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- [00:01]
Don Hahn
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:04]
Peter Rosenberg
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:06]
Don Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.
- [00:15]
Peter Rosenberg
Game time is brought to you by Televardu Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, it's Tully time. There is a battle for the best record in the American League between the Tigers and the Blue Jays. Certainly Yankee fans will be keeping an eye on that. That's really all that's happening. And it's at 6:40. Otherwise it's a dark night in sports. Mets and Yankees are both off. Yankees will start a series with the Phillies coming up tomorrow while the Mets will be in San Francisco to take Giants can't take anything out. This is, this is all we got. Tullamore do the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Iris whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore do or try the new Tullamore do, honey. During today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore due response. Like when he holds it. So Jordan was at camp today and he said there was some good and some not so good. Why don't you start with the good Abdul Carter? Yeah, Beast.
- [01:11]
Jordan Rahnan
Yeah, he's gonna be a monster. I mean he. So I always say when you're like a sort of like a situational pass rusher in training camp is your time to shine, right. Because you're not necessarily working with the starters. So then you get to go against the second string offensive lineman and then the second string offensive linemen are guys you never really even want to put into the game. Right. So they can't handle like pseudo starters. Well, Abdul Carter's still working with the second team defense right now because Kayvon Thibodeau and Brian Burns are the veterans here and you know, they're working with the first team defense for the most part.
- [01:44]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [01:44]
Jordan Rahnan
So Abdul Carter is working on this against the second team offense and offensive line and he's just throwing guys around like they're not there. Getting in the backfield in like two seconds. Like he looks like he's going to be the real deal. And it's hard to imagine a player with that physical ability not being a high end player in the league. Like something would have to go wrong. But if it's just you stay healthy and he gets on the field and he plays and he even had a rep where he's, you know, lined up and over the center and he's tossing spins and then throws a center like to another planet, you know. Like, they're going to be using them all over the field this year, and he should. He's gonna be a factor.
- [02:25]
Peter Rosenberg
And he just got lost in the shuffle because of dart. Like, everybody focused and they're like, yeah, we know he's good, but let's focus on the quarterback because, let's face it, he can become. Abdul Carter could become the next great player in this league. If the Giants don't have a quarterback, it's not going to lead to too many wins or a championship.
- [02:44]
Jordan Rahnan
Well, you just, in your passers can't be great if you're not winning, right? That's when you do your damage and when you can't stop the run, which they haven't done.
- [02:50]
Peter Rosenberg
Look at Dexter Lawrence's career, right? If. If the Giants were a winning team, he would be getting way more love than he gets now. Giant fans appreciate him. I think he's appreciated by the experts around the NFL, and whenever they list the top 10 athletes in New York, he's on it. You know, he's. You know, he's good, but he's not getting the love because he hasn't been able to do it, like, on a consistent level in the. In the postseason where people are paying attention on a really good team. So. But you throw him in and I. And I still. Thibodeau can be frustrating, but there's talent there, you know? You know, there's talent there. This, this. There's really no reason, especially with the moves they made during the off season to strengthen the defensive backs, that this shouldn't be a really good defense.
- [03:31]
Jordan Rahnan
Yeah, the defense is definitely what you should be excited about with the Giants. Like, that's. That's the area you say, okay, this is a pretty good unit, especially that defensive front. I mean, Dexter Lawrence, Brian Burns, Kevon Thibodeau, and Abdul Carter. I mean, if you. If you get in pass rush situations, third and long situations, or you're winning at the end of the game, like they're going to do damage. Like, there's a lot of guys that can win one on one there, which the Giants, like, if you look back three or four years ago when Joe Judge was here, they didn't have those guys that could win on one at all.
- [03:58]
Peter Rosenberg
And when the Giants have been good and, you know, eli wins the MVPs and Phil Sims wins the MVP and O.J. anderson in the Super Bowls. But really, the Giants, when they're at their best, the defense is humming and they're getting pressure on the quarterback. That's why they beat The Patriots twice is because they did not let Tom Brady breathe. And OCU Minor and Justin Tuck are legendary for that. And that's what the Giants are hoping that this can become. Yeah, go back to the old NASCAR defense where you're moving guys in different positions. And I remember Jim Fossil telling me a long time ago when I covered the giants back in 99 about, especially early in the year, how important it is to have multiple guys because you want to be able to change them out. Right. You don't want to have to leave the same four out there. If you're playing a four, three or even, you know, three, four with three guys, you want to be able to rotate guys bodies in, especially when it's like, you know, 80 degrees and it's warm or you're playing down in Tampa and you're playing in Miami, whatever. And it seems like they're going to have multiple bodies to throw at some offensive lines this year.
- [04:59]
Jordan Rahnan
Yeah, and then you need that because let's be honest, this is. First of all, that's a position you want to be fresh at. I think you need like basically eight or nine guys to play on the defensive line these days at least. And. And think about the advantage then you gain against offensive linemen who have to stay in the whole game. Right. So the fresher your defensive line, the better you are. Like Dexter Lawrence can't play 90% of the SAPS. You're. You're actually decreasing his productivity by doing that. Like, if you get him at like 70%, you're probably going to get more production at 70% than you are at 90%. So all. All the bodies certainly help. And then, look, it's all about the quarterback though, right, Don?
- [05:36]
Peter Rosenberg
And how was Dart?
- [05:38]
Jordan Rahnan
It's been a little bit of a slow start for Jackson.
- [05:40]
Peter Rosenberg
Dart. Yeah, you know, first.
- [05:41]
Jordan Rahnan
First couple days through pick six in his first pass the first day today, I think he went 3 of 8 passing like, which isn't great for sure. Holding onto the ball a little too wrong, couple sacks, trying to run a lot like I, you know, kind of what you expect from a rookie quarterback. And so these are part of the ups and downs and figuring out NFL defenses in the speed that. That's partly why, you know, a lot of people said Jackson Dart, you probably should have him sit the start.
- [06:09]
Peter Rosenberg
There's a reason why he went 24. You know, it wasn't that strong as looking back at a quarterback draft. And he goes 24. So that tells you that he's a bit of a project. Now, the Giants traded back in. Everybody's excited. The whole Daniel Jones era is over. Don't make him out to be something that he's not. Same thing with Justin Fields. You know, when we played the Chris Canty. He's going to go to the suit and Pro Bowl. They stop. All right, Got. There's a. There's a work in progress. These aren't great teams to begin with. We don't even know when Dart's going to start.
