← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
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- [00:01]
Alan Hahn
Are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with powerboost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different. And Messi only trusts Duracell.
- [00:31]
Peter Rosenberg
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:35]
Alan Hahn
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:36]
Peter Rosenberg
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. 502 in the big city, as one great man likes to say. With Don Lagra and Peter Roseberg, I'm Alan Hahn. 800 now, 93776 is the number for your calls. We'll get to those. And if you missed David Stern's news conference, his meeting with the New York media, that was salivating and they were, they had, they were coming to him like he was just a piece of red meat. I will play you some of the most interesting things he had to say. They weren't many of them. And Francisco Lindor's reaction to Carlos Mendoza being fired. But before we get to that, fellows, we do have some breaking news from Sham Charamia involving the Knicks. Okay, Jose Alvarado, who you remember earlier this week, had a deadline to pick up his player option for next season, he asked to push it off until today. He has made a decision. He's declining his $4.5 million player option. However, he intends to sign a new 3 year, 14 plus million dollar deal to return to the Knicks.
- [01:47]
Don LaGreca
Yay.
- [01:48]
Peter Rosenberg
This is, according to sources telling espn, so Alvarado, who they acquired at the trade deadline, had turned into a very vital piece to this team off the bench and was a huge piece if you think about how they started using him with Brunson in the NBA Finals. And that worked famously. He has been celebrating literally ever since they won this championship. He's now in Puerto Rico. His native Puerto Rico celebrating has a Larry o' Brien with him. And this is good news. So instead of just picking up his option for next year, the Knick said, how about we just extend you off your current contract? And so at least you know, Alvarado is one piece they are keeping off the bench mode. Dior is a piece they intend to keep as well. But Mitchell Robinson sounds like we do have audio from him. Sounds like he's going to explore free agency. And once he does, word is it's expected he's going to get some offers that the Knicks can't possibly match with their payroll situation. The other names, Landry, Shammit. But so far at least Alvarado stays in the fold. And that's.
- [02:48]
Alan Hahn
Well, that's a, that's a key. Alvarado is a key piece and not, not just because he's a feel good New York, you know, Puerto Rican story that we all love.
- [02:57]
Peter Rosenberg
True.
- [02:57]
Alan Hahn
But, but he's also like, you know, this was a team who needed you. Remember when OG got the ball thrown at him?
- [03:04]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [03:05]
Alan Hahn
And we were just like, dude, why Desmond Bain, as someone close to the team said to me, I thought this is well said. Prior to the, to the acquisitions they made mid season, everyone on this team was someone you would gladly have date your daughter. Like, hey, sure, they're the sweetest guys in the world. They needed a, a little bit of edge. And so you can't forget the pieces in Alvarado and Clarkson that they brought in to give the team a little bit more swagger, a little bit more edge. That's, that's a, that's a nice one to keep. If you're a Knicks fan. Yeah.
- [03:41]
Don LaGreca
This is.
- [03:42]
Alan Hahn
And listen, you take it if you're a Nick fan or a fan of any team that wins a championship. But there's always, there's always going to be somebody that doesn't come back, somebody that you like. And especially in the salary cap era, there's always going to be a player that contributed that is going to leave, but that player still will forever be in your heart no matter where they end up. And you know, Mitch looks like he's going to be one of those guys that's going to go.
- [04:06]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, we do have audio. So Mitchell Robinson down in his in. And I think it's. It's Shelmet. Right. Shellmet in New. Outside of New Orleans. Okay. He went down to his hometown and celebrated or they celebrated him. And so the local ABC news caught up with him and interviewed him and they asked him about his future with the Knicks and whether or not he can stay in New York and what's going to happen with free agency. And this was the answer he gave. We can see what happens.
- [04:33]
Alan Hahn
It will be great, you know, try
- [04:35]
Peter Rosenberg
to do it to run back again, you know, try to go back to back and stuff like that.
- [04:38]
Alan Hahn
You know, defending champs with, you know, that was. That's very a poss.
- [04:43]
Peter Rosenberg
So how did that sound to you guys?
- [04:45]
Alan Hahn
It sounds like if it could work out, he'd love to be back. There's a possibility.
- [04:52]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. I think he also look and if you represent him at his age and where he is in his career, you have to test free agency and see what kind of money you can get because this is his chance to really cash in. And I hate this. The rules same, my same argument with the NFL. If I draft a player and I draft well, why am I penalized by the system for being able to keep my player? And this is the example of it. A player like him shouldn't count against the second apron. It's my own guy. Why would the second apron. Why if I go over the second apron to keep my own player. That doesn't make sense to me. I understand if you want to control spending. If you're the owners in a league want to make sure that the rich teams can't outspend everybody by grabbing every free agent. Right. I understand that. But if I draft well, why am I penalized? Why does it count against me where now I'm triple taxed because I'm re signing a guy that I drafted in 2018 who's turned into a really important player, but I can't do that now. I've said this about the NFL many years. I hate that you draft one. I got to make a decision between two guys. Maybe I had two top 10 picks and I both up at the same time and I got to decide which one I want because I can't afford both. That doesn't make sense to me.
- [06:09]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, you're right. Because I understand the salary cap and the salary cap. You all should be every. Everybody should be on the same floor.
