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- [00:01]
Don LaGreca
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Ian O'Connor
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Alan Hahn
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Don LaGreca
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Alan Hahn
Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.
- [00:28]
Don LaGreca
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:32]
Alan Hahn
That sounds like heaven to me.
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Don LaGreca
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.
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Alan Hahn
Game time is brought to you by Tullimore Dew Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, guys,
- [00:48]
Don LaGreca
it's tele time.
- [00:49]
Alan Hahn
It's tolly time. The Mets start a series with the Marlins with coverage immediately following us on 880 at 6 30. And the Yankees visit the Sacramento Athletics, if that's what they're called, at 9:40 Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew. Try the new Tullamore Dew, honey. During today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. Sometimes great things happen on accident, right? And if you missed the show earlier, we had ian Begley from SNY booked at 4 o'. Clock. He had to shift gears and move to 3:45. When I was in the opening monologue, I got Anthony in my ear saying Ian at 345. And I just immediately thought of Ian O', Connor because I love the guy. And I'm like, boy, I'd love to talk to him. And just went into this whole soliloquy about how it's great to get the history of the Knicks from a guy that was around for so long and covered the team, yada yada. And then I was told, no, no, Ian Begley moved to 345. I'm like, okay. And then a great man, Alan Hahn says, you know what, why don't we get Conor on? And here he is at 5 o'. Clock. So sometimes things happen on ACC, but I love this man, Ian O'.
- [01:57]
Ian O'Connor
Connor.
- [01:57]
Alan Hahn
And he joins us here on Don Hanna Rosenberg. How are you, sir? It's an honor.
- [02:01]
Ian O'Connor
Hey Don, that was just a nice way of saying that I'm old. I appreciate that. And Begley's terrific. Anyway, so you're better off with him.
- [02:11]
Alan Hahn
But as. No, but as much as I love Ian Begley, when I hear Ian, I think of you. There's a lot of great Ian.
- [02:17]
Ian O'Connor
Thank you.
- [02:18]
Alan Hahn
Ian Rapoport. Ian Begley. It's pronounced differently, but. Ian Eagle. But you're the guy. When I hear, when I hear I a n, I think of you.
- [02:28]
Ian O'Connor
Well, that's very nice you Don. I did tell Ian Eagle that I've said this to him in the past, that, you know, I don't know how. You are the best sportscaster alive and I vote for you all the time for all these different awards and you still don't know how to pronounce your first name.
- [02:43]
Anthony Rosenberg
I don't quite understand that.
- [02:47]
Ian O'Connor
It's great. It's great. I was gonna say it's great to be with you guys. Thanks for having me.
- [02:51]
Don LaGreca
It's awesome to have you. I'm glad you were available for us too today. But on for many levels. But Don does a, a top five every week. He does his list and I do think a top five Ian's is definitely something that's on the table. But when it comes to though this, this current iteration of the Knicks and where they are right now in, you know, in the franchise's history. I know you're a great historian. We had a caller earlier today mention something that I don't think is talked about enough. It's not just the roster that they have right now, it's how it was built. And Ian, I always say that this franchise finally got it right when they stopped chasing stars. Do you see it like that? And what do you think of the job that Leon Rose has done?
- [03:35]
Ian O'Connor
Yeah, he's done an incredible job. And early on he struggled a little bit. First time in this role. If you think of Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier and Cam Reddish, there were some misses there. But like his players, like his team, he got better and better and better at this job. And yeah, he didn't make the Giannis deal, he didn't make the Donovan Mitchell deal. And it was like just these other moves that he made in piecing this together to all come to fruition. Obviously this year a championship level team, it's the best Knicks team I've ever seen. Now I was eight years old when they won in 73 and I do remember that team to some extent, but I was 8. So when I really started processing basketball, I would say the only Knicks team that I think in a seven game series that might have a shot against these guys would be the 93 team. Which is odd because they didn't reach the finals like 94 and the 99 team did. I thought the 93 team was the best team since 73. They're the only team since 1970 to win 60 games. The Knicks team, and they were the top. See, they beat out Chicago for that number one seed in the East. I think they won nine of their first 11 playoff games, including the first two against Michael Jordan. And then it unraveled. But that might be the only team that in a seven game series, I think could potentially beat this team. But yeah, Leon Rose has been totally lights out.
- [05:05]
Alan Hahn
And you need a little luck too, right? We had a caller talk about, you know, not building through the draft but making shrewd trades. And, you know, sometimes you get lucky, like Joker taken in the second round or Giannis taking 15th overall. That's a break. Was Leon's break Brunson? Because did they think they were getting this? Did anybody believe they were getting this when they acquired him?
