← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
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- [00:00]
Peter Rosenberg
That's your money saying it's time for a McDonald's run.
- [00:03]
Allen Hahn
Cause with new McValue at McDonald's, you.
- [00:05]
Peter Rosenberg
Get more than you expect. Like buy a six piece McNuggets and add a McChicken for just a dollar. Your money says let's go get more than you expect. With new MCvalue, prices and participation may vary. Valid per item of equal or lesser value.
- [00:16]
Don Hahn
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:20]
Allen Hahn
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:21]
Don Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.
- [00:29]
Allen Hahn
All right, game time brought to you by. Tell the do Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, it's toilet time. Admit it, you regret it when it's back on you. You don't want to do that.
- [00:42]
Jay Williams
Yeah, that one, that one didn't feel good at all. But it's been, it's been 36 hours of a lot of talking and I'm running out of steam.
- [00:50]
Allen Hahn
Don't you. Could you guys have the Don one over there? That's the one. Just keep that.
- [00:52]
Jay Williams
Yeah, just. We just play that.
- [00:54]
Allen Hahn
There you go. Let me do it again. I'm going to do it again right here.
- [00:56]
Jay Williams
Yeah, please do.
- [00:57]
Allen Hahn
Game time is brought to you by Tullamore Do Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, it's. It's. The Mets start A series in St. Louis coverage following a short Dan Grosser program. That's at 7:35 right here on 880 Yankees and the Rays like you dream about at 7:05. Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly.
- [01:34]
Jay Williams
How about Max Freed, who's on the mound tonight. Right. And Aaron Judge, both player and pitcher of the month in the American League for the month of April.
- [01:48]
Allen Hahn
Wait, say that one. Say that one more time.
- [01:50]
Jay Williams
Max Freed.
- [01:51]
Allen Hahn
Yeah.
- [01:51]
Jay Williams
AL Pitcher of the month. Aaron Judge, AL Player of the month for the month of April.
- [01:57]
Allen Hahn
Quite literally how you dream about.
- [01:59]
Jay Williams
I mean, that's, you know, perfection.
- [02:03]
Allen Hahn
Nah, man, there's a lot to be happy about when it comes to the baseball in this town right now. And guess what? At this very moment, a lot to be happy with regard to the basketball as well. Steve in New Jersey has a basketball question for you there, Allen.
- [02:15]
Jay Williams
Okay, Steve.
- [02:18]
Steve
I do, yes. How you doing?
- [02:20]
Jay Williams
Hey, Steve.
- [02:21]
Steve
Good, good. Listen, I want to find out with all the Knicks bench problems, why is Precious Achua, who, if I'm not mistaken, whenever he plays is. Puts up positive numbers. Why is he not even in the discussion? I don't get it.
- [02:42]
Jay Williams
I'd say where. Where do you want him to play?
- [02:46]
Steve
I want him to be getting some minutes where they could go one extra big kind of, you know, I mean, if you want to call him a big. I'd like to see them play a little bigger in place of Deuce. You know, Deuce is killing them. Or where they might be worried that they're going to foul Mitch. You know, I'd like to see precious beginning minutes.
- [03:14]
Jay Williams
I'm curious.
- [03:15]
Steve
He's a positive guy.
- [03:17]
Jay Williams
I got you, Steve. I'm curious to see if. Because how big? Remember, the Pistons aren't very big. The Celtics are. I'm curious to see if because of matchups and series to series that can happen if Precious becomes part of the rotation in this series. So it is definitely something to watch.
- [03:35]
Peter Rosenberg
All right.
- [03:35]
Allen Hahn
With. Without any further ado, friend, a new friend of this program, but friend of myself and Allen, the great Jason Williams. J. Will joins us right now. Jay, what up, man? It's Peter and Allen for the second time on your Friday.
- [03:49]
Peter Rosenberg
I'm doing great, boys. Just, I. I need clarification not to be confused with a guy who shot his chauffeur or white chocolate. I'm the other one. I'm just. Jay. What? You know, me. Just need clarification off the top because.
- [04:01]
Jay Williams
There'S just so many Jason Williams in the world that we do need to make sure we know which one. By the way, the guy that was, you know, national player of the year, national champion.
- [04:10]
Allen Hahn
Oh, no, the guy. No, no, no. This is the guy who ruined my life. This guy. How much time was left in the game, Jay?
- [04:20]
Peter Rosenberg
I mean, it was only 50 seconds, but that was only because I knew I had foresight that seven years later, you will make a song. Just very disappointed in the whole community. So that worked out for us both. You know what I mean?
- [04:32]
Allen Hahn
No. This man was quite the legend at Duke and of course, a legend now doing college basketball and NBA for espn. Allen's been teasing all day some of your thoughts that you had on Jalen Brunson's performance last night and what you could say about him and just how important he is to this Nick franchise. I'll give you the floor, J. Will.
