Hour 3: John Starks & Pat O'Keefe

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg — Hour 3: John Starks & Pat O'Keefe

Date: October 22, 2025
Podcast: ESPN New York | Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg

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Overview

This episode, recorded live from Stout NYC ahead of the Knicks’ season opener, features spirited pregame discussion and insightful interviews with Knicks legend John Starks and play-by-play broadcaster Pat O’Keefe. The hosts break down the anticipation surrounding this Knicks season, debates over load management and roster changes, the shifting NBA landscape, and the ever-present speculation around possible major trades—especially the looming Giannis Antetokounmpo storyline. With anecdotes, inside perspective, and fan calls, the show delivers a lively, authentic slice of New York basketball culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Night Anticipation & The State of the Knicks

[00:43–04:57]

• Hosts’ Excitement for Season Opener: The show sets the scene with palpable excitement at Stout NYC, describing the increased energy and the unique buzz around the Knicks to start this highly anticipated season.
• Roster and Matchup Analysis: Alan Hahn highlights the Knicks’ strengthened wings (Mikal Bridges, OG Anunoby), the impact of Jalen Brunson, and the resulting increased expectations, even with health questions about Karl-Anthony Towns. Both teams face injuries—Cavaliers are missing key players, but still have Donovan Mitchell and others.
• Underdog versus Spotlight Narrative:
  • Rosenberg points out, “The rest of the NBA took notice… something's buzzing here. Everybody's picking [the Knicks] to come out of the East. So all these Eastern teams… circle on the Knicks and go, let's prove to the world that the Knicks aren't gonna have it just a dance to the final.” (03:25)
• Madison Square Garden Factor: Discussion on how teams bring added intensity to MSG, treating it as a stage for statement wins, not just for the Knicks, but for opponents, too.

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2. Eastern Conference Competitiveness & Load Management

[05:08–08:54]

• Motivations of Contending Teams: The hosts discuss how franchises like the Celtics and Pacers are embracing a “no respect” mentality, seeking to be spoilers amid New York’s resurgence.
  • Peter: “The Celtics… minus Tatum, that's minus a classic superstar. He doesn't get enough credit… but he is 25 or 30 points every single night.” (06:52)
• Player Rest Strategies: They address the evolving NBA trend of star “comeback” teases, likening Jayson Tatum and Aaron Rodgers’ comments about returning late in the season as motivational carrots for their teams.

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3. Knicks’ Unifying Force & Fan Perspective

[09:43–12:34]

• Fan Call — The Knicks Bring New York Together: Caller Lou underscores the Knicks’ role as NYC’s “great unifier,” more so than any other sports team in the city.
  • Lou: “Nothing gets the city together like New York Knicks. ...I do think that Deuce’s success this year will catapult the Knicks to, to hopefully a championship season.” (09:43)
• Host Reflections:
  • Rosenberg affirms, “It is true, no team brings the city together like the Knicks... more than any other sport, there's the biggest gap between the basketball [interest].” (10:57)

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4. Knicks Win Projections & The Reality of Championship Windows

[15:30–18:00]

• Win Totals and Eastern Seeding:
  • Don Hahn: “53 [wins].”
  • Rosenberg: “That's nothing wrong with 53. ...So that would be an improvement.” (15:46–15:56)
• Playoff Positioning & East Competition: A consensus emerges that 53 wins could land the Knicks as a 2 or 3 seed, unless teams like Philadelphia make unexpected jumps.

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5. Giannis Trade Speculation & NBA Team-Building Challenges

[21:56–30:32]

• Giannis Watch Remains at the Forefront: The hosts explain how the Knicks’ success (or lack thereof) could determine if they re-engage the pursuit of Giannis Antetokounmpo next summer.
  • Hahn: “This season could decide whether or not the Knicks re-engage the idea of Giannis... It's a real thing that's going to hang over this team.” (21:58)
  • Peter: “If you look out-manned again in the conference finals, not great… it would get very loud.” (23:54)
• Superstar Trades Not Like They Used To Be:
  • Hahn: “It’s so difficult to do, so it's easy to say, ‘Oh, they should have traded for him...’ But if I showed you what would be left, you'd say, ‘I don't know how the hell you win with that.’” (26:57)
• NBA's Second Apron Hard Cap: The difficulty of trading for a transcendent talent like Giannis under new cap rules; referencing Phoenix’s “big three” as a cautionary tale.

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6. Interview: John Starks

[31:07–38:32]

Vibe Check & Expectations

• Starks’ Season Outlook:
  • “No, I feel great. ...I'm excited about the players that we brought in during the offseason. I'm excited about the offense that we're going to be running to take a little pressure off of Jalen. So it should be good.” (31:52, Starks)
• On Being Favorites:
  • “I feel like these guys understand that they're one of the favorites to come out the east, if not the favorite, in my opinion. So they should have a lot of confidence going into the season that they are the team to beat.” (34:43, Starks)

Nostalgia — Riley’s Midnight Madness

• On Pat Riley’s Training Camps:
  • “No, it was a real thing. …Coach Riley just kind of, you know, get some excitement going into the season. …Kind of took you back to your college days, you know, like Midnight Madness.” (33:28–33:52, Starks)

How to Manage Jalen Brunson & Key to Success

• On Brunson’s Usage:
  • “Probably on average 34, 35 minutes at the most. A lot of nights the load is going to be on him…but you want to take a lot of that off of him… When he's fresh, he's the best in the league for closing out games…” (35:04–35:57, Starks)
• On Indiana Rivalry:
  • “It always harken back to… our days playing against Indiana. …They always seem like they're in the mix and we seem like we always go up against them.” (36:20–36:59, Starks)
• On Team-Wide Effort:
  • “I think everybody [needs to step up]… That's what it's going to take in order to win it all.” (37:12, Starks)
• On Mike Brown:
  • “His philosophy… Ball movement is key. …You watch the team [he had] in Sacramento, that's all they was doing, moving the ball.” (37:46, Starks)

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7. Interview: Pat O’Keefe

[39:21–46:24]

Season Outlook

• On Anticipation:
  • “This is the most highly anticipated Knicks season of the century.” (39:29, O'Keefe)

Management’s New Approach & Rest

• On Resting Players:
  • “I think what we're seeing is what we kind of expected, that things overall are going to be different this year. The offense is supposed to be different. Use the bench more. Don’t rely so heavily on the starters. ...I think this is all part of that.” (41:06–41:53, O’Keefe)

Star Responsibility & Ball Movement

• On Brunson and Ball Movement:
  • Rosenberg: “Is the only play we have… give the ball to Jalen was kind of everything? …Do you expect to see… a rejuvenated Jalen Brunson without having to have that much of the load?” (43:01–43:21)
  • O’Keefe: “Maybe we'll see some growing pains… but… the Knicks do have some wiggle room in the regular season to have some growing pains to ease off the gas a little bit.” (43:21–43:41)