- [06:42]
Jordan Rahnan
Well, that's the number one question I get, right? Like when. When we can see Jackson dark. When's he going to play? When's he going to play?
- [06:46]
Peter Rosenberg
Mine going to be Week one, right? I mean, as much as. As much as it's not going to.
- [06:50]
Jordan Rahnan
Be early in the season, it's not.
- [06:52]
Peter Rosenberg
I don't want it to be like.
- [06:54]
Jordan Rahnan
I don't understand want it to be.
- [06:56]
Peter Rosenberg
But we get calls sometimes like, he should start Week one. Why? Why? Just because you like him? Just because he's somebody. That's not Daniel Jones. You don't want to mess this up because I. You can mess a quarterback up. And I really believe, even though Zach Wilson hasn't become anything, I think the jets starting him right away was a huge mistake. Sam Darnold, the same thing.
- [07:19]
Jordan Rahnan
David Carr is a guy that a lot of people.
- [07:20]
Peter Rosenberg
David Carr got killed in Houston. He was killed. And I don't know what this Giants offensive line is going to be. I know it's supposed to be, but there's a reason why you get Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston. I hate to put it in these terms, but they're disposable for the organization. God forbid Russell Wilson goes out there and gets beat up and destroyed. Yeah, you feel bad for him, the person, but from a player standpoint, all right, throw Winston in there. And if he gets hurt. All right, throw, then. Then maybe we'll figure something else out. We'll put the veto in. But the future is. Our. Is. Is. Is Dart. Let's not get him killed. Let's give him the best chance to succeed. And there's no way. The best chance for him to succeed as an NFL player and is playing Week 1 against the Washington Commanders.
- [08:01]
Jordan Rahnan
I get the idea of people wanting him to play and play early. Hey, you gain experience, you get it out of the way, right? You go through the learning curve. Eli kind of did it as rookie, right? Came in. What were they, 6 and 4, 5 and 4. 5 and 4 came in 5 and 4. Played the rest of the season. They kind of basically gave up on the season at that point by putting him in. But. And that worked. But there's also. There's examples of guys starting Week one, but there's also example of guys not playing their rookie year and it working.
- [08:26]
Peter Rosenberg
Like Mahomes.
- [08:27]
Jordan Rahnan
Like Mahomes who by the way, who was in charge of Patrick Mahomes development in Kansas City. That was basically Mike Kafka's job in Kansas City that year. So he has an example of it working like now the Bills where Joe Shane and Brian Dabo were having an example of putting a quarterback in right away. Josh Allen went in right away. Remember their plan was Nathan Peterman, right?
- [08:51]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [08:51]
Jordan Rahnan
It lasted one half of one game. They put in Josh Allen and sure, that's worked too. But there's examples on both sides. So I don't think it has to be one way or the other. And if you have a guy and the Giants have two that they think could at least hold them over and be competitive enough until he's ready and I think the likelihood is you'll see him later this season at early.
- [09:14]
Peter Rosenberg
Now let's see how it looks because as you said, a bit of a slow start, but maybe, maybe he catches fire. Maybe he ends up lighting it up in the preseason and maybe hearts and minds can get changed.
- [09:22]
Jordan Rahnan
But even then, even then should. And training camp, you shouldn't make too much of it where you make this blanket statement, you have to start this guy, you have to play this guy.
- [09:33]
Peter Rosenberg
No. Well, because people think that because you have to win games. I don't know if even Jackson Dart helps you do that. Now the other side of things with the jets, huge scare earlier in the day when we found out that Justin Fields was taken off the field on a cart. Turns out that it's just a dislocated toe. He's Day to day. Here is Rich Samini earlier today on SportsCenter with the update on Fields.
- [09:54]
Rich Samini
I'm told by a source that the injury is not significant. They don't think he'll be out that long and they're very hopeful that he will be ready for that Week one showdown against Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers. So that's the news. What happened was it happened about 9:25 this morning. It was a bootleg. He was rolling to the right. He was looking for his tight end, Jeremy Ruckert. He underthrew him and there was some mild pressure from a defensive. He pulled up, all of a sudden he went down. He sat on the ground ever so briefly. He popped up and he limped off the field Very noticeably with the help of a trainer. He got under an injury tent. They immediately took off his right shoe. They looked at that toe. They sent out a cart for him and he popped up on the cart and was taken to the locker room. Now, two important notes about that. One, he sat in the passenger seat of the cart. He was not on the back like you see so many athletes getting carted off on the back of the card. So that was a positive. And when he got to the entrance of the locker room, he got out under his own power and walked into the locker room. So two positive visuals for you right there. But again, the headline is that they think he'll be out very not long and we'll be back for opening day.
- [10:58]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. So no issue. In a matter of fact, nobody does.
- [11:00]
Jordan Rahnan
It better than Rich Samita.
- [11:01]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, he's amazing. But it would also, it also can work as a positive in the sense that, you know, now he gets to see Tyrod Taylor and, and not feel rushed and maybe be a little bit ready, more ready once he gets to the start of the season. This is interesting for Aaron Glenn, how the offense looked after Fields left.
- [11:20]
Aaron Glenn
Well, here's what I told the players is. And it really goes into competition. When you win a rep, I want to see you consistently win. And when you lose a rep, I want to see if you can come back and win. And to me, when you look at practice, I thought the defense did a really good job of winning reps early in practice. But then after that, man, the offense start to pick it up. So when Tyra went down, I actually saw the offense really start to pick it up, you know, because of the fact that I want to make sure that I hit them on. Listen, we lost the rep, let's keep going. Had nothing to do with the injury or anything like that. It's just what we want to be when we, when we lose the rep, we want to win the next.
