A (2:53)

The problem that everybody's doing is that. Because the talk is that they think he could play first base, which he's never played at the major league level, that his offensive production, like, how do you. How do you replace that at first base when that's what Alonzo gave you? And it's like, that's not. You're missing the point. His numbers, if you look at them when he's healthy, is Nimmo right. But he's. He is a better defender as an infield defender. Although with that knee, I'm sure they don't want him playing short. They don't want him playing second. They don't. They don't want him having to move and maneuver. That they're thinking he can cover ground at first and that it's like. I mean, they take catchers and make them play first. They take DH's.

B (3:38)

Oh, yeah.

A (3:38)

It's not like first.

B (3:39)

It always worked. Didn't work for Mike Piazza. No.

A (3:41)

But I'm saying. But they. They have, yes, used first base as a place to put people who aren't plus defenders. And they're trying to get somebody that can do it.

B (3:49)

And plus.

A (3:50)

And they think they can switch headers. That's what. Right. And that. Well, that's the other part is the offense, I think, speaks for itself. The concern is the defense, but I think people were making the wrong parallel. This is the guy replacing Alonso. No, not an offense. They still haven't gotten the guy to replace Alonzo. You need somebody that's going to protect Soto in the lineup. Now, I don't know if it's Bellinger, to be honest with you. I don't know if Bellinger is that guy. Although Bellinger did hit behind Judge.

B (4:21)

Right.

A (4:21)

And so he's already kind of done the protect the batter kind of. He's a very selective hitter. His numbers are very good. And he's a plus defender. So you have to see what happens with Bellinger. The tattoo stuff. Smoke, there's fire. So keep an eye on that. There are other ways that you can replace Alonzo's offense, but Polanco is not that. That's not what they're doing here. They're doing a short term fix in an area where they, they know they're going to need somebody there. That's all it is. This isn't a finished product.

B (4:54)

No, it's not a finished product.

A (4:55)

Why am I defending David Stearns?

B (4:57)

I feel like because the fans are going nuts because they think this is going to be the opening day roster and. No, now you talk about smoke. There's fire. Just continuing rumors around the Mets and the Padres.

A (5:08)

Yep.

B (5:09)

Now who's coming back? Apparently they really want their closer, Mason Miller. Mason Miller?

A (5:17)

Yeah.

B (5:18)

Now if that. If. So they're going after Mason Miller.

A (5:21)

Yeah.

B (5:22)

They signed Devin Williams when they, when they got him. He's our closer. Devin Williams said. They told me that he's the closer.

A (5:30)

Yeah.

B (5:31)

Now you're hearing rumors that they want Mason Miller, which tells you that maybe there is room for a pivot and he's better than Diaz at this stage of his career does. Is it? And maybe the Mets think, all right, to get one of the best closers in baseball, I'm going to have to give up something. And I've always felt like Lindor was expendable to the Mets but not someone they can move because of the contract. So now we're back to that same old song and dance. Do you take Bogarts? That would be to be able to get Miller. He becomes your shortstop around the same age, a little bit cheaper, not the same player. But you've improved it there and. But no, you don't feel good about that.

A (6:14)

No.

B (6:15)

Unless. Unless. Unless there really is something that they're concerned about between Lindor and Soto and there's an issue there where they feel like they've got a moveland door. If that's the case, you know how devastating that is. I mean, you bring in Soto and now he's going to be dictating one of your stars has to go because he's not getting along with Lindor and now I've got to devalue myself at shortstop. Now if you're telling me I get Tatis Jr. Well, now we're talking and maybe we've actually improved ourselves.

A (6:42)

Oh yeah.

B (6:42)

And I can live with Bogarts and you got your shortstop. But if you're telling me that I'm going to get Mason, Miller and Bogarts for Lindor. And the reason is because he doesn't get along. Juan Soto, that's not good.

A (6:54)

Do you remember the story that came out about Soto when they were talking about signing him and they talked about the lineup and his concern about the lineup? That was one of the things. I think it was a passing story, whoever wrote the big story that gave you the whole breakdown of all the things that went down. And it was that Soto had concerns about the lineup, which is what prompted them to then sign Alonzo because they didn't have another protect him in the lineup back. And so you could tell that Soto, he might not be like a big voice guy in the locker room. He might be a guy that sort of keeps to himself, but he definitely is aware of everything around him and everything that involves him being at his best. And I. Who's to say that he doesn't have a say? Like, you got to believe that there's got to be something to making sure that they just gave this guy a massive contract and a long term commitment. And if you don't think. I would argue that. I think Soto knew more about the Alonzo and knew more about Nimmo than Mendoza. Mendoza sounded like he had no idea Alonzo was gone. Like Mendoza found. Sounded like he had no idea that they were going to lose the players they lost, that he wasn't in on it.

B (8:07)

That's.

A (8:07)

If I was Mendoza, I'd be a little worried that I'm cut out.

B (8:10)

And that's a Stearns problem. That's a Cohen problem more than it is a Soto problem. Because just like Judge with the Yankees, when you commit that kind of money in term to a player, he becomes a part of the process. He just does. Yep. He's got 14 years left on his contract. You're gonna run things by Juan Soto. I'm not saying he becomes a general manager, but you run things past Judge. Right. You just have to. He's part of the process now. So if you're David Stearns and you find out that Soto and Lindor don't get along with each other and it's an issue.

A (8:40)

Soto doesn't love him.

B (8:42)

Who's gonna lose the face off? Lindor is gonna lose the face off. Plus you get rid of a big contract. So there are benefits to it. But I don't want that to be the sole purpose. If I can get Tatis Jr. From San Diego, I'm good, I could do that. But if it's strict, Lindor to San Diego for Bogarts and Miller, as much as it improves their closer situation, the.

