Peter Rosenberg (3:51)

Yeah, I think so. I think it's hard to imagine a world in which the brewers were any. Any semblance of what they were without Cal Raleigh. I'm sorry, Mariners. I said Brewers. It's hard. Whereas with the, with Judge and the Yankees, it's. While he has a huge impact on them. This is a team, Don, with many other notable players who have been good.

Don Hahn (4:18)

Right.

Peter Rosenberg (4:18)

There is reason to think that they would still be the Yankees and would find a way to adapt without Judge now. But at the same time, Don, when you look back at the last several years, the Yankees without Judge, they really are not the same team.

Don Hahn (4:30)

Right?

Peter Rosenberg (4:31)

Like we've seen it. I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if Bellinger is playing well or Stanton's playing well. They're not the same team.

Don Hahn (4:36)

You can't take a player of that significance away from anybody expected to be the same team. It's just that could they have found a way? Remember when they pretty much didn't have judge two years ago, they still finished above.500. You know, it's a possibility. No, Cal Raleigh, that Seattle's 10 games under.500 or something ridiculous like that. Now, it's obviously up for debate, and you can join the debate at 1-800-919-3776. The reason why, when you really look and dissect it, that it was a no brainer, is because they've kind of taken the fun out of the MVP because they really just look at who has the better war. So, Judge, despite Raleigh's amazing year and the fact that he was a catcher, according to baseball reference, his war was 7.4. Judges was 9.7. And in the history of this award since war has become a thing over the last decade, when it's that significant, you're going to give it to the guy that's got the higher war. Now, it doesn't always go to the guy with the higher war, but it's usually very close. Like by point 2. Like if it's 7.4 to 7.2, I don't have it in front of me, Anthony. But just confirm for me that when Acuna won it, his WAR was like point two less than Mookie Betts. Yeah, like, it was very close. So they gave it to Acuna Jr. All right, all right, fine. But when it's that wide, it almost always goes to the guy with the higher war. Except in 2012. In 2012, in the American League, Miguel Cabrera, who had a Triple Crown, which is almost never happens, I think was the first time it had happened in the American League since 67. When Cabrera did it, he won the MVP over Mike Trout. Cabrera's WAR was 7.1. Trout's WAR was 10.5, significantly higher. But. But the Detroit Tigers that year won the Central Division. The Angels finished above.500, but they finished third in the west and didn't make the playoffs. So that's the extenuating circumstances. Like, I'm not giving the MVP to Trout because they didn't make the playoffs. Cabrera did something nobody ever does, and that's hit it for a Triple Crown, and his team won the division. But in the case of Raleigh and Judge, there was the discrepancy. But one team was a wild card team, the other team won their division. So it really just does show you that. We sit there and we debate and we argue. It really always ends up going to the guy. If you've got a significant war like that now, now 60 home runs as a catcher, is that Triple Crown worthy in some people's eyes? It might be because that's never happened. There have been people that have hit for the Triple Crown, but no catcher has ever hit 60 home runs. But with the batting average being different, I just think Peter, it just went to the fact that Judge had a significantly higher WAR than Cal did.

Peter Rosenberg (7:44)

And you know what? There is. It's not right. But in all kinds of things like this, there is a lifetime achievement part that factors in here. Meaning, you know, if Cal Raleigh does this again, Don. And like, we learned that this wasn't some sort of fluke, but this is the beginning of him just being here to stay. I wouldn't be surprised that if a similar thing happened, he wins it. But don't you think there's also. If you're baseball and you're a voter and you're someone who, obviously, when you're. If you're a voter, you care deeply about the game, don't you think there could be part of you that thinks, I'd rather have. For the legacy and for the continued building of Aaron Judge's brand, I'd rather have him get another one. Then this maybe just turns out to be one fluke one in the middle. That makes sense.

Don Hahn (8:37)

Yeah, it does.

Peter Rosenberg (8:38)

Like, oh, Judge won five, except in the middle. This guy on Seattle who completely fell off the map afterwards. He'd had that one year. If it's close enough, I can see why it's a little bit of a lifetime achievement with the guy. He's doing it consistently.

Ryan Reynolds (8:56)

He's.

Peter Rosenberg (8:57)

I just. I could see it, factoring it. Well, same with Otani.

Don Hahn (9:02)

Yeah. And Ohtani. Now, the other thing, too is, you know, when we. It just shows you it's really about the numbers. Because Juan Soto finished third. Are you kidding me? If you really are going to look at the mvp, there's no way Soto should finish third. I don't care what the numbers say, because every time he got hot, the Mets lost. When he was terrible, the Mets won. So what do numbers matter? If you paid attention, how could you even consider him for the mvp? Because. Because it seemed like every time he played well, they struggled. And then when he was completely out of it, like the beginning of the year, they were the hottest team in baseball. That should rule you out right there. So I don't know what matters anymore. I guess it just. I guess I do know it's WAR now. I don't know what factors into war. I guess they'll tell me all the different stats and all that, but I just didn't think it was that outlandish. When you see a catcher do something that no catcher had ever done before. Carlton Fisk never done it. Johnny Bench never did it. Munson never did it. Like, Pudge never did it. Like all the great catchers you can think of never came close to hitting 60 home runs. And Seattle parlayed that into a division title that nobody really saw coming. Maybe they thought that, hey, if things break right, Seattle might be a playoff team. But to win the American League West I don't think was on anybody's bingo card. So if he had won it, I don't think it would have been that. It wouldn't have been criminal. But I can't say that Raleigh got robbed either. But it does kind of make you think that if you had two awards, how would it go? And how about Dan Patrick? Dan Patrick said if Raleigh was a Yankee and Judge was a Mariner, Raleigh would have won it. Well, now that kind of spits in the face to the whole east coast bias. Right? They don't want to give it to a New York team that they always kind of lean towards giving it to the other markets because New York always wins everything that kind of spits in the face of that myth. I don't, I buy that.