- [11:55]
Peter Rosenberg
Now let me explain that. Several times during today's press conference he confused Justin with Tyrod. So he meant Justin. He said Tyrod. So I guess early in the season and he's confusing the two. But he did say that it looked better with Tyrod. So. But he kind of caught himself like, I don't want to cause the quarterback controversy, you know, it had nothing to do with the injury. And let's face it, Tyrod, even though he's new to the jets as well, listen, he's a veteran and he's going to handle things a lot better than a 26 year old is going to handle them. So I wouldn't read too much into that. But right now, at their stage of their career, is there really much of a difference between the two?
- [12:29]
Jordan Rahnan
I guarantee you there's people in that building who think players wise, probably that think Tyrod is a better option than Justin Fields. Tyrod Taylor is the kind of guy you, you can't have a more respected guy in the locker room. And he could play him. He's not some guy who can't play. So he, he has the respect of all the players. They think he's, they think he's a pretty good quarterback. So I guarantee you there's guys on that roster that think that, oh, hey, we're probably actually better with TYROD TAYLOR.
- [12:53]
Peter Rosenberg
And 100% right, but unfortunately those players want to win. And what the jets are trying to do is evaluate. You went and got Justin Fields because of his ceiling. I can go out there and I could say I think the jets have a better chance to win week one with Tyrod Taylor at quarterback than Justin Fields. But that doesn't mean I'd start Tyrod Taylor because it's a progression year, not a lot of expectations. They want to use this two year paying of $20 million a year, right? On average. So they want to see if they've got a quarterback that they can have be their franchise guy. So they want to see him play. If he does, if he can't play, you got Tyrod Taylor. He'll be able to play. And the idea is if you can't.
- [13:30]
Jordan Rahnan
Play this year, then he's just the, he's just the fill in like Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston are for the, for the next quarterback that they get.
- [13:36]
Peter Rosenberg
And you don't want to lose him because you don't want to lose the evaluation period. But if you, if you found out he couldn't play again till November, I mean, you've got just as good a chance to win. I would think those games with Tyrod Taylor as Justin Fields is getting his way, getting going, the upside, because he's younger and, and there's something there that hopefully the jets can tap into is what you're hoping for. So him being out, you don't worry about wins and losses, you worry about time to evaluate. Because they want to know by the end of these two years, hopefully by the end of this year, whether they've got a quarterback of the future or not. And then that'll mean, do we extend him or are we just going to, you know, buy him out of his last year of his contract or have him back up and then just have him go quietly into that good night at the end of next year. So. So that.
- [14:19]
Jordan Rahnan
But it is important, I think, that Justin Fields gets back in a decent amount of time because like, if he has to miss time or the summer is really slow for him and he's not 100%, you want him to be 100% and get ample time to prepare if he's going to be the quarterback week one. They say they expect him to be ready for week one. That can't mean he's got to miss three weeks. Three or four weeks here.
- [14:43]
Peter Rosenberg
That's good.
- [14:43]
Jordan Rahnan
You know what I mean? Then, then you're in a position where you don't. You want. You don't have him at 100% full strength and at the same time he hasn't had all the time on task to kind of get ready. So it is important for him if you're going to move forward with him at least to start the season that he is back and pretty soon. So I get why it's a scare for jets fans. You want. You want to see him, but it's not going to change you. Your win total is not going to change that much whether it's Justin Fields or Tyrod. How about this? You think their win total changes at all in Vegas? If it was. Skyrod Taylor is no quarterback. No.
- [15:16]
Peter Rosenberg
Right now.
- [15:16]
Jordan Rahnan
No. I don't think so either.
- [15:18]
Peter Rosenberg
What are they probably like overreaction.
- [15:20]
Jordan Rahnan
Six and a half. Ish.
- [15:21]
Peter Rosenberg
I mean, Greeny almost cried on get up and I'm getting text messages from John Winthrop. Our pinhead suit. Season's over like the se. How. How is the season over? What is your season anyway?
- [15:31]
Jordan Rahnan
Yeah. What are you trying to.
- [15:32]
Peter Rosenberg
He wants to evaluate. But if you found out he was out for the year, I mean, it's devastating for the evaluation, but does it really change the 2025 season? My God, we get the Greeny sound. I keep referring to it, but I want to like hear it because it's all over social media. Because he had the breaking news and it was like he was breaking news that, you know, he had five minutes to live. I love Greeny, but he loves to milk his Jet garbage.
- [15:59]
Jordan Rahnan
Yeah, well, he's a. He's a demoralized Jet fan. You know, he's been beaten down by the. By the Jets. He was. They got him. They got him fully on board for the Aaron Rodgers era and then took the ultimate letdown in l. Right.
- [16:14]
Peter Rosenberg
I mean, I don't want to listen I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm going to play pop psychologist with some Jet fans because I know you guys. I'm not one of you, but I know you. I worked with you for 16 years. Some of my best friends are Jet fans. We've always had more Jet fans than Giant fans, it feels like at this radio station. Right? So I know your plight. I know it. I've studied it. There is a part of every one of you that secretly enjoys this, that.
- [16:45]
Jordan Rahnan
Likes the losing in misery.
- [16:46]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. Because what I'm going to tell you why. I'm going to tell you why. Because it helps, right? Because it's typical. So you cry the blues and it also takes the pressure off, right? Like now, Now I can. Now I can.
- [16:58]
Jordan Rahnan
What pressure are we talking?
- [16:59]
Peter Rosenberg
I really don't know because again, there were no expectations this year anyway. But to play the whole, oh, you know, jets, again, typical jets, we're done. It's then you put yourself at rock bottom where all you can now go is up. So. And you've been down there so long, it almost feels comfortable. It's like your night nights down there, you know, it's a. But it's a. We gotta. We gotta play the Greenie sound at some point. Those guys are endeavoring to get it.
- [17:24]
Jordan Rahnan
Let me ask you this.
- [17:25]
Peter Rosenberg
Yes.
- [17:25]
Jordan Rahnan
What do you think the jets over under is right now with Justin Fields as their quarterback?
- [17:30]
Peter Rosenberg
Five and a half.
- [17:30]
Jordan Rahnan
Five and a half?
- [17:31]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. So, like, what are we doing?
- [17:34]
Jordan Rahnan
I mean.
- [17:35]
Peter Rosenberg
No, it would not.
- [17:36]
Jordan Rahnan
Is it gonna go to four and a half?
- [17:37]
Peter Rosenberg
No, it's not gonna.
