Hour 3: Most Irrelevant Franchises

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast

Episode: Hour 3 - Most Irrelevant Franchises

Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, Don La Greca
Theme: Which teams in the four major North American leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL) are the most irrelevant—not necessarily the worst, but the most absent from the wider sports consciousness?

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into a lively debate: “Which franchises are the most irrelevant in each of the four major sports leagues?” The hosts clarify that “irrelevance” does not mean a team is unimportant to its own market, but rather which organizations are most likely to be forgotten by the broader sports world. They move league by league, armed with stats, personal stories, and plenty of sarcastic wit, exploring why some teams simply don’t resonate or register outside their core fanbases.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining "Irrelevance" in Sports Franchises

• Irrelevance here isn’t market size or being terrible, but being “out of the national consciousness.”
• Local importance is acknowledged, but the true test: “Can you name anyone? Do you even remember they have a team?”
  • Alan Hahn: “Every team has a relevance in market. But when you talk about just in sports consciousness, is there a team that it’s like, ‘I forgot they even have a team.’” [00:44]

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NHL: Contenders for Irrelevancy

• Ottawa Senators get early mention.
  • Peter Rosenberg: “The Ottawa Senators are a tough team when it comes to relevance in anyone’s life.” [02:54]
  • Hosts note that playing in a Stanley Cup Final gives a club at least some historical imprint.
• Columbus Blue Jackets are floated (per Bill Simmons), but Don La Greca finds counterexamples.
• Winnipeg Jets get consensus:
  • Don La Greca: “Most people couldn’t find Winnipeg on a map, you know… Even in Canada, it’s Buffalo. Like, it’s Winnipeg.” [14:40]
  • Alan Hahn: “When did you or Don bring up Winnipeg? The minute you said Winnipeg, I’m like, ‘How did I forget Winnipeg?’ Which is because you forgot. Exactly.” [16:58-17:11]
• Callers later bring up Calgary Flames as another candidate.

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NBA: The Least Noteworthy Franchises

• Charlotte Hornets (current iteration):
  • Alan Hahn’s pick: “My choice is the Charlotte Hornets… They were owned by Michael Jordan and they still couldn’t get people in the building.” [06:18]
  • Don La Greca: “I’ve called games in Charlotte where the home team had the ball and the crowd was chanting defense… How irrelevant can you possibly be?" [06:33]
  • Caller testimony: “It is the worst vibe that you can ever have for a professional sporting event.” [29:24]
• Sacramento Kings are discussed but pushed back due to those early-2000s teams and notable players.
• Washington Wizards: Noted for a lack of national games since the “John Wall era.” Yes, they once had Michael Jordan, but...
• Brooklyn Nets: Don makes the case that being a second team in a big market can increase irrelevance:
  • Don La Greca: “I think sometimes being in New York can make you even more irrelevant because you’re getting the other teams in New York.” [18:57]
  • Alan Hahn: “How many people outside of New York know the Islanders exist?” [18:32]
• Memphis Grizzlies (old Vancouver version), New Orleans Pelicans get honorable mentions, but recent stars and moments keep them out of the bottom.

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NFL: The Trickiest Category

• Jacksonville Jaguars: Often cited by Don and Alan as the front-runner:
  • Don La Greca: “It’s Jacksonville… Not a big market… They’ve never been to a Super Bowl.” [09:02]
  • Alan Hahn: “The Jaguars often do feel like NFL Jays, as you would say… Like, they don’t feel like they’re… What history do they have that draws you in?” [09:48]
• Carolina Panthers, Houston Texans: Expansion status brings them up, but Carolina has played in Super Bowls and produced some memorable stars (Cam Newton, Steve Smith); Houston is “neck and neck” with Jacksonville for recent irrelevance.
• Arizona Cardinals: Caller Heather notes, “I don’t think I know a single person who is an Arizona Cardinals fan.” [32:49]
• LA Chargers: In L.A., “they’re probably the fifth most popular team” behind Raiders, USC, UCLA, and Rams. [33:55-34:09]

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MLB: Forgotten in the National Eye

• Tampa Bay Rays: Multiple hosts converge here.
  • Alan Hahn: “How could it not be the Rays?” [17:31]
  • Peter Rosenberg: "Even when they dominate the division… might be 4,503 in the stands… It’s nothing.” [17:45]
  • The stadium (Tropicana Field) atmosphere is panned as “very bizarre.”
• Miami Marlins: Noted for World Series wins but little lasting emotional impact.
• Oakland/Las Vegas A's: Currently irrelevant but once a dynasty—nostalgia could revive them.
• Texas Rangers: Don: “Where do you put the Texas Rangers? I know they played in a couple of World Series, but when you think of their history…” [10:53]
• Colorado Rockies (caller): “You see Rockies on the schedule, absolutely no movement there.” [35:54]
• Milwaukee Brewers, LA Angels/Anaheim Angels named by later callers.

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The Importance of Market and History

• Even being in a big market doesn’t guarantee relevance (“Nets, Devils”).
• Don La Greca: “Even in this… being in New York doesn’t automatically make you relevant.”
• Green Bay Packers used as the flip-side: smallest market, huge relevance—shows how history, tradition, and fan passion can overcome market size. [43:10–43:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Ottawa Senators’ star power:
  • Peter Rosenberg: “Who’s the biggest player in the history of the team? Ron Francis?” [03:19]
  • Don La Greca: “No, probably Daniel Alfredsson.” [03:24]
• On the Charlotte Hornets’ ineptitude:
  • Alan Hahn: “The home team had the ball and they were chanting defense. Like, how irrelevant can you possibly be.” [06:33]
• On Jacksonville:
  • Don La Greca: “They play more… they play two home games in Europe every year.” [09:04]
  • Alan Hahn: “When they get good again, will it blow back up again because of the nostalgia and the history and all that stuff?” [10:43]
• On Winnipeg’s obscurity:
  • Don La Greca: “They made Winnipeg because Canada was jealous that the United States had Buffalo.” [15:00]
  • Alan Hahn: “When did you or Don bring up Winnipeg? … How did I forget Winnipeg? Which is because you forgot. Exactly.” [16:58-17:11]
• Caller on Charlotte atmosphere:
  • Caller Jay: “You could actually pick up a date inside of Spectrum Center whenever during a game because there’s no one there.” [29:34]