- [05:29]
Ian O'Connor
No, not this. Not a superstar. And remember, Don, the conversation was when he arrived in New York, is he good enough to be the second best player on a championship team? Not the best player? And I think now that question is being answered. Now he's got to win four more games. But I think most people now believe that, yes, Jalen Brown, Brunton could be the best player on a championship team. And will he go down as the greatest player in the history of the franchise? I think at his age, he still has some years to get there. I don't think he's there now. And I don't think if he wins one ring, he's there. He's in the top four. Right now I have him fourth. I have Ewing, Frazier and Reed ahead of him. But right now I'd put him ahead of the Busher. I'd put him ahead of Bernard King, ahead of Earl Monroe and everyone else. And that's Carmelo. That's saying a lot. So I think that, yes, the biggest move in this whole thing was Brunson, because even they did not know they were getting this. And yeah, some old takes have surfaced from different people saying that Brunson was not a franchise player. But I'm pretty sure most people in the Knicks organization didn't believe he was really a franchise player. They thought he might become a top two or three option on a championship team. But all the credit goes to Leon Rose, Tibbs, certainly Mike Brown now, but Jalen Brunson himself. For when you look at him physically, you say he's just not the kind of guy you could see as a dominant player in this league. But he's just done an incredible job. And in a lot of ways reminds you of Derek Jeter in the way he carries himself. And he's got a chance to go down among the great New York Titans of all time.
- [07:17]
Don LaGreca
That's where I was going next with you, Ian, because you're such a historian of not just, you know, the single sports, you do a lot of stuff with football, but you, you know New York sports as well as anybody that's doing it today. And Jeter is one name certainly that comes up there. You know, Judge is another name that is more current that comes up. But when you think about his story, the connection to where his father was on the 99 team, his father was a nick. I always use the phrase blood in the ground as a, as a thing of, of what you are. If you have either if you're from here or you have some sort of emotional connection to here. I think it does. It is different. It hits different. It hit different for Tibbs because he had worked here before. So I wanted to ask you with, with Brunson, his story and when you connect it to let's Go modern, because anything before the 70s feels like a different world. But in the modern era, where would you put him among New York athletes when it comes to his story, the connection and the sort of, I don't want to say come out of nowhere, but that wasn't one we saw coming.
- [08:23]
Ian O'Connor
Yeah, you're right, Alan. And I think if he wins this championship, he's up there. And I understand Derek Jeter won five, but there's more on Brunson than there ever was on Derek Jeter. Just there are only five players on the court. He is ending a 53 year championship drought if it happens. And I think he's right there with Jeter at the very top in terms of modern New York superstars. And I'd even put him ahead of maybe Eli Manning. Although he had the two Super Bowl MVPs, he's right there, certainly with Eli, if not slightly ahead of him. It's just a staggering achievement when again, you look at his size, not the most athletic guy in the world to dominate in a sport that is dominated by much bigger people. And to do it in New York to end a drought like that, 53 years, you know, I would say I'd put him right there with Jeter and Messier and Eli's in that group.
- [09:24]
Don LaGreca
Eli's. Yeah, right. Like Eli's gotta be there, right? Because he was so cold in the, in the toughest moments. And I think that's a lot very similar to Brunson.
- [09:33]
Anthony Rosenberg
Right.
- [09:33]
Ian O'Connor
And he beat the greatest coach and quarterback of all time twice in Super Bowl. So like right now, again, last 30, 35, 40 years, you're looking at Jeter, Messier, Eli and Brunson. And so it is amazing company for him to keep. And he does need to win four more. And I do think the Knicks can and will do it. I think they'll beat either of these teams in. In six games.
- [09:59]
Alan Hahn
Wow, that's interesting. Ian o' Connor joining us here on Don Juan and Rosenberg, since we're looking at the history of it and still four more wins before we get there, Ian. But where would this rank in New York sport championships? Right. You know, the 94 Rangers, the 86 Mets, the 86 Giants, the 96 Yankees. There's certain teams that just seem to hit different. You can make the case that would this be number one?
- [10:25]
Ian O'Connor
I think I would say yes. And for this reason, one, the 98 Yankees are the best team I've ever covered and this team does not rise to the level of the 98 Yankees. But that's not the question you asked. It's not the best team, not the
- [10:39]
Alan Hahn
best, but the one that just seems to resonate the most.
- [10:42]
Ian O'Connor
Yeah. And I think there's a little recency bias maybe in my answer here. I would say yes, because, and I'm sure other people have brought this up, the Knicks are the team in, you know, really the only basketball team in the city. You have Yankees and Nets fans, Giants and Jets fans, Rangers and Islanders fans, maybe to a lesser degree. And I don't want to say the Nets are completely irrelevant. I don't want to say I grew up a Nets fans to some degree. I follow them as a Jersey guy. But listen, if you're a basketball fan in the Tri State area, you're a Knicks fan for the most part. And so the entire region rallies around the Knicks when they are really good. So if they actually pull this off, and again, I think they will, despite the Mitchell Robinson injury, I do think they will. I think it is the biggest championship since the 94 Rangers. Since the NBA is probably a little bit of a bigger sport in New York than hockey, I would say, yeah, I would put it number one.
- [11:44]
Jackson Dart
Wow.
- [11:45]
Don LaGreca
Well, something that. Because there's always got to be some naysayers and some negativity and criticism, there are people that are looking at, at least nationally, that, oh, they've had an easy run. It just shows you how weak the east is. They could sweep twice. They're blowing teams out that says that they haven't played anybody good. Do they have to beat the defending champs to put that narrative to bed, or does that narrative not really mean anything?