Peter Rosenberg (11:07)

I do think there's more bias towards for the Yankees than against Brock Ward. The better the Yankees are, the better Aaron Judge is, the better it is for the sport.

Don Hahn (11:22)

True.

Peter Rosenberg (11:23)

That's just a numbers game.

Don Hahn (11:24)

Yeah, but sometimes people think the evil empire Yankees have everything, so they got the players. But, but Don, that's something, right?

Peter Rosenberg (11:32)

But that's, that's how fans feel.

Don Hahn (11:34)

That's not real. The point is, is that Yankee fans will argue that it was a no brainer. Well, to the voters it wasn't because it was still 17 to 13, first place vote. So it was close. So even though the war was significantly better and even though Judge had, you know, much better batting average on base percentage, there was a lot of analytical things outside of batting average that factored into this. It was still close. So it wasn't like they completely ignored what Raleigh did, but it was, it was interesting and I don't think you could really complain either way. 1-800-919-3776 let's go to Tom and Putnam. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Tom? Hey, Don.

Caller (12:15)

So I mean, you basically just touched on everything I said. I mean, they say batting average isn't important anymore. Judge destroyed him on base percentage. Judge destroyed him. Well, now it's all about war. Judge destroyed him. So I mean that's, you guys already talked about that. I guess I want to just add one more thing. I mean, has the standard really fallen? So. And he had a. Cal had a great season. But has the standard really fallen so much that we're going to consider giving MVP awards to sub.250 hitters? Because like if we are pretty sure Adam Dunn would like to step in and have a conversation. Because if it's just about the most home runs.

Don Hahn (12:51)

Right. But the only, the only consideration, Tom, and maybe to you it doesn't matter, is to do this as a catcher, to me is pretty special. We've been playing baseball for 150 years. Nobody has ever come close to doing this. Even in the steroid era, nobody ever did it to this level. And they did win the division. I think they got it right. I got that. But I do think him and a switch hitter. And a switch hitter. Let's not forget that he broke the record for home runs for a switch hitter. More than Mickey Mantle. You know, more home runs as a catcher, more than any. Those are pretty significant things.

Caller (13:29)

Yeah, I mean, I agree. I just. I mean I. I'm in my mid-30s. I consider myself old school. I just. I just can't fathom. I mean a sub.250 hitter winning an MVP when somebody else.

Don Hahn (13:43)

But we. But to. Just to throw the analytic argument back, we've been told batting average doesn't matter. Like, so if batting average doesn't matter, it should be taken out.

Caller (13:52)

Like you said, the stuff that. The stuff that we have been told is important. Judge destroyed him in those two. So, like, what's even the.

Don Hahn (13:59)

But that's what's so interesting, Tom, and thank you for the phone call. It lends to the debate of should there be two separate awards? Because in no world is Cal Raleigh in the same stratosphere as Aaron Judge as a player. But should that be what the MVP is like? Most Valuable Player? You can make the case that Cal was way more valuable Seattle than Judge was to the Yankees. Yankees had a disappointing regular season. Right. They took a step back from last year. They didn't win the division. Now that's semantics too. They had the same amount of wins as the Toronto Blue Jays. And I believe Anthony, correct me if I'm wrong, same amount of wins as the year before when they won the division, but they still were a wild card team and Seattle won the division. So I think the argument is a better one. Should there be two awards more so than. Was Cal Raleigh robbed? I don't think he was robbed, but switch hitter, catcher. These things should be taken into consideration, at least to me. Phil and Brooklyn, you're on ESPN New York. Hey, Don, you know, I don't.

Alan Hahn (15:04)

They're looking at all these numbers, they're going to give it to the best player.

Don Hahn (15:07)

To me, calling it the MVP is silly because you're going to give it to the best player.

Alan Hahn (15:11)

So why is it called the most valuable player?

Don Hahn (15:13)

It never made any sense to me. Well, I think they do that because overwhelmingly, the majority of the time, it's going to go to the best player. Like, it's gonna. It's gonna be the same guy. It's not that often that the best player isn't the mvp. Right. There was one year, Peter, that Andre Dawson won the MVP. I think it was in 87. And the Cubs finished in last. And people are like, well, what does it matter? He was the best player. But they finished in last. They would have finished in last without him. How can, how can you give him the mvp? Like, so there is inconsistencies. But I believe the reason they don't do it, Peter, is because I, I would. I would think 9 out of 10 times it would go to the same guy.

