Hour 3: Mets & Knicks

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 3: Mets & Knicks
Podcast: ESPN New York | Date: June 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

Hour 3 of "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" delivers a quintessentially New York mix: hard-hitting Mets talk after another rough stretch, honest reflection on team-building, spirited Knicks speculation with a summer twist, and a bit of existential mulling on sports, culture, and changing norms. Hosts Don Hahn, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg bring the banter, frustration, and wit, with direct fan interaction on everything from lineup construction to championship heartbreak. The conversation runs from Mets management accountability, Yankees roster dynamics, to deep Knicks playoff optimism — with detours into tobacco’s demise, personal anecdotes, and the business of expanding professional sports (particularly NHL).

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The State of the Mets – Frustration with the Front Office

(00:50 – 06:41)

• Team Underperformance: The Mets dropped two out of three in both Cincinnati and Philadelphia, sitting near the bottom of the National League.
• David Stearns’ Comments: President of Baseball Operations, David Stearns, expresses frustration from both himself and owner Steve Cohen, but withholds judgment on trade deadline moves until later.

  “He’s frustrated. We’re all frustrated. Steve expects us to do better than this. I expect us to do better than this.” – David Stearns (01:40)

• Manager-Speak Critique: Don Hahn and Peter Rosenberg both roll their eyes at Stearns’ platitudes about hard work and effort, seeing these as evasions rather than accountability.

  “I’ve really got nothing out of those two cuts at all. It’s just words.” – Don Hahn (02:52) “No, it wasn’t nothing. You may not like it, but it wasn’t nothing.” – Peter Rosenberg (03:49)

• Clubhouse Culture & Talent Issues: Stearns claims the team plays hard, with “no cohesion or culture issue,” but Don insists the problem is simple: the roster is not talented enough.

  “I never thought it was a lack of hustle… It’s just a lack of talent.” – Don Hahn (04:10) “If he’s happy with the effort, happy with the process, and the team is, you know, seven games under .500, then that tells me…the roster's not good enough. And this roster's got his fingerprints all over it.” – Don Hahn (06:10)

• Coaching Staff: Stearns praises coaches for “working incredibly hard,” but offers nothing on actual results.

  “He’s not saying he’s pleased with the roster. And that’s him, ladies and gentlemen.” – Don Hahn (06:30)

2. Baseball Oddities and Anecdotes – Toothpicks, Tobacco, and Changing Times

(07:15 – 13:13)

• Ul Washington’s Toothpick Habit: The hosts read a ChatGPT explanation for why Ul Washington famously played baseball with a toothpick, sparking discussion about superstitions versus health risks.

  “Without it, I feel naked.” – Ul Washington, as quoted (07:33)

• Tobacco Use in Baseball: Don shares personal stories of trying tobacco as a high school player, detailing discomfort and early-era attitudes toward health.

  “I did it for a while in high school because…I felt like it made me a ballplayer.” – Don Hahn (09:10) “Now…most fields in this country outlaw it. You can't even like a lot of the little league fields…big sign: no chewing tobacco.” – Don Hahn (10:12)

• Sunflower Seed Ban: Even sunflower seeds are discouraged for maintenance reasons.
• Team Softball Roster Updates: Tongue-in-cheek “insider” discussion about summer roster confirmations, showing the lighter side of the hosts.

3. Societal Shifts: Smoking, Regulation, and Cultural Memory

(12:53 – 21:32)

• Why Did Tobacco Get Such a Crackdown? Peter wonders aloud why tobacco faced such legal and cultural repudiation, while alcohol, junk food, and prescription drugs remain mainstream.

  “How did the tobacco industry get so shut down, law-wise?...There are literally foods here that in Europe…this is illegal, this is poison.” – Peter Rosenberg (13:13, 15:59)

• Don’s Perspective: For Don, the difference was that smoking is especially hazardous in any setting, with no “safe” level and significant secondhand danger, eventually making pushback overwhelming.

  “We live in a world where, when done responsibly, [alcohol] is not dangerous to the level where the cancer numbers are so astronomical…and cancer from secondhand smoke.” – Don Hahn (15:11)

• Anecdotes of a Bygone Era: The hosts reminisce about smoke-filled clubs, homes, and even airplanes, amazed at how times have changed.

  “When my kids see somebody smoking on the corner…It would be the equivalent of me or you seeing somebody juggling knives.” – Don Hahn (21:05) “Are you old enough…to go out on a Friday or Saturday, wake up…and could smell the smoke in your hair from just going out?” – Don Hahn (20:28)

4. Fan Calls – Yankees Lineup Choices, Jazz Lollipop, Analytics, and the Injury Bug

(25:16 – 28:31)

• Yankees Talk: A caller questions the professionalism of Jazz Chisholm’s lollipop habit on the field, pushes for lineup changes (specifically playing Spencer Jones in left field vs. lefties), and criticizes “favourite child” treatment of Volpe.
• Analytics vs. Instinct: Don explains how Yankees’ lineup and playing time decisions come from top to bottom, not just Aaron Boone, blaming over-reliance on analytics.

  “It's not all about what Boone wants. This is organizational…Cashman on down.” – Don Hahn (27:01) “They don't believe in hot, they don't believe in clutch…” (27:18)

• Injuries Impacting Evaluation: Don reminds the audience the Yankees are missing key sluggers (Stanton, Judge), so current struggles are contextual.

  “You're judging a baseball team with two of their best players not playing. It's not fair.” – Don Hahn (28:31)

5. Knicks Optimism, NBA Moves & Eastern Conference Landscape

(32:00 – 38:00)

• Boston’s Uncertainty with Jalen Brown: Caller “Spike” (32:00) is confused by the Celtics’ apparent trade indecision regarding a supposed top-10 player.

  “Are they just having him twist in the wind? …I just don’t understand the machinations.” – Spike (32:06)

• Knicks and Vegas Odds: Don offers a gambler’s skepticism—odds are set to draw action, not true probability.

  “They’re prey[ing] on the gambler…they’re kind of suckering you in to make a bet. Sometimes we rely a little bit too much on them being ‘experts.’” – Don Hahn (32:50)

• Why Boston Might Blow It Up: If media reports are right, Boston sees itself as unable to compete with the Knicks “as currently constructed,” thus considering a reset and moving Brown (35:38).
• Knicks Are East Favorites: With Boston, Miami, and Milwaukee retooling or regressing, Don boldly declares:

  “The Knicks to me should be the favorite to go back to the Finals…their biggest obstacle…the West.” – Don Hahn (37:24)

• Pat Riley & Miami’s Long Game: Miami trades for future picks, possibly sacrificing immediate competitiveness for long-term sustainability.