- [12:14]
Ian O'Connor
Yeah, I don't think ultimately it means anything. I think that, listen, I would suspect their chances of winning a championship would be better against San Antonio. They have not beaten Oklahoma City in three seasons.
- [12:27]
Don LaGreca
Right.
- [12:28]
Ian O'Connor
And they beat the spurs two out of three this year. So I think, listen, you can only play who's put in front of you. They did get a favorable draw this year, certainly with the way the rest of the Eastern Conference playoffs played out. But I just, I don't like subtracting anything from champions championship teams. I really don't. And particularly one that ends 53 years of misery or something close to it. I'm sorry. I don't care who they beat at this point. I don't care who they've beaten when you win 11 straight playoff. Because I asked Jeff Van Gunny the other day and he said this is the best Knicks team he's ever seen, including his teams. So, yeah, I'm not going to subtract anything from what they've accomplished and what they will accomplish going forward. And I think, I understand that being part of the national conversation, but I think you're missing the point if that's what you're focusing on.
- [13:20]
Alan Hahn
But you know what's going to happen, Ian. It's inevitable. If they don't win, then you'll look upon the run as they got there because it was soft. And that's the shame of it, right? Because this is 11 straight wins. But you know, when you lose in the finals, people are just going to look at it as, all right, well, you got what you deserved because you faced the best team and you lost. That will, I think, at least outside the New York metropolitan area, enhance the fact that the east was weak.
- [13:48]
Ian O'Connor
You're probably right, Don, but we'll know better, go through all of this, right? It'll be our little secret that that wasn't really the case. This was a special group. And I may write this if it doesn't happen, if they don't win a championship. But I don't think you need to win a title to be winners. And I think this team has already secured the fact that they are winners. And what they gave the city with this run will never be forgotten by the people who lived it and were there. And nationally, you might be right. But locally, in this region, we'll know better. And I think that's something that this Nics team has already guaranteed for Themselves and for everyone who experienced it. And frankly, again, I don't think they're going to have to worry about it. I do think right now they're the best team and I suspect that in the next two weeks they'll prove it.
- [14:39]
Don LaGreca
Speaking of blood in the ground and a good story, I think you'd find Karl Anthony Townes fascinating at this point, wouldn't you? Because, you know, a kid from, he calls it Central Jersey, whose father had a chance to try out for the Knicks, broke his ankle and didn't get that chance to go to the tryout, whose mother loved the Garden so much she dreamed about her son playing there and has not, unfortunately, because she passed, didn't get a chance to actually see it with her own eyes. And a player who came here with some criticism with people that were concerned if whether or not he was the right trade to make. Have you seen a transformation of a player like this where the crowd loves him now and he has become a different player in a matter of months? But his whole story, to me, Ian, just feels like one of those, you know, great stories to tell if of course, he can end up raising a trophy at the end of this.
- [15:38]
Ian O'Connor
Yeah, it is a great story, Alan. I remember talking to one of his teammates in high school at St. Joe's at Metuchen years ago, saying he remembered Carl wearing a Knicks jersey in practice and sometimes taking half court shots. And it was just amazing his range even as a freshman in high school, from deep. And you know, people say he's soft or they said it in the past, they certainly shouldn't be saying it anymore in terms of play style. But he's also a good human being. I wrote a story recently about him where he has really done wonderful things for a mother of a soldier, a kid who went to St. Joseph Metuchen and a U.S. marine who was killed in Afghanistan. And Carl, as a freshman in high school, went out and intentionally scored 25 points to match up with his age and then stopped shooting. He pass up open shots and kept his scoring total at 25 to honor a soldier he never met. And he's still friends with Kathleen Reinhardt, the mother of that soldier today, had her at a game recently. And so that's the kind of human being that Karl Anthony Towns is. And frankly, the Knicks, to me, I don't know if you guys feel the same way. I think it's a very likable cast of players, a very likable head coach and a very likable playstyle that makes them an Appealing story, easy to embrace. And I don't know, maybe the rest of the country will get a chance to see that during the Finals. But I think the connection between these Knicks and the city is reminiscent in talking to people who were there of the early 70s teams, the Red Holtzman teams that won two titles. That connection they had with New York at that time.
- [17:22]
Alan Hahn
You worried about Robinson's pinky?
- [17:26]
Ian O'Connor
I don't think New York City has waited more than half a century for a championship Don to be derailed by a broken pinky finger. I mean, if that ends up being
- [17:37]
Alan Hahn
the case, then it wasn't meant to be.
- [17:40]
Ian O'Connor
I'm sort of writing a column about now. Listen, it wasn't ever going to be perfect, this run to a championship. Something was going to happen. And maybe I hate to say this, but if you're going to have a rotation player have a broken pinky finger, he might not be the worst guy for that to happen to. I hope he's okay. Hope he's not in too much pain. He is a very important player for obvious reasons. And let's see if he can make it for the. If he can answer the bell for game one.
- [18:09]
Don LaGreca
You got notes for a book, Ian? Because I know you always back your mind. You got to have some notes ready for a book here.
