Hour 3: Looking Better

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 3: Looking Better

Date: November 17, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Focus: New York sports talk with a primary focus on the Giants' head coaching situation, team direction, and some Knicks and pop culture banter.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the New York Giants’ ongoing transition—including the firing of Brian Daboll and interim head coach Mike Kafka’s outlook. The hosts wade through debates about tanking versus building a winning culture, Kafka’s merits and potential, and what the Giants truly need next. Interspersed are signature bouts of banter about personal quirks, wrestling nostalgia, and a quick check-in on the Knicks' injury drama.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Tone: Banter & Big City Energy

• The hour opens with their trademark light, self-deprecating humor, joking about Don’s windblown hair and how he looks on YouTube.
  • "Look at my hair. My hair was perfect when I left the house. ...It's because of the damn wind in New York." —Don La Greca [01:27]
• Star Wars references abound, poking fun at Alan's nerd status, and riffing on the idea that being a Star Wars superfan might harm one's dating life.
  • "You don't volunteer to basically be a professional virgin. And that's what it is to be obsessed with Star Wars." —Peter Rosenberg [03:53]
  • "I could walk in as Jar Jar Binks and still take somebody home." —Alan Hahn [06:04]

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2. Giants Coaching Debates: Mike Kafka’s Audition

a. Kafka’s First Impressions

• The hosts discuss how Kafka’s demeanor is a welcome change after Daboll’s dramatic, sometimes off-putting sideline antics.
  • "Everything's going to sound better and look better than Dable, right? ...You just have a better feel." —Alan Hahn [09:07]
  • "Literally, the sound of Kafka's voice sounds refreshing because I was so sick of hearing Dable." —Peter Rosenberg [09:17]

b. Staff Continuity and Head Coach Qualities

• Kafka confirms there are no immediate staff changes, signaling continuity for the Giants through the transition.
  • [Kafka clip] "I would say status quo. ...We're going to go and attack this week. I'm excited for this week of prep." [08:10]
• The guys question Kafka’s credentials—does he get interviews due to the Rooney rule, Kansas City pedigree, or actual leadership qualities?
  • "[Kafka's] gotten interviews for head coaching positions. ...Maybe there's something about him where they believe that he could actually make for a good head coach?" —Alan Hahn [14:53]
  • "What's the evidence? He's never been a head coach." —Don La Greca [15:01]

c. The Daboll Debacle

• Detailed critique of why Daboll failed in New York: rigid methods, poor handling of players, lack of composure, and failure to innovate on offense.
  • "He couldn't handle the players, he couldn't handle the media. He just didn't look the part..." —Alan Hahn [15:11]
  • "All of them [recent Giants coaches] never seem to have the sack to stand at the podium and make decisions that are based on football and what's best for the team." —Don La Greca [13:08]

d. Kafka’s Prospects & Giants’ Future

• Speculation that Kafka is being set up for a legitimate shot—favoring stability, possible internal promotion over another franchise reset.
  • "Kafka feels like ...the more simple way to go with the hope that with a coach who's just making decisions based on football, you could have won those games you lost." —Don La Greca [17:52]
  • "We can't ...under emphasize the importance at this point ...just keeping things simple." —Peter Rosenberg [17:53]

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3. Tanking vs. Culture: The Eternal Debate

a. The Case Against Tanking

• The hosts share strong opinions favoring building a winning culture over losing for draft picks—a stance challenged by callers.

  • "I don't have any evidence other than talking to ...former players. ...Losing just corrodes an organization." —Alan Hahn [31:28]
  • "Tanking is just a sign of dysfunction and a disconnect between management and the team." —Caller Jimmy [47:57]

• Tanking narratives are dismissed as “lazy thinking.”

  • "It's just. It's lazy thinking to always fall back to saying that losing and tanking for a high draft pick is better for a franchise." —Don La Greca [34:27]
  • "It's a tired argument... Where's Chase Young now? ...Now where's Daniel Jones now?" —Alan Hahn [36:26]

• "You lose because you're not good. You want to know that you've got good players on this roster that if coached properly, they can get you into the playoffs." —Alan Hahn [34:27]

b. The Other Side: Callers and Host Responses

• Callers argue winning late-season "culture games" hasn't propelled the Giants forward, and losing could land better draft assets.
  • "These culture wins that we have had in the past, they haven't done anything. ...We could have got Drake May. We could have had Jaden Daniels." —Caller Chris [27:19]
• The team evaluates tanking in light of actual roster needs (not needing signature positions that typically go top-5 in the draft).
  • "You're not taking a cornerback in the top five. ...You don't want a quarterback. You don't need an edge rusher." —Don La Greca [31:07]
  • "Isn't it possible that Jackson Dart might end up being the better quarterback?" —Alan Hahn [30:02]

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4. Mike Kafka: Victim, Accomplice, or Unexplored Talent?

• Debate on whether Kafka’s hand was forced under Daboll or if he shares blame for the Giants’ offensive struggles.
  • "He was not just around a toxic environment. He was a part of it." —Caller Tessa [44:53]
  • "But is it possible that Kafka maybe had ideas of making the offense better because Dable was an offensive guy, he ended up winning those face offs?" —Alan Hahn [45:47]
  • "You can't be sure Kafka was in any way complicit in the vanilla offense. ...You could tell how happy [Daboll] was [after a win]. He was desperate for any win they could get." —Peter Rosenberg [46:11]

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5. Quarterback Talk: Value of Draft Picks

• A rundown of top quarterbacks and where they were drafted, reinforcing the "draft pick" lottery argument.
  • "Stop me when I get to the guy who was the number one pick in the draft... Mahomes was taken 10th overall. That's the end of the argument. Done." —Alan Hahn [38:51 & 38:57]
  • "I'm with situation and system, fellas. That's what it is. But we get caught up in the number one pick thing..." —Don La Greca [39:24]

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6. Knicks & Pop Culture Check-in

• Brief Knicks segment: team injuries, concern about depth (no timestamp, passes quickly).
• WWE and John Cena nostalgia: Rosenberg reflects on how Cena brought him back to wrestling.
  • "Tonight, he will step in MSG for the last time. ...This is what basically brought me back into wrestling 20 years ago..." —Peter Rosenberg [22:44]

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7. Listener Interaction: Meat of the Show

Callers deliver passionate takes on whether Kafka deserves a shot, what the Giants should do next, and whether the only way out is a hard reset.

