]
Peter Rosenberg
How do you think the dynamic works between Francisco Lindor and Juan Soto in that locker room? Obviously, Juan Soto is the best player on that team, but it's certainly started to feel like this is Francisco Lindor's team and he will be here for a very long time. How do you see that dynamic playing.
- [13:06]
Alan Hahn
Out behind the scenes?
- [13:07]
Howie Rose
I think it's a great question, and I don't know Soto yet, so I can't really voice an opinion on him based on his personality or how I perceive it, because my perception would be no different from somebody sitting in the upper deck or watching on TV every night. I don't know him yet, so I'll reserve judgment on that. One way to look at it is that I think even with Juan Soto, Francisco Lindor is the de facto captain of this team. And whether or not he wears the C or they give it to him at some point is almost irrelevant. Maybe, though, maybe he doesn't mind if Soto has the kind of personality and is of the mind. And Brandon Nimmo is this way, too, where, you know, Francisco doesn't have to do what David Wright used to do and be pretty, well, the lone guy standing in front of his locker after every game and being almost the sole explainer of why things went well or went wrong. There's enough accountability, I think, within that clubhouse so that it doesn't all have to fall on Lindor's Shoulders. And I think that relationship and that dynamic will play out organically. As I say, I think Lindor is the de facto captain and I'm not so sure Juan Soto minds that at all. But that's a perception, not anything based on conversation.
- [14:28]
Peter Rosenberg
Were you surprised how the Alonzo stuff played out and he was able to find a way to come back?
- [14:33]
Howie Rose
I wasn't surprised that it played out from the standpoint of he wasn't going to get a six or seven year deal from the Mets, not at the age of 30 for reasons we discussed earlier, even though he's not a pitcher. And you know, they've got all these biomechanical analytic metric type data that can best inform any organization of what any given player is likely to look like in year two four, six of a long term contract. And so I think that it wasn't just the Mets, but obviously everyone else around baseball put a valuation on Pete that was comfortable with big short term bucks, but not a very long term investment. I was not surprised at that at all. I did not see him getting that kind of long term offer from the Mets, but I wasn't sure what other teams would think. And as the off season played out, I think it became obvious that he wasn't going to get that anywhere else. And that's why I always thought there was a path back to the Mets for him. And look, he's making good money for at least two years. Maybe he extends at some point this year or next. But the point is, and I believe Pete because I've known him since he came up, he loves being a Met. He so loves his role here, his Persona. I think he would have done just about anything to stay. And I think that's how it played out. Now, whether that goes beyond this year, depending on the kind of season he has, he'll be a year older next year. So again, I don't expect those long term offers to be there. And if he has the kind of year where everybody's happy here because the team's winning and he's having a big season, yeah, maybe they do extend it beyond next year.
- [16:14]
Alan Hahn
I mean you saw how big Aaron Judge was for Juan Soto last year. I mean Soto had such a great season, Judge being an mvp. I mean, we're not trying to compare the two obviously, but I mean Alonso's sort of presence can only help Soto, right? You have to put as much around him as you possibly can. Does he factor in, in that, in that kind of way? The value of what he could bring could make him invaluable to the Mets because of Juan Soto?
- [16:41]
Howie Rose
Well, I don't want to. Well, it does, theoretically. I don't want to make it sound as though I'm demeaning or diminishing Pete at all. But Juan Soto is unique. He is an on base savant and he can do a lot of damage if there's not a lot of wiggle room if Pete's hitting behind him. We've learned you could pitch to Pete. You know, he's got his vulnerable areas, as we've seen down and away breaking stuff that a lot of power hitters have. And, you know, if you get into a situation that's obvious, like you got second and third in a situation where the game's on the line, first base is open, well, of course you're going to walk Soto to pitch to Pete, but, you know, it's not like Ruth and Garrick either. And I just think that teams, at least until we see what kind of year Pete is having, I think teams will take Soto out of the equation at any opportunity they can, particularly in a game situation. So, yeah, theoretically, Pete provides power, particularly, I mean, or protection, particularly from a power perspective and standpoint. But I don't know that it even matters who's behind him. They're not pitching DeSoto if the game's on the line and he's coming up and there's any option at all, in.
- [18:02]
Peter Rosenberg
My opinion, talking about Alonzo. And we saw some of the video that went viral when they played the home run call against Milwaukee on the plane ride back from Milwaukee. Listen, it didn't lead to a championship like the Matteo goal, but was there a similar connection with you and Pete the way there was with you and Matteo?
