Hour 3: Judge The Great?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 3: Judge The Great?

Podcast Information:

• Title: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
• Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
• Episode: Hour 3: Judge The Great?
• Release Date: June 13, 2025
• Description: The inaugural episode features ESPN New York’s Don La Greca, sportswriter Alan Hahn, and Hip Hop veteran Peter Rosenberg discussing New York sports, with a focus on the Mets' pitching prowess and Aaron Judge's historic season.

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1. Mets' Exceptional Starting Pitching

The episode opens with Alan Hahn diving into the current state of the New York Mets' pitching staff. With a remarkable ERA of 2.80 over 69 games, the Mets hold the best record in baseball. This success is attributed to their strategic approach under David Stearns, focusing on building a cost-effective yet potent starting rotation.

Alan Hahn [00:13]:

“What Stearns has been about and what he’s been doing in building his team is not overspending for starting pitching and trying instead to just find the pieces that fit the right way. And what it’s turned into is the Mets having the best record in baseball right now... a lot of it had to do with the starting pitching.”

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2. David Stearns on the Rotation

David Stearns provides deeper insight into the Mets' pitching strategy. Despite the challenges posed by injuries to key players like Kodai Senga and Frankie Montas, Stearns expresses confidence in the rotation's depth and potential for continued success.

David Stearns [02:14]:

“I don’t know that I could come into a season and say that I expected our starting staff to have a sub 3 era... I expect us to have a good starting rotation. A sub 3 era probably exceeds my expectations.”

Stearns credits the coaching staff, particularly Jeremy Hefner, for their role in developing pitchers and maintaining high performance levels.

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3. Comparing Mets' and Yankees' Pitching Strategies

Alan Hahn contrasts the Mets' approach with that of the New York Yankees, who invest heavily in their pitching staff. The Mets' ability to maintain a low ERA without exorbitant spending underscores their efficient management and depth in pitching.

Alan Hahn [03:23]:

“When you’re talking about again what the Mets have been this season, 2.80 is the ERA. That’s what he’s talking about. The sub 3 for this starting rotational... They have just so much juice out of the squeeze, but this is nothing new. They did it last year.”

The discussion highlights the Mets' resilience in handling injuries, particularly the potential impact of losing Kodai Senga, and how their depth allows them to remain competitive.

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4. Aaron Judge's Historic Performance

A significant portion of the conversation shifts to Aaron Judge, the star outfielder for the Yankees, whose performance this season has been nothing short of historic. Judge boasts a batting average of .392, 25 home runs, 59 RBIs, and an OBP of .488 with 98 hits in just over half the season.

Peter Rosenberg [05:28]:

“When you think about the fact that Lindor and Soto can be better and not just them... we don’t know what the ceiling is for this team.”

Alan Hahn [10:27]:

“I completely agree that it’s too long of a season for the chase for .400 to be a real thing until it... Like, it was August when it started to become real.”

The hosts speculate on the feasibility of Judge reaching a .400 batting average by September, comparing his achievements to some of baseball's all-time greats. They note that if Judge maintains his current average, he could achieve a feat last seen in 1956 by Mickey Mantle.

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5. The Status of Superstars in Modern Sports

The conversation broadens to discuss the role and impact of superstars across various sports. Aaron Judge is placed alongside other sports icons like LeBron James, Steph Curry, and emerging talents like Connor McDavid in hockey and Josh Allen in football.

Alan Hahn [17:16]:

“I think Judge is that type of player. You got to see him play. I think Ohtani is that guy too. But is he at the level of Judge at this point because of just how insane he’s been this year...”

Peter Rosenberg [18:02]:

“Yeah, he’s got that sizzle. Quarterbacks fall off, they fall off in year two. It happens all the time. So if he doesn't, if he improves. But it could be him.”

The hosts emphasize Judge's status as one of the most captivating athletes in the current sports landscape, noting his marketability and the excitement he brings to games.

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6. Player Legacy and Championships

A recurring theme is the importance of championships in solidifying a player's legacy. While Judge's regular-season performance is stellar, the consensus is that without a World Series title, his legacy might not reach the legendary status of players like Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle.

Alan Hahn [41:18]:

“He just can't be recognized as the greatest. Even though it's clear that you could make the argument... When you compare his numbers to Mantle and DiMaggio and Ruth...”

JT [38:30]:

“Without that championship, I mean, you can't, I don't think you can even.”

The discussion underscores the Yankees' culture of championship expectation and how it impacts the perception of their players, regardless of individual statistics.

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7. Caller Interactions: Coaching and Team Dynamics

Listeners contribute to the conversation, discussing topics like coaching decisions, team management, and player development. One caller expresses concern over the Islanders' coaching strategies, drawing parallels with past coaching changes in other sports teams.

Glenn [25:01]:

“My view on Thibodeau is this... I want to win. He was tough, he drove these players hard.”

Spike [30:51]:

“I heard someone that Alan and I very respect Mike Woodson's name was put into this...”

The hosts engage with the callers, offering their perspectives on maintaining team standards and the long-term effects of coaching decisions on team performance.