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League-by-League “Most Irrelevant” Consensus

NHL

• Consensus: Winnipeg Jets (with strong cases for Ottawa, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Columbus)

NBA

• Consensus: Charlotte Hornets (modern era/Bobcats), with shouts for Wizards and Nets

NFL

• Consensus: Jacksonville Jaguars (Carolina Panthers, Houston Texans, Arizona Cardinals, LA Chargers as competition)

MLB

• Consensus: Tampa Bay Rays (Marlins, A’s, Rangers, Rockies, Brewers also cited)

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Meta-Discussion: Why Are There So Few Truly Irrelevant Teams?

• Don La Greca: “We really can’t come up with an irrelevant NFL franchise. Let’s be honest, we can say the least relevant, but they’re all relevant because it’s the NFL… That just shows you how relevant sports are.” [40:19]
• Alan Hahn: “There’s got to be a handful of markets that get almost like 0.1% appearance on national games per year in all the sports.” [42:15]
• Don La Greca: “Sports is in a pretty good spot. Truly irrelevant franchises can be counted on one hand out of 124 teams.” [41:20]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:44] — Introduction and framing the irrelevance debate
• [02:54] — Ottawa Senators as a candidate
• [04:21] — Sacramento Kings and NBA historical discussion
• [06:18] — Charlotte Hornets, NBA irrelevance, crowd anecdotes
• [09:02] — Jacksonville Jaguars and NFL irrelevance
• [14:40] — Winnipeg Jets, NHL “forgotten franchise”
• [17:31] — Tampa Bay Rays, MLB attendance
• [24:30] — Do big markets guarantee relevance? New York Nets, Devils
• [29:24] — Caller confirms Charlotte Hornets “vibe” (or lack thereof)
• [32:49] — Arizona Cardinals: Does anyone care?
• [33:55-34:09] — LA Chargers: Fifth most popular LA team
• [35:44] — Colorado Rockies as a forgotten MLB team
• [40:19] — Can any team be truly irrelevant in the NFL?
• [43:10] — Green Bay Packers: The counterargument to market irrelevance

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Conclusion

Despite a few clear contenders, the hosts agree that true irrelevance is rare in North American sports: so many teams are engrained in their communities or have history, and the sheer popularity of the major leagues ensures most franchises see their moments in the spotlight. Yet, as their laughs, jabs, and anecdotes reveal, some clubs do drift perilously close to the edge of national consciousness—no matter how many roster moves, rebrands, or playoff upsets they attempt!

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For quick reference:

• NHL: Winnipeg Jets
• NBA: Charlotte Hornets
• NFL: Jacksonville Jaguars
• MLB: Tampa Bay Rays

“We really can’t come up with an irrelevant NFL franchise. Let’s be honest, we can say the least relevant, but they’re all relevant because it’s the NFL.”
— Don La Greca [40:19]

Transcript

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[Alan Hahn]

In the big city with Don Lagreca and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan Hahn. 800-919-3776 of course, is the number you have got to be part of the conversation we have coming up. There's not a lot going on tonight. There's just, we do have the Knicks though, playing in Dallas against the Mavericks. There's Jalen Brunson, questionable. I'll look up and see if they've updated anything yet, but that's where he was this morning. And so is there a possibility we could see him on the court tonight playing against his former team? The Knicks would love to have that boost back in their lineup as they continue their road trip. That game's a 9:30 start. It's on ESPN, but we have it on MSG as well, everybody. So if you want to watch the local broadcast, we have it for you starting at 9. Full coverage of course here on 8:80am also starts at 9 right after Dan Grasse. But we saw something floating around social media that became a topic conversation among everybody here when I walked in. And I know we had it on our call today, Don, so I know you're aware of where we're going here, but I mentioned it earlier in the show. But let's just reset it for everybody listening and everybody listening just kind of like just start to consider your answer to this question. If we're using the four major sports, NHL, NBA, mlb, NFL, can you right now, top of your head, the most irrelevant of all franchises in those four leagues. When I say irrelevant, not necessarily in market because every team has a relevance in market. But when you talk about like just in, in sports consciousness, is there a team that it's like I forgot they even have a team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is it, is it unfair to include like the Canadian teams? Not Just Canadian teams, like the bottom third of the NHL, period.

[Alan Hahn]

No, because you could just name, like, franchise.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know, but you could still name a handful of them that outside of their market in America in particular, don't feel like they're relevant.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I think it's. It's. It's everyone's perception.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't mean that disrespectful. What's your definition of right, Like.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, give me an answer then right off top of your head. Peter, since you're the first one to speak up, if you have one that came to mind, what is it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, we talked about this before, you know, relevance. The Ottawa Senators are a tough team when it comes to relevance in anyone's life.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, honestly, outside of skating on the redo Canal, is there anything else about Ottawa that you, you go, oh, yeah, I know that's the capital of Canada. That's. You know what I mean? Like, by the way, people outside, who's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The big and who's the biggest player in the history of the team? Ron Francis?

[Alan Hahn]

Alexa Yashin?

[Don La Greca]

No, probably Daniel Alfredson.

[Alan Hahn]

Alfie.

