Hour 3: Kurt Thomas & Jay Williams

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary

Title: Hour 3: Kurt Thomas & Jay Williams
Release Date: May 29, 2025

In the third hour of the "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" podcast, hosts Don LaGreca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg engage in an in-depth discussion with former NBA player Kurt Thomas and guest Jay Williams. This episode delves into the New York Knicks' playoff journey, strategies for Game Five against the Indiana Pacers, and reflections on past and present Knicks legends. Here's a comprehensive summary capturing all key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Introduction and Guest Welcome

The episode kicks off with the usual banter among the hosts, setting the stage for a lively discussion. At [00:44], Peter Rosenberg introduces Kurt Thomas, highlighting his legacy with the Knicks and his reputation as one of the tough guys from the 1999 Finals team.

Notable Quote:
Kurt Thomas [00:52]: "It's amazing to be back in New York during playoff time; it brings back those old memories."

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2. Jason Williams' Legacy and Current Impact

The conversation transitions to former Knicks player Jason Williams, discussing his extensive 18-season career, including his time with the Knicks and the Heat. Williams reflects on his return to New York and the enduring support from fans [02:06].

Notable Quote:
Jason Williams [02:25]: "New York is like my second home, so I still have a lot of friends up here."

Williams shares personal anecdotes about playing through injuries and his seamless transition into a successful real estate career post-retirement [10:07].

Notable Quote:
Jason Williams [12:49]: "I just love the game. Once it was over, I already knew what I was going to do."

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3. Trade Insights: Luka Doncic & Jalen Brunson

Kurt Thomas discusses the significant trade involving Luka Doncic and Jalen Brunson, expressing surprise and analyzing the fan reactions from Dallas [07:05].

Notable Quote:
Kurt Thomas [07:05]: "The reaction from Dallas fans was unbelievable. Carrying a casket in front of the stadium? I've never seen anything like that."

He further elaborates on how these trades impact team dynamics and the future of both players [08:00].

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4. Analyzing the Knicks vs. Pacers Playoff Series

The hosts delve into the current playoff series between the Knicks and Pacers, examining the Knicks' defensive strategies, physicality, and overall performance. They highlight the importance of reducing turnovers and increasing defensive stops to secure a win in Game Five [15:47].

Notable Quote:
Jason Williams [15:47]: "We got to get stops on the defensive end. That's what will fuel our offense and lead us to a win tonight."

Kurt Thomas emphasizes the necessity for the Knicks to adopt a more aggressive and physical style of play to counter the Pacers' strategies [22:28].

Notable Quote:
Kurt Thomas [22:28]: "Tonight is a no excuse night. We've got to fight or flight, put everything on the line to win."

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5. Defensive Strategies and Physicality

The discussion intensifies around the need for the Knicks to enhance their defensive tactics. Kurt Thomas critiques the current defensive approach, advocating for a more robust and physical defense to disrupt the Pacers' offensive flow [26:03].

Notable Quote:
Kurt Thomas [26:03]: "Once you go through a long, physical series like Detroit's, the emotional and physical drain is immense."

Peter Rosenberg adds that the Knicks must focus on limiting Jalen Brunson's scoring opportunities to gain an upper hand [30:25].

Notable Quote:
Peter Rosenberg [30:25]: "They have to find one more playmaker to take the pressure off Jalen Brunson."

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6. Addressing Team Fatigue and Emotional Exhaustion

The hosts explore the impact of the long playoff season on the Knicks' performance, discussing the signs of physical and emotional fatigue among players [25:42]. They consider whether the team's intense schedule has taken a toll, affecting their ability to perform at peak levels.

Notable Quote:
Alan Hahn [25:42]: "It's a long season. Playing every other day, it's not like the second round where you take a couple of days off."

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7. Future Outlook and Strategies for Victory

As the episode nears its conclusion, the hosts outline potential strategies the Knicks could employ to triumph in Game Five. Emphasis is placed on maintaining defensive integrity, reducing turnovers, and ensuring key players like Carl Anthony Towns (Cat) remain healthy and effective [40:10].

Notable Quote:
Peter Rosenberg [40:10]: "The Knicks have to be physically tough and play as a united team to push the ball and reduce turnovers."

Kurt Thomas reiterates the importance of a collective mentality, urging the team to leave everything on the court without excuses [34:13].

Notable Quote:
Kurt Thomas [34:13]: "It's fight or flight. Tonight is a no excuse night for us."

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8. Closing Remarks and Final Insights

In the final segments, the hosts summarize their discussions, reinforcing the critical points made throughout the episode. They highlight the need for strategic defensive adjustments and the importance of player resilience to advance in the playoffs.

Notable Quote:
Peter Rosenberg [48:52]: "Hear more of Don, Alan, and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN New York and the ESPN New York app."

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Conclusion

Hour 3 of the "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" podcast offers a rich and engaging analysis of the New York Knicks' playoff prospects, enriched by the experiences and insights of Kurt Thomas and Jay Williams. The hosts effectively balance nostalgia with current strategic discussions, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the team's challenges and potential pathways to victory in the crucial Game Five against the Indiana Pacers.

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Highlighted Quotes with Timestamps:

• Kurt Thomas [00:52]: "It's amazing to be back in New York during playoff time; it brings back those old memories."
• Jason Williams [05:28]: "He's been scoring 40 points in a playoff game four nights in a row. It's just unbelievable."
• Kurt Thomas [07:05]: "The reaction from Dallas fans was unbelievable. Carrying a casket in front of the stadium? I've never seen anything like that."
• Jason Williams [15:47]: "We got to get stops on the defensive end. That's what will fuel our offense and lead us to a win tonight."
• Kurt Thomas [22:28]: "Tonight is a no excuse night. We've got to fight or flight, put everything on the line to win."
• Peter Rosenberg [30:25]: "They have to find one more playmaker to take the pressure off Jalen Brunson."
• Alan Hahn [25:42]: "It's a long season. Playing every other day, it's not like the second round where you take a couple of days off."
• Peter Rosenberg [40:10]: "The Knicks have to be physically tough and play as a united team to push the ball and reduce turnovers."
• Kurt Thomas [34:13]: "It's fight or flight. Tonight is a no excuse night for us."
• Peter Rosenberg [48:52]: "Hear more of Don, Alan, and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN New York and the ESPN New York app."

This structured and detailed summary provides an insightful overview of the podcast episode, making it accessible and informative for both regular listeners and newcomers.

Transcript

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[Don LaGreca]

This is the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don LaGreca]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, back with Don McGregor. Peter Rosenberg, I'm Alan How we're at Stout 33rd street, right by Madison Square Garden. Get you ready for game five tonight.