A (9:04)

Back end of the bullpen would get really good, which was a major problem. But what it also like to me, isn't it funny how a year ago there was this sense of this big victory of landing Juan Soto and what it would mean for the Mets and did you that you had no idea that a year later Juan Soto would be the reason why the core that you were in love with is no longer there? Yeah, because he came in, spent a year and went, these guys aren't winners. We got to do better.

B (9:34)

And you know, Lindor is coming off a tough year defensively and we know how important run prevention is.

A (9:38)

He's not getting younger now.

B (9:40)

I don't know that Bogarts is that much better a defender than Lindor. He at the stages of their career physically.

A (9:45)

Can he be. Can he stay health?

B (9:46)

Yeah, so. But, you know, if they think Miller's the guy and then you've got. That's a pretty good 8, 9 combination of Williams and Miller. Yeah, but.

A (9:55)

And they could say that with Devin Williams, if you have a previous relationship, you can say you're a closer for now. Now we might do some other things. It would make you the setup guy. And Devin Williams was still happy enough to say, I'll come.

B (10:07)

Right.

A (10:07)

Because if the, if, if it doesn't work out, when they can't make a deal for Mason Miller, then you are a closer. So I don't think they lied to him. I think they kind of just like, that's how we're going to sell it as this. Because we don't know. Because if they went like, well, we'll see how it goes. If you're the Padres, you're like, well, now you're stuck. Like, you know, so you don't ever.

B (10:25)

Want to reveal all your cards. If I have a chance to improve, I am going to try to improve, and that would be an improvement.

A (10:32)

How big of a concern is it for you? If. If it's because. If it starts to feel like Juan Soto's fingerprints are all over a lot of these moves to reconstruct the clubhouse. How much does that bother you as a fan?

B (10:47)

It will. It bothers me because I don't want players to dictate because I don't think players make for good general managers. And that's what they're kind of becoming is like, yeah, I don't like Stern's.

A (10:59)

The type that's going to just take orders from a player. I think you're going to lean on. You're going to listen to his input. And maybe if it matches what you feel you might have said, I didn't like the clubhouse. I didn't like the vibe. That player's numbers are declining. And so now Juan Soto doesn't like him either. All right, that's the last. That's the last box I need to get.

B (11:15)

See, that's the way it is. Like, if I'm leaning towards this and then Juan Soto says, yeah, I think that's a good idea, well, then I'm going to do it. Yeah. If Juan Soto's making demands, I have a problem with that. If Juan Soto's not saying anything and the Mets are so scared of him, they're like, we've got to do something, otherwise he's going to speak up. I wouldn't like that either. I want, you know, part of the process is one thing, dictating direction is quite the other.

A (11:37)

I don't think he's doing that. I do think it has to do with whatever sense they were getting from him and the idea of building. Look, first of all, if you have him now and you have him for as long as you have him, aren't you trying to build a lineup around him?

B (11:49)

Yes, you are.

A (11:50)

All right, so then you're trying to find the pieces that fit best or.

B (11:53)

Maybe is it just. Hey, there's. There's truth that there was. There was a lack of chemistry in.

A (11:59)

That clubhouse, which we saw all season.

B (12:00)

We saw it. We saw a collapse in the second half. We've seen this team not be able to piece together a full season. Right. They make the run two years ago because of a great second half. You know, but a lot of these guys were a part of the team that blew it in the second half in 22, you know, blew it in the second half this year.

A (12:15)

Epically blew it this year.

B (12:17)

And so, hey, I need to change the construction. And what have we always said leading into before Juan Soto was here, the leader of this team was Lindor. As much as Alonzo was a great player and everybody loved him and he was a fan favorite, the leader was Lindor.

A (12:29)

Yeah.

B (12:29)

And if you've got problems with the clubhouse, then you have to have a problem with the leader.

A (12:33)

Right.

B (12:34)

And so if Lindor ends up getting traded, I'd like to err on the side of maybe they know a little bit more than we do. Maybe it's just not about the numbers or run prevention is that something's going on in that room. I. If I'm if I'm David Stearns, I didn't trade for Lindor. I didn't give Lindor a 10 year contract. I think I could do better at shortstop just like I think I could do better at first and I could do better at center. Now the fans are going to flip out because we don't know what the pivot is. Obviously if they get Bogarts back, I know who the shortstop is.

A (13:02)

Yeah.

B (13:02)

And you mentioned the fact that you know Polanco can play short. So if Bogarts did get hurt, we have a shortstop that can play even.

A (13:09)

Though his knees a little wonky. Yeah.

B (13:12)

You know, so you're starting to see at least the foundation of what it might look like. But I still think it's going to take a little time. But they've said you'll see it on opening day. So let's see what the rest of this winter is going to present.

A (13:27)

Keep in mind, Sue Blanco had some huge hits for the Mariners in their run. Right. He came up big in the postseason. Now, did he have big regular season numbers?

B (13:35)

No.

A (13:36)

But you kind of like the players that when, when it means the most, they play their best. Keep that in mind. Right. Like I think that's important. Another guy also just like Simeon, that is this clubhouse. Like he's not a big voice but a well liked, well, respect, like, like, you know, guys, you know, like not going to cause trouble. More or less a unifier, good personality type of person. I do think there is more of a drive to do that, which feels like they're trying to turn the soil over in that clubhouse. Clearly that's they're trying to do. And I'll say it again, if I'm Mendoza, I'm a little concerned because this happened under your watch that this, all this all fell apart under your watch. Which tells me you might be a little too soft with your players. You might not have a good feel for the room and you might have one more year and I might need to get another manager if, if I don't feel like everybody's, you're the right guy. As much as that was an epic collapse.