6. NHL Expansion: Houston vs. Austin?

(41:10 – 50:55)

• Expansion Rumor: Don shares that the NHL is considering Houston and Austin for its 33rd team.
• Market Analysis: Houston makes sense due to size, history, and infrastructure. Caller Ryan (49:09) reinforces Houston’s Canadian/transplant population and clear sports appetite.

  “Houston makes more sense. You got a huge Canadian population…my entire street is people who grew up in hockey towns.” – Ryan (49:26)

• Austin’s Growth vs. Infrastructure Issues: While untapped, Austin’s rapid growth outpaces its capacity, making it a less likely fit than Houston.

7. Championship Droughts and Emotional Sports Investment

(44:10 – 47:23)

• Which Teams Deserve a Ring? Caller Alex asks which teams the hosts would most want to see win a title. For Don, it’s his teams (Giants, Mets, Devils) but he acknowledges the Jets’ drought is “adjacent to the Cubs” in duration.

  “They won Super Bowl 3…this next Super Bowl is going to be Super Bowl 61…It’s gonna be 60 years.” – Don Hahn (45:11)

• Fan Devotion: Peter marvels at lifelong fans who stick with perennial losers through decades.

  “In one sense I'm impressed with the commitment…in the other sense I just think like, man, what did you do?” – Peter Rosenberg (45:52)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Mets' Flaws:

  “You know, I watch a Met game, I'm like, this team can't pitch, they can't hit, they can't field…So when we're talking about the culture…I'm just accusing David Stearns of putting together a poor roster, Peter. That's what it really is.” – Don Hahn (04:10–04:40)

• On Modernizing Sports Culture:

  “When my kids see somebody smoking on the corner…it would be the equivalent of me or you seeing somebody juggling knives…Like, they're like, what?! Look at that guy, he's smoking.” – Don Hahn (21:05)

• On Yankees’ Analytical Approach:

  “Boone gets married to this…No, it's not Boone. It's everybody. It's the Yankees. Boone's on board for sure. But this is all discussed ahead of time, way ahead of time. That's why they don't believe in hot, they don't believe in clutch…” – Don Hahn (27:01)

• On the Knicks’ Championship Outlook:

  “Barring anything catastrophic…The Knicks to me should be the favorite to go back to the Finals, and you should be taking on a Spurs team that maybe learned from the loss, or a Thunder team…I mean, it’s only June 23rd. We got a long, long way to go.” – Don Hahn (37:24–38:00)

• On Fan Identity and Suffering:

  “When we hear from the IRAs, you know, and, ‘Hey guys, I just hope this year…’ In one sense I'm impressed with the commitment and in the other sense I just think like, man, what did you do?” – Peter Rosenberg (45:52)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:50–06:41] Mets critique & Stearns commentary
• [07:15–13:13] Toothpick story, tobacco history, and baseball culture
• [13:13–21:32] Discussion on tobacco regulation vs. alcohol/food & generational shifts in attitudes
• [25:16–28:31] Yankees roster management, injuries, and manager/analytics debate
• [32:00–38:00] Knicks, Celtics, and NBA Eastern Conference power ranking speculation
• [41:10–50:55] NHL expansion: Houston vs. Austin, and NHL market logic
• [44:10–47:23] The heartbreak of enduring fandom and the Jets’ historic drought

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Tone and Takeaways

The tone oscillates between exasperated, sarcastic, nostalgic, and hopeful—classic New York sports conversation, but layered with honest assessment and wry humor. The hosts never let go of their passion (or their willingness to call out management), and push for accountability, whether analyzing front office missteps or the stubbornness of sports traditions. They also continually engage with their callers, reflecting both the city’s diversity of sports allegiances and its total emotional investment in every squad from the Mets and Knicks to the Rangers and Jets.

If you missed it: You’ll come away with a deeper understanding of the Mets' woes, the Yankees' rigid philosophy, why the Knicks are the new standard-bearer, and how New York sports heartbreak is as much civic identity as it is pain. Plus, you'll catch bright flashes of sports history, pop culture, and a few laughs at the absurdity of it all.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Podcast Announcer]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Podcast Announcer]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Don Hahn]

Game time is brought to you by Tullamore Du Irish Whiskey Bee. Cause when it's game time, Peter, it's Tully time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's Tully time.

[Don Hahn]

Cubs Mets, they'll try it again after getting rained out yesterday. They're gonna be on a 7:10 first pitch. So our coverage at 6:30 will be on 880 right after us. NBA draft hosted by Alan Hahn will be on 10:50 and will stream on the ESPN app at 7:30. Now the Yankees visit the Tigers at 6:40. The Liberty are in Vegas to take on the aces at 10. Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Iris Whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew honey during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying now. David Stearns of the Mets spoke before the game today usually does that the beginning of home stands and the Mets did not have a great road trip as they dropped two out of three against Cincinnati and two out of three against Philadelphia. David, what are your conversations like with Steve Cohen?

[David Stearns]

I think Steve wants us to certainly be better than we are. He's frustrated. We're all frustrated. Steve expects us to do better than this. I expect us to do better than this. He, like me, is going to withhold judgment on any sort of trade deadline strategy until we have to make a decision closer to that time.

[Don Hahn]

Malt's creeping up. What is this game 78? So we're very close to the midway point of the season and still, even though they're only what, six games out of a playoff spot, there's only two teams worse than them in the entire National League is San Francisco and Colorado. So I wouldn't really be thinking too much about the playoffs right now if I were the mats. David, where does the team need to be the most consistent?

[David Stearns]

I think at various points of the season, it's been various parts of the team for a large segment of the season. I would have said the offense, I would have said we need to more consistently score runs. Over the last couple weeks, as we've touched on here, I think our starting pitching allowing us to get deeper into games more competitively. So I think both of those segments, both our run scoring and our starting rotation are areas where we're going to have to be more consistent going forward to go on the type of run and prolonged quality play that. That we need to have.

[Don Hahn]

I'm not going to be honest with you. I've really got nothing out of those two cuts at all. It just words. But this one could be interesting, Peter.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, let's find out.