[Don La Greca]

Now, see, that's why. But here's what Ottawa, to me, can't be, because they did play in a Stanley cup final. So that does make you a part of history that you played in a final. And you've got a guy, Daniel Albertson, who spent, you know, mostly his entire career with the Ottawa Senators, and he's in the hall of Fame.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But hold on.

[Don La Greca]

They're still irrelevant. I hear what you're saying, right, because that's.

[Alan Hahn]

But in relation to everyone else is the point. Because obviously in that city, there's a relevance to them, and we're not taking that away. But when you're talking about grand scheme, who. Look, you're power ranking things. Somebody's got to be at the bottom, right? So, all right, you said Ottawa. You. You have them. Don, do you have a team?

[Don La Greca]

You know, for me now, like, I'll probably skew away from the NHL because it's hard for me to think of. It's all right, I'm.

[Alan Hahn]

Gonna.

[Don La Greca]

So it's going to be biased, but for me, as a. A sports fan, it's hard to be less irrelevant than the Sacramento Kings. I mean, they went to the conference final in my lifetime, and I know they won a championship in a previous iteration in a different city with a different name. But since going to Sacramento, can you. Who are their top five players? Like, to me, as a sports fan, that conference finally should have beat the Lakers. What year was that in 2000, right around there, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes, it was.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Like 2004, 2002, something like earlier.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, even that is over 20 years ago, like to Meakovic years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's, but, but, but the thing is, and that's why I think this would be my pushback. There's a multi year period where they're scoring 130.

[Alan Hahn]

They were one of the best teams in the league.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And when they were on tv, I went, yes, they were fun to watch. I want to watch Bibby. I want to watch Bobby Jackson, I want to watch Soyakovic. Don't forget C. Webb. You talked about a Hall of Famer. C. Webb, White Chocolate, all time great player. White Chocolate was a really beloved player.

[Don La Greca]

But all their players, D. Vods, Vladi.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Was a big player.

[Don La Greca]

They all went. They were all relevant. And other places besides Sacramento.

[Alan Hahn]

I think Chris Weber's known for Sacramento, wouldn't you say?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Number one.

[Don La Greca]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not the Wizards and Bibby were a thing. Yeah, yeah.

[Don La Greca]

This is what makes it interesting. Such an interesting conversation is because depending on what your favorite sports are, you'll always find some relevancy. Because I'm a hockey guy, Alan's a hockey guy. I'll find relevancy with every NHL franchise. Now, Bill Simmons said the Columbus Blue Jackets, but I'd push back and say, you know, they had John Tortorella as their head coach. They had Rick Nash, like so. Because I'm close to it, I'll find something relevant. I guess the found something relevant with Sacramento. We talked about the Charlotte Hornets, but that was Grandmama's team. Did that make them relevant?

[Alan Hahn]

No, Don, that's not the same team. See, this is where I'll tell you, because that's my choice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a different franchise.

[Alan Hahn]

My choice is the Charlotte Hornets.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Bobcats. Hornets.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, the Bobcats. That's what they are now. They were owned by Michael Jordan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

And they still couldn't get people in the building. Michael sat on the bench. Nobody went to games there.

[Don La Greca]

Don.

[Alan Hahn]

I was. I've. I've called games in Charlotte where the crowd. When the Knicks had the ball. When the Knicks were on defense, the crowd was chanting defense. The home team had the ball and they were chanting defense. Like how irrelevant can you possibly be.

[Don La Greca]

When your crowd is cheering against the history? So they don't take any of the. Well, they did.

[Alan Hahn]

They did this weird thing. So the. So the original Hornets moved to New Orleans. That's the Chris Paul New Orleans Hornets. Then they changed the Pelicans. But then when the Bobcats came in. They were a franchise. They were an expansion. Right. And then when they changed the name to Hornets because the New Orleans got rid of Hornets and made a Pelican. So Hornets was available. They took it back. Then they took all the signage back, all the logos, everything. And the league allowed there to be that transfer of history and logos. But the Larry Johnson that. Because that Hornets team, LJ Zo, Jr. Reed, like that. Those teams, they played in a different arena. 20,000 people sold it out every night. Loudest building in the league. They were really good. They were hot. For whatever reason, the new iteration never took. And there are years where you're like, oh, that's right. There's a team there. You have no idea.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely fallen on hard times. But Peter could answer this better than anybody from a logo merch standpoint. They're. They're pretty high. They were that hornet logo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Big 90s was big. It died off. It was big. And you know. And listen, I guess. I guess it's depending what metric you use. They won a championship, had hall of Fame players. But I mean, the Bullets Wizards are.

[Alan Hahn]

That's becoming.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's bad.

[Don La Greca]

It's getting really irrelevant since they changed.

[Alan Hahn]

Do you think since they changed the Wizards, did it really disappear?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And that included also having Jordan Michael.

[Alan Hahn]

Played on the team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you.

[Don La Greca]

You.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But when was the last time the Wizards got an ESPN or TNT game?

[Alan Hahn]

They don't get John Wall era.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, maybe they got a couple then, but eight years.

[Don La Greca]

I guess it's all in the way you ask it. Like, it feels like a top five at this point. Like. But there is a history there. Who's Wes Unsell played?

[Alan Hahn]

I get right there won a championship.

[Don La Greca]

You want to go there?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's over. But that's older than me.

[Alan Hahn]

Give me an NFL team. Who is the most. This is the hardest one to do.

[Don La Greca]

It's Jacksonville.

[Alan Hahn]

You think it's Jacksonville?

[Don La Greca]

Well, it asked.

[Alan Hahn]

They play more there. They played. They played two home games in Europe every year.

[Don La Greca]

And there's a reason for that. It's not even a significant. No offense to the people of Jacksonville.

[Alan Hahn]

It's not even.