B (14:33)

Don, as much as we all love these no answers, it's not leading to anything just yet, you know. So yeah, I hated to see Alonzo go. I would hate to see Lindor go. I like those players, but they haven't won anything. And I'd like to see does he think he could do better. And like I said, I keep saying it until the day it happens. If it doesn't work, I'll be the first one there online to rip.

A (14:56)

Oh, absolutely.

B (14:57)

But let's see what this looks like. And we don't even know if there's anything, but something seemed to be brewing between the Mets and the Padres, and it's probably something to keep an eye on. We had a caller, was on hold. We lost him. I'm not sure why. About. Soto had issues in San Diego. The issues in San Diego were Machado.

A (15:13)

Apparently it was Machado and Tatis.

B (15:15)

So there's history with him.

A (15:16)

Tatis was very immature, did a lot of things. Me first. Did a lot of things that were, you know, central for himself. And Machado didn't like it, and they called him out.

B (15:25)

You know, Michael brought this up because Michael's done a lot of work with. So a lot of Met fans didn't like it. But, you know, he. Michael's connected. And he was the one that said about Soto being grumpy, whatever the word that he used. But one of the things that Michael said that I think is very true. Soto's all about business. He's all about baseball. Okay.

A (15:44)

It's true.

B (15:45)

And you can make the case that there was a lot of things going on that might not have been about baseball with the Mets, and they kind of have a history of that a little bit, so. And that's. You know, the Yankees are always very buttoned up. Maybe he likes that. And maybe he's like, maybe the reason he's not getting along with players is something that Stearns may look and say, I'm on the same wavelength.

A (16:04)

I need you to be.

B (16:04)

Well, he doesn't like. I don't like either, because there's a lot of goofing around. There's a lot of things that aren't working, and you guys haven't won anything that. So we get down to it, you're not winning. You collapsed. You haven't been able to put a full season together. Maybe that's one of the reasons why.

A (16:19)

Yeah.

B (16:19)

And we're not talking about Bronies in this clubhouse. Yeah, exactly.

A (16:22)

You know what I mean? Like. Like, I want guys that are about it. Like, I want you to be baseball nerds. It's all you care about, it's all you want to do and that. All this other stuff, like, but, you know, we can have fun, but it's more fun to win than anything else. If you had a choice, a lot of Mets fans, and I'm curious how this would be answered if you had a choice to go back in time, do you want the core of your Team to stay together or do you want Juan Soto? You can't have both. Which one would you want?

B (16:50)

Well, I mean, I fresn Met fan.

A (16:52)

So he doesn't sign with you last year. Everybody stays. Is that what you want?

B (16:56)

I want to build a team around Juan Soto. I mean, I like the core, but what have they won now? You could say, well, what does Solo want? Well, he won a World Series as a kid. He went to a World Series the year before. He came to the Mets as a key piece. All right, so. And he's one of the best players in baseball, and he is the best player on the Mets. So when you want to. If you're. I'm not saying it's a rebuild, but if you're retooling, reimagining the Mets, you'd want to do it around Juan Soto.

A (17:20)

With a very young player.

B (17:21)

Bunch of guys that, that have been nice, they've been good at times, great, but haven't done anything.

A (17:27)

All right, so if again, I give you the hot tub time machine and you could go back and Soto stays with the Yankees, you never get them. And your core that now is breaking up, doesn't get broken up, and instead everybody just gets signed and everybody stays. You'd rather. Would you rather undo it or not? Because you can't have both. Which one would you want?

B (17:48)

I would go with.

A (17:48)

You would go with, give me Soto.

B (17:49)

And let me rebuild again. They haven't. Those guys haven't. They could say, well, Soto didn't win here either.

A (17:54)

Do you think Met fans would agree with you?

B (17:57)

Well, based on how they've reacted, I don't think so, but climb aboard. 1-800-919-3776. We got a full show till 7:00'. Clock. Jimmy is in Montclair. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Jimmy? Hey, how are you guys? Good, good, good. Hey, two. Two quick things. One with the Mets and Soto and one as a double season ticket holder. So with Soto, there was an inter. And I completely forgot the name of the media outlet that he did it for, but it was in Spanish and he had mentioned that he knew about Alonso not coming back before anyone did. So now that Han had mentioned about maybe him having some control about this team, it really does make me wonder, like, how much pull does he have? Is he going to do a Aaron Rodgers on us or what's going on? No, the second thing. Go ahead with the second thing.

A (18:52)

Sorry.

B (18:52)

Okay. The second thing is Don as a double season ticket holder for a while who do we have to keep in that now? Because it's like Markstrom can't stay healthy. Allen, he has his games here and there. And I mean, Pesci's back, Hughes is back. But still, you know, it's a problem, a roller coaster. Well, I'll answer that in a second.

A (19:11)

Can I give you the outlet? I can give you the quote. Oh, yeah, Because I know exactly what you're talking about. So. Yes, it was a Spanish TV station and his interview, he said, quote, before the news came out, we already knew what was going to happen. Like I said, I always keep in contact with the team. End quote.

B (19:30)

Yeah, that's pretty.

A (19:31)

That's pretty telling.

B (19:32)

Well, but also, he signed with the Mets and he was concerned about his protection in the lineup. So before he signed with the Mets, I'm sure he or his agent said, what's the plan with Pete Alonso? He's a free agent. Are you bringing him back?

A (19:47)

Who's his agent?

B (19:48)

Scott Boris.

A (19:49)

Who's Pete Alonso's agent?