- [18:23]
Howie Rose
Yeah, that's such an interesting thing because, crazy as it sounds, I've thought about that. And I started thinking about it on June 14, 1994, when the Rangers won the Stanley Cup. And I'll tell you why. Because when I was doing post game interviews that glorious night, I was outside the locker room and there was a picture, among others on the wall of Pete Stemkowski's triple overtime goal in 1971, which beat the Blackhawks in Game 6 of one of the greatest Stanley cup playoff series I've ever seen. It was the semifinal. Selfishly, it meant a lot to me. It was the first year I had season tickets. I was 17. I felt as though I'd been suffering since 1940, even though I was only 17 years old. But in the ensuing years, because they had lost game seven in Chicago. I always would look at that picture with a bit of, I don't know, sadness or melancholy because, yeah, it was a great moment, but they didn't finish the job. When Matteo scored that goal, I thought, well, this is great for the Rangers, but that goal will become as big as however the Rangers do in the final if they win the Cup. That goal is forever. And so it's been. Pete's home run, I think, is somewhat similar, and I think he gets more of a break because the Mets did win that series, and then they won the next one, and it became a very, very special postseason in a way that that 1971 Ranger postseason didn't. That series against Chicago ended in abject disappointment. Yeah, it was sad when the Mets season ended last year, but I think everyone accepted that they went as far as they possibly could. They left nothing on the table. And given that that could have been his last, that bad as a Met and that, you know, remember now, they had been done going into that ninth inning, 16 in a row, retired. I mean, they looked absolutely cooked. And then here comes Pete with two on. He hits the home run. And it might not be a matt home moment, but I think, you know, it's going to live in an even better neighborhood than Indy Chavez's catch. Because that game ended so disappointingly, you probably perfect sense.
- [20:43]
Peter Rosenberg
But you know what? You bring up the Stemmer goal, and I've got a chance to do so many games with Stemmer, you know, back in the day, and we could be in any lobby of any hotel in any NHL city, some Ranger fan will come up to him and talk about that goal. Like, even though it didn't lead to a series win, like, it's. It really stuck with a lot of people that goal. And he taught. He talks about that, and people come up to him all the time. Fifty years later.
- [21:11]
Howie Rose
You know, he had a long career and Pete won a Stanley Cup. You know, he was with that Toronto Maple Leaf team that won the 1967 Stanley Cup. They haven't won one since. Shows you what happens when you let Stamkowski go. But it was, I think, a year or two later that he went to Detroit and onto the Rangers. But, yeah, I mean, it's just. It was one of the most phenomenal moments in Ranger history. It's tinged with regret when you look back, that they didn't win the cup that year, but that moment, yeah, that survives and lives forever.
- [21:44]
Peter Rosenberg
And Howie, just real quick as we were on that subject of the Rangers and you were tweeting or I saw you on social media about Brad park and why his number isn't up in the rafters of the Garden. But I also wonder, why do they not celebrate the Cooks and the Borcher and Lester Patrick? Why do the Rangers. I go to Montreal, I go to Toronto, and they go back to the turn of the century. Why do the Rangers just seem to only hon their history, basically from when the new Garden opened to now?
- [22:13]
Howie Rose
You are preaching to the choir, my friend. And Stan Fischler, God bless him, he continues to pump the tires of Frank Boucher and Cook. And, you know, you could even make a case, not that I was there to see it, that, you know, guys like Ching Johnson, Lester Patrick should have some sort of recognition. See, I believe in that. I totally agree with you. It's not even a recency bias anymore. But, you know, I love what the Maple Leafs do. You've been up in Toronto, you know, you've seen that they retire very few numbers, but they honor a lot of their players, too, with commemorative banners that hang from the rafters at, what is it now called Scotiabank center or whatever it is. But, you know, they still keep very few numbers retired, but they still find a way to honor players in a way that you can do with some of the guys we just spoke, and.
- [23:04]
Peter Rosenberg
I hope that because next year is the 100th anniversary, to me, that would be the perfect time to do that. It's hard to have a ceremony because everybody's already gone, but they probably could do that next year and it would make sense.
- [23:15]
Howie Rose
But they've all got families, you know, who may be three generations ahead, but, you know, those families deserve to see those players properly honored. And, man, I hope the Rangers do that next year. And I also tweeted something the other day. It wasn't my idea. I saw it from someone else on social media. But wouldn't it be cool if next year, Sam Rosen's first year of retirement after the Rangers score a Power Play goal, they ever do again at Madison Square Garden? Sorry, but that, you know, after the goal horn sound, they just pipe in Sam's call. It's a Power Play goal. That'd be so cool, wouldn't it?
