Hour 3: Jordan Raanan & Damien Woody

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 3: Jordan Raanan & Damien Woody

ESPN New York | September 11, 2025 | Hour 3

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Episode Overview

This hour dives deep into the New York Giants' ongoing identity crisis and future prospects with Giants reporter and author Jordan Raanan, whose new book "The Franchise: How the Giants Became the Giants" is out, and offers expert analysis from former NFL lineman Damien Woody. The hosts—Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, and Don La Greca—mix insider knowledge, sharp humor, and passionate sports talk, shifting from Giants nostalgia to forward-looking questions about the team, player legacies, coaching philosophies, and pivotal roster decisions. The discussion also covers NFL trends, the state of the New York Jets, and closing game picks.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Giants’ Lost Standard and Jordan Raanan’s New Book

[03:08–07:37]

• Giants Identity: From Glory Days to Present

  • Raanan describes writing his new Giants franchise history, initially intending to cover the "Odell Era," but realizing the most compelling stories stop at 2011.
    • "Once we had those five, like, sections and all those chapters, they're like, you know what? I don't think, like, the Odell era kind of even fits anymore. So, like, we're just going to end it at like 2011." (Jordan Raanan, 03:31)
  • Discussion on Victor Cruz as the "last great homegrown Giant," given Odell Beckham Jr.'s short tenure and lack of playoff success.

• The Giants’ Standard Has Changed

  • Coughlin vs. Dable:
    • Raanan notes Tom Coughlin had to "grovel" to keep his job after going 8-8 and making the playoffs. Contrast that with retaining Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen after a 3-14 season, reflecting a lowered expectation.
      • "The Giants just went 3, 14. They retained the coach and general manager. They just went 3 and 14... That was off of 8 and 8 and a playoff, and a playoff appearance. This is 3 and 14. And you’re right, the standard has changed dramatically." (Jordan Raanan, 05:49)

• Giants Fan Frustrations and Culture Shift

  • La Greca and Rosenberg lament that the franchise feels rudderless, the old standards and expectations lost post-Coughlin.

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2. Giants Player Legacy Discussions

[07:37–09:48]

• Saquon Barkley’s Potential Legacy
  • Will Saquon be remembered as a Giant or an Eagle if he has more success in Philadelphia?
    • "If he plays even four years with the Eagles and has that year last year on his resume, like the six with the Giants is just going to be, you know, a little like... an epilogue basically." (Jordan Raanan, 08:20)
  • Lack of current or recent Giants stars highlighted by their absence from NFLPA's top jersey sales (except rookie Malik Nabers, their only entry).

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3. The Quarterback Quandary—When to Play Jackson Dart?

[09:51–22:09]

• Should the Giants Start Rookie QB Jackson Dart Soon?

  • Consensus: Don’t rush Dart; protect him from a broken O-line and especially wait for LT Andrew Thomas to return from injury.
    • "You can’t put the kid out there… You can’t throw him out there and do the baptism by fire thing because it could end up ruining what you think you might have." (Peter Rosenberg, 10:10)

• Andrew Thomas Injury Update

  • Raanan isn’t optimistic for Thomas’ imminent return. His complicated Lisfranc injury and multiple surgeries may sideline him past Week 2.
    • "It doesn’t look like Andrew Thomas is going to play this week.… This is a pretty serious injury from everything you hear." (Jordan Raanan, 10:56)

• Malik Nabers & Locker Room Culture

  • Nabers already wields big influence in only his second year, having input on free agent QB selection.
    • "They asked him for input on what quarterbacks they were going to get in free agency. Like… I think it’s more just Dable and the Giants, just trying to make him feel like he’s involved." (Jordan Raanan, 13:39)

• Brian Dable’s Coaching Shift

  • Dable’s style has softened, trying to avoid problems previous coaches faced with locker room leadership voting them out.
    • "Dable is buddy-buddy with players… but the power they’ve kind of given Malik Nabers already, like in his second year, is telling." (Jordan Raanan, 13:21)

• When Will Dart Start?

  • No clear timeline—coaches want Dart to learn by shadowing Wilson and Winston. If the team continues to struggle, Monday Night vs. the Chiefs or the Saints game are speculated entry points.
    • "They already opened Pandora's box… He could come in in the middle of a game, which to me makes no sense." (Jordan Raanan, 19:15)
    • "Jackson Dart’s coming. You just... it’s gonna happen sooner than later." (Jordan Raanan, 20:33)

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4. Behind the Book: Shocking Giants History

[22:17–24:38]

• Most Surprising Story from Raanan’s Book
  • QB Jeff Hostetler claims he played the rest of the 1990 NFC Championship and won the Super Bowl with a torn ACL.
    • "He had a torn ACL, and he played through it and won the Super Bowl with a torn ACL." (Jordan Raanan, 23:38)
  • Hostetler also nearly retired after that season due to lack of opportunities and a difficult relationship with Bill Parcells.

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5. Giants and Jets O-Line and Growth (With Damien Woody)

[28:01–32:48]

• When Should Giants Start Dart?

  • Woody firmly agrees: don’t start Dart until Thomas returns. Protect rookie QBs from bad O-line hits or risk their future confidence.
    • "I probably would say no, because you, you can hurt these young guys’ confidence." (Damien Woody, 29:14)

• Blame for Giants’ O-Line Woes

  • Woody points to coaching and player development as the main problem, not lack of draft capital.
    • "It's not for a lack of resources as to why the Giants' offensive line hasn't gotten better. You gotta develop these guys." (Damien Woody, 30:47)
  • He draws on his own Jets experience: O-line success is about a blend of talent, continuity, and high-quality coaching.

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6. Jets, Chiefs, Commanders: NFL Broad Strokes

[32:48–38:50]

• Jets Offensive Identity and Week 1 Promise

  • Woody praises Jets’ commitment to Justin Fields' skill set and a powerful running attack.
    • "Isn't it amazing when a coach and a coaching staff believes in you and, and draws the offense around your skill set?" (Damien Woody, 33:14)

• Do the Chiefs Still Scare Anyone?

  • Hosts discuss whether KC is losing their edge, quoting Rob Gronkowski’s claim that teams no longer fear the Chiefs since their Super Bowl drubbing.
    • "I do think there's some merit to what Gronk said, because clearly… people... can kind of smell blood a little bit from the Chiefs." (Damien Woody, 37:49)

• Commanders on the Rise?