B (19:50)

Scott Boris.

A (19:50)

Okay.

B (19:51)

All right. So they know. Everyone knew the contract they gave Alonzo with the. Yeah, they knew he was going to opt out, that this was a temporary fix and that he was probably gone. It didn't. You don't have to be Zoltar to figure out.

A (20:08)

Good reference.

B (20:09)

Strange poll that Alonzo was going to be gone. So for him. So it's not like he had any inside information. I think he wanted to know what's the plan with Alonzo. And it's like, listen, he's got a year, but he's most likely going to opt out. And if he opts out, he's not coming back. That's something I'd want to know before I signed. So he probably knew when he signed here he only had Alonzo for one year, and they probably told him, listen, we have take a look at some of the players. They're going to be available in the winter of 25. We're going to replace them and we're going to be a better team.

A (20:37)

Yeah. And I think.

B (20:38)

Let's see.

A (20:39)

Yeah. And it's in Boris interest as well.

B (20:40)

And for people that wonder if there's a plan, if Soto knew that, that Alonzo was going to be gone, he still signed here. Now, you could say it was all about the money and yes, certainly was. But also he talked about wanting the protection and leaving Judge. He must have had some assurances that they were going to do everything they can to get him a quality baseball team beyond that first year with the Mets.

A (21:07)

Very Interesting. Has this become his team? He's very dialed in.

B (21:11)

It's his team.

A (21:11)

Clear.

B (21:12)

It became his team when they give him 15 years.

A (21:14)

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

B (21:15)

All right.

A (21:16)

Yeah. You have a problem with it again, you do you like? I want. I'd rather have the player who's locked in for 15 years, who's also locked in on my team, doesn't go into the offseason, disappears and says, well, that's not my job, that's his job. Whatever they do. No, I want the guy that's like, like what's the list of players who we get that tells me that he's invested. I kind of like that.

B (21:37)

And as far as the devil won. Listen, they. Right now, if you take a look at the way things have gone, you know, Markstrom is the number one part of his.

A (21:46)

What's Markey's contract?

B (21:46)

Well, they just gave him a two year contract. Six a year. So a two year. So he's. So there's the perception that he's the number one because he's making the most money and they brought him back and they gave him a contract.

A (21:56)

Well, they acquired him to be the number one.

B (21:57)

But you know, I think it's still very fluid. I mean, Allen's played well at times and there's been times, you know, that game against Tampa, you know, Markstrom got pulled giving up three goals on seven shots. You know, they still scored five more against Allen. I think it's very fluid. Listen, Sheldon Keefe wants to win games. I remember talking to the beginning of the season. We live in a world in the NHL where your backups playing north of 25 games anyway. Your backup is going to probably play 30 or more games because the analytics tell you what Sheldon explained that in the NHL if you're starter plays more than like 65% of the games, that's not good.

A (22:37)

Wasn't that Brodor though?

B (22:38)

Brodor used to play.

A (22:39)

He never sat out, ever.

B (22:40)

He played. The backup would play like five games. So.

A (22:43)

Seriously.

B (22:43)

No, take a look at some of the starts and Grant Fuhrer, I mean Grant Fuhrer, one year play, I think 79. Yeah, that was crazy world. But they, if you, you, they don't want you playing more than like 60, 65% of the game. So your backup is going to play a lot. Yeah. And if your backup's better, your backup then becomes the number one. I don't think that they're completely sold on. Well, it's got to be, it's got to be Markey. That's the starting Goaltender. If Allen starts to play well, it's whoever's hot, it's of course, yeah, but even hot. Like, there'd be times like, Brodor needs a rest, man. He's played like 20 straight games. And then he'd go out and shut the Sabers. I was like, well, you got to bring him back. He just made 25 saves and shut the Sabers out. Like, that doesn't happen.

A (23:19)

It's true.

B (23:20)

So they're both going to play.

A (23:21)

Wasn't Henrik like that, too? Henrik never wanted to sit out.

B (23:24)

Henrik didn't want to sit out.

A (23:25)

Never wanted to sit.

B (23:26)

But. But here. Here's the money line for. From Keith, the head coach of the Devils the other day. He's like, good or bad, don't focus on the performance of the goaltender. It's all predicated on how they play in front of him. Allen won the other night because the Devils played great against the Ducks and they won. He said, we played terrible against Tampa. Both goaltenders looked awful. He says there are times a goaltender can steal a game, and there are times that a goaltender loses you a game. But for the most part, what. What the. What happened with the goaltender is what happened in front of him. And right now the team's not playing well in front of him. Neither of these goaltenders have looked particularly good because you lost Pesci, you lost Hughes. Now you've played the last couple of games without Meyer. Now they put Nemetz on. Not long term. They put them on IR and they're not playing particularly well. So everybody focuses on the goaltender. I thought it was interesting, the defense of the goaltender.

A (24:20)

You could say it about the Rangers, too, though, right? Because we know Shusturkin is one of the best in the league. But there are times he looks awful, and you look how. You see how frustrated he looks at times. It's not. I don't think he's frustrated himself. I think he's frustrated in what he sees in front of him.

B (24:35)

And, you know, no better example of. Sometimes it's how you play in front of you. Because he gave up like four goals on 12 shots against Montreal. The Rangers played out of the mind, came back from three nothing down and four, two down to win the game. So it's not always about how your goaltender plays. It shouldn't be always about how your goaltender plays. So I thought that was interesting in defense of the goalies, that maybe the rest of the team has got to play better as well. 1-800-9193776 Allen asked if you're a Met fan. You want to go back in time, not sign Juan Soto and keep everybody. Or do you like what this has developed if Soto ends up being maybe the last man standing on that on the team from last year?