Supporting Cast Must Step Up

• On Bridges & Anunoby:
  • “If the Knicks are going to win a championship… it’s going to come from OG Anunoby… being available. …And also, Mikal Bridges has to be Mikal Bridges… during the regular season last year, offensively, he wasn’t the player you thought you were going to get.” (44:34–45:34, Peter)
• On Bridges' Bounce-Back Need:
  • O’Keefe: “I think one A for Mike Brown to take this team to the next level is to get Bridges back to who the guy was that the Knicks brought in 15 months ago.” (45:35–46:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The rest of the NBA… let's prove to the world that the Knicks aren’t gonna have it just a dance to the final.” —Rosenberg (03:25)
• “Nothing gets the city together like New York Knicks.” —Caller Lou (09:43)
• “This season could decide whether or not the Knicks re-engage the idea of Giannis... It's a real thing that's going to hang over this team.” —Alan Hahn (21:58)
• “Transcendent is can this player make you immediately a contender? [Giannis] is in a category… of legitimately you can win a championship because you, you can.” —Peter (25:15)
• “If I showed you what would be left [after a superstar trade], you’d say, ‘I don't know how the hell you win with that.’” —Alan Hahn (26:57)
• “No, it was a real thing. ...Coach Riley just kind of, you know, get some excitement going into the season.” —John Starks (33:28–33:52)
• “When he's fresh, he's the best in the league for closing out games.” —John Starks on Jalen Brunson (35:57)
• “This is the most highly anticipated Knicks season of the century.” —Pat O’Keefe (39:29)

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Segment Timestamps

• [00:43] — Show opens at Stout NYC; Knicks-Cavs preview, player availability talk
• [03:15] — Cavs’ motivation and the “Knicks spotlight” effect
• [06:42] — Discussion of Pacers, Celtics, and their injury impacts
• [09:43] — Fan call from Lou about Knicks' unifying force
• [15:30] — Hosts predict Knicks’ win total, discuss playoff seeding
• [21:56] — Giannis talk: team-building and existential pressure on the Knicks
• [31:07] — John Starks joins: Expectations, Riley stories, Brunson’s workload
• [39:21] — Pat O’Keefe joins: Changes in coaching, rest, and ball movement
• [44:34] — Final thoughts on Anunoby, Bridges, and the Knicks’ championship path

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Tone & Energy

The episode is energetic, authentic, and irreverently insightful—blending hard basketball analysis with classic NYC sports radio warmth and wit. The hosts and guests don’t sugarcoat expectations, but the hope and excitement for a special Knicks season radiate throughout.

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Summary prepared for listeners who missed the live show and want an in-depth, timestamped recap of the key conversations, insights, and personalities.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] this is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Rosenberg]

This is Don on a Rosenberg Knicks season opener broadcast live from Scout brought to you by Sun Cruiser, a proud sponsor of the New York Knicks. Ready to let the good times Cruz Then you need Sun Cruiser vodka iced tea made with real iced tea, real vodka and no bubbles. It's one wildly refreshing drink. Stout's been so nice to us during the nick run last year. Great to start the regular season here at stout right on 33rd off of 7th Avenue. So you're heading to the game. Swing by, say hello. We're going to be here until 6:30. John Starks is on his way. He'll be here at the bottom of the hour. Pat o', Keefe, who's got the radio call is also going to be joining us as well. So we talked a lot about the adjustments and you know, load management and all that, but it is, don't get me wrong, it's still a very winnable game and a game that they should be able to still win. So how do they do it? Alan?

[Don Hahn]

Well, you have wings and I think the way this team plays this year you're going to get a lot more out of Mikhail Bridges and Og Anunoby. Everybody made a big deal about Bridges and the five first round picks and all that stuff and he had a season strong but he wasn't exactly at the level that people expected. He was better in the playoffs, but he even said to his standards. I'm curious to see if he's ready to have like that breakout. He's never been an All Star before and in this kind of a system up tempo, he's going to leak out, get some easy buckets. Could he be a guy that really takes that next step? Adenobi we know is an all star level player that we didn't get there last year but he was getting there. So these two guys with Brunson are still formidable. Towns is listed as questionable. I haven't checked the latest injury report, but the Last I saw, he's listed as questionable. He's been dealing with, like, a quad strain, basically from practice. So all you're really looking for is do you have the star power on opening night in your building to beat a very good team that's also missing some star power? They don't have Darius Garland, they don't have Max Strus, who's a starter for them, and we don't know what DeAndre Hunter, who's a good player for them, is going to be. So both teams aren't really going to be at full strength, but they have Donovan Mitchell, they have Evan Mobley, who's really good. Jared Allen is, you know, is a good defensive center. You have to be able to come up with better star power than they in your building. And as you said, you want to set a tone. You want to send a message. You want to, you know, put the word out that we back up. Like, you want that kind of stuff and. And that mentality tonight. There's enough on that court for the Knicks to do that.

[Rosenberg]

And the Cavaliers play with a chip on their shoulder. I'm sure they're ticked about how it ended last year. They had a meaningless game down the stretch against the Knicks, still beat them because they saw value.

[Don Hahn]

That's right.

[Rosenberg]

And we talked about target on their back, right, because the rest of the NBA kind of like you remember the Broncos talking about the Giants and really feeling it after beating the Philadelphia Eagles. But I'm sure the rest of the NBA took knows, hey, look, look what's happening in New York. Something's buzzing here. And even though they didn't win, it's still, hey, they're the hot team. Everybody's picking them to come out of the East. So all these Eastern teams that are being told their second banana, their circle on the Knicks and go, let's prove to the world that the Knicks aren't going to have it just a dance to the final. So teams like Cleveland and Boston, right out of the box, two teams they're going to play that are going to say, hey, you know what, we got to be heard from, too.

[Don Hahn]

You got to be ready for it. And it's. By the way, not only do you have. Which is a rare thing, where the Knicks are considered a contender, whether people want to believe it or not, you also have the Garden, which, you know, do you need much more motivation. You just pull up in the. You pull up in the bus and everybody's ready to go.

[Rosenberg]

What was, you know, Bernard King's story when he was with the Bullets coming to the guard.

[Don Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter]

Right. Ma.

[Rosenberg]

You know, come early, I'm gonna be lighting them up. Like, there's just something about coming to.

[Peter]

Madison Square Guard, especially for basketball, everyone.

[Don Hahn]

But now it's even more. Because you're ramped up, because this is a good team, and you don't want to be embarrassed. You want to be ready for them. And at some. Some of the good teams, you're going to get their best because they almost want to make a statement and do it at the Garden because they know when we leave here, oh, the frenzy. Oh, the media is going to go crazy. We're going to leave them in a mess. The good teams always think that. I've talked to players about this. The good teams come in knowing if we beat them, not only do we beat them, but we leave them in shambles because of the coverage and the fans and everything else.