- [06:18]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [06:19]
Alan Hahn
You shouldn't get any kind of distinctive. Because anywhere in life, if I'm playing Monopoly with you, you shouldn't have more money than me to start the game. And that's unfair, you know. So you understand that the fairness and the salary cap. But that's usually for free agents. Yeah, but if I'm a team that can afford to keep the player I drafted, I should be able to keep him. He should not get thrown to free agency where somebody else can gobble him up. It just doesn't seem that that to me is counterintuitive. That's not an unfair advantage. What it is is, hey, he's rewarding the teams that draft well.
- [06:54]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [06:54]
Alan Hahn
I drafted well and now I want to have the ability to be able to keep that guy.
- [07:00]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [07:01]
Alan Hahn
The free agents I get because let's face it, LeBron James becomes a free agent, there's gonna be certain teams in certain markets that aren't gonna be able
- [07:07]
Peter Rosenberg
to afford the pay I Don't disagree with that.
- [07:09]
Alan Hahn
And that takes away from the competition of the free agent. But should there be equal competition for players I drafted now? I guess the players will say, well, wait a minute, all right, Just because you drafted me doesn't mean that, that now I'm stuck here.
- [07:23]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, you're not stuck. No, see, because Mitch is not stuck. He becomes an unrestricted free agent. All I'm saying is, can I compete to keep my guy? Because, for instance, you know, I'm just throwing it out there. I don't know anything, I'm not reporting anything. But let's just say Sacramento Kings, they have tons of cap space. Brooklyn Nets, tons of cab space, right? Both teams that need centers, defensive centers say they both want to get crazy and they just, like, they want to bring them in and they give him 25 million a year, right? There's no way Mitch says no to that. So he, you know, he, he's going to take something of that level. Obviously, as we know, with the Knicks in their, their situation, if they tried to match a contract like that, it would put them over the second apron, which then would cost them triple the tax and triple all the stuff. And that puts too much of a restriction on them as a franchise. So they obviously would say, we, we just can't do this. That doesn't make sense to me. So Mitch could, could say, well, I still want to go to Sacramento or Brooklyn. Okay, fine, but at least give me a chance to compete. And I can't because of this. It's my own player. Like you said, it's not like I'm going out and I'm trying to sign a top free agent because I just want to get, you know, gluttonous and add another top free agent to my team or trade for one. That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is I, I draft a guy, I developed him, and I'm going to lose him all because of these silly rules. That doesn't make sense. That's all I'm saying.
- [08:46]
Alan Hahn
But it's also some teams manage the cap differently and it could make, it could stick to a, hey, I don't want to go into the second apron. Right? And if you don't let them go into second apron, then there still could be a chance that there are players that want to leave, but then, but then can't, I guess, because now they got to take less money to stay. I, I, but I do hear, overall, I do hear what you're saying.
- [09:10]
Peter Rosenberg
It's something that I Think needs to. Needed to be discussed at least here. But Mitchell Robinson still going to be up the air, up in the air if July 1, when free agency begins. Landry Shamon, another one. But at least we know, according to Shams, who just reported that Jose Alvarado will be staying with the Knicks intending to sign an extension probably on the other side of July 1st.
- [09:30]
Alan Hahn
So as somebody that did a lot of work for the draft, meaning you. Yeah, I know it saved the money trading their first round pick, but was there anybody there at 30 that could have maybe been a big man that could have helped them if they lose?
- [09:47]
Peter Rosenberg
Mitch, you could say, yeah, there were. There were a bunch of names that, you know, like, of. Of big men that you could have looked at. I'll tell you though, I'll tell you what. There was a guy. We had him at the table because at pick 53, which is pretty late in the go, there was a guy. It was a Gama Onyenso. He's From Virginia, shop blocker, 611, 75 reach. Just an incredible physical size that he has led the nation at Virginia in block shots. This is his specialty, defense and rebounding. He. It was the. Originally the Rockets pick, but because of all those, the swaps they made, he sat down with a Rocket's hat. And I said, you know, that's the Knicks pick. You're going to New York. You're going to be here in New York. And he had, you know, his face lit up and he was smiling about it. And in my head I'm going, this is the guy they'll have to develop to try to replace Robinson because they know they're going to lose him because a lot of the same type of stuff. And PJ Carlismo was sitting with me, who had seen him. That's what he was saying to me, like, off air, he's just like, you know, he's got all the skill set that you could just turn him into that kind of guy off the bench. While we were interviewing him, Shams reported that the Knicks were then flipping this pick to the Detroit Pistons. So I was like, all right, that's. You're on three teams in 30, you know, in a minute and a half. But that's one that I thought this made sense. The others, you know, defensively, you know, you had some guys who were good offensively, seven footers, but there was some issues about them defensively or ability to move, especially on the perimeter, because one of Mitch's strengths is to be able to guard on the perimeter. So the answer, the long winded answer, Don, is no. I don't think there was anybody there that I thought could have had that kind of impact other than Agneso, who I thought maybe they would give a chance to. But they didn't. They took two tough guards who can shoot threes. The two guys they did take tough as nail kids and they're both like very good, tough three point shooters. And so I think they made it clear what they were looking for. When it comes to depth, they're going to try to find someone at the center position. If they lose Mitch, I don't know who it's going to be and it's not going to be easy to do, but it's going to be a major concern. Before we get back to calls and we'll get into the David Stern stuff and what Sterns had to say about firing Carlos Mendoza, I do want to tell you that in New York, every block is a business and every minute counts. And Amazon Hub Delivery lets you earn extra revenue from the business you already run. You and your staff can deliver packages right in your neighborhood on a schedule that works for you. Bryant and the crew at 165 Hardware in Washington Heights deliver during their stores, afternoon downtime. And Bryant says that the extra revenue from Amazon Hub Delivery helps the bottom line and delivering has given the business more visibility to and connection to their community.