- [23:53]
Peter Rosenberg
It would.
- [23:53]
Alan Hahn
Did you. We had him on Howie last week, just obviously to celebrate him. And I asked him because, you know, I'd be curious about you, too, because all great announcers, they have the. Their. Their signature call, right? And there's always an origin story. And I was curious about Sam's origin story to that call. I'm not sure, if you heard it or you know the story.
- [24:14]
Howie Rose
But he brought it back.
- [24:16]
Alan Hahn
Okay, so it's a power play goal he told us, came from early in his career when he would call New York Cosmos games at Giant Stadium, really would say it's a Cosmos goal. And so it just for him naturally fit when they scored on the play, on the power play, to just instead of Cosmos, say power play. And that's how it was born.
- [24:44]
Howie Rose
I never knew that.
- [24:45]
Alan Hahn
Something I heard in my household for many years growing up. My mother would yell at us, singing along with them every time the Rangers scored a power play goal.
- [24:51]
Howie Rose
Yeah, those are memories, aren't they? But, you know, I, I knew Sam did the cosmos. I didn't know he did that. And I actually stumbled upon something on YouTube not too long ago from. In fact, maybe it was one of the commemorative videos that the Rangers and MSG did. And it had a clip from one of Sam's first games doing the Rangers on tv, and they scored a power play goal. And Sam simply mentioned it's a power play goal almost parenthetically, without, you know, kind of raising to the signature call that he has now. So somewhere along the line from when he became a Ranger broadcaster, he decided to go with that. And I think a lot of fans are glad he did this.
- [25:32]
Alan Hahn
Put it in the books, have a, an origin story.
- [25:35]
Howie Rose
Yeah, kind of. You know, when I was going to games or even playing in the schoolyard as a kid, if I was on a team that won, which was about as rare as a Ranger power play goal is these days, you know, we might say something like, well, that one's in the books. Or even sitting in the upper deck at shame. Mets win a game, we'd say, all right, that one's in the books. And so when I started doing baseball professionally on the air, I really took some inspiration from the great hall of Fame broadcaster of the Cincinnati Reds, Marty Brennaman, who has since retired. But Marty would punctuate every Reds victory, either from announcing the last out or maybe a game winning hit, by saying, and this one belongs to the Reds. And I thought, that's perfect. It's succinct. It's not self aggrandizing, it's, you know, right to the point. I'd love to find something somewhat like that. And so put it in the books just came to mind. But it took a few iterations before I could find the proper inflection. And it happened, you know, somewhat serendipitously because I remember I just wasn't crazy with how it was sounding. I was kind of sing songing like put it in the books. I said I didn't like that. And then one day, one a game, I think it was on a very close, the last out was a very close play at first base and it was a, you know, I think Ordonia's might have made a great play on the hole and just got the runner at first. And I just kind of, I just kind of punctuated it by going put it in the books the way I do now. And I thought, I like that and kind of stayed with it. But that's 30 years ago already.
- [27:12]
Alan Hahn
Amazing.
- [27:13]
Peter Rosenberg
You're the best. Enjoy the season, man. Looking forward to hearing your calls.
- [27:16]
Alan Hahn
Absolutely. We hear it tomorrow for sure. Howie Rose, everybody. The season's coming, starts tomorrow. Great to talk to you, Howie. All the best. I love getting the origin stories. I'm gonna make that a thing from now on, like, because these are great. I don't think a lot of people understand them or know them and, and so it's, it's always fun to hear them and, and to hear those stories being told. All right, 800 now at 93776. Speaking of here we hear from Russell Wilson, the newest giant quarterback. And by the way, I'm here at the Garden. Apparently he's going to be here too at some point during tonight's Knicks Clippers game.
- [27:55]
Howie Rose
So you don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.
- [28:12]
Peter Rosenberg
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- [28:53]
Alan Hahn
1, 2, 3.
- [28:56]
Peter Rosenberg
Will that be cash or credit? Credit.
- [28:59]
Alan Hahn
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- [29:07]
Peter Rosenberg
Compatible with select apps.
- [29:08]
Alan Hahn
Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input.
- [29:10]
Peter Rosenberg
Check responses for accuracy.