[Peter]

And the Cavs probably have a little bit of an extra chip because they've obviously proven a lot. And, like, everyone's already talking about the Knicks. Always about the Knicks.

[Don Hahn]

The Cavs still are favorite in the. In the East.

[Peter]

No, no. Favored.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter]

But that doesn't mean they get talked about.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter]

So I think you come in and you go, I'm sick of turning on the tv and Stephen A. Smith's going off every day about the Knicks.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter]

Oh, no one wants to work. We're not a sexy team. Blah, blah, blah. That's extra motivation on top of it.

[Rosenberg]

And I. I don't know how it was when you were, you know, growing up down in D.C. but I always felt like it hits different with New York because I think a lot of these other teams around the league feel like, oh, New York always gets the attention, like, there could be an upstart team, but if it was out, you know, coming out of Portland or Cleveland or someplace else, it wouldn't matter as much. Listen, Stephen A. Smith can talk about the Knicks, not because he's a fan, because he knows even on a national television program, the Knicks still resonate with the country, just like the Lakers still resonate. Right. So it's not like he's talking up a team that 75% and it gets.

[Peter]

Old and you're the Cavs, you're going, hey, we were a better team last year. Yes, we ended up losing the second round, but we were a better team all season long.

[Don Hahn]

It's what makes it fun and what. This is what you want. Like, you want to be in this.

[Peter]

No, there's some Z there.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Peter]

You want to be a little bit of spice.

[Rosenberg]

And what are the Pacers and the Celtics thinking? They probably love this. Nobody's giving them a chance. They lost their best player, so they're going to want to prove the world wrong.

[Peter]

By the way, I completely. I completely agreed with Legler. I really think that the Pacers, minus Halliburton and Tyrese, my guy, no disrespect, get name drop ready? Tyrese, my boy, big wrestling man. But the. The Pacers, without Tyrese, you look at their box scores all the time. Tyrese has nights where he goes for six points and they get it.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that was the criticism of him early in the season. Is. Is that there. There are games where he's.

[Peter]

No, he's not a suit. And I've said that he's not a superstar in that way, but he played.

[Don Hahn]

Like that in the playoffs.

[Peter]

In the playoffs, though, it was different. The Celtics, though, minus Tatum, that's minus a classic superstar. He doesn't get enough credit for it either, either, frankly. He's not sexy enough, he's not brash enough, but he is 25 or 30 points every single night. And also, you talk about the other players who are gone from that team. I didn't even realize Al Horford had landed in Golden State. Frankly, that's such a huge win for them. The Celtics, Don, it's a repugnant list of players right now. Who knows how you'll feel in five months? But, I mean, they still have Peyton Pritchard as the sixth man, which is hilarious because he's the third best player.

[Don Hahn]

They will let him start.

[Peter]

Yeah, put the man in the starting lineup. Have you looked who else's play?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, it's great. But look, Joe Missoula will have them competitive early in the season. If they don't win enough games, eventually that'll. They'll want to kind of have that gap year and.

[Rosenberg]

And they're gonna.

[Don Hahn]

They're gonna be fired up because maybe.

[Rosenberg]

The playoffs aren't guaranteed for them. So the regular season at first, certainly.

[Peter]

They'Re going to go for it.

[Rosenberg]

To Alan's point early on.

[Don Hahn]

Are you buying the. The Tatum. Oh, I. I want to play at the end of the season stuff that there's no way in hell if I'm a franchise, I'm letting this guy on the.

[Rosenberg]

No, but it could work as motivation for the players to say, let's be in a position that if he does come back, it's worth coming back, even if it doesn't. Even if it's not going to happen. It could be something that motivates the room.

[Don Hahn]

It's like Aaron Rodgers saying he wanted to come back late.

[Rosenberg]

But then why do you think Rogers did that? Rogers did that because he's like, listen, if there's meaningful games, I want to have the option of playing in meaningful games. Let's keep the guys engaged to give them a carrot to go after. What, what's. So even if, even if it's bs, all right. It still could be worth doing.

[Peter]

I, I had it. I had like an off the record. I won't say anything like to reveal, but I had an off the record conversation with Tyrese when I was in Indiana about that same option.

[Rosenberg]

Where's the.

[Peter]

Listen, I told him to hit the button.

[Don Hahn]

Waiting for drop.

[Peter]

That's up to Jacob to hit the button. I'm setting you up for it. We had the conversation. I think it's out there as like a.

[Rosenberg]

There it is.

[Peter]

There you go. It's out there as like a.

[Rosenberg]

Sure.

[Peter]

If they're going to championship run, I'll do my best to get back. But I don't think they. He's not realistically thinking about this year.

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Peter]

He's thinking, why not throw it out there, though?

[Rosenberg]

What does it hurt?

[Don Hahn]

It doesn't hurt to say, I'll try because, you know, it's not ever going to come to that point. So it's worth putting that out there. But what I don't like is like, people pick up and they start writing about it like it's a thing and you're like, man, well, that's what happens.

[Rosenberg]

1-800-919-3776. Got a couple of calls to get to before John Starks joins us. Want to let you know there are a lot of reasons why people buy at Ramsey Mazda. It's their selection, it's their customer service, and it's their savings. Lisa, do 2025 Mazda CX 32.5s all wheel drive for 159 for 33 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda dot com. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. Vin SM 841631 MSRP 26980 0. Security deposit ends 1031. 25. Let's go to Lou in Manalapan. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Lou?

[Caller Lou]

Hey, fellas. Love the show as always. Exciting, exciting day. The Knicks. I've been, I've been a Knicks fan my whole life. I'm also a Met Jet, Knicks Rangers fan and like those teams. Yeah like we know that we have our expectations and the Mets have supposed to been good and the Yankees are supposed to be good, but nothing gets the city together like New York Knicks. And I think the season is going to be. Yeah, I just think that this season and especially since Thibodeau did what he did, went to Boston, did all that stuff, I think, you know, the Knicks are going to be motivated. They have a team, they have a full roster that they could play with. They could plug and play guys off the bench. There's going to be interesting combos. I'm really excited to see what Yelli and Jordan Clarkson bring to the mix because they're real good bench options. You know, saw a podcast recently said that Deuce McBride is the most important Knick and I do think that Deuce's success this year will, will. Will catapult the Knicks to, to hopefully a championship season. So I'm really excited. Let's go Knicks and let's. Let's have meaningful basketball in June.