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8. Final Thoughts and Legacy Building

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the balance between individual excellence and team success. While celebrating Judge's achievements, they reiterate the importance of team championships in immortalizing a player's career.

Don Hahn [44:06]:

“Hear more of Don, Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.”

The conversation concludes with a nod to the ongoing Mets-Yankees narratives and the broader implications for sports legacy and recognition.

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Notable Quotes:

• David Stearns [02:14]:

  “A sub 3 era probably exceeds my expectations.”

• Alan Hahn [03:23]:

  “They have just so much juice out of the squeeze, but this is nothing new. They did it last year.”

• Aaron Judge Discussion [05:28 – 12:54]:

  “He could be the first player since Barry Bonds to lead the league in average, batting average, on base percentage, slugging home runs and walks.”

• Peter Rosenberg [19:33]:

  “Is he hands down the best player in all of sports?”

• Alan Hahn [41:18]:

  “He just can't be recognized as the greatest unless he wins a World Series.”

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Conclusion:

In this episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg, the hosts provide an in-depth analysis of the Mets' outstanding pitching performance and Aaron Judge's potentially record-breaking season. Through expert commentary and engaging discussions, they explore the dynamics of team management, player legacy, and the broader landscape of sports superstars. The episode offers valuable insights for fans looking to understand the intricate balance between individual brilliance and team success in modern sports.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Alan Hahn]

All right. It's a big five o' clock hour. We go. Don Han, Rosenberg, ESPN New York 800-919-3776. Of course, the number and we got lots of calls to get to with you on a big Friday here in New York City. The Yankees start a series at Fenway park tonight against the Red Sox. And then over at Citi Field, the Mets continue their home stand. They play now against the Tampa Rays. They come in. David Stern spoke before this game. Now obviously everybody wanted to know about Kodai Senga. He's on the 15 day, but there's no update now. He's still, I believe still was getting the MRI when he was talking. So they don't really have the MRI results yet on the hamstring. But you know, he's going to miss sometimes. How much more it still remains to be seen. But there's some other interesting things to bring up as well that Stearns talked about. One of them is another injury update. So Frankie Montas, as you know, he's another pitcher of trying to work his way back. He will have another rehab outing next week, scheduled to pitch outing tonight against or before I should say Syracuse. So I guess he's still working his way back, but it doesn't sound like he's ready anytime soon. Jesse Winker, he's multiple weeks away, so still waiting for him to come back as well. So injury wise, middle of the season, this stuff you always deal with. But one thing that the Mets maybe is a, it's gotta be a bit of a surprise. Although this really is what they've been about and what Stearns has been about in building his team is not overspending for starting pitching and trying instead to just find the pieces that fit the right way. And what it's turned into is the Mets having the best record in baseball right now going into this series at 45 and 24. And a lot of it had to do with the starting pitching. And he just discussed what they were, what they've been getting out of their rotation and how much of it is really a surprise when you consider a sub 3 era.

[David Stearns]

I don't know that I could come into a season and say that I expected our starting staff to have a sub 3 era. I expect us to have a good starting rotation, a good pitching rotation. But sure, I think a sub 3 era probably exceeds my expectations Especially when you add on the injuries we had in camp. But I also saw reason to believe that each of the guys who were in the rotation mix could and would be successful. You never know whether it's going to work. But we had reason to believe for all of them that there were things that they could do, things that in certain cases we could help them do that would lead them to success and be able to contribute to a winning rotation. And in terms of where Hef comes into us, comes into this, he's been outstanding. Hef, our entire pitching group. Desi, Rosie, Danny Barnes is part of this, our catching infrastructure. Shirles is part of this, being able to communicate with pitchers. And I've talked about this before, really meeting them where they are understanding what each pitcher is looking to achieve, where they are in their careers, how they want to get better, and working with them to help them be the best versions of themselves. And I think Hef does that extremely well and is aided by a really talented group around him as well.

[Alan Hahn]

Now he's referencing Jeremy Hefner, of course, the pitching coach who's, you know, he's been, he's done a tremendous job. Just looking at the numbers. When you're talking about again what the Mets have been this season, 2, 80 is the era. That's what he's talking about. The sub 3 for this starting rotational. Again, I dare you to name a guy that going into the season you're like, oh, that's guys. Senga. Yes. Sang is a guy, you know, and Sang is the ace. But after, after him, I mean Griffin Canning's been good. They've. If Peterson just gave you a complete game shutout, they have just. I don't know how they've gotten this much juice out of the squeeze, but they have and this is nothing new. They did it last year. Now again, Maniah on his way back. Montas, they're going to add to this, not subtract. And so does it get better? Does do they now that they get better with some of their long relief? There's just so much going on with the Mets and their starting pitching that has been a huge part of the story. 69 games into the season with an ERA of 2.80. So like Peter, you, you can survive losing Senga for a couple of starts because you've shown already the depth you have and what you've gotten out of your, your pitching so far this season. That's really been the strength of this team. Beyond of course the obvious, which is Pete Alonso has been Fantastic. They added Soto and Lindor. The top of the lineup has been good, but the story of the Mets having the best record in the sport this deep into the season has been about their pitching.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Which is. It's simultaneously scary, given the Sanga news, and also exciting when you think about the fact that Lindor and Soto can be better and not just them. I mean, maybe the only person who can't be any better has been Pete Alonso thus far. So it's simultaneously a scary thought, but, man, we don't know what the ceiling is for this team. But Alan, we got to find out just how serious this thing is.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Although it is. Starting pitching is an interesting thing, though. Like, if you're a really good team, I don't think losing one great starter can kill you. But what it does is it makes it so the next one would be debilitating.