- [17:38]
Jordan Rahnan
When. If Tyrod Taylor were the quarterback. Like, you want it, you want to see it? You want. You want the opportunity to get a full evaluation of Justin Fields? Maybe you could hit on something, right? That's kind of what the jets are doing. They're taking a crap shoot. Hey, let's just see if what we have in Justin Fields, maybe it pans out. Maybe we have something good. But they're over. Under is five and a half for the season.
- [17:56]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, that's what I was thinking because like John Winthrop, season's over, like. Cause I. If you missed the beginning of the show. I'm going to work out. I checked my phone one last time to kind of see what's going on in the world, right? Because I'm going to be indisposed for the next hour and I see seasons over and I see Justin Fields card it all. So as I'm working out, I'm thinking because you're in your own head listening to the music, whatever, going, what season is over? Like, what are you talking about? You know, two years ago when Aaron Rodgers terrorists Achilles. Yep.
- [18:27]
Jordan Rahnan
Season over.
- [18:28]
Peter Rosenberg
Might go to the Super Bowl. Season's over. Well, when you're over under five and a half wins, what season is over? Like, the reaction should be, oh, man, we're going to miss that. Time to evaluate him. That, that sucks for him. I'm not telling you to not be upset, but season over. Come on, man.
- [18:46]
Jordan Rahnan
So jump the gun.
- [18:47]
Peter Rosenberg
And I got to hear the Greenie.
- [18:48]
Jordan Rahnan
He's going to be back for week one. That's the report.
- [18:51]
Peter Rosenberg
We're getting the Greenie stuff. We'll play that. Want to get the Mets and Yankees into the fold as well. 1-800-919-3776. We got an ENN coming up at 6 o'. Clock. We'll take you up until 7. Then it's Pat O'. Keefe and it's all happening right here on Donhannon Rosenberg with Jordan Rahnan on ESPN New York.
- [19:08]
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- [20:09]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [20:13]
Peter Rosenberg
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [20:14]
Don Hahn
Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast.
- [20:21]
Peter Rosenberg
John Winthorpe. God love him. All right. He's our pinhead suit. My boss. Known him for 20 years.
- [20:31]
Jordan Rahnan
Tomorrow. Bold strategy to call your your boss a pinhead suit. By the way.
- [20:35]
Peter Rosenberg
It's all right.
- [20:35]
Jordan Rahnan
It is Jordan's new.
- [20:37]
Peter Rosenberg
He doesn't realize that anybody in that position. We've called him that for years.
- [20:40]
Jordan Rahnan
No, I. I realize it's still bold.
- [20:42]
Peter Rosenberg
All right. But that's. Yeah. Thank you so much. You know, we work from home on Fridays, so I won't see him in person. We'll see him during our Zoom meeting. And he's going on vacation.
- [20:53]
Jordan Rahnan
Okay.
- [20:54]
Peter Rosenberg
So you would think before he left today that he would swing by and say, you know, good show.
- [21:01]
Jordan Rahnan
I'll see you when we get back.
- [21:02]
Peter Rosenberg
Gone. That's a debt's disrespectful to me. If I wasn't going to see you for a long time, wouldn't I swing by, make sure that, you know, have a good trip, man.
- [21:11]
Jordan Rahnan
Maybe he's going to send you a text.
- [21:12]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, that's not personal. Very impersonal. But that's a great idea. Let's do it. So here's the greenie, because as you just heard from Rich Samini before, the injury to Justin Fields happened like before 9:30 in the morning. So that's right in the wheelhouse. And get up. And so they broke in, get up with the story about Justin Fields. And at the time, in full disclosure, we didn't know the severity of the injury. All we knew is that he was carted off the field. But here. Here's Mike Greensburg's reaction to that news.
- [21:41]
Mike Greenberg
I am speechless. I don't know how to put into words how frustrating I am. I turn to others to speak on my behalf because quite candidly, if I were to speak right now, I don't know how well that would go for anyone. It is the first freaking day of practice and Justin Fields, they're not even in pads and Justin Fields is being carted off the field. As I have been touting all the. All this time, this is going to go so well. The jets are so much better than everybody thinks they're going to be. And all of a sudden, Justin Fields is being carted off the field at a practice. Who are you talking to over there?
- [22:13]
Peter Rosenberg
Kaymart.
- [22:14]
Mike Greenberg
Get on the phone and find out what's happening.
- [22:17]
Peter Rosenberg
He loves it.
- [22:19]
Jordan Rahnan
You think, you think deep down he loved it? Like the sick.
- [22:23]
Peter Rosenberg
I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I know these, I've worked with these people, the Joe Benignos of the world, who I owe part of my career to. When I did updates on the overnight on Fan, he would come on and. And talk sports with him. I've known Greenberg for like 20 plus years. These guys wouldn't know what to do with themselves if the jets ever won, like A piece of them professionally would be gone. Because now you're like everybody else. Like everybody else rooted for a team that won. Your team's now won so those moments wouldn't hit anymore. Again, I'm not saying it's performative. I'm not going there because Greenberg's not that guy. He's emotional. I'm just. I'm playing pop psychologist. I think deep down inside this, there's a comfort zone for these people when these things happen. And really was. Was the news today, even if, God forbid, he was seriously hurt, that he couldn't play, that you can't speak, you're a loss for. Stop it.
- [23:14]
Jordan Rahnan
Greeny's win total, what are the expectations? The Greenie win total looks. Seems to be a little higher than five.
- [23:20]
Peter Rosenberg
He had him at 12 and a half. And listen, if you had expectations of this team making the playoffs, like, that's on you, man. Like nobody else has them. The jets don't even have that. That's why they're not talking up anything.
- [23:30]
Jordan Rahnan
You think. You think Mets fans had that same. Yes. Had that same feeling?
- [23:33]
Peter Rosenberg
No, I think it's a phobia.
- [23:35]
Jordan Rahnan
So do they. Do they. Do they kick it once they start winning? You think because the Mets fans are. They got to feel different?
- [23:41]
Peter Rosenberg
Like, you can't say, the woe's me. My team never wins. If they win the super bowl, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. And I wouldn't say they wouldn't be happy, but there'd be a piece of what has been their personality, the fabric of who they are for so long. I think Red Sox fans went through it after they won. Cub fans went through it after they won.