- [04:54]
Peter Rosenberg
Okay, Pete, let me just preface this by saying 2002, 2003, I have this Grizzly veteran on my team who Literally asked me to borrow my Corvette. I didn't get my Corvette back for a month and a half, but that's fine. I don't hold any animosity towards Rick Brunson at all. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. But, like, I used to literally leave practice every day with claw marks all over my ar. And the little kid who was always there, who would always ask, like, the most intriguing questions about why we did things, why we worked, or always on the court when he's six or seven years old, was Jalen Brunson. And I, like, I would always talk to Rick about, you know, this kid knows so much about basketball and just the culture of it. And then watching him at Villanova and just watching the fortitude that he has and the way he plays. Like, there's a lot of times you see players that they have speed or they have a prolific shot. And Alan, we talked a little bit about Luka today and being methodical. Like, there is a pit bull methodical movement to him, which. The angles, the unorthodox style in which he plays. It's one of the most beautiful styles of basketball I've ever seen. And when he came to New York, he chose that city. Okay, I want it. I want it. And I can't tell you how many players I've been around. When you first start talking about New York, you're like, I just. You know, there's so much. You just this anxiety and watching his numbers in the playoffs. Look, and the operative word was Mike, I know there's a lot of incredible New York Knick players, and you have to win championships ultimately to be deemed the greatest. But, like, I think it's fair to say we might be watching the greatest Knick to ever play in a Knicks uniform, just because if he could be surrounded with the right pieces. And by the way, there is somebody visiting, vacationing in New York right now. Is that coincidence? I have no idea. Just the timing of it seems very fascinating to me. The right pieces around a guy like Jalen Brunson, who is a fearless leader. I think that is an opportunity to happen. I think it is possible because that dude, as Raftery says, has the onions for the moment and wants it more than anybody.
- [07:10]
Jay Williams
Now, now, just. Just for all of us who are very naive to these things, you know, I'm a very casual basketball person. I. Yeah, sure you are. Someone visiting the new. Who are you talking about exactly?
- [07:21]
Peter Rosenberg
He's just Guy. You know, there's a lot of different nationalities out there. Albanians, you got, you Know, people from Greece, you got, you know, there's just a lot of people that just come, you know, just kind of see the lay of the land with their families and, you know, nobody, you know, we don't go. People don't go to Cancun, they don't go to Mexico, they don't go to Aruba. Why just not go to New York for vacation, Especially this time of year.
- [07:45]
Jay Williams
Right after your season. That is very interesting.
- [07:47]
Allen Hahn
Like, literally observations.
- [07:49]
Jay Williams
Yeah, very interesting observation. But, Jay, I just, you said it on get up this morning and you like, as you know me for a long time, I'm rarely a loss for words. That one just kind of stunned me by the way you, you worded that because, you know, I grew up in this. So for me, my default goes to three people who all point to, pointed to each other as the greatest Knicks. Willis Reed used to say it was Patrick Ewing, Patrick Ewing used to say it was Willis Reed and Walt. Clyde Frazier would say it was him. So it's always funny. I'm just joking because Clyde, you know, but you could make very, you know, for each guy, you could make an argument because of the moments that they had in the biggest moments. And I think, you know, I, I. Peter, I think I said this last week about Brunson and what he could become. And we were doing this whole. Jay, we did this, a judge versus Jeter thing and how Judge, talent wise, could end up being the, the greatest baseball player the Yankees ever had because of all his skill, what his ability to hit and all the different things. But fans won't accept because Jeter was clutch. Jeter won. And they'll never say that judge was better than Jeter. And I think in this situation, I'm like Jalen Brunson in a short time. And last night's game only made it took. Took it to another level, his clutch ability that he's already proven in playoff basketball for the Knicks. Like, I'm trying to think of other players who have had that kind of clutch, and I can't think of many. Bernard King had some clutch moments. Patrick Ewing was tortured because of so many times that he didn't come up in the clutch versus time he did. So I think, you know, Jalen's in the conversation there, but he's got to obviously get a ring, right? Like, like, like mellow didn't get a ring. And so therefore his time as a Knick is sort of like, yeah, great regular season player, great scorer, but I think for Brunson, you gotta get a ring. Or at very least reach a finals like Patrick did twice.
- [10:04]
Peter Rosenberg
I'm with you on that. I think that makes sense. By the way, still a long career to go. I will combat this with something that I think I have some unique experience with. So, you know, I got. I'm so lucky to be around some incredible people that help provide perspective. So. Isaiah Thomas has always been like a big brother to me. I know that's crazy to say, obviously, Detroit Pistons, but, you know, I love the Magic Johnson. Nobody in their damn right mind, Pete, thought I was going to grow up and be 6, 9, 6, 10. Okay. I was a tiny person. Alan was joking me today. Him and Green were like, how tall are you really? I'm like six one and a half, six three in the program, though. Okay. Like, that's. You guys all know how we do this. But when you start thinking about what I was able to accomplish being a second pick, it's one thing to be a second pick in the draft. It's another thing to be a 62 guard, being the second pick in the draft, right? So when I start asking about what was the size of Carmelo Anthony? Six, eight. What was the size of Walt? Clyde Frazier? Like Patrick Ewing, Willis Reed. Right. Allen, you tower over Jalen Brunson. Pound for pound. To do what he does because he is my height is just. It's a phenomenal. Yeah, it's. It's. Thompson is 6, 6, 67 with a 68 wingspan. I don't think people know how difficult and how skilled you have to be to make that clutch shot in that moment. I hope it translates. A lot of things when you have to win a championship translates to the coach that you have, which is a point of interest that we can continue down that path to see what the ceiling is for this coach. Like, I know a guy named Mark mastrop that started 24 Hour Fitness. It's a great company. The company went to a different level when Carl Liebert replaced him as a CEO because it was just different. So we'll see what the pinnacle is that he could reach. But I'm just saying, if he has the right pieces around him. Come on, the dude has it. We all can see it now. Whether it translates to championships, that will ultimately be determined with personnel and coaching and gm.
- [12:11]
Jay Williams
Jay, can I. Let's. Let's go over the shot in the moment last night. Because as again, when I had you and I had Tim Legler, it was perfect to ask you guys, like, like I did with Wally Zerbiak last night on the MSG postgame guys that were scorer shooters who understood those kind of moments. Just take us through. Like you as a former player, as a guy who was, you know, a high level player, one of the, I mean, the best player in the country. When you played at Duke. When you watch that moment and that move and the shot and it's on the road, I call it the silencer. Just tell people how significant of a moment that is for a player.