[Alan Hahn]

But you gotta understand, Manias, kind of like Senga Manaya, are your two. That's your one, two punch, right. As good as Mania was last year, and even then when they brought him back, it was almost like a, you know, they didn't reward him with like a big, big money contract. Montas was an addition they made, but also a guy they, they kind of brought him in, but nothing over the top. Like, I don't know when we're going to see either one of these guys, you know, Montas, I believe is. Is what, five rehab starts up tonight, will be the fifth one. He's still going to do another one next week, so he's not coming soon. Mania is. Well, I don't think they said anything yet about when his next start would be. So you, you are adding guys that you aren't that haven't pitched yet. But you already know what Mania, what he did last year. Actually, I'm sorry, Maniah is going to be Sunday rehab start. Okay, so he'll get another one on Sunday. But you're not at the midpoint of the season. The Mets have their record, so they have the best record in the league. And you know, you have an ownership that if they are where they are right now, which is sitting at the top of the league, you can go out and get yourself if you feel you need it, a starter or any type of pitching help you might need based on whether or not Senga is going to miss a lot of time. And what we've learned about Senga, as good as he is, he does miss time. So I don't think they're overwhelmed or shocked by this. It is something that you have to prepare for and maybe it's why is this really the better way to go? It's an amazing contrast because the Yankees pitching has been has been pretty good as well, not nearly as good as the Mets, obviously, but it's been pretty good, all things considered. No Garrett Cole. And yet they're the ones that really spend big on their pitching. They spent big on Freed, right? Radon. They spent big on him. So these are arms that they spent money on. These are important guys in their rotation. Whereas the Mets, it's sort of like I don't want to say spare parts because it's being disrespectful, but they are, they are not treating their pitching and especially their starting pitching like it is a premier part of the team. It's almost like and I don't want to say spare, but what's a better way to put accessories? Like they're not spending big on that. They're using it as because if we lose a guy, we'll just replace him with another guy that's sort of like him and it's more been their their approach. It has worked so far. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tough thing for the Mets, man. Basically everyone has exceeded expectations on this pitching staff. But no denying it. Senga is the one as good as everyone's bid. Sure he is. He's the standout ace. He is the ace of the all.

[Alan Hahn]

You worry about is like as you're saying, you get into this part in and it's is it the house of cards that falls apart or is this really what they are right? Is this a formula that's just working for them? Because it did last year, second half of the season really more than anything. But it worked and it got them all the way to the nlcs. You know, it's such a long season that in August we could be saying what a disaster they they're starting pitching as you know, was so good to start the year but all the scouting that's been done and all, whatever it is, these guys wore down and now the starting pitching is their weakness, not their strength. Now happens in a baseball season.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Speaking of long season, I got to ask you and we're going to take your calls again. Everything's on the table. 1-800-9193776 could be Mets, Yankees, could be Tibbs, could be Stanley Cup Final, which was incredible last night, NBA Finals back tonight, game four, whatever it is that suits you.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But speaking of long season, you look at what Aaron Judge is doing right now and you know, as much time as we spend on it. It doesn't feel like it's enough. He's just been so absolutely insane. He's batting.392, 25 home runs, 59 RBIs, OBP of.488. He has 98 hits already. He's doing things that you just do not see in the modern era. When. At what point Allen would he have to hang around in the three 90s where you could start to actually dream about him batting.400 for the season?

[Alan Hahn]

Like how deep into the season that he have to carry it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Cause we're not, you know, we're still three and a half weeks from the break. Right. So obviously we need to get well past that. You need to get through August or most of it. I think it's like September 1st. If he was still.392 on September1, then I think you could start dreaming.

[Alan Hahn]

I completely agree that it's too long of a season for the chase for.400 to be a real thing until it. At the. The earliest is late August. Right. Because, like, the chase for 60, 61, it was. It was August when it started to become real. Right. And then September, it just got. You know, you. You just knew that he was on the pace for it, and you wanted to see could he do it or would he wear down. Boy, he just got there. But the. The four, it's so hard. Like, he really hasn't had a slump. Slump. Right. So, yeah, I. I would say if he's carrying it and if we're like August 15th and he's still in the three 90s, then you gotta feel like, all right, if he gets. If he can get on a hot streak, he could do it. But you. You just know that the more at bats you have, the harder. Like, it's amazing to think that what was he one for? What was the last. Because he didn't play last night, so he's one for four. But he had a home run. But yet he went down in his. At his average just simply because he was.250.