Peter Rosenberg (15:54)

Well, that, that's. And I. And by the way, though, this, this is not simply. This is not simply a baseball issue. We've had this conversation, Don, about MVPs in all sports many times. You know, what is. Are there are certain.

Don Hahn (16:09)

If.

Peter Rosenberg (16:09)

If you make it solely on value to a team, there are certain players who could win every year simply on the team's existence. Unless the team is the worst team in the league. Right. You look at it. Ovechkin in Washington, a Crosby in Pittsburgh, a LeBron in Cleveland. Every year, just give it to them. There's no one who can be much more valuable than Jokic in Denver.

Don Hahn (16:33)

Right. He's the best player in the NBA, Don. You know what?

Peter Rosenberg (16:36)

Every year, by the way, you maybe just took the cake again. Exactly. Jokic and Denver may be the best example. I mean, they have. They have some night. They've always had some nice players around him. But you're telling me we're talking about them as a championship contender every year without Nikola Jokic, it's the whole thing.

Don Hahn (16:52)

Let's go to Andrew in Huntington. You're on espn. New York. What's up, Andrew?

Caller (16:58)

Hey, guys. You know, baseball Riders of America, you know, they're saying, you know, it was 17 to 13 on votes. It shouldn't have even been close. Judge was far and away better. He won every category that he won by 100 points or more. He only lost home runs by seven and RBIs by, I think, 11 or 12. I don't understand how it was Even so close, he also won the batting title. First person who ever won a batting title with over. I think it was 50 home runs, I believe. I think it's actually an insult to Aaron Judge and how under, like, undervalued he is.

Don Hahn (17:38)

But Andrew, honestly, the fact that he did it as a switch hitter and a catcher, there is some significance to that, right? Mickey Mantle didn't hit that many home runs as a switch hitter. No catcher ever had 60 home runs. So I don't disagree with you. That Judge deserves it. But you don't see how people could have been swayed by the fact that Seattle won their division and that a catcher hit 60 home runs, that a switch hitter hit 60 home runs. You can't see why some people might be swayed by that.

Caller (18:10)

I can see that. But the difference between each category, it's, it's, it's not as great when you look at Judge's numbers against.

Don Hahn (18:20)

Because Judge is a better player. Judge is the better player. But let me ask you this. If Judge put those same numbers together and the Yankees finished in last, would you still give him the award?

Caller (18:32)

I think you would have to. If he's the best player.

Don Hahn (18:34)

Well, see that. But there's our argument, Andrew, and thank you for the phone call. You think because he's the best player that he automatically has to get the award, but it's mvp, Most Valuable Player. Now, maybe it's a semantics game. I don't know how the voters vote. Maybe they vote who the better player is. But Peter, if you're going by the definition of Most Valuable player and a guy wins the division and does things that nobody's ever done before, if that caller saying he would have given it the judge, even if they finished in last, then he is not, he is not looking at the definition of Most Valuable Player. He's looking at best player. And if you're looking at best player, Peter, there is no argument. Aaron Judge the best player. But that's not really what the award is, is it?

Peter Rosenberg (19:19)

Well, and that conversation about best player, that, that makes the, and we can maybe get into this in a bit next. That's what makes the him versus Ohtani things always, always so interesting.

Don Hahn (19:33)

You know what I mean? Now, the interesting thing, if the Dodgers were in the American League, let's say you swapped out the Angels and put the Dodgers there, and Ohtani had the exact same season and the Dodgers had the exact same season in the American League that they had in the National League, who would have won the MVP? 1-800-91937, 7, 6. Because that's more of an apples to apples, right? Because Ohtani won in the National League and the Dodgers ended up being the better team. Now they weren't the better team in the regular season because they didn't win as many games. I got to look and see who won more games. I don't remember. But the Dodgers certainly didn't have the regular season that people anticipated them to have. They had to play in the wild card round. They didn't have the buy.

Peter Rosenberg (20:19)

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Peter Rosenberg (23:07)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Alan Hahn (23:12)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Don Hahn (23:20)

So we're telling you about this weird injury for Jack Hughes. Apparently injured his hand during a team dinner in Chicago and and he's out at least for the game against Washington tomorrow. Devils also announced the Connor Brown, who the last I checked was five minutes away from coming back from injury, has been placed on ir. So and I and when I was mentioning all the list of injuries for the Devils, I failed to mention Brett Pesci was probably one of the biggest ones. So no Pesci, no Hamilton, no Brown, no Hughes, no Glass, no dedonoff, who hasn't played a game so far this year yet. They're still in first place, but boy, they should have a seance at the Rock. Peter, with the injuries that this team has suffered. But I will say it's a long season. You'd rather be having these injuries in November than in April or May for sure. So you know, hopefully, unfortunately it doesn't work.

Peter Rosenberg (24:13)

Unfortunately, it's no guarantee that just because you have them in November, you don't have them in April and May.