Notable Caller Quotes:

• "I'm tired of being tested with my loyalty every week. ...Drain the whole pool and put fresh water in it. ...He was putting trash on the field." —Caller Tessa [45:13]
• "Tanking is just a sign of dysfunction and a disconnect between management and the team." —Jimmy, Connecticut [47:57]

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8. Miscellaneous Banter

• Alan signs Peter’s baseball cards.
• Runner-up: banter on the uniqueness of wearing a winter hat on a baseball card photo.
  • "Who wears a winter hat on a baseball card? It's a terrible choice." —Peter Rosenberg [26:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It's like our whole pool has pee in it or whatever like that. Drain the whole pool and put fresh water in it." —Caller Tessa [45:13]
• "The improvements you're looking for are not your draft pick value right now. The improvements you're looking for are the cult[ure]." —Don La Greca [35:35]
• "Have we gotten so spoiled by all these games, we just throw them away for picks? Ask the Sixers how the process is going." —Alan Hahn [36:26]
• "In the moment, man, ...can I just sit there, enjoy my team trying to win a frigging game, for God's sakes?" —Alan Hahn [30:38]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Kafka’s press availability and philosophy: [08:10]
• Kafka’s coaching prospects and debate: [14:53 – 18:00]
• Tanking vs. Winning culture: [27:19 Caller Chris], [31:28 Losing culture effects], [34:27 Tanking rationale]
• Caller Tessa’s critique of Kafka: [44:53]
• Quarterback draft pick breakdown: [38:11 – 39:43]

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Episode Tone

Conversational, snarky, passionate, and occasionally irreverent—classic New York sports radio. The tone is candid, frequently tongue-in-cheek, but the hosts’ deep knowledge and affection for the local teams (and their listeners) shines through.

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TL;DR

Main takeaway:
The Giants’ coaching situation is up in the air, but the hosts lean toward maintaining stability and building a culture of winning. Tanking is roundly dismissed as harmful to organizational health. The debate over Mike Kafka centers on whether he’s part of the solution or tainted by the previous regime. Callers inject strong emotions—including calls for a hard reset—but the hosts stand firm on the value of competing and developing young talent.

Memorable thought:
Letting young players taste “winning” is worth more than draft wishcasting—even if it means sticking with an unproven coach. As Don puts it, "You're not winning a damn thing if your culture's bad." [35:35]

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Transcript

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday. Because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Commercial Voice]

Taxes and fees extra.

[Don La Greca]

See mintmobile.com this is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don La Greca]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

502 on this pretty blush city Monday. In the big city.

[Don La Greca]

In the big city.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In the big city.

[Alan Hahn]

It is big.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's.

[Don La Greca]

You tell me. I tried too hard.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that was.

[Alan Hahn]

Come on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you know what?

[Mike Kafka]

I don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

Tell them, Peter. That's the way it works.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, it depends. That was. It was right on the line, Don.

[Don La Greca]

It was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You filth bag.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It is 43 degrees, guys. Feels like 33 as of right now.

[Alan Hahn]

It's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's blustery out there.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, it's. It's blowing.

[Alan Hahn]

See, that's trying to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what?

[Mike Kafka]

I don't know.

[Don La Greca]

Tell me I'm wrong.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, he's right. It's. It's. It's. It's blowing out there.

[Don La Greca]

Look at my hair. My hair was perfect when I left the house wreck. And I gotta be. No, it's all because of the damn wind in New York. So when you all see it and you go, what the hell's wrong with him? It looks like he just got out of bed. It's because of the wind. Leave me alone. Bad day. Bad hair day.

[Alan Hahn]

When looking at your hair, which from my angle, looks absolutely perfect.

[Don La Greca]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

I. It's weird you're saying all this. I know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's almost like he wants people to tell him it's good.

[Alan Hahn]

No, this is a radio work.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

Right. I'm on radio and I'm asking people to tell you my hair looks good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's the weird part. That's why it's like he. But he's still now. Also, Alan, we haven't discussed Don's look today. What do you think of Don Vader?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, the downlight is something because you can't see his eyes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got it. You gotta come. You gotta jump in the YouTube. ESPN New York.

[Don La Greca]

On YouTube.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You gotta check out Don's.

[Don La Greca]

The Ramapo sweatshirt, but definitely the downtown.

[Alan Hahn]

I want him look.

[Don La Greca]

No, he looks like Count Dooku.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't know who that is. Oh, I'm losing lights here in my man cave. And I wanted to be comfortable because I got a flight to Tampa tonight. So I wanted something that was comfortable on the plane, but looks okay. And I'm proud of Rampo College.

[Don La Greca]

Of course you are. They're proud of you.

[Alan Hahn]

That, and it's not gonna be too uncomfortable once I. You know, it's 80 degrees when I get off the plane, so I wanted to find something.

[Don La Greca]

No, you're good. I already know what I'm getting you for for Christmas, so I can't wait. But you right now if. Because we played the Star wars music. Anthony, please confirm. He looks like Count Dooku. Yes. That is a very excellent description of what. Thank you.

[Alan Hahn]

Don't underestimate the Force. I know Puck Doku, but I don't know who.

[Don La Greca]

Just take my word for it. You are. You're pulling it off today.

[Alan Hahn]

Your powers are weak, old man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was a Sith Lord God, I gotta tell, you know.

[Alan Hahn]

So you're saying I look like slip whenever you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't understand what Don just said.

[Don La Greca]

Don looks like Sith.

[Alan Hahn]

Sith Sliff.

[Don La Greca]

I don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

I really don't know. Listen, my.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, my.

[Alan Hahn]

Star wars is the big three in the seventies.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, me too. Me too. Now, listen.

[Don La Greca]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The nice thing we have, Don, is that whenever we think like, this is what you have to remember at Allen when I talk about what a lunatic.

[Alan Hahn]

He is, is that if on this from the beginning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I've known. I. It took me a little time, but, like, it was like three days of work. And I'm like, oh, he's a psycho. This whole time I thought he was perfect. No, he's a psycho. This is how you know. Because you look like Alan Han. You work in basketball, you're on television. Everything's there. You don't volunteer to basically be a professional virgin. And that's what it is to be obsessed with Star Wars. So, like the fact.

[Don La Greca]

Ridiculous.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The fact that he is that hardcore nerd about something.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. Yes. With no idea. It's what makes you. What's on that side of things. You'd be amazed at how many women love Star Wars.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, no, listen, Alan, you don't have.

[Don La Greca]

Boo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't have to convince us that you've done well in your life. We know it's not about the Star Wars. You can't tell us that's helping you. It can't be.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, no, it doesn't help.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. You've got to be hiding. In fact, I bet you're hiding it until they're close enough.

[Alan Hahn]

He does so well. This is like the donut on a bat in the on deck circle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's extra weight. Just to feel loose when he takes it off.

[Alan Hahn]

The Star wars stuff is just to make it a challenge.

[Don La Greca]

It's like, do I, do I like, I throw that out at the very end, like, by the way. And I just start quoting Han Solo.

[Alan Hahn]

To see when you, when you. Like this is.