[Kurt Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Knicks and the Pacers tune in tonight at 7pm for Knicks pregame show. It's brought to you by Infinity Experience, the Infinity lineup at your local retailer today. So we told you we would have special guests. It has been special so far, but none more special than this guest that we have here with us right now. That, of course, is a if when I say the name, it's funny because I heard somebody in the crowd already say my childhood right in front of me. That is the name of Kurt Thomas, one of the tough guys from the old days on the finals team in 99. He had come back later on in 2013. I got a story to tell about that one. But it is great to see you. Thanks for joining us. And just being back in New York, being around this playoff time, it's got to bring back those old memories.

[Jason Williams]

Oh, without a doubt. I mean, it's exciting. You see just walking up and down the street, you see New York jerseys, hats, shirts, everything, you know, so it's the city is on fire right now and the fans are really excited and we need a win tonight.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do people recognize you still, like, when they see you? Like, are you getting the, hey, car, we need you on the court tonight.

[Jason Williams]

Every time I'm in New York, that's awesome, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Because you really touched it. Fans that were here like seven, eight years, the first run, then coming back at the age of 40 to play with a team, that was really good. What does it mean to you to know that the fans still love you and remember you like that?

[Jason Williams]

Oh, it's great. I mean, New York is like my second home, so I still have a lot of friends up here. So every opportunity I get to come back is great. You know, my significant other is from New York. Her parents know I bring my kids back here every year so they can see their grandparents. So it's been great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll tell you what. So 18. Am I right? Is it 18 NBA seasons that you played?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, so 88 of them were with the Knicks, and as Don mentioned in separate occasions, but you started with the Heat, and so you kind of knew already that rivalry. But when you came to the Knicks, that Knicks, Heat rivalry wasn't the same as what became with the Knicks and the Pacers. So now we have it. Come back again, when I say Knicks, Pacers, what's some of the memories that you think of?

[Jason Williams]

I mean, of course, you got to think of Reggie. You got to think of the Davis boys, you know, just playing with those guys, how physical, you know, the game was. So. But, you know, they got great fans. They really come out and support them. You know, they're going to have that support when we're here. We know we're going to have our support with the New Yorkers here, so. But it's a just a great matchup, and it's always been very intense.

[Unknown Speaker]

Do you. I assume that, you know, you spent a lot of time in New York, so I assume you watch a lot of games and root for this team with maybe an extra intensity than some of the other teams that you. You had a cup of coffee with. You know what I mean? Respectfully, to Phoenix and Dallas and whatnot, but this is New York. Do you get any sense of frustration when you see this team not be physical enough? Because that was something we were talking about earlier in the Detroit series. We saw this team kind of light up and start to get after it. And in my opinion, Kurt, in a moment like this, back against the wall, this is the kind of game when you'd like to see them really start taking a physical game to the Pacers.

[Jason Williams]

Well, we definitely would like to see that. We know that there have been a lot of rules implemented into the game over the last decade or so, but, you know, we had to calm it down just a little bit. But we would definitely like to see the physicality tonight. We'd like to see them really pushing the ball up the floor. But I think the most important thing is that we got to get stops on the defensive end. We use those stops to fuel our offense. I think we'll get a W tonight.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It has been. It has been a fun run, though. That's something that always seems to happen when you get to the conference finals. You don't get there because it Was a boring playoffs. It was always these big moments. Every era has their player that all the fans really connect to. When you played, you had Patrick. You had a lot of stars on that team, but, I mean, Patrick Ewing was the guy that the. The city loved and loved him for years. When you watch Jalen Brunson, does he fit sort of that idea of what. What a. What a great Knick is? What would you say about Jalen Brunson and what he's become here?

[Jason Williams]

Oh, he's been unbelievable. You know, I thought it was a great signing. I know I'm from Dallas, so I got to see him play with the Mavericks every night when I was at home. Then to see him sign as a free agent with New York, I was really excited, but I did not think he would have that much of an impact on this team, on this city. I mean, he's been outstanding with that uniform on his chest, so don't want to see him go anywhere.

[Unknown Speaker]

So that's a really interesting perspective because, you know, we've talked about this recently. When Jalen was signed here, you know, people kind of had the attitude was sort of. Is that it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Jalen Brunson, that's it. And I don't think even fans of his knew he had this gear, so you said it even surprised you. What sort of level player did you think he was when you were watching him every night in Dallas?

[Jason Williams]

Oh, I mean, I always knew he was solid. I knew he was a guy who was going to be there each and every night. He was going to contribute, to do whatever it takes to get the win. But he was always like, you know, he wasn't the Batman. He was like the Rodman. But now he comes here, he's Batman, and I mean, he's scoring 40 points in a playoff game four nights in a row. It's just. I mean, you know, it's just unbelievable.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, back in your day, the game was a little bit more predictable. You know, you knew the teams that were good and was almost impossible to win on the road. Now teams are winning on the road routinely. Why do you think that is?

[Jason Williams]

It's unbelievable. Something you don't really see a lot. It just shows, you know, about the preparation. It's about sticking to the attention to details and just sticking to that game plan and. And going out there and executing it. But again, you know, to go into to a visiting state arena and to know. To silence the crowd, you know, that's the motivating factor for the. For the visiting team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've heard that. Like, I actually. Brunson said that too. It's one thing to make that shot like LJ hitting the four point play shot that the whole building went crazy. I mean, I can imagine what that was like to just be on the court in that moment. But Brunson shot against the Pistons was the silencer.

[Jason Williams]

Unbelievable.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And there, like, he even said there's a little something extra special about having a crowd just completely go silent and looking at the people that have been talking trash to you the whole game and just letting them know, like, good night.

[Jason Williams]

Oh, yeah. I know you always want to have the last word.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jason Williams]

And I mean, he set the stage up perfect for. For New York. And he knocked that shot down. Oh, my God.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What a moment. So again, go back to your Dallas background. When that Luca trade happened, what did you think?

[Jason Williams]

I was shocked. I mean, I had. I was looking at my phone, like, did I. Did I read that correct? I was like. And then I had to just start searching online and really see if this was true or not or this is just right, you know, a fake story out there. You know, clickbait or whatever.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jason Williams]

Once it was really announced that this is real, it was. I was totally shocked.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. So. So again, knowing what you know in Dallas that you. You did not see, think about this.

[Jason Williams]

That.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That team you just mentioned, Jalen, they had Luka Doncic and Jalen Brunson. These are two. All NBA talents now they don't have either one. It is amazing sometimes that what you don't realize what you have, and then now it's gone. Did you ever hear about the concerns about Luka, the. The whispers about Luka? I mean, you're a guy that was in. You were in great shape. You were a guy that could play 40 minutes a night. Did you ever watch him and say, like, oh, this guy needs to be in better shape. He's not where he should be. Like, any of this. The story after come as a surprise. Did you hear any of that?