- [29:13]
Alan Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [29:16]
Peter Rosenberg
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [29:18]
Alan Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. All right, it's time now for a tournament update brought to you by Schweppes. We get back into March Madness tomorrow. Newark is hosting the East Region Sweet 16, second seed at Alabama, taking on six seed BYU. They're a fun team to watch, by the way. This is gonna be a great game. That is the opening game at 7:09, followed by the top seated Duke and Cooper Flag and company and them boys, they take on fourth seeded Arizona. Great matchups there in Newark. That was. Tournament update is presented by Schweppes. Schweppes offers above the rim refreshment and is a proud sponsor of the Big East Conference. Enjoy the madness and take a break from the hoops action with a Schweppes Seltzer or Schweppes Ginger ale. Well, Don, Russell Wilson is in New York, planning on coming tonight here to Madison Square Garden to the Knicks game. So he'll get received by the New York crowd. He had a zoom call with reporters. What's that?
- [30:21]
Peter Rosenberg
He'll probably get golf applause. Like, I don't think he'll get booed. I don't think people are going to give him a rousing ovation.
- [30:27]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, I think you're right. Probably, probably a little like a smattering, right? A little response. That's about it. But he had a zoom call with reporters. So let's hear a couple of cuts here from Russell Wilson. The first one, simply on being a giant.
- [30:41]
Peter Rosenberg
You know, coming here, obviously being in.
- [30:43]
Alan Hahn
New York is exciting place to play. It's a place that wants to win. It's a place that knows how to win and has won before.
- [30:49]
Peter Rosenberg
And so for me, it's bringing everything I know, all the experiences, all the touchdowns, all the wins, but also all the love and passion for the game to this locker room. And that's what I'm really excited for.
- [31:00]
Alan Hahn
And it's going to be a special, special, special thing and we gotta go.
- [31:03]
Peter Rosenberg
Work for it every day and go do it.
- [31:05]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, okay. Do you expect to be a starter? Yeah, I expect to be a starter.
- [31:12]
Peter Rosenberg
And come in here and be ready to rock and roll every day. I think, you know, to get a lead, I think this team's really looking.
- [31:16]
Alan Hahn
For somebody to lead them in every.
- [31:18]
Peter Rosenberg
Way in terms of the process, you.
- [31:20]
Alan Hahn
Know, in the off season, during the.
- [31:21]
Peter Rosenberg
Season, our habits and our thought process and how we create, you know, a.
- [31:25]
Alan Hahn
Great Winning culture, and how do we.
- [31:26]
Peter Rosenberg
Continue to establish that and to really.
- [31:28]
Alan Hahn
Build on things that we do well and the things that we continue to need to do?
- [31:32]
Peter Rosenberg
And so I think the big me is. And just try to.
- [31:34]
Alan Hahn
This might be my 14th year, to be able to lead an amazing group of men that really have, you know.
- [31:40]
Peter Rosenberg
Big hopes and goals and dreams and desires, and we all share the same goal.
- [31:44]
Alan Hahn
And so I think that's the best.
- [31:45]
Peter Rosenberg
Part about it is I get to.
- [31:46]
Alan Hahn
Be around a lot of, you know, extremely talented guys. Don. I feel like when he talks, it's like HR wrote everything for him. Like, really, this is a human resources dream, this guy.
- [32:00]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, that is the corny Russell Wilson. That's why we always talk. We joked about him being just so weird when he was Mr.
- [32:10]
Alan Hahn
Unlimited.
- [32:11]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, Mr. Unlimited. Hey, yo, Seattle. And then there's when he talks to the bottleneck, he all of a sudden becomes like, you know, Greg and Brian Gumbel, where. And it just, it. I think that's why it's very difficult for him in, in a room, because I think there's a lot of players who just think he's kind of a phony. And that's why I thought the baggage that he brought with him, that's why I wanted Aaron Rodgers. I thought his baggage was less than Wilson's because.
- [32:37]
Alan Hahn
Really?
- [32:38]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, because Seattle, half the room didn't seem to like him. You saw what happened in Denver. He was a complete diva, needed his own office. You know, Pittsburgh wasn't going to stand for that, but. And now you see they really had no issues cutting bait with him. I think there's some nozzle to him, but I don't think it's nasty, it's negative. But I just think that in a room where you're looking for a leader, you don't know who he is. I think there's some kind of phoniness to him that comes across negative to his teammates. Listening to him, he sounds like he's going to start and he's going to be a leader. So we'll see. I think that if given a chance, I think that Winston can win this job from him. But I can understand him coming in with a Super bowl ring, that he thinks he's going to be the starting quarterback and. Good. I want these two to be able to challenge each other. But I, I, I, I don't think that there's definitely a number one just based on one making $21 million, the other one making four. I, I think there's an excellent chance for Winston to win this job, don't you? Or.
- [33:42]
Howie Rose
No.