[Peter]

I love your attitude. I love what you've brought to the table today and I hope it permeates through the. The fan base because it is true no team brings the city together like the Knicks. I and I always feel bad and it's not intentional shade to the Nets. I got a lot of love for, for the Nets as an organization and how they operate and the Barkley center, but it's just being realistic until one day when they win a ring or they go on until we get there. The truth is, more than any other sport, there's the biggest gap between the basketball.

[Don Hahn]

They are it's the Knicks town and where they play obviously at the center of the universe here and then on top of it. But they have become when they're good, the great unifier when it comes to sports fans because they're, you know, there's a Jets and Giants fan who can root together. There's Mets and Yankees same side. Like it is to me that, yeah, he keeps hitting.

[Rosenberg]

I don't bowl.

[Don Hahn]

He keeps muting me.

[Rosenberg]

Well, let me ask.

[Don Hahn]

It's unreal.

[Rosenberg]

If the cough button's closer to you then it wouldn't it be yours.

[Don Hahn]

That's a you problem the first time should have told you. Like he's muted to me three times during the show. Like, is that his way of telling me like, yo, that's enough by the way.

[Peter]

By the way. Maybe, maybe he's trying to sell you. I'm wait, I'm all. And it's Also delayed. It barely even worked. But we're trying our best. Okay.

[Rosenberg]

And that's not enough.

[Don Hahn]

It's all good, by the way.

[Peter]

I'm glad.

[Don Hahn]

All good enough.

[Peter]

I'm glad Allan finally did the right thing. I've been waiting all day long. You finally did the right thing.

[Don Hahn]

You wait all day for Sunday night.

[Peter]

I wait until day for Sunday night. No, you. You unbutton your suit when you sat down now, finally. And Don's wearing it standing up. But before, you were both sitting with it buttoned. And I don't know why we've done this as a society.

[Don Hahn]

I. No, no, no. I normally unbutton it. I don't know why I didn't.

[Rosenberg]

Okay, good. I'm just.

[Don Hahn]

I'm like. We're. It's. It's a lot going.

[Peter]

Because everyone does that now. The sitting when they. They button. When they sit now a. I'm too fat for it, so it's not an option.

[Rosenberg]

Well, that's why I'm excited.

[John Starks]

No, but.

[Peter]

Because it actually fit. But just because it fits doesn't mean it's right. We know you're excited.

[Rosenberg]

You look great. Somebody that's fashion conscious. I was just looking at that. You know, the people watching aren't going to get, you know, poked in the eye with my button because I sat.

[Peter]

Down and it didn't explode. But that doesn't mean it's the right thing.

[Rosenberg]

Thank you. I. I don't know these things.

[Peter]

No, it's supposed to be. Traditionally, it's sitting open, stand up and. But no one on TV does that.

[Don Hahn]

Did you see the Bernard King photo that's on Social of us with Bernard?

[Rosenberg]

What happened?

[Peter]

Did something unfortunate happen?

[Don Hahn]

It's. No, no, nothing unfortunate. It's just my height. No, awful. Just. It just looks awful. The lighting is brutal.

[Caller Lou]

Oh, no.

[Don Hahn]

Why was it posted?

[Peter]

What happened?

[Don Hahn]

It's a terrible.

[Rosenberg]

Was it the one with us taking the shots?

[Don Hahn]

No, no, thankfully that one didn't. But. But we're just ha. We're just smiling. But if you look at, like, how the lighting is so bad, it just. We're up.

[Peter]

Well, listen, I want to give a shout out to our team here today. No, the team does a great job. It's a tough lighting spot that they're in.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter]

I've been sort of white it out the whole day. You guys look better. Yeah, I've been on the YouTube checking it out better. Okay, but listen, look how far we've come at the beginning. By the way, I ran into one of our wonderful listeners and she Was like, oh my God, I miss having you guys on TV. And I'm like, we're on now every day on YouTube. It's literally the exact same experience that you had if you were a K show viewer on. Yes. Literally. It's, it's maybe better.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Not the same commercial over and over again.

[Peter]

Yeah, you don't, you don't have to see the commercial.

[Don Hahn]

What do I do with all this scrap metal? You don't have to deal with that commercial anymore.

[Peter]

What was the, what was the, you.

[Don Hahn]

Remember the scrap metal commercial?

[Peter]

Did you ever see that one?

[Don Hahn]

Yes. What do I do?

[Peter]

And what about the shirts that we never got?

[Rosenberg]

Untuck it.

[Peter]

I never got Tuck it. Not one Untuck it shirt sent to me. Never in all those years I sat next to the damn logo for, for seven years. They never sent me.

[Rosenberg]

Michael.

[Don Hahn]

Dude.

[Peter]

Oh, are you kidding me? His house is probably. His curtains are made of extra untuckets. And what about the Trumpy doll? Remember that one?

[Rosenberg]

The Trumpy doll. That was a tough doll there, There were a few of the, the Chia Pet commercials.

[Peter]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Rosenberg]

There might have been a Chia Trump too. I'm not sure.

[Don Hahn]

But there might have been.

[Rosenberg]

Right.

[Peter]

So the combination.

[Rosenberg]

But yeah, but you'll see, you're going to get a lot of, know, BART and Carlin promos.

[Peter]

Exactly. A lot of K. A lot of K promos.

[Don Hahn]

You're welcome. Right.

[Rosenberg]

The K with the, with the hoodie, with the, with the sport coat.

[Peter]

Yeah, you'll get that. Now, I'm trying to find the picture.

[Rosenberg]

You got, you got me curious now.

[Don Hahn]

The photo. Yeah, I, I, I just, for some reason I opened it just to that and I went, oh, Lord. Well, not a good.

[Rosenberg]

I'm going run the catch train to get to the Rock because I got a game tonight. But before I go, give me a window. Like, honest to goodness, with all the information that we have, what do you think the Knicks win total is for the regular season?

[Don Hahn]

53.

[Rosenberg]

I was going to say that too.

[Peter]

6 and 1.

[Rosenberg]

That's nothing wrong with 53. How many had the last year?

[Don Hahn]

50.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

So that would be an improvement.

[John Starks]

50.

[Don Hahn]

51.

[Rosenberg]

Now where do you think that will seat them?

[Don Hahn]

You know, it should have them at 2 or 3. Now I can't see another team getting 50 plus wins in the east unless.

[Rosenberg]

Well, somebody asked to if they're going.

[Don Hahn]

To be a three. I mean, if Philly somehow just, you know, gets healthy and embiid and Paul.

[Peter]

George, when's that going well?

[Don Hahn]

I mean, it could happen earlier this season, believe it or not. And they're healthy. You did it again.

[Rosenberg]

I'm sorry.

[Don Hahn]

Keeps doing it.

[Rosenberg]

It's the one.

[Don Hahn]

It's it. You know what? Just play me out, Don, from now on, if I'm going on.

[Rosenberg]

I asked you a question, so obviously I wanted to hear the answer.