[Jason Williams]

I mean, you always hear whispers because, you know, like, he would come into the. Into training camp a little overweight or whatever, but that's nothing. Nothing we've not ever seen before. So, you know, just play yourself into shape and you're not, you know, you'll be okay. But I mean, they love Luca in Dallas, clearly. And to see. I mean, they were carrying a casket in front of the stadium because, you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Know, this is crazy.

[Jason Williams]

It was just unbelievable. I hadn't seen anything like that before. I mean, I've seen a lot of trades. I've been myself, I've been included in a number of trades.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sure.

[Jason Williams]

To see the fans, the reaction they had, it was definitely unbelievable.

[Alan Hahn]

Talking to Kurt Thomas now, coincidence or not, you lose Luca, but you gain Cooper Flag. What do you think of that?

[Jason Williams]

Hey, you know, this league is all about the youth, and it's all about you got to be young. You know, normally, in my opinion, I feel, you know, it's like every seven years you're going to see a team go through.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jason Williams]

Make changes and stuff like that. Sometimes it's shorter than that, sometimes it's longer than that. But I think. I think Cooper Flag is going to be a great addition. I mean, they say he's. He's going to be the number one pick. I mean, he's very talented. I mean, Dallas is on fire. The Dallas Wings had number one pick in wnba.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jason Williams]

Dallas Mavericks had a number one pick. So, I mean, Dallas is exciting. I mean, it's a lot going on in the Metroplex.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Certainly a fun place to play. I want to tell the story that I don't think it's told enough about your Knick career, and it has nothing to do with. With the seven years you spent in the late 90s, early 2000s. I want to go back to when you return to the franchise in the 2012-13 season, and that was a team that had a lot of vets on it. A lot of. A lot of talented vets. But your career ended, if I'm not mistaken, in Utah. Correct. Against Utah. You remember late in that year, the road trip. Everybody's hurt. That trip was going to be a disaster. And you played, and I don't. I don't know if you played 20 minutes, but I know you played a lot and you had a terrific game. And the Knicks won that game. And after the fact, we found out you were playing on, I believe, a fractured ankle or a broken ankle. Am I right?

[Jason Williams]

Yes, I fractured my ankle in the Portland game. The game before the game before. You know, we just thought it was a twist, you know, serious twist, high ankle sprain or something like that. But I felt. I kept saying, something's not right. You know, I've had this feeling before. Okay. And it didn't feel right. But, you know, we had. We end up. I think we left there and we flew to LA or la, then went to Portland, then we went to Utah. So I had a couple of days to kind of like, you know, prop my foot up ice. You know, I was doing a lot of treatment to prepare Myself to play, but not really knowing if it was actually broken, but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you knew you had to play.

[Jason Williams]

I was playing with. It didn't matter. I was going to play my teammates. We needed. I think we were on four on that road trip and we needed to win. And so I just need to do whatever I can to help my teammates out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that was it. Right after that. I don't think you played again, did you?

[Jason Williams]

I was done. I ended up doing a bunch of rehab, trying to see if I'll be able to come back, but we knew that I need to have surgery.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's amazing because that team went 54 games, got to the second round, and you never got a chance. Like, like I, I checked. I was like, I don't think he played in the playoffs that year. And I'd see it. You didn't play in the playoffs, but you were on a team that was the last. You know, again, that's a. The most wins this team has had in 25 years. And the fact that you were part of that. But it. Guys. The reason why I like to tell the story is the example of the selflessness that. I know that, that Kurt's right now being very. He's showing a lot of humility, but that, that's a. That's a guts type of a situation for a team. Easily. He could have been like, no, my ankle's not right. I can't play. This team needed him to play and played really well in that game. If I'm not. I remember a block that you had in that game that we all went crazy in the postgame show when we saw it. But to find out afterwards that you were doing this all on a broken ankle, I mean, what is like. I know you don't like to talk about yourself in that situation, but there is something internally that you have to tell yourself, like, I'm playing. We need this. I don't care. And when you find out your season's over, are there any regrets?

[Jason Williams]

No. No regrets. There was never any grass. The thing that helped me is that I've been through it before. I played through injuries before. I injured my, my finger, my right hand here playing for the Knicks. And I played the remainder of the season, and then when the season was over, I had surgery to repair my, my hand. So, you know, I've been through it before. I'm willing to do whatever it can for my teammates, for the coaches, and if I, if it's 1 minute, 30 minutes, it doesn't matter. I'm willing, trying to Tip the team.

[Unknown Speaker]

Get a W. How hard was the. I always like asking athletes this. I think it's fascinating, you know, the athlete's career ends and you're still a young man. How hard was the adjustment for you? Because, like, as much as you were the old man in the locker room in regular life, you were just a 40 year old guy.

[Jason Williams]

Yeah, I mean, I was fortunate enough that I played till I was 40.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Jason Williams]

And that's normally, that normally doesn't happen and that's in this league. So that was definitely an accomplishment for me to play that long. But, you know, just, I just love the game. I just love to play. And then once, once it was over, I already knew what I was going to do. So I knew that when I retired, I was going to get it, start my own real estate company. I knew I was going to, you know, get into multifamily, get into commercial single family. And that's what I do. I provide. I provide affordable housing for families in Dallas.

[Unknown Speaker]

And so how did you know that that was going to be your path?

[Jason Williams]

So, like I said, I've been through, I've had a number of injuries. A lot of you guys might not know how I ended up in New York is that I broke my right ankle four times in a period of two years. So a lot of people thought my career was over, but the Knicks gave me a second chance and then I ended up starting. You know, that's the first season I came here and the rest is history.

[Unknown Speaker]

So during those injury times, you were so.

[Jason Williams]

I'm sorry. And then when I injured my ankle and also this was like, in 98, we had a lockout, so I did an internship with a real estate company.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wow.

[Jason Williams]

And when I did an internship, I was like, oh, I like this. I can do this when I retire. And so from that point on, I started purchasing property all over the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex.

[Alan Hahn]

When you came back to the Knicks in 1213, did you know that was your last season or did the ankle end your career? Could you have played more, you think.