- [12:58]
Peter Rosenberg
Can I, Can I take you through frame by frame? Alan, would you mind?
- [13:02]
Jay Williams
Yeah, go.
- [13:02]
Peter Rosenberg
Because that's how my, that's how my brain thinks, right? Because I, I see the play and I remember multiple plays throughout the course of the game. Number one, ball, pressure up top, balls in the left hand, balls kind of like caveat towards half court because he's pressing up on one side, which I think is fine. Number two, that go screen. Just that split moment where you're tapping hands is enough to throw off Thompson's timing. The one, the crazy thing that as a guard in that moment, as you are driving towards your strong hand, you are watching Dennis Schroeder. Are you coming to blitz me? Are you staying home? Even if you're staying home, that's a strong side. The ability to stick that foot in the ground when you recognize it. No, people call him Big Body Brunson. The reason why he has that nickname is he's one of the best. And he sets you up through the course of the game. Whether you want to call a flopping acting, tying you up. He puts you in a position for the refs to make a call. So Thompson, in his right frame of mind, should have been sending him towards the strong side help, but he doesn't. And when he sees that he tries to jump that he dips that shoulder slightly and the ability to stop on the dime, that low center of gravity, to then change angles and come back towards the middle is to catch himself on balance like so many of the greatest players. That's what you loved about Zubots last night, right? Jokic is so good at dislodging people, people off their spots. He is the yokage of guards because he can dislodge you off your spot using his shoulders and using changing of angles. It's not like blow by speed. It's just the angle change so swiftly, so quickly with a tight gripped handle that it's enough to change angles, to raise up. It was as a guard, as a smaller guard, the body control, the raise from top to bottom, staying on balance. It was one of the most Beautiful things I've seen and I know people at home like, oh, Jordan shot was great. That's all. Jordan shot was beautiful too. But like watching this as somebody who is six one and a half, six two, it is so hard to change angles and even on a closeout, like to take that shot with that confidence in that moment. There is no better feeling than making a shot on the road to silence one of the craziest crowds we have in the NBA. And that honestly, that's what Detroit has felt like this year. When you call a game there, it's a crazy environment.
- [15:36]
Allen Hahn
You know what you mentioned the big, the big Body Brunson. Was there any better play to exemplify the big brought body Brunson than after the three point play he cut it to four and then he gets underneath the basket and does that. I can only describe it and I know you'll know the reference. J will. I can only describe it as some JCC old man style basketball, just using his butt and just pushing his way in to get a deuce. Man, he's so crafty.
- [16:11]
Peter Rosenberg
I, I, I'll also say this, like first off, I, I am like shocked that JB Bickerstaff did not throw a double team at him. Like if anything, I'm coming, I'm coming right off. Deuce McBride, if there's anybody who's not going to beat me, is not going to be Jalen Brunson. And then also I give him credit because he got the challenge right. But the jump ball went back to the Knicks and they scored in that possession. But the fact that it was like, it felt like six and a half minutes that the Knicks were just playing and they were dead tired. And that challenge that he had, there were two challenges. The second challenge got denied. The first challenge actually was proven correctly for the jump ball where Cat got the wind knocked out of him off the jump ball. But still it allowed out, it allowed the Knicks to rest for like five minutes. That, that was a huge point of the game when you're sucking wind down the stretch and then you have a challenge that's called by the opposing team and you have a chance to catch your breath. Especially with the way that Detroit was defending and creating points off turnovers. And it felt like the Knicks were just sloppy with the ball. That was one of those little moments where they could, yeah, they got the.
- [17:16]
Jay Williams
Breath and they just got, they, they, they had lost the lead, five minutes to go and they, they did that challenge. That was the, the hardaway foul on Brunson. And they had to have the jump ball after that because they, they, they took the foul away from Hardaway and they had a jump ball and Towns won it and Josh Hart scored and now we're tied again. So. And you're right. And that was that even though in, in, in, in game time, it was one second, it was 14 seconds in real time. You're right, that, that was a, a two or three minute, almost like a free timeout to just catch their breath.
- [17:56]
Peter Rosenberg
I gotta tell you guys too, like I, it's, you know, just Mikhail Bridges. I don't know how you guys think about it, but he does so many of the tiny details that people just don't pay attention to. I know you're gonna see the left handed flush and the tip back, but man, like defensively he's just active. He's just like always in the right position. It's actually pretty special to watch.
- [18:17]
Jay Williams
He was pretty, he was more locked in than I've seen him. Like he looked, he had a competitive fire about him that you didn't see enough of during the year. And it almost tells you. And again, stuff you can speak to that because it was a closeout game, because it was under pressure, because it was in a crucible of a road arena. It just seemed like he's a guy that in that moment he flips the switch. Because we saw it in Portland. He hits this game winner in Portland. That was just an epic shot. And when you watched him catch the ball, make the move, shoot the ball, all of it, he just had this look of determination. There's just certain guys that just can turn it on in a moment. And it looked like he did last night as well. Jay so now they move on to a series against the Celtics. And you know, I know how you feel about it. You know, Nick, fans will say, well, this is what this roster was built for. You're supposed to beat the Celtics or you're supposed to challenge the Celtics because you traded for Crown City Towns for this. This is why they made these trades for this series. They believe this team was built to match up with what the Celtics have. And on paper, the belief is ours should be as good as yours and we should be able to go toe to toe with the defending champs. Tell me why, despite what we saw, of course, what we saw during the regular season suggests that's not true. But they weren't always whole against them during the regular season. What chance do you give the Knicks to make this a series and maybe even have a huge upset to knock off the defending champs.