[Don La Greca]

That's not a big market. They had a Super bowl there and said they'll never do it again because the building was too small. And everybody complained there was nothing to do.

[Alan Hahn]

Nothing to do.

[Don La Greca]

They've gone to what, three championship games, two under Tom Coughlin. Then they had that recent run where they lost to the Steelers. But they have never been to a Super Bowl.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I Think the Panthers are right there.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, Panthers at least been to a couple of Super Bowls, man. It's hard to be irrelevant. You're playing in a big game. Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I get it. But the. But the Jaguars have more recently been right on the doorstep and they're competitive right now, but it does feel they're in the playoffs right now. They're often in the playoffs.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm kind of with Don in a sense that the Jaguars often do feel like NFL Jays, as you would say. Like this, the stadium, the market, everything about them. It's sort of like they're, they're an extra. Like just throw in team. Like they don't feel like there's. What history are they, what do they have that draws you in?

[Don La Greca]

But you know what I mean? That's good. Like when you talk about great players, Mark Brunel, you're going to bring Fred Taylor. Fred Taylor, you're going to bring up, you know, Natron Means. Okay, again, it's not now listening.

[Alan Hahn]

People can't name those names.

[Don La Greca]

But they have been, they've been, they've been around for over 25 years. So there's a generation of fans that, you know, the reason I won't go with Wizards is the same reason why I wouldn't go with the Oakland A's or Vegas A's. Like right now they're irrelevant. They're playing in a minor league park. But once upon a time, they won three straight World Series. They've littered with hall of Fame.

[Alan Hahn]

They get good. You know, let's judge it like this. When they get good again, will it blow back up again because of the nostalgia and the history and all that stuff. And the A's are a great example of it.

[Don La Greca]

Now I'm going to give you a team that's going to blow you away and you're going to immediately want to bite back. But think about it. When you think of baseball irrelevancy, where do you put the Texas Rangers? I know they played in a couple of World Series, but when you think of their history, you think of their ballpark, especially where they played before the new one and even the new one outside of Nolan Ryan and Pudge for the, for the 50 plus years, Palmeira.

[Peter Rosenberg]

1, Juan Gonzalez, George, George W. Bush.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, but you're, but you're right though.

[Don La Greca]

You're right, you know, for as long as they've been around a couple of World Series, even, even the most recent World Series team like Ron Washington comes to mind before, like a lot of players. But you know what I'M saying, like it's, it's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But they're not at the top, though.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, when Don said bite back, I thought he was doing a segue into it, you know?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, you thought.

[Alan Hahn]

I thought. You sing the song.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You never know where he's at these days.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

Oh, no.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Don't go to the light, Don.

[Don La Greca]

No. Look at this.

[Alan Hahn]

But you're. He's glowing, though.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Don Almighty, as he's being known as the chat now. He is. He is above us. He is God. He with the angels.

[Don La Greca]

Listen, I gotta tell you, you gotta.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Get on the YouTube Kids, ESPN New York.

[Don La Greca]

The reason. Listen, the reason it looks the way that it does is because I dragged everything out to the deck, Right?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Here in beautiful Fort Lauderdale. But I just ran out of outlets and I don't have any way to charge the camera. So I'm flipping between my iPad and the phone and then the phone gives this angle. But, you know, I think it's more important actually be on the air. All right, so you go through the top. All right. So each. So would. Would we all agree? Jacksonville in the NFL?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm not quite willing to do it.

[Don La Greca]

Where would you go if not Jacksonville? You want Carolina?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I. I really think care in recent years, they're not in the playoffs. Who's their greatest player?

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Steve Smith, senior.

[Don La Greca]

How about totality Luke Kukley. All right, but you're. But you released that. You can name more. Cam Newton's bigger than anybody that's ever played for the Giants.

[Alan Hahn]

That's because of. That's affirmative. No, it's a Firm.

[Don La Greca]

All right.

[Alan Hahn]

But he was the number one pick and he was mvp and he had a great season.

[Don La Greca]

Steve Smith. I mean, I mean, listen, Jake Delome. I'm kidding.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, I guess you're right.

[Don La Greca]

You played in two Super Bowls. No, you can't.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, question.

[Don La Greca]

You played in two Super Bowls.

[Alan Hahn]

Houston Texans.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Okay, already that's a winner. Texans are more or more relevant than Jacksonville.

[Don La Greca]

Are we making it unfair? Because these are expansion.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It doesn't matter.

[Don La Greca]

History.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, well, the question isn't whether Columbus Blue Jackets are an expansion team, but.

[Don La Greca]

That'S why if we. If we had this conversation and we took out, like you say, over the last 30 years, so that all. It would be a much interest. More interesting conversation because it's easy to just throw out. Well, of course, Columbus.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What they're new.

[Alan Hahn]

They have.

[Don La Greca]

They haven't been around long enough. Right. Utah Mammoth, of course, are going to be there because they're. Even when they're around.

[Alan Hahn]

When they were the Coyotes, they. They were irrelevant.

[Don La Greca]

I'm going to throw. It hurts me because I like this team.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Don La Greca]

But I think the NHL team has to be the Winnipeg Jets. Most people couldn't find Winnipeg on a map, you know. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

How did I not think of the Winnipeg. And it's not about the franchise and the town because you've been there. Right. They're a good team. And their fan base, that place is filled every night.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, it's a. But. But again, it's Winnipeg.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

So I mean, the. Howie Rose has the best line about Winnipeg. He's like, they made Winnipeg because Canada was jealous of that. The United States had Buffalo. All right. So even in Canada, it's Buffalo like it's Winnipeg.

[Alan Hahn]

So when you see.

[Caller Anthony]

I love.

[Don La Greca]

I love the town. I love it there. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just being honest.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, when you.