- [18:16]
Ian O'Connor
Hey, my colleague Fred Katz is writing a book on the revival of the Knicks. So he beat me to the punch. I can't do it. I wouldn't compete against that. And that will be terrific because Fred is really good. So my next book is going to be on the two championship teams. The Eli Coughlin 07 and 11 team and that five year period in Giants history. So that's my next project.
- [18:38]
Alan Hahn
I'm looking forward to that. And any promotion you need from us, you'll definitely get it. You're a brilliant offer. I love the Last. The Rogers book was terrific. And all the stuff that you've done Belichick, it's incredible. So I'm really looking forward to that. Enjoy this run, Ian. We'll probably talk to you maybe before it's over or when it's over. And have a great weekend.
- [18:58]
Ian O'Connor
Hey, you two guys. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
- [19:00]
Alan Hahn
You got it. That's the great Ian o'. Connor. It's going to be a race, right? Like if they win the title, all these guys to cover the team. And anybody that's around New York that's an author is going to want to get a book out about this team. Yeah, right. I remember all the books that came out after 86, when the Giants and Mets won, and clearly when the Rangers won in 94. This one just feels like that's the one medium that still, I think, resonates with people is books. You know, even though newspapers have come by the wayside a little bit. But I think there are going to be a ton of people, they're going to want to be able to document this run, even if they don't win, because of how incredible this run has been. But if they do win, don't be surprised if during the course of the summer and into the fall, there's not going to be about four or five books out there about the 25, 26 Knicks.
- [19:51]
Don LaGreca
Yeah, you know, the fall is always. That's the big. You know, the book release schedule, season. It's there and in the spring. Right. Fall books releases are big because you have the holidays coming up. Fredo, Fred. Fred's a fantastic writer, and he's also really good at just getting all the little details and nuances. He's a great storyteller, so that when that comes out, that'll be terrific. People have asked me about whether I would dive in a couple of books I have, and. And it's something I do want to do, but I wouldn't try to. I wouldn't try to compete with this because it feels like it would be rushed and I certainly don't have the time. But I do feel like. Because I've kept all my notes like you. You've talked about this, Don, with. You keep every game that you do and stuff. I had a feeling at the start of this season that this would be special. And I have proof that I have that feeling. I had that feeling not making it up. And I kept notes this year like I never used to keep before. So there'll be a time that that's appropriate for me, definitely, because it feels like something you'd want to tell. I said this. I'll just. Just to put a cap on was in 94 that Pat Riley had the Knicks show up for a midnight practice because it was the first minute the NBA allowed you to have a practice that season. And what he told the players that year was, it was October 93. He said, we're going to be the first team on the court. We're going to be the last team off. And they got to game seven and lost. Right. The Knicks went to Abu Dhabi to start the preseason. They were the first team to practice in the NBA this year because you're allowed to practice a little bit early because of that trip. They were one of the first teams on a court playing in a game in the NBA and they are now already going to be one of the last two teams off.
- [21:46]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
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Don LaGreca
So there's some synergy there. Now can they finish the job and be the last team off? And that's something I just watched from the start and it would be pretty a pretty amazing. It's going to be a great story to tell if they can win it. I love the fact that Ian feels like I do that. There's just something about this team that makes you feel confident. No matter who they're going to play, they'll find a way to finish the job.
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- [23:45]
Don LaGreca
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [23:48]
ServiceTitan/La Quinta/Wyndham/Wayfair/Grainger Advertisers
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [23:50]
Don LaGreca
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [23:57]
Alan Hahn
Subscribe to ESPN New York on YouTube. Stream the full weekday lineup live, watch complete replays or catch up fast on can't miss highlights. Jump into the Live chat, react in real time and make your voice part of the Show. Subscribe to ESPN New York on YouTube now and stay locked in so you never miss a moment. Don, Adam Roseberg with you until 6:30 and then it's the Mets and the Marlins here on ESPN New York now. Obviously the Jackson Dart thing has been a firestorm. It's kind of a shame because, you know, it's the Knicks are going on and it's something we probably would have addressed a little bit more had it not been about the Knicks. But I thought today was a good day to bring it up because Jackson Dart did speak. He got the firestorm for introducing Donald Trump at a New York event. I guess that was early last week. Abdul Carter tweeted against Jackson Dart doing that. Not surprising that he said, what are we doing here? Yeah, what are we doing here? And he obviously. And I didn't like the fact that he made it public, but we'll get into that in a second. But you know, obviously Jackson Dart minicamp had an opening statement about what had taken place last week.
- [25:03]
Jackson Dart
No, obviously this was a unique opportunity being asked and given the opportunity to introduce the pressure president of the United States, my thinking was pretty simple in the fact of I've always loved this country. I have extended family members who have fought in wars. I have two uncles who have retired from the Air Force Academy and served themselves. And I even have a great grandfather who served as Secretary of Treasury at some point. So the president position has always been a position that I've well respected regardless, regardless of political affiliation, regardless of political party. And my intentions were just that.