- [33:43]
Alan Hahn
You talk about two diverse personalities. Personalities, right. Like, I'm talking about absolutely diverse personalities with him and Winston. Am I right?
- [33:54]
Howie Rose
Yeah.
- [33:54]
Alan Hahn
Like, Winston is going to be a note. He's going to fill notebooks. A reporter's dream with all the, you know, the hilarity and the personality and the, you know, willingness to talk about just about anything. And then you're going to get Wilson and you're going to get, you know, the. This is the PR firm.
- [34:12]
Howie Rose
Right.
- [34:13]
Alan Hahn
You're going to get the statements. Everything. Everything he says and to the media is always feels like, you know, a team spokesman said, like that's what. That's what all this stuff feels like. But like, you know, when a player, you know, when a celebrity gets in trouble and it's like they. They put out a statement and it reads like a lawyer wrote it. That's what a lot of Russell Wilson in the media sounds like. A lot of these cuts. And I got a couple more here.
- [34:37]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [34:38]
Alan Hahn
And I don't know how much you'll be able to stomach because these two are pretty long. Russell Wilson on the process of becoming a giant. What it took. I talked to Jalen Hyatt today a little bit, too. I just think that he's a guy that's been untapped in terms of what.
- [34:51]
Peter Rosenberg
He knows he's capable of.
- [34:52]
Alan Hahn
And so it's just been a really good process. And there are many others.
- [34:55]
Peter Rosenberg
Wanda Robinson, you know, he's like a running back.
- [34:58]
Alan Hahn
Every time he touches the ball, it's hard to tackle. His ability to make people miss, his ability to get away from guys and his escapability. I've played with some guys like that before, and there's many others along the way. Obviously, the backs and what they're able to do. There's so young and talented, but.
- [35:11]
Peter Rosenberg
And then the guys up front.
- [35:12]
Alan Hahn
It always starts with the guys up.
- [35:13]
Peter Rosenberg
Front and what they're capable of.
- [35:14]
Alan Hahn
And seeing a guy like Andrew Thomas in the weight room, I mean, squats.
- [35:18]
Peter Rosenberg
And doing everything he was doing the other day and just being around him a little bit.
- [35:21]
Alan Hahn
Guys like GBR and just talking to different guys along the way, it's just been a really smooth process.
- [35:26]
Peter Rosenberg
That's given me a lot of confidence. Obviously, this fan base, talking to Mr.
- [35:29]
Alan Hahn
Mara himself and them and just the whole staff and it's been really special.
- [35:36]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, it definitely sounds rehearsed. I'll make sure he gets a huge. Many names as possible.
- [35:42]
Alan Hahn
Right. He covers all bases.
- [35:44]
Peter Rosenberg
I don't want to be that guy. And the only reason I'm having this opinion is because this is always what I felt about him. And you did hear stories that he was not a great guy in the room in Seattle, so. But whatever, you know, he obviously has got his hat in his hand now. I mean, he just signed a $21 million contract. Only half of it's guaranteed for one year. So he's gonna be fully motivated, Winston's gonna be fully motivated. So we'll see guys change and certainly he'll be given an opportunity here to do something. But it just comes. Well, it just came across, it didn't come across as genuine and obviously you agree. Not at all.
- [36:23]
Alan Hahn
And yeah, and I. The genuine part of it is it just feels like, well, first of all, he's answering questions, which is the first thing we always, you know, scream and yell when a player doesn't want to talk to the media. And he comes off as a guy that doesn't want to say anything. But I'm more like, I marvel at his ability to speak in real time like this, like, like Don. I mean, it sounds so careful, carefully worded, that it's almost perfect. And the fact that he's doing it just off the top of his head, like he's ad libbing, literally perfectly worded statements that you can't find any problem with. Right. Like, don't you. Like, I find it fascinating and also a little bit creepy.
- [37:13]
Peter Rosenberg
There's something very off putting about it. You're right. But I know this made the rounds about, you know, him with the Mr. Unlimited and hey, and Winston with his, you know, praying to God to take his interceptions. None of this is going to fly in New York if they don't perform well. It is. Listen, in certain markets it's got something going on, but if Winston or Wilson, they're the starting quarterback and they're not winning games and they look awful and they start performing that stuff, nobody is going to care. You know, that's the one thing about New York. They're going to sniff out that phoniness and expose it and you're not going to be able to get away with it. Now what does happen in New York, and I think you'll agree, is that if they do play well, we'll eat it up with a spoon.
- [37:54]
Alan Hahn
Oh, yeah.