[Don Hahn]

How would you. Or how would he.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I want to tell you, if this cut is useless, I'm not going to respond. I'm just going to start a fanduel read.

[Don Hahn]

All right. You know what? I like that this is the game we play. Opinion or read. David Stearns, how would you assess the Mets clubhouse culture? That's a good one, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Seemingly.

[David Stearns]

My observations is that those guys have meshed pretty well. I think we're playing hard. Doesn't always mean we're playing well, but I think we're playing hard. I think our guys do care about winning. So I have not seen a clubhouse cohesion culture issue.

[Don Hahn]

Honestly, I think this deserves an opinion because I have one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it wasn't terrible. It wasn't nothing.

[Caller or Guest]

So.

[Don Hahn]

No, it wasn't nothing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. You may not like it, but it wasn't nothing.

[Don Hahn]

Well, here's the thing. I. I can only give you my thoughts. I never thought it was a lack of caring. I never thought it was a lack of hustle. To me, it's just a lack of talent. So you're bringing up these things that I. Were they on the table? You know, I watch a Met game, I'm like, this team can't pitch, they can't hit, they can't feel. They're not living.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but besides those.

[Don Hahn]

Besides those things, you know, so when we're talking about the culture, are these winners, are these guys that have the ability to go out there and be, as you said before the season started, David, that they were gonna be better than they were last year and they're on pace to be way worse. So when you're telling me that there's not a lack of hustle or a lack of care, why are you bringing out stuff that we're talking about? Culture. Culture.

[Podcast Announcer]

Is.

[Don Hahn]

Is there a level of accountability? Is there a level of ability to win? That, to me, is culture. I don't think anybody was accusing them of being lazy. I just accusing David Stearns of putting together a poor roster, Peter. That's what it really is. So finally the last one, he was asked about the coaching staff.

[David Stearns]

I think our staff and our coaches are working incredibly hard every day to get these guys going. And I think in certain areas they're as frustrated as anyone that we haven't seen better results.

[Don Hahn]

But in terms of the process that

[David Stearns]

you're seeing, I'm pleased with it.

[Don Hahn]

All right, so he's pleased with the effort, he's pleased with the process. So the one thing he's not saying is that he's pleased with the roster. And that's him, ladies and gentlemen. Not that you needed to be told this. And I know we've been very focused on the Knicks and I'm sure even a lot of die hard Met fans have watched less Mets baseball over the last month than they would normally because of the Knicks run. This is a David Stearns problem. It really is. And the sad thing about it is you usually don't see general managers get fired in season. And I don't think Steve Cohen's got an appetite to let David go for as long as he waited for. But clearly what David is telling you is if he's happy with the effort and he's happy with the process and he's happy with the coaching and the team is, you know, seven games under.500, then that tells me that the roster's not good enough. And this roster's got his fingerprints all over it. Big fat hand fingerprints all over it. He didn't take over a team that was absent of Alonzo Nimmo McNeil. Those guys are gone because of him. He built what he thought was going to be a better team than the 83 win team last year. And if everything else is okay, Peter, the roster is a major problem. And your problem, ladies and gentlemen, is David Stearns. Peter Rosenberg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

why did you all. Washington play baseball with a toothpick in his mouth? Okay, let's see what Chatgpt says. Can this be trusted, by the way?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, probably.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, that didn't sound like arousing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, you don't know. It depends on the ask. Sometimes AI gets stuff right, sometimes it's dead wrong.

[Don Hahn]

Ul Washington played with a toothpick in his mouth because it was a habit he developed as a young man. He said he started carrying a toothpick instead of chewing tobacco, which he disliked and partly because his father always had a toothpick in his mouth. Washington once explained, my father did the same thing. It's just a habit. Without it, I feel naked. So there was a reason. So that's why I think it's understandable, Peter. Now, was it the safest thing in the world to do? Would Major League baseball allow it today? That I can't answer, but he gave. If that. If Chatgpt is telling the truth here, that's a reason he did it. What would. What would jazz his reason to be other than just to be that guy?

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was hungry, wanted a snack. That's it. I mean, it's not that different than developed a habit. Let's not act like that's some sort of, you know, incredible reason.

[Caller or Guest]

No.

[Don Hahn]

The toothpick became his trademark. He kept one in his mouth while batting, fielding, and even talking to reporters. In a 1980 interview, Washington said it helped him relax, much like other players use chewing tobacco or diploma. God. I just. Who came up with the idea? It's one thing to come up with the idea, let's smoke this growth out of the ground. But who came up with the idea to chew it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You got to do something.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Had you ever.

[Caller or Guest]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Nope.

[Caller or Guest]

New.

[Don Hahn]

I did it for a while in high school because I just want. I felt like it made me a ball player.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I get it like. Like marking with the glasses.

[Don Hahn]

And they're two pitfalls for me. One, it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

One's the mouth cancer.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I wasn't thinking about mouth cancer at the time.

[Advertiser Voice]

This was the 80s.

[Don Hahn]

Nobody was thinking about it. As you know, the coach of the team was smoking a heater. I don't want to say cancer wasn't a thing. It certainly was a thing, but we didn't seem as overly concerned about it. No, it wasn't that. It was. You could get lightheaded.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that a good thing or bad?

[Don Hahn]

No, it's a bad thing.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Cause it's part of the thing.

[Don Hahn]

Like, if you weren't used to it. And you put a bunch.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

You get high. It's a problem. The other thing is the spit is you could accidentally swallow it and it just burns all the way down, like to your belly. Like it's not pleasant. And so you're chewing. And I was doing it as a pitcher, which is very rare. So like a line drive up the middle. All of a sudden I swallow a little bit and I'm gagging. That's not good for the next pitch.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don Hahn]

So I do not recommend it. Most fields in this country outlawed. You can't even like a lot of the Little league fields the Marco plays on is a big sign. No chewing tobacco. Believe it. You know, really, it's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's still there.

[Don Hahn]

They don't even want you to use sunflower seeds while you're playing either. I think it just messes up the who want. No, but it's nasty. No, but you know, it's not a Major League baseball. There's not a bunch of maintenance people coming and clearing the field of sunflowers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So now you've been spitting sunflower seeds all in the dugout, everywhere.

[Don Hahn]

So I think it's more just because of a maintenance thing than a health thing. But nobody's doing it anymore. No.