A (25:15)

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A (25:33)

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A (28:16)

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

B (28:20)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

A (28:21)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

B (28:28)

Joe Shane continuing to dig his own grave. Young Hook who has been waived by Giants.

A (28:34)

So yeah, well, another kicker.

B (28:36)

You missed two field goals. Listen, the games don't mean anything. You missed two more field goals. I actually I was doing the, I was. I text you guys on the thread. I'm doing the Devil game. So during the intermissions I'm checking the score.

A (28:50)

Yeah.

B (28:51)

And I see that he missed two field goals. And so I text the thread like did he at least make contact with the ball? And we got to that point, you.

A (28:58)

Know, did hit the ball.

B (28:59)

He didn't hit it.

A (28:59)

Well, it's amazing because Dable was, was using who was the kid. Remember he. Because they had KU in Mac and Natty and then they had the, the Irish kid, the international one because he doesn't count towards the roster spot. And they brought him in and Davo used him instead and he was terrible. And so like if I was Joe Shane, I'd been like, I got you kickers. Guys had experience, you're not using them. And Davel's probably like because I've seen him. He sucks too because apparently Kuz lost it. There was a time though where with Atlanta, he was good.

B (29:29)

Well the other problem from that, from.

A (29:32)

That game and again great roster management.

B (29:35)

Was that Jamie Gillen wasn't, wasn't playing because on that horrible play that everybody laughed at, Jamie Gillen actually hurt his knee, so he was out. Then Gunnar Ol Shefsky.

A (29:45)

We saw what happened to him in the Patriot game.

B (29:47)

He's still on another planet.

A (29:48)

Yeah. So he had a concussion. They didn't know if he was going to be able to clear.

B (29:51)

Now. He didn't clear concussion protocol. Did they bring up anybody that could not only return punts, but also hold.

A (29:57)

Because the backup to Gillen as the holder was Olchewski? No, it was the backup punter that had to hold.

B (30:04)

So I think even though KU got waved and didn't do well, he kept looking down on these kicks. Like, was that held in the right place? So once again, another great special team effort by the Giants.

A (30:15)

Defend, Joe. I can't defend.

B (30:16)

No, I can't defend him.

A (30:17)

This is indefensible.

B (30:18)

But the scary thing is he's now the cow in me, myself and Irene. If you remember that Jim Carrey movie where Renee Zellweger where there's a cow on the road got hit by something. He's like, oh, we got to do something. And the cow moves. And so Jim Carrey proceeds to put, like, 10 bullets in the cow's head, and the cow just won't die. And then finally, he sticks his fingers in the cow's nose, and you hear a gurgling sound. Then it dies. Then later on in the movie, you find out, oh, and he shot at a prize cow. That cow might not survive. Like, the cow's still alive.

A (30:57)

Or.

B (30:57)

If you want more movie analogies, I'll give them to you because this is the only entertaining thing about the Giants, okay? He's the clown in Billy Madison. Oh, boy, that falls off the stilts and blood's coming out of its mouth. And later on in the movie, he's like, I. You thought I was dead. That's Joe Shane. Because the problem for us, they want everybody to just clean house like a big broom, just sweep it out, is that. And I have to tread lightly here, because we're talking about a man and his life. The thing that kind of scares me is what shape is John Mara in with his cancer? That Joe Shane might be the decision maker because there's nobody else to do it. And as John is fighting with cancer battle, and we hope he wins it, and that should be his sole focus because what good's a football team if you're not alive? But at the same time, like, is Joe Shane gonna keep his job because there's nobody else there to let him go?

A (31:54)

I don't. I doubt.

B (31:55)

I.

A (31:55)

Like, we do know obviously there's other members of the family that are still involved in the team. And we do know of course that Tish is, you know, not a football, he's not a football guy. But it doesn't mean, you know, he's got money invested in this and so does some other people. As we know, even though it's not a majority, it's still people of, you know, significance. So is it, do they have to get their heads together and work together and say, well let's get some help to hire the right person.

B (32:20)

But here's the issue. And again, all we know is he's fighting a cancer battle. We don't know how bad it is. We do know he's undergone treatment. We've heard from Jordan ran on that he has been traveling road games, which is very disturbing because he always travels that there's an issue. But I'm sure the Giants don't want the world to know about these. You start bringing in other football people, what kind of message is that gonna send? That maybe John is in a lot of trouble. Right. So you're trying to be sensitive to his situation, but how much of where this organization is going moving forward is contingent on his cancer battle. And you want to be sensitive to it, but at the same time fans want to see that the team's moving in the right direction. As much as you want John to be better, can both things happen? Can he be better and the team be run the right way? And that's why I wonder, is Joe Shane in the position that he's in? Because he's the football guy. He is the guy that's going to handle this. John trusts him. But you're not winning games. You haven't won a game since you let Dable go. It's, it's bad and it's getting worse. And now and the one game they will win is against the Raiders and nobody wants to see them win that because it'll knock them out of the first overall pick. So really bad stuff. But I saw Kuga let go and I'm like, I've never seen a team struggle to find a damn kicker. It's unreal.

A (33:41)

They've accumulated enough talent to still be.

B (33:44)

A two win team in his in Joe Shane's fourth year.

A (33:46)

I don't care how much talent they have, I don't care how bad the coaches.

B (33:48)

You should be able to walk into.

A (33:50)

Some of these games.

B (33:51)

You can't be, you can't. Double digit leads done in most of these. But at the end of the day, you're 2 and 12 again. It's not about collecting talent. It's about winning. I don't need a poster of all the Pro Bowlers the giants have in 20, 25. What I want to see are wins.