[Jason Williams]

You know, if it. I could have played more. To answer your question, my goal was to play 20 years. I never talked about it, but that was a goal in the back of my mind that I set. But I knew when I had this, when I ended up having the surgery, I knew it was going to take me, you know, anywhere from nine to 12 months to recover. And then for me to be already 40 years old, sitting out, I wasn't putting up numbers like LeBron James. I don't think they were going to extend my career that much. So, you know, I accepted reality and you know, say a job well done and let's move on and then stepped.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right into a fantastic career after that last thing for you, Kurt. And again, thanks so much for the time. It's great to see you and I see you back here in New York, but it's, it's. I always like asking the guys when they come back is if there's that one memory that immediately hits the minute you walk in the building. Because although it has changed aesthetically a little bit, the roof is still the same. So you look up and it's. Yep. What is like, is there one first thing that comes to you when you.

[Jason Williams]

Look up and see that roof offer me is when I see Patrick Ewing's number hanging in the rafters. That's. I was there for when they. They retired his number. So that's one thing I see when I look up in the Raptor. But then also when we played in the final, you know, winning the Eastern Conference in 99 and then making it to the final, you know, those two things are at the top of my list. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Winning that series against the Pacers.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's. That's quite a celebration to have and see if the Knicks can push this, at least get to Game 7 back at the Garden. Because as we know, anything can happen when you get to that point. And definitely, what's it going to take tonight again?

[Jason Williams]

Defense, we got to play as a team. We got to really push the ball. We got to get Styles. We can't give up so many layups, in my opinion. I think we've given up way far too many layups and wide open threes. I think if we can cut that down, keep it at a minimum, I think it increase our chance to get a win tonight.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, great. Kurt Thomas. Thanks, man. Back in New York with us.

[Jason Williams]

Thank you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Appreciate and enjoy. And again, it's just so good to see you, Kurt.

[Jason Williams]

Appreciate it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thank you. All right, guys, very much. Coming up, I told you, we have different guests that are coming through here. I saw him walking, he snuck into the room, but he's not going to get too far away from us.

[Alan Hahn]

Coming out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

J will. Jason Williams, he is the man, by the way. You see him on ESPN all the time. I love to argue with him. I love to talk basketball with him. He's going to do that with us. Coming up in just a few minutes. We are here at Stout 33rd Street, 7th Avenue, right by Madison Square Garden. We will take the show all the way up until 7 o' clock when the pregame begins and the Knicks and the Pacers game five as well. So come on down and hang out with us. We'll continue next with J Will. But right now I want to tell you, It's Alan Han here to tell you about my friends at Bath Fitter. They remodeled the bath in my home. My wife and my Stephanie is so excited about this. We updated a bath by the pool converting a tub into a shower so now we can use it for the summer and guests when they when the kids have sleepovers as well. A bathroom consultant took us through the process with their free in home consultation to pick the style and color as well as all the specifics and accessories to update our bath. Customized just the way she wanted it, Bath Fitter works fast. Delivered the highest quality work without delay. Now Bath Fitter is a permanent solution. It's a one piece seamless wall for a watertight fit and a lifetime guarantee. Now you can trust the Bath Fitter team like we did. They've been in business for 40 years with millions of happy customers. Best savings of the season. Now for a limited time, save up to $750 on a complete Bath Fitter system. So hurry. This offer expires May 31. Start designing your bath like we for more details.

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[Kurt Thomas]

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[Don LaGreca]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Unknown Speaker]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don LaGreca]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don Han, Rosenberg, ESPN New York Live at Stout, 33rd Street, 7th Avenue, steps away from Madison Square Garden, getting you ready for game five tonight. The Knicks and the Pacers in the Eastern Conference finals. Like we said, we never know who's coming through today. Just talk with Kurt Thomas now, the star at espn. Yeah, Jay, Will.

[Kurt Thomas]

What's up, boys?

[Peter Rosenberg]

National player of the year, number two.

[Unknown Speaker]

Overall pick, Chicago Bull, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Kurt Thomas]

Don, I don't know where you could see your lineups at, but I need to go there. Do you like. You go Washington Heights? Is that like Boriqua? He's like the razor. Like, what do you do?

[Alan Hahn]

This is all me, man.

[Unknown Speaker]

You know what it's called, Jay? It's called.

[Alan Hahn]

He. He.

[Unknown Speaker]

He found a friend in me, someone who was here to tell him what was not working and what was working. And now look, he's cultivated a beautiful look. I'm like. I'm like, you're. Listen, I didn't do it. I don't get out the trimmer myself. But I'd like to think, Don, I had a positive influence on the lineup.

[Kurt Thomas]

Well, that's no trimmer. That's. That's a. That's a razor edge right there. That thing sharp.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is that. Is that what you're using? What are you using there?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, no, I. I do go to the. I go someplace professionally.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay, got it? Got it.

[Alan Hahn]

I go to the staging area over in Somerset. They take care of me over there. They love the show. But there, there was, you Know, repugnant Don back in the day.

[Kurt Thomas]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

So you never. You never seen. You never seen this?

[Peter Rosenberg]

1997 shuffled like, what?

[Kurt Thomas]

What?

[Alan Hahn]

1997.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Pick out all of the 90s references in the photo.

[Kurt Thomas]

Oh, my goodness.

[Alan Hahn]

I got an M1T shirt on.

[Unknown Speaker]

Look at the M1, though.

[Kurt Thomas]

Hi. I never took you for him.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's what I said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Look at you.

[Kurt Thomas]

Part of the street culture. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's it though, right?

[Unknown Speaker]

You didn't know about the mixtape, Don Arrow.

[Kurt Thomas]

I missed that memo.

[Alan Hahn]

The only. The only thing street is they look like roadkill. So I turned it around.

[Unknown Speaker]

You turned around big time.

[Alan Hahn]

You really can the Knicks turn it around?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, look at that.

[Kurt Thomas]

They got no choice. Yeah, you got. Are you a professional with this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Segue?

[Kurt Thomas]

I mean, but honestly, I mean, we talk about. We. We argue about all the time. Peter too. Like, I. Tonight feels like it's one of those definitive nights where, okay, Carl Anthony Towns is hurt. So what? Nobody cares. Like, this is a moment where it's like, New Yorker, blue collar. You want to bring out the boots, let's bring out the work boots. Like, that's what tonight is about. And when there's a lot of self inflicted wounds, turning the ball over, not playing defense down the stretch, or certain things where Tyrese Halliburton's getting wide open, drives to the basket, you guys know sometimes I can err on the side of being a little bit crazy, but I would like to see Tyrese Halliburton on his back once or twice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thank you.