Don Hahn (24:17)

But no, especially at the rate that they're going here. But we're talking a little baseball, having some fun. 1-800-919-3776 so people are very passionate about this. People I remember because I'm old enough to remember when I believe Darryl Strawberry was robbed of an MVP in 88, when they gave it to Gibson. And that's when the whole New York bias started. And Strawberry's numbers were way better. But Gibson kind of surprised a lot of people coming over from Detroit. And the Dodgers won their division, and so did the Mets. And what happened in the postseason? Dodgers won, but that shouldn't have mattered for the award. And there was a case where Yarmier, Yaga, Anthony will tell you, should have won our trophy in 05 06. And they gave it to, To Jumbo. Jim. Joe. Joe. Excuse me, Joe Thornton. I couldn't get it out of my. Yeah, Joe. We got Jose. So, like, so there's always been that feeling that there is a New York bias, like New York gets all the good stuff. So this is where we're going to hand out the awards. Any Yankee fan will tell you, you can, you can set fire to all the MVPs, get, get yourself a ring, get yourself a championship, but in real time, the MVPs certainly matter, especially for a homegrown guy like Judge. So I would have gotten the frustration had he not won. But I, I, I do think people have to kind of understand how they might be a little upset in Seattle and why it was as close as it was. Jose's in the car. You're on espn. New York. What's up, Jose?

Caller (25:57)

I just wanted to make the point that Cal rallies calling the game with the pitcher, and he has more of an effect on the game than Aaron Judge does. And he's on his knees the whole game. He's crouching. Jeff couldn't do that.

Don Hahn (26:16)

It. I do, I appreciate that you appreciate the position. I, I kind of cringe, Peter, when I hear people say the position you play shouldn't matter. Damn right it matter. Catcher, man, you're at a pretty.

Peter Rosenberg (26:29)

Not.

Don Hahn (26:29)

You're at a big disadvantage, man, the wear and tear, being a catcher as opposed to standing out in the outfield for nine innings. I'm not taking anything away from Judge. I think he's a tremendous defender. But to be in the crouch and play as many games as he played and calling a game and defending and all that, there's a lot to it. I think people need to appreciate that this isn't the difference between a guy playing third base and a guy playing first base or a guy playing first base and a guy playing right field. There's a catcher. So I have some respect for the position.

Peter Rosenberg (27:01)

But can I tell you what the position Conversation is exactly why, you know, it's hard to picture a world in which Shohei Ohtani is not MVP every year because of the fact that he's playing such high level ball at two positions.

Don Hahn (27:17)

And that was our brought up. Like if he, if this, you know, he did pitch this year. Not all, not a ton of innings. But think about if it's back in the old days, if the Dodgers were in the American League and it's Ohtani versus Judge and Ohtani starts to pitch and, and continues to put up big time numbers, even if they're not the numbers Judge puts up. He's pitching. And if he's pitching at a high level, they're gonna give him the award every single time. Peter, they're not gonna. The war won't at that point. The war will matter if it's a large discrepancy, but a unicorn's gonna win that award. Now, Don, Peter and I had a spirited debate in the break about this. Interesting.

Peter Rosenberg (27:54)

You're damn right we do.

Don Hahn (27:55)

Why would I not include it? What is. Well, headphones on and everything. Pushing both buttons. Very difficult. What level does Ohtani have to go down to at both for you to still say that he wins the MVP? 30 home runs a year with a sub three ERA as a starter with double digit wins. Like when does it get to be the point of he has to do one of them exceptionally while doing the other one pretty good. Yeah. I still think one has to be exceptional and you can live with the other one that being just very good. But if both are good, all right, he's a unicorn. But you know, it's still not at the level. And where are the Dodgers while this is happening? See, I think he gets it even at that level. I think he gets it every time. I think you're right. If the Dodgers are winning 100 games and winning the division now, if the Dodgers missed the playoffs, I could see people going, well, he was good at both, but the Dodgers weren't very good. So I think he hurt him. You know, the fact that he wasn't as good a pitcher and wasn't as good a hitter and they finished with, and they finished with 85 wins and missed the playoffs. I don't think he gets the MVP unless it's like a weak year and there's nobody else having a great season. But if he's still hitting north of 30 home runs and batting over.280 and driving over 100 runs and he's pitching to an under three earned run average and the Dodgers are going to the playoffs. He's going to win this thing every year. But it's so unfair. Now as much as Judge is doing things we've never seen a right handed hitter do, to see a guy pitch and hit is just, you can't even wrap your mind around it. And you saw it in that game three of the World Series. Like nobody could do that. Pitch six innings, strike out 10 and hit three home runs. When again, that doesn't happen.

Peter Rosenberg (29:42)

It's wild.

Don Hahn (29:42)

It's wild. And then, yeah, you just can't do it.

Peter Rosenberg (29:47)

And we're talking about a guy who, you know, Don, he's hitting close to 50 home runs and batting what close to 260, then gets to the playoffs and has and wins games basically on his back completely. It's going to be very interesting to see how far this thing goes and how many there are for Shohei Otani.