A (34:04)

Okay? So you need. And this is where, if anything, if you're. If John Marist situation is the way you're describing, more than ever, you need a one voice guy. More than ever, you need what? Tom Coughlin was right. More than ever, that's what you need, is that guy that is experienced, that knows how to take control and get you organized. I got it. Don't worry about it. You get healthy. I got this. I know what we need. I'll set this up. I have all the experience in the world. I'm gonna bring in people with me who know how to do the job, and we're gonna get this done. And that, you know, for better or for worse, might be Mike McCarthy.

B (34:45)

Yeah.

A (34:46)

For better or for worse, that's what gotta be.

B (34:48)

They've gotta get this hire. So. Right. It's unreal. It's unreal how much they've got right now.

A (34:52)

Yeah, it's desperate.

B (34:53)

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A (35:36)

I get it. We weren't saying it was. We were talking about the original speculation.

B (35:40)

The original speculation. The deal was Lindor for Bogarts and Miller.

A (35:45)

Right.

B (35:46)

But everything since then. But we'll. We'll see how it. But give us something, for God's sakes. We're left to speculate because there's like, literally nothing happening on the baseball front. Let's go to Mike in Brooklyn. You're on espn. New York, you guys are absolutely killing me with this conversation because you keep talking about the Mets collapsing and they need to make changes. And you're trying to make sense of a thing that doesn't make sense. I watched every one of those games. Alonzo and Nimmo, who had great seasons, are not the reasons the Mets collapsed. Their starting pitching is the reason they collapsed.

A (36:20)

That's right.

B (36:21)

And they've done nothing to address the starting pitching. That's right.

A (36:24)

That's absolutely correct. But we're not saying that. We're not saying that they were the reasons why the team collapsed. We're saying Juan Soto has clearly a connection to what's going on. He just said that I. I am contact with the team all the time, and he knew this was happening. I'm talking about how they want to rebuild around Juan Soto. That's what they want to do. Clearly, that's what's happening here. So I'm not saying those guys are to blame. What I'm saying is this was an epic collapse. I said it was Mendoza that should be worried because you've always. You're overseeing this.

B (36:56)

But, Mike, what I'm at least saying is, is that nobody is saying that you. That Pete Alonso is a bad player. It's just that he was movable because his contract was up like Nemo was movable because they found a trade partner. They wanted to change what they can change. Listen, they would love to trade Senga tomorrow. Will anybody take that contract? And they've got three kids that they think are gonna be really good in this one they know is good. And I still think they can be on King. I still think that Scrubal is somebody they might end up trading for at the end of the day. So I want to see you're right about the pitching. So, no, I don't think anybody. Mike. And if it came across that way, I apologize that you're never going to win with guys like Nimmo and Alonzo like they haven't done. So let's. Let's not freak out that they're gone, but move what you can move.

A (37:44)

Now, Mike, let me ask you the question I asked earlier, because I'd love to get your opinion if you could go back in time and it's Soto doesn't come to the Mets and you keep the core as is and move forward, or you have Soto and now that feels like the franchise is trying to rework itself around him. Which. Which way do you want to go? Because I don't think you can.

B (38:07)

No, I understand what you're saying. I'm gonna answer the question differently than a lot of people because I'm a very emotional Fan.

A (38:15)

Okay.

B (38:16)

And you know, one of the things, one of the things that I do is I text back and forth with my 75 year old mother during the games. It's like, you know, it's a thing that, it's a connection for us.

A (38:28)

I can relate.

B (38:28)

And she's devastated. She's devastated. She texted me last week and said she's not sure if she wants to watch the game. So for me, it's unquestionable. I would keep the core and keep working to try to win with that core because. Because I love those players and I want to win with them and because I'm a Mets fan and not a Yankees fan. And I don't mean this as a dig Allen. I don't expect to win a championship every season and I don't find it to be a failure when we don't. I have a lot of fun when the Mets are competitive. I would love for them to win a championship, but only one team gets to do that. I understand, but I've been waiting since 86. And the thing with this core, Mike, yeah, they went to game six of the league championship series, but they were awful in the first half of that year. They needed a miracle run. They followed it up with an 83 win season. You know, and, and you go back to the, in 22, they went 101 games, collapsed at the end of the year and lose to a Padre team that they should have beat. Like, so you keep, how, how deep are you going to go to try to find the right pieces with this core or just acknowledge that maybe the core just isn't good enough to get it done? Yeah. You know, I think if this were basketball or football or hockey, where, where chemistry has a huge, you know, plays a huge role in it, I would be more inclined to agree with you. But you know, Mike, Michael, you know, talks about this all the time, how there are plenty of teams in baseball history where, you know, you got 25 guys that don't like each other. But it's not, it's not even about not liking each other. It's just about, is it working? You know, Nimmo's been here forever. Alonzo has been here forever. And I understand Alonzo is not the reason why they lost last year.

A (40:08)

He's also not the reason why they.

B (40:09)

Won, but they haven't won since. He's been around some pretty good teams now again.

A (40:15)

And I can relate to Mike because my mother, she's 79 and she's been a Mets fan since they were, since the inception.

B (40:23)

Right.

A (40:23)

Like, that's it. Like, she was a Dodgers fan, they left, and then she's, you know, National League big. So she's been a Mets fan. And it's like, this has also been emotional for her because it's players you like. And what Mike said is interesting. So he's not into the rings culture, this need of. It doesn't matter if you don't win a championship. No, what he's saying is, I enjoy them. And if I like the players and I like watching them play, that's what I care about, that they win more than they lose, and I enjoy the season. And if they don't win a championship, well, you know, only one team gets to win a champion. That's a different attitude. But David Stearns and Steve Cohen especially did not buy the franchise because, you know, if we win, that's great. No, Steve Cohen made it abundantly clear that he wanted a championship within five years. Like, that's what he was about.