- [19:54]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, first off, Alan, not all names written down on the same page are created equal. You know, it's, I, I, I hear the thought process behind OG and Mikel, Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown are exponentially better than both those players. That's the reality and the thing that is concerning about the Knicks and why I firmly believe if they get it to six, that that's, that will be an incredible thing. Like, I actually think it's going to be a gentleman sweep. I think the Knicks can probably sneak in a game if they play at a high level. But I, I think there are two things. Number one, first off, Boston is there five man defensive rotation that makes them special. Like, and I'm still waiting to see the best version of this Knicks team defensively. And also like what I said today. And Pete, I'm not sure if it was with you on first take or not, but look, Carl Anthony Towns, I often joke with him. You know, I say that he's the second best player to come out of St. Joseph's High School. Matuch, New Jersey. Because we both went to the same high school.
- [20:59]
Jay Williams
That's right.
- [21:00]
Peter Rosenberg
And I love Cat. Cat's my boy and he's number one. Right. I'm definitely number two at the career he's had, but it's Andrew Bynum on line three. But we'll talk about that another day.
- [21:10]
Allen Hahn
Wow.
- [21:11]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, it's a pretty good high school for a second. It's a good school for a sec. And I didn't get paid as much as I should have. Did I say that out loud? But what I was gonna say is how he, how he guards the perimeter. Like, you know, we talk about Luca getting targeted. We're about to see Cat get targeted a ton.
- [21:30]
Jay Williams
Yeah.
- [21:30]
Peter Rosenberg
And I wonder how defensively he's going to step up and, and play the likes when they get him involved in picking roles and those rotations. Like the sense of urgency he's gonna have to have with the likes of Al Horford and Porzingis who provide floor spacing. Offensively, man, they're just all their pieces fit and it's. And defensively too, like how Brunson is able to handle the likes of Drew Holiday. You know, we'll see about the injury to Drew and how that nagging injury plays into it, but you know that this has not been one of his most favorable matchups. Derrick White, probably a little bit better, but still, you're talking about two incredible wing defenders who have size and length that can make life difficult for Jalen. So I, you know, I think great years.
- [22:14]
Jay Williams
You're saying a win is to lose in six. That's what you're saying. That's the best they can win.
- [22:19]
Peter Rosenberg
I mean, I think that you said that as well today. I don't think I'm the only one saying that.
- [22:24]
Jay Williams
I cannot. Do you agree or deny? I. I have no this morning.
- [22:27]
Peter Rosenberg
Oh, don't you start backpedaling right now, Alan. Don't you start doing that.
- [22:31]
Jay Williams
Pete.
- [22:32]
Peter Rosenberg
Talk to him.
- [22:33]
Jay Williams
Pete.
- [22:34]
Allen Hahn
Listen, Alan's his own man. I gotta. I gotta watch him squirm if that's what he's gonna do.
- [22:38]
Jay Williams
I'll be honest on Monday. I'll be honest on Monday.
- [22:40]
Allen Hahn
Get those hamster work on those hamstrings this weekend. Now before. Before we let you go here J Will and get you enjoy a weekend. Talk to me.
- [22:52]
Peter Rosenberg
Why.
- [22:52]
Allen Hahn
Why does jj. Why does your. Your boy.
- [22:55]
Peter Rosenberg
He can't help himself.
- [22:56]
Allen Hahn
Why does your partner from Duke slow down your pnc?
- [23:02]
Peter Rosenberg
Same school. Doesn't mean he's my partner. Hold on.
- [23:06]
Allen Hahn
Your teammate? Your old teammate?
- [23:08]
Peter Rosenberg
No, he's never been my teammate.
- [23:09]
Allen Hahn
You guys missed each other right after you.
- [23:11]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, he came in after I left. I think he's gonna be something. He's gonna become the all time leading scorer Duke, if I'm still there. Hell no. That's accurate. I would have been a senior. He was a freshman.
- [23:21]
Allen Hahn
Now, by the way, we. I just want to clarify before I ask this question. Jay. Jay and I did recount my, my. This is why Duke sucks song from 20 years ago. And Alan, we realized I must have had some fondness for Jay because relative to the names everybody got called, he really got away with almost nothing. Like he. I only called him a baby. Which for a Maryland fan, to a Duke player at that time was. I mean, that's like a compliment.
- [23:49]
Peter Rosenberg
That's a huge compliment.
- [23:51]
Allen Hahn
Yeah.
- [23:51]
Peter Rosenberg
I mean, you were considering the miracle minute and the final four in the same year.
- [23:54]
Jay Williams
Oh, wow.
- [23:56]
Allen Hahn
Were you there? Did you and Boozer. You and Boozer overlapped, right?
- [24:01]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. You guys hit boozers. Mom.
- [24:06]
Allen Hahn
I was about to say, considering you.
- [24:09]
Peter Rosenberg
Were there for when I had a concussion.
- [24:11]
Allen Hahn
Oh, my God. I apologize that the turf fans were wild back then, but in all seriousness, like, I just felt like this week after what ultimately, you know, it was a great year for jj Like I could talk all the trash I want. To me, he proved that he belongs in this league as a head coach. Um, but at the same time, the closeout was not great. He. He did seem a little bit out of his skis in that series. And so I thought the combination of sort of going off on the one dude in the media and then kind of throwing some, a little bit of guilt at the feet or pressure at the feet of his new star, Luka Doncic, I thought it was a little bit weak on the way out. I was not super impressed. What do you think about JJ's last week of the his rookie season as a head coach?