Don Hahn (30:08)

That's the thing was that he had three home runs in game three and then in his pitching the next day, like, and I think I told the story on the air when I was like talking to Sheldon Keefe, the Devil's head coach. We're talking spoiler like that would be like Jack Hughes in game three of the Stanley cup final scoring a hat trick and then he's the starting goaltender the next game. You can't even think about that. I don't even know if there's equivalent in basketball. I don't think there is one. It would, I guess would be in football. You're the starting quarterback and then you know what, you're playing corner at an elite level.

Peter Rosenberg (30:46)

But again, there's no comp.

Don Hahn (30:49)

That's the thing. There's no, it's a great point. There's no comp. There is no comp to what Ohtani's been doing other than Babe Ruth, the Babe a hundred years ago. And you know what? They could have made it up. There's nobody to confirm or deny, which I've always joked about, right. Like, like we know he did both but you know, well, we were at war. The level it was a hundred years ago, you know, it could have just been a big practical joke that just survived 100 years. There's no video footage, there's, you know, just this. There's stories like that's, that's the level that this is at. We know Ruth did what he did, but like there's nobody walking the earth that saw it and now we're seeing it. I know, I know.

Peter Rosenberg (31:35)

And listen, I, I do. I will say you Cannot nitpick the World Series. All right? It's too good to nitpick. And Yamamoto winning three games was ridiculous. But Don, obviously the one thing that would have made it one notch sweeter would be that if Ohtani's Game seven outing had been awesome. Yeah, but you know, and it didn't require Yamamoto being awesome to win it. That, that would have been. It was icing on the cake.

Don Hahn (32:08)

I never, we never got into this, but because I was on the road when it was going on, so we were doing the shows. We weren't together. The text thread of how like, like describing Ohtani's performance in Game seven is a dud. It's like, really, what do you expect the guys.

Peter Rosenberg (32:29)

Well, no, it was for the record. You're talking about Alan Hahn.

Don Hahn (32:33)

Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (32:33)

Han called it a dud. And I was like, well, what? I think he gave up three runs in the end.

Don Hahn (32:38)

I think, I think it was four. But, but you're right, it wasn't a quality start because he gave up four. I think over.

Peter Rosenberg (32:44)

Was it four in the end?

Don Hahn (32:45)

You sure, it ended up being four.

Peter Rosenberg (32:48)

But like, we acted like he came out and stunk up the joint right in his second game in like 50 hours.

Don Hahn (32:55)

But, but I, but I understand Yankee fans saying, hey, wait a minute, look at what Judge is doing. We are. There is a level of taking for granted what Judge is doing because we see it all the time. And quite frankly, Yankee fans, the fact that you don't appreciate it because you're waiting for the ring. Right. So you ignored his 61, 62 home runs because all he kept thinking, oh, he better do it in the postseason. Nobody cares about the mvp. Nobody. He could do a thousand home runs. Words. Well, what's he doing in the postseason? They're a little galvanized now because he was phenomenal in the postseason this year and it wasn't his fault they didn't win. But you know, when you talk about Yankee fans being sensitive, that not appreciation. Appreciating at some level the unicorn that judges. But I would fight back and say I think Yankee fans don't necessarily appreciate it because it hasn't resulted in a championship. But this is the greatest right handed batter I've ever seen. And he might turn out to be, if not already the greatest right handed batter, period. It's not nothing. And when you start talking about the greatest hitters of all time, you know, and you bring Barry Bonds. Well, Barry, there's a little. There's a conversation to be had there about other reasons some things that you may not care about. But there's still things.

Peter Rosenberg (34:17)

But it's still. It's still part of the discussion.

Don Hahn (34:19)

It's still part of the discussion. Right. So remember, we. We're having this discussion about how great judges. Yeah. Five minutes ago, we're arguing with callers that they would still take Jeter and. And that I had the audacity to say that Judge is a better player than Derek Jeter. Come on. Derek Jeter was a winner. He's great. That's.

Peter Rosenberg (34:42)

That's a Derek Jeter.

Don Hahn (34:43)

He's not Judge. Sorry. And you know who would be the first person in line to tell you that? Derek Jeter. Now.

Peter Rosenberg (34:50)

Yeah, but the thing is, people, when they hear this, Don, it's happening right now. There's someone in their car right now cursing.

Don Hahn (34:56)

He's punching, punching the dash.

Peter Rosenberg (34:58)

He's punching air. He's punching the dash. He's biting down on his. He's breaking his cigar off in his mouth. Okay. That's the kind of guy, the kind of guy we're talking about. He's on the west side highway smoking a cigar.

Don Hahn (35:09)

Yeah. Yes.

Peter Rosenberg (35:10)

But you have to understand, Don's not saying he's greater than. Than Derek Jeter. He's saying he's better than Derek Jeter. The greatness of Derek Jeter, we understand it comes in the games played. It comes in the consistency. It comes in the playoffs. No one's. That's not a conversation. But when you look at just the level, the level of ball player, the skill set, the talent, that's what Don's talking about. And it's. I'm telling you, I mean, there's a chance that when you, when you look at skill set and talent. Don't. Aaron Judge may already be sitting at table one all time.

Don Hahn (35:48)

You know, I want to give Anthony credit because he just said in my ear. Can you imagine a debate, whispered it in your ear? No, he was. He was pretty emphatic.