[Don La Greca]

Most people couldn't name anybody, it's ever even. And they merged with the. The franchise before because they moved to Arizona and they end up getting back that franchises stuff. So they have the history. So Dale Howard, Chuck's number still, you know, Solani, all that. They've had some really good player, but honestly, who was their goalie?

[Alan Hahn]

They had a great goalie for years. The old Winnipeg Jets. Who was it?

[Don La Greca]

Old Winnipeg Jets.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, the previous iteration. They had a goal. He was good. Never mind. That's.

[Don La Greca]

Well, they. Well, the big. The big one was Nikolai Hobby Boland before he ended up going to Tampa.

[Alan Hahn]

No, that's not what I was thinking.

[Don La Greca]

Not Nikolai Hobby Bolland. It was either way, proven the point.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's get. I think the best way to come up with this solution, and we have calls coming in on this. All right, the best way to come up with this solution is to say it's not about us. We're guys who pay attention to sports every day, right? So you know Jacksonville, you know Winnipeg. We know these because you have to think from a, from a basic human standpoint, a fan who'd like people who like sports but aren't as into it, and they look at the Ranger schedule and they go, who's in Winnipeg?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or who. Wait, who's a Monmouth?

[Alan Hahn]

They play Buffalo. Buffalo. Who's in Buffalo? Like that's what you're wondering. Wait, Charlotte, I thought they didn't have a team anymore. Like that's what you're wondering. You need that perspective. But I really is the real thing about irrelevant.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can I push back, though?

[Alan Hahn]

What's that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would say if you go to the more general fan like you're describing, there's so many teams that'll be tied.

[Alan Hahn]

That they just don't really know any of them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Whereas us, we're all big sports fans, but we also all are humans with gaps in each sport.

[Alan Hahn]

Here's a great example. Now is when, when did you or Don bring up Winnipeg? The minute you said Winnipeg, I'm like, how did I forget Winnipeg? Which is because you forgot. Exactly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's Winnipeg. That means it's Winnipeg.

[Alan Hahn]

That means it's Winnipeg.

[Don La Greca]

Listen, it pains me because I, I really love, I love that I can't even call it a city, It's a town. But I, I, I love everything about the Winnipeg.

[Alan Hahn]

How could you not?

[Don La Greca]

But, but, but the reality is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, that's it.

[Don La Greca]

And the one I think is baseball, man. Tough one's. Baseball.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, the, the, the, the Rays currently play in their rivals minor league stadium.

[Alan Hahn]

How could it not be the Rays?

[Peter Rosenberg]

They, they've, they've, they've averaged, even when they dominate the division, even when they're great.

[Alan Hahn]

20,000. Do they, they don't even get 20,000. That's when the Yankees come.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. No, on a regular, it might be 4503. I mean, it's nothing.

[Alan Hahn]

It's true.

[Don La Greca]

But they did develop a rivalry with the Yankees. Wade Boggs played there. They did go to a World.

[Alan Hahn]

Marlins. Marlins.

[Don La Greca]

One World Series.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And they feel like they're off.

[Alan Hahn]

I know, but they feel like they're off the map.

[Don La Greca]

We're not talking about insignificant now, but I'm like, people, people are going to remember the Florida Marlins, slash, Miami Marlins. Because.

[Alan Hahn]

For bad things. All right, let's, let's, let's get some calls on this. We got them stacked up and ready to go. 800 now. 3, 7, 7, 6. I think this is such a fun conversation. One thing we could all agree on, none of the New York teams can be irrelevant. You can't. You're in New York.

[Don La Greca]

I know what hurts you and that's weak.

[Alan Hahn]

Would you say, all right, would you say the Islanders or Devils then would be that like I, I honestly. How many people outside of New York know the Islanders exist?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, hold on. The Islanders had a dynasty recently.

[Alan Hahn]

They did, but they haven't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The jets are the team we should be having the conversation about.

[Alan Hahn]

Is it relevant if you don't live.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here and you think about the jets.

[Don La Greca]

There'S a New York, there's a New York team that you're missing that we'll talk about when we get back. I think sometimes being in New York can make you even more irrelevant because you're getting the other teams in New York.

[Alan Hahn]

I feel I'm, I'm ashamed that I'm not thinking it, but it just hit me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Announcer]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

So it's already starting, Peter. The texts are coming from my daughters about next Wednesday. They're planning the day they want to come in to Manhattan and, you know, have the day before a holiday kind of day.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And so this, a lengthy text that it was sent to me included all these activities they want to do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right.

[Alan Hahn]

And activities. Yeah. Like, you know, visit certain places. And I'm like, I'm working during that time, like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But. But isn't your wife going too?

[Alan Hahn]

No, the girls are coming and. And Stephanie's with Kelly, so it's just. It's Emma and Gracie.

[Peter Rosenberg]

My oldest is Emma, but Emma can.

[Commercial Voice]

Take care, of course.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, no, that's not what I'm saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

Is like they're all over Manhattan and it's like telling me about the things that I'm going to do.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you're not able to do anything. I'm not able to do this now.

[Alan Hahn]

So I'm about to ruin their day with this text that I'm gonna reply.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To, but are your wife.

[Alan Hahn]

Dad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Are your wife and Callie coming in later?

[Alan Hahn]

No. No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So it's just you and the girls?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, then my choice that I gave you earlier is great. It's even better than I thought.

[Alan Hahn]

Is it? Gracie looked at the menu and was like, freaked her out. She's not a big sushi fan. Emma is, though. Emma.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So here's the thing, though. I will say this. There are items on that menu that are not very sushi.

[Don La Greca]

Ish.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, you can do sushi.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, dude, you can do their. Their rock shrimp tempura. She's gonna love it. She's not gonna be fishy or scary or.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it's like a fun vibe. Great hip hop. Lot of like 90s hip hop music playing there.