- [25:50]
Alan Hahn
So you could see he was getting emotional and he gave his reasons why he did that. And there is the office, right? He's not the first player to do this for Donald Trump. Saquon Barkley took a picture with him in the Oval Office. Lawrence Taylor introduced him at an event. No bigger name in Giants history than Lawrence Taylor. John Harbaugh has made his feelings known politically about Donald Trump in the affirmative. So he wasn't exactly going on a limb to introduce Donald Trump as a member of the New York Giants because I'm sure his feelings are shared by half, if not more than half of the Giants organization. I don't know that for a fact. I can't talk to every one of the hundred players there at minicamp this week, but let's not pretend like he is in the minority. Over half this country voted for him. So I think that's something that has to be talked about, is that Whatever your political leanings are, he's entitled to do it. Now, Abdul Carter is entitled to say what he said. My only problem is this became a firestorm because he made it public. He could have called him, he could have took him out privately and said, what are you doing? Why are you supporting this guy? And all of this would have been done behind closed doors and nobody would have known anything about it and there would be no firestorm. But it became a firestorm because it was public. Now, the counter to that will be, well, Dart made a public by introducing Donald Trump. But you just heard he didn't feel like he was doing anything wrong. He's the President of the United States. Like, you can have a problem with that, but there's a lot of people that don't. And I don't know, I guess you can't. Alan, you can't say it wasn't a political statement, but he looked at it as supporting the office. The President asked him to introduce him and he did it. You know, so it feels like he's being thrown into a political war that's going on here that I'm not sure he was even willing to fight. Like, is introducing Donald Trump mean that you are maga? Does it mean that you are in full blown support of everything he's ever done or going to do? Can you just look at it and say, the President of the United States asked me to introduce him and I did it? Can it be that simple?
- [28:10]
Don LaGreca
The only thing that matters from the start of this whole thing is the fact that Abdul Carter thought it was a good idea to call out a teammate that way instead of reaching out to a teammate. Right, Right. Like, if it bothered you. And you have every right to have your feelings and, yeah, you know, your beliefs about the situation. And if you thought, I'm going to just tweet this before I even text Jackson about it, that's a problem that I would have in that locker room. Because what are we about. Because tweeting, as we know, is for the, for the world to see. That, to me, is you wanting everyone to see it. Now all of a sudden, our relationship is not based on trust of teammates and all that stuff that it's really you being performative. You wanted everyone to rally behind you because you wanted to show people that you were upset by it. You can be upset by it.
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Alan Hahn
Of course he can.
- [29:13]
Don LaGreca
But if you're really a true teammate, what you do is you reach out to your teammate and you go, hey, what made you do this? I don't Love it. Talk to me about it, whatever it is. Right. But we all also have to understand that these are not grown, mature men who have a wealth and depth in politics and also in life. They're young, privileged and rich, and they don't really put a lot of time into all the other stuff. They don't. Football is their life. It's what they are. So they're going to see things, they're going to feel things, and that's okay. I hated the fact that this is a team that's trying to build something, and these are young players on the team that are supposed to be part of the foundation of them getting out of the malaise that they've been and turning back into a quality franchise. And one of the key pieces of the team thought the best thing to do is for me to go public with a concern, with a criticism that was a criticism of a teammate. That's not how you do it, man.
- [30:22]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. And I put it into the life that we live. Well, I consider we're all teammates here. You know, five of us on this radio show. You, me, Peter, Anthony and Jacob, we're together every day. We're teammates.
- [30:33]
Don LaGreca
Yeah.
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Alan Hahn
Who may not be competing for a Super bowl, but we're all teammates.
- [30:36]
Don LaGreca
Yeah.
- [30:37]
Alan Hahn
And if I was to do something publicly, like Jackson Dart did, like, introduce the President of the United States, and you or Peter had a problem with that, I would think you'd text me or call me or in the meeting the next day, say, don, why did you do that? Not go on Twitter and say, I can't believe Don LaGreca did that. I'd be red hot if you did that. We keep all that behind closed doors,
- [30:57]
Don LaGreca
show a picture of you and go, what are we doing here? It's not really how you do it. That's what I mean.
- [31:04]
Alan Hahn
What I'm trying to do is Jack the Dhar cheated on somebody or did something really, really raw. Would you want one of his teammates to go public with that or go behind closed doors, say, dude, what are you doing?
- [31:14]
Don LaGreca
What are you doing?
- [31:15]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, you know, that.
- [31:16]
Ian O'Connor
That's.
- [31:16]
Alan Hahn
That. That's the issue.
- [31:17]
Don LaGreca
But see, this is where I come down to again, this is. This is the whole, like, this is when, like, this is how a man handled things. I. I told you, I hate man drama. I hate it. I think it's embarrassing. I hate it. So this is a part of it. This is the whole thing. Mandrama. You want it to be public because you want it to play out publicly, because you want people to Rally behind you and say, you're right. I always hated people that called you out when people are around, but when no one's around, oh, they don't say a word about you. They don't say a word to you. But. Because why do they want that? Because they want other people around to go along with whatever they're saying. And I think that's, that's where I think you're soft and you're weak. I don't like that about what Abdul Carr showed there in that moment. That's a bad look for him. Worse than anything you could say about what Jackson Dar did. Whether you believe he shouldn't have bothered. You should know, like I know some people would say, he should say, I don't want to get involved in that, because if I'm standing at that podium, I know there'll be people that will associate me now with him, with the president, and turn it into, you must be then a loyal follower who does all the same things that some of his sycophant followers do. There's no in between anymore in the world. There's no just saying, you know what, It's. It's represent. It's a country thing. It's. It's the office of the president. It's pretty important. Instead, it just becomes, no, you're one of them. And now I'm supposed to hate you. And that's what kind of Abdul Carter suggested with that tweet. That's bad for that locker room.