[Kurt Thomas]

Give this dude a hard foul. You know what that does? If I bring the ball down the middle, I guarantee you, if I get knocked on my back, I'm looking around to see who the hell is coming. It distracts me from the purpose of attacking the rim. It's that style of basketball that you need to see from the Knicks tonight.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't. I don't see the risk in it. We know that Tibbs has bodies who have plenty of extra fouls to use that we. That we are not using very often. And furthermore, the way this playoffs was being called earlier, we thought in the Detroit Knicks series, oh, look, we're going to get a physical. NBA playoffs. They've completely gotten away from it. It's sitting there if they want to do it. Is that a conversation? Like, realistically, are we just yo yos on microphones talking about it, or do you think Tibbs is bringing this up today? We have to get physical.

[Kurt Thomas]

I mean, so this is what, this is how I've learned how to stop teams that play with pace and play fast tyres. Halliburton got 12 rebounds, but their entire offense is predicated off of him initiating the offense. He is the engine to their goal. Right. So if he gets a rebound, there needs to be somebody dedicated. And I know this might be hard to do, but we used to do this all the time. When we go against Steve Nash, we will go in, scout and report. We would say, okay, there's one player on the court that when the shot goes up, when we shoot the ball, you need to find where Steve Nash is on the court immediately. You know why? You need to meet him early, meet him in the backcourt. Because all of a sudden, when he gets the rebound or when he wants to go after a made shot, he's turning around. Think about what Anthony Edwards saw last night. He saw Lou Dort right there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Kurt Thomas]

Oh, let's go. Like, he got turned two or three times before he got to half court. Now all of a sudden, you're playing in the shot clock with. With 18, with 17. That's way different what they're doing. Exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's. What. It's literally the same thing they're doing at Brunson. There's always somebody in his pocket, wherever he is on the floor. You rarely see him where he's in open space. In fact, the only time you see him in open space is defensive transition. That's the only time you see him in open space. Other than that, there is always somebody in his pocket. With. With this series, it's three. One. There's this sense while the Pacer, just like I've heard this sort of resignation of the Pacers are just a better team.

[Kurt Thomas]

No, that's B.S.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, go ahead.

[Kurt Thomas]

I mean, it's pretty even. You don't turn the ball over. It's not like you're sitting there saying, oh, reminds me of those Maryland teams that I played against in college that they're playing passing lane.

[Jason Williams]

Sorry.

[Kurt Thomas]

I just wanted to do it to you because. Because you told me you watched a miracle minute. It just felt like it was natural.

[Unknown Speaker]

I get it felt like it was natural. You're not wrong.

[Kurt Thomas]

Yeah, but, like, you know, there were certain teams we played against. Detroit was one of them, where they would be in passing lanes every possession. Like, yo, I have no gaps to pass the ball around the court. It's not like they were playing defense. Like, there's careless passes. They're p. Even the fouls by Cat. I love Cat. Went to the same damn high school In New Jersey, St. Joseph High School, Metuchen. I would say all the time. Even played in Kentucky. I'm like, yo, every game you give me two fouls. I'm like, what are we doing?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why?

[Unknown Speaker]

Right? You talking about the hand grab?

[Kurt Thomas]

Why, why are we doing that? Just don't do that. Stay out of foul trouble. So it's self inflicted wounds, Allen.

[Alan Hahn]

So if the Pacers aren't better and you hear the theme coming out of the locker room after Game 4's loss, well, they wanted it more. They played with more intensity. How is that humanly possible when you're this close to going to the Finals? Like, how is if. If the Pacers aren't better than. Why are these things happening?

[Kurt Thomas]

Han's not going to like this because we battled on TV about this multiple times. But I think it's a real thing. And I think that to think that a team isn't emotionally and physically tired is an understatement. Right? Like, think about. Indiana won both their series pretty easily. There's been rest, okay? For the style in which they play.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They had nine days off.

[Kurt Thomas]

Nine days off. That factors into it. When you go through a Detroit series that was a physical series, every New Yorker could say, yo, that was a dog fight. Detroit's kind of real. They're coming. Boston was it. Emotionally. Roller coaster type of ride.

[Unknown Speaker]

And they were down big in two games. They worked very hard.

[Kurt Thomas]

Those spurts that they had that came back, they were able to pull that off. Now you get here against a team that has pace and plays fast, and Tibbs is matching that pace to a degree, especially for a guy that absorbs a lot of contact and Jalen Brunson, it's a lot of wear and tear on these guys, physically and emotionally. I don't know how you're not emotionally drained or tired. Once again, no excuses, but I think it was an avalanche effect.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, so you and I argued on this on get up because you didn't say emotional. If you're giving me that part of it, because I said mental fatigue. Because I feel like there's a lot going on in the game. And you've adjusted in the series to get away from your identity. You change your starting lineup, you're playing more players, you're trying things that that's not who you are. This is not who you've been. But you have to, because the Pacers are taking away what makes you great. They're taking Brunson out of it completely. I mean, they're trapping him 35ft from the Basket. They want someone else to beat them. So I feel like now there's a lot of thinking going on and that could be taxing because these games have been close. The point differential in this series is 2.8 per game. Now, I understand the loss by 9, but you see how the series has gone. It has been despite. There has been 15 point leads and 17 point leads and one was a 20 point lead by the end of the game. We all know in the last five minutes this is going to be. There's going to be buckets that matter.

[Unknown Speaker]

But can it be that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I think that part of it for the Knicks has become mentally draining. But tonight, as you said, Jay, I agree with you. This is a zero excuse game.

[Unknown Speaker]

But, Jay, here's zero. Here's the part Allen won't like.

[Kurt Thomas]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

Because we know Alan's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why do you guys keep saying.

[Kurt Thomas]

Very passionate?

[Unknown Speaker]

And he's. Yeah, he's fond of Tibs. I don't know if you know this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He's.

[Unknown Speaker]

He's a bit of a fan of tips.

[Kurt Thomas]

Okay, I'm a fan of tips. That's fine. That's fine. As a person, I mean, I don't really always agree, but I mean, I.

[Unknown Speaker]

Mean, he's been defensive of his coach. Coaching style throughout the season. I would say that's fair. No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, we went from low.

[Kurt Thomas]

We went from low management to the other extreme.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I have defined. I have defended him.

[Unknown Speaker]

He's okay. A Tibbs defender, shall we say?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is it possible that there is fatigue in this team? Even if it's just the style of play? The Pacers are used to running constantly eight or nine players all the time at the end of a game. Is it a coincidence that the Knicks have been falling apart three out of four times at the end of a game? Maybe they're just not physically built to do that because of the way Tibbs operates.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Styles make fights.

[Unknown Speaker]

Styles made fights in the amount of players that play and all of those things.

[Kurt Thomas]

Let's break this down subconsciously. When you're programmed to play through it, you know what you don't do? You don't raise your hand and say, tibs, get me the hell out. I'm tired. You play through it, right? Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

And that's not always great.