[Don La Greca]

All right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sexy, dim lit fun.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, your kids will think they're doing something cool.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, even. Even with you and your quarter zip.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, this is. I'm rocking this. I mean, what I actually was thinking maybe I'll wear this on msg.

[Don La Greca]

You should show me something, by the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The kids would appreciate it.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, they would.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You should have seen Alexa tea.

[Alan Hahn]

I get a little match.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah, that'd be so funny. The match out.

[Alan Hahn]

You.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You should have seen Alan's face, though. And when. When John Winthrop jumps in, he goes. I think it's a great look at that point. Alan goes, oh, well, I'm all wet here.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that was a. That was a. I'm second guessing this. We're not second guessing this topic. It is, of course, right. The most relevant of the four major sports franchises. We've been kicking around some. We have calls on it. And Don, you said of one New York team. Because I said no New York team. Could be irrelevant because you're in the biggest market. It's impossible to be irrelevant when you're in this market. And you said, not so fast.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, because it's hard to say that there aren't going to be people outside of New York and even in New York that believe that the Nets are irrelevant.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, wow.

[Don La Greca]

They haven't won a championship since, you know, they came from the aba. All right. They don't have, like a laundry list of great, great players.

[Alan Hahn]

They did go to two finals.

[Don La Greca]

They did go to two finals and I was at them, you know, because I covered them for espn and I was actually on the court when the Lakers won. I got a championship hat. They thought I was like one of the players when I was walking off the court. It was weird.

[Alan Hahn]

What were you Dodge. Were you setting picks? What position did you play?

[Don La Greca]

No, I just happened to. They had us, you know, when they put the ropes up. So you. For the camera people and everything. And I just. My credential gave me access to be there.

[Alan Hahn]

Nice.

[Don La Greca]

And I remember me was a big Laker fan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Alice, is this cool?

[Don La Greca]

I. And listen, I like them. And again, it pains me if I'm just saying that it's been a long time since they won. They don't have a. As you know, that big of a fan base. So even when they had the Big three, it was talked about a lot. But again, we've had how many conversations? The gap between the Knicks and the Nets are bigger than any other gap of among the locals. Like you said with the islanders, they won four straight Stanley Cups, tons of 40 years ago. Relevant. No, they obviously had spans of irrelevancy.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don La Greca]

But there are people that maybe they don't remember, but you look up the Islanders and you're going to have a rich history of great players and championships and hall of Famers. Right. You're just going to have that. But the history of the Nets, it's going to be a lot of negative. Right. It's going to be twice where they tried to have a dream team. It didn't work. How they sold off Dr. J. You know, it's. It's not a great history. The gap with the other local team is gargantuan.

[Alan Hahn]

I.

[Don La Greca]

To the point and I still will stand on the fact I get a lot of Brooklyn net fans that kill me for that. I think they would have been better off if they stayed in New Jersey.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. I still wonder now, they couldn't have gone to the Rock, right?

[Don La Greca]

Could they Played at the Rock and I think they did, you know, all right there attendance wise. So the devil's certainly got a bump going, you know, going.

[Alan Hahn]

So that's not like compromise. Like you can put a. Yeah, no, no, it's got a hockey rink, so of course you can put a court there and.

[Don La Greca]

And build it out. Scene. Hall plays there.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, Seton Hall. Oh, they. That's right. They do play.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. So no, that would have been an.

[Alan Hahn]

Obvious place to go and then nobody would have batted an eye. But they did. They wanted the Brooklyn brand. They Got. And to me, the branding and the logo and all that, that. That did make them relevant for a while because that just became popular around the country just because of Brooklyn, not because of the basketball team.

[Don La Greca]

But I. We have this conversation all the time. Again, I can't prove. Maybe. Maybe they're better off in Brooklyn. Brooklyn. But it definitely did not hit the way they thought it would.

[Alan Hahn]

It did in the. At the beginning, there was a little bump, and then it kind of. Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And a lot of it has to do with, you know, that they're, you know, not winning and a lot of things have happened. Listen, I would not put them on the list of irrelevant franchises we're talking about, but it's just an example of just being in New York doesn't automatically make you relevant.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And obviously the devil's in New Jersey. Clearly that's not New York. Even though it's not that far away. It's not New York. But again, there's a history of. Of. Of winning hall of Fame players and winning. That just gives you a little bit of bump of relevancy. Same with the Islanders.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, the Islanders were there until they got the arena. Because I'm telling you at the. I was there. I was. I was there night in and night out. That was that. They were almost an extinct franchise. They were that irrelevant where no one would. The old Coliseum before it got popular again because of nostalgia. And the team was good. There were years that building. It was.

[Don La Greca]

There was.

[Alan Hahn]

You could. You could yell across the ice to somebody on the other side in the stands, and you could have a conversation during a game.

[Don La Greca]

You know, they were betrayed by their owner and everything else. But the fact is they represent. Big shot is the 30 island deserves to be represented because of the population. Same with New Jersey. That's. That's my main reason why I think the Nets should have stayed in New Jersey because they live in something said, we can make this our own. They try to make Brooklyn their own. But that's still Nick territory. Right? That's still true. It's Brooklyn. But again, you're trying to change hearts and minds. New Jersey, you already had a history there. You had won there to a certain extent. But whatever. I. I wouldn't put them on the list. I guess Charlotte would be my NBA team too. I guess.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think it's the one.

[Don La Greca]

I mean, talk me out of Sacramento if they can't. If they're not.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. They got a new arena there. They got the beam. Like, there's a lot of stuff. There's a vibe there. When they put that arena downtown, that it certainly. How about this has changed, But Charlotte's arena is downtown and nobody here. Anthony is in Charlotte and he's calling in about the Hornets. Anthony, do I lie about the vibe about the Hornets in that city?