[Caller or Guest]

No.

[Don Hahn]

Kids are doing sunflowers. I'll do some sunflower seeds if I'm playing softball. The Mark Sasso, August 22, by the way. Putting together our roster. Yes. And we've got some name. We got some confirmation. Greg Buttles. Confirmed. Brian o' Halloran. Confirmed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm feeling pretty good right now. Peter's feeling pretty good.

[Don Hahn]

Chris Carlin's feeling pretty good. Chris Canty felt pretty good last year. Actually said yes and then didn't show.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the unfortunate one.

[Don Hahn]

And now we're done dead. I'm 58 years old. I'm trimming the tree.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. So Candy's out.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. So I'm not even asking him. But we're getting a lot of reaction. So it's going to be good. Danico said yes, so we're going to have some fun.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I believe you should get an active Devil player this year.

[Don Hahn]

An active.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don Hahn]

Well, let them finalize the roster. You mean get Jack?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why not?

[Don Hahn]

From Golden Goal to Mark Sasso. Jack Hughes story.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Captain America. Why not? What do you think?

[Don Hahn]

You take more pride in the Golden Goal or like a game winning home run in the Mark Sasso?

[Caller or Guest]

I think.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think they'd both be on the ledger.

[Don Hahn]

I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What time you starting this thing?

[Don Hahn]

I honestly Five o'.

[Caller or Guest]

Clock.

[Don Hahn]

We always start at five. I honestly, if given. What do they call it? If given audience with Jack Hughes, which I will not have before August 22nd because camp doesn't open until after that. But if I were to, I don't know, run into him at a function or something and I had his attention, I don't think I'd have the guts to ask him because that's a big ask. Ken Danico is one thing you want to say, you know, rice Salvador is one thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

One day. It was year one for you. One day there may be a year when you could say, hey Jack, you know what? But that time is not yet. Not after year one.

[Caller or Guest]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It could happen though. You don't know. You don't know where the relationship goes.

[Don Hahn]

No, you don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I want to ask a question.

[Don Hahn]

Let's get to a point maybe where he comes and say don, is there any spots open on the marks essay?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Exactly. Who knows?

[Don Hahn]

We'd love to get to that point. That'd be amazing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I want to throw one thing at you before we take these calls.

[Don Hahn]

Do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You brought up smoking and chewing tobacco is banned from baseball fields.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The one thing that's been on my mind recently now that I understand how America works better America. What politician is responsible who didn't play ball the right way that led to the demise of the tobacco industry. Like think about it. Alcohol is running wild, killing people. Never slows down. Nope, it's never slow. It is literal poison. Never slows down. Always for sale. Drinking and driving. They keep plowing through alcohol's although they have had a down few years, I'm told. But in general, no problem. Not because of legality, that's just because of popularity. Prescription drugs, all kinds of food that gives us cancer. Everything bad for you has no issues. In fact they're repealing things to even our current government doesn't even want you to know about things that are bad for you. We don't want regulation, just feed it right to the people. So my question is being that it's obviously all about money and that's all that matters. It's not about people's lives whatsoever. Who dropped the ball and is the reason why the tobacco industry got so shut down law wise. Like think about how big a cliff they fell off. When you talk about from being at the top of the mountain and I understand it like the evidence starts coming out about cancer. That's tough.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's no, that's big.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no. But that's not enough. Because other things have it and it doesn't matter. They're the only one that really. It got so much worse. You can't do it anywhere. It went from everyone, at least outside. Don, you can't even do it outside.

[Don Hahn]

But Peter, we did ban alcohol. Everyone said this is a horrible idea. We need an amendment to get it back. Well, that's the thing is that didn't work well, that we did put our foot down during prohibition, that this cannot stand. And as much as smokers are aggravated by this, it didn't get to the point like it did where prohibition, where it was not now alcohol was banned. But we also have a banishment where you can't smoke anywhere, you can't smoke outside. It's almost like unless you get to go in your car or your own

[Peter Rosenberg]

home, they've made the taxes on it so prohibitively expensive.

[Don Hahn]

Here's the difference to me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Go ahead.

[Don Hahn]

Is that we do live in a world where when done responsibly, it's not dangerous to the level where the cancer numbers are so astronomical and cancer from secondhand smoke. So now not only you putting yourself in danger, you could be putting people around you in danger. That it was just too much to ignore that even casually smoking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But you're still see, but you're still going with what I can't believe, which is that these things were done for the well being of people. And I'm sorry, I don't trust our country to do that. Don. We consistently show through the foods that we consume by what's considered okay compared to what's considered okay in Europe. There are literally foods here that in Europe they go, oh, with these ingredients, this is illegal, this is poison.

[Don Hahn]

And here they go, no problem. I understand that. But there's our cancer numbers are through the roof level of debate.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not really. It's just not enough awareness.

[Don Hahn]

But with. But you can't tell me that the tobacco industry wasn't powerful.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They were.

[Don Hahn]

It was powerful.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I guarantee you something had to happen.

[Don Hahn]

But I just think the numbers just. There was no debate about it anymore. You know, we went from the 50s where 4 out of 5 doctors recommend palm oil. Now it's laughable. When you go back, you see old commitments. It's laughable. Talk about completely lying to the public. And some of it was just an ignorance. I mean, just look at the concussion situation with the NFL. You ignore it. You ignore it until the point is the stats just don't lie. And then eventually you have to address it. That's what happened with the NFL, they didn't all of a sudden find religion. The stats were there.

[Caller or Guest]

This is it.

[Don Hahn]

You're seeing former athletes committing suicide at ridiculous levels. We're seeing these players not recovering in the way that they should. You have to address this to the point where the NFL said we don't have a problem here, where they've literally changed the rules of the sport because the numbers just didn't lie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, and you can still argue they haven't done that. They're gonna do more.

[Don Hahn]

Right. But they were moved by. Listen, you don't have a leg to stand on anymore.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It wasn't at a good will where

[Don Hahn]

there are things where I guess as small as the ledge may be, there may still be enough to say, no, we're still good. And I think with alcohol, you could say and when drinking responsibly, that it's not as harmful. Although we're seeing stats that just use of any alcohol can lead to cancer.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, and by the way, if you were the smoking lobby, and I'm sure they could have tried to present this. Well, listen, if you have a cigarette here or there, you'll be fine. But they weren't able to present that case. Now, obviously, we know most smokers don't operate that way. It wouldn't have been done in earnest.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just find it fascinating. I do wonder, though, what the political. Is there a movie about this?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, thank you for smoking. Thank you for smoking instead of thank you for not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that about the. Is that what Eric?