  • Woody says Commanders beating the Packers in Lambeau would indeed make them NFC contenders.
    • "There's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be talking about the Commanders, at minimum on the same level as the Philadelphia Eagles." (Damien Woody, 38:03)

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7. Picks & Game Preview: Packers vs. Commanders

[39:13–49:32]

• Hosts’ Picks for the Night

  • Rosenberg and McGregor take the Packers -3.5, citing Micah Parsons' dominance against Washington and the Commanders’ underwhelming Week 1.
  • Hahn picks Commanders +3.5, arguing they’ll bounce back with renewed focus and their running game is underrated.
    • "The reasons that you guys pointed out about the Commanders last week, why you don't like them this week is precisely why I like them. They were not great last week… and frankly just leveled up from whatever they used to be." (Don Hahn, 47:10)

• Entertaining banter and reminders of past picks gone wrong, culminating in all hosts getting hyped for the game and their own viewing habits.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Giants’ lowered standards:
  "You're right, the standard has changed dramatically. And I think that's what was so disappointing about this game." — Jordan Raanan [05:49]

• On Saquon Barkley’s Giants legacy:
  "It's going to be like the afterthought of the Saquon [Legacy]… like Nolan Ryan as a Met. An epilogue, basically." — Jordan Raanan & Peter Rosenberg [08:34]

• On Dable’s new coaching style:
  "He seems… a little bit neutered to me… there’s no dog for Brian Dable to kick." — Don Hahn [12:57]

• On opening Pandora’s box with Dart:
  "They already opened Pandora's box… He could come in in the middle of a game, which to me makes no sense." — Jordan Raanan [19:15]

• On Hostetler’s torn ACL Super Bowl run:
  "He had a torn ACL, and he played through it and won the Super Bowl." — Jordan Raanan [23:38]

• Damien Woody’s O-line coaching maxim:
  "You gotta look at coaching eventually. It's not for a lack of resources as to why the Giants' offensive line hasn't gotten better." — Damien Woody [30:47]

• On Commanders’ potential:
  "If Jaden Daniels and company can do the same thing in Lambeau and come away with a win, there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be talking about the Commanders on the same level as the Eagles." — Damien Woody [38:03]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:08 — Introduction of Raanan's book, Giants fading glory
• 04:38 — Victor Cruz as last great Giant and Odell era discussion
• 05:49 — Shift in Giants standards since Coughlin
• 07:37 — How will Saquon Barkley be remembered?
• 09:51 — Dart QB debate and why waiting for Thomas is crucial
• 10:56 — Andrew Thomas injury update
• 13:39 — Malik Nabers’ sudden influence in leadership
• 19:15 — The “Pandora’s Box” of making Dart the backup
• 22:17 — Jordan Raanan’s most surprising Giants story (Hostetler’s torn ACL)
• 28:01 — Damien Woody on protecting rookie QBs with bad lines
• 30:47 — Coaching and player development on O-linemen woes
• 33:14 — Jets build offense around Fields’ strengths
• 36:18 — Chiefs’ aura fading? Gronk’s "soft" comments discussed
• 38:03 — Commanders could claim NFC elite status
• 39:13 — Game picks: Packers vs. Commanders and banter ensues

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Conclusion

This fast-moving, banter-heavy hour presents a real-time snapshot of New York football angst and hope. Through candid conversation and sharp analysis, listeners are treated to behind-the-scenes stories, critical takes on Giants leadership, coaching philosophy, and what defines a player’s legacy. Woody’s practical NFL insights ground the debate, and the hosts’ game picks set the stage for an action-packed Thursday night.

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Recommended For:
Anyone seeking an unfiltered, entertaining deep dive into the current state of the Giants and Jets, with plenty of context, history, and NFL-wide perspective—whether you’re a diehard New York fan or not.

Transcript

[Jordan Renan]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Jordan Renan]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Jordan Renan]

$15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only.

[Don Hahn]

Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Jordan Renan]

See mintmobile.com on han@ Rosenberg podcast.

[Don McGregor]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Jordan Renan]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New.

[Peter Rosenberg]

York app and your smart speakers. 504 in the big city with Peter Rosen.

[Don Hahn]

You're really leaning into the big city thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And, and Don McGregor. Well, I, I love the joy he says it with.

[Don Hahn]

I know. In the big city.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In the big city.

[Don McGregor]

I'm disgusted with Rick, too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's not born.

[Don Hahn]

But. What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did Rick get over it?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, because of before or something else?

[Don McGregor]

Oh, Rick's starting to go. The whole fraud tattoo thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, you saw.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, no, that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a. You saw that too.

[Don McGregor]

Well, people are tweeting me. I did not hear. Oh, boy, that part on the show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that, that, that. Bob, we'll have, we'll have our sesh a little bit later on in the.

[Don McGregor]

Hour at some point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, we will. It is, of course, the 5 o' clock hour. We have talked plenty of baseball, but let's get in some football. Here we have Damian Woody, bottom of the alba right now in studio, sitting with us with a fresh new book.

[Jordan Renan]

Hey now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is our Giants reporter and also, by the way, pretty good, Pretty good host right on the side. Yeah, you know, just outstanding Moonlighting.

[Don Hahn]

And he's Jordan. And Jordan Renan is also developing. He's really developed a new look too, over the last.

[Jordan Renan]

You think so? Yeah. Why? Oh, I thought you're talking about the black shirt you said. I thought you were hung up on that one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I thought you were going Sebastian Maniscalco.

[Jordan Renan]

That's what I've done.

[Don Hahn]

Of course it's giving Maniscalco.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's giving Maniscalco. Yeah, well, he's given us a lot of Giants information here, first and foremost. Good to see you.

[Jordan Renan]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You are. You are now.

[Jordan Renan]

I, I hosted the show, but it was with Don and two of you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we don't like sports and you know, we really don't work that much. We take any excuse to take off.

[Don Hahn]

If you ask Dave Rotham, that's.

[Jordan Renan]

Yeah. I have a feeling this is a little dig a day.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thank God we have Dave at this station to give us content. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Otherwise none of us even like sports.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We wouldn't even know what to talk about. Not. He did.

[Jordan Renan]

He did tell Brian Dable. I mean, I guess I brought it up, but he told Brian Dable the story. And this is along lines, what you guys were saying of him and, you know, refusing to take his sick wife to the hospital.

[Don Hahn]

I saw David's face when he said it.

[Jordan Renan]

Yeah. He couldn't understand. He couldn't even comprehend that. He's like, yo, I do this for my living, for my life, for my livelihood. But what? Jesus, no, no, Dable's. Are you sure?

[Don Hahn]

I would have walked off the sideline to take care of my wife.

[Jordan Renan]

You wouldn't leave your living room.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did he not. He had say things like, we don't want fans like you. That'. That's another level we don't really want to get.

[Don Hahn]

I like the timing here, by the way, that your book.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. The Franchise.

[Don Hahn]

The Franchise. How the Giants Became the Giants. I like that it's coming out just as the Giants are forgetting how to be the Giants.

[Jordan Renan]

So, you know, ironic is great. Ironic parts. So we were writing the book originally. My plan was to have like an Odell era chapter, but it turned into essentially stories from like the super bowl years. Like 99 people want to hear about. Right. Like the good days.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jordan Renan]

And then once we had those five, because we're including the 2000 Super bowl that they made. Right. Once we had those five, like, sections and all those chapters, they're like, you know what? I don't think, like, the Odella kind of even fits anymore. So, like, we're just going to end it at like 2011.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I like that.

[Jordan Renan]

That's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, you know, but that's playing the hits. That's what you want to do. Because how do you make that comparison of like, it's like you start talking about, like, again, another unbelievable win and the Manningham catch and how it's just they beat the Patriots again. Then came Odell and oh, by the way, Tom Coughlin then went out the.