[Peter]

God, it's playing out.

[Don Hahn]

That's it. That's all right. We. We got it fixed now that you're leaving. No, it's just Philly. Something like that.

[Peter]

He didn't mean that. He didn't mean it that way.

[Don Hahn]

What?

[Peter]

He didn't mean it's all fixed now that you're leaving. Like he didn't mean, like the show's going to get all better now that you're leaving.

[Rosenberg]

I didn't take it that way.

[Peter]

Button to not place at the LA when it doesn't matter what I'm saying. Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Don Hahn]

Just finishing the thought. Teams that have superstars that can carry a team, Sixers, you know, bucks like you always worry about teams like that. Just figuring it out and getting healthy.

[Peter]

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[Don Hahn]

Talk about stepping up.

[Peter]

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[Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

And the best championship moments. The electricity is palpable.

[Peter]

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[Rosenberg]

Level up.

[Don Hahn]

For More on the ESPN app or.

[Peter]

At stream.espn.com Sign up now.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. Every aspect of your business, from the most mundane to the most complex, will operate orders of magnitude better and faster. When you add artificial intelligence, AI is literally a race to the top. The companies that engage AI first will win. Will that be you or will it be your competitors? Thrive. Managed AI is your advantage over all your competitors. Founded by tech powerhouses, Thrive partners with you on smart and secure AI strategy for your business. Then they deploy and manage it for you. Imagine AI solutions working across every part of your business. Automating support, powering chatbots, analyzing competitors, even managing billing, collections and orders. That's just a taste of what Thrive Managed AI can help you achieve. It makes your talented team even better by letting them focus on what they do best. The race to the top will be won by those who engage Thrive Managed AI first. That needs to be you. Go to thrive next gen.com espn and get started with a complimentary strategy consultation. That's thrive next gen.com ESPN thrive next gen.com/espn so Peter, we have John Starks coming momentarily. He's on his way getting ready for tonight's Knicks season opener at the Garden against the Cleveland Cavaliers. Two teams that are expected to be the top two teams in the Eastern Conference. And we'll see if the pay, if the road is paid for the Knicks to meet this Cavaliers. Who knows, we could be here in May and these two teams could be playing each other in the conference finals. If it goes chalk. That's what you would expect and that's what everybody's anticipating. But it is amazing that it is that long road in between and all the things that can happen in between.

[Peter]

But time flies, right? I was just thinking about it last time we were here and it was before the summer, obviously. It was just getting into.

[Don Hahn]

It was. We were here. We were downstairs and I think we were in the conference finals. We were up here in this conference.

[Peter]

Finals downstairs, Detroit series. And we were here for the Detroit.

[Don Hahn]

Right. The first round that opened up. Yeah. And we didn't know what to expect. Right. It was always the what's next.

[Peter]

I know. And then, and then you blink and here we are, start of a new season.

[Don Hahn]

Do you think since COVID 60 seconds is now 30 seconds.

[Peter]

So I, I've always felt this. I can't judge whether it's. I hadn't actually thought about COVID but like I thought about my age and.

[Don Hahn]

Having a child downs and you know.

[Peter]

No, no, I hadn't thought exactly. I hadn't thought about that being the, the demarcation of things changed because you were already at that point well into having children.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. So you notice then. Yeah.

[Peter]

That's interesting.

[Don Hahn]

It felt to me that when, when we came back from all that and you know, instead of working from home, it.

[Peter]

Because that probably slowed things down.

[Don Hahn]

Everything felt slower.

[Peter]

And so as a Result, when we went back to regular, everything felt faster.

[Don Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter]

So you have to remember time is essentially a game in our minds. Like your life will affect what time is. So it would make a lot of sense, I feel right now, dude, this October is just a wrap.

[Don Hahn]

Yep. Already.

[Peter]

And then you blink a couple weekends and it's Thanksgiving, and now it's just like, yeah, I don't like this. I don't like it. Especially with my baby getting older faster. I'm not ready.

[Don Hahn]

Wait till you find Gracie had senior night last night at St. Anthony's so.

[Peter]

That'S your last one.

[Don Hahn]

No, no, you have one more. Callie Kelly's still 10. You got a lot more work to be done here.

[Peter]

Sorry, sorry. Kelly's giving you some time, but again.

[Don Hahn]

You think of four years going by, like four years of high school just go by at a Blake. You just say to yourself like that, how did that just happen? So trust me, all that's coming. But think about where the Knicks have come in four years. If you want to bring it back to that, think about that four years, four years ago.

[Peter]

It's like we're having Trey Young conversation.

[Don Hahn]

Leon Rose took over and what are they going to be? And they bring in Thibodeau, and who knows? There's no Brunson here yet. You don't know where this thing's going. And I got to be honest, as much as we don't want to talk about on opening night, we do have to mention it. This season could decide whether or not the Knicks re engage. The idea of Giannis Dennis. It's a real. It's a real thing that's going to hang over this team. I don't see him getting traded in season. We know from reports that they had talked about it in August. They had a chance for it. Brian Windhorst said they had a chance to make a deal and they said no. They wanted to. They didn't want to blow the team up and leave it almost with nothing. Where it's Brunson, Giannis and you and me, like they weren't going to have enough pieces left after a massive trade to make that happen. So you have to think, though, that with the urgency of if Giannis is really calling it a day after one year, if he's got one more year left in Milwaukee, and then he's really going to push it, because that's where he starts to get to the end of his contract extension, control my destiny time. You can't let him go to another team. You can't let Them go somewhere else, especially in the east, right? So you, if you don't get to the promised land or feel like you are right on the doorstep of winning a chip, that conversation continues again next summer. And I'll tell you what, if the Knicks, you know, they got to be feeling this. If you aren't playing at a level this year throughout the season with full health and all the stuff that we.

[Peter]

Talk about, oh, the conversation starts, it.

[Don Hahn]

Will not go away.

[Peter]

It'll get louder and louder, louder and.

[Don Hahn]

Louder before the trade deadline, it'll get louder and louder all year year. And these guys have to hear all of it. If that's what's hanging over this team right now, fair or unfair, it's a real thing. So a good start or playing well quiets that.

[Peter]

By the way, even if they just, they could go back to the conference finals, if you come up short in.

[Don Hahn]

The conference final, it still comes back.

[Peter]

If you look out manned again in.

[Don Hahn]

The conference finals, not great.

[Peter]

Because remember, the general consensus was they were outclassed in the, in the conference final.

[Don Hahn]

They were outplayed, they were out.

[Peter]

They were out coached and they were out coached.

[Don Hahn]

Carlisle was, he was unbelievable in that series. He had every, he had every counter and he had every way to expose every single weakness.

[Peter]

So if you switch the head coach, you go back to a conference final and the same thing were to happen, how was the fan base going to be satisfied with running it back a third time?