[Don Hahn]

It's about the tobacco? I think it was whenever the main movie was made. I guess the movie was made, what, late 90s, early 2000s. And it was in real time about trying to figure out five. It wasn't an issue, and that was just 20 years ago. But the numbers over those two decades has just been astronomical. Plus the addictiveness, too. Now, we know alcohol is addictive, but there are plenty of people that have an occasional drink that don't become alcoholics. But of course, can you, considering how addictive nicotine is, can you be a casual smoker or are you eventually gonna go from a cigarette every now and then to all of a sudden two packs a day? And I'm not a scientist, but I'm trying to answer your question. What could be the difference?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And by the way, just to be clear, nor am I crying for the tob industry. And by the way, they've. They've made it work now they figured out vapes. No one understands the death trap those are.

[Don Hahn]

And they're doing all right. I got to tell you, I cannot. You cannot. There's certain highway. There's a highway by me, Route 18 that kind of connects like 287 to the parkway.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

You can't.

[Don Hahn]

You can't go 100 yards. Dispensary vape. Dispensary vapes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know. We did all of this stuff, and now it's. You just smell weed smoke everywhere, and people vape everywhere.

[Don Hahn]

Like, there was a.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's no getting around.

[Don Hahn]

We took the kids out. Mark Declan had his last baseball game on Friday night, so we went for ice cream after the game. And there was a pizzeria that was just down a few doors from the. From the creamery. And a guy. Two guys were smoking a cigarette outside the pizzeria. The smoke, the smell of the smoking, that was something that was a part of my life for decades, was so overwhelming, it almost made me sick.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Isn't that crazy?

[Don Hahn]

But. Because that's how rare I smell it. But weed. I can't walk anywhere without smoking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Isn't that interesting?

[Don Hahn]

Isn't that still smoking?

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I will say this.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, because there's no nicotine. That it's not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I will say this as someone who, if there were no health repercussions, would enjoy a cigarette more than I would enjoy a joint. The cigarette smoke does just hit worse than the weed smoke. It's like.

[Don Hahn]

But it never did when we were growing up. I know because my mom and dad were smoking in the car.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was built in. I know it was built in there. In the club. I'd be in the club.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, this was the seventies. Nobody thought it was a bad idea, by the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They were considered great parents if they didn't just hand on the cigarette. Let him have a smoke. At 7 years old.

[Don Hahn]

Are you old enough? I know Jake and Anthony are of what it was like to go out on a Friday or Saturday night, wake up the next morning and shower. And, like, you could smell the smoke in your hair from just going out and everybody smoking.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was. I was DJing at that time, so they banned it when I was, like, in my early 20s. And I remember being annoyed because as a DJ, I'm like, oh, man. That's like part of everyone's. Now people won't want to party as much.

[Don Hahn]

I love where we're at, though, because when. When my kids see somebody smoking on the corner, it would be the equivalent of me or you seeing somebody juggling knives on the corner. Like, they're like, what? Look at that guy. He's smoking.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh my God.

[Don Hahn]

What's wrong with him? I love the fact that that's what they're growing up with. But we didn't grow up with that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, not at all. And can you believe when I was at Outback smoking or none, Imagine now it being enough that there was a smoking section 20ft away. If there was a smoking section in a restaurant 20ft from you now, you'd be gagging the entire I'm not on a plane. Oh, on a plane, no problem. Smoke in the back.

[Don Hahn]

You're in a metal tube where you think there's smoke.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, but smoke in the back, that was always a thing. I think if you want to, if you be polite, go stand in the back.

[Don Hahn]

But the smoke wasn't going to get to you on the plane. It doesn't make sense. What kind of filtration system is that? That's pretty good for back that time. I think the last time I was on a plane that actually had an ashtray was like 06. If you're on a plane that's got an ashtray in your seat, that's an old stop flying Frontier, Sprint or Spirit.

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[Podcast Announcer]

listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Announcer]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

The ESPN New York Beach Bash is back Thursday, July 2nd at Bar A in Lake Como, New Jersey. Head down to the Jersey shore. Join the Michael K Show and us live starting at 1pm and an appearance by DiPietro Rothenberg, Bart Carlin and more. We'll have plenty of giveaways for fans in attendance, a soccer watch party, and a chance to test your skills by trying to kick a soccer ball past Rick DiPietro. Plus music from surfing for Daisy. They'll be playing an hour before and they'll be playing after the show. And I've picked the song now I've been listening to it non stop just so that I can get the whole rhythm of it. And they also sent me video Peter of them performing the song so I know how they do it. And the only hint I'll give you the song was released in 1969. I believe this will be the oldest song that I've done in my repertoire.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm thinking, I'm thinking Beatles.

[Don Hahn]

Well, listen and find out or be there and find out.

[Advertiser Voice]

Well, you got to be there.

[Don Hahn]

Anyway, it's all brought to you by Spike Day. You don't know Miller Lynn.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You really don't.

[Don Hahn]

Says it right here. Fanatics Fest NYC and the New Jersey Lottery must be at least 21 years of age to enter. I saw Scopen. Jeff Scopin says he's going to really? Everybody's going to the Beach Bash. All right, let's hear from you. Myriad of topics on the table. 1-800-919-3776. Let's go back to the busy phones and let's talk to Jake in Jupiter, Florida. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Jake?

[Caller or Guest]

What's up, guys?

How are you?

[Don Hahn]

Good, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm doing well, thanks for asking. I was calling earlier to talk to my. Okay. But I'm happy to talk to you guys too.

[Don Hahn]

Cool. Thank you.

[Caller or Guest]

If you talk to Michael, tell him Jake from Jupiter. I really appreciate him. I look forward to listening to his broadcast every day when he gets to talk for the Yankees.

[Don Hahn]

We love Michael.

[Caller or Guest]

That's what I was originally calling talk about the Yankees. You guys down to talk about the eggs?

[Don Hahn]

Sure, go ahead. Go for it.

[Caller or Guest]

So the most recent thing that came out was Jazz is a lollipop, obviously, kind of from. I think it's kind of unprofessional. I don't really. I think it's also kind of dangerous. I don't. I don't love it. I think if he's in the dugout would be fine. I don't think there's any hope.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So.