- [24:56]
Peter Rosenberg
It's the same thing that I've always thought about JJ is that I think as a, as a talent, he maximized his abilities at the NBA level. He did that by being in the best shape and by really understanding his craft. Like the level of detail that JJ and I would have conversation about isn't really for people that are just casual fans. And that happens sometimes. Right where you were certain. Like when I talked to Kyrie, the level of detail, I don't know if you guys saw what he posted online. Just him and Phil Handy talking about the footwork of Edwards and how they work at specializing and specialization of crafting and all that. So like that his IQ is there, but JJ has this built in confidence and arrogance that has allowed them to out kick his coverage of achievement. And that same kind of confidence is what allowed a guy with no head coaching experience to become the head coach of the most famous franchise in the world. Think about that.
- [26:06]
Jay Williams
Yeah.
- [26:08]
Peter Rosenberg
Now, so I mean, look, certain players had arrogance, had confidence. It's what allowed them to be great in those great moments. That doesn't always translate to what comes out of his mouth. And I think at times that competitive. But the reason why we like certain coaches is the tactfulness to understand the moment. And I still think that is a major growth opportunity for jj. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. And in the media you can undress people when you're going against Mad Dog and Stephen A. Smith. And we do it all the time like, well, let me combat these traditional narratives. But when you're the head coach of the most famous franchise in the world, you have to pick your spots and you have to know like there's a pill of humbleness that you need to swallow and say, you know what I heard exactly. Because it triggered me the first part of the question. Pete was fine when he started going into like, well, why aren't you checking in with your assistant coaches? It almost became insulting. So like my brain went there, but.
- [27:08]
Allen Hahn
It was a little insulting.
- [27:09]
Peter Rosenberg
It was insulting, right? It's like, well, I don't check with my assistant coaches. Every time out. But it's one thing to know that you can do that. It's another thing to actually do it. So that's where you need to just swallow the pride and be like, you know what? There's still so much for me to learn. I'm learning. But, yeah, I trust and believe in my assistant coaches. And yes. Or you know what? I don't think that question was pertinent. Of course, I talk to my coaches every single possession. Next question. Like. But that's the arrogance of JJ that got him to come. The head coach of the Lakers.
- [27:37]
Allen Hahn
You know, that's a. That's a great explanation. Jay, you were tremendous today. If you weren't so busy in such a superstar, we'd be trying to get you on all the time, my guy. Because you're great.
- [27:47]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, I mean, if it's you, just call me. I'm available. You guys are my boys. I mean, this is.
- [27:54]
Allen Hahn
This is. We're going to remember. This is going to be in stone now. We're going to. We're going to come back to you in a week or two.
- [27:59]
Peter Rosenberg
I'm here, man. You let me know. Well, come back to me when the Knicks win the series.
- [28:03]
Allen Hahn
Well, then we won't talk to you this year.
- [28:05]
Peter Rosenberg
You said that. I didn't. Look, you said that. I did not.
- [28:09]
Jay Williams
This was such a great call, Jay. And then you had to do that. What?
- [28:15]
Peter Rosenberg
I just.
- [28:15]
Izzy
I'm being positive.
- [28:16]
Peter Rosenberg
And by the way, why. Why wouldn't I say. Why would I say Jalen Brunson has a chance to be the greatest New York Knick ever? All New York Knick fans get angry at me.
- [28:24]
Jay Williams
Yeah.
- [28:24]
Peter Rosenberg
If he becomes a New York. The best New York Nick ever. You're welcome. That means you're winning championships. You should be rooting for that, not hating against it.
- [28:33]
Jay Williams
It's the way you said it.
- [28:37]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, you know, I'm a Duke guy. Me and my partner, you know, we say things.
- [28:40]
Allen Hahn
Oh, yeah, that's right. You're.
- [28:42]
Peter Rosenberg
Thanks, Pete.
- [28:44]
Allen Hahn
By the way, isn't it so funny that as time passes like you guys were clearly separated, I have distinct memories from each team, but, like, the pain of Duke, of those years, just melded into one sure awful experience, one trauma for me that I made one thing.
- [29:01]
Peter Rosenberg
The freeze frame that you had of me when you called me a baby. I gotta be honest, I kind of look like a little pissy. Poor baby in that moment. It wasn't. It wasn't a good look for me. So you might have been on to something. Just saying thank you.
- [29:13]
Allen Hahn
Thank you. We appreciate you, Jay.
- [29:16]
Peter Rosenberg
Okay.
- [29:17]
Allen Hahn
He brought it. He brought it.
- [29:20]
Jay Williams
He always does.
- [29:21]
Allen Hahn
He's very, very good.
- [29:22]
Anthony
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- [30:42]
Kaley Cuoco
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- [31:07]
Allen Hahn
Go to your happy price.
- [31:09]
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- [31:40]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [31:44]
Allen Hahn
I didn't listen to anything you just.
- [31:45]
Don Hahn
Said catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [31:54]
Jay Williams
Is this how I think it is?
- [31:56]
Allen Hahn
Turns into memories? If it's. If you mean Eric Church.
- [32:01]
Jay Williams
Is it Eric Church Saturday night?
- [32:03]
Allen Hahn
Yeah, it is beautiful. Hold on, let me hit the cor. Hold on up.
- [32:06]
Jay Williams
Oh, Springsteen.
- [32:12]
Allen Hahn
Springsteen. A full on bop. A certified bop from Eric Church now, I'll tell you that much right now. Where's my Eric Church information?
- [32:22]
Jay Williams
Well, you know, he's coming to the Barclays center.
- [32:24]
Allen Hahn
Oh, yeah?