[Don La Greca]

That's when you know they're a keeper. When they stay.

[Alan Hahn]

This is too easy. I gotta give me the donut. Give me three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm. Put three donuts on it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I gotta throw a little ring.

[Don La Greca]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

Just to.

[Don La Greca]

I told you guys, man, I'm. I am that. That building with the scaffolding around it. And you just keep wondering. They're still working on that thing. Yeah, that's me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, you're. Cuz you're fully in on the Star wars, right? Like hardcore.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. It's the first movie I ever saw in a movie theater.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you're all the way caught up. You went through all of them?

[Don La Greca]

Absolutely. Multiple times.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do you have any sort. Like, what's your merch? Do you have any merch?

[Don La Greca]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, you stop.

[Don La Greca]

I don't, I don't. I don't do that. I'm not big like that. I don't go that crazy, you know?

[Alan Hahn]

Remember, like, Frank Sinatra made the bet that he could. He could turn any song into a hit, and he won by making Old MacDonald a hit. Like, Alan would walk into the clubs dressed as a stormtrooper just to show everybody I could still get it done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Look at me.

[Alan Hahn]

I bet you I can walk in there as a stormtrooper and leave with.

[Peter Rosenberg]

My own Princess Leia. You know what I mean?

[Alan Hahn]

Exactly. I could go. I could walk in as Jar Jar Binks and still take somebody home.

[Don La Greca]

Don't know if I would ever do that. That's a career ender.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And by the way, you can't, Don. If you bring up Jar Jar Binks to a. To a true Star wars person, like.

[Alan Hahn]

They throw it in their mouth.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're offended.

[Alan Hahn]

They're offended. That's why I went there. I would just try.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's the equivalent of Jar Jar Binks?

[Don La Greca]

You're not.

[Alan Hahn]

You're thinking of what?

[Peter Rosenberg]

What?

[Alan Hahn]

No, I got it. Jar Jar Binks didn't they edit him out of the. That film because it was. It tested so poorly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait, did they remove Jar Jar Binks?

[Alan Hahn]

I think they left. Which was it like 20 or whatever one was like 20 years ago. The Jar Jar Binks. Wasn't there an issue with him?

[Don La Greca]

Yes, there was an issue.

[Alan Hahn]

People were disgusted with him.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, he was me A lot of things that were. He was Me too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was Me too. Jar Jar Binks was a sexual harass and they took him out of the film. They removed Jar Jar.

[Don La Greca]

Jabba the Hutt would be something hun. Listen, I respect Jabba.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Don La Greca]

How do you not?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You mean because he had Princess Leia chained to him?

[Don La Greca]

He was a slob, yet he dominated. So he didn't care. His look had nothing. It didn't matter. He dominated.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a great point.

[Don La Greca]

He was the don. He got what he wanted.

[Alan Hahn]

And then there was Pizza the Hut in Spaceballs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not similar based similar.

[Don La Greca]

Let's hear.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You guys want to hear from interim head coach Mike Kafka?

[Alan Hahn]

Sure.

[Don La Greca]

Do we have to? Yes. Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Come on.

[Don La Greca]

I didn't mean it like that. I did, but I.

[Alan Hahn]

How did you mean?

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, let's hear what he sounds like. Because, you know, we heard from a listener earlier, loved the way he looked on the sideline, which by the way, sounds silly, but I get it. Considering the common thought now is that Dable looked like a complete goofball on the sideline. So it's a small thing, but for whatever reason, and we. We talked about this some last week, guys, Dable seemed to show over and over again that there was something about the way he carried himself that was just not head coach like. So I think people just liked seeing Kafka at least not show those things. He didn't kiss anyone after the game ended. Here's Kafka on any potential staff changes.

[Mike Kafka]

I would say status quo. I don't anticipate any. As a matter of fact, we're going to go and attack this week. I'm excited for this week of prep. The coaches are excited about it. We just watched the tape with some fresh ideas. So, you know, this would be a couple of good work days here and we'll get the players in tomorrow. We'll set that plan in motion.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And this is the Giants recap, of course, driven by Ramsey, Mazda. Kafka was asked about how he would balance Dart's tendency for aggressive play while also trying to keep him healthy.

[Mike Kafka]

Jackson going through the whole draft process with him and understand what kind of player is he's an aggressive player, and that's what we love about him. But obviously, you know, you want to show them some examples that he can learn from. I think he's going through that now. I think he'll. He'll continue to grow from those things, but at the end of the day, you know, he is a competitor, and that's why we love this guy. And, and I think he'll. He'll continue to learn and grow, but you don't want to put a player like that in a box. Obviously, you want to give him some. Some show the examples that he can improve on, and I think he'll take.

[Don La Greca]

That to the bank.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead, Don.

[Alan Hahn]

I was going to say it's. Everything's going to sound better and look better than Dable. Right? I mean, everybody was done with him, so it's true. I don't want to over exaggerate everything, but you just have a better feel.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, literally, the sound of Kafka's voice sounds refreshing because I was so sick of hearing Dable. I was just. I was so over the nonsense. And listen, I don't want to make Dable out to be the worst that we've had in this market because he's nowhere near. He's not a top fiver. But I was over it by the end. And, you know, there are just a couple of things this year that we've talked about today that stood out with Dable, and some of them were really glaring yesterday. And the biggest example to me being seeing how much better that offense was with Jameis Winston than Russell Wilson. And it just made me think how stubborn was this guy. It seems like guys, Don, sort of like, you know, the times when we felt like he really wasn't fair to Daniel Jones, keeping. Keeping him in games when he absolutely should have brought him out, but he was always trying to sort of teach him a lesson. Dable just seemed to be a guy who was very stuck in his ways. And at least at his time in New York. I can't speak for Buffalo, but. But his time in New York, Don, those ways didn't bring anything great.

[Alan Hahn]

But there's got to be a reason why Winston was third on the depth chart and why he was not given a chance to back up. It was like there was no option. And then immediately after Dable's gone, they had no problem putting Winston back in. Now, it was an easy decision. Wilson didn't look good when he came in for dart darts and concussion protocol. So I don't want to make, you know, Kafka out to be a hero or anything, but it did seem interesting. And again, he didn't set the world on fire, but he was efficient. And it makes you start to think that if he had backed up Dart, maybe Denver doesn't happen, you know, maybe the game last week in Chicago doesn't happen. You know, maybe Winston might have made something happen late where they could have held on to the lead because he just looked like a competent quarterback. And the other thing too, guys, he looked like a guy that wanted to play. And I'm not talking about the singing in the press conference and all that. That's all kind of performative by him, but you could see he was engaged, he wanted to play. He was looking forward to that opportunity where Russell Wilson looked like he wanted to be anywhere else in the world. But on the field when he came in there, especially in relief, it was different when he was starting. But then after that Dallas fiasco in overtime, it all just seemed to go downhill. And yet Winston wasn't even a thought. Why was he not on board with the Winston signing to begin with? Did he get under his skin? Although for whatever, you know, whatever it's worth, Winston had nothing but praise for Dable and said Dable was the reason why he was there in the first place. So I don't. There's got to be something that would make all this make sense.