- [12:42]
Alan Hahn
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- [12:44]
Peter Rosenberg
No delivery experience, no long term contracts, and no startup costs either. So if you're a New York local business and you're ready to make your next move, visit Amazon.com hubdelivery that's Amazon.com hub delivery. So do you guys want to take calls or hear like replay some of the Stern stuff and also hear from Francisco Lindor? What do you want to do?
- [13:07]
Alan Hahn
I guess we could refresh. It's been a couple of hours. Many people might have still been at work when Stern spoke. Don't expect to be enlightened at all or just get fired up to put your messages. These aren't days for enlightening.
- [13:21]
Peter Rosenberg
No, this is more of just, you know, this, this is where you start to clench your fist as a fan. But I will say this. This is, these are the days where the New York media really does have its moment to shine because they put him on the grill. Imagine being asked this question, have you considered stepping aside as gm? His answer?
- [13:41]
Don LaGreca
I have not.
- [13:41]
Alan Hahn
Why not?
- [13:43]
Caller
I believe
- [13:48]
Don LaGreca
that we are building the foundation of an organization that can deliver what we all want. I don't believe that our Record on the field this year is indicative of some of the advancements that we've made in an organization, but clearly our record is nowhere good enough.
- [14:06]
Alan Hahn
Now, you can make the case that that's the best sound as far as the vibe of the press conference. And my follow up would have been, well, wait a minute, David. You said this team was going to be better this year than they were last year. And to refresh your memory, they won 83 games last year. So. So you say that the record's not indicative, but. And you also said later on in the press conference that, you know, it's all about winning and losing. You know, so I don't know what exactly it is you're looking at. That's another excellent follow up that we talked about earlier in the show me. All right, the record isn't indicative, then. Where is it indicative? Is it the young players you called up, raking? Well, like I said, Ewing's been good, but, you know, nobody has, like, floored us with their performances when they've been called up from Syracuse. Is it some analytical number you're going to throw at me that doesn't completely represent, you know, your record? What are we, the Cleveland Cavaliers now? Are we looking at a different scoreboard than what actually exists? Kenny Atkins, Was he. Was he hired by the Mets when I wasn't looking? Atkinson. That's the kind of feel I'm getting. It's like, no, no, you guys are too stupid to understand how good we are. You know, you guys are amateurs. You just look at the record. Well, we look and we. No, no. It's all about wins and losses, brother. Especially when you told us this team was gonna be better than they were last year. You're 13 games under.500. So what kind of language, what kind of game are we playing here? Show me. They talk about opening the books during the labor stuff, and we're gonna find that out. That's gonna be set a lot over the winter. Show me, in the aggregate where exactly this team is better than they were last year, and the answer is no, you can't show me anything because they're not. They're not even close. So when you tell me that the record's not indicative or what this team, how this team is playing isn't indicative, what else are we supposed to go by, guys?
- [16:00]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, how about this again, These were good questions. And Stearns was asked about the players that he signed. Just what you talked about, Don, how they took a team from last year. He said, no, no, we're going to make changes and this team's going to be better than it was. So he made some massive changes around this team, taking away some long term Mets, adding new players. And so Stearns was asked of the players you signed with the team, have they, have they underachieved or what is the, what is the difference in this team?
- [16:28]
Don LaGreca
I think regardless of which side of that paradigm you fall on, the, the end result is we have not been good enough. And we need to evaluate not only why that is, but in the moment right now, do everything we can to get our players, our roster, our team as a whole moving forward. We've talked about, you know, why, right? Why, why? When you go through a half a season like this with players that in the past have performed at a really high level, it's never just one thing. There are multiple things that are contributing to this and we need to address all of them.
- [17:11]
Peter Rosenberg
All right, so word salad?
- [17:13]
Alan Hahn
Well, it's a word. But, but let's, let's say there's something there, okay? Because they brought in an interim manager in Green that is the president of player development, right? So he is going to be a fly on the wall, right? He's going to come down and kind of be, for lack of a better word, a spy that is going to manage this team. He's got no hope of staying on as manager beyond 2026. He's just there to evaluate what the problem is. Because Stearns can't, can't admit that he brought in the wrong players, right? So he's asking him, find out what, what, what's wrong with these guys? Why aren't they playing to the level I thought they were supposed to play? And so he's trying to figure out what is it, is there, is it the Soto Lure thing? Is that a problem? Was it completely Mendoza's fault? Is it is a lackadaisical team. He's going to go in there and see if there's a problem and then he's going to report back at the end of the year. And what if he tells him, no, there's nothing. This just seems not good enough. Yeah, then what happens? Well then does Cohen step in and go, okay, you're gone.
- [18:21]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, shouldn't the owner also be like, the owner needs to know, but there's no way that Green walks in to the two of them and goes, yeah, you know what? This, these players just suck. Like that's not going to happen. But all right, Fans are mad, as they should be. Of course they should be. Fans are already tired Of David Stearns.
- [18:39]
Don LaGreca
Yeah.
- [18:40]
Peter Rosenberg
Surprised that he's not the one going today.
- [18:42]
Alan Hahn
Yes.
- [18:43]
Peter Rosenberg
This could be the last days for him. Of course, this could be one of the last press conferences he ever holds. But he was asked, why should fans have confidence in you?