[Peter Rosenberg]

When you're batting.392.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A game where you bat 250 hurts.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So. So I just asked. I just asked good old AI, okay. How many times has a major leaguer batted over.350 and had 50 home runs in the same season? I said, let's bring it down. I don't even want to go up as high as.383. It's the problem. You know, let's. Let's go to.350.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Four players have done it. You could, you could probably guess two of them and you won't guess the other two. The Babe did it like constantly. It's like all he did. Yeah, but the latest time was, you know, 1930. Mickey Mantle was the most recent in 1956. He batted.353 with 52 home runs. And the other two times were hack Wilson and Jimmy Foxx.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

As you remember. Well, yeah, the old Hack man.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If you're talking about something, because let's be honest, 353 and 52 home runs. He's on pace for bet. Like that's not even unrealistic. He's completely on pace to do that.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, yeah, he can easily. And you're saying the last time it was done was in the 50s.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's 56. Mantle did it.

[Alan Hahn]

By Mantle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, that's unbelievable. The fact that we could even be discussing this is, is absolutely, it just.

[Alan Hahn]

Shows you the company, the company that he's keeping. It's, it's, that's why it becomes incomparable because of all the things we're talking about, every comparison. You know, like a lot of times you get these stats where you, you feed them a certain way. So it's, oh, the first player to ever do this. And it's like these, these weird stat compilations. This is just straight up numbers like what you just said was average and home runs. It's not like you were looking for anything more than that. To also have this many walks and this many, like, it's just one thing and it's, it's going back that long ago. So it just shows you how far he has separated himself as an individual. So I've seen stuff like this. Through 67 games, he's totaled 194 bases. The only, the only Yankee to rack up that many within that many games is Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mouse, tied with Ken Griffey Jr. Back from 94, eighth all time in total bases through the first 67 games. It's, it's like this is the other, let's see, same thing with total bases reached, all this stuff. The point is, is like if all, if he just sticks with the averages that he's on right now, he could be the first player since Barry Bonds to lead the league in average, batting average on base percentage, slugging home runs and walks. And why that's significant to me is because we all know Barry Bonds. While as a great hitter as he was, everybody side eyes him for obvious reasons. Judge, you said this I think last week. Right. We believe or we or did Don say it. He's clean for what we know he adopted.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I think we all can firmly say he's playing the game clean because the way the league tests and all that stuff, he'd already been outed after all these years. So what he's doing is comparable to Bonds. And Bonds is somebody that people are sort of side eyeing, which means Judge wouldn't get the side eye. Judge is already a Hall of Famer. He's already Famer. Now he's got, now he's got to be a Yankee legend. And the only way to do it, I know you hate it, but the only way to do it, you've got to have one ring. And I'll go back to the story that's on ESPN.com it's a really, it's long, but it's a good story. It's a bathroom read. And in it they have a conversation between Judge and Anthony Rizzo from last year or Rizzo's like letting them know, hey, make sure these young guys know the Yankee way. And then Rizzo kind of tongue in cheek said, you know, the Yankee way, either you win a World Series or you're a failure. And Judge's response to it was, you damn right. As if he knows it and he accepts it. He almost wants it. How much more could you possibly want out of a player like that? Like you know he wants it. Does he struggle in the in October? Does he, does everybody that calls in about Aaron Judge all say the same thing, how great his regular season is? Doesn't matter. You got to do it in October. He doesn't do it in October. So he's not Jeter. You know, you get all that kind of response from fans, but I think those are the loud minority. I think the majority of Yankee fans recognize they're watching an all time great, a special player, somebody that when there's an at bat, you're not going up to use the bathroom and you're not going to concessions. Your eyes are. If you know he's coming up next, you stay in your seats. I would argue at Yankee Stadium the best time to go to the bathroom or concessions is if judges at bat. Because nobody's getting up. Nobody. And you shouldn't. Because at any moment there can be a moment. Those are rare players, not just in baseball. I think in the four major sports. Seriously, Peter, think about it. Could Judge be right now more box office than anyone playing sports right now in the U.S. oh, when it Comes to when I say if he's at bat, you don't want to miss it. Like LeBron James is still LeBron James. So when he's playing, it's a game where you're going to see.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, he's, he's, he's better than the hurry. The NBA doesn't have a judge right now. There is none. Sorry, we're between. Because we're, but because we're between the last ones and the next one. So who's football.

[Alan Hahn]

Who's, Whose football were you like? No, no. If that guy's playing, you want to watch like you don't want to miss it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it's not Mahomes because I mean as great as he is, he plays stinkers of games and they, they win and he gets it done. But it's not always. I mean, I find Josh Allen and Lamar are both really, really intriguing to watch.

[Alan Hahn]

I think Josh Allen this year might be that he might, he might get to that status.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I, and I, and I know I'm beyond biased, but I think that if Jaden does it for another year, I think he could be that.

[Alan Hahn]

I think Jaden's got a little something. He has sizzle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, he's got that sizzle. Quarterbacks fall off, they fall off in year two. It happens all the time. So if he doesn't, if he improves. But it could be him.