B (41:08)

And that was a mistake to say that.

A (41:10)

But it's a show, though, that he's not just, this isn't a toy. This is something he wants to take and win with.

B (41:18)

Right. And. But you're also talking about a franchise that this upcoming season, they will be celebrating their 40th anniversary. 40 since their last championship. Yeah.

A (41:28)

Is that a celebration now?

B (41:29)

If you're a Yankee fan, now that you won in 2009, you were just in the World Series, you know, a little bit of a different story. I don't have to win every year. I'd like to win one once a decade. Would that be that terrible? Once every 20 years? No, I gotta wait 40 years now. 40. I said 40. That's a long time to have to wait. And also, David Stearns, he looks at this team and goes, you know what? If I had a chance to build it, Alonzo wouldn't be my first baseman. Nimmo wouldn't be my shortstop. Senga wouldn't be my ace. These are guys that came here from the previous regime. So he's trying to build it, I guess, in his own image and what he thinks is going to be a winner and let's see if he can do it. And if he doesn't do it, we'll have the right to kill him. But let's see what this whole thing looks like at the end of the day. This message may be shocking to many millennials. If you are one, you might want to sit down right now. Loads of people are searching the following on depop Low rise Jeans, halter top, velour tracksuit, puka shell necklace, disc belt. You likely placed these in the dark of your closet in 2004, never to be seen again. But if you can find it in yourself to dust them off, there are a lot of people who will give you money for them. Sell on Depop where taste recognizes taste. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

A (43:11)

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A (43:35)

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A (43:42)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

B (43:46)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

A (43:47)

Catch the show on demand whenever you you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

B (43:55)

Paul Dano, lead singer of Iron Maiden. So he's kicking it a little old school. Jacob, I think if I got married again, and when I say that, I mean to say that Nancy and I renew our vows. Right. Which we could have done in our 20th anniversary, which, which was this past September. So maybe our 30th. Jacob, since Joey Salvia, who DJed my wedding 20 years ago, is in Dallas, maybe you could be the DJ of my wedding. I think you'd get it. I think you would.

A (44:27)

I wouldn't hate that. That, that, that's high honor, by the way.

B (44:30)

Yeah. I wouldn't even give you a list of songs. I just thought I would trust you.

A (44:33)

Wow.

B (44:34)

How about that? Wow. You know what? That's a lot of pressure.

A (44:37)

I don't know if I can. Pressure. He just said that he trusts.

B (44:41)

That's the highest honor.

A (44:43)

This man who, as we know, this is. This is a discernible man. Yes. He's. He's very critical. And he is not the type that be like, you did your best. No. He would let you know in front of everybody, you suck. Get out of here. I can do this better. Like, that's high praise.

B (45:00)

It's one of my regrets that I had Joey as my dj. Because I would rather have him be a guest. But that was his. His wedding gift to us was to be the dj. But I. I gave him a healthy tip.

A (45:12)

I would hope so.

B (45:12)

Very, very healthy. But how much, Jacob, would you charge for something like that?

A (45:18)

How many hours? What are we talking there?

B (45:19)

Well, what. What was five hours? Probably wedding, right? Six o'? Clock. Six o', clock, cocktail hour. That's not that bad. Like seven to what? Eleven. Eleven. Ish. Yeah. So, you know, you're.

A (45:32)

You're. Yeah. Easy. Four hours.

B (45:34)

Listen, with the friends and family discount.

A (45:36)

And the show discount, okay? Dalek record, you might get a good price. Well, let's hear it. Because I want to. I want to say when. Back when I was really DJ and.

B (45:43)

I was probably like, for every two hours, I'll probably give you like 250. Like, like 300. And I usually go like four hours, depending on the spot.

A (45:53)

Okay, so, Don, you'll get it for.

B (45:57)

Like 100, 100 lesson. I won't.

A (46:02)

As long as I got a good plate.

B (46:03)

I got a good cocktail. Oh, we're rocking all night. I'll be there.

A (46:07)

You're good.

B (46:07)

I'll be there. After feed.

A (46:09)

Let me drink.

B (46:10)

Yes.

A (46:10)

And the money's not even that important.

B (46:12)

Hey, listen. Me too. Hey, listen, 25th anniversary. That's a big one. Wow. Right? That's over, right?

A (46:19)

Yeah.

B (46:20)

So if we renew our vows, 25th anniversary we have. Because it wouldn't be a wedding, but it would be a party, you know, reception, all that. I think Jacob's our guy. What do you think?

A (46:30)

I think it's great. I love it. I think it's a great idea.

B (46:34)

Really, really impressed. And since he played Iron Maiden. Let's go to Ed in Middletown. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Ed? How you doing, guys? Good. So, Don, I understand that the first concert you ever went to was Iron Maiden at Radio city back in 1985. 1985, Queens Reich opened. I was at one of those shows, as you know. They did a run of maybe five or six shows, I think, during that run in January. And it was phenomenal. The Power Slides were. It was my first concert. Yeah, that was a good first concert to go to. My first concert was Santana up in Music Mountain in Sullivan County. Wow. But I can blow your mind and let you know that two days after I saw Iron Maiden with Queens Reich at Radio City, I saw Metallica on the Ride the Lightning tour at the Mid Hudson Civic center in Poughkeepsie with WASP and Armored Saint Armored Saint. I haven't thought about it. Armored Saint in so long.

A (47:40)

Those are two bands.