[Caller or Guest]

Room for that on the field, right? Yeah, there's any room for on the field. I think my other biggest issue with them right now, you know, I'd love to see Boone get a little bit stricter with his players and his playing time with these guys. You know, we obviously, we had some injuries, but we're experiencing. Trying to keep Cabby in the lineup, which I want to keep having the lineup, but I think he belongs at shortstop versus going in the outfield. And I think last night was a perfect example. They are so focused. Mlb, especially on the analytical side of things, really should have been Spencer Jones in left field facing a lefty. Eventually. Eventually these guys have to get good at facing lefties, and there's only one way to do that, and that's through experience. So I'd love to see Spencer stay in left field, be able to go against a lefty in the MLB and have Cabbie back at shortstop. I think Cabbie and Jazz have amazing chemistry between each other. I've been watching all these games, and it gets frustrating. All of a sudden, they bring up Volpe, who I'm not the biggest fan of. I think he has like this, like, favorite child thing. You know, it's this whole New Jersey story with Yankees fan. That's great.

[Don Hahn]

That's all.

[Caller or Guest]

I don't think it's that.

[Don Hahn]

I think they're just committed to a kid that they think has a load of potential and they want to try to make this work. But as you. You answered your own question with the analytics. You know, lefties versus lefties. If I give him experience facing lefties, well, then I'm going against the analytics of making sure that I have got a righty there. You know, I'd like Jones. I think there may be potential there. But are they as married to Jones, who's what, 25 years old and finally getting his first experience in the major leagues, as opposed to a Volpe who's Been here a while, and they're obviously committed to try to make it work at shortstop. And I. And I was so nice not to have to talk about the analytics during the Knicks run. But again, it's not all about what Boone wants. This is organizational, how much a guy plays, where he plays. This is all discussed by everybody. Cashman on down. So, you know, Boone does this, Boone does that. Boone gets married to this. No, it's not Boone. It's everybody. It's the Yankees. Boone's on board for sure. But this is all discussed ahead of time, way ahead of time. That's why they don't believe in hot, they don't believe in clutch. It's. They've got it panned out for the next two weeks, who's going to play where and who's going to play against what pitcher and all that. So I understand you're making sense, but it's just kind of where the Yankees have always had it. And I can't beat up on the Yankees right now when two of their best offensive players are on the shelf. They're going to struggle offensively without standing Judge. It's a miracle they were winning the games that they were winning at the clip. They were winning well. They went seven out of eight at one point with Judge out of the lineup. Stand out of the lineup.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don Hahn]

But eventually it's going to catch up with you when you've got a team that's built around the home run and guys not getting it done. So it's going to take a while for them to find their legs. With these guys out, you got to try to get them back sooner than later. Looks like Stanton's obviously a lot closer than Judge, but they're not going to miss the playoffs. I still think they're going to win the division. And as long as you get these guys back in time of the postseason, I really don't see a threat. This team should be able to go to the World Series. Now, whether they can win it, we'll have to wait and see. But right now you're judging a baseball team with two of their best players not playing. It's not fair. Let's go to spike in St. Pete. Always good to talk to him. You're on ESPN. New York. What's up, Spike?

[Caller or Guest]

I will be there in August.

[Don Hahn]

We didn't lose him, did we?

[Caller or Guest]

No.

[Don Hahn]

All that time on hold and we've just lost Spike. Oh, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Come on, man. What in the. Zach Zarba is going on?

[Don Hahn]

Well, we got plenty of time in the segment. Hopefully, you'll be able to call back, but it sounded like he was saying that he's going to try to be there for August 26th.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Appreciate that.

[Don Hahn]

David and Elizabeth, you're on. Don Rosenberg. What's up? Oh, don't worry. I did good today. What'd you do?

[Caller or Guest]

I miss you.

[Don Hahn]

Nah, because remember yesterday, you guys went to me, and as I ran to

[Caller or Guest]

the truck, you guys hung up. But it's my fault. So let's get straight into it. First and foremost, this is the first time you speak. This is the first and foremost,

[Peter Rosenberg]

you know.

[Don Hahn]

Hello, David.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You said you were going to be better, and then you, like, switched your Bluetooth. Now what happened?

[Caller or Guest]

Hello?

[Don Hahn]

You there?

[Caller or Guest]

I apologize. Wait, wait. I apologize.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, let's start over again for the third time.

[Don Hahn]

Here we go. Right in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Third time's the charm. Oh, yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Always appreciate you, gentlemen. Yes. First and foremost, champions.

[Don Hahn]

Feels good to say that.

[Caller or Guest]

You know, we've been on world tours since.

[Don Hahn]

Okay, all right, we're good here.

[Caller or Guest]

This is what I wanted to.

[Don Hahn]

All right. There's only so much a human being could take, and I don't want to rip and break the computer.

[Caller or Guest]

Be.

[Don Hahn]

Deep breath. It's gonna be okay. Worst things in my life have happened, but this isn't the top 10

[Caller or Guest]

that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, what I attribute that to? That is the fact that after all these years, we have to just admit it. While there's upside to it, Bluetooth overall is sort of a failed technology. Like, it does well for the most part, but there are moments with Bluetooth where it's just doing whatever it's.

[Don Hahn]

It's gonna.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, we haven't figured it all. It was clearly. It sounded like his phone was switching back and forth between the phone and the Bluetooth, and. And it's unfortunate what happened, but I. I hung up David because I needed to protect Don. That's called being a teammate. And I didn't want Don to have a heart attack right here and, you know, have a. Have a. Well, what gets lodged right here or what Claw. What's it called?

[Don Hahn]

Oh, the bear claw.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A bear claw lodge right here in this region. So I wanted to protect him, so I had to hang up.

[Don Hahn]

Well, because we've worked together long enough that, you know, oh, I know where we're going. I'm about to boil. And this wouldn't have been a fun rant. Boil. This would have been, you know, meltdown city.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. So we're doing the right thing, and we're protecting you.

[Don Hahn]

Spike in St. Pete is back Sorry, I apologize.