[Alan Hahn]

But if we play the game of like I've done this before and Magic Johnson said this on, on first take two days ago and it almost got, I felt validated because I've been saying this all along. Superstars, there's very few of them. Superstars are box office. Superstars are. That player comes to town and you're like, I got to go see this guy play Judge. Now I think the Yankee thing, it's, you know, because, well, people are coming to see the Yankees anyway because they're the Yankees. But you add judge to the mix. I just think Judge is that type of player. You got to see him play. I think Ohtani is that guy too. But is he at the level of Judge at this point because of just how insane he's been this year and the fact that he's the last three years has been this. I just, I would put him right now in sports among the must see personalities that we have. I think he's there with Curry, I think he's there with LeBron. I think he's probably there with Saquon right now. Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, I'm putting, I just David, I'm putting him in that. I'm putting him right there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just wonder whether. Yeah, I don't think there's a player in any of the sports at his level right now, but that's a great conversation. Is he hands down the best player in all of sports?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Like, if you could only watch one player right now, like, I'm giving you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, honestly, you're almost adding too much sauce to it. It's. It's more simple than that. Is there any player better at their game right now than Aaron Judges? I don't know if there's any. And that's why I will say Yankee fans, you people disappoint me because I. What? I understand, Wilks. I understand it's not you, but I understand it's all about championships.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But the fact that we're in the middle of a year like this, and I'm telling you, we almost never get phone calls from people being like, hey, could we just talk Aaron Judge for a minute? Like, could we just get a little bit of excitement around it? A little something. You can't win a title in June, but you can celebrate one of the greatest players who ever lived.

[Alan Hahn]

You don't think he's being celebrated?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think he could be celebrated more, but. Well, you know what? One way to probably get help with this would be BetterHelp. And I have an ad brought to you by BetterHelp. Her it's okay to struggle. All right? And real strength comes when you open up about what you're dealing with and doing something about it so you could be at your best for yourself and everyone else in your life. You know what? I'm going to skip the script right now and tell you something just completely from me. You heard me talking earlier about how hard Father's Day was for me before I was a dad, and I had it multiple times where I was really going through it. And frankly, in that period, especially when I was on my own, I don't know if I could have gotten through it without therapy. So if you've been thinking about it, you've been embarrassed about it. BetterHelp is a great way to go, okay? They're the largest online therapy provider in the world. They provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] timeout. That's betterhelp.com timeout.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just.

[Don Hahn]

Said, catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right? It really goes to show you. Listen, we all.

[Alan Hahn]

George Harrison has to have a. He has to have an impact on this, because that sounds very much like a Harrison kind of song.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But by the way, great call. Written by Ringo and George Harrison.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, there you go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Look at you.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm just guessing there. See, I got World Be Free. You know, I got that wrong. But I hit this one, so I'm.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But by the way, but it's from 1973, so. No, it's not about John.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, clearly not. But it sounds. You could. If you listen to the lyrics, it could be when you see. When you. The first couple of lines, right, he sounds melancholy, how he misses someone. And I think of all the places we used to go, and it's like, oh, wait.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I mean, can I step out on a limb here? My prediction is John Lennon was not the only person Ringo Starr ever knew who died.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what I mean?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Unfortunately, it's unfortunate. I wish he was. I wish it was the only person Ringo ever lost. But the man's been on this planet for a long time. He probably lost other people. But. But by the way, isn't it interesting how different all of our, like, interest in music is? Like, no matter how much we have similarities, I just. I've never met anyone. And I'm not trying to downplay how great he is or anything, but just to show how different we all are. I've never met anyone who's like, I'm a. I'm a Ringo Starr fan. I go to, like, I've never. Honestly never.

[Alan Hahn]

I get it. Like, to be motivated to go see him perform is. It's pretty strong. But it's also, if you think about it, there's. There's two remaining living Beatles.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, there's that part, too.

[Alan Hahn]

And it's. That's still pretty iconic to say. I saw one of them perform now, McCartney. Like, he's here and there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You see, you can see McCartney. I mean, I've seen McCartney.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See, McCartney happens. The man plays stadiums all the time.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or has.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And by the way, still looked absolutely tremendous at snl. Well, I don't get it. Hold on. Why?

[Alan Hahn]

Just funny.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just a reminder.

[Alan Hahn]

Exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why Batman, though?

[Alan Hahn]

Transition. That's the transition. That's the Batman transition from one scene to another. It's Anthony's passive aggressive way of saying, let's get back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh.

[Alan Hahn]

Way too much Beatles and Ringo talk today.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. He hit us with an okay, boy.

[Alan Hahn]

I think I've been pretty good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, you haven't been bad, boy. So have we. We've been pretty good, too. We only had a couple of Ringo moments.

[Don Hahn]

It's Friday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's. It's Ringo Day. Now, before we do it.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can we just hear. Can we just hear? Richard, trample me one more time in case people missed it. That's worth hearing. I think it's interesting. We're gonna see, though. We're gonna. Some of the players. You can't. You can't. He ruined it. I mean, both you guys got to make up your mind on who's pulling the trigger.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sure we'll hear it in the end, which is coming up at 6.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's let it breathe. Let's. We'll come back to it.