- [32:25]
Jay Williams
Yeah. September 20th. It's a Saturday. And the ESPN New York, that's us. We have your chance to score tickets on the ESPN New York app that you probably already have on your phone anyway. And espny, if you want to go on the interwebs, just find the contest tile and you submit your entry. It's that easy. Pre sale is beginning Tuesday, May 6th at 10am but you can register at ericchurch.com before the general on sale happening on Friday, May 9th at ticketmaster.com so there you go.
- [33:01]
Allen Hahn
Feels like a melody.
- [33:03]
Jay Williams
I'm really feeling the boots thing for you. Did we. A result of the poll, by the way, of boots.
- [33:07]
Allen Hahn
Cowboy.
- [33:07]
Jay Williams
We never got cowboy boots or neither. What do we got, Anthony?
- [33:11]
J
Well, there's one thing that's for sure.
- [33:13]
Jay Williams
Yeah.
- [33:13]
J
People either wanted to go all in or not at all. Those were the two top ones. I now have to go back and see what the winner was. I believe it was neither, but I have to.
- [33:25]
Jay Williams
Oh, come on.
- [33:26]
Allen Hahn
Neither. People went neither.
- [33:27]
J
No, I'm sorry. I take it back. Both 45%.
- [33:30]
Jay Williams
Yeah.
- [33:31]
J
Cowboy hat and boots.
- [33:32]
Jay Williams
Do it now. Oh, yeah. You have to do.
- [33:34]
Allen Hahn
I can't do it.
- [33:35]
J
I'm speaking for Don because. Because he's not here and you know he'll disown you.
- [33:42]
Allen Hahn
He'd be so sick and by me. I'm gonna take this under advisement. Next week, I'm going to the Kendrick concert. I'm not dressing up for that.
- [33:55]
Jay Williams
Okay.
- [33:56]
Allen Hahn
I'm not wearing like, dickies and like, you know, vans or some sort of west coast hip hop outfit.
- [34:01]
Jay Williams
Sure.
- [34:01]
Allen Hahn
Keep it normal. I did get a band sent to me that I got to check out here and send to the group chat.
- [34:08]
Jay Williams
Oh, for our battle of the bands.
- [34:10]
Allen Hahn
Yeah.
- [34:11]
Jay Williams
Love it.
- [34:12]
Allen Hahn
I'm gonna send this over to you guys right now so we can take a look, see as we get ready for the beach bash a couple of months from now.
- [34:19]
Jay Williams
Oh, no.
- [34:20]
Allen Hahn
A month wait. Yeah. Two months from now.
- [34:22]
Jay Williams
Two months. Yeah. We're still. We're Still a little bit out. Well, a little. Little less than 2 at this point.
- [34:27]
Allen Hahn
A little less than 2.
- [34:28]
Jay Williams
Little less than 2.
- [34:30]
Allen Hahn
Real quick. Also, no one asked for it, but I'm curious. Today it's Sunny, high of 83. That's pretty good. 81 right now they're saying. How about that?
- [34:40]
Jay Williams
Yeah.
- [34:41]
Allen Hahn
Tomorrow, high of 81, low of 62 with rain possible. Of course, we got rain possible the next several days, including a very rainy.
- [34:51]
Jay Williams
Monday and Tuesday, naturally. So we just really. Baseball or what? Like, are we. Are we going to have this again where the Yankees are home and that's a 105 vehicle, I believe.
- [35:06]
Allen Hahn
We just really can't have anything nice for more than a day. That's. That's my issue. Yeah, we can't have more.
- [35:16]
Jay Williams
Well, this was a nice. Woody. Talking about the weather this week was great.
- [35:19]
Allen Hahn
Yeah, we got. We got. We got like two and a half, three days. Three days, yeah.
- [35:23]
Jay Williams
How many. Well, again, you. You missed out on some of the. We had the wonderful meetings on the roof of our new studio.
- [35:29]
J
Tremendous today, by the way.
- [35:30]
Jay Williams
Yeah. Was it good on the. On the roof today?
- [35:34]
Allen Hahn
And I never got to even experience it because I'm a bad guy. All right, let's take a call here. Let's go to. Trying to see who's been holding. Oh, yeah, spike. Spike at St. Pete's been holding for a minute. Our guy Spike is here. What's up, Spike? What do you got today?
- [35:47]
Jay Williams
Hey, Spike.
- [35:47]
Izzy
I got a lot today. Jay Williams played with Shane Battier or Duke, didn't he?
- [35:52]
Jay Williams
I believe so.
- [35:53]
Allen Hahn
All again, all the same. All the same. Horrible time for me. I think that's right. Yeah.
- [35:58]
Izzy
No, I understand you're a terrapin, but those were fundamentally very sound players that unfortunately, what happened to Jay was really unfortunate and he had a following, you know, Bobby Hurley. So, yeah, I wasn't a big doogie. I wasn't. But they had some great players. Here's what I took out of the game last night. I immediately went to work as an advanced scout for the Knicks and I reviewed every one of the Orlando games. Now, Boston and the Knicks shoot just about the same percentage of threes if you look it up by 37%.
- [36:34]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [36:34]
Steve
Right there.