[Caller or Guest]

I just dropped the phone. I will be there. August 22nd. Nice. This is a strange day for me. I wanted to ask Peter this since I heard the news. What are the Celtics doing with Jalen Brown? Are they just having him twist in the wind is the third time they offered him out and he's a top 10 player in the league. Very, very plummoxed, as K would say about that. But the east has gotten not even arguably, definitively weaker. Pat Riley is 81 years old, and I don't know what he's doing down there. I just don't understand the machinations of how this. These trades went down. Someone explained it to me, but I think the Knicks, they look like they're their fifth betting choice. I don't understand it at all.

[Don Hahn]

Well, what I'm starting to learn about gambling, Spike, is that I think we get a little too caught up in, oh, Vegas thinks the Heat are the third best chance of winning the Eastern Conference. They're preying on the gambler, saying, oh, they just got Giannis. Let me bet on the Heat. I think they're kind of trying to draw people in. Oh, the Knicks are not favored. And getting a ton of Knick fans. We know there's a ton of Knick fans out there going, oh, yeah, I'm going to bet. I really think that they're kind of suckering you in to make a bet. And I think sometimes we rely a little bit too much on them being, quote, unquote, experts.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, but, Don, I always understood this from football betting when I bet years ago. They always let the big bettors get in early, establishment the line, then the money will balance out itself.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, that'll happen over the summer.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I understand OKC being a small favorite over San Antonio. The west was arguably had the better teams, didn't prove out that way. Next one. 14 out of 15 and, and. And raised the spirit of New York City like something I never, never saw in my life. And I've been around a long, long time. I just don't quite understand it because it makes no sense. I don't understand Brad Stevens either. He's a genius at making trades, and he got rid of all those players. And a miraculous thing happened with Joe Missoula, who, on one hand brought the team to unheralded heights and then all of a sudden kept shooting threes. He won with it. Now he lost. I don't understand the whole thing. I'm happy about it. And this apron thing. I don't sell restaurant supplies. People don't understand that. You only have to stay out of it for two years out of the five. So the Knicks can sign everybody because they have Bird rights on Mitchell Robinson. They're going to bring this entire team back. They're going to trade their first pick tonight. Mark my words. It's $3.4 million off the cap.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, that's important.

[Caller or Guest]

Talk to me. Why did they do this with Boston?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can't. I can't explain because I don't know and I don't like it. I believe Don kind of got to it earlier, Spike, which is that. Well, he. Basically, the logic may be we no longer have, you know, Horford, we no longer have Drew Holiday, we no longer have poor Zingus. All right? We're not going to be able to get close enough with what we have. Unless. Unless. Well, not just.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Size and other talent. We're not going to be able to get back unless we trade one of the big dogs.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I guess that's how they see it, because why otherwise would you want to reset? You'd think if you could, you just keep Jalen Brown and Tatum at the core and you go fill in the other spots. They obviously think they're too far away.

[Don Hahn]

If. If Wendy's right about that, they felt like they would have gotten boat race by the Knicks. What they're telling you is presently constituted, they're not close to the Knicks. And if they want to get close to the Knicks, it's not little tiny pieces here or there. It's catastrophic change. And that means trading one of your big two, and you're not trading Tatum. So Brown becomes the guy that you trade, and then you get a haul back to reconstruct your team. That's what you're looking at. That's why Boston's not the threat, because they've got to reconstruct their team in their own mind in order to compete with the Knicks. So that, to me, that checks the box there. Miami just made a deal. They're going to be relying on picks later on. Give Pat Riley credit, man. Like, Pat Riley wants this team to be competitive after he's decided not to do this anymore. He's 81 years old, and I hope he lives till he's 100. But he's not going to be the president of basketball operations forever. I mean, but are they going to be. Is he going to be around the Miami Heat when they're picking in the. In 19, in 2031 and 2033? Nobody wants to make sure that after he's gone. This team is still wildly competitive, but it's probably going to come at the expense of the immediate, which is next year. So check the heat off. Indiana to me and Detroit are the two concerns. Is Detroit ready to take the next step? And you know how well they played the Knicks during the course of the year. And Indiana, who came within a whisker of winning the whole thing last year, is getting Halliburton back. But as far as Boston, Miami, Milwaukee, now since the trade, Orlando, who am I missing? Atlanta? No, no, the Knicks are at the top of the heap. To me, the biggest wall standing between the Knicks and a repeat is the West. Barring anything catastrophic injury, things unforeseen, the Knicks to me should be the favorite to go back to the Finals, and you should be taking on a Spurs team that maybe learned from the loss, or a Thunder team that's hungry to get back to their championship ways. That could be to me, their biggest obstacle. But hey, it's only June 23rd. We got a long, long way to go.

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[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Announcer]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Couple of trades in the NHL as they are on the eve of of their draft coming up on Friday. She loves San Jose Sharks have acquired the ninth overall pick from Ottawa as part of a William Eklund deal. He's a good 23 year old left winger, a kid kind of coming into his own but still hasn't quite gotten there yet. He had 53 points last year but the other one, this according to Pierre Lebrun that, excuse me, Elliot Freeman is mentioning that Jordan Cairo got traded to the Washington Capital so that strengthens the team in the metropolitan division and I don't know if Peter's going to touch on this at enn. You know while I was talking about the hockey about the NHL looking to expand at least to a 33rd team and they're deciding being between Houston and Austin now. I think somebody put out a list of the biggest market in the United States that didn't have a professional sports franchise and I think Austin was at or near the top of that list. So Houston seems like the logical place. They had the Arrows back there in the WHA. Gordie Howe played there, but that was, you know, 50 years ago. So Houston, huge population. I think it's in the top 10, population wise. And then give a rival to Dallas and Texas. But Austin's interesting, Peter, if you know the NHL trying to get into an untapped market. But I've heard nothing of a good thing. Big college town, but Austin's really interesting. I have heard nothing but amazing things about Austin.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You've never been.

[Don Hahn]

I've been to Houston, by the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think Houston's underrated too. I'm a fan.

[Don Hahn]

But I guess because they have the Astros and they have the Texans and they have the Rockets, like, do I want to be the fourth team in that market or I don't want to tap in and be the first team in the market. Like that's what that was. The logic by putting the Blue Jackets in Columbus because Columbus was the biggest market without a professional team and they've done well. The Devils had a game, it was New Year's Eve in Columbus the same night that Ohio State had a playoff game and they still filled the building. So Austin's interesting. I always thought Houston would be the

[Peter Rosenberg]

place, but let's see that. This is. And this is why I give you a hard time about you not going on enough trips, Don. Because unless they get a hockey team, you're never going to see Austin. And you deserve to.