[Alan Hahn]

Let it breathe. Speaking of breathe, we got tons of calls here, Peter. Why don't we.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's jump right in. Let's not mess around. Do you have an inkling here? Well, should you go to Gordon, who's been on hold for a while?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, Gordon's been on hold for a bit. Let's, let's, let's get him off.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, Gordon and Smith. What's up?

[Glenn]

Hey, Alan, it's Glenn and Smith. Then.

[Alan Hahn]

How are you, buddy? Glenn. Hey, what's up, Glenn? How you doing, man?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sorry, Glenn. I'm just.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it says on the call screener it says Gordon, so.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But Gordon and Glenn, you're in the same family. It's. What do you got there, Gordon? Glenn, I've been.

[Glenn]

I've been called worse. So. Thibodeau. My view on Thibodeau is this. You know, when you hear the rumblings of the players. We heard the same thing about Barry Trots. And what I wouldn't do to have Barry Trots back as my coach at the Outers, you know, all the guys that said, you know, we want to open up, we want to play more offensively. I liked winning a lot more. If. Whether it's a defensive, I don't really care. I want to win. And I, I just think that was a huge mistake on Thibodeau. And if you don't mind, Alan, Matt Schaefer's got to be the first round pick, right?

[Alan Hahn]

I couldn't tell you. I honestly have. I don't think there's a. There's a given when it comes to the number one pick for the Islander. So I, I couldn't tell you. Honestly. I don't know what the best choice is. I don't know it well enough. I just hope.

[Glenn]

I mean the kid.

[Alan Hahn]

Go ahead.

[Glenn]

The kid from. The Kid. I'm sorry, the kid from Hop Hog would be a great story, but only if he's the best player in the draft. Yeah, but also you remember with the. Remember the Sadine twins when they said I'm only coming, I. I gotta make, you know, we gotta play together. And Brian Burke made that trade happen. So you take the best player available, number one, and then you take some of your future access. You got two number one picks next year you trade into the top five, maybe a dangle Dobson, and you get Pagans and this and one of the. Either Shaffer or. Or Misa. But I would love to see Higgins, but I want it warranted. I don't want it just because he's from a local kid.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, of course. It's got to be the best fit, the right fit and all the things that you're looking for and the style you're looking for and all those things. We'll see. But I'll say this, Glenn, the Tibbs, Barry Trots, for those who know it, obviously it's the Islander, so they don't get as much attention. But I did say this, I've said this a lot about Barry Trots and I said, I worry about this with Tibbs. When Barry Trots walked out of that building, he took the standard with him. They were never the same. That's the Jenga piece I'm talking about. Tom Coughlin walks out of the Giants organization, they have never been the same. It's a standard that the coach upholds and not, you know, look, people don't like when a coach is a standard guy. That is okay. This is how we are and there's no exceptions. You know, when you're on time, you're late. Was a TC saying, you know, show up at the meeting. Oh, what time's the meeting? It's 10 o' clock. Why are you here at 10? That time's a meeting. Yeah, but you're late. What he means is get there at 9:55. That's on time. It's just a standard. Oh, he's being a hard ass. Oh, this guy's old ways and all that stuff. And Odell didn't like it, so that started to crumble and that got rid of them. They've never been the same. Barry Trots, he was tough, he drove these players hard, but they were one of the hardest teams to play against. They were a tough team. They got the back to back conference finals and then they just kind of got tired of his. Him driving him so hard, being demanding, being tough on Barzal, who was supposed to be their young star player. And once he walked out, that whole standard was gone. It became a country club and that ends up in the same. So I worry about that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The reason that the Coughlin one stands out as the dumbest by far, far, is that he won two championships. Well, of course. So eventually, if the whole act of wearing everyone out if they don't win and people decide this isn't working. But I never understood it with the Giants base. And this was all right around when I came here because I moved here in 07. And keep in mind, it's the mid 2000s, I'm a Redskins fan, and I'm hearing every couple of years everyone's ready to get rid of Tom Coughlin. I'm like, what are these people talking about? Are they out of their mind?

[Alan Hahn]

Mind. I know. So they made the playoffs that year. You remember they made the playoffs. And that was again, Odell's like kind of coming out party year. And the whole thing was a bit of an old standard versus the, the new school thing because Odell was very popular. He was very viral. He was out there. He was, you know, all the stuff with the kicking Ned and all the things that were going on, his histrionics. He always knew a camera was on him. He was a jet setter. He was being seen with Kardashians and everything. And for Tom Coughlin, he's like, can we just be about football? Like, we don't need to do all this stuff. You don't need to propose to a kicking net. Like, let's just play football. And then we've got to go on the banana boat and take pictures during the week off before the football game. Then we're out at Green Bay and it's freezing out. Tom Coughlin knows his face almost froze off back in an NFC championship game. And now he's out there and these, these knuckleheads are running around like, that's, that's the point is like Tom Coughlin, if he's coaching that team in Green Bay in that game, is not letting that stuff happen. He's not. But they let that guy walk out the door and all this stuff. Now Odell and his personality took over the team rather than the coach being the standard setter. This is who we are. This is how we play. And if you don't like it, find players who will listen and of course.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We know how, we know how it worked out with Odell and the Giants. So let's go to Spike and St. Pete. Hey Spike, how you doing buddy?