[Caller Jay]

It's the worst vibe that you can ever have for a professional sporting event.

[Caller Anthony]

It is.

[Caller Jay]

It is absolutely awful talking about yelling across to somebody else that's in the stadium.

[Don La Greca]

I mean.

[Caller Jay]

Yeah, you could literally connect with you. You could actually pick up a date inside of Spectrum center whenever during a game because there's. There's no one there.

[Don La Greca]

It's.

[Caller Jay]

Yeah, it's pretty bad. And Al and I know you've been to some games there, man.

[Kevin Clark]

It's.

[Caller Jay]

I get it. They did their reimagining or whatever for this year, but I still don't think it's anything special.

[Alan Hahn]

It's tough. Thank you, Anthony. It's like, again, this doesn't hate because I love going to Charlotte. And when you go down there, that's what you see is a lot of New Yorkers because the Knicks are there. But I've seen when the Celtics go there, it's a lot of Celtics fans. Like, if other stars come in, they come in to see them and they have some popular, like lamelo ball among young fans. He's huge, but it just is not resonating there.

[Don La Greca]

What about Memphis, the Grizzlies?

[Alan Hahn]

So they have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Jacob's big on the Grizzlies, but I feel like. I feel like they've had too many moments with Ja also.

[Alan Hahn]

It's. You know, that's a. That's a team that everybody knows about now, again, it is bizarre. They move from Vancouver. That's when they were irrelevant in Vancouver.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, oh, Vancouver. Bryant Reeves didn't work.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. They came to Memphis. They had a lot of win. They won a lot with different eras of teams. Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And different players and different sort of marquee players and a grid. They had a style. They had a gritty style that.

[Alan Hahn]

The grit and grind era. Then they had jaw come in as well.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I've been down there. Like, there's a vibe. There is a vibe there. I'm not saying that.

[Alan Hahn]

Such a good small town and be like, again, Beale street is literally a block.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's.

[Alan Hahn]

It's like. It's 34th street to 33rd street and that's Beale Street. I can't that much. That's that big of an area. But after, like at night, it's just.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Just Unfortunate. The caller brought up the point about how dead Charlotte is like their most notable famous fan besides J. Cole, who occasionally go goes. Is the baby. Who's like the only. You could argue. Jacob. You could argue the baby is the only successfully canceled entertainer. He may be the only person where the canceling happened. And there was no bounce back. Literally cancel. No, he's gone.

[Don La Greca]

Like.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, we agree.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And he was like the main person they had courtside. So I think it's Charlotte Washington. And what was the other one we.

[Alan Hahn]

Said, well, it could be. It could be New Orleans. And because they get no one, I mean, they don't draw flies. It's bad.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but the Smoothie King center, we love smoothies.

[Alan Hahn]

We do love smoothies. And Smoothie King.

[Don La Greca]

Very Smoothie King. We agree on the Hornets in the NBA, Winnipeg jets in the NHL.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. NFL.

[Don La Greca]

Jackson.

[Alan Hahn]

Jackson fighting.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I still don't know. I think the Trevor Lawrence and the repeat guys, we make the joke. What's the joke we make about Jacksonville? That they're playing on that playoff Saturday and we don't care. But they're playing on playoff Saturday.

[Alan Hahn]

But.

[Don La Greca]

But who then? Who you gonna have if not Jacksonville?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. There has to be one.

[Don La Greca]

What's the most Carolina's played in? Two Super.

[Alan Hahn]

It has to be the most irrelevant of the NFL. Well, let's get some calls on this. Three, seven, seven, six. Hey, our good friend Heather Babbles, she has a suggestion for. What's up, Heather?

[Don La Greca]

What's up, fellas? How are you guys doing?

[Alan Hahn]

All right.

[Don La Greca]

Hi, Heather.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hi.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, so I have a thought.

[Don La Greca]

Football is my favorite sport. And I don't think I know a.

[Caller Jay]

Single person who is an Arizona Cardinals fan.

[Alan Hahn]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, sitting right in front of us and, you know, we can talk about going to the super bowl against Pittsburgh and Kurt Warner and they've had great players. Larry Fitzgerald.

[Alan Hahn]

Their stadiums used for more Super Bowls than they've played in.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And like, teams travel so well to Arizona. I mean, like, they notoriously, when the Redskins would play there, 20,000 Redskin fans. Like, they are literally a home field for other teams who can't see their team in home. It's not a bad. They're right there. With respect to Neil Lomax, they're right there.

[Don La Greca]

I would still go with Jacksonville. Arizona went to a Super Bowl. Almost won it with Kurt Warner. Again, I'm older, so I can go back to when they were in St. Louis and they weren't great then, but, you know, you had Hart and O.J. anderson and again, it's Close.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, here's one. Here's one.

[Don La Greca]

Go ahead.

[Alan Hahn]

We mentioned it earlier and our good friend Alex Monaco always says he's a recovering San Diego Chargers fan.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Chargers in la, they're home pit fans.

[Alan Hahn]

Like I've always said, the Chargers are probably the fifth most popular team in la. When you consider that the Raiders are number one still. Always will be.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Usc, usc, ucla, then probably the Rams.

[Don La Greca]

Well, they were.

[Alan Hahn]

That's a real thing. Ask anybody from la, they'll tell you. That's probably about the way it goes.

[Don La Greca]

They became irrelevant moving to la. I think they were way more relevant in San Diego.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, for sure.

[Don La Greca]

And you just get gobbled up. At least you know San Diego is a small market. But it was just the Chargers and the pod.

[Alan Hahn]

So they had.

[Don La Greca]

Yep. Chargers had. Even though they didn't win a championship, they. They gone to a Super bowl, played in some amazing games, some amazing players. And then who's their all time great?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Dan Fouts, Ladanian, Tomlinson.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, listen, they've got players. They just say you're seow.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean they've got their share of solid players, but now you just want.