[Jordan Renan]

Door and then they fell apart. And it keeps getting worse. Yeah. It hasn't gotten better yet, by the way.

[Don Hahn]

So I like what you did, though, because in looking through the book and I just was thumbing through it, it looks like the last sort of Giant star that you focus on is a really great homegrown story. It's the Victor Cruz story. Seems to be the way you end it, which, frankly, we'll see what happens with Malik Neighbors and Dexter Lawrence and the guys who are now. But up until now, would you view it as Cruz as kind of the last great Giant to come along?

[Jordan Renan]

Yeah, I mean, because we had. I mean, Odell was. Was a great player, but it didn't last long. And it was.

[Don Hahn]

And there's no glory.

[Jordan Renan]

No, they. His one playoff appearance was a disaster.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Jordan Renan]

They showed up with their shirts off.

[Don Hahn]

And Victor was there for the two points. Forget that part.

[Jordan Renan]

Victor. You don't have to remember the end of Victor.

[Don Hahn]

Well, Victor got dragged along at this point. I think Victor was still just trying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To hang with the young guys as a story chaperone. He was, like, making sure everybody stayed in line.

[Jordan Renan]

If we really want to, you know, go through details, he might have been the one that kind of pushed him to go to. On the boat trip in the first place. I mean, it was part of the decision making. He certainly didn't say no.

[Don Hahn]

Don't love that he already had a ring.

[Jordan Renan]

Don't love that he was. He. He was not happy that year. Let's just say that at the end.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of the day, the way that everything fell apart, it really has become a thing with Giants fans and what you're seeing out of the team and the franchise and the way. Obviously the way week one looked was terrible, but it does feel like a loss of a standard that walked out the door. When TC walked out the door and refused to shake John Mara's hand. Is it that. I mean, is that too dramatic? Is that being. Is that a hyperbole to say the Giants have not had a standard since that man walked out of the building?

[Jordan Renan]

Well, I think. And as I'm doing the book, I'm thinking this because it was last. I'm finishing up at the end of last season, the giants just went 3, 14. They retained the coach and general manager. They just went 3 and 14. Okay. I write a chapter. I'm basically working on a book and writing a chapter about Tom Coughlin in 2006 into 2007. All right, so he just finished his third year. He had to go in and grovel for his job. They finished 8. 8. Made the playoffs for the second straight year. He had to go in and grovel for his job. Now fast forward, right? So that is 2007, and this is 20, 24, 25, I guess, at the point. So fast forward 17 years later, they're bringing guys back at 3 and 14 after three years. Tom Coughlin literally sat down and was telling me about how he had to have this conversation with John Mara and lay out a plan of how he was going to deal with the players. And remember, the thing was, he was too hard on the guys. They all made it his guts and he was going to change. And they kept. We kept him, which turned out to be the right decision. But that was off of 8 and 8 and a playoff, and a playoff appearance. This is 3 and 14. And you're right, the standard has changed dramatically. And I think that's what was so disappointing about this game. The first. It's one game and usually I enjoyed it. I'm sure you did. I'm sure. And I was talking about this with a couple of guys in the locker room and they were saying, like, usually you get a little grace in one game. They play terrible. They know that, but usually you get a little grace period. It takes time. You can just chalk it up. I mean, Houston Texan fans are probably upset, but they're probably like, it was the first game of the season. We'll get it together. The Giants don't get that at this point, because when you watch that game, you're like, wow, that was just an extension of last year and the year before that. It doesn't look like they fixed anything, Donnie.

[Don McGregor]

Well, because it's exactly the same thing over and over again. Lost to a divisional opponent, loss on opening day, not being able to score touchdowns. But I wanted to get back to the greatness conversation, because how is it going to ultimately history show Saquon Barkley? Because Saquon is probably going to retire still, having played more games as a Giant than an Eagle. They're just looking at the history of running backs. Is it going to be like Rosie Greer, like, Rosie Greer was a Giant for seven years, one of the great players of all time, and everybody just remembers him as a Ram. But how will history look at Saquon if he goes to the hall of Fame, if he ends up playing more games than the Giants? Like, how will history remember Saquon Barkley is a Giant?

[Jordan Renan]

Yeah, I think it's going to be like the. The afterthought of the Saquon, because, like, if he plays even four years with the Eagles and has that year, last year, on his resume, like the six with the Giants is just going to be, you know, a little like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's like Nolan Ryan is a man.

[Jordan Renan]

An epilogue, basically.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's it.

[Jordan Renan]

I mean, that's, that's all it's going to be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But if, you know, if his career gets cut short for whatever reason, injury wise, whatever like that, and the majority of his years are with the Giants, he's still more of a Giant even though he wins the Super Bowl. Right. So it really depends what happens from here.

[Jordan Renan]

I mean, as long as he plays, like, even if he just plays into next year, if he plays three years. And his best season was that one year where he won this. I mean, he played six with the Giants, but only four were healthy. So really only had four seasons anyway with the Giants. And what did he accomplish? He had a great rookie season. He had a great 20, 22. And in between, there was a lot of injuries. Yeah, he's a great player, we know that. But once you win somewhere else, like, that's where he's going to be remembered. It's sad, Don, because like they were saying before, like, who is the next great Giant? Like, we have these guys and they're just like, okay, like. And you know the funny part? The NFLPA put out a thing, and I think this tells you where the Giants are as a franchise. Where it was like the top 50 selling jerseys and memorabilia and stuff. Like, Malik Neighbors was like 20 something. I think it was like 23. Maybe he was in the teens, something like that. But he was. He was the only Giant on there, right? None of their draft picks were on there. Like, cam ward was 12. Like, the Giants didn't even have Jackson Dart or Abdul Carter on there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I was like, yeah, that might change by the end of the season.

[Jordan Renan]

Well, once Dart plays, as we know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He'S going to play. Now, that's the question everybody's asking. But before we even. We've talked about this on the show a couple of times and I'm pushing this as much as I can. The idea that as much as there is a. Obviously an outcry after one game, oh, they got to go to Dart. Now it's time to just start the club, put them out there. You've had ESPN experts all talking about it, and it's funny, they all said it and then in two days later, they're all backtracking. But I don't think you can put the kid out there, not because the team needs them. This is about the kid and the future of this kid. And if you believe he's the one, you can't rush this. You can't throw him out there and do the baptism by fire thing because it could end up ruining what you think you might have. And I don't think you can put out there until Andrew Thomas is healthy and playing regular snaps. So let's start there.

[Jordan Renan]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How close? Because anybody that wants to see dart, tell me if I'm wrong. You can't see dart until you see Thomas. Would you agree?

[Jordan Renan]

I do agree. Like, I don't think so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How far are we from Thomas?