[Don La Greca]

See, and I never like looking back. Like, to me, it's like, what's done is done, right? So it's over. That guy's gone. But this all though continues to me make me focus on what's next and what you need and why you want all this BS to never come back again. Like all the stuff, like, why wouldn't you have played? Like the common sense stuff, the decisions that you make, that you just go, well, that makes sense, right? Like, that makes sense. Do that when a player isn't. You know, whenever you see a player playing and he shouldn't be playing, you know, it's not a sport. It's not. It's not a football decision. There's some other decision that's also impacted. I hate that I never, ever want to see that. You play your best players, you make your decisions not based on contract, not based performance, and that's it. It's a meritocracy. But it doesn't always work that way in sports. We know that. And some coaches don't operate that way, and that's annoying. But if you're the Giants, after all these coaches that you've run in and out of this place. And all of them never seem to have the sack to stand at the podium and make decisions that are based on football and what's best for the team. Tom Crawford, the last guy that did it and he got sent out because he could, he couldn't. He wasn't allowed to do it with certain players, including Odell Beckham Jr. That he was told to start.

[Mike Kafka]

Like.

[Don La Greca]

Like, to me, that's all I care about. Who is the next coach going to be and what can we learn about this latest fiasco that tells you you can't keep hiring the same type of people? That's all I care about. I brought up Gruden before for a reason. Because everybody loves that part of Gruden, which is the character of him that looks like the tough, no nonsense coach that's going to stare down the media and sneer at players and. And because he's supposed to be an offensive genius. And I'm telling you, that's a character that's not really who he is now, but they got to find somebody who can be.

[Alan Hahn]

Now the thing is, is that Kafka's gotten interviews for head coaching positions. Now that could be explained away by the Rooney rule because he's part Puerto Rican and maybe that's why he was getting those interviews or because he came from the Kansas City tree and everybody loves those guys. Although Eric B. Enemy never got anything. Maybe it's also because there's never been anything about Kafka that really moved me. Like anything that he's done. Not like the Giants offense has been overly explosive in the time that he's been here. But maybe there's another reason guy. Maybe they just feel like he will make a good head coach because he has the demeanor, he has the qualities that make for a good head coach. We get so caught up in the X's and O's and rightly so, more so than in any other sport. Is he a quarterback whisperer? Does he do well on offense? What's his bailiwick? What makes him a great coach? And then we find all the other things that end up being your downfall. The demeanor, the handling of the media, the handling of the players, the adjustments at halftime, all the things that a head coach has to do. Is it possible. Maybe I'm reaching here, but is it possible that the reason Kafka gets interviews is because there's something about him where they believe that he could actually make.

[Peter Rosenberg]

For a good head coach? That's what they.

[Alan Hahn]

That's got to be the hope Right. He's gonna get a real chance at this.

[Don La Greca]

But what's the evidence? He's never been a head coach.

[Alan Hahn]

He's never. No. But maybe there's something that other people have seen that say he's got the demeanor to be head coach. Because I could tell you.

[Don La Greca]

Is he that impressive in the interview?

[Alan Hahn]

Maybe, because all I look at, I look at Dable, right? And obviously he got this opportunity because of how well things went in Buffalo, but you could see he couldn't handle it. He couldn't handle the players, he couldn't handle the media. He just didn't look the part, he didn't act the part. But we, we overlooked all that because the football, the offense, the, the quarterback play of Josh Allen was so good, we overlooked it. Could it be the opposite with Kafka? There's nothing football wise, that'll blow you away, but boy, he's got the right demeanor, the way he deals with players. It can't just be the Puerto Rican angle. Why he always seems to get interviews. So is there something to it? Is it really just strictly the Rooney rule and that's the only reason he keeps coming up, or is there something else that makes you think he could be good and the Giants, I really think, are greasing the skids to give him the best possible chance to get this job?

[Don La Greca]

I agree.

[Alan Hahn]

Why? Is it the continuity or is there. Are there people around the league that feel like there might be something there with him? We'll see.

[Don La Greca]

I think it's the continuity thing, I think that's important right now with the franchise because there is a. They don't want to keep going through transition because you want to keep it. Like, look again, as we said, when Dable was fired, when you looked at the record and you looked at the four games they lost that they should have won, three of them that they had in their hand in the fourth quarter, double digit leads. That's when you said, you know what? The roster is not that bad. This thing is heading in the right direction. The problem is the guy at the top was too erratic and too emotional. Couldn't handle a defensive coordinator who was very good, ran into a tent, verbally abused a quarterback that we had that actually is now playing somewhere else. And playing at an MVP level like that was the issue. The issue wasn't the roster wasn't good enough. The issue was the leader at the very top wasn't good enough. So can you find a leader that's good enough and be competitive? And maybe that's the easiest thing to do so that there's no again. Hiring a new coach means that coach, especially an experienced one, might say, I want my own gm and that upsets the entire franchise. It flips everything over and you feel like you're starting over again and trying to rebuild and now it's my players instead of the former guys players. It's a lot to go through when you do it that dramatically. So Kafka feels like Don the I don't want to say the easy route, but it just feels like the more simple way to go with the hope that with a coach who's just making decisions based on football, you could have won those games you lost and your record will look dramatically different today than it did.

[Alan Hahn]

Very different.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And we can't, I think, under emphasize the importance at this point with everything John Mayer is dealing with and just keeping things simple. If there's a world in which they can keep things simple, keep Joe Shane, keep Kafka and keep moving forward in that direction. And people are like somewhat good with that. I think they'll lean that way given the moment. But guys, real quick, I want to tell you something about Amazon Pickup.

[Alan Hahn]

All right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the ultimate convenience play. And we all know Amazon's already part of your everyday life, but Amazon Pickup takes it the next level. If you're time pressed, you're always on the go like I am. You can choose to send your orders straight to a secure pickup location that works for you. Amazon lockers and counters are located right near you, no matter where you're at, no matter where your date takes you. So your package is ready when you are, right? Life never slows down. So instead of worrying about timing or schedules, your package is waiting right there for me. With a baby at home running around the 19 jobs, I'm constantly on the move. Amazon Pickup gives me the flexibility to grab what I need between shows, errands, my commute, all that stuff. It's simple. You order online and at checkout. Just choose the pickup location that's most convenient. You get an email confirmation when it's ready with instructions to pick it up. It's quick, secure, and always at no extra cost. Check it out for yourself. Go to Amazon.com pickup MVP to learn more. That's Amazon.com pickup MVP. All right, guys, let's take a break. Let's towel off for a moment, shall we?