[Spike]

Well, I'm doing. I have a heavy heart today for what's going on in the world. So I got. I want to go out into the candy store and wish you Peter, a wonderful first Father's Day of many with your beautiful daughter. And I understood exactly what you said before you had children than there done that. Alan, your, your final four, your favorite four. How does the hockey tournament turn out to your 10 year old?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, Cali. Cali played great. She had six goals, 10 points in. In three games in the, in the round robin they went three and O. But then they ran into a goalie played. She was so good. This goalie shut them out. Cali was very upset. She couldn't score that game. They lost and then so they didn't come home with a medal. And so she was, she was distraught.

[Spike]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

But I played great. I was very proud of her.

[Spike]

Yeah. Yeah. The ride home must have been. It's hard to explain to someone that age a child that you played great, your team lost.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, four hour drive home. You save it by going to McDonald's. Happy Meal cures everything.

[Spike]

That's why they have that poison or that food, if you want to call it that, to make you feel good. And the last thing is with tips. I heard something today that I found quite disturbing on the spot sports front and I. I heard someone that Alan and I very respect Mike Woodson's name was put into this. This Some. Some writer had the nerve, the unmitigated goal to put Mike Woodson who retired. I know he didn't achieve a lot of his alma mater but it was a tough thing for him to come in with the portal and I guess what he's about 67, 68 years old. He got permission from Tibbs to leave the team if I remember that correctly.

[Alan Hahn]

And a job. Yes, yes.

[Spike]

Right, right. And someone. I don't listen to much TV banter. I'll watch when you're on and stuff like that. I'm kind of a goofy. But is that true? Are they going fishing? I understand what's going on here. I really do. They're not going to hire a rookie coach. They're going to probably wind up with somebody. But asking teams to permission to talk to somebody is being overblown. Is the Knicks are desperate. It really is this, this is the way it works. The commissioner does not want to Disrupt the finals, which I think will turn on a dime tonight with okc. Just my opinion, but could you tell me about Woody? Have you heard anything?

[Alan Hahn]

I can tell you that Woody. Woody still reveres this job. I've said that. Phil should have never gotten rid of him back in 2015. Huge mistake. Woody was. Woody loved being back on Thibodeau staff. That Leon brought him back and they and Wes and all them brought him in. And when the Indiana opportunity opened up, he. He jumped at it because that's his school, obviously, and it meant the world to him. He's. What is he, 67, you know?

[Spike]

67. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't think it's crazy. I don't think it's crazy for him to be somebody that you would say if. If he called Leon Rose and said, I'm interested in the job. It's not something you like. Yeah, no. Well, you know, you sit this one out. No, you talk to him because he has had prior success. He's a really good coach. But I do think they have some other names ahead of his. But look, I love the guy, so it doesn't shock me that he would. You would consider him. I think it's wild card that Ian Begley said. That wouldn't shock me. No. Why not?

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you watch want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hey, it's game time. Brought to you by Tulla Mordue Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, it's tolly time. It's tolly time. Mets open up a series with the Rays coverage right here following us. That's at 6:30 and then the Yankees are in Boston to face the sox. That's at 710 tall. More dew. The original triple distilled triple blend in triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. And as promised, let's just try to get to as many people as we can, rifle through as best we can possibly do it. We'll start out with if I can pick up Tommy in Connecticut. Let's try Tommy.

[Tommy]

What's up, gentlemen?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Alan, I love that you brought up.

[Tommy]

Barry Trots and Coughlin as comps because the other one that came to mind was obviously John Tortorella who just grinds the guys down, but they played a Good brand of hockey. And the other thing is, as amazing as Aaron Judge is, and I'm a huge Yankee fan with the numbers that he's producing, when you're in the same conversation as an augmented Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, and Babe Ruth, you're doing something right.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Tommy]

I still think Connor McDavid is better at hockey than anyone is anything on this planet.

[Alan Hahn]

I can't. I can't fight you on that, Tommy. I did mention him when I talked about box office in sports right now. You know, I got. I got LeBron, I got Curry, Judge Saquon. You could name him there. I think Josh Allen will be that. And then Connor McDavid in the NHL is. Even if you're not a hockey fan. Like, I implore people to watch the Stanley Cup Final just to see this dude. He didn't score, like, last night. He didn't score the goal, but he made. He made Ekblad like, Anthony, you remember that move he made where he's going full speed and he just completely dangles three players, and Ekblad fell right on his ankles. Oh, my God. Like, but he just. He almost finished it, but he, you know, was not able to get it by Bobrovsky, but an insane move. He's breathtaking. And that's why I say if. Even if you don't like hockey, you got to watch this guy play at the highest level.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, he was the first name. He was the first name I thought of.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Outside a judge. Let's go to Javier in Queens. What up?