[Jordan Renan]

Well, he didn't practice yesterday and not practicing Wednesday, which is. Which is the most important practice of the week in pads. He practiced today and he was limited. The clock is ticking. It doesn't. To me, it doesn't look like Andrew Thomas is going to play this week. That's my opinion. Like, I'd be surprised based on the way they handled this week. Like if you don't practice on Wednesday and then you're going to practice Thursday and limited and it doesn't seem like they're ramping you up to play. They're still getting him. It seems to be in shape. And he, you know, this is a pretty serious injury from everything you hear that you had. But there's different versions of Liz Frank where he had it just the, the severity of the tear. Like he had to have everything fixed, basically. And he's £300 and he's £300 and it's not. And then he had to have a second surgery, you know, somewhere along or like in March.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Usually it's like the, the cleanup or the adjustment or whatever they do with it. Right. That second surgery was clean up and.

[Jordan Renan]

With the screw, you have to take the screws out if it. Depending on how it's healing. And so look, it just doesn't look like it's going. So my understanding was the original plan. Think about it. Joe Shane stood up there and said at the beginning of training camp. And I don't begrudge him. They really thought he was trending to be back. Yeah, he's. We fully expect him to be back for week one. So the plan was to get him in healthy enough on the field for a preseason game. Once that didn't happen, that was an indicator. Okay. This is going slower than we anticipated. Now here we are where it looks like week two is going to be out the window. I don't, you know, I hope you see him soon, but I mean, who knows at this point?

[Don Hahn]

Let me, let me throw this at you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Don Hahn]

One thing we obviously observed and everyone did was Malik neighbors looking frustrated on the sideline. And what we've been talking about is that you know, Dable's whole style has changed a bit. You know, he was early on aggressive. We saw him, in my opinion at the time, too aggressive at times. With Daniel Jones, I thought there were times when he left him in games was almost like he was punishing the kid. Now it seems like there's no dog for Brian Dable to kick. You know what I mean?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don Hahn]

Daniel Jones and who else? And now he's in a position where it's like, who is there for him to get on. He seems a little, for lack of a better word, like a little bit neutered to me. What. How do you view the position of Dable? Not in terms of. We know that he's in a tough spot, but in terms of respect from the players and what he is able to do around this group. In your eyes, he's generally pretty good.

[Jordan Renan]

With that, like that stables things. He's buddy buddy with players. You know, you see him go up to him, put his arm around him all the time. Malik Neighbors, I mean, this tells you everything you need to know about what they enabled is not the right word, but the power they've kind of given Malik Neighbors already, like in his second.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Year that he can talk like that.

[Jordan Renan]

Not only can he talk like that, forget that, go back. They said they asked him for input on what quarterbacks they were going to get in free agency. Like, if you're giving. He played one season, how does he know if. If he has. I think it's more just like Dable and the Giants, just trying to make him feel like he's involved. Like, I'm sure, you know, Malik Neighbors isn't ultimately making the five. God, we'd hope not. Malik Neighbors, after one year is making the five.

[Don Hahn]

But he is arguably the most talented man who wears the uniform right now, 100%. Why that?

[Jordan Renan]

So that's why I think you see the offense.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, maybe altogether though.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it takes a lot.

[Don Hahn]

I don't know. I think. I think Neighbors is generational. I think he's like potentially an iconic player. We haven't seen it yet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He had 12 targets. He had six catches.

[Don Hahn]

No, no. I'm not saying we've seen it, but there is something that I see. My point is I see why you'd want to be nice to him.

[Jordan Renan]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

But you don't want to actually make you the decision.

[Jordan Renan]

It makes sense. I understand, bro. Brian Dable is doing and I really agree with that, you want to keep your best players close with you so that if something happens and this is this, both of Me why Joe Judge got fired. When you start going around to the players and asking him, ask them about the coach and it's the leaders you go to and they decide. They basically could decide your fate.

[Don Hahn]

But think about how insane this is. We started this conversation with you talking about Coughlin and just how ridiculous. And I remember that was the Coughlin era was when I moved to New York. Right. I moved here full time in 07.

[Jordan Renan]

Must have been hard to stomach, huh?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, it was awful.

[Jordan Renan]

It was awful.

[Don Hahn]

My niece and nephew were born the night of the Super Bowl. It was of 07. It was a nightmare. And all I remember when I used to be a listener to the Michael K Show, I just remember hearing callers and going, how did these people. I'm a Redskin fan. How do these people want their coach out?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

All this guy does is win. And it never stopped. Every time there'd be a year between Super Bowls before 2011.

[Jordan Renan]

Again, again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's got to go. He's out of touch.

[Don Hahn]

And number two, you think after number two now he's carte blanche? No, he doesn't have it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Unreal.

[Don Hahn]

And now table and it seems like has this leash. It's just. Listen, I guess the leash is probably up after this year if they don't. What is the standard then, though? What do they have to do, Jordan, to where you'd actually go, okay, he's done enough.

[Jordan Renan]

Well, they drafted a quarterback, so that changes everything, doesn't it? Yeah, I feel like the opportunity reset. Remember, John Maris stood there. Was it when they hired. I think it was when they hired Joe Shane and he said, you know, how many times have we messed up Daniel Jones, right, by switching his coordinators and switching his coaches. Well, now you just drafted a quarterback. You want to do that to your new quarterback. You want to. You want to have your new. Let's say he has any success, you wouldn't want to have to change schemes, change coaches, change coordinator.

[Damian Woody]

Right.

[Jordan Renan]

Like that's, that's where they're at. So they're. They're in this vortex, which generally is where the bad teams are.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So when's the right time? When is it going to be the time? You know, Russ looked bad. You know, I can't imagine he's going to look this bad week after week because if he does, you're going to have to do something you should have rather than later.

[Don Hahn]

But also can't imagine look that great either.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know, but they said they had a plan.

[Jordan Renan]

Why would it be good? Why would it be great? I should say, yeah, well, they said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They had a plan for Dark and they got to stick to it. In my opinion, if there is a plan, I'm sure you know it. What is it?

[Jordan Renan]

Look, they have a plan in regards to things they want to see him do behind the scenes. They want him to sit there and like the past couple weeks, he gets to see how Russell Wilson goes about working during a week, taking in a game plan, preparing for a game. So they want to see him do the same things, Right. And basically mirror what Russell Wilson's doing. Take input from Jameis Winston to the point where they feel like, okay, we feel like he can go into a game and we can give him the game plan and then the specific plays that we, you know, we make for that week and that he has a system and a way about him where he can then be successful. So when that is, I don't know specifically. I don't think they know specifically because remember Buffalo Josh Allen, he was in, in the first half of the first game because they're, you know, Nathan Peterman was there playing and got injured. Kafka was working with Patrick Mahomes. He saw him sit the whole year, basically his first year. So I think they're open to different scenarios, but when the time comes where the pressure is on that they need to win games or at least produce better results, like if they get blown out this week and their offense looks terrible, I wouldn't be surprised. This is my opinion.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Monday night against the Chiefs.

[Jordan Renan]

Monday night against the Chiefs.

[Don McGregor]

That's the problem, Jordan, is there's really no soft landing. You could say it's the Saints game, but the Saints game is before a Thursday night game against the Eagles.

[Jordan Renan]

Right. And they play Eagles two times in three weeks. Right.

[Don McGregor]

You don't want to put the kid.

[Don Hahn]

In a situation where even if he.