Ryan Reynolds (35:55)

Okay.

Don Hahn (35:57)

Can you imagine a debate in Boston that David Ortiz is better than Ted Williams? Can you imagine having that conversation?

Peter Rosenberg (36:11)

I cannot.

Don Hahn (36:11)

Ortiz was a dh, so. And Judge is a really good shortstop. But the point is, if you're just going to lay out rings, that's. That's not fair. You know, you want to say Jeter was the better winner. Yeah, no question. But the better ball player.

Peter Rosenberg (36:30)

It'S just hard for people to separate. And I get it. I get it.

Don Hahn (36:33)

Know, if it's a popularity contest, Jeter wins going away. You know, if it's. Who do. Who do I want a big spot. Yeah, you probably would take Jeter to get that base hit than Judge, based on the history in the postseason. As good as Judge's postseason was this year, overall, Jeter was money. But, you know, it's two separate conversations. 1-800-919-3776 We've got our picks coming up and we've got Ennis coming up at 6 o' clock as well, but he's been on hold for a while. I want to squeeze in Alex and Lynbrook because he's been on hold for a bit. We do have a second. So, Alex, what do you got, buddy?

Caller (37:08)

Oh, hi. Just take a break from baseball for a minute. I think I'm interested.

Don Hahn (37:12)

I think.

Caller (37:13)

Peter, seen a movie, Scarecrow, with Al Pacino and Gene Hackman?

Peter Rosenberg (37:17)

I've never seen it.

Don Hahn (37:18)

I have not seen it. No, it sounds okay. No, I've not seen it.

Caller (37:23)

There's a scene at the end that he has a dramatic phone call with this woman, and she turned out to be the head teller in Scarecrow. I mean, I'm sorry. In Dog Day Afternoon.

Don Hahn (37:34)

Okay, that idea.

Caller (37:37)

If I give you a comment on you're calling the Devil's games, do you want to know what happened to the third robber, Stevie, in real life? What he never made in real life, he never made it to the bank. He saw a cop car in the neighborhood and he got scared and went home. But they still caught him. But the judge was leaning. He gave him two years in federal prison because he said, you didn't participate in the robbery and the kidnapping, but you conspired to do it. So he gave him two years. Now, I'm not a Devils fan, but I have been watching more Devils games, and it is a sincere compliment. You make the game more exciting and more passionate. I was watching. The Devils were on tnt. Nothing against those announcers, but I didn't feel, you know, that I had passion or heart. There was one game, it was like a little less than three minutes you were calling. And the best way I can describe it, Donny, was I felt like you were on the ice. That's how much you were like, into calling the game. And you really make the game better to watch. I know a lot of sports.

Don Hahn (38:46)

You don't. That's. Alex, that's very nice for you to say that. Beautiful. I. I love what I do. And that's what I think comes out on the ice, is how many games.

Peter Rosenberg (38:56)

Enter you right now, don?

Don Hahn (38:58)

15. And.

Peter Rosenberg (39:00)

And are you having as much fun as you thought you would?

Don Hahn (39:02)

Oh, yeah, I'm having an absolute ball. Yeah. No, it's been like you're stoked every night.

Peter Rosenberg (39:07)

You're, you're loving it.

Don Hahn (39:08)

I'm very stoked. Even though everybody, they're dropping like flies on me. I still know this is, this is great. I think Don really hit his stride around game six. Game seven.

Peter Rosenberg (39:19)

Why is that? Oh, who are you? Jonathan Vilma?

Don Hahn (39:24)

Wilma. Well, you know, I'm proud. I didn't get that right away, but I guess I'm an old man.

Peter Rosenberg (39:32)

By the way, it's Jonathan Vilma, right?

Don Hahn (39:35)

I believe it's Wilma.

Peter Rosenberg (39:38)

I still don't understand why he did the 6, 7 thing with Trump. I just thought that was so, like, it's just so cringe. Any person 40 and up legitimately trying to do a six, seven.

Don Hahn (39:49)

Here's. It's not the only thing that I, and I'm not saying that I would do it and I even saying it's acceptable, but did somebody dare that? Somebody bear. I bet you wouldn't drop a 6, 7 in front of the President. And he's like, all right, by the.

Peter Rosenberg (40:06)

Way, you know what? I think you're right. It has to be right.

Don Hahn (40:11)

Just knowing players the way I kind of know, I could see somebody saying, oh, you gotta go talk to trouble. See if you can drop a six seven on. Well, no.

Peter Rosenberg (40:17)

And maybe he's having a conversation. He's going, I don't know what to say to this guy. And they're like, well, all you can do is just keep it generic. And you're not going to like, have a serious interview. You're just going to let him say what he says. And he goes, well, how could I spice it up? What if you drop a 6, 7 on him? There you go, that'll pop the kids.

Don Hahn (40:34)

And he's like, what's going to happen to me? I'm Jonathan Vilma. And in certain circles, that carries some weight.