[Rosenberg]

I don't know.

[Peter]

So I think it would get very loud. And now I will say this. I understand fans attachment to players and I think it's really hard when you talk about trading for a huge name, knowing what it will cost your team. Giannis Antetokounmpo, who, don't get me wrong, has become a bit of a heel over the last couple of years. He's not, he's not the same lovable, fresh off the boat from Athens, Giannis we first knew. He's got a little bit more of an attitude, but with good reason. By the way, he's done this over and over again.

[Don Hahn]

Multiple MVP guy, always in the conversation and won a championship.

[Peter]

People throw around transcendent. To me it is. Transcendent is can this player make you immediately a contender? He is in a category, Al, I don't think there's more than three or four in the league of legitimately you.

[Don Hahn]

Can win a championship because you, you can. But under the current, like 10 years ago, no brainer. But under the current rules, fans have to understand that like those who complained about the Carmelo Anthony trade and how that blew up a roster. They still had a good team. That team got hurt that year in that playoff, and then they were trying to build it, and, you know, it didn't turn into a championship, but they did little things to try to get there. That was all about just spending money. Oh, tax. Okay, we got to spend tax. This is different. The new rules, the second apron that everybody hates, which really acts like a hard cap. It's almost impossible to do a blow your roster up, trade for a transcendent player and still build a team around the transcendent player and the secondary player that you might have, or whatever it is, or the two stars, whether it be Brunson and Giannis, and build around it enough that you can win. Case in point, Phoenix Suns. They had three unbelievably talented superstars that could carry a team.

[Peter]

Weren't able to build anything, and they could.

[Don Hahn]

They just. There was nothing else they could put around them to make it competitive. So you were relying on three guys every night, which we know is impossible in today's league. No bench, three guys against teams that were deeper, teams that were. Were able to play you in a playoff when they got there, and then. Or in the regular season, then they had no chance. One injury and you're cooked. That's why it's not as easy as it used to be. This is not a baseball trade. This is not getting Shohei Ohtani. Right. This is much different because of what it does to your roster. It's so difficult to do, so it's easy to say, oh, they should have traded for him, or they should trade for him. It's easy to say that. But if I showed you what would be left, you'd say, I don't know how the hell you win with that.

[Peter]

Well, so. So here's the question. With a player as good as Giannis, who can the Bucks even go after, that would be able to do it in a way where it would still be worthwhile? I mean, obviously, picks will be involved in it, too, but they're going to need players.

[Don Hahn]

You're going to. I'm telling you, this type of trade, which. Remember the KD move for the Rockets, that was a record trait, right? Record crazy bodies moving everywhere. It's going to take a trade of that level that you're going to have to get four teams involved, bunch of picks involved, a lot of players, or maybe a young player or two that might end up going to different places. Like you're. You're trying to get a quarter, like a third of the league or even a quarter of the league to help you get the player that no one wants you to get. Because they know what it means if you get them. Think about that.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Who, who's gonna like. No, it's a very, very difficult thing to do. So on paper it sounds amazing. Put a guy like that in New York, put him with Brunson and, and maybe even a championship. But it's, it's just not like getting Earl Monroe back in 1971. Right. It's not like that. It's so much harder.

[Peter]

And I bet the rest of the league would be even more apt to block that than kd.

[Don Hahn]

Or make it more difficult for you.

[Peter]

That's what I mean. What do you do more apt. More exactly. More difficult.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, you want me to throw in some picks? What are you doing for me?

[Peter]

Well, because kd, at this stage in his career, this, like you said, took a lot. KD's already been on multiple teams. Not one in those places. He's still great, but he's aging. Giannis is still right there right now, prime at this moment.

[Don Hahn]

Prime top three player in the league.

[Peter]

If he's.

[Don Hahn]

Every year he's in the MVP conversation.

[Peter]

So. Yeah, that's a really good point.

[Don Hahn]

You know what I mean? And so while that's going to be the easy conversation to have throughout the year, if the Knicks stumble out of the gate, you know, it's the first place everybody's, oh, they could have gotten Giannis in August if they, they could have gotten them. The problem with that conversation is it's not valid because it's not a baseball trade. It is, it is so restrictive on what you can do once you go over that second April and if you blow up your roster, it's impossible to rebuild it and build a championship level team. Not like it used to be. Even just five years ago, six years ago. No one is going over that second apron with one team has. The Cavs. They have the highest payroll by far. Almost like 329 million. With the, with the Tech, they're spending more in tax than some teams are spending on their roster.

[Peter]

That's so funny. I wouldn't have guessed that. That's the Cat.

[Don Hahn]

Well, it's Dan Gilbert. He's Prince Money. Literally actually with Rocket Mortgage.

[Peter]

But Anderson Varjow cost that much.

[Don Hahn]

But it's, but it's a, it's a real thing that I want everybody to just take into consideration because I know it's coming. I know it's coming. They should have done it. They should have traded for Giannis. And then you say, how. How could they have done it without absolutely destroying the team? Not having a roster around these two and then trying to, like, wait two, three years to build a team around them while you aren't as competitive as you could be with this team. It's. It's not as easy as you think. But it's impossible to say they wouldn't go back to that conversation if this year doesn't go the way they want it to.

[Peter]

All right, let me. Let me hit you up with a little bit of a game time brought to you by Tullamore do Irish Whiskey, because when it's game time, it's tolly time.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks, Fred Flintstone.

[Peter]

Thank you. The Knicks open their season, in case you didn't know, against the Cavs with coverage immediately following us right here on 880 at 6:30, Nets and the Hornets at 7. And of course, Don in Jersey for Devils Wild at 6 7. More classic Donnie Pucks on the way. Tullamore due the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore do or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly.

[Don Hahn]

So Donnie did talk about. He. So he had to be here. He wanted to be here for this event, but he had a game to call it the Rock. So what did he do? He looked at the train schedule, said, this is as far as I can go. Ran to the train, jumped on the train en route. Now to the Rock to call the game tonight. That's a hustle. See, that's, that's, that's how you. That's New York Hustle. Speaking of New York Hustle, he's Donny.

[Peter]

Trucks, if you will.

[Don Hahn]

Yes. Speaking of New York Hustle, let me.

[Peter]

Make some room here for the legend John the great, iconic John Starks has stepped into stout NYC Johnny Rockets as we get ready for game one. John, how are you, man?

[Don Hahn]

I'm good.

[John Starks]

How you doing?

[Peter]

How you feeling? What's.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I need. I need a vibe check with you.

[Peter]

Vibe check? What's the aura?

[Don Hahn]

Because we were just talking to Bernard King about, like, you know, again, alumni row.