- [18:51]
Don LaGreca
I understand fan skepticism. If I were sitting in the fan seat, I would, I would share that. From my perspective, what I can do and what I will do is for as long as I'm sitting in this seat, work as hard as I can with the people around me to do everything we can to push this organization forward. And I think we're going to be
- [19:13]
Alan Hahn
able to do that.
- [19:14]
Peter Rosenberg
Another question, as long as I'm sitting
- [19:15]
Alan Hahn
in this seat, you know, another question I would have asked, and maybe this was asked because we didn't stick for the whole press conference.
- [19:21]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [19:23]
Alan Hahn
But one of the questions I would have asked is would you think about possibly changing your philosophy?
- [19:29]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [19:30]
Alan Hahn
You're going to work hard. And I'm not saying you don't work hard. Honestly, I don't think David Stearns has the Mets 13 games under.500 because he's lazy, because he's not showing up to work. You know, he's playing Nintendo instead of actually going down there and doing the job. I don't believe that. I believe he's working his ass off. The problem has been his philosophy, not believing in long term contracts, reclamation projects, finding, you know, that, that lightning in a bottle, right. That diamond in the rough. My biggest issue with him, it seems is that rather than taking a chance on a guy that could maybe be great, he seems to take a chance on guys that could be good. Doesn't it feel that way? Polanco in his best year was a good player. Simeon in his best player, was a good player. You know, I want a guy that potentially could be great. If you crash and burn, you crash and burn. But, but maybe if we're successful, can I have a great player instead of, oh, he's okay. We, we succeeded, we've got an okay player at first, you know, so that would be, my question is would you think about maybe changing the way you go about this? I don't need you working harder, I need you working. Right.
- [20:34]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, exactly. Smarter, maybe. Yeah, exactly. Like maybe you need to reassess what you're doing. All he can do though is point to his days in Milwaukee and say, hey, this all worked with the Brews. It's just not working here.
- [20:46]
Alan Hahn
I know, but that team continues to win in the two years, will not win championships, but they continue to be good. And I heard Michael say this, that you know, maybe, maybe, maybe he had help there. Maybe it wasn't all him because the team didn't drop out of the universe once he left. They continue to make trades, they continue to get better.
- [21:04]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, well, the players are certainly the ones. It sounded like Stearns was putting it on the players because he didn't want to put it all on, on, on Carlos Mendoza. Francisco Lindor, who's sort of the face of this franchise and de facto leader of this franchise, although they don't believe in captains, Lindor was given it gave this reaction to Mendoza being fired. I was shocked. And you know, he hurts. He's a great man, he's a great family man and somebody that we appreciate, we care for him. And yeah, it was shocking news. But obviously this decision, the Stearns and the restoration felt like it was going to be best for the organization at the moment. How could you be shocked as a player, how could you be shocked as a player that a manager gets fired when a team like this underperforms?
- [21:51]
Alan Hahn
Well, you wonder now with the modern day player, were they shocked because none of them demanded he be fired? They all said they loved him.
- [21:58]
Peter Rosenberg
Yep.
- [21:59]
Alan Hahn
So maybe they thought that would be enough or more. We started 9 and 19, so he survived that. So maybe we can, you know, survive. You know what this is, Peter? When, when, remember when I would lose a, a pick? No, I don't remember you ever losing, but no, but when I, when I would get a pick wrong and when we would do our NFL picks, you do it again. Exactly. That's what David Stearns is saying. It's their fault.
- [22:23]
Don LaGreca
Yeah.
- [22:23]
Alan Hahn
Do it again. I lost that bet because, because of the Cowboys. It's their fault. Yeah. I did what I was supposed to do. The Cowboys didn't do what they were supposed to do. I picked these players. I do it again. It's their fault.
- [22:35]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, how about this from Lindor. What did Mendoza say to you? He apologized for not helping us win as much. But at the end of the day, this is not on him. It's more on us, the players, that we even perform to our capabilities.
- [22:48]
Alan Hahn
I like that. I like that answer a lot.
- [22:50]
Peter Rosenberg
She's supposed to say, right?
- [22:52]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [22:53]
Caller
Buster.
- [22:53]
Alan Hahn
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- [23:34]
Peter Rosenberg
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- [24:04]
Don LaGreca
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Alan Hahn
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Peter Rosenberg
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Alan Hahn
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Don LaGreca
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- [24:35]
Peter Rosenberg
thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [24:39]
Don LaGreca
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [24:40]
Peter Rosenberg
Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. 800 now 193776 is the number we're going to get back to Calls, Met Calls, especially Nick calls certainly, because Jose Alvarado just tweeted I'm home with orange and blue hearts all over the place. So he's all fired up. If you're wondering why he's saying that is because Shams is reporting that he is. He is expected to sign a three year extension to stay in New York. So Brooklyn Zone stays in New York and that's great news. And I wonder, Anthony Pusick, if a fan wanted to get like a Alvarado jersey, where could he go? Well listen Allen, I'm sure they've got this here and here in New York. You're going to have to want to listen to this one.
- [25:28]
Alan Hahn
All lines lead the Champs Sports Fan Central Station, a soccer pop up shop
- [25:33]
Peter Rosenberg
open right in the heart of the
- [25:33]
Alan Hahn
city at 125 W. 33rd St. Now
- [25:36]
Peter Rosenberg
this is the soccer destination in New York.