[Kurt Thomas]

That's not the right mindset to have against Indiana. The right mindset to have against Indiana. So I need one, I need two minutes. Right. But when your head coach is like, yo, the rigidity in my style says no. I mean, that's why he's had to play Landry. That's why he's had to play Delon. He's been forced to do so. It's just those guys haven't really had the reps at this level to maintain that yet.

[Unknown Speaker]

How much do you expect from guys who have not played at all? And now we need you in a critical spot.

[Kurt Thomas]

Can I tell you what I'm saying? Really excited to see tonight because I think it's a lot about coaching. You're going to Hear the number 77 screamed multiple times where Indiana has the ball. You know what 77 is? It's a double drag screen at the top of the key. It's a double screen. You know who's going to be in 77 every damn possession? Carl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson. What are you doing When Tyrese Haler comes off that and the forcing cat to play in a perimeter, they slip it. They have so many different reads out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Of around the corner.

[Kurt Thomas]

Exactly. So my thing is you got to blow it up up like you got to blow it up. You got to trap Tyrese Halliburton, get the ball out of his hands, deny him the ball back, get blows, rotate people in and out. And also I, I can the Knicks find somebody other than Jalen Brunson that can create a play? Please. Like that's what maybe Deuce McBride has to be it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Bridges has his moments. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But he missed a lot. He was 2 for 10 from 2 in that game. 42 for 10. He's normally the mid. The guy that hits all his mid range.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's how you want him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Two for ten is rough. They don't have other guys that can create. I think in this off season they have to find somebody who is a. Who can play one on one off the. Come off the bench and beat somebody one on one like that. That has the ability that, that we can call plays for you because I don't know if they have that.

[Jason Williams]

Jay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I think Brunson can. We know Townes has his ability when if you play in one on one with a bit.

[Kurt Thomas]

I don't know if I like. I don't know if I like car out the Towns dancing on the but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, but, but it has worked.

[Unknown Speaker]

But he could get to the bucket.

[Kurt Thomas]

Everybody else if his body holds holds up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But everybody else needs a pass like catch and shoot type stuff.

[Kurt Thomas]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know we've seen Adenobi. He really doesn't have a bag. Right. Like Bridges is more of a catch it on the move and shoot kind of guy or Or a the fallback. So I, I think when we talk about going forward, at some point they're going to have to find one more playmaker, like you said, that can at least take the pressure off Jalen Brunson.

[Kurt Thomas]

Well, I like that. I mean, look, we're not going to get pie by tonight's game and they start talking about the offseason. But I will say there will be moments everybody starts this whole thing about Jalen Brunson is on the ball too much and they gotta get him out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, I was going there last with you. I was going there last with you. I heard you guys this morning. I was very jealous that I couldn't be there because you. Wilbon Monica. There were conversations this morning also about last night's game, the Thunder. And I'm watching this thing and I had fomo. Yeah, I had FOMO because that was.

[Kurt Thomas]

A high level basketball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, it was so good. But that Brunson conversation you guys had, which is something I've talked to Greeny about, which is. There are. It's amazing. A narrative that is turning on. Brunson already does this too much, does that too much. Maybe he should be on the bench. And that's. If I could collect a group of.

[Kurt Thomas]

Who said that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, just. All you got to do is just see that. Some of the comments that I get.

[Kurt Thomas]

On Twitter, I don't pay attention.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We get calls, comments and all that.

[Kurt Thomas]

All I'm gonna say is there are. There are moments where I'm like, when you and I like being in the league. And also, I go to a lot of practices. I go to a lot of games. I go. I talk to a lot of players. In a lot of GMs, when you see a player like Jalen Brunson at the ball, you play gaps. I mean, that's what Anthony Edwards saw. He saw four people in gaps. Like, come on, come in here. And like, when you can bring Jalen off the ball a tad. I'm not saying you do it all the time, but it spells him, right? It gives the. It gives you alternate looks offensively where he can come off a pen down, he can make reads. Instead of it just being like, jalen, you're the savior create for us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right?

[Kurt Thomas]

That's why I also, like, I'll be roaming around New York City all the time. I'm From Jersey, I'm 6:2, right? Unless people. One dude over the bar is like, I heard your voice and I knew it was you. But, like, I just, I was able to kind of keep My head down. If you were to see Jalen Brunson walking around New York with a baseball cap on, you wouldn't know. You wouldn't know. That's Jalen Brunson.

[Unknown Speaker]

No.

[Kurt Thomas]

Right. It's so hard for guard, six two. Six two and a half. How would he. How tall are you, Al?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Six. Six.

[Kurt Thomas]

Okay. Like your average height in the league.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Kurt Thomas]

You know how hard it is to do. Think about how many guards 6, 2, 63 have carried the offensive load. But play the style Brunson has. Steph Curry don't play that way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He doesn't take the physical, but he runs off screen. He's constantly running stuff.

[Kurt Thomas]

Agreed. Right. That's why he's had the longevity.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Kurt Thomas]

How to AI play.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm about to say you couldn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

One on one foul. Yeah.

[Kurt Thomas]

Like, that's how he played. You couldn't touch him. Right. So the physicality. There needs to be an adaptation of that style of play to a degree for him to have longevity in his career. And that's on management to find somebody that relieves him from that physicality.

[Unknown Speaker]

And isn't it also from a coach standpoint, on Tibs tonight too? Like, we now know what they're doing to Brunson. Can you as a coach come up with something tonight?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Their offense hasn't been the problem. The turnovers have been the problem. Their offense is averaging 117 points a game.

[Unknown Speaker]

True. 43 points in a quarter.

[Kurt Thomas]

So if that's the case, what is Tibbs calling car Been exactly right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Defense all day long.

[Kurt Thomas]

Now. Tonight's not the night. I need to hear about how bad New York has been defensively throughout the course of the season. Don't want to hear it. Tonight. Tonight is a no excuse night.

[Unknown Speaker]

It has to be.

[Kurt Thomas]

It's a no excuse night. Like, everybody's banged up, everybody's bumped. Cat, your knee. Got it. Tim's defensive challenges. Got it. Jillian, you're emotionally tired. Got it. Nobody gives a damn.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yep.

[Kurt Thomas]

It's fight or flight. What is it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Seasons on the line.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey. Fight or flight. I don't want you to lose your job.

[Kurt Thomas]

Thanks, man. Thank you for. You know what?

[Jason Williams]

You.

[Kurt Thomas]

You do have so much street cred.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's.

[Jason Williams]

That's.

[Unknown Speaker]

And one Don.