- [32:50]
Alan Hahn
Now, I will say this in support of Carter. I think the fact that he fell asleep in meetings. I think the fact that he underachieved in his rookie year should have nothing to do with what he did. He's entitled to have that opinion. Whether he's the best player on the team or whether he's the worst player on the team. Like, I felt like, oh, we're going to kill him because he had, he underachieved that year. Where. So that. So you're kind of suggesting that if he ended up being rookie of the year and had 15 sacks that you give him a pass. That shouldn't be right. I mean, if you thought he did something wrong, the quality of player shouldn't have anything to do with it.
- [33:25]
Don LaGreca
It's a good point.
- [33:25]
Alan Hahn
You know, so I had a problem with that criticism as well. Jackson Dart talked about the conversation he had with Abdul Carter.
- [33:32]
Jackson Dart
Yeah, I mean, we just, we just talked. You know, me and Abdul came here at the same time. We shared a lot of very similar experiences. We experienced ADVERSITY through a season and had to have each other's backs. And that's exactly what we continue to do today. You know, me and him are one of the closer guys on the team with each other. So, you know, we've had a lot of conversation, and he's my brother, you know, I know that I'm a brother to him. And, you know, at the day, we want to be the best people and players for each other.
- [34:00]
Alan Hahn
All right, I want to get to some Abdul Carter and get his side says he will only address. Start introducing Donald Trump one time.
- [34:07]
Jackson Dart
So, first off, I want to say that some things are bigger than football, and this is one of those things. Jackson is one of our leaders. He's the face of our franchise. He not only represents himself and what he does, but he represents all of us. And that goes for anybody who wears a Giants uniform. But if he chooses to align himself with a man like President Trump, it's
- [34:27]
Anthony Rosenberg
my responsibility, based on what I believe
- [34:29]
Jackson Dart
and what I stand on, to not only show my teammates that I'm against that, but to show the world. And that doesn't mean that we have to spread hate. It doesn't mean that me and Jackson hate each other or we have beef. I sit next to Jackson every day. Every team meets, we close, we talk. You know, we just. As long as we make sure we got the same goal as a team and our goals align, which they do. And I feel like that's all that matters. So I just want to move past this and. Yeah, that's it.
- [34:54]
Ian O'Connor
All right.
- [34:54]
Don LaGreca
That's very contradictory, what he just said there. That's contradictory. Like. Like, I don't understand why he feels it's important for him then to, like, the way he tweeted it was not exactly him standing on my beliefs. That was you calling out someone. If you wanted to say that you didn't agree with it, that's different. But to say, what are we doing here is you're calling him out. He shouldn't do that.
- [35:34]
Alan Hahn
But let's talk about the elephant in the room is that supporting Donald Trump is not, like, just supporting any Republican president. I mean, he's a very polarizing figure.
- [35:43]
Don LaGreca
There's no question about that.
- [35:44]
Alan Hahn
That has certain beliefs that there are people that are gonna be totally against that. So it's not your typical Republican, Democrat thing.
- [35:51]
Don LaGreca
No, no.
- [35:52]
Alan Hahn
So that's where Abdul Carter is going through. And I think people need to understand that there's really no other comp. Because Donald Trump is a polarizing figure. There are people that Literally hate his guts. There are people that love him, there are people that hate him. It's very polarizing. I mean, we're not gon all of the details of that. That's not what we do here on this radio station. But he felt strong enough that he wanted to go public with that and that's why he did it. Asked if Dart apologized in their conversation.
- [36:20]
Jackson Dart
No, I don't want him to say he's sorry. Stand on what you believe in. But it can't be a problem when I stand on what I believe in. And that's all that matters to me. Just as long as we have that understanding, it's all good.
- [36:30]
Alan Hahn
And I think that's well said. Cuz I don't think he should have to apologize.
- [36:34]
Don LaGreca
Of course not.
- [36:35]
Alan Hahn
You know, and Carter shouldn't have to apologize how he feels about it.
- [36:39]
Don LaGreca
But this Don, that's a different. Again, if Carter text him and said, what are you doing? And they got into it that way and no one like you kept it between men, that's. But that to me shows a respect for your teammate and letting him know. But I'm not believing in what you're doing.
- [36:59]
Alan Hahn
But here's the rubber and I don't think there's any way around this, and you could have a problem with it or not. Is that Carter's telling you that his, his feelings on this are more important than football. Like getting that out was more important than keeping it in house and saving the team. That's what he's telling you. Whether you like that or not. I mean, that's kind of what he's telling you, right? I guess, like he could have, you know, I get uncomfortable with the whole, you know, he needs to man up and stuff. Like. Yeah, if he felt that the team and their, their camaraderie and their chemistry was more important, he would have kept it in house. He went public with his feelings on this matter are more important than the football.