- [25:37]
Alan Hahn
You Guys know I. I just told
- [25:39]
Peter Rosenberg
you about it last hour. Jerseys for every national team you ride with.
- [25:42]
Alan Hahn
Usa, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, and way more.
- [25:45]
Peter Rosenberg
Get that jersey before the knockout rounds start.
- [25:47]
Alan Hahn
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Peter Rosenberg
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- [25:55]
Alan Hahn
That's where you need to be. But as Allen mentioned, all you Knicks
- [25:58]
Peter Rosenberg
fans, they've got championship gear to celebrate your team's first title in 53 years. Perhaps an Alvarado's finals patch jersey.
- [26:05]
Alan Hahn
You never know. You never know.
- [26:09]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. 800-99377. What we do know is that Met fans have been calling and calling. They all have something to say about their franchise right now. Coincidentally, it's fireworks night tonight at Citi Field, which is nice, but the fireworks were early today. And Ian and Cranford has something to say about it. Ian, you're up next.
- [26:32]
Alan Hahn
Gentlemen, how we doing today? Thanks for taking the call.
- [26:34]
Peter Rosenberg
Good. Thanks for calling.
- [26:36]
Alan Hahn
Last time I called you guys, I. I was right around the Knicks hawk series. So thank God they took off there. Don, I got a question for you. When's the last time this team had a real leader on it? A real leader?
- [26:52]
Peter Rosenberg
Then who was it?
- [26:53]
Alan Hahn
I guess would be David Wright. I mean, he was the captain of the team. That's exactly the series. That was a long time ago, man. Since then. Since then there hasn't been anybody. And unfortunately, you know how to write. Career ended. There was no like straight hand to OC transfer of power. It immediately fell on the kids like
- [27:12]
Don LaGreca
Conforto and Syndergaard and Harvey.
- [27:15]
Alan Hahn
And then since then, nothing has carried over. And you guys know this leadership trickles
- [27:20]
Don LaGreca
down good and bad.
- [27:21]
Alan Hahn
So until they find a player or a of that ilk, this franchise is going to be stuck in the mud. And it just is what it is. But Ian.
- [27:30]
Peter Rosenberg
Thanks, Ian.
- [27:31]
Alan Hahn
The way baseball is constructed is that the only way you're going to be able to have true leadership is if you are a great player. This isn't like hockey or other sports where that fringe player can be a captain because he's a rah rah guy and everybody respects his journey. And he knows exactly what to say in the clubhouse or locker room to get the players motivated. Derek Jeter was a leader because he was the best player on the team. Didn't say a lot. He wasn't a rah rah guy, but he was a. He was a great player that everybody looked up to. They loved his origin story of a Kid drafted sixth overall and being a Yankee and all that stuff, and the pictures of him in a Yankee uniform, you know, from Paquanick, New Jersey, through Detroit or through Michigan. Aaron Judge is a leader because he's the best player on the planet. You know, they've got to find a player that's great and has the confidence to take that position. So I'm not defending the Mets. It's not like you can just go out and acquire these players. This has to happen organically. And analytic baseball doesn't allow for that, because they don't look at leadership. They just look at the raw numbers. Because if they looked outside the box, they'd say, you know what? Pete Alonso's got a place here. He's a really good player. He's a homegrown Met. The fans love him. We've got to try to make this work. He didn't even think about that because all he did was look at the raw numbers. And they told him, I think I could do better, and I think I could do it cheaper. So we're asking them to find a leader. They don't give a crap about that. That you have to. You have to stumble into it, right? Get a player that wants to be a leader, that's good enough to be a leader, and bang, there he is. Does anybody acquire leadership anymore? Do you ever hear any general manager at the trade deadline say, we acquired this player because he. He's got a good bat and he's got speed and he's got. He's a leader.
- [29:21]
Peter Rosenberg
Wasn't that Simeon, though? Wasn't he supposed to come in and be a good clubhouse guy that can. Oh, wasn't that his whole thing?
- [29:27]
Alan Hahn
But he stinks. You can't do it when you stink. You certainly can't do it when you're new. Like, it's hard when you're. When you're. You're the new guy there, you're struggling to stay on the field, you're struggling to play your position, you're struggling to get on base. You know, you think anybody's going to listen to you now?
- [29:48]
Peter Rosenberg
Now, Now, Don William in Long Island.
- [29:50]
Alan Hahn
Yes.
- [29:51]
Peter Rosenberg
He brings up an interesting parallel with this Mets situation. William, you're up next.
- [29:57]
Alan Hahn
Bill.
- [29:58]
Caller
Hi. How are you guys? Yes.
- [30:00]
Alan Hahn
So this, the recent, you know, situation with the Mets reminds me very much of the Boston Red Sox when Heim Bloom inherited the 2018 Red Sox, who won the. The World Series, and then, you know, went on to trade Mookie Betts, lost Xander Bogart, and now you have the Mets in a similar situation. David Stearns inherited the 2024 Mets. And even last year there was, you know, a lot of people were mentioning dismantling a team, but you have to remember there was. Jonah Tong was a young pitcher, had a lot of pressure on him towards the end of the season. And now we took a whole different transition and time. Bloom's tenure was relatively short. So I don't know how long this will last for David Stearns, but a lot of parallels and definitely reminds me very much.
- [30:47]
Peter Rosenberg
And Heim Blum was a. Everybody wanted him, right? He had built up this reputation, especially with the analytics and everybody wanted him and the Red Sox got him. Dabroski was out and it really was a disaster what he did with what was a team that was every other year playing for a championship.