[Kurt Thomas]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's mixtape. Done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are you on tomorrow morning?

[Kurt Thomas]

I am.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. I'll see you there.

[Kurt Thomas]

I'll be there with you.

[Alan Hahn]

That's Jason Williams. See him on get up.

[Kurt Thomas]

Not to be confused with White Chocolate or my other guy. Jason.

[Unknown Speaker]

I know. No, no.

[Kurt Thomas]

I love him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jeez.

[Unknown Speaker]

Man.

[Don LaGreca]

What?

[Unknown Speaker]

It's a crazy.

[Kurt Thomas]

I think I see a sound effect.

[Alan Hahn]

It is too soon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

For who?

[Alan Hahn]

For dog lovers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All I know is we've had too much Jersey by nature. Now, Jay, Will.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's a lot. A lot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Peace.

[Kurt Thomas]

J.

[Alan Hahn]

We apologize to everyone. That was at the time, like my brother in the New Jersey Nets fan club.

[Unknown Speaker]

He was literally.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, my brother was.

[Jason Williams]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

An actual actor.

[Alan Hahn]

Season tickets. I was at the game where Dennis Robin headbutted the official. That was.

[Unknown Speaker]

I know you had your moments. I know you had your moments. Thanks again, Jay. He brings it, man.

[Alan Hahn]

No, he's.

[Unknown Speaker]

And he's absolutely right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm not saying it because he's here.

[Alan Hahn]

No, he's terrific.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Phenomenal broadcast again.

[Alan Hahn]

Jersey is represented on this.

[Unknown Speaker]

I forgive. I forgive him for going to Duke. That's how good he is.

[Alan Hahn]

Wow.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm sure he appreciates I've moved past it. I've been willing to move past.

[Alan Hahn]

And I think that that's his win today. Yeah, he's on his way to Madison Square Garden to be on national television. But that's his win today.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, he feels good about it. And by the way, he told. He knows he. I. I liked him early in my original Duke suck songs. He got away very. Oh, very light. I called him a baby. That's all I said.

[Jason Williams]

It's not.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not nothing.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, it was better than what Reddit got the sentence before that rhymes with itch. I think baby. I think baby is a win.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, Mets fans, get ready to roll with DP and Rothenberg for the third annual pregame party. It all happens on Thursday, June 12th. Come join Rick and Dave Live at Publicans in Manhasset from 6 to 10am for the ultimate pregame party. Then ride the train with them to Manhassett Station at Citi Field. The fun keeps going in lot e starting at 11:30, right up to first pitch when Mets take on the Nationals. It's all brought to you by Yingling traditional lager. Legends stand the test of time. And Tullamore do. Because when it's game time, it's Tully time. We've got lots going on here. Don legreca, Alan Hahn, Rick D. Rick Dietro. No, Peter Rosenberg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't know Rick dp. I read it. You never know who Don Han and.

[Alan Hahn]

Rosenberg on 880 ESPN New York and the ESPN New York app. You want to get the most for your money. That's why more Mazda buyers choose Ramsey. Mazda lease a new 2025 Mazda CX30 all wheel drive, only 239 for 36 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda.com choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. Excludes tax, title, registration, zero security deposit Vin SM 820914 MSRP 26,660 and 6,225.

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This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more.

[Unknown Speaker]

The new McCrispy Strip is here. Dip approved by Ketchup Tangy Barbecue Honey Mustard honey mustard Sprite, McFlurry Big Mac sauce Double dipped in Buffalo and Ranch More ranch and creamy chili McCrispy strip dip now at McDonald's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month.

[Kaley Cuoco]

Required intro rate first 3 months only.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees. Extra default [e-mail] thanks for listening to.

[Don LaGreca]

The Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Unknown Speaker]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don LaGreca]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

Game Time is brought to you by Telemar New Irish Whiskey because when it's game Time, I love that. Getting some crowd participation here. The Knicks look to keep their season alive in game five with coverage immediately following us here on 880 at seven o' clock and the Liberty will be in action at seven.

[Unknown Speaker]

You don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't. The original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish Whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore due and try the new Tullamore Dew Honey during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. The Valkyrie, that's who. The liberty you're taking on, Peter. The Valkyrie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Valkyries.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's a real Valkyries.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, that's a New franchise.

[Unknown Speaker]

Good for them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Valkyries.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Valkyries sounds better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what it is.

[Alan Hahn]

But Valkyries sounds better. I'm going to go with that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Valkyries.

[Unknown Speaker]

None of it sounds great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is it Golden State, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Golden State, Yeah. I believe you're right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it's the new Warriors WNBA team.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, so we got ENN coming up at 6. After ENN, Alan is going to jump over to the Garden for his MSG duties.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, you like your dream.

[Alan Hahn]

So this is really the last segment to kind of break it down.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Literally. I dreamed, actually.

[Alan Hahn]

We kind of started the show talking about, you know, Peter said, got to get off to a good start. I said, got to cut down on the turnovers. Alan, what say you? As we get ready for game five here, what is first and foremost on your mind to be able to get this back to Indiana on Saturday?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, the start to the game. And I loved what Jay Will said because it is something that we've all kind of been hinting to. When we opened the show and we started talking about all the things that we don't want to see tonight. Now it's so easy for us as fans and media. It's always the first place we go. We had Kurt Thomas here earlier, so there's a guy that represented that era. And we all tend to do what we remember back in the day with Mason and Oakley and Ewing and Starks. And that was no layups. That was when they come down the lane, make sure they feel it. And if one guy gets a foul, the second guy can't get a foul because he's already been fouled once.

[Jason Williams]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the idea of physicality that we know this team has because we saw it in the Detroit series when they were forced to play that way and they got away from it because they didn't have to play that way against Boston. And in this series, it's sort of been an up and down, run and gun kind of series that the Knicks got caught up in and they've gotten away from it. Now, you can't ask a team to change who they are. This is a mentally tough team, but they haven't exactly been a physically tough team tonight. They have to be tonight. They've got to keep Halliburton from dancing. They got to keep him from having a smile on his face. They got to keep him from being comfortable because he opened game four and he was very comfortable.

[Kurt Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, it wasn't going to the basket. He hit a 30 footer, a 26 footer. And a 27 footer. I mean those are way downtown threes. But it got him into rhythm. Why? Because you stayed off him? Because Don, you're him and I'm the closest defender and he took comfortable shots. The 30 footer in today's NBA sounds like a far away shot. It's not.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's a layup.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In today's guys practice these shots all the time and when they see one go in, they think the next 10 are going in. So I do feel like this is a game that someone's got to decide whether it's Mikhail Bridges who was embarrassed he even said it after game, I've got to be better or Josh Hart or anyone else who ends up with that dude in front of them. And you have to have a collective mentality of, you know what, there might be some other guys on this team that could beat us tonight, but you ain't right. And, and I think that kind of mentality attitude that is literally fighting for your life. I need to see that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Are you saying, are you saying the same attitude that the Pacers essentially bring to Jalen Brunson every night?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

We're going to dare someone else to do this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Yeah. Who's it going to be? Going to be you.