[Alan Hahn]

Sure, why not?

[Peter Rosenberg]

But before I towel off, I need to tell you that was the Giants recap driven by Ramsey Mazda.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, it was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's the experience of driving a new Mazda and buying a new Mazda from Ramsey Mazda. Ramsey Mazda. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Shorter days don't have to be so dismal. It's time to reach out and check in with those you care and to remind ourselves that we're not alone. As seasons change and days grow darker, sooner can be a tough time for many. This November, BetterHelp's encouraging everyone to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones, and remind the people in your life that you're there. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. Sure Questionnaire helps you identify your needs and preferences, and our 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means we typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist anytime from our tailored recommendations this month. Don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month. Just call pound250 and say the keyword timeout. That's keyword timeout after calling pound2.50.

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[Don La Greca]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don La Greca]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh yeah, that's John Cena again, folks. We're celebrating his whole catalog. I mean Listen, I gotta tell you, that wasn't one of my favorite choices, what you just chose, but I. I went through his album today, you Can't See Me, which came out in 2005, and I'll just say it's better than it had any business, being like, there's a handful of songs on that are actually pretty good. And now, tonight, he will step in MSG for the last time. And it's his last ever Raw, period, because he has Survivor Series. And then it all closes out December 13th in Washington, D.C. at Saturday night's main event. But this is John Cena's last Raw, guys. This is what basically brought me back into wrestling 20 years ago, was me seeing John Cena and hearing his music and going, oh, who's that guy? I can maybe check out this wrestling thing again. I used to love this as a kid, and my life changed. Look at me now. Tomorrow, I got a hustle out of here early.

[Alan Hahn]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I can go do commentary for nxt. Because we have a couple of my guys and gals from Evolve who have matches, and they're putting me in the booth.

[Alan Hahn]

Nice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even the booth, which I'm very excited about. I mean, listen, I love doing Evolve every week, and it's great, and I think the show is tremendous and certainly worth a watch, but obviously, it's different taping for To Be versus going live on the CW tomorrow on. On nxt.

[Don La Greca]

You dropping. Speaking of, though, because. So you'll be in the Garden tonight, right? And tomorrow and tomorrow. What about. Just give us a little flavor about Saturday night, because you had. You. You had the suite. You were hosting, right? The whole thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sure, I was.

[Don La Greca]

How'd that go down? How was the winner?

[Peter Rosenberg]

The winner was great.

[Don La Greca]

So this was UFC at the Garden.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah, we had the contest. I gotta tell you. Listen, you know, every contest is different in radio. Some are better than others. When you see a contest, one of these ones where it's like, go to a game with Peter Rosenberg or Dave Rothenber, whoever it is, I gotta tell you, it's a great win. And, like, the winners were super excited. A hardcore listeners. They, they, they. The gentleman's name. The gentleman's name. Who. I'm forgetting his actual name right now. So. I'm a terrible guy.

[Don La Greca]

Painful.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tim.

[Don La Greca]

Steve.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I really.

[Alan Hahn]

It's any name. Because, really, there's no, There's. There's a gargantuan gap between Tim and Steve. Tim and Terry. Steven Scott, different story.

[Don La Greca]

Hang on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, I got it, I got it. No, it was. It Was Jerry.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, you legitimately.

[Don La Greca]

Did you really just say it was Jerry? Yeah, saying Tim and Steve.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was Jerry and Jerry. No, but Jerry. But Jerry was the listener.

[Don La Greca]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And by the way, when I was saying those other names, Jerry was in my mind. But like I was thinking, I was like, am I just confusing with my friend? Do I call Jerry? No, it was Jerry. Great guy. UPS driver listens every day when I tell you P1. I'll say this. When I went to go grab some Peanut M&MS, he goes, I bet they aren't as good as Steve Hart's nuts.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, wow, he's that dog.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The one thing I miss about having an office is the taste of Steve Hart's nuts. And so a hardcore listener of the show, like, and great guy and his buddy, lovely guy as well, we hung out. We kicked it. Now, he also brought me, Don, do you remember when I had the. The Allen and Ginter baseball card? He brought two copies of the Peter Rosenberg baseball card for me to sign.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, did you get the two? Did you give one to you or.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, no, give one to me of myself. That would be an odd choice. Hey, here's a. Here's your own baseball card. Yeah, it would be strange. Maybe autograph it for myself as well.

[Alan Hahn]

No, but just to give you a copy. I had that happen to me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I have, I have a. I have a nice stash of the cards. Although the one that he had was one of the ones that has like a relic in it, like a piece of my shirt that. Like a. Actually a Redskins jersey. Anyways, I had a revelation in that moment about you guys. Okay, you, in my opinion, Don, have spent years, in my opinion, incorrectly attacking me because on a 3 o' clock in the afternoon, or no 1 o' clock in the afternoon, a midday hit with Don Lemon or whoever it was on cnn. I wore a random jacket and a backwards hat. You always have killed me for that. Like, what an idiot. Why would you wear that? You look like a hack. Meanwhile, I have an Allen and Ginter baseball card, which is pretty cool. Like, it's a classic Topps baseball card with me on it and my bio on the back. And it's limited edition, it's very cool. And I'm wearing. I'm wearing a winter hat in the picture, like a red Scully. Why would I be wearing a winter hat in my baseball card?

[Alan Hahn]

I don't know.

[Don La Greca]

Because you're that guy.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, maybe that's why.

[Don La Greca]

I just think it's simple.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, that's way Worse to me than wearing a hat for a random hit. No one was watching on cnn. Who wears a winter hat on a baseball card? It's a terrible choice.

[Don La Greca]

I know, I know you, you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, save it for Thursday.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, okay.

[Alan Hahn]

Be that guy Thursday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, let's talk to a few people real quick. And then, Alan, we got to talk.

[Don La Greca]

Some Knicks because there's injuries all of a sudden. Not great.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, there's some, there's some trouble and some things to talk about. Let's, let's go to Chris first. Chris, what's going on?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. Don, in the show you talked about how you were like, you wanted the Giants to win yesterday. And of course I get that, but. And your thing has always been you want to see the team moving in the right direction instead of tanking. But in this scenario, it actually makes literally no sense to try and win when you know that they're going to. Or root for root to win when you know they're most likely going to have a new coach, a new voice, a new culture. And these culture wins that we have had in the past, they haven't done anything. How did those Tommy DeVito wins really help us? They, they actually, they actually ruined us because we, we could have got Drake May. We could have had Jaden Daniels. Two top QBs. I know we have Jackson dirt, but he's not nearly as good as those two, I would say.