- [31:05]
Alan Hahn
It is everything we hate about analytics and all right. He was an analytical guy.
- [31:10]
Peter Rosenberg
They didn't believe in Mookie's like the contract was big and they moved on from. And they didn't realize just how important he was in that clubhouse.
- [31:18]
Alan Hahn
What people just fail to remember because we all love Moneyball, that they, that the A's had no choice but to do this.
- [31:28]
Caller
Mm.
- [31:29]
Alan Hahn
And to sit here and be a slave to analytics and yet still have the second highest payroll in baseball. For the Yankees to still be that analytical and have the third highest payroll, you'd almost think to yourself, why am I spending all this money if all I have is a general manager trying to save me money? So shouldn't I have a $200 million payroll and use all that saved money then and put, put that money in my pocket? Why have a 350 million dollar payroll and we're still going out there and pinching pennies? Like, I don't get it like that. Why am I, why am I shopping at the, at the, at the, the Dollar store instead of Nordstrom's when I've got $23 billion? And you're never going to get your fan base to understand any logic behind that when the reason they. You were supposedly great is that you have the $23 billion.
- [32:16]
Peter Rosenberg
Sorry, but again, Heimblum's whole thing there when he took over was to reset their, their, their farm system. And so the whole thing like, we got to get more prospects, we know we're getting old and we don't have young players. And it was this, this whole notion, it's, it almost feeds into what a lot of fans who don't really. And I hate to sound like this, but sometimes this is true. There's a lot of fans who are passionate about sports that have never played sports. They don't understand how it works. So they look at it as a business and numbers and all that stuff. And you say, well, we need young guys. If you're really good right now, you can't worry about that. Guys are in their prime. Well, you got to get rid of them before they start falling off. So you now you're telling me, I'd rather be bad but have some young players that might be good versus I'm still good, I could still stay good for a couple more years. There's a lot of that that goes on between that. Not only just the analytics part of it, but it's that mentality of trying to always be ahead of the game rather than just be in the damn game. And that's what he did up there when he went to Boston. He tore that place. He tore that place apart. They have never been the same since.
- [33:27]
Alan Hahn
I'm telling you because I think Brian Cashman's guilty of this and I think Stearns is guilty of it too. They want their cake and eat it too, right? They go, they have all this money at their disposal, but they want to be like, no, I want to do it my way so nobody can accuse me of buying a championship. Nobody can accuse me that the only reason I won the championship because I was in a big market with all these finances, I. I'm going to prove to them that I can do it without having to give extra money and extra years in contract.
- [33:56]
Peter Rosenberg
Do the Dodgers give a rip what people say about them and all the money they spend or do they just hang banners?
- [34:01]
Alan Hahn
Do their fans go, I wish this
- [34:02]
Peter Rosenberg
was cheaper, you know, I wish we didn't do it this way, please.
- [34:06]
Caller
Now.
- [34:06]
Alan Hahn
And the other question that I wish was asked, maybe it was again, we didn't air the entire press conferences. Your philosophy, how much is it based on protection for what might be ahead with the labor strife? Like, are you not giving long term contracts because you don't know what this is going to look like in 27?
- [34:24]
Peter Rosenberg
I do think he was asked that last during the off season. I do think. I thought that came up and I thought he gave it. He didn't really give you an answer, but I thought that did come up
- [34:34]
Alan Hahn
because that is the only thing I'm hanging on. Look, guys, the only thing I'm hanging on to is, is that they will be one of the teams that are in better shape than others because of the fact they're in some contracts that are easy to get out of. They're not stuck with guys that are going to not be very good for another four or five years. A lot of these guys that are underperforming don't have much left on their contract. And you're also a good thing coming.
- [34:56]
Peter Rosenberg
That is true. You can reset. And you have to think that when, when they do come up with a new system that they're going to like the NBA did this. The amnesty provision, which will allow you to take one of your contracts that you feel is an albatross that won't work in the current system and you can eliminate it by buying out the player and the buyout doesn't count against whatever cap situation they're going to come up.
- [35:26]
Caller
Right.
- [35:27]
Peter Rosenberg
And so you're using amnesty for one contract and if you had to choose between Soto and Lindor, which one you're going to do?
- [35:36]
Alan Hahn
Probably Lindor.
- [35:37]
Peter Rosenberg
Right? Yeah.
- [35:40]
Alan Hahn
So that, and maybe I get out of that. Maybe that's. The logic is like, hey, I, I, if I bring back Pete Alonso and all of a sudden we're in a hard cap and I've got four years left on a guy and I can't do anything about it. All those fans could be jumping me for giving them the five year contract when they knew there was going to be labor strife around the corner. Again, it's, it's grasping at straws at this point, but maybe that could be the silver lining in all of this.
- [36:04]
Peter Rosenberg
I understand you're still believing in Stearns that can he can build a team. My question is not about, you know, are they protecting for the future. My question is, does he really have a good eye for talent? Can he build the team? I don't know if he can. I have no evidence that tells me he can.
- [36:23]
Alan Hahn
Even if he believes he did the right thing with the contracts and maybe he did.
- [36:27]
Peter Rosenberg
Okay.
- [36:28]
Alan Hahn
Did you bring in the right players? Obviously you thought you could replace Alonso. You did not.
- [36:33]
Peter Rosenberg
No.
- [36:33]
Caller
Nope.