[Don Hahn]

Thank you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You should go see. You should go have some barbecue. You should go out onto whatchamacallit street and see all the 20 year old girls getting in fights. There's so much to do.

[Don Hahn]

So you're telling me how great the city is and number two on your list of reasons was college girls getting into fights.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's only if you're lucky. I mean, I've been during south by Southwest. I've seen it all.

[Don Hahn]

Let's go to Alex in Lynnbrook. You're on espn, New York. What's up, Alex?

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, hi, Don. Is it Steppenwolf's Born to be Wild, the song you're gonna perform?

No.

[Don Hahn]

That's a good guess, though.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

That's not

[Caller or Guest]

maybe. Dude, that Peter, you should do. You should open the show with the knock knock, knock on heaven's door. I think you'd be good at it. But anyway, my question is, I'm curious what you guys would do. Hang on list here. Which would be the next three teams most important to you that you want to see a championship.

[Don Hahn]

Three teams that are most important to us, that we'd want to see a championship.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, like mine would be Jets, Rangers and Mets. Knicks is one. So which three teams would you like? Well, that's, that's for them to win the championship.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I mean, easy for like, because I guess those are the teams that you're a fan of. I mean, I'm a fan of the Giants, the Mets and the Devils. So I would probably because I'm working with the Devils. That would be my team. And then the mets. It's been 40 years. And then the 40, even though I'm a Giant fan. How could you not want to see the jets in this streak?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Peter, you would.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, it's, they won Super Bowl 3. This next super bowl is going to be Super Bowl 61. And they're not winning the super bowl this year and probably not the next year because they don't have a quarterback. So. Peter, they're gonna. It's gonna be 60 years. It's still not the Cubs, but it's adjacent. You're getting like 60 years, man. Which means if you were a 20 year old, you're an 80 year old man. That's putting the Rangers of 54 years and Knicks at 53 years to shame at this point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I gotta tell you, that's why I, when we hear from the IRAs, you know, and hey guys, I just hope this year, you know, blah, blah. I just. In one sense I'm impressed with the commitment and in the other sense I just think like, man, what did you do? What did you do?

[Don Hahn]

I got to tell you, and what

[Peter Rosenberg]

if you never get it, Don? What if you never get it?

[Don Hahn]

Now you were talking about the biggest championships and the Cubs are clearly the biggest they got 40 million people watch Game 7 against the Indians back in 2016, but incredible numbers for the Knicks. But how big football is and how long the jets have gone. And they're not bereft of celebrity fans either. The Jets. If the jets ever won a Super bowl, it would be. Maybe, maybe it would. Maybe the island of Manhattan wouldn't react the way they did to the Knicks. Because I think the Knicks are way bigger than the Jets. Like on the island, it sucked. Basketball is a city game and the Knicks play at the Garden. So there was a central place for everybody to kind of get together. But with how big Football, even though the Giants are bigger, that were. That were going on 60 years the last time the jets have won and they haven't been to A Super Bowl. They didn't go back to a Super Bowl. At least the Knicks went to the finals in 94. They went to the finals in 99. It would be big. Let's go to Mark in the car. You're on espn.

[Peter Rosenberg]

New York.

[Caller or Guest]

What's up, guys? Love your show.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks, buddy.

[Caller or Guest]

You guys kick the other guys on the wfan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I totally agree.

[Don Hahn]

We're trying.

[Caller or Guest]

Just wanted to make a. Yeah, yeah, you guys are great. I just wanted to make a point on the refer on the reffing. I just wanted. I know I'm late, but I just wanted to wait for the celebration and then after, you know, talk about the wrestling in the NBA. I feel like the referee in the NBA, the beginning, they. The referees let them play much more physical. And then towards the end of the series, they got much tighter. I wanted them. I always wonder, why didn't the NBA ever let them make, make. Make one crew for each series?

[Don Hahn]

Well, because.

[Caller or Guest]

And then that crew. Because every crew at the end of the day rest. Some people let more physical, some people ref less physical, you know, and then to this way, the player just got more used to the rest.

[Don Hahn]

It's been a conversation. We had the conversation during the finals of why can't you just have a uniform, the same officials for every game? And apparently the negative of that players have told me this in hockey too, is that now the bias can come in. Like, what if you end up getting a refereeing crew that you had a losing record against during the regular season or for just whatever reason your style was kind of against the way they officiate and then they don't change. I think they want to change it up. So that style doesn't be the reason why a team loses or wins a series. But I get where you're at, man. It kind of makes a little sense that maybe if you just kept it uniform, but apparently in all the sports, they feel like that that's a bad idea. Ryan in Houston. You're on espn, New York.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Hey, guys, New Yorker living in Houston for the last 20 years. I chime in real quick, the expansion. I'm a Ranger fan. Houston makes more sense. I know you mentioned the three teams already here, but you've got an owner in the Rockets, owner for Tita who wants it.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

They've got the stadium that they could play in for, you know, a couple of years, but you've got a huge Canadian population down here that's in the oil and gas business. Okay. I didn't realize you've got a ton of train. You've got a ton of transplants from the Midwest and the Northeast. My entire street is, you know, people who grew up in hockey towns or near hockey towns. Now if you go to a game in Houston in a couple years, you're gonna. It's gonna be like going to a game in Vegas where half the stadium is gonna be the visiting team.

[Don Hahn]

But I just.

[Caller or Guest]

It makes more sense in Houston. Everybody who's moved to Austin that's grown that city, the population has outpaced the infrastructure. It's a complete mess traffic wise. And everybody's from out west. And I just don't think you're gonna get the fan base there from that West Coast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It has gotten weird.

[Don Hahn]

It is interesting what you say, Ryan, and I would bet Houston would get it over Austin just based on some of the things that Gary Bettman was saying. I always felt like Houston would be a destination for sure. And then I guess the next expansion to even things up would be in the east, whether it be Quebec City or something like that. But I think Houston's going to end up becoming a four sports town. And why not? If they're in the top 10 population and you're talking about how many Canadians are there and Northeasterners that live in Houston right now. Makes perfect sense. Great sports town. Never been to Austin, but Houston seems to me based on everything you said and the size of the city, probably makes the most sense.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how to

[Podcast Announcer]

Sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

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