- [37:35]
Don LaGreca
But okay, if that's true, and again, if he feels that way, he feels that way. I can't begrudge him of his feelings and, and all that. But then you can't tell me then that you know. But it's not. It's. It's good. We're good. Because how are you good if you disagree with something? He did that because I get out
- [37:59]
Alan Hahn
again, I'm speaking for him. But the way I take it is he felt it was important to let the world know how he felt about it. He did that and now we move on. I guess that's the way it works for them. Like, hey, you told the world you supported Donald Trump. I felt I needed to tell the world that. I don't like that. Now we're good. And if that's the case, that I'm good now we can get back to football.
- [38:18]
Don LaGreca
Well, that's what I'm hoping for. You're right about that. Because you know what? If this could. Here's the positive. Here's the positive I want it to become, Don, is that they both had their say, and you know what they did? They talked it out, and they didn't turn into. It didn't turn into a fistfight or a screaming match. And they both walked away still having mutual respect for each other. Because beyond the fact that maybe they have different political beliefs, they know they can still work together and they can still have a common goal and still have 99 other things that they are that they share in common. So the one thing that they don't, can't pull them apart. And isn't that the example we're all trying to get to in this world? So if I can find the positive here, that's the. That's the thing I will find, is that Carter wasn't. Didn't turn this into, I can't play with this dude. Instead, let's talk about it, because you and I came in together. You and I, you know, like, we need to be part of something to turn this franchise around. I want to work with you on this. And Dart said, yeah, man, like, it's not personal. I want to work with you, and let's make this right. And if that's where it goes, it
- [39:28]
Alan Hahn
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- [41:40]
Don LaGreca
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [41:43]
ServiceTitan/La Quinta/Wyndham/Wayfair/Grainger Advertisers
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [41:45]
Don LaGreca
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [41:53]
Alan Hahn
Last call CRU at 1-800-919-3776. Great song by the way. Six o' clock enn with Anthony Pusick. But I was told I got Jameis Winston's a gem. I mean he just, he's so funny. Usually is somebody that I'm entertained by. And I was told by our producer Anthony Pusick, we've got to play Jameis Winston's opinion on the Dark Carter situation.
- [42:14]
Anthony Rosenberg
You see FIFA World cup over there. I think one thing we're going to quickly understand is like we got people coming from all nationalities, religions, perspective that's coming into this city. Are we just going to get mad and say, oh my God, why are these people from there coming over here? They taking all the parking spots, they're doing all this stuff. Are we going to embrace the diversity that sport brings us? Are we going to embrace the platform that we gonna get to cheer, celebrate or cry? Have a kick with our buddy, have a a tough conversation with our sister about what's going on in this country right now or what's going on in the world right now. I think that's what is bigger than that. And I think this team is going to benefit from being able to deal with this situation that's been put on us about opinions, circumstances, conditions and facts. Even if they true, they're still opinions of other people. We know what we represent up here in this building. We know what we get paid to do. But a lot of us are opening our eyes to the influence that we do have on the whole world. And that's a beautiful thing when you can humble yourself and realize that, man, I got impact. I can really be the change that I desire to see. And that's what I'm encouraging these guys to do.
- [43:22]
Don LaGreca
I love that it's really what you and I are trying to talk about here. We are not taking aside what we're talking about is the importance of understanding that too often, and you use the word polarized and it's. It's exactly it. And as long as he is in office, it's going to happen to this country and it sucks. But that's where we are. And what Jamis is saying there is. I think what we were both trying to say is to come together and figure out how to work in our. Our little world here, understanding that there's. We're all going to be different. We're all going to have differences. Don, you and I have differences. We don't agree on everything. We have points of view about things in life and stuff that we don't agree, but it can't get in the way of whatever the common goal is. And especially for these guys, their common goal is to play together on a football team and have success and work together and then show everybody. I think what James is saying, show the world that you see, we don't let that stuff break.
- [44:25]
Alan Hahn
We have to find a way. It's. It's. I know it's so hard because it's so crazy out there. And, you know, I have my political beliefs. I'm pretty much down the middle. I don't make it public because I don't think it's anybody's business.
- [44:38]
Don LaGreca
And I hate everybody.
- [44:39]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, well, yeah, I kind of feel the same way sometimes, but, you know, I have some of my best friends, people that I love that I disagree with politically and it's always been the case. And I still love them. We still. We agree to disagree, we move on. But some people can't let it go and good on them. I mean, if that's how they. If it's the most important thing in the world, the reason why politics have never been that important to me. I know they should be. But, you know, I live in my bubble of sports in my family, and I kind of worry about me, you know, what helps me, what benefits me, because at the end of the day, that's the most important thing in the world for me. But there are people that are consumed by it, and that's how they choose to live their life. But we just got to find. I know it sounds lame. We just got to find a way to all get along well, the work
- [45:28]
Don LaGreca
together, just to be able to work together. The common goal is to get through life together and find ways to have success despite our differences. And I think that's the example here.
- [45:38]
Alan Hahn
And again, I don't have to prove anything to anybody. But you know what? But me being cool with what Dart did doesn't mean that I'm a Trump supporter. And me ripping into Carter doesn't mean that I'm not.