[Don McGregor]

Does well, you got a short turnaround. Have to play on a Thursday against the defending super bowl champion. There's no soft area to do it. And as far as winning games, I mean, like you said, if they don't, if they can't score against the Cowboys defense and it looks bad again, then they're not going to turn it around. They're not going to be able to win enough games.

[Jordan Renan]

What happens in Monday night if that happens? Like, what kind of reaction are they going to get when they step on the field with Russell Wilson and an offensive couldn't score in the first two.

[Don McGregor]

Games, likely is an 02 chief team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jordan, you can't care right now about boos. You Got to care about making sure that this guy that you think is the future quarterback for you goes in in the right situation. Because if you put him in and then he lays an egg because he's overwhelmed, then what? Alan, you can't worry about.

[Jordan Renan]

Just think about what they already did. They already opened Pandora's box. If Russell Wilson stepped on an offensive lineman's foot against the Commanders, that was my start. Would have come in in the middle of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Donnie. You said it. Donnie would have said your first game.

[Jordan Renan]

They already opened Pandora's box. They already told you. They think he's basically ready to go in and play Donnie. You think about that. He could come in in the middle of a game, which to me makes no sense.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, my God.

[Jordan Renan]

But they're already open to that. Possible. He's the backup. He's the backup again this week.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because, you know, I know you know, you hear all this stuff, but I heard going into week one, they had some packages for. For dart definitely come in.

[Jordan Renan]

They definitely did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they just didn't do it. They didn't go to it.

[Jordan Renan]

It was more like. I thought it wasn't like. It wasn't like, full, like, here we're going in and do a drive.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Throw them in. Like, again, when they were only 2 yardage. I thought they were gonna go to him there. Yeah, I did, too, because Russ couldn't make that turn. You saw that. That bootleg, right. And then all of a sudden, he didn't decide not to run. He got. He got tackled instead of just run to the pylon.

[Jordan Renan]

I know that everybody thinks even that Mark. They were trying to throw the offensive lineman on the first play. I think they were trying to steal a touchdown from Russ there. Yes, the first one. The first goal line play.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He didn't look committed, and they just. Yeah, he wasn't. He did not look.

[Jordan Renan]

He. The funny part is, in practice, those same plays, and we were sitting there all summer saying, those same plays where Russell got knocked out. You're talking about on. When he ran it near the goal line and he actually got hit. He fumbled, actually, on one of those plays. Remember, he tried to run it and he actually got hit.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, yeah, there was that one in practice.

[Jordan Renan]

You see him do those same runs and he runs in and he celebrates and he, you know, scores. Because you can't touch the quarterback and I can't. A bunch of us kept sitting there saying, he's going to get killed in the games when he tried. Like, that's not going to happen in the game like that. He's not wearing.

[Don Hahn]

Frankie Luvu's not running.

[Jordan Renan]

You're not running a red jersey. He's not wearing a red jersey in the game where they're not allowed to touch him. And then he celebrated and you know, like. And we're like, that's not gonna happen. And you saw it. It literally played out in front of your eyes. And look, Jackson darts coming. You just. And it's gonna happen sooner than that.

[Don Hahn]

And it'll be. It'll be. There won't be a Winston in between. It'll just be straight to Jackson.

[Jordan Renan]

If there was going to be a Winston in between, don't you. I would have thought he would pin the backup. Right. And if you put a guy in the middle of the game, he's already been there. He's already. He's already had success in league.

[Don McGregor]

You're not.

[Jordan Renan]

You're not. You're obviously not worried about throwing Jackson Dart in a tough situation.

[Don Hahn]

That's what's so weird to me, though. And that's the part I think is frankly, kind of, if you're going to have. Dart's not ready to be the starter. Right. I know you want him to be on headset. I know you want him to get the reps, the first team reps, but if he's not ready to be your starter, I wouldn't want him have to get thrown in a game. If Russell gets hurt because he's old, he could get hurt. I would think. Oh, wait, so the way you want to start the game is they're in Dallas for whatever reason, they're getting pounded early on, and everything's. It's a commotion. And now all of a sudden, Dart starting his career down, 17 nothing the second quarter. That's how you want to start? I'd rather have Winston for that.

[Jordan Renan]

Exactly. That's why, to me, they opened up Pandora's box by putting him as the backup the last game. I honestly didn't think they were going to do it. And we, you know, you saw the signs, and I was like, they can't be. They can't be really thinking of doing that. Right. But the rule of this regime, and I say it all the time, and when I'm talking to people, it's like, you can't apply logic sometimes. Like, you just got to be open to everything. Like, anything's on board.

[Don McGregor]

We're too close to dinner to continue this conversation, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna close it out with one that throws me back to Good times.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Don McGregor]

You know, I'm a diehard Giant fan. You know, I know the history.

[Jordan Renan]

Mm.

[Don McGregor]

When I read this book, will there be a moment I'll write, raise my eyebrows and go, wow, I didn't know that.

[Jordan Renan]

Well, I think the one thing, or.

[Don McGregor]

Did you want to give away? I don't want.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, no, no, no.

[Jordan Renan]

I put. I put an excerpt out the other day, and I think this is. This, to me, was the most surprising thing I heard. And I think you kind of. I think you'll kind of be like, yeah, I guess I kind of realized that. But Jeff Hostettler, remember that 90 NFC championship game? He gets hit by Jim Burt, right? He magically gets up. He says, like, sort of. You know, his story is divine intervention, basically, on the field. He gets up, he comes back in, right. Matt Kavanaugh played a few snaps. Don't. They said he was basically like. You could tell in the huddle. Like, Matt Kavanaugh was shaking in the huddle. They were like, we need to get Hostetler back in real quick. Is that Jeff Hosteller claims that he played that rest of that game and then won the super bowl with a torn acl. And then to this day, he goes to the doctor, and when they check his knee and when he gets an MRI, they're like, you know, your ACL's torn. And he's like, yeah, I know.

[Don McGregor]

The Raiders didn't give him an exam before they signed him.

[Jordan Renan]

That's what I mean. The Raiders without the Redskins. He had had a bunch of injury problems after that. That's his story, Don.

[Damian Woody]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's.

[Jordan Renan]

He had a torn acl, and he played through it and won the super bowl with a torn ACL.

[Don McGregor]

I did an interview with LT, like, 10 years ago where he said in the interview that they don't win the Super Bowl, Phil Sims doesn't get hurt. He believed that Jeff Hostetler was a better quarterback, a stronger arm, he really more mobile. That he felt that if Phil didn't get hurt against the Bills, they would not have won the Super Bowl.

[Jordan Renan]

Hosteller also claims he was going to retire that offseason. Well, he had been there forever because he was fighting with them. First of all, him and parcels. I mean, that relationship was bad. And Hosteller, they were basically putting him at gunner on special teams. He was trying to get anything to get on the field. That's how Bailey wanted to get on the field. He tried to get traded, like he said, like, 20 times. And the Giants kept saying, no, no, no. And if that didn't happen that season, he says he had already told his wife he was going to go home the way they were going to go home to West Virginia, and he was going to find something else to do. He was done with football.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Amazing. One of the many stories in the franchise. A curated history of Big Blue Jordan Renan.