- [36:35]
Izzy
The difference is Boston takes about 15 more a game. They don't turn the ball over a lot and they get them off quicker. So the trick to what Orlando was doing is they were sending in the big guns there. The Wagner guy and Wendell Carter. Wendell Carter's out. His name. Wendell Carter. They were sending the big Guys in to cut off the court, the corner three. And if you look, I think they averaged about 35 or 36 threes. Again, well below their average. And. But they wore down, Alan. They wore down in the second half. Orlando was pretty effective against them, and that's another team to watch because they got snake bitten. But last night's game was just fantastic to watch the ending of it. And I saw Tony Brothers, you know, I know you're gonna have 50 or 60 free throw attempts and the game really took forever, but we got the win. And I still, I watched that one of you guys mentioned because I was exercising while you were talking, and I can't believe how many moves he made without moving his pivot foot. I mean, it was just fantastic. And how he gets, how he gets the concentration, because that's all that is. And his angles and he's a fantastic player. And I'll tell you last thing, maybe you could help me through this, Alan. Josh Hart fell on his wrist so hard. Did he have it taped up tight or what do they do for that?
- [38:04]
Jay Williams
I think you probably just get treatment on it. He had some imaging done. He didn't want to talk about it. You know, it's probably just get a lot of ice stem, whatever it is that they do to just get it ready and you know, and you just. And then you have to grit and bear it too. You know, if there's no structural damage, it's all a matter of just managing pain. And you know, the way he was rebounding the ball early in that game and the way he was throwing his body around, he had another hard fall, but he still had 10 rebounds. Like he still. For a guy, he can do, he, he.
- [38:33]
Izzy
He was constructed in a laboratory specifically to have Tom Thibodeau as his coach. So anyway, great shows, boys. The Knicks were take at least one game from the Celtics, maybe two.
- [38:44]
Jay Williams
Okay, that's a, that's one thing to keep in mind. You know, listen, I didn't get one, but I agree with Spike, though. And again, thanks for the call, Spike. I agree with what he said. You have to watch what Orlando did and try to do the same. And look at Orlando as a young team that couldn't finish. They couldn't close games. That's what their biggest problem was. They were right there in game four, about to make it two, two and send it back to Boston. Two, two and just could not make a shot. Their offense fell completely apart. And the looks that they had just. They couldn't make them. And that's what young players do in the. In the playoffs. So if the Knicks can do the same and just get down to those last five minutes, and then they have one of the best shot makers on their side, you know, you hope you have a chance. That's all.
- [39:31]
Allen Hahn
Just seeing some pictures, by the way, of this fight card from Times Square.
- [39:35]
Jay Williams
Now, where is this in Times Square? Because I'd love to see the same. I'm curious about this.
- [39:39]
Allen Hahn
Hold on. I'm gonna send you a DM on. I'm sending you a Twitter DM right now. I just.
- [39:44]
Jay Williams
Let me check.
- [39:44]
Allen Hahn
Picture that Ariel Helwani posted. I wanted to try to go tonight, but I wasn't able to make it.
- [39:49]
Jay Williams
How are they doing? They literally. Times Square.
- [39:52]
Allen Hahn
They built it in the middle of Times Square. Like one of my media friends, Andreas Hale, who works with us at ESPN Main Boxing and MMA Writer, he's stationed in one of their green rooms. The media area is the green room for Good Morning America. They basically utilized a bunch of different spaces for media right around it. But I'm talking about, like, one of the seating areas for media is at Bubba Gump. Like, they literally took over Times Square.
- [40:24]
Jay Williams
And I think this actually looks like. Visually, this is really something.
- [40:29]
Allen Hahn
I know.
- [40:30]
Jay Williams
Wow.
- [40:31]
Allen Hahn
Now, listen, it wasn't a real public event. They're having 300 people there in person.
- [40:37]
Jay Williams
Yeah. This doesn't look like you're gonna get like a big crowd other than doing.
- [40:41]
Allen Hahn
They could. They could only do invite only.
- [40:42]
Jay Williams
Yeah. You'd have to control it.
- [40:44]
Allen Hahn
But it's on tv, on the zone. And yeah, the lineup of fight. It's three incredible fighters that have fights tonight. And again, like I said, a big Canelo fight tomorrow. But I was hoping to make it the thing look so cool.
- [41:00]
Kaley Cuoco
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- [41:30]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [41:34]
Allen Hahn
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [41:35]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [41:43]
Allen Hahn
This is another good vibe for the day, you know, get that energy right. Knicks fans. You already did the unthinkable last night. It looked like the game was slipping away. And then Big Body Brunson broke a man's ankles, watched him fall into a hole six feet deep and buried a 25 footer. No reason to not believe. Why not? You never know, man. You never ever know. And I just, as a Celtics fan, I certainly am a little weirded out that like nobody is giving this Knicks team a chance. I just like you never know when a team starts to gel Allen, and they really haven't even gotten there yet. Like, yeah, let's be real, they won that series without ever being fully. Right.
- [42:33]
Jay Williams
Yeah, I, for me, like I said, I'm curious if there's some type of a residual effect of this series in that odd way. Again, you're always trying to find different reasons, right? So I'm doing, I'm in that search right now. And one of them is, you know, did the Pistons in the way they played, that physical grinding, clutch and grab, trash talking in your face style, did that galvanize the Knicks? Maybe a little bit. You know, is there something about the series that got them ready? Like, let's say they had played the Bucks like everybody thought would be the easier route and they just, you know, smoked the Bucks like the Pacers to just walk right through them. I don't know if they, you know, they might have a false sense of security, but because you had to grind against this young team that was just wouldn't let go and just constantly punching back and you had to fight for every inch just to finish them off. I don't know. Did that, does that kind of put them in the right mental toughness, mind frame that they're going to need to go up to Boston and take on the defending champs, A team that has owned you and dominated you, like, is that where they needed to get? Those are things I'm curious to see because you're right. And by the way, I want to ask nick fans this too. 800 now we 93776. Is this now the house money portion of the playoffs for you? Getting out of the playoffs? Because it is the Celtics, not the defending champs.
- [44:03]
Allen Hahn
But it can't.