[Alan Hahn]

And we don't know that we, we don't know how it's all going to turn out. But Kafka. So you, you don't, you don't think Kafka can be a good head coach?

[Caller]

I mean, if you had to put a chance on, what would you.

[Alan Hahn]

I know you said chances aren't great, but like, I don't know what else is out there. And you heard Carl Banks say they're going to give him a legitimate look if they win games. It shows you they were right to fire Dable and that maybe a new voice will help, that it isn't just about a lack of talent, which is another thing they're going to have to come to crossroads with because Joe Shane is still here. He's going to have a hand in picking the next head coach. And just all this losing, what does it end up being? They've already got their quarterback and you've got to change it. So you may not buy into winning, changing the culture and maybe, maybe there will be new people coming in here, but if Kafka can actually get this team to play well, how do I Know he's not the next great head coach. We don't know. We're grasping at straws. Is Mike McCarthy the guy? Is John Harbaugh gonna become available? Is Tomlin gonna become available? All these assistants we've never heard of, are they gonna be great? Just win, man. Show that you can function as an organization. Prove to people that you have talent. Make it an attractive place to come and play.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would agree.

[Alan Hahn]

All these losses over and over again, Peter, for a draft pick, you have no idea what's going to be.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would tend to agree with the caller more if like I absolutely thought Kafka was a complete hack, like there was no chance. But what, what makes him any less likely to turn out to be one of those guys than someone else? So like there are certain coordinators, if he was, if they had a 70 year old coordinator who has been around the league, they were a failed court. They were a coordinator who'd failed as a head coach. One of those guys. I understand where you go. We're not going that direction. But this guy could be that guy. Maybe he, maybe he flourishes in this position.

[Alan Hahn]

But you know, he mentioned Drake May right now Drake May looks like he's phenomenal and he's going to have the Patriots maybe competing for a Super bowl championship. Maybe. We'll see. Because we thought the same thing of Stroud a couple of years ago and now look how that went. So let's see how it all pans out at the end. Isn't it possible, guys? I'm not saying it's likely. Isn't it possible that Jackson Dart might end up being the better quarterback? And if that's the case, well then tanking and you know, losing that game with the veto against Green Bay would have gotten you Drake May. But would that necessarily have worked? Or would Drake Nate may have failed here the way other quarterbacks have failed? Like. All I'm saying is it's a mystery no matter what. Can I just sit there, enjoy my team trying to win a frigging game, for God's sakes.

[Don La Greca]

But I'm trying to figure out what's the goal of losing for a better draft.

[Alan Hahn]

Make for a better draft pick for what though, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Where are they going with that?

[Alan Hahn]

His point is they're probably going to blow the thing up anyway. So why do I want to win a game that might cost me what might be the next great player again?

[Don La Greca]

Of what?

[Alan Hahn]

I don't know.

[Don La Greca]

Because that's the problem. Your needs, your needs right now are not like you don't get those needs in the top five. You're not taking a cornerback in the top five. You're not taking a safety in the top five. A wide receiver. Rarely are they in the top five.

[Alan Hahn]

And I don't think anybody.

[Don La Greca]

You don't want a quarterback. You don't need an edge rusher.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. And if you don't need an offensive.

[Don La Greca]

Do you need a tackle? I don't think you do that.

[Alan Hahn]

Off. What do you need? Play phenomenal yesterday. So, I mean, listen, I understand the logic of trying to give yourself the best options in the draft, but it's such a crapshoot to begin with. And I'm telling you, I don't have any evidence other than talking to players and former players. I'm telling you, losing just corrodes an organization just to lose every single week for this draft pick that you hope is going to be good. Oh, and that draft pick didn't work out. Oh, we'll tank again and lose and lose and lose.

[Don La Greca]

Not for the Giants. No, not for the Giants.

[Alan Hahn]

Why do you think you have a third overall pick falling asleep in meetings and showing up late? Because the atmosphere there is toxic. Why is it toxic? Because all they do over the last three years is lose games. These guys are killing themselves in this sport more than any other, where you literally go out on the field never knowing if you're going to ever step on the field again just to lose every single day. I'm telling you, it just causes too much trouble.

[Don La Greca]

And like that's something too when you're trying, when you have pieces, especially young players that you know you're building forward with, that's the last thing you want them to feel like you. Like you're saying it as a fan. Jackson Dart is disgusted with you as a fan. Because he hates losing.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

So that's not something that you're ever going to have players do. And an interim coach, he's also not going to do it either. But if. If you were the jets and you were desperate for a quarterback and getting at worst a top three pick was critical. So that even if it's not going to be Mendoza, which I don't think it would be, I still think they're trading the pick, by the way. I don't think they're going to make that. I think they're using it to get a veteran co. I think they're trying to wait to see if somebody shakes out. I think that's their first priority. If Darren Muji, you know, was ever given truth serum in a Microphone. But I just feel the jets do have to worry about don't win too much and all that stuff. You know, Aaron Glenn's got to prove that he can actually coach winning the Giants. No, no, I don't think for the Giants, losing is beneficial for them when it comes to the draft. What's beneficial for them is their young players to get better and continue to develop and adding the pieces that you desperately need. I personally don't think you need another rookie wide receiver, by the way. I think you need a vet. Neighbors is young. You need a vet on the other side. You got to balance it out with some experience. They don't have that. You need one of those types of guys. Not, not a, not another rookie. You know, again, a corner, another rookie corner. These are things you got to think about. Look at your team right now. It's a very young roster. Like, don't, don't like. It's just. It's lazy thinking to always fall back to saying that losing and tanking for a high draft pick is better for a franchise. What are you trying to get? Edge rushers, quarterbacks. That's what's at the top of these drafts. And tackles. That's what's always at the top of these drafts. You don't need any of those three things.

[Alan Hahn]

And I just think that, you know, these things don't happen in a vacuum. You lose because you're not good. You want to know that you've got good players on this roster that if coached properly, they can get you into the playoffs and can make a run. But if you end up losing out and go 2 and 15, well, then you got to figure Shane's going to be out the door and you're going to have to reconstruct an entire. And that means you're going to, oh, Drake Bell, or I love my quarterback. I love Jackson Dart, but you're going to root for him to look bad and throw picks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And there's no world in which this season could end with them playing a lot harder and a lot more disciplined and being a better team. That makes you go, hmm, maybe we have a guy in Kafka and maybe we get our quarterback next year, we get Scatterboo back and we're not really restarting next year. Maybe we're actually on the path to something. I mean, I know there are people like Anthony who are sickened by every single aspect of this team, but I think should be. But I unders. But now with a new head coach, whoever that turns out to be, they do have pieces on this team. And culture can change. I mean, the Giants are not the Cleveland Browns. It's not, it's not a completely poisoned culture.