[Don Hahn]

I love him.

[Don McGregor]

He should replace one of the guys on the morning show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I wonder who that is. Well, more football conversation coming up.

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Jordan Renan]

Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want.

[Jordan Renan]

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. Good stuff from Jordan Renan.

[Don Hahn]

I just wish we had more guests to talk about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He brought books, Donnie.

[Don Hahn]

Of course he did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But funny, he only brought two.

[Damian Woody]

Really?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that true? That's a shame. Don.

[Don Hahn]

Don't do it, by the way. It's not true. And, Don, I'm not gonna play the game because I think you're a moment away from a powder keg situation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It really does feel like Don is on edge. Right?

[Don Hahn]

He brought you the book. It's sitting right here.

[Don McGregor]

I'm really disgusted.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Messing with.

[Don Hahn]

And by the way, you can have my copy as well, rather than me burn it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How dare you? Hey, what is that? Why don't you just give yours to Dave?

[Don Hahn]

Dave Rothenberg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's a big Giants fan.

[Don Hahn]

Should I sign it to him? Enjoy. Yeah, you big fat fraud.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did Don just say, give him the book with vessel? Yeah.

[Don McGregor]

Move it up for him so he.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, we get it. You don't have to describe it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Give him a box and tissues.

[Don Hahn]

No, no, guys. Why, why? Why? Always one step too far.

[Damian Woody]

What did I do? No, because.

[Don McGregor]

Because we're done with the 1, 2, 3.

[Damian Woody]

Let's be good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, we're not. We're not here to be good. You've already. You've already done good. We want to take it.

[Jordan Renan]

We want to be great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We want to be great. Can't be great if you don't take.

[Don Hahn]

How about this? Speaking of tissues and lotion, is D. Wood here?

[Damian Woody]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That is no way to introduce Damien Woody, right? What? I had nothing to do with it, man.

[Damian Woody]

It's all good, brother. What's going on, everybody?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Good to have you. Hey, before we. There's a lot to get. Jets. We were just talking Giants with Jordan Renan, so. Because you know this better than anybody, Andrew Thomas did not participate yesterday in practice in pads. He kind of went through some things. Today. He's got the lis Frank injury. We're now in week two. Like you, you can't possibly rush this player. But how important is he to the idea of eventually moving on The Jackson dart? Would you play dart before Thomas is available?

[Damian Woody]

Oh, man. I will have to think long and hard about that. Well, I probably. You know, I probably would say no, because you Know you, You can hurt these, these young, these young guys. Confidence, you know, with a lot of hits. And that's the last thing you want with Jackson Dart. I know he's athletic. He was a playmaker in the SEC at Ole Miss. But, you know, this is National Football League. Every week you're going to face, you know, a pretty, pretty damn good pass rush. So I would think long and hard about, you know, about that putting them in before Andrew Thomas comes back.

[Don McGregor]

I don't know how detailed you watched every play of Giants commanders, and if you did, God bless you. But were all their problems because of the left tackle or was it other areas of the offensive line that even if Thomas was there, the result might.

[Jordan Renan]

Have been the same?

[Damian Woody]

No, listen, listen. Andrew Thomas is definitely one of the better tackles in the game. But, but like, the Giants have been going at this office line for years now. Years we've been talking about this, this offensive line. They've thrown draft picks at it. They, you know, free agency. And it still hasn't. It hasn't like, improved. And so for me, I'm looking at coaching, like, how are you developing these guys? How are you coaching these guys up? Because it's not for a lack of resources as to why the Giants offensive line hasn't gotten better. You gotta develop these guys. And that's what's lacking with the Giants offensive line right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's amazing. I'm sorry, Peter, but because we said this yesterday, didn't we, earlier this week? We said this and D. Wood played the position. You know it. We always blame the player, don't we? But how many years are you going to draft in the top 10, an offensive lineman? And then year after year say, well, that guy sucks. Well, he's not good. They call these guys. Busts D. Wood saying that. You got to look at coaching eventually. It's funny thing is though, it's been different coaches from Eric Flowers to Evan Neal and everything going forward, it's amazing. But it just feels like they're the one franchise that just can never get it right, even when they are drafting in the top 10.

[Damian Woody]

Yeah, I mean, listen, like, I can still remember when the Giants had a dominant offensive line, you know, with those two super bowl runs that the Giants have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a long time ago.

[Damian Woody]

Yeah, I mean, it is a long time ago now, but, you know, that's what the Giants used to be known for. Defense, physical player from the offensive line. But it seemed like it's, It's. It's a long ways away from that. From those former days.

[Don McGregor]

Well, I mean you played offensive line. You played on an offensive line that went to back to back championship games. I remember you telling me you would be able to whisper to the defensive end the play and still be able to execute it because that's how good you were. Were you that good because you had five excellent offensive lineman or was it coaching?

[Damian Woody]

It was both. I mean, Don, like think about this. When I played with the jets, like we had so much continuity, we barely missed any games. And so when you combine five good guys that play together every game with some of the best coaching in the history of the National Football League and Bill Callahan, that's why we were able to play at such a high level. And so, you know, I've always said, man, outside of head coach, in my opinion offensive line coach is the most important position because you got to get five guys to play as one. Very hard to do in the National Football League.

[Don Hahn]

All right, let's, let's, let's talk Jets. There was, there was some fun stuff last week, Damian. I mean like I looked up and saw the jets in the 30s and thought I was, I was having a stroke. I didn't know what was happening. What did you see that you liked from this team? And do you think it was a legit reason for optimism? Obviously we don't know what the Pittsburgh Steelers defense is quite yet.

[Damian Woody]

Oh, absolutely. Here's a couple things that really stood out to me. Number one, and this actually goes back to the off season, is that, isn't it amazing when a coach and a coaching staff believes in you and, and draws the offense around your skill set? Isn't that amazing how things can play out? Because that's exactly what Aaron, Glenn, Tanner Engstrom have done with Justin Fields. Okay? They embraced him, they gave him full confidence and they designed the offense around his skill set. And so that's what we saw on Sunday against the Pittsburgh Steelers. We saw great offensive line play, three headed, monster attack in the backfield. Garrett Wilson got involved. So I think this is here to stay. This is the jets identity. They want to run the football and they want to be smart. As far as the passing game is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Concerned, what we saw from the Bills defense against the Ravens, and I know the Bills had that unbelievable comeback, but am I crazy to think that the jets could have, could make this a game against that Bill's defense because of what you just said, their offensive line, their running game.

[Damian Woody]

Absolutely. I mean the jets have always played the Bills tough, particularly in MetLife Stadium. And everyone saw how The Baltimore Ravens ran up and down the field. Now, I know people say, well, that's Baltimore. Baltimore is a different animal. Well, guess what, the jets got a pretty damn good offensive line and they got some really good backs and they got a very athletic quarterback. And so, I mean, the Buffalo Bills are going to be seeing a version of that come Sunday. I've always said when a team shows you on tape that they're vulnerable, you come right back at it until they saw. Until they show you they've solved the problem. So I think there's going to be some plays in there from Baltimore that the jets are going to feature on Sunday to see if the Bills have solved the problem.