- [23:58]
Jordan Rahnan
But the Mets haven't even won yet, though, right?
- [24:00]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, I'm saying no because they're good.
- [24:05]
Jordan Rahnan
Now, and it looks like they're going to be consistently good and they've kind of stepped up to a different level. But you still think, like, deep down they have that. I want that pain at the end.
- [24:15]
Peter Rosenberg
Let me ask you this, and this is serious, all right?
- [24:18]
Jordan Rahnan
This is.
- [24:18]
Peter Rosenberg
I'm not being that guy. So Greeny wants to talk up that they're going to be better than people think. Okay.
- [24:24]
Jordan Rahnan
All right, that's fine.
- [24:26]
Peter Rosenberg
Is he talking the jets up that they're going to surprise people because he believes it or because he's hoping it sets up the disappointment of now being able to rip them for not living up to the expectations?
- [24:39]
Jordan Rahnan
He said you think it's the latter? I would say it's the former.
- [24:43]
Peter Rosenberg
It's the sports equivalent of putting a cigarette out in your palm. It's. There's something like. Like dominatrix about it. I don't think it's like the S and M of sports.
- [24:53]
Jordan Rahnan
He re. He really wants them.
- [24:55]
Peter Rosenberg
Thank you. So may I have another?
- [24:57]
Jordan Rahnan
I think he genuinely wants them.
- [24:58]
Peter Rosenberg
No, he does. No, you're missing my point. He does want them to succeed. Desperately wants them to succeed. He is a die hard fan. But I do think there does come a point when you're so battered, so beaten. Like he needs. From the song.
- [25:14]
Jordan Rahnan
He needs the pain.
- [25:16]
Peter Rosenberg
I'm saying you become. It's. What's. What's the name of the. It's Escape me. There's a lyric from a song from Smashing Pumpkins. I'm in love with my sadness. I'm in love with my sadness. There's something to. It's become part of you. The sadness, the disappointment now has become a part of you. We're now you. It's like you. You. You'll miss it.
- [25:44]
Jordan Rahnan
So he doesn't even want to set the bar low. He wants it to be high so he could be disappointed in a way.
- [25:50]
Peter Rosenberg
Do you remember I'm a big swingers fan. You know the movie Swingers?
- [25:53]
Jordan Rahnan
Yes, of course.
- [25:54]
Peter Rosenberg
Jon Favreau, Vince Vaughn.
- [25:56]
Jordan Rahnan
Yeah. And play NHL 94.
- [25:58]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. He's talking greatest video game ever. All right. He's. He's talking to his friend who. Because his. His girl, Jon Favreau's girlfriend won't call him back. He moved from Queens out to California to pursue his career. She starts seeing somebody else. She's not calling him. He's desperate to hear from his, I guess, still girlfriend, even though they didn't break up, but they're not together. And his friend is telling him that he went through the same thing. They had a girlfriend, they broke up. And he's like. And then what happens is you begin to miss. Not her. You miss missing her because when you get over her, you miss being hurt by it because you live with it for so long. It's a great line. Because I think that's what's happened to Jet fans and Met fans, is that you've suffered for so long that you might miss that. And you're kind of like holding onto it because it's become part of your personality. That's the DNA of a Jet fan. The disappointment, the losing. And as desperately as you want to win, I think there's something comfortable about hearing that bad news, exaggerating it. Why else would you not take a year where the expectations are low and they just start, oh, they're going to be better than people think. Aren't you? Don't you. Don't you sense that you're setting yourself up for more pain? Why would you do that to yourself? Isn't this the perfect year? As a Jet fan that suffered to just say, I could just lay back and enjoy whatever, because it's the beginning of a new regime. There's no expectation. Why can't you just go back and luxuriate in the fact that there's no pressure? Just watch a team in its infancy build. Now all of a sudden it's, oh, you know, Chris Canty throwing out expectations about mvp. You know, Mike, Mike Greenberg, I thought this team was good, better. Why would you do that to you? Because you want to set yourself up for the pain.
- [27:44]
Jordan Rahnan
I don't think it's necessarily. He wants to set him up for the pain and having him getting punched in the nose. I think it's. He's always used to there being expectations when you know that, oh, there's expectations for the jets, they're going to be good and then them flopping. So now he's trying to convince himself in any way possible, hey, this is still going to be a good season. So here's what he convinced himself, right? The jets aren't supposed to be good, but everyone's going to be wrong because it's really hard to predict the NFL anyway. So, you know, because everyone's predicting to be bad. You know what, this is actually the year they're going to be good. So because they don't have a lot of expectations, they're going to be much better. And I think that's how he convinces himself because he wants to go into the season. And I think most fans do this because, I mean, I deal with it all the time. Don't like to the point where my daughter was like 10 years old and she's like, daddy, why do you always tell the Giant fans they're going to be better every year when you know they're going to stick? Right?
- [28:37]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [28:37]
Jordan Rahnan
And it's like, I don't want to crush their. I don't want to crush their hopes in the middle of the summer. I don't want to crush their hopes in the spring. But you try to. You want to be optimistic. So I feel like Green, he's like that. He wants to be optimistic. So this is how he convinced himself to be optimistic.
- [28:50]
Peter Rosenberg
That's one theory. And I think you convince yourself to be optimistic because you Set yourself up for the pain that you're used to. Why would you want to set yourself up for that? This is the one year where you don't have to do it. You don't have to set yourself up for that.
- [29:04]
Jordan Rahnan
You have to be a real masochist to do this stuff, don't you?
- [29:06]
Peter Rosenberg
No, but I don't even know he. And believe me, these people are not conscious of this. That's why I'm saying it's not performative. They're not conscious of it. It's their subconscious making them do this, because they long for the pain, because they know that more than success, they've lived with this for so long, it's who they are.
- [29:25]
Jordan Rahnan
I'm trying to think. I'm a Nick fan. Like, I wouldn't. I don't want pain. I want them to actually win. You know? Like, I. I can't imagine. I know you say it subconsciously, but I can't imagine even subconsciously wanting the Knicks. Wanting to be disappointed by the Knicks.