[John Starks]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And how everybody. And everybody always talks about all the alumni. Whenever we ask them, you are the guy that kind of leads the way. You got the towel over your shoulder, you're into it like a fan, which is so relatable. So I Know you ride the waves of emotion.

[John Starks]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

How are you feeling going into this season and what are your expectations?

[John Starks]

No, I feel great. You know, I was excited about obviously we made some changes at the top, changing head coaches and, you know, so I'm excited about that. I'm excited about the players that we brought in during the off season. I'm excited about the offense that we're going to be running to take a little pressure off of Jalen. So it should be good. I know the guys are excited. Any indications on how they play against Philly? And you really saw the ball popping around. It looks real good.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And obviously that's going to still take a minute.

[John Starks]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

The expectations for this team going in, especially where they are like where Vegas has them. Right. They have the fourth shortest odds from Vegas to win the championship. They are power ranked in the top four as well. NBA.com I looked the last time the Knicks had higher. A higher ranking as far as preseason expectations win A championship was 93, 94. Yeah, that's true. Not the year after year after. They were a little bit like, I think fourth.

[John Starks]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

But no, no, they were number one though, going into that 93, 94 season.

[John Starks]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

And they were in Abu Dhabi, which means they were one of the first teams on the court to play a game in the NBA this season. You know where I'm going, right?

[John Starks]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

The 93 training camp. I've always heard about Pat Riley's Midnight madness practice.

[John Starks]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

12:01 on the day you were allowed to practice.

[John Starks]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Did that really, like, was that a real thing or did he just gather you guys, let's talk about it and then I go back to bed. We'll do this in the morning.

[John Starks]

No, it was a real thing. Yeah. Coach Riley just kind of, you know, get some excitement going into the season. From the start, I bet you were.

[Don Hahn]

Excited.

[John Starks]

But it kind of took you back to your college days, you know, like Midnight Madness. Madness. And so I think that's what he was trying to, you know, accomplish during that time. So. But.

[Peter]

But did that set its own?

[Don Hahn]

Because he said, we want to be the first ones on, last ones off. And you came obviously very close to that.

[John Starks]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Did that. Did you just know, okay, we're on notice? Like, was that a. A tone setter?

[John Starks]

Yeah, no question. You know, Coach Riley was all about that, you know, setting tones and, you know, to get the season off to a good start and getting guys mentally focused because, you know, you have a long off season. You know, at the time where our offseason wasn't long, a lot of. A lot of other people, but just kind of get you re engaged back into the season. Understand that we have a great opportunity here, and he just wanted to make sure that everybody was on point. And I feel like these guys understand that they're one of the favorites to come out the east, if not the favorite, in my opinion. So they should have a lot of confidence going into the season that they are the team to beat.

[Peter]

You talked about the offense being different and what that could mean for, for Jalen.

[John Starks]

Yes.

[Peter]

In a perfect world, how much of the offensive responsibility should be falling on Jalen's shoulders? Like, what would be an ideal line? How many minutes would you love to see from Jalen? What would you love to see from Jalen Brunson to be able to have a more comfortable sort of regular season?

[John Starks]

Yeah, probably on average 34, 35 minutes at the most. I think that's a good number for him. Some nights, obviously he's going to play a lot more minutes and some, some nights the load is definitely going to be on him to get the job done, which he has proven that he can handle it and so. But you want to take a lot of that off of him. A lot of burden. You know, I just, you know, at the end of the season, the last two, two seasons, I just didn't look on his face at the end of those games against Indiana in game seven and against Indiana in game six, I just saw a weathered Jalen Brunson, you know what I mean? And we don't need that. When he's fresh, he's the best in the league for closing out games. And so that's what I want to see. And a lot of guys, they ready to step up and take a little bit of that load off of him. And, and so it's going to be a welcome sight.

[Don Hahn]

You know, you say, indiana, game seven, Indiana, game six. How sick of Indiana are you at this point from your playing career and the battles you guys had from back then to even what these last two years are like, it really does feel like that rivalry now. Who knows what they'll be this year without Tyrese. But still that it's. Isn't it amazing how all these years later it just comes back in full circle?

[John Starks]

Yeah, well, that team is always going to be in play. They have a good coach, they have good Rick Carlisle. He just knows how to get it done. You know, he's like Spoester down in Miami. No matter what they put out there on the, on the Floor, they always have a chance to win. So you have to just keep that in mind. Even though they star player Halliburton been down, I still think they have some solid, solid pieces over there that can still get the job done. So. But you know, yeah, it always harken back to, you know, our days playing against Indiana. They always seem like they're in the mid mix and we seem like we always go up against them.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[John Starks]

Constantly.

[Don Hahn]

It's unreal.

[John Starks]

Yeah, it is unreal. But you know, that's, that's basketball. That's what rivalries are made of.

[Peter]

Who, who else on this team do you really need to see a great year from if they're going to take a step forward?

[John Starks]

I think everybody, I think you just can't point the finger at one guy. We know Jalen's going to be there, but I think everybody have to step up and that's what it's going to take in order to win it all. But we have the talent, we have the coaching there just about these guys having that mindset that we are champions and we're going to go out there and every single night we're going to play like champions. And so. And that means, you know, getting it done on defensive end of the court and obviously on the offensive end of the court. And I feel like they can do that.

[Peter]

You mentioned, you mentioned coaching now a couple of times. You seem excited about Mike Brown. What is it about Mike Brown you like so much?

[John Starks]

Well, his philosophy, you know what I mean? This team is going to play with a more faster pace. They go. Ball movement is key. You look at all his teams that he, he's coached or been on as an assistant coach and with Popovich, with Steve Kerr, everything was about ball movement. And you watch the team that he had in Sacramento, that's all they was doing, moving the ball. And that was one of the highest scoring teams in the league. So I feel like that's really going to help and making sure that everybody stay engaged on that end of the court.

[Don Hahn]

And he wants to get those threes up. You know, John likes that. Well, John Starks and I have to get over to the Garden. Yeah, we got to get moving. So I'm passionate between on over to Peter. John, thanks so much for joining us here on the show.

[John Starks]

Thank you.

[Don Hahn]

We're gonna go. You will meet together. Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your Podcasts.

[Peter]

Han, Han and Rosenberg, Nick C's in opener broadcast live from Stout brought to you by Sun Cruiser. I don't know if you're allowed to have Pat o' Keefe probably shouldn't have a sip of this delicious lemonade iced tea vodka before the game, but it's fantastic. Of course. Shout out to Sun Cruiser, proud partner of the New York Knicks, ready to let the good times cruise. Then you need Sun Cruiser vodka iced tea made with real iced tea, real vodka and no bubbles. It's one wildly refreshing drink. And with that talking Knicks basketball, bring in Pat o', Keefe, who's on the call tonight. How you doing, buddy?

[Don Hahn]

I'm good, man. Good to see you.