- [44:03]
Jay Williams
Are you at that point now where it's like, look, there's no pressure on us. We're not supposed to beat them anyway, I'm telling you. Do you have or the anxiety still there?
- [44:11]
Allen Hahn
Allen, you're not. I don't want to get into this argument because I already know you're not going to like it.
- [44:15]
Jay Williams
Go.
- [44:16]
Allen Hahn
If they get swept it's still going to be a very.
- [44:21]
Jay Williams
Not what I said. No, I did not.
- [44:23]
Allen Hahn
But that's my point is it's not house money.
- [44:25]
Jay Williams
Yeah. No.
- [44:26]
Allen Hahn
What if it was house money? You could get swept. They have to win more games.
- [44:30]
Jay Williams
All right, all right.
- [44:31]
Allen Hahn
But I mean, they have no.
- [44:33]
Jay Williams
I get it. I didn't articulate it their best way. I'm just. I want to take the temperature because there was so much angst about we got to get out of the first round. You got to get out of the first round. Well, they survived. They got out of the first round. Maybe it took one game longer than it should have, but they did. And so I just. I don't know, like, because you're right, no one is picking them. No one believes they can beat the Celtics. They. They couldn't come near them in the regular season. So there is this underdog mentality, the sense of we're not supposed to win anyway. So assuming you're going to get one, because you're right, a sweep is still a sweep. And that's. That's. That's. There's something about that that's indignant. Like, you get. Getting swept is. Yeah, that's ugly. But if you're knocked out in five or six, like, that's what I mean. Is there a bit of a. Pressures off because you're not supposed to win anyway. Feeling from Nick fans about this.
- [45:30]
Allen Hahn
Let's. Let's take one call before we get to enn.
- [45:34]
Jay Williams
Oh, we got enn. That's right.
- [45:36]
Allen Hahn
That's right. You're darn right we do. Izzy in Dallas. What's up, Izzy?
- [45:41]
Peter Rosenberg
Hey, guys. How you doing? What's up, Biz Pete, first of all, I'm a native New Yorker and I live out here in. In cowboy country. And I could tell you that the hat is sharp. Don't deny the hat. It's not a bad gig.
- [45:56]
Jay Williams
I think you look good in it. Pete, I'm telling you, if you put the sunglasses on with the bald head.
- [46:04]
Peter Rosenberg
You got a perfect round head for.
- [46:06]
Steve
It's perfect.
- [46:07]
Allen Hahn
I'm telling you. I can't. I'm very. Unless you're a legitimate, real authentic person. Like, or. By the way, this rule does not apply to women. Women can be cute, like going to their bachelorette party in Nashville and wear their cowboy hats.
- [46:21]
Peter Rosenberg
They're.
- [46:21]
Allen Hahn
They're fun guys. I hate guys just wearing the cowboy hat.
- [46:27]
Jay Williams
Like Stephen A. Wears it all the time.
- [46:29]
Allen Hahn
Well, that's because he's trolling cowboy fans that I respect. Anyway, Izzy, what do you Got so.
- [46:36]
Peter Rosenberg
All right, well, that's one thing, Alan, as a historian of the game and of Knicks and the lover of list as I am, where do you rank last night's shot in Nick history?
- [46:47]
Jay Williams
Oh, I love it. Okay, you set me up. Busy. That's perfect. So here's my list of the iconic shots in Nick playoff history. I think the first one, very, very top of the list has to be Willis Reed's first shot. Game 7, 1970, when no one thought he was going to play, let alone come out on the court and drag his leg out there. But he makes that first shot, the garden roof exploded. Everybody that was there has told me he made that one shot. And everybody in the building is like, oh, we're not losing this game. He only made one other shot after that, right? He did. He had no real impact. He still played 20 minutes, but that one shot just did. So it is an iconic shot. So that has to be number one. That makes number two to me. The Ewing put back against the Pacers in 94. The put back dunk that finally, finally got them to the finals. He jumped up on the scorer's table, put the arms out. It was. That's such an iconic moment for Ewing and for the franchise. The one I would put after that at at 3 would be Alan Houston and the running jumper against the heat in 99, the eighth seed upsetting their number one seed. What a moment that was for that group. And they moved on. And then again they get to the finals. That's a great shot. This is where now that's. I don't think you can replace those three. I think four is where you could put one of two shots. You could put Brunson shot here or you could put Larry Johnson's four point play. Game three, it is a conference final, but it was game three. So it wasn't like a clincher. But it did seem to turn the series and turn a game that might have been a home loss into a win. That's such a big shot. And again, knowing what it led to is why you put that with Brunson and, you know, we'll see where this series goes. The other two shots that aren't on the list that I'm throwing out, there is one, the Starks dunk, it's so iconic. Even though again, they ended up losing that series and the Ewing turnaround three in Boston, game five in 1990, that, that was such an epic turnaround three and them winning on the Garden on the Boston Garden court to close out a series against Larry Bird and company a huge shot.
- [49:02]
Peter Rosenberg
Were they down?
- [49:04]
Steve
They were down huge in that series, too, right?
- [49:06]
Jay Williams
Well, they, they were down two zero. They were they were down two. They had to win the last three and they did. And they got the best. They gave up 155 points in one of those games. They look like they didn't belong on the floor with the Celtics and came back to win it. And that shot in game five was a huge, huge one.
- [49:21]
Allen Hahn
Thank you, Izzy. Appreciate it.
- [49:22]
Jay Williams
That's great stuff, man. Thanks.
- [49:23]
Allen Hahn
Good stuff, man.
- [49:25]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [49:29]
Jay Williams
I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.
- [49:31]
Don Hahn
Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.