- [29:40]
Peter Rosenberg
As much as the Knicks don't win. It's not to the level of being a. Jeff, these people have been through so much. Jordan.
- [29:48]
Jordan Rahnan
No, I know. Look, I understand.
- [29:50]
Peter Rosenberg
You know, at least the Knicks.
- [29:51]
Jordan Rahnan
I got a family, you know, so I get it.
- [29:54]
Peter Rosenberg
It's. Listen, it's just my theory, but I've been close to it. It's an educated guess, but I have a feeling, because I know these people, and it's come. It's just become part of them. Jose in Brooklyn, you're on ESPN New York. What's up, Jose?
- [30:07]
Jose
Good afternoon, Don, Jordan. How are you guys doing today?
- [30:10]
Peter Rosenberg
Good.
- [30:11]
Jordan Rahnan
What's up, Jose?
- [30:12]
Jose
Oh, not much. I'm just laughing and getting a good kick out of this conversation because I still remembered when I was being claimed as that Jet fan that was being negative for wanting the Aaron Rodgers thing to explode and, you know, to hear Don kind of explain the whole Greenie and the Jet psyche, I'm going to kind of agree with him on that because I did kind of have like, a I told you so moment when it did, you know, explode in four plays. And then the next year, you know, it never came to fruition, and we had to deal with, you know, the injury, rehab. And I'm here to just say, you know what? I do agree with you guys. I do. I don't think it's performative from Greenie, but I do say I do get this sense of feeling from people who wanted the Aaron Rodgers thing to, like, you know, be the Willy Wonka. Magic ticket that was going to get us to the Super Bowl. I do think from that sense of fans that they're trying to, you know, elevate and use the no expectations to kind of think that we're going to be better than what they really are to just kind of set up for. Because it all makes great, great, great talk show stuff as well, guys. Because we all know Greenie has been a mast doing this ever since the Pennington days and we, we've been watching him build up this profile since Mike and Mike. So I totally see where you're getting it from, Don. I know, I know not a lot of Jet fans do agree with me, but shout out to Buddha and Ira and all those other Jet fans that did see the curve ahead of the time. Because believing in a 38 year old quarterback coming out, coming off of a broken hand. And we all know when you're 38, you don't get less injuries.
- [31:47]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, but, but yeah, it's, it's, it's. Thank you for agreeing.
- [31:51]
Jordan Rahnan
You nailed it. That there's these people out there who, who are jets. Diehard jets fans. But in the back of mine, they want them, they want that pain again.
- [32:00]
Peter Rosenberg
Or that not wants, but just, just, but just the way you react to it. It's just again, I don't think it's subconscious like Greenie will he. If he's listening, if he would call, he would completely disagree with me because I, I don't think he believes it. But I'm just telling you, I think it's in the subconscious. It just come the. The mind is a very. And it just odd and it just become part of what Jet fan is. And the interesting thing about sports is in any other walk of life, if you were in a relationship with a significant other that abused you the way the jets do, you'd get divorced, you'd walk away. If you had a friend that did this to you, you would stop being friends with them. If you worked at a place like this, you'd quit the job. But in sports we double down, we triple down, we stay. Doesn't that kind of tell you the psyche of a sports fan in general? That the one thing that abuses you and makes you feel terrible, you, you hang on to more so than anything else in your life, where if anything else was abusing you that way, you'd cut it off and be happy to do it. But in sports, you cling it even tighter. Doesn't that tell you how the subconscious works? How sick it is?
- [33:12]
Jordan Rahnan
But then it would make Me think to a degree at the Jet fan this year would be like, we're going to be so bad. We're going to be the worst team in the league. We're going nowhere. This organization is. Is dead.
- [33:20]
Peter Rosenberg
You know, like, not everybody's like this. Not everybody.
- [33:25]
Jordan Rahnan
Not go to the other complete extreme.
- [33:27]
Peter Rosenberg
Why would a guy.
- [33:27]
Jordan Rahnan
We're going to be good when everyone thinks we're going to stink, but.
- [33:30]
Peter Rosenberg
Because that's the smart thing to do and some people are able to control and do it that way. But explain to me Greenberg, who is a perfectly intelligent person that has gone through everything that he has gone through, would decide that this of all years, is the year that he's going to say they're going to be better than they are. Why? For moments like today, let's go to Evan in Connecticut. You're on espn. New York. You're on. Yeah. You would disagree with me, actually. Go ahead. I just.
- [33:53]
Evan
I just a Don. How you guys doing? You guys are great, by the way.
- [33:56]
Peter Rosenberg
Thank you. You know what?
- [33:59]
Evan
You couldn't be more wrong. That's total nonsense. There's no way Jet we. I mean, I've had season tickets since they left. Shea gone to these games, suffered. Been optimistic more than I've been not optimistic even when it was insane to be so. And I'm telling you that there was optimism there this year. And to say that Jet fans want to lose is ridiculous.
- [34:19]
Peter Rosenberg
But no, you don't. You're missing Evan.
- [34:21]
Jordan Rahnan
He's not saying.
- [34:22]
Peter Rosenberg
I'm not saying you want to lose, but subconsciously you set yourself up for these moments. Why this year of all years would you set expectations high, knowing damn well they're probably going to disappoint you with it. Like your subconscious almost longs for.
- [34:38]
Evan
Why am I. I'm a fan.
- [34:40]
Peter Rosenberg
Because that's what fans do.
- [34:41]
Evan
I want them to do well.
- [34:42]
Peter Rosenberg
Yes, you want them to do well.
- [34:45]
Jordan Rahnan
Could be great.
- [34:45]
Evan
I do. He was great coming out of college. He was great in college. He was a sick one. Number six overall. He was a highly touted guy who needed to learn in the NFL. And no one gets time to learn like a. Like a Baker Mayfield or somebody like that. So many guys need time to learn.
- [35:02]
Peter Rosenberg
They don't. All right. But wouldn't your history. Evan. And again, if you had a button to push, you'd. You push super bowl every single time. Do not get me wrong. I know deep down inside you want them to win. I'm not saying you're rooting for them to lose, but with the history of how this team has disappointed you time and time again. Why would you ever decide to be optimistic? You said you know you're optimistic more than not.