- [37:54]
Peter Rosenberg
But if we don't, if we don't see the talent there, then none of that garbage is going to fly line.
- [38:02]
Alan Hahn
In a lesser, in a lesser extent, but sort of similar, was Ryan Fitzpatrick first year fitzmagic right Remember, Gino had gotten knocked out and you know, Fitzpatrick came in, he was supposed to be the backup. He wins the job and they have a good season and he's got, he's got his personality, his craziness and you know, he's kind of, he was a little bit of a gambler on the, on the field, but he was an opinionated guy. And that first year was fun. It was Fitz magic. We fell in love with it. Second year Fitz tragic. It was terrible, right? Like we couldn't, couldn't stand him anymore. And it was all. Because in the first year he won 10 games. The second year they didn't win. Right. Remember, remember that he signed late, came in late to training camp.
- [38:46]
Peter Rosenberg
Oh yeah, he was a whole.
- [38:47]
Alan Hahn
And he got the ovation from the teammates and the whole thing and then it all fell, all fell to pieces. So you're absolutely right. In this town, the personality, the swagger, whatever it is, is always received only when you're winning. And if you aren't winning, it get, you get mocked, you get torn up and, and it gets tired real quick. And you see how these guys turn. And I just wonder, you know, again, knowing what the season is ahead for this, this Giants team who ends up with the ball. And we all know Brian Dabel, like he doesn't suffer fools when it comes to that position. I mean, he was talking through gritted teeth about Daniel Jones for the better part of the last two years. So which quarterback fits more with what he could live with versus who can win for him? Because I'm not sure. I think the first choice of quarterback is who can I deal with on a daily basis.
- [39:43]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [39:43]
Alan Hahn
Versus who's going to win.
- [39:45]
Peter Rosenberg
And they're going to have no choice but to have to deal with it because where are you going? You know, you're not making a ton of money. It's easy to get out of your contracts. I mean that, you know, he was screaming at Daniel Jones was, you know, a $40 million quarterback. You know, this is going to be basically a ten and a half million dollar quarterback at the guaranteed money and Wilson and Winston's making no money. So.
- [40:04]
Alan Hahn
Right.
- [40:05]
Peter Rosenberg
They, they have. I do believe in motivated players and I think at this stage of their career, both of them, even though there's five years age difference between the two, they're both kind of seeing the end of the line here, especially Wilson, and.
- [40:18]
Alan Hahn
They'Ll be motivated to play somebody going to take advantage of this opportunity unless of course, they draft the quarterback. All right, we have your calls to get to 800 now 193776 enn at 6. But first don has a message.
- [40:29]
Peter Rosenberg
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- [41:01]
Howie Rose
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- [41:03]
Peter Rosenberg
We believe if you run, you're a runner, however you choose to do it. Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way. And that's what running is all about. Run your way@newbalance.com Running.
- [41:29]
Alan Hahn
Some people just.
- [41:30]
Peter Rosenberg
Know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like you know to check the Jumbotron.
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Howie Rose
First before attempting to eat a stack.
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Peter Rosenberg
Of Supreme Nachos in one bite.
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Alan Hahn
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Peter Rosenberg
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- [41:53]
Alan Hahn
Affiliates, Northbrook, IL Pro Savings Days are back at Lowe's with limited time savings on the supplies pros need. Get up to 40% off select major appliances plus save an additional $100 on every $1,000 you spend on select major appliances. And don't miss your chance to activate and earn three times the points on select DeWalt and Klein tools Lowe's. We help you save valid the 328 selection varies by location while supplies last. See associate or lowe's.com for more details on qualifying items. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [42:30]
Peter Rosenberg
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [42:32]
Alan Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get back to the call to 800-919-3776. James is out in LA. Been waiting a bit. What's up James?
- [42:49]
Howie Rose
Hey guys, how you doing?
- [42:50]
Peter Rosenberg
Thanks for taking the call.
- [42:52]
Howie Rose
Always.
- [42:52]
Alan Hahn
Just before I make a giant point.
- [42:55]
Peter Rosenberg
I just would make a comment on.
- [42:57]
Howie Rose
Your uniform discussion from before.
- [42:59]
Peter Rosenberg
I am a fan of the Orange White and blue teams, all of them.
- [43:03]
Howie Rose
My wife teases me because she is.
- [43:04]
Peter Rosenberg
A ginger with red with orange ish.
- [43:07]
Howie Rose
Hair, pale skin and blue eyes. And she says one of the reasons.
- [43:11]
Peter Rosenberg
You love me is because I'm the.