[Don McGregor]

We keep waiting for the demise of the Chiefs. They got blown out in the super bowl, didn't look great in Brazil. Can they still win a Super bowl? Or this? Finally, the door swings open for somebody else in the afc.

[Damian Woody]

Well, I've said this year will be the hardest journey for the Chiefs if they're going to get back to the super bowl because the division has gotten so much better. And case in point, you know, last Friday in Brazil, the Chargers, the Charger look damn good. They got a really good quarterback. Jim Harbaugh. That team is very well coached. And the one thing that really stuck out about the Chiefs is, man, they just not explosive on offense. I know Xavier Worthy got hurt and all of that, but it is just a struggle offensively for the Kansas City Chiefs. Now, we know they have 15 at the quarterback position and he's all world, but if you can't generate explosive plays, it's just too hard to really score consistently in a national football league.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, Rasheed Rice as well. Did you see what Gronk said? Like that what happened with the Chiefs is the first time they got punched in the mouth and he said that. You see how they respond. And now, you know, if you punch them in the mouth, maybe they won't respond. Maybe they've reached that point where they've. That. That core has kind of won so much that have they gotten soft? You know, like, it's an interesting point. I don't remember the Patriots ever getting like that when they were. I mean, they had their, their long dynastic run. They always seem to just have an edge about them. But this Chiefs team, from what Gronk said, that's, That's a damning statement to make about a team that's won multiple championships in a small period of time.

[Damian Woody]

Yeah, listen, I'm not going to call the Kansas City Chiefs soft, but Soft. But I do think there's. There's some merit to what Gronk said, because clearly, I mean, we saw. I mean, we saw the Philadelphia Eagles land blow after blow after blow against that Kansas City Chiefs offense. And, you know, sometimes it takes you a while to kind of catch your bearings, and that's what we're. I think that's what we're seeing with the Kansas City Chiefs. I think a lot of teams out here don't respect the Chiefs anymore like that after what they saw in the Sioux bowl. And now the charges come out on a neutral field and handle business. It's going to be. This is going to be a challenge for the Kansas City Chiefs because people, quite honestly, like, they can kind of smell blood a little bit from the cheeks.

[Don Hahn]

Is it reasonable for me, Damian, to think that if my commanders go into Lambeau and win tonight, that we could have a conversation about them being right there as the toast of the nfc?

[Damian Woody]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think this will be a great test for the Washington commanders. You know, they ran the ball. You know, that Giants defense that we. That we all thought was just, you know, you know, 85 bears light version, they got ran over for like, 220 yards by the Washington commanders. I think this Green Bay defense is legit. It's real. They got playmakers on all three levels. We saw how they got after Detroit. Now, if Jaden Daniels and company can do the same thing in Lambo and come away to win, there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be talking about the commanders, at minimum on the same level as the Philadelphia Eagles.

[Don Hahn]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You just.

[Don Hahn]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Peter just had movement.

[Don Hahn]

I'm going to sit down.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Talk about.

[Don Hahn]

I don't want to be standing right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Peter's going to need a moment. He would. Great stuff, my man. Good to talk to you. We'll catch up soon.

[Damian Woody]

All right, Take it easy, guys.

[Don Hahn]

Let him in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow. That was everything you wanted to hear. Now what we need to hear is before we get to any. On top of the hour, do we all have picks to make tonight? Are we all in or not?

[Don McGregor]

Sounds like it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

My hand is raised. Anyone else?

[Damian Woody]

I'm in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Want to jump in?

[Jordan Renan]

I'm in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay. Rosenberg's Don. Three for three.

[Don McGregor]

Let's.

[Damian Woody]

Let's.

[Don McGregor]

Well, I don't know what the analogy is more Thelma and Louise had somebody.

[Jordan Renan]

That they edited out.

[Don McGregor]

If they had a Jar Jar Binks that they took out of the movie.

[Don Hahn]

Then now Alan's Jar Jar Binks. What you're saying?

[Don McGregor]

No, it's whether I'm going to be Jar Jar.

[Don Hahn]

Are you going to be Jar Jar or not?

[Jordan Renan]

All right, we'll see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We're going to find out. So coming up, we'll make a couple of picks. We do have ENN top of the hour, so stay with us. Of course, your call is a part of the story as well. 800 now a 93776. But hey, everybody, get ready for a new Monday Night Football experience. The ESPN New York Couchcast. The jets take on the Dolphins Week 4 divisional matchup. And you can settle in on the couch. You join us on this alt cast that we're going to do with all your favorite ESP New York personalities that give us instant. We're going to give you instant reactions, unfiltered commentary behind the mic banter. You know, it's going to get crazy. And think about it. Don legreca with Dpietro right in front of him. Any more confrontations, we shall see. You can stream this. You can stream this live on our YouTube page. Yeah. Did you know we have a YouTube page? We actually do. You could stream it live there. From kickoff to final whistle. You can grab your snacks and watch the game with us. It's the ESP New York Couchcast presented by Calandra's Bakery, driven by the All American Ford Auto Group. Remember, they did a Mustang for Rick and I back in the day. Love those guys. All American Ford Auto Group, the number one Ford auto group in the tri state area. By the way, if you were wondering, shop all american autogroup.com so the All Cast is Monday, September 29th starting at 7pm on the ESP New York YouTube channel. So subscribe to it now and we'll see you then.

[Jordan Renan]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. At New Balance, we believe if you run, you're a runner.

[Don Hahn]

However you choose to do it.

[Jordan Renan]

Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way. And that's what running is all about. Run your [e-mail] running.

[Don Hahn]

Race the rudders.

[Damian Woody]

Raise the sails.

[Jordan Renan]

Raise the sails.

[Don Hahn]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[Jordan Renan]

Over.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Roger. Wait, is that an enterprise sales Solution.

[Jordan Renan]

Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors.

[Don McGregor]

With LinkedIn ads, you can target the.

[Jordan Renan]

Right people by industry, job title and more.

[Don McGregor]

Start converting your B2B audience today.

[Jordan Renan]

Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started [e-mail] campaign terms and conditions apply. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want.

[Jordan Renan]

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Game time is brought to you by Tullimore. Do Irish whiskey because Don the Greco when it's game time, it's time.

[Don Hahn]

It's dolly time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's close out their series, thankfully with the Phillies. The coverage begins immediately following us right here on 880 at 6:35. Note the start time. Yankees Tigers. Talk about another series that is whimpering to its end. 7:05 is the first pitch. They open the gates early. The President's gonna be there. Most people were smart enough to get there early. But there is a lot of traffic of course going to be around the stadium. Extra security as well to get in. So if you're on your way, hang in there and enjoy the game. The Liberty. Visit the sky at 8. And we do have Thursday night football commies in the pack tonight. We're gonna discuss, we're gonna discuss whether or not we're gonna. We're gonna take some threes on this one. Telemardu. The original triple distilled, triple blended, triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Telemardu or try the new Telemurdu. Honey, during today's action glasses up to enjoying Tullamore do responsibly. So because I mean I'm the one that started the conversation so I'll be the one to say it. I. This is my three point game.