- [35:25]
Jordan Rahnan
Because I've seen it over and over. I covered the Giants. I know when they're going to be bad. You tell when they're bad.
- [35:30]
Peter Rosenberg
Why else would I watch football fans convince themselves? Because fans convince them.
- [35:34]
Jordan Rahnan
Could convince themselves every spring, every summer, look at the team. There's enough good players in the NFL and you can convince yourself that that team is going to be good, Right?
- [35:43]
Peter Rosenberg
And so think about the abuse. It's like punching yourself in the face in order to make yourself feel better. You pump up the expectations to be positive, knowing damn well they're not going to live up those expectations. And the saying going, oh, shucks, you. You go nuts over it. You set it up. Why would you set yourself up to fail? You do it. You just.
- [36:07]
Jordan Rahnan
Because you're trying to convince yourself that good times are ahead.
- [36:10]
Peter Rosenberg
Why?
- [36:11]
Jordan Rahnan
Because you want to see success for your team? Yes.
- [36:14]
Peter Rosenberg
No. No.
- [36:15]
Jordan Rahnan
You want to see success, not because you want pain. They want to see success. They want to see the jets win. So they convince themselves in their head. And Giants fans did this like the.
- [36:24]
Peter Rosenberg
Last eight, 10 years, but at least.
- [36:26]
Jordan Rahnan
They pump up players to be better than they are. Average players become good players, good players become great players because you want to create a scenario, they're good.
- [36:36]
Peter Rosenberg
But. But, but if you're a Giant fan of a certain age, there at least been times where they've come through for you. But when you're a Jet fan and they've never come through for you, it's like, I want. I want to punch my. I want to punch a hole through that wall. I think I can punch that. And that would be great if I could punch the hole 10 times out of 10, I'm going to break my hand, right? But I want to punch the wall. So I'm going to punch it. And would I be surprised if I broke my hand? This team, you're you. You said even in.
- [37:05]
Jordan Rahnan
Every year, you.
- [37:08]
Peter Rosenberg
That more times than not, an incredible percentage is in favor of them disappointing you. So why would you. To make yourself feel better, you claim, pump up the ability for them to win, pump up your optimism. All you're doing is setting yourself up to be even more crippled emotionally. You don't end up making yourself feel better. The better thing to do is sit back, relax, still a fan, still watch every single game, but say, you know what? I don't have any expectations, and they're not going to disappoint me because it's an early. I'm not going to put unfair expectation. No, you. You put unfair expectations. What to make yourself feel better knowing that they're going to fail. That's not making yourself feel better.
- [37:49]
Jordan Rahnan
Come week one, every fan base, no matter how bad you think your team is, when you sit down to watch Week one, you got in the back of your mind, you're creating a scenario where things can go right and things are going to be good. And you have this unrealistic optimism.
- [38:01]
Peter Rosenberg
But then you make it a reality.
- [38:02]
Jordan Rahnan
Think about it. 31 of the 32 teams are pretty Our fan bases are wrong, but that's that that otherwise it's unenjoyable. So they create a scenario.
- [38:11]
Peter Rosenberg
No, it doesn't have to be unenjoyable.
- [38:13]
Jordan Rahnan
It does if you have if you think they're going to stink coming into the season.
- [38:16]
Peter Rosenberg
No. Well, nobody's saying most of the time that the jets haven't put any expectations on themselves. There's been no grandiose predictions. They just cut the quarterback. That might have given him a chance to win. More to think about the future. There is zero reason to put expectations into this year other than to like self destroy yourself. Honestly, that's what you're doing. You're putting yourself in a position to fail on purpose. Almost. It's ridiculous. 1-800-919-3776 argue with me. It'll be fun. Don Hahn and Rosenberg on ESPN New.
- [38:46]
Jordan Rahnan
York.
- [38:48]
Unknown
This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two factor authentication, strong passwords and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it, and they might not be as careful. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed. Or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for 40% off. Terms apply.
- [39:19]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [39:23]
Peter Rosenberg
I didn't listen to anything.
- [39:24]
Don Hahn
You just catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:31]
Peter Rosenberg
Don Leggra Love you, but you're wrong. I'm always optimistic going into a season. I agree they're not winning this year, but all in capital letters. At least you have something to watch. The potential, however slim, that fields would prove to be the answer. I wasn't crushed hearing about injury. Definitely annoying though. Why? Why do you need to put false expectations on a team to watch them. Why can't you watch them? They're your team and let's see what happens. I'm not going to have any expectation. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. This is a team that has failed you nine times out of 10 every year. They've got a history of disappointing you and hurting you. But you love the team like you're supposed to when you stick with the team. And I would never tell you not to. That's what a die hard fan supposed to do.
- [40:18]
Jordan Rahnan
But I agree with him like that, that I want in my head to create a scenario that they're good. So, but, but so I want to create an expertise. You know what, they're gonna be better than everyone.
- [40:28]
Peter Rosenberg
But that's the analogy of there's a, there's a, there's a hole and I can stick my hand in the hole in the hopes that maybe there's a one a million shot, there's a thousand dollar bill.
- [40:37]
Jordan Rahnan
Yeah.
- [40:38]
Peter Rosenberg
But there's also a 99% chance that a rat's gonna bite my finger off.
- [40:42]
Jordan Rahnan
Sure.
- [40:44]
Peter Rosenberg
You don't sit there and go, but yeah, maybe there's $1,000 and you keep putting your hand in there. Why not just not.
- [40:49]
Jordan Rahnan
You want to go for that 1% chance. But these are false expectations that creates the entertainment. Is that the idea that maybe one.
- [40:58]
Peter Rosenberg
Day makes no sense?
- [40:59]
Jordan Rahnan
That maybe one day, no, wait a minute, they're going to come through for you. You're gonna hit the one at a time.
- [41:03]
Peter Rosenberg
But you're supposed to watch. I'm not telling you not to watch. You're supposed to because you love the team. And this is actually a kind of, if you really think about it, a fun time to be a Jet fan where you're seeing something from the ground up that it may be going to be built into something, you know, and maybe it's. You suffer some losses. But you know, hey, maybe we got the right coach, the right quarterback. But you don't want to go into.
- [41:23]
Jordan Rahnan
The game being like, ah, season.