- [36:34]
Alan Hahn
You failed there. You know, you thought you could replace Nemo. You didn't. You thought you can replace McNeil. You didn't, you know, so Diaz. He did, considering Diaz got hurt.
- [36:47]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [36:48]
Alan Hahn
So that was kind of a lucky break where Devin Williams is healthy and he got Weaver. Right. That guy's been filthy. What is it, 22, 23 consecutive innings without allowing a run. I mean, so he hasn't been completely. He didn't whiff on everything, but most of it he has.
- [37:03]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. Well, if he got everything wrong, he should have been fired by now. But he's not he's still there. It's Charles Barkley here with Wayfair. And let me tell you, game day is serious business at my house. If I'm grilling, chilling and watching hoops, my outdoor setup better be ready to play.
- [37:20]
Alan Hahn
That's where Wayfair wins.
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Peter Rosenberg
From patio seating and umbrellas to grills and grill accessories, Wayfair's got it all and it shows up fast. I'm talking fast and easy delivery. So level up your grill game and your outdoor chill game and head to Wayfarer.com to get your outdoor space ready for the season.
- [37:38]
Alan Hahn
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- [38:27]
Peter Rosenberg
Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.
- [38:31]
Don LaGreca
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [38:32]
Peter Rosenberg
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. We got a game time. It's brought to you by Telemardu Irish Whiskey because when it's game time, fellas, it's Charlie.
- [38:50]
Alan Hahn
It's totally time.
- [38:51]
Peter Rosenberg
All right. The Mets with interim manager Andy Green. They will be take opening up series with the Phillies tonight at Citi Field. Coverage immediately following us right here after enn on 88630 the Yankees continue their series with the Red sox. That's a 710 first pitch. Tell them or do the original triple distilled, triple blended, triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Telemardu or try the new Telemardu honey during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying Telemardu responsibly. We continue with your calls. Let's get as many as we can because a lot of fans want to sound off. Let's go to Paul in Westchester. Paul,
- [39:32]
Caller
hello.
- [39:33]
Peter Rosenberg
Hey, Paul, we got you. You're on the air.
- [39:36]
Caller
Okay. Okay. So before I get to my main point, just one, one main example of Stearns's ineffectiveness is he couldn't even keep his first base coach. Who was the best first base coach in baseball? I mean, you know, was that a money issue anyway. But beside that, I thought it was very interesting in that I have a long enough history with the Mets that I remember back in 1990, the last time they blew up the entire team. Bob Clappis wrote a book called the Worst Team Money Could Buy. It's when Strawberry left. They brought in Coleman, they brought in Bonilla, they brought in Saberhagen. And it turned out to be the same exact type of disaster that we're living through right now. You can't make wholesale changes like that on a team. You know, think about it. If Pete Alonso was at first base and you had Bichette playing. Okay. Or you had Lindor and you had Soto and you had the two young guys get rid of Vientos and Beatty, but you actually have the core of a team that could possibly win. But Alonso was 120 RBIs. You could never replace that. And it just, it boggles my mind how he ruined his team. And you'll never get Alonzo back. So you've got a homegrown player that was. This is the second worst loss since Seaver. In my mind it's M. Donald Grant. You lost a really good player who was. Historically, he's the only guy in the Mets who actually has a record. He has a rookie home run record. No one else. There's no offensive record.
- [41:09]
Alan Hahn
No. This was an opportunity ball. And think about that. That was what was frustrating to lose him. And that was the guy that bothered me the most was because of the whole forever thing. The Ed Crane pool ran is just based on just that.
- [41:20]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [41:20]
Alan Hahn
The Mets just can't keep any forever players. And you go back to that 92 team and this is the worst since. The worst team money can buy. But at least guys looking back at that team, they were able to bring in players that had a resume. Vince Coleman had a resume. Brett Saberhagen had a resume. Bobby Bonilla had a resume.
- [41:43]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [41:43]
Alan Hahn
The guys here bringing in did we really expect was Polanco and Simeon going to be superstar? They weren't superstar players.
- [41:51]
Peter Rosenberg
Peter loved Luba. What do you mean?
- [41:53]
Alan Hahn
That was very high on the team, Robert. Because he hasn't played. And what was his. The Bugaboo. When he was in Chicago, he didn't play.
- [42:01]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [42:02]
Alan Hahn
You know, that's probably the best of the players they acquired. But like, I'm not going to ever sit there and say that, you know, I'm not going to blame what happened in the early 90s. But at least you brought in players that had a back of a baseball card and they just didn't live up to it. But you understood why. You got them not analytically driven trying to get guys on the cheap. You brought in stars and it blew up in your face. They, he didn't bring in stars. Guys. It might be a little bit more forgivable if you brought in stars. Then you could blame the players. Right?
- [42:36]
Peter Rosenberg
Of course. That's the thing.
- [42:38]
Alan Hahn
You're right.
- [42:38]
Peter Rosenberg
You're not living up to who you are. Your resume. You didn't bring anybody, bring in anybody that had a resume or a legit one. That's exactly it. It's easier to blame players. When you spend a lot of money on players and bring them in and they underperform. Then you're, it's clear like, well, wait a minute, you did this in these other places. You're not doing it here. Soto would be the guy that you could be killing right now if he wasn't performing up to par, right? The only thing you can complain about is that, okay, he's, he's kind of getting hurt a lot, right? Like, like he's, he does have nagging injuries, but for the most part he's still productive. That makes total sense. Mark in Staten island, you're up next. Mark.