- [43:12]
Howie Rose
Color of all your favorite sports scenes. So for the Giants, Don, you were saying that what would I expect?
- [43:22]
Peter Rosenberg
I am.
- [43:23]
Alan Hahn
I just keep on shaking my head.
- [43:24]
Howie Rose
At what the Giants are doing. It just seems like they're chasing their own tail. Can't blow it up.
- [43:29]
Peter Rosenberg
So what I would hope they would.
- [43:31]
Howie Rose
Do is draft Hunter, build up your.
- [43:34]
Peter Rosenberg
Defense and then, you know, pick maybe.
- [43:37]
Howie Rose
In the third or fourth round, find a gym, find a quarterback.
- [43:41]
Peter Rosenberg
Maybe the quarterback from Louisville who's, who's.
- [43:43]
Howie Rose
A senior, someone like that.
- [43:46]
Peter Rosenberg
Instead of chasing old Russell Wilson, find the new Russell Wilson.
- [43:50]
Howie Rose
Earn your keep. Draft somebody. Quarterback whisper Babel this is your shot.
- [43:55]
Peter Rosenberg
Maybe try to develop a quarterback and planned on building a solid team and then maybe you can hit on a quarterback later on. That's the only thing I can really. What else are they supposed to do? Like let's say this plan works to perfection. The Giants are competitive, you know, win eight, nine games, Shane and Dable come back. All right, well you're not going to be able to draft the quarterback high in 26 because you would have finished higher up in the standings. So where is the next quarterback going to come from? Alan, if John Mara has his wish and this team's competitive, the only way they can obtain that is through free agency, a trade or finding a gem later on in the draft. So I don't know how deep next year's quarterback draft's going to be. Is there going to be somebody at 22 if they're that good that they can pick, is there going to be somebody?
- [44:42]
Alan Hahn
I promise you this. If they're average, I promise you this, it there'll be somebody. We never heard of that suddenly like we don't know now that would be like, oh, you got to draft this guy if you're 12. Like you know there's a quarterback out there, you know, there again the Jackson darts and the, you know, the Tyler Shocks, like these guys are out there and they're all going to end up being top first round picks because of all the hype and the need for quarterback. But you know, I do think you're right. Like what else is there? What else is there to do? This does signify to me even though Shefte and others are saying the Giants could still take a quarterback in the draft, this signifies to me it ain't going to be a three like they're going to be. If quarterbacks go one, two, you're going to get the best talent in the draft.
- [45:28]
Peter Rosenberg
No, honestly, the way things have set out to me tells me that three is going to be somebody other than the quarterback and it's going to be a great pick and the fans are going to love it because it's going to be either Carter or Hunter and that's going to help the PR battle and that's going to help your defense and maybe in a way your offensive, it's Hunter and then you roll. So I just, just trying to let Giant fans know if it just doesn't work, they're going to blow it up and then they'll have their pick of quarterbacks next year. But if John Mara does get the competitiveness that he's looking for, then you're putting yourself into having to find another quarterback, which you can. I mean not all of them are taken first overall, Allen or second overall.
- [46:07]
Alan Hahn
A lot of them, a lot of them end up right. The best ones often don't end up being the top pick.
- [46:13]
Peter Rosenberg
Listen, Russell Wilson was a third round pick. Joe Montana was a third round pick. Jalen Hurts was a second round pick. I mean, so I understand it's a lot easier to find a gem at.
- [46:23]
Alan Hahn
The top of the Mark Jackson was the 30th pick in the draft.
- [46:25]
Peter Rosenberg
But you go out and you find you got to fight. But as important as quarterback is Alan, coach is important, general manager is important and having talent around the quarterback is very important too. So at least there's an opportunity here at three to go out and get a pretty special player and you don't want to pass that up, that opportunity just to take a flyer on a quarterback just because he's a Q B.
- [46:48]
Alan Hahn
I'm curious about this call. Walter from Brooklyn is a Steelers fan. I'd love to get this perspective. Walter.
- [46:54]
Howie Rose
Hey Han, what's up? Nice to be online with you and Don. You're a legend. Wanted to tell you that Han is on his way in regards to the Steelers. That a lot of people don't understand. Me being a Steeler fan is that Fields got benched partly for two reasons probably one that people don't know about. Wilson came in for a million dollars. He probably had some deal with Tomlin that basically he would start. But besides that, the more important thing, the reason Fields got benched was that they, if they kept playing him, they would be giving Chicago a fourth round pick if he didn't play half the Snaps, they give him a six round pick. The Steelers did that on purpose and they wanted Fields back and I think they would have taken them and then also drafted a quarterback to have a competition.