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Peter Rosenberg (42:29)

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Don Hahn (42:32)

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Don Hahn (42:36)

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Peter Rosenberg (42:47)

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Don Hahn (42:50)

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Peter Rosenberg (42:59)

Thanks for listening to the Don, Han and Rosenberg podcast. I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Alan Hahn (43:04)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Peter Rosenberg (43:12)

What's the game called?

Don Hahn (43:13)

Football.

Alan Hahn (43:13)

These are the Don, Han and Rosenberg pro picks.

Caller (43:18)

Dance football.

Don Hahn (43:25)

For our picks. You know, I tell you, not good, Bob, not good at all. But I'm creeping a little closer to 500. I did.

Peter Rosenberg (43:34)

Well, you're creeping towards respectables.

Don Hahn (43:36)

What you're doing. I am. So with the victory that I had, I am now 15 and 16 and because it was my three point play, I've got 28 points now. That is good enough for first place. Alan Hahn went over three so he's 11 and 1921 as Al.

Peter Rosenberg (43:59)

God, he's barely ahead of me. What a loser.

Don Hahn (44:01)

Now, Peter had a good week. He went 2 and 1, but he lost his two point play. So he is 9 and 22 because of the loss last night. Can, you know, honestly 19 points.

Peter Rosenberg (44:10)

Can. Can someone pull up the stats when you get a moment? Someone, some way of what my record was a. The last few years. I just need to compare it because I'm. L. Thank you, Anthony. I want. I. I want the hard numbers because this is insane.

Don Hahn (44:27)

You're the Atlanta Braves this year, a perennial playoff team that all of a sudden just finished grossly under.500.

Peter Rosenberg (44:32)

I mean, this is insane. What's happening 9 to 22.

Don Hahn (44:35)

But Alan, thank you for joining us. I know it's been a tough day for you.

Alan Hahn (44:38)

Well, thanks for having me, boys.

Peter Rosenberg (44:40)

But if by, if by tough you mean sitting back, having a little Starbucks, maybe relaxing with the fight.

Don Hahn (44:46)

I know Alan, and he was expecting to work today. And the fact that he didn't work makes him sick. Am I right?

Peter Rosenberg (44:51)

He was sick all day.

Alan Hahn (44:52)

You have no idea how pissed off I am today.

Don Hahn (44:55)

Right?

Alan Hahn (44:55)

Seriously. It's because you make all this trouble. All this trouble that you put into bringing everything you need to set yourself up, and everything is set up perfectly and nothing works. You know how I get asked, Ask Jake what I do when I set up somewhere and it's not working. The amount of cursing I do. Screaming, yelling. The poor guy that came to the door that was like, I heard your TV doesn't work. I'm like, bud thought about the tv. I was like, get your ass in here.

Don Hahn (45:22)

We got some, right?

Alan Hahn (45:23)

Then you knew that there was this guy. No, just. And this poor man, by the time he left, I swear he was. He was reconsidering his choice of working at this hotel.

Peter Rosenberg (45:34)

You.

Alan Hahn (45:35)

You yelled.

Peter Rosenberg (45:36)

You yelled at poor Schneider.

Alan Hahn (45:38)

I didn't yell, per se. It was more of just a stern talking to.

Peter Rosenberg (45:44)

Tell you what, this is. I got. Can I tell you something? This is a. This is a beautiful phone line. We could have actually maybe had him on the show today.

Don Hahn (45:51)

We could have maybe covered. We might have been able to work with this.

Alan Hahn (45:54)

We could have done it this. Are you serious? All this time you're telling me this now?

Peter Rosenberg (45:58)

My son.

Alan Hahn (45:59)

My son has warm ups and in a half hour, warm ups begin at the arena.

Peter Rosenberg (46:03)

But Don, am I crazy?

Don Hahn (46:04)

No. It would have been irritating after a while. But it is a nice one. But. So I'll. I'll go first because I'm in first place and I've got my three point play already in the books as the jets covered barely but they did cover and I thought Peter made a very good point that I had it all the way even though it was only by a half point. Felt pretty good. And same logic why I'm going with Washington getting two and a half in Madrid for their game because it makes no sense that Washington should cover. But I'm going to go with the same logic. It worked for me with the jets. So that's my two point play. So I've got the one play. I think the Bills are going to bounce back. I you hate to think and they shouldn't be in a situation that they're in a perennial playoff team fancying themselves a Super bowl champion that should have got caught in a trap game in Miami last week and I'm sure they're red hot. The second that game zeroed out all they thought about was beating up on their next opponent. Now next opponent's pretty good. Tampa Bay Bucks are not nothing but you're coming home feeling it after losing to Miami. Kind of wasting the vibe of winning over Kansas City the last time you were home home. It's only five and a half. I think the Bills bounce back cover the five and a half for my one point play.

Alan Hahn (47:25)

Alan Hahn, you are impressive. Impressive logic going with a couple of the things that you decided to do there. I, I like all of it, Don. I like all of it. And last night was a good win for you but not a quality watch for the rest of us.

Don Hahn (47:40)

Not even at the least.