- [43:18]
Caller
Hey, what's up guys?
- [43:19]
Peter Rosenberg
Hey Mark, what's up?
- [43:21]
Alan Hahn
So, so I understand why people aren't looking at what the Knicks did. You know, they are kind of like the anti analytic team. They got a bunch of guys. You know, Brunson's an undersized guard cat, can't play defense. Mitch has no shot, can't shoot free throws. Josh Hart's a glorified journeyman kind of role player. And they just got the right guys at the right time with the right chemistry and it worked out. You kind of did the anti analytics to an extent.
- [43:44]
Caller
You can say the same thing about
- [43:45]
Alan Hahn
the 90s Yankees, where there was no analytics back then. You had no guy hit over 30 home runs on the 98 Yankees. It was just the right guys at the right time that mesh correctly. I don't see why people have these in their own town and don't use them as examples. Because it's too risky. Yeah, Mark, that's the problem. It's too risky.
- [44:03]
Peter Rosenberg
Job.
- [44:04]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, they, they, they feel like if they go with Their gut. They're not going to survive unless they're absolutely right. The Knicks were right. Right. Leon Rose was right. But if Leon Rose was wrong, he'd probably get shown the door and they'll bring in a guy that'd be more analytic. Because analytic is safe. Because there's a number to back up why you did it. Well, 65% of the time it works. So why would I not. Why would I go with the 35% that usually doesn't work?
- [44:30]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, and you could, you know, again, it was more of a style you put. It was like fit players who fit what fit Fit better. Randall, you know, was a productive play. See, Randall was the perfect analytics guy. Well, wait a minute. He gets you 20, he gives you almost 10 a game. Rebounds wise, efficiency, like you, you know, why would I move a guy like that? Well, because he doesn't fit with Brunson. You need a center that pulls the bigs away from the paint to open up the paint, because that's how Brunson plays. So it's all complementary pieces that you put together. And while there was criticism about some of it, you know what? They don't really have traditional great three point shooters.
- [45:05]
Caller
They.
- [45:05]
Peter Rosenberg
They don't really have traditional great one on one defenders. But if I, If I put the right pieces together and I find a system that play, I can make these guys. Because what you can't factor in is chemistry, which they have with the Villanova guys and fit and winning personalities. And that's what they. Leon Rose built a team based off personalities and fit, not necessarily on. Do you realize.
- [45:28]
Alan Hahn
Do you realize how antithetical the whole Villanova thing is to the way analytics, particularly in baseball.
- [45:35]
Peter Rosenberg
Absolutely.
- [45:36]
Alan Hahn
Trying to get the Mach.
- [45:37]
Don LaGreca
Understand.
- [45:38]
Alan Hahn
No. These guys have championship DNA. Together they just go. It'll work. That is literally an idea that does not exist. But when. Alan, when you were out. My top five on Wednesday was the top five second round picks since they went to this format in 1989 and Brunson was on that list. That's why Brunson dropped to the second round, because they didn't appreciate winning and guts and clutch. That's just. I'm sorry, I can't take a guy that small in the first round.
- [46:04]
Caller
Right.
- [46:04]
Peter Rosenberg
Six, two short arms. Yeah, yeah.
- [46:07]
Alan Hahn
You know, and because they didn't have the guts to look at all the things, they just want to be able to back up. These scouts want to be able to back up and say, hey, this is why I'm not going to rate him as high. Because I can't quantify winning, I can't quantify clutch. I can't quantify these abilities. So I'm going to go with the taller player or the faster player or the guy that can jump higher. That's all. That's, that's where it goes. I don't know if you saw the list, if you respected it as a basketball guy.
- [46:31]
Peter Rosenberg
I did see the list and I did respect it as a basketball guy. It was very good. You hear that noise in the background, fellas?
- [46:38]
Alan Hahn
They're still working.
- [46:38]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, they're about to finish up today, but I can tell you the door is now installed completely. It is gorgeous. They're moving away now the bracing for the ceiling because you know you got to brace the ceiling when you open up a hole like that in your wall, right. Or the whole house comes down. So now they're moving that out of the way. But the door is gorgeous. I'm very excited about it. Work is underway here. And the door we got from Rings End. And that's why I want to tell you about Rings End. They have an extensive inventory of built to last high end product lines that contractors like my guy Michael Weldon relies on. Michael and his son Zach here just going through it, by the way. They allowed me to step in and help out today. I didn't put a tool belt on.
- [47:18]
Alan Hahn
They're enabling you.
- [47:20]
Peter Rosenberg
They did not enable me. I did get to work the drill a little bit because we had to move some things. They need some help with the door. They needed one extra set of hands. I was glad to do it, but Michael made it clear to me that I was overstaying. When I kind of hung around for a little longer, then he's like, you know, you can go now. You're done. I'm like, okay, I'm out of here. So. But it was still awesome. And the door looks great. And if you, you and your contractor want to get something for your kitchen, something for your house, they have doors, windows, all the stuff you need to update and upgrade your home. Ring's End has showrooms with products you can touch, feel and try so you know exactly what you're getting. They have, they have eight full service lumber yards in Connecticut and Westchester County, 12 freestanding paint centers as well. Family owned and operates since 1902. They're not a national chain, they're northeast. So they know your area well. And if you can't make it to a store, just shop online@ringsend.com that's ringsend.com. thanks for listening. To the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses, set up required compatibility and availability various 18 plus.