[Don La Greca]

They can get good quick and they have to. And to me, again, if you're, if you're a fan, that's what you're looking for. Is that Abdul Carter stories. That's a bad story. He's not a bad guy. But that's, that's a young player that felt like, I can get away with this and apparently has before. And that's something to me as if, like I would, I wouldn't want my. I don't want my team like this. I don't want a young player to develop bad habits early on. A guy's got a ton of talent, but it really hasn't been able to show it on the field like you. You don't want that. The improvements you're looking for are not your draft pick value right now. The improvements you're looking for are the cult. Like what you guys talking about, the culture and all this stuff that maybe most fans can't relate to, but that's a real thing. You're not winning a damn thing with all the talented players in the world. You're not winning a damn thing if your culture's bad.

[Alan Hahn]

This is, It's a tired argument that started years ago with Michael and Peter jumping on me about. And Daniel Jones threw five touchdown passes against the then Redskins and won the game in overtime. And it cost them Chase Young. And the very next year it was, oh, why did he. Why were you celebrating that win? It meant nothing. It cost you Chase Young. Where's Chase Young now?

[Don La Greca]

Exactly.

[Alan Hahn]

Now where's Daniel Jones now? Right, So I see both sides of it, but in the moment, man, have we gotten so spoiled by all these games, we just throw them away for picks. Ask the Sixers how the process is going. All right. You know, waiting all these years, hoping the jets, all these top picks, remember? Oh, I can't believe they beat the Rams. They could have had Trevor Lawrence.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's Trevor Lawrence?

[Alan Hahn]

He was supposed to be a transcendent talent that walked on water, right? Has he done anything really? The jets would have ruined him like they ruined every other quarterback they've had. Let's win the damn game, for God's sake.

[Don La Greca]

Such a great point you're making, though. It really is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now you can pretty much bet and be sure that if he'd went to the jets, he'd be a dud. Now, speaking of betting, the Vanduv Sportsbook app is your home for all your favorite NFL bets.

[Don La Greca]

I like what you did there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

From yards to touchdowns. Who's going to win with FanDuel? Any play could be the play of the game. Tonight FanDuel is giving all customers a 30% profit boost token. That's right. You can get on the action with a 30% profit boost token this Monday night. So make FanDuel your go to app for any snap. Just visit FanDuel.com Peter to bet on the game, play your game with FanDuel official sports betting partner. The NFL 21 and over. Physically present New York often required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail] for up with a gambling problem, call 8778-Hopeny or text hopeny 467-369.

[Don La Greca]

Let me ask you a question, guys. Okay. I'm going to give you. I'm going to give you the top. The top seven passes completed in the NFL right now. You stop me, I'm going to give you the top 10. Stop me when I get to the guy who was the number one pick in the draft. Ready?

[Mike Kafka]

Okay.

[Don La Greca]

Justin Herbert, Bo Nix, Patrick Mahomes, Drake May, Joe Flacco, believe it or not, Joe Flaggart in that meeting. Dak Prescott.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That was insane, by the way.

[Don La Greca]

Daniel Jones. Here's where it stops. Stafford, Goff and Mayfield. You're talking about the last three of the ten who are veterans.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, the drop the mic moment is that Patrick Mahomes was taken 10th overall. That's the end of the argument. Done.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Stop it.

[Don La Greca]

Drake was third bone. Knicks was like an afterthought. Was sixth.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Jalen Hurts was the second round. Stop it. The two. Two quarterbacks played for the super bowl last year and played before two years ago in the Super Bowl. One was taken 10, the other taken in the second round.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, Russell Wilson, I know he's not good anymore, but many good years of Kirk Cousins, a fourth round pick like you just.

[Don La Greca]

I'm with situation and system, fellas. That's what it is. But we get caught up in the number one pick thing because we don't. I'm telling you, if, if we ever did the math, quarterback number one overall. I gotta believe. Don, would you. Would you go 50? 50 at best.

[Alan Hahn]

At best. 50%.

[Don La Greca]

Meanwhile.

[Alan Hahn]

And the caller doesn't even want a quarterback. Yeah, I'm gonna tank. For what? A safety?

[Don La Greca]

For a safety. Because you don't need an edge. You Got three edge rusher as it is. You got two tackles that are good.

[Alan Hahn]

I argue with caller, you know, you know who's the biggest believer, and this is Rick. That's all Dpietro talks about is tanking. Loves it, eats it up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, listen, but if he hated.

[Don La Greca]

It, I'll tell you what, he's changed his tune because he's, he used to hate it as a playmaker. Well, listen, he hated that idea.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, listen, Rick watches a lot of television, a lot of sports tv. And let's be honest, the reason the draft is a big deal is because we run NFL live 365 days a year. If ESPN and Fox Sports and everybody else doesn't have the draft to talk about, what are you doing in late February, early March? And this is a business. And the business of the NFL never stops. Like baseball is going to quiet down now for a little bit after the winter meetings, thank God. And we'll all, you know, Michael will be able to sleep on his stomach again. Everyone can relax for a moment.

[Alan Hahn]

Right? Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But with football, it never stops. And the draft is the way to sell people. Why do you think I literally get on the radio every year and say, if you are making a trip to a town to go to the draft, you are the biggest loser I've ever met in my life. But there are people there, they believe in it. I never understand how you could be excited about someone who's potentially good and potentially never takes a snap for your team. You never even know what's going to happen. It's wild.

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's.

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[Don La Greca]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don La Greca]

Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don La Greca]

Don gives good VIN.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No?

[Alan Hahn]

You do like to think so.

[Don La Greca]

Oh yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Some of the best VIN I've ever seen, right?

[Don La Greca]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Speaking of vin, let's go to. Let's go to Tessa in West Caldwell. Hey, Tessa.

[Alan Hahn]

Tessa.

[Caller]

Hey guys. Thanks for taking my call. Very calm now because I'm just so numb to, you know, all this boneless and trashness. But I just was kind of freaking out when you guys were talking about Mike. Catherine. Because he was not just around a toxic environment. He was a part of it. He was allowing this vanilla trash bum offense to go on the field.

[Don La Greca]

So that's why.

[Caller]

No, I don't want him because all he will do is listen. I don't care about transitioning. I'm tired of being tested with my loyalty every week. I'm never going anywhere. But I'm tired. I don't care about. Oh, we gotta start all over. No, start all over. That's the thing. We acted so scared all the time to do something new, do something fresh. What we're doing now is not working. Our whole environment's polluted. It's like our whole pool has pee in it or whatever like that. To drain the whole pool and put fresh water in it. So at the end of the day, I don't want cafe. He was part of this toxic environment. He was putting trash on the field.