- [41:24]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, we're going to be. I'm not.
- [41:25]
Jordan Rahnan
We're not. We're going to be bad.
- [41:26]
Peter Rosenberg
No, but why are you. Why do you got to go to the extreme? Why do you have to go to the extreme? I'm not telling you that it's going to be bad. I'm not. Why do you have to put unfair positive expectations? Why can't you just go in and say I'm a Jet fan. I'm going to watch because I love my team. And let's see what happens? Why do you have to put artificial expectations on something to make you want to watch? That's all a fantasy. You just made it up. All right, you just said you just create this optimism to give you a reason to watch. So it's all self created. And then when they don't live up to the expectations you falsely put on them, then you get mad. And now you're like, what's the same to yourself?
- [42:06]
Jordan Rahnan
Same thing with the Yankees. I want to believe that they're a World Series contender, and then I want to believe that they're a World Series contender and that they can win it all. And even if I know they're probably not in my head, I sit down and I watch and I'm like, when things go well, you're like, okay. And you convince yourself, well, then that's you, brother. I know. Even though it's illogically, you convince yourself, you know what, Maybe if things go right, maybe if this happens, and then. And then you get, but why would you do that? Then the next night you get a.
- [42:31]
Peter Rosenberg
Why do you need to put false expectations on something? No, brain is a weird, weird thing. And I'm saying the brain is a weird thing. It's almost like you want them to fail. So it gives you no more reason to be mad.
- [42:41]
Jordan Rahnan
I want to create a scenario where I could see them winning, but what does that do?
- [42:45]
Peter Rosenberg
It's not, it's not real, Jordan. You're putting expectations on them. Doesn't make it happen. What ends up making it happen is they don't live up to these false expectations. And then you get disappointed. Why can't you just watch and see what happens? You're putting this fantasy land. And I get it. If it's a scene that unusually.
- [43:05]
Jordan Rahnan
Maybe I'm Greeny, maybe I'm. I'm Greeny.
- [43:07]
Peter Rosenberg
But I'm saying, why would you do that unless somewhere deep inside you want to feel that way? So you put unrealistic expectations and then get mad when they don't live up to it.
- [43:17]
Jordan Rahnan
Creates excitement and enjoyment.
- [43:20]
Peter Rosenberg
How does that do? And I don't get it. No.
- [43:22]
Jordan Rahnan
The journey to getting there at the end, sure, I'm disappointed.
- [43:24]
Peter Rosenberg
But isn't the journey expectations?
- [43:27]
Jordan Rahnan
I want to pretend that there's a 1% chance. Giants fans, Giants fans in 2007 and 2011, a lot of people would have said, oh, why? You know why? Why do you think that? If you're optimistic those years, why do you think those teams can win? And then the 5%, the 2%, actually.
- [43:42]
Peter Rosenberg
Came to that much better.
- [43:45]
Jordan Rahnan
You want to enjoy it.
- [43:46]
Peter Rosenberg
But in life, isn't everything in life enjoying things that exceed expectations? That date with a girl you didn't think was going to work out, end up having a time of your life, the job you thought that was going to be average, that turned out to be the career that you never thought you were going to have. Like, isn't life always about exceeding expectations? Well, instead of creating a reality that doesn't exist and there's no history of existing, why would you. Why does that help you watch. If anything, you're hindering yourself. Lowering expectations actually has the best chance of having you have fun. Because now you could be pleasantly surprised by putting false expectations on something, to me is only creating a negative atmosphere. You're doing the opposite of making it enjoyable.
- [44:33]
Jordan Rahnan
If you lose, if they lose at the end of the day, you're going to be upset either way.
- [44:37]
Peter Rosenberg
Of course.
- [44:38]
Jordan Rahnan
So then what's the difference? Why not? At least.
- [44:41]
Peter Rosenberg
The difference is you're going to be a little bit more annoyed that they didn't live up to the false expectations.
- [44:45]
Jordan Rahnan
Why not? At least. Why not on the journey at least be up.
- [44:48]
Peter Rosenberg
You love the team. Why can't it just be enough? I love the team and I watch the team and then. And listen. The reason 2011 and 20 and 2007 were so amazing as Giant fans is because I didn't go in with a championship expectation. And then when they did win the championship, it was unbelievable. The stress. In 1986, as a Met fan and even as a giant fan in 86, those teams were expected to win. So you went in with. Can I really enjoy every. Because when they lost to Seattle in 86, then when they lost to the Cowboys on opening day, it was devastating because the expectation was this team can build off that loss to the Bears and win a Super Bowl. So you're disappointed when they didn't live up to the expectation and then when they finally exceed the expectation, that's where the real fun comes in. So I don't understand a fan putting unrealistic optimism on something thinking that's going to help the season. I think you're. You're hurting the season. You're shooting yourself in the foot going in.
- [45:44]
Jordan Rahnan
No, but some people don't want to have pessimism. They want to. At least it's not.
- [45:48]
Peter Rosenberg
I'm not asking to be pessimistic.
- [45:49]
Jordan Rahnan
Why, you are?
- [45:50]
Peter Rosenberg
No, you're saying there is no expectations around this team.
- [45:55]
Jordan Rahnan
So that's setting.
- [45:56]
Peter Rosenberg
So go in with the zero. Go in and just say, let's wait and see what happens. It's the beginning of a regime. This guy's never been a head coach before. We just got Justin Fields, who failed in two different places. We're rebuilding a team. I love the Jets. I'm gonna sit there, I'm gonna watch and see what happens instead. I think they can win nine games, I think they can win 10 games, and then they win five and you're devastated. Well, whose fault's that?
- [46:16]
Jordan Rahnan
Everybody sets an expectation.
- [46:18]
Peter Rosenberg
No, people do that because they want to feel the pain of not living up to the expectation. That's what I'm telling you. I want to go around positive, see a positive Jordan in putting unusual positive expectations on a team and just setting themselves up to fail. That's why the jets are doing what they're doing, because they don't want to set up unnecessary expectations. They want this coach to succeed, and they don't want to put unfair expectations on him because they want it to grow.
- [46:46]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [46:50]
Peter Rosenberg
I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.
- [46:52]
Don Hahn
Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.