[Unknown Speaker]

And by the way, that is what the scary part is potentially for the Snakes offense. And I know we've talked about the fact the offense has been pretty good. If Cat is limited and Jalen Brunson gets the same attack he's been getting, do they have another trick up their sleeve? Can Bridges, can Anunoby. I mean, can we get a big 20, 25 point game from OG and Unobi? We know those are the games guys that have guaranteed wins for this.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh yeah, guaranteed. You're right.

[Unknown Speaker]

So can we get that? Because we really. When you think about this series, Cat had the monster fourth quarter in game three. Besides that, it's kind of hard to pick out who's had a special, truly special night. Jalen had 31 in game four, but he wasn't special. He was special in the second quarter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was special right early in the second quarter. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

By the second half he wasn't special. Can we get something special from anyone on this team? Jalen Brunson or otherwise?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Interesting. Yeah, that, that's.

[Unknown Speaker]

We haven't gotten a lot of it, guys. It, it's the. So far the, the, the moments are defined by the Carl Anthony Towns fourth quarter in game three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now let me give you the injury report right now. Official report from the NBA is posted at 5:30 towns is still listed as questionable, but if you want to have a giggle, Aaron NE Smith, also listed as questionable with the right ankle sprain. So as we know, this is now where, of course, the.

[Jason Williams]

The game.

[Alan Hahn]

Of course. But we did see at the end of game four, Cat rubbing his knee at the. Like, you could see that he was in distress.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Have you ever had neon knee, like, you played sports, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A knee like the kneecap just drilling into your core quad or into your own knee like that hurts like hell.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

So. But, I mean, it's not dangerous, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

So, no, he went back in the game and he finished the game. And that's what Tib said he was. He was cleared to play.

[Unknown Speaker]

You know what you do? You know what you do?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Rub some dirt on it.

[Unknown Speaker]

You say, give me some of that pink stuff that Stefan Diggs had on the boat with the strippers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What was that?

[Unknown Speaker]

And get me back.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What is that pink stuff, by the way, was that. Does it look like it was working?

[Unknown Speaker]

He listened to my. My guys. I don't know how the football thing's going to end here for Stefan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know.

[Unknown Speaker]

You know, because it started because, like, things were good in Minnesota, right? A lot of offense. Then he goes to Buffalo. Just probably the best offensive receiver could ever want to be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he was unhappy, wasn't happy there.

[Unknown Speaker]

Then he ended up having a cup of coffee in Houston.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And now it's like. Now it's like Don's Drop. And now he's a Patriot.

[Alan Hahn]

The Patriot after, you know, Belichick, which.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is the same Patriot. So I don't know the football story. I'm not sure it's going the right direction. Direction.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But the pink stuff, you say it is effective.

[Unknown Speaker]

He's having a. He's having a good time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's working.

[Unknown Speaker]

He's having a good stuff. You know, listen, Maryland, you know, we have a good time out there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that again, you can't ask the team to take on the identity. Getting back to the Knicks here, taking on the identity of a team from the past that we all loved. Right. You.

[Kurt Thomas]

You can't.

[Unknown Speaker]

Can they. How about a page from the book?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's right. That's a page. That's my point, is that. That it does happen a lot where we just go, why don't you just knock him on his ass? And that's. Yes, it's easier said than done, but it doesn't mean that you can't just play with that little bit of an edge that lets them know it's going to be a night. And if you're going to beat us tonight.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. You know what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're going to. You're going to. There's. We're going to take a piece of you before you leave this building. You know, if you win, we still are going to take a piece out of you.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you know what the problem is? The two guys who are most likely to be. That wrapped up their series last night for Minnesota. I'm sorry, the guys who might have gotten sick of it and stood up a bit. You're telling me Dante and Julius Randle wouldn't have been more.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know. How much of a fight did Julius Randle put up last night? How much of a fight did he put up in that series where they were getting physical with him, making him turn the ball over to a point where his coach couldn't play him anymore?

[Unknown Speaker]

Listen, I'm not. I'm not calling Dennis Rodman or Rick Mahorn, right. I'm saying relative to the group we have out here right now, I think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The guy you're thinking of is Isaiah Hartenstein. He's on the other team.

[Unknown Speaker]

And then there's that one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he. He's a guy that definitely didn't mind lowering the boom every now and then. He. And he's a guy you'd want for. But everybody understands how that. How you have to play sometimes. And even if it's just, you know, just playing within the margins, but right on the margins, just to let them know. And they did this group did that in the Piston Series. They did that. So what you're wondering is, do you have anything left to do it?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, that scene. You just said it. Do you have anything left to do it? Because we can argue until we're blue in the face about whether. What kind of fatigue. Emotional fatigue. Mental fatigue. Physical fatigue. Fact is, it's a long season. This is game 99. Yeah, it's actually game 99.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't even put that. I didn't put those numbers together.

[Jason Williams]

Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

And so it's. And you're playing every other day. It's not like second round where you take a couple of days off and, you know, playing every other day. That does expend a lot of energy. That. Do they have that energy to expend? We're going to find out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Alan Hahn]

ENN is coming up next. And then it's on, baby. Pat o' Keefa will lead you in to Tyler and Monica with game five from the Garden Pacers and the Knicks right here on 880 ESPN New York and the ESPN New York.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And for the Knicks fans who are trying to keep their season going, they're going to need great defense. You know that's the most important part of any team's success. A great defense for your business. That's important too. The truth is, 1/3 of businesses will unwittingly turn over their sensitive company data to thieves this year. Turnovers a major problem on the basketball court and also in business. Now. In an instant, your customer files bank accounts, everything is compromised and you won't know until the million dollar ransom demand hits your email. Preventing data turnovers is why your business needs Thrive, the leading managed security services provider in the US it all starts with a comprehensive Thrive cyber risk assessment. Thrive security analysts identify security gaps and deliver proactive solutions to help you keep your network healthy and protected. Now listen, it's not a matter of if, it's when. Are you ready? Get your no obligation security recommendations and consultation. Your business relies on it. Visit thrive nextgen.com espn that's thrive nextgen.com.

[Don LaGreca]

Espn thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.

[Don LaGreca]

Hear more of Don, Alan and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.