[Alan Hahn]

You're right.

[Caller]

You got.

[Alan Hahn]

He's part of it. But your. Your head coach was an offensive guy. So it is possible they might have butted heads and Dable1.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what I was.

[Alan Hahn]

Decisions. Right. So I understand you want to get rid of everybody because it's all been toxic. It's all losing. But is it possible that Kafka maybe had had ideas of making the offense better because Dable was an offensive guy, he ended up winning those face offs.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It is possible. That's what I think. Like my disagreement with Tessa. There is. You can't be sure Kafka was. Was in any way complicit in the vanilla offense. He might have not as we. As we can tell. Dable was going for it. Whatever he thought was going to keep him alive, he was going for. I said that right after that first dart win when he nearly Tackled him and committed a felony on his leg. After the game, you could tell how happy he was. He was desperate for any win they could get. There's a chance Dable was saying, like, ah, I got this. Chill out.

[Alan Hahn]

It works in reverse. Like, there's a lot of things surrounding B enemy in Kansas City and why he hasn't been given an opportunity as a head coach. But a lot of it was, well, why am I giving him any credit? Andy Reid's the offensive genius. So whenever your head coach is an offensive guy or a defensive guy, that coordinator never gets any credit. Right. Because it's all because of the head coach. Now, Tessa might be 100% right, but I'm willing to give these now six games a shot to see what he can do. And I didn't hate what I saw on Sunday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, let's keep it moving and go to Jimmy in Connecticut. Hey, Jimmy.

[Caller]

Hey, what's going on, guys? Listen, I want to chime in on that tanking conversation. I'm first of all, Lee with. I'm totally with you, Don. Tanking is not. I do not agree with tanking. And another reason why the. I didn't hear mentioned was if you think about players themselves are never going to try to lose games because they're all on film. They're all trying to play for their next contract. So they are not going to buy into trying to lose.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Caller]

What management may do is try to put a team on the field that can't win. But if, if management and players aren't seeing eye to eye, isn't that in a way, the definition of dysfunction, won't that just make the dysfunction continue?

[Don La Greca]

Excellent.

[Caller]

So, yeah, So I think, I just think being relevant, just look. And if you look competitive in games and free agency comes up, maybe some, some of them will say, okay, there's something going there. Maybe I will want to sign there. I just feel like tanking every year. And like you said, we don't even need anybody that's projected to be at the top of the draft right now. But tanking is just a sign of dysfunction and not a disconnect between management and the team.

[Alan Hahn]

If it's the last game of the season and there's a huge quarterback available and you need a quarterback, I can understand you being upset that you won that game. Okay? I'm not stupid. But sitting here just hoping your team, the jets or the Giants, just lose out for the better draft pick, I mean, what are we doing, man? And then you know what? These sadists, they'll do is watch the game. But if you just said, you know what, to lose every game, I'm not even bother turning it on. All right, that kind of makes sense to me. But they'll still be sitting there and they'll be the first people to be on hold and complain and rip the players that screwed the game up that they lost.

[Don La Greca]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Mike in Staten island, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, how are you? Pleasure to speak to you and thanks for taking the call. I wanted to take a different approach on. Kind of disagree with Don here. The reason, the reason I say tanking, especially this year. Now, the Giants have already established that they have their quarterback, which is excellent, we hope. Now, I'm looking at the standings and I see Arizona and Vegas and New Orleans, and if the giants are picking one and there's teams that are picking five, six, seven, eight, nine. I've seen the history. Trey, Lance, RG3. Peter, you could tell me about that. These teams gave up massive balls to get that number one pick.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I. I don't know. I think they'll do that for Mendoza Allen.

[Don La Greca]

That. That's the thing. No, no. What? The caller has the right idea in the wrong draft here. That's. There's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I think he's saying that it's a failed plan.

[Don La Greca]

No, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He gave those that don't work. Didn't work.

[Don La Greca]

Well, he. He is doing that, but he's also pointing out the fact that there are players who don't come in with the hype of the. This is a generational talent and yet the 49ers still gave up something to move up. And that is true. The higher draft pick does yield. And this is what I say about the Jets. I don't think the jets are making the pick, but I think the high pick might get them some value. The idea is the higher the value of the pick, the more you can do with it. And then you'll get back more picks, which helps you fill holes. So you might not want to make a pick in the top three, but you could trade that pick for multiple picks to help you fill other spots on your roster.

[Alan Hahn]

But here's the scary thing. We all know Baker Mayfield proved this. The real moving comes after the season is over. All right, so what kind of pro day is he going to have? What kind of combine is he going to have? What if Mendoza completely slips up? What if he gets hurt? Mel Kuiper's been on saying that he thinks all the other quarterbacks might stay in school.

[Don La Greca]

I know, right?

[Alan Hahn]

So I don't know, I can't guarantee that somebody's going to give you like three first round picks to move up to number one.

[Don La Greca]

And I don't think anybody's doing it for an edge rusher in this draft, right? Oh, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

So they'll be the one. This is not the draft to have this conversation. Even though there are general managers that are out of their mind, this still is too weak a draft to really count on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Don La Greca]

It doesn't feel like that kind of draft.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Before Don leaves us, Drake has been on hold in Poughkeepsie for a long time. Hey, Drake. Say Drake.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Hey, guys.

[Caller]

I wanted to talk about the hockey fight at the Garden last night, and I'm actually going to Detroit for a wrestling show on Friday, and I was wondering if I should wear my Rangers jersey to jump the barrier.

[Don La Greca]

You know, do it, do it. Show me something. Yeah.

[Caller]

Did you actually think that they were being disrespectful, the Runaways? Or was it much to do about nothing.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, this is coming from a guy that is a huge Jonathan Quick fan. I think he's fabulous. He's a great, great person. He was obviously frustrated with the loss. That shot came just as the buzzer happened. I don't get it. And none of his team thought anything of it. I think he was just frustrated by the loss. Even afterward. Allen, he was saying he was two seconds after. No, it wasn't. It was just as the horn sound. He was wanting to take the shot. I, I, I just think it was frustration. So I'll give Quick the benefit of the doubt. I don't think Detroit did anything wrong there.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. And I thought J.T. miller said it best when he said the bigger issue was the 60 minutes before exactly that moment. That's when you should have showed a little more fight. They did not really something about them. I don't know what it is at home, but like that. That, Yeah, I, but I like that. I know, Don. It means nothing.

[Alan Hahn]

It does mean.

[Don La Greca]

But it can mean something. Well, hopefully, because sometimes those moments are unifiers right. Sometimes they can be. It's like a baseball brawl when all of a sudden the team just gets a little momentum. Sometimes that can help. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the.

[Don La Greca]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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