[Javier]

Hey, what's up, fellas? How's it going? I have a fraud Friday question for you guys. I actually checked in with the king of all fraud, Don, yesterday, so I know where he stands on this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It doesn't sound right, but keep going.

[Alan Hahn]

If that's how I'd put it.

[Javier]

No, no, not the king of all frauds. The king of all fraud, AKA Fraud Master Flex.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, there you go.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There you go. Yep.

[Javier]

All right. So with Yankees, Red Sox coming up with a Hunter Dobbins and his dad. Right, The Dobbins family. Apparently, fraudulence may run in families, might be hereditary. I know. I know how Don feels. But, you know, the story is his dad claimed to have been on the Yankees and was traded away. And because of that, there's hurt feelings, but apparently it did not happen. It's untrue. And I think the sun is kind of doubling down on it, trying to, like, you know, back off. So is this. Is this fraudulent? Is this family, the fraud family? I don't want to call it a family, but are they frauds?

[Alan Hahn]

So the story goes like this, Peter, this is what Hobby's telling us. This. The kid Hunter said that his dad was drafted twice by the Yankees, signed with that last year, then he got traded to the Diamondbacks. Okay, so Joel Sherman did a little fact checking, could not verify any of this. No record of a draft pick under his father, Lance Dobbins name.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, no.

[Alan Hahn]

Brian Cashman. Also, no memory of drafting Lance Dobbins. Amateur department in the Yankees organization revealed no such record of that pick.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That has to be fraudulent. I mean, is there even a conversation.

[Alan Hahn]

Did we make up this story? Is the whole backstory now just a complete fabrication? Just to give you a little juice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, let me. I'll just say this. If it's not completely made up, then it should be very easily explainable. Oh, my dad's name was different before. There has to. There should be a very simple fix here. These things don't happen inside a vacuum. Let's go to JT on Long Island. Hey, jt.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey.

[JT]

Yeah, guys, so I just wanted to jump into this conversation you've been having all week. I wish Don was here because, you know, to quote himself, he's wrong on this. And Judge, while, while he's amazing and, and to, to disagree with the previous caller with McDavid and you too, Alan Ohtani is the in. In sports right now. When he gets back on the mound after the All Star Game, you guys, you know, just stay tuned.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, when he gets back on the mound, he has not there yet. So right now he's not the greatest show in his sport.

[JT]

Judge, I think, I think you're true. I think he's coming after the All Star. But, but to, to judge and I fully agree with you on this. And, and got to disagree with Don because you know, unfortunately for Judge, he is on the Yankees. And what are these Yankees all about, right? About championships. So just like when you go to college, you can't go on to, you know, 201 or 301 without getting that prerequisite. Like to be the greatest Yankee of all time comes with a prerequisite, and that's winning a championship. So you got like guys like Ruth and Mantle and, and vera and, and DiMaggio. All these guys Judge can't jump them without getting that championship. Even Jeter and, and Mariano, I mean, he might be, he might end up with the best numbers and he might be the best, the most talented Yankee of all time. If you want to give him that. He's probably already that with what he's done and what he consistently continues to do, but without that championship, I mean, you can't, I don't think you can even.

[Alan Hahn]

I agree. No, jt Again, he's got to win. You know, the Boston, they call it banner number. He's got to win banner number 28. Like that's, it's as simple as that. And, and you know what I get, I'm gonna hold steadfast to this because it's not, it's out of his control, but it's, it's just the way it is. He plays for the Yankees, it's just a different expectation. Whether you agree or not, it doesn't matter. It's a real thing. And unless he wins ring 28, he'll be one of the great players to play in the franchises history.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I'll have a big old asterisk right next to him.

[Alan Hahn]

He just can't be recognized as the greatest. Even though it's clear that you could make the argument statistically that he get that he is. When you compare his numbers To Mantle and DiMaggio and Ruth though, I mean, to me that's, that's your, that's your, your holy trinity in Yankee history, if you ask me. Right. Would you say Ruth, DiMaggio and Mantle, that's your holy trinity. I know everybody loves Jeter, but those.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Three guys and Garrick, but yeah, it's.

[Alan Hahn]

So, so he's right there with them and he can't pass him without one. You can't. Gotta just get one, Rick. He doesn't need four or five because we all know the area.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, I'm with you. I'm with you no matter, no matter how much. And he knows if I, even if I think it's unfair, what I won't be like is God bless him. I won't be like Don who starts kind of screaming about how it doesn't make sense, it just is.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Whether it making sense, we're arguing something we can't control. We just. That's what it is.

[Alan Hahn]

That's, that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm with you.

[Alan Hahn]

He said it himself. Like I said the Rizzo thing about tell these kids about the Yankee way. Either you win a, win a World Series or you're a failure. And judge's response was not to push back. Instead he said, you're damn right. Which means he owns it, he loves it, and all he's got to do now is just win one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, guys, we are going to take a very short break. Shout out to Jonathan and Rob. Sorry we didn't get to you. E N N is next. On a Friday, baby. Don, Han and Rosenberg. Don, I mean Alan.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's your name, right?

[Alan Hahn]

That's so far. It is today.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Albert. Albert, talk to me about something.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don, Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.