- [47:56]
Alan Hahn
Walter, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look this up. But so, so that was in the deal in the trade that if he plays X amount of snaps or games we get a fourth. If he doesn't, it ends up being a six. And the Pittsburgh Steelers decided instead of going to win and doing the right thing for the kid in the organization, we don't want to lose a fourth round pick. So we're going to bench him despite the fact that he might be the better player for us to play. And if you're Justin Fields and you know this is true, then of course you're not going to re sign there. So that's what you told me, Walter.
- [48:33]
Howie Rose
I don't think they actually told him that. I think they were on with him. And like we're playing, we're playing Wilson the rest of the way and you're going to be our guy next year. You know, it didn't work out that way. And then in regards to Rogers, I mean Rogers eccentric, but Wilson, haven't seen him in Pittsburgh and just, you know, the way he reacts with the press, like Don would say, I mean he's weird. There's a difference between being weird and centric. So who knows what's going to happen.
- [49:07]
Peter Rosenberg
But that's my opinion and you're entitled to it. And you may know more than I do, but I'm telling you.
- [49:15]
Alan Hahn
Thank you, Walter.
- [49:15]
Peter Rosenberg
There is no way in God's green earth that they're going to throw away a season over between a fourth and a sixth round pick. It's a no no. They were 10 and three. They were 10 and three, lost the rest of the games in the regular season and lost their playoff games over two rounds. No, no. And if you're telling me that there was a difference of pick, then why did you start him anyway? I think they thought they could do better. They got locked into Wilson and I'm telling you it's a story they're giving you.
- [49:51]
Alan Hahn
It becomes a fourth round pick if he plays 51% of their snaps in the season. Adam Schefter reported that the trade was.
- [49:59]
Peter Rosenberg
Made and you're 10 3. And that fourth round pick is so important that as you go to 10 and 4, as you go to 10, 5, as you go to 10 and 6, the pick was more important than just trying to salvage the end of your season and then you're in a playoff game.
- [50:20]
Alan Hahn
Man, this is.
- [50:21]
Peter Rosenberg
And Russell Wilson starts that game. No, no, no, it's not. I don't. Listen, I'm all for the tin hat conspiracy theories, but why would a 10 and 3 team go. They ended up losing the last four games of the regular season and their playoff game. So they lost the last five games in a row, threw away a 103 season on a 1 and done in the wild card for. Because it would become a fourth round pick.
- [50:49]
Alan Hahn
I mean, they stuck with them.
- [50:51]
Howie Rose
They stuck with him.
- [50:52]
Alan Hahn
There was a lot of talk at the end. I remember this from being on get up. There was a lot of talk at the end of the season. Should they go back to Justin Fields? Should he go back to being the starter? Because Russell Wilson was starting to fade and you saw that they would use him in some situations in the offense, so they weren't completely benching him, but he wasn't getting enough snaps for it and he ended up being under 51% and they ended up only having to give up a six round pick.
- [51:17]
Peter Rosenberg
What percentage did he end up being at? I mean, I don't.
- [51:21]
Alan Hahn
I would have to. Yeah, the calculator. Do the math.
- [51:24]
Peter Rosenberg
The last game that he played, just looking at the box score, was that the loss that when they beat the Raiders 32 13, they were 4 and 2. Right. And then, and then, and then Russell came in and played the Jets. If I got, if I got my timeline correct. Just looking, just quick looking at the box score.
- [51:48]
Howie Rose
Yeah.
- [51:48]
Peter Rosenberg
Russell Wilson started the game against the jets. So he came in. So they're four and two, Russell Wilson jumps in and they're fine. They end up winning five straight games of Russell Wilson as the quarterback.
- [52:00]
Alan Hahn
Right.
- [52:00]
Peter Rosenberg
And then they ended up falling apart. But. So he probably wasn't close to 40 to 50% after six weeks. So couldn't. Couldn't you, after you lost to Philadelphia, lost to Baltimore, lost to Kansas City, say, all right, last game of the season, I'll play him against Cincinnati. And you could have played him in the playoff game if you thought Russell Wilson was cooked, which is the narrative now, that we don't want him physically, he was done. He checked out. Well, you could have gone back two fields and not have him exceed the 51%. Right.
- [52:32]
Alan Hahn
Maybe.
- [52:33]
Peter Rosenberg
Or maybe they never did.
- [52:35]
Alan Hahn
Maybe you would have risked going there. I don't know. I, I find it a fascinating thing. That's why I had to look it up real quick. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.