[Pat O'Keefe]

It's been a while.

[Peter]

It has been a while. How you feeling about getting game one under the belt?

[Pat O'Keefe]

Game one's pretty fun.

[Peter]

That's pretty cool.

[Pat O'Keefe]

Been pumped up about this one for a while. Obviously, you know, going through the off season and seeing teams around the Knicks kind of falling a little due to injury. What the Knicks were able to accomplish last year, perhaps a fresh approach in the new head coach. I mean, this is, and I know this has been said, this isn't an original thought, sorry for that, but this is the most highly anticipated Knicks season of the century.

[Peter]

Yeah, it certainly is, right? I mean, hard to make that argument because. Yeah, you go just before the century started to find the last couple. Yeah, plenty. You had a bunch during the 90s, certainly way at the end there. And then in 94, 95, a lot of expectations are you one of the topics we've had today. And by the way, here's my plan moving forward for the rest of the program, if you up for it. Okay, then we go hardcore Knicks right here. We get, we get all into it. All of your thoughts on the upcoming season and some of the things we've been discussing today. Then I'm still going to go right into ENN at 6 o'.

[Don Hahn]

Clock. Beautiful.

[Peter]

I'm hearing, I'm hearing Justin Fields has had a lot to say about what was said about him by the owner, Woody Johnson. So you down to do some. A little bit of everything.

[Pat O'Keefe]

I think it's worth listening to that.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. So we'll get into down.

[Peter]

We'll do a little bit of everything after 6 o'. Clock. But one of the things we've been talking about all the day long with regard to the Knicks is the fact that we won't see Mitchell Robinson today. We're not sure if we're going to see Cat Josh Hart's obviously not well, but do you think that we are getting a message from head coach Mike Brown early on about things being different with regard to resting players and things of that nature? Because it's opening night and it appears at least that there may be a bit of resting?

[Pat O'Keefe]

Yeah, I don't think it's intentional.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Pat O'Keefe]

I think Hart is back, is bothering him. We obviously know that Mitchell Robinson has injury issues and a history there, and Kat does, too. I think what we're. What we're seeing is what we kind of expected, that things overall are going to be different this year. You know, the offense is supposed to be different. More ball movement, the usage of the bench is supposed to be different. Use those guys more often. Don't rely so heavily upon the starters. And if a guy's like 75%, maybe we give him a day, so he's better off for the long haul. And I'm not sitting here today saying that this is the right approach and last year was the wrong approach. Last year's approach was pretty good. It got him to the Eastern Conference finals. But clearly management wanted a different approach, and I think this is all part of that.

[Peter]

It's funny you say that because, you know, we just had John Starks on, and I think if anyone out there listening or watching us on YouTube was paying attention, you read between the lines. You know, Starks is either just a company man and very much going with what the Knicks are going with or how I took it. He seemed to be very on board with this change. He seemed to be very excited about the prospect of maybe some rest, certainly for Brunson not having to give Brunson 42 minutes a night, whatever it may be. And also the offense, because that offense being different and there being more ball movement combined with the idea of a little bit of rest really affects no one more in both cases than Jalen Brunson, because obviously Brunson plays so much. But also, Pat, I felt like in a lot of those Pacer games in the. In the conference finals, that didn't go well. It just felt like is the only play we have. Remember that you and I are close to the same age.

[Pat O'Keefe]

Remember the exact same age.

[Peter]

46.

[Don Hahn]

There you go.

[Peter]

Remember the classic Fresh Prince episode when. When the. The only play they had was pass the ball to Will?

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter]

You remember that?

[Don Hahn]

I do.

[Peter]

It sort of felt like at times, give the ball to Jalen was kind of everything. And you're like, where are the shots coming from? I don't. I don't see where we're gonna get the shots from. So do you expect to see sort of potentially an even rejuvenated Jalen Brunson without having to have that much of the load on his back, hopefully assuming things go to plan?

[Pat O'Keefe]

And one of the questions I've heard is that how is he going to adapt to that? I don't think that's an issue at all. Like, is he going to not like having the ball in his hands as much? I don't think that's a problem at all. Will it take some getting used to? Yeah, I do. So maybe we'll see some growing pains in this new system the first couple of months of the regular season, but let's look at the Eastern Conference for.

[Don Hahn]

What it is, right?

[Pat O'Keefe]

The top two teams in the last couple of years, the Pacers and the Celtics, they have key injuries. They've taken a huge step back. It's the Knicks, it's the Cavs. The Knicks do have some wiggle room in the regular season to have some growing pains to ease off the gas a little bit with the bigger picture in mind. And you're absolutely right. It wasn't just the Pacer series. It was even that Pistons series.

[Rosenberg]

Oh yeah.

[Pat O'Keefe]

Which was a rock fight a lot. There were some games where you had four guys kind of standing around and Brunson pounding it at the top of the arc. Now, more often than not, it worked. Sometimes it didn't. But what we, what they want to see and what I would like to see is, you know, more freedom of movement, more ball movement. You have Bridges who could be a 20 point a game scorer. Obviously Cat is one of the best big man scorers in the NBA. OG Anunobi is coming off his best offensive NBA year. These are all guys that can do it under the right circumstances.

[Peter]

And I'm glad you mentioned those names. We haven't talked about them enough today. I think we should be realistic here. If the Knicks are going to win a championship, not just be in the, in the, in the middle of the pack. They're going to compete and for, and possibly win a championship. It's going to come from OG Anunoby being not only offensively productive but being available. Right. They are a better team when you just, you talk about a stat backing it up. Look at the record when OG is playing for this team, they play exceptionally well. So that's of critical importance. And also, you know, beyond OG Anunoby, Mikhail Bridges has to be Mikel Bridges. He left a great taste in our mouth when the season ended because of those stops in the Boston series and everyone, oh my God, it was worth trading 19 players for Mikhail Bridges. But the fact of the matter is, Pat, during the regular season last year, offensively, he wasn't the player you thought you were going to get. I really think if they're going to compete for a title, Mikhail Bridges has to be the guy that he was in Brooklyn.

[Rosenberg]

It's a great point.

[Pat O'Keefe]

He, he's the one guy who took a step back, especially offensively last year. There were stretches, but for the most part his season in totality, he took a step back offensively and he had brilliant individual moments defensively. Those two steals against Boston that you mentioned, he had a block shot at the end of a game against that Nets early in the season. He had won against the Bulls. That saved the game in the middle of the season. But I think overall his defense probably wasn't as good as it usually is because he was lacking some confidence from the offensive. And I think that's like one A like Brunson's going to be fine. Cat's going to be fine. Anunoby's Anunoby. I think one A for Mike Brown to take this team to the next level is to get Bridges back to who the guy was that the knicks brought in 15 months ago.

[Don Hahn]

Go thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don, Alan and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.