B (47:42)

So you're Mr. Leo, right? Joe Leo's dad. Because Joe does a great job here at our station. And he told me that my father saw that Iron Maiden show and that you were going to call in. So that's cool that you called in. I would have gotten to you much sooner.

A (47:54)

Now, are you going to ask him what you asked Joe?

B (47:58)

Oh, well, because. What. I'll be honest with you. I didn't know if you were a metal guy or whether you were making. What do I call it? The zipper.

A (48:09)

Zipper Key.

B (48:10)

Zipper key. Like did a girl persuade you to go? Were you looking for something extra or you were completely a metal fan. Oh, no way. I was all in. I was an all in metalhead back in the day. And when did. When did you meet Joe's mom? In 1986.

A (48:29)

Okay.

B (48:30)

So after we went to high school. We went to high school together. So she's seen Metallica a few times. We actually saw Iron Maiden in Dublin in June. We took a special trip to go see that tour. I just. He's in now. The thing is, like, wow. Somebody I work with, a friend's dad is into the same music. But then Joe blew my mind. I'm actually a year older than you, Ed, so that. That bothers me that one of my colleagues at the station has a dad that's younger than what we need, though.

A (49:00)

We need a picture from the 80s of Ed, who must have had glorious hair.

B (49:05)

Yeah, please do that. Give Joe a picture of those days. I had beautiful hair then. I actually, I was at the. The show where Richard from Manhattan was at. I met. I met Peter, but I didn't get an opportunity to meet you two guys. So. Yeah, I was with. I was with as we. As you refer to him on the station. Joe Leo. I don't think you could say just Joe or Leo. It has to be Joe Leo. But thanks for calling, man. That's awesome. I really appreciate it. Yeah, there's some. We need to call it something.

A (49:37)

What?

B (49:37)

When somebody. Because the syllables are just the way it flows, that you always say their full name. Not just because it happens in hockey all the time.

A (49:46)

Usually when it's a single syllable first name, it's easier.

B (49:50)

But not all the time. Like maybe it's just me, Joe Shane. The Joe Shane. Absolutely. You always say Joe Shane, but that's the syllables. Like Joe Leo. But sometimes, like there's a. The Columbus Blue Jackets captain, right, is Boone Jenner. I always Say Boone Jenner. I never just say Jenner when I'm calling the game. For some reason, I always say his full name. Why? And that's not two. It's three syllables. But sometimes it. But there's got to be a name for that. Somebody tweet me or call it. What is that? What do you call it?

A (50:18)

Right.

B (50:19)

When you have to say the person's full name.

A (50:22)

That's interesting. I've never thought about that.

B (50:25)

But, like, think about it. In sports, there's always some guys that you just have to say the whole full. The whole full name. It just doesn't work. Just saying the last.

A (50:32)

I'm trying to think of another, like, especially a famous one. Well, you had to say both names.

B (50:39)

I can't think of anybody well famous. Eddie Murphy. You always have to say Eddie Murphy, right?

A (50:45)

I guess.

B (50:45)

So you'll say Carlin. You don't have to say George Carlin. Right. But you always have to say there's no other Murphy. What would you confuse him with?

A (50:53)

I was only thinking sports. So if you're taking it into all that, I never thought. Look, we all have a friend that we call by their entire name.

B (51:02)

We never just have some friends that you always just refer to by their last name for whatever reason.

A (51:06)

And that's. That's also a common thing. But.

B (51:09)

Well, let me know. Or maybe we can. We can invent Ryan. There you go.

A (51:13)

You always say Matt Ryan. Always just say Ryan.

B (51:16)

You never just say Ryan.

A (51:16)

Ryan steps. No, Matt Ryan.

B (51:18)

Matt Ryan.

A (51:18)

Everything's Matt Ryan.

B (51:20)

But that was fun.

A (51:22)

It's a great call.

B (51:23)

Joe Leo's dad called up to talk about. And the other thing I remember about Maiden, because you might not even remember this.

A (51:29)

That Power Slave. That was my album. I love that. Two minutes to Midnight. That's my. I love that album is.

B (51:36)

Remember back in the 80s, they had those studded bracelets.

A (51:39)

Yo, I had. Yeah.

B (51:41)

And Jimmy Stark, my friend.

A (51:43)

His.

B (51:44)

His was confiscated. They wouldn't let him into the radio city.

A (51:47)

Dangerous. Too dangerous.

B (51:49)

Oh, those were the days, really. Honestly, I probably had parachute pants on. My. My shirt was probably from just shirts where it was probably a white sweater with like a gray knit over it, you know, I'm talking about, like. No, I gotta see the picture. I'm show you.

A (52:06)

You didn't have.

B (52:07)

I'm gonna show you what I Look.

A (52:08)

You remember the sleeveless shirt with the. With the thermal long sleeve underneath that you would like. You'd do that?

B (52:15)

Oh, yeah, yeah. That was the thing. I'm gonna show you.

A (52:17)

Parachute paint. Little bugle boys.

B (52:19)

I got my my my Facebook. I'm gonna show you. I'll tweet it out the picture of what I probably wore to the maiden show.

A (52:25)

I don't have any pictures like that.

B (52:26)

But I'd love to see E and N's next.

A (52:29)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter.

B (52:38)

Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8.

A (52:40)

80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

B (52:46)

Before you go.

A (52:47)

If you want to know what's going.

B (52:48)

On outside your home this football season, check out Blink Outdoor 4 security cameras. Blink helps you keep an eye on things without the hassle of wires or frequent battery replacement. With up to a two year battery life and extended range with Sync module xr, you've got your team on the field. Now get your defense at home. Get Blink today at the Home Depot. How doers get more done.