[Don McGregor]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is my three point pick and I have right now. Now Anthony, you can update for me if anything's changed, but I believe it is. The pack are laying three and a half. Yes. Okay. I am going to take the Packers. Now I'm going to explain why Washington. Well, you know what?

[Don Hahn]

I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what?

[Jordan Renan]

I'm fair.

[Don Hahn]

I looked up. I got all the stats.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know it's funny.

[Don Hahn]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's very fitting of you. That actually, that, that, that's. That's very on brand.

[Don Hahn]

You mean because of the whole thing you did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because you looked very comfortable for you. As if that's what you really do. Honestly. Honestly.

[Don Hahn]

Go ahead.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I watched the game, as you like to say. I watched the games, yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Why'd you watch the game?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Commanders didn't look great against the Giants. Did not look great.

[Don Hahn]

They didn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You again have all the problems you want with the pick and I understand why you would have that. I'm just telling you biased. So I don't like the way they looked in week one. Your own quarterback admitted that they did not look good, did not play well. They were not happy with that game whatsoever. Michael Parsons, by the way, have you looked at him historically against your franchise? You know what he was trying to do. So last last season he had two sacks in one game and two and a half sacks in the other game. He is trying to do something that hasn't been done since Lawrence Taylor. Three straight games against the Commanders Redskins with multiple sacks.

[Don Hahn]

He's only played the Commanders but keep going.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay either way because Lawrence Taylor played against the Redskins.

[Don Hahn]

Fair point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So that's how long it's been. Nobody's done that. So he's trying to do that. And it just. To me it just feels like one of these games that's probably going to be a good game. Really good game. Parsons does though eat against your team. 10 and a half sacks career against Washington and he's starting to feel himself this. I'm not saying it's gonna be a blood. I think it's gonna be a really entertaining game. But I will take the packers and I will lay the three and a half and that's my three.

[Don Hahn]

Walk a man like a man.

[Damian Woody]

Don.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Anyone else want to the pool you win?

[Don McGregor]

Well, I gotta say because Allen had a lot of things that I was going to hit on. But I actually love the packers at four and a half and now it's three and a half. So why would I, why would I back down when I'm getting the extra points? So I am going to agree with Allen as my three point play as well because yeah, I didn't.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't.

[Don McGregor]

Love what I saw. You know you had a chance to put a team away and didn't. And until you know get to late in the fourth quarter when they finally did because the Giants are awful. There's a Packer team in Lambeau. It's a tough spot. I like Washington.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don McGregor]

And I think they're going to be a really, really good team. But I'm going to take the packers as well. And, and because it's Thursday, it's also three.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I'm not. Listen, let's Commanders.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's my team yeah, right. Exactly. You had to see the face he made while doing it though.

[Jordan Renan]

Really like, it really felt like there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was a time in his life that that's. That was his go to.

[Don Hahn]

So I'd like to let me be clear and unequivocal. The reasons that you guys pointed out about the Commanders last week, why you don't like them this week is precisely why I like them.

[Jordan Renan]

Oh, I.

[Don Hahn]

They were not great last week.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don Hahn]

And they were not happy after the game. They were soundly angry in the locker room after their performance. Show me a team that plays against a team who they always play oddly close with. We know that the Giants commanders thing is weird. Show me a team who plays a game like that, plays poorly, is unhappy with it and wins by two touchdowns. And I see a team that is taking things very seriously and is frankly just leveled up from whatever they used to be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't disagree with any of that.

[Don Hahn]

I disagree wholeheartedly with what we heard earlier this week from Booger McFarlane. The commanders only have one way to win. I think the. I think the Washington running attack is going to surprise a lot of people this year.

[Jordan Renan]

You got.

[Don Hahn]

You guys said it's going to be a close game. I think it will be a very close game. That hook is pivotal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It is true.

[Don Hahn]

And if this game is close late, I'll go as far as saying there is no one in this league that I put much ahead of number five on Washington late in the game with the ball in his hands. Give me Washington, give me the three and a half points. I'll heartily take it and I'll put 1, 2, 3 points on my commies. And by the way, big risk. I got nothing last week. So I'm digging a hole today with my college.

[Jordan Renan]

Yeah, the Bear.

[Don McGregor]

We didn't get a chance to talk about there. The Bears, they killed you.

[Don Hahn]

Oh my. They killed me. I was looking so good to have my two and then they just completely fall apart on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Turn the TV off and hope it. Hope the score stayed that way second.

[Don Hahn]

Week in a row. By the way, betting against the packers, they could really make me rue the day. A team that I bet with a lot and here I am betting it. I think the packers are a really good team. I think this is a really close field goal kind of game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think you're right about the hook. It is a scary hook.

[Don Hahn]

It's a scary hook.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a scary hook.

[Don Hahn]

And by the way, I'm not ruling out is there a world in which it's a Pretty good game. We still lose by four or seven. Absolutely.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of course.

[Don Hahn]

But I like us to win outright. I think we're like plus 150 or plus 160. I like this. This game, to me could feel like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Doesn't scare you.

[Don Hahn]

He always does. But, I mean, let's. We can't act like the kid hasn't played him before. And guess what? Now the kid has Larry Tunsil there to watch his back.

[Jordan Renan]

So big one.

[Don Hahn]

I like that part of it. And. And also I think this game could feel much like Washington against Cincinnati last year on Monday Night Football. Huge spot, this team. This version of the Commanders. Knock on wood. They've been big in the huge spots, so let's see what they do.

[Jordan Renan]

Man.

[Don Hahn]

Wow. We got juice tonight, baby.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All of us. We're all in. So Peter's going to watch that main screen while Don and I just devour the baseball and hate ourselves for it.

[Don Hahn]

No. By the way, you guys may not admit it. I believe the picks may influence this so much that at 8:20, you're there by kickoff.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, you're there by kickoff. The score will dictate which way I'm going to. But we all Don. I know. We're not surprised Peter won't be consuming the baseball tonight. Like, we will have to carry him tomorrow on the baseball.

[Jordan Renan]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Well, it'll make it like Thursday wins.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're going to be like Adam Silver and just watch the highlights.

[Don Hahn]

That's exactly right.

[Damian Woody]

I know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Speaking of that guy, I was going to use that as a that guy today, but the Don thing just got too much. It was just too good. But what Adam Silver said, maybe we could put that in.

[Don Hahn]

You want to hit that in?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And we should hit that in.

[Don Hahn]

All right, let's do it.

[Jordan Renan]

Thanks for listening to my Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I don't want to know how the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.

[Jordan Renan]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. This isn't just another ESPN fantasy football season. It's your shot at greatness. With a refreshed design, the ESPN Fantasy app is sharper than ever. So you can draft like a pro and dominate your league. And introducing Gridiron Gauntlet, a new game mode where the best compete to be crowned the number one fantasy football player of 2025. One app, one shot, one champion. Download the ESPN fantasy app and sign up to play ESPN fantasy football today.