Alan Hahn (47:41)

That was a tough, not a quality quality watch whatsoever. All right, my one point play. First of all, I have to have a redemption week. So I'm, I'm taking it out and I'm laying it on the table for all to say I'm going all in. One point play. Chargers at Jacksonville. Chargers are rolling. Three straight wins. Harbaugh, when he comes east, does he ever lose?

Peter Rosenberg (48:03)

Rarely.

Alan Hahn (48:04)

Jacksonville's coming off an embarrassing just blew a 19 point lead to Davis Mike Mills, which means that defense has some serious issues, don't they? So give me the Chargers. I'll lay the two and a half for my one point play. Two point play. I'm feeling la. I'm Hollywood this week so I'm going to take the Rams. I'm going to lay the three and a half against Seattle. That's right because Matthew Stafford's a true MVP candidate here. Sam Darnold still has to prove it. Two seven two teams. This is a very interesting game, a very fun watch but I'm feeling Hollywood. So give Me la. Give me the Rams. Lay the three and a half for my three.

Don Hahn (48:44)

Three, three, three, three, three.

Alan Hahn (48:47)

This game's going to be a fun game. You got the Eagles. You got the Lions. The Eagles dominate at home. They've won 13 in the last 14. Dan Campbell's calling plays again. It worked pretty well against your commies, Peter. How will it do against Vic Fangio and them boys? I don't think it's going to go as well. Give me the Eagles. I'll lay the two and a half. That's right. I'm taking all the favorites, but that's the only way you can have a redemption week.

Don Hahn (49:18)

I like it. Play it safe, right? Their favorites for a reason that's in their home.

Alan Hahn (49:23)

So give me the charges on the road for the one. Give me the Rams at home for the two. Give me the Eagles at home for the three.

Don Hahn (49:31)

One, two, three point blitz. Peter.

Peter Rosenberg (49:37)

All right. I'm, I'm. I'm all over the place mentally, emotionally, physically. I'm dealing with a lot here. There's just so much.

Don Hahn (49:48)

Ballard texted him, take the packers by.

Peter Rosenberg (49:51)

Oh, my God, would he ever.

Don Hahn (49:52)

I don't.

Peter Rosenberg (49:53)

He makes me sick. He's texting me. He's texting me the whole game. Last night they're good, right? The second, the second the jets go up seven, nothing. I went, see, Ballard, this is why I was not feeling them. This was a weird game. He goes, oh, they're fine. The whole night, they're good. They're good. Get to the fourth quarter, I'm like, hey, hey, Ballard. Once they, once they settled for a field goal. You remember that drive? They had a chance to blow it open. They settled for a few. I went, it's not happening, dude.

Alan Hahn (50:22)

Yeah, yeah. They don't care about you. They don't care about your damn parlay.

Don Hahn (50:26)

Peter. They're taking the three points.

Peter Rosenberg (50:28)

Well, Alan and I are in lockstep on the Chargers. And as Alan laid it out, I started thinking, oh, no, the Jaguars are in the same spot as the Commanders. Like there's no reason they should win. And then they win outright. But I'm going to go with my. The logic here. The Chargers are figuring this thing out. The Jaguars seem to be going the wrong way. It's a short number. I'll take the Chargers, given the two and a half. And then this will make it exciting. I'm going right up against Allen on the three point play.

Don Hahn (50:59)

How about that? Wait, three, three, three, three.

Alan Hahn (51:03)

You didn't even go to yet.

Don Hahn (51:05)

No, he already. Two was last Fight. Oh, two.

Alan Hahn (51:07)

I'm trying. Two was last night. Oh, my bad.

Peter Rosenberg (51:13)

I'm taking.

Ryan Reynolds (51:16)

Baby.

Peter Rosenberg (51:17)

This is a heart pick. Don. You know I love rolling with the Lions. I just feel like I know this is bad logic. The Eagles are just due at some point. That was an ugly game. They escaped last week against the Packers. The Lions to me, are finding it. And even though the commanders like a junior varsity team at this point, they were damn impressive last week. They're putting it on, people. Give me the Lions to get a big win now. They'll probably have to play this thing again potentially in Philly again in January. I don't know if they'll get that one, but I, I think they're getting this one. Give me the Lions as my three point play.

Don Hahn (51:55)

All right.

Alan Hahn (51:55)

Oh, head to head. Head to head.

Don Hahn (51:58)

Me and you.

Peter Rosenberg (51:58)

It's. It's moving day, something.

Don Hahn (52:01)

It's week 11 moving. You've got to make it later on for sure. So we've missed you terribly today. So hopefully everything will be back to normal on Monday.

Alan Hahn (52:12)

I am expecting that, yes. I'm just, I'm hoping to have some fun tonight to see my boy play. So I appreciate you guys for giving me that opportunity.

Don Hahn (52:20)

All right, Got it, man. Be well, be safe. Enjoy Albany and hopefully your son has a great game. We've got a great ENN. It's coming up next right here on ESPN New York.

Peter Rosenberg (52:30)

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Alan Hahn (53:21)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Peter Rosenberg (53:24)

I don't want to know how the.

Alan Hahn (53:25)

Sausage is made, but I just want to know what's on Going Hear more.

Peter Rosenberg (53:27)

Of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

Don Hahn (53:38)

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