- [45:50]
Don LaGreca
I just didn't like Don.
- [45:51]
Alan Hahn
I didn't like it, but I'm cool with him. Like, at the end of the day, I'm cool with Abdul Carter because I just want him to sack quarterbacks.
- [45:58]
Don LaGreca
And, you know, I respect that he feels strongly about something to a point that he was affected by it, to say something. What I didn't like was that it. It's like when it comes to a teammate, I'm looking at it from the sports perspective only. And we use the show as the example. You guys are teammates. You've known each other for a couple of years. You're supposed to be close. That's one of those where it's like, that's a. That's a private thing. If then you wanted to say, hey, I talked to Jackson. I don't really. I don't believe in that, but I'm cool with him. Then you could go public. But I felt like that was a bit of a. You made it about you. And. And that was not a man to man thing right there.
- [46:41]
ServiceTitan/La Quinta/Wyndham/Wayfair/Grainger Advertisers
But.
- [46:42]
Don LaGreca
But that's what I didn't like.
- [46:43]
Alan Hahn
See, I don't think it's selfish. I just look at it as that he really felt like it was important to let the world know because at that particular moment.
- [46:52]
Don LaGreca
But why rush to social media? First talk to the guy.
- [46:55]
Alan Hahn
I know you're right. But at the end of the day, he really wanted the world to know. He told.
- [46:59]
Don LaGreca
All right, so you're 150,000 or whatever it is, strangers following are more important than your teammate. I don't have any followers. He has, but I'm just saying, like, that's more important. All those people that you don't know is more important than your teammate.
- [47:12]
Alan Hahn
I want to squeeze in some of these calls before Enn, Mike and Asbury park, you're on ESPN New York.
- [47:19]
Ian O'Connor
Hey, guys. Let's go. Nick.
- [47:20]
Alan Hahn
Yep, go ahead.
- [47:21]
Ian O'Connor
I do want to try. I do want to try and give you a little bit different perspective, especially with Alan. I mean, you guys say you're down the middle on it, but you're not coming across that way, honestly. But I think you should think about it from the perspective of the black player. For the last 10 years, they've been trashed almost on a daily basis by Donald Trump. And Trump's approval rating, you know, is in the garbage can. And it's even worse among African Americans. I mean, his administration is firing black generals and officers in the military. They took down Jackie Robinson's picture, for God's sakes, in the Pentagon because he's black. So black people are dealing with something that we are not.
- [48:03]
Alan Hahn
And I get that, but it just shows you, Mike, we're up against it.
- [48:09]
Ian O'Connor
No, real quick, real quick, real quick. Here you have the white quarterback face of the franchise in Giant Skier saying, go big blue at a Trump rally. And across the NFL, you have black players that do not like this man. So here. And I guarantee you Abdul Carter was not the only black giant that had a problem with it.
- [48:29]
Don LaGreca
Right?
- [48:30]
Alan Hahn
But you know what's so weird, Mike, is that you saw Saquon Barkley take a picture with Trump at the Oval Office. We've seen Lawrence Taylor introduce Donald Trump at rally. It's not as cut and dried as that man. Because we've seen African Americans support Trump.
- [48:45]
Don LaGreca
But I. Again, this is. We're not saying Abdul Carter was wrong to feel the way he feels. It was the method. I just felt like the first thing is your teammate and your team. That's. That's it. If he wanted to go to. If he wanted to tweet about it or whatever it was after talking to Dart to get like, what was that about? What are you about? Like, that.
- [49:10]
Alan Hahn
That.
- [49:11]
Don LaGreca
Fine. It just created a controversy, and the locker room had to have a meeting. You heard some player. Luminor was like, this is not an issue. Like, they. There was a lot of players who were annoyed that it became a public thing.
- [49:25]
Alan Hahn
This is why it's so difficult.
- [49:26]
Don LaGreca
That's all it's about. It's not about what he said.
- [49:28]
Alan Hahn
It's not about how he feels all right. But we live in a world, unfortunately, that if we don't eviscerate Dart for what he did, we're maga. If we give any criticism at all to Carter, then we're. Then you know what I'm saying.
- [49:41]
Don LaGreca
I do know. You're right.
- [49:42]
Alan Hahn
You can't win by having an opinion.
- [49:44]
Don LaGreca
I'm not trying to win.
- [49:45]
Alan Hahn
There can't be any nuance. There's no nuance anymore. There's no nuance of let, you know, give the kid a break. Oh, you give the kid. You must be, you must be a Trump supporter. Or if you support Carter and what he did, well, then obviously you must be liberal. Like no, why can't there be the nuance? That's when we say he said we gave away our leanings. We really didn't. We just because, honestly, just. It's because the nuance is that I could see both sides of the story.
- [50:09]
Don LaGreca
Yeah.
- [50:10]
Alan Hahn
But unfortunately that comes across as weak. So I'm not here to please anybody. I'm just here to give you what I think is going on now. ENN is next. Donna Rosenberg taking up until Mets baseball at 6:30 on ESPN New York.
- [50:23]
Don LaGreca
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