[Don La Greca]

They go to laughs.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. They have Jim Harbaugh, they have Justin Herbert and it's in la. There's no way it resonates anywhere close to the other four teams, including a team that doesn't even play there anymore. The Raiders have a huge following still in la.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Antonio Gates was a stud. They had players. But you're right. Going to la. And I will say this though, I wonder. I'd like to get an update. Maybe Jonathan from LA or someone from LA will call us. I wonder if right now we could be in a period where the Rams are really becoming the team of la.

[Alan Hahn]

Starting to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Could they get that push where now the Raiders have been gone enough between. And they're bad between Oakland, Vegas being bad, Rams winning Super bowl being consistently good new building, stars gorgeous building. Like is it enough that the Rams have become the team of la?

[Alan Hahn]

I like that. Meanwhile, Dan and Savill's got a baseball team that we are overlooking for irrelevant. Dan, go ahead. You're up next.

[Caller Jay]

Hey guys. So you know you were talking about the Rays. I know there's a first baseball team that comes to, but I got to throw the Colorado Rockies in there.

[Alan Hahn]

Another expansion. Yeah, yeah.

[Don La Greca]

You know, expansion.

[Caller Jay]

You know, as you guys would say, you know, you see Rockies on the schedule, absolutely no movement there.

[Don La Greca]

No, Michael, within, you know, with.

[Caller Jay]

With interleague play now. I'm not even kidding.

[Don La Greca]

You Guys, I remember looking.

[Caller Jay]

I was looking at the schedule last year. I saw Rays and Rockies on the schedule. I said, that's not a real baseball game.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Like, you won't want to buy those tickets because when the Razor Rockies are on your schedule for a home game, are those tickets cheaper?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'll tell you, when you see Colorado, you see this.

[Alan Hahn]

No, Michael, catch.

[Don La Greca]

And certainly right now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I.

[Don La Greca]

And I was in Denver, you know, earlier in the hockey season and like, just. The Rockies don't even exist because the team is just so bad. But you know, Dante Bichette, Andres Galarraga.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, of course. Field.

[Don La Greca]

It's a legendary. The humidor is like. Yep. But, you know, hold on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What about.

[Don La Greca]

You really haven't had the baseball discussion?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because Anaheim again.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, Michael K. Oh, you mean that. Let's see. The. The Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles of California.

[Don La Greca]

But there was a time where the Angels, even though they didn't win a championship like back, you know, they were at Rod Carew playoff team that were really. It's got to be the Rays, I guess even though they've gone to a World Series, couple of them haven't won. Playing in a minor league stadium.

[Alan Hahn]

Nobody goes to games.

[Don La Greca]

They don't seem to.

[Alan Hahn]

They can't get a stadium. Nobody cares. Although I think they're on the verge of one. I think they are. Which would be great for them. But it's just interesting to says if they do get a new stadium and it's done the right way, will people go? Because Don like the Lightning from day one. They were supportive.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, I did.

[Alan Hahn]

So Tampa can't be a bad sports to the Bucks.

[Don La Greca]

Well, I didn't keep it, but the. My stat guy last night for the Devil's Lightning game gave me the attendance. I just didn't see how it was relevant to the broadcast. But I did take note. It was the 477th consecutive seller.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

They care.

[Don La Greca]

That's. That's over a decade.

[Alan Hahn]

But they don't go to a baseball game. Is it because that. Because that the trop was that pathetic? Like, you just. It wasn't where I've been. You've gone through the chop, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. And Don. Oh, but have you gone to a game? A baseball game? No, no, Don, you.

[Don La Greca]

No, I went to.

[Alan Hahn]

I've been to a couple of games there and it's. It really is. It's. It's a very bizarre feeling. You. Because even, like the noise doesn't feel like you're in a stadium. It feels like you're in like a busy airport. It's it's a very bizarre place to watch a baseball game. So maybe that's just all if it we'll find out if they finally get a new stadium if that's all it is. But nobody goes to games.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Don La Greca]

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[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Podcast Announcer]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, Don, you have something prophetic to tell us here?

[Don La Greca]

This has been a fascinating conversation. Seriously, I love it.

[Alan Hahn]

I think it's been fun.

[Don La Greca]

We really, we really can't come up with an irrelevant NFL franchise. Let's be honest, we can say the least relevant, but they're all relevant because it's the NFL and baseball to a certain extent, the same thing. It may not be as popular as it used to be, but it's still our national pastime. And we're looking at expansion teams that still found ways to get into the World Series, right? And still have Some relevancy and even hockey we can't with Winnipeg and we're arguing about, you know, Bill Simmons saying Columbus and basketball, maybe two or three teams. That just shows you how relevant sports are. Right. Because we're talking about how many teams? Like 120. I mean because it's what 32, 32, 30 and 30. So do the math real quick. Quick. 64 plus 60. Right. So it's what 124 professional franchises in the big four and we can maybe count on one hand irrelevant franchises. Doesn't that tell you that maybe sports is in a pretty good spot?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, well that's why it's a multi.

[Don La Greca]

Billion dollar business that even the irrelevant where they're still finding a way to make money.

[Alan Hahn]

But it is if you think, you know the best way to do this exercise is now that we have Netflix, Amazon, Peacock, NBC. Right. Obviously espn, abc, cbs. On the football side, if we, if we were able to do some type of analytics on. I'm sure there's a majority of markets that we see in all four major sports on these networks like the national game by TNT also as well with the hot with hockey. If you did that, there's got to be a handful of markets that get like almost like 0.1% appearance on national games per year in all the sports.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what I mean? Like that, that would, that would get. There's your definition of irrelevance is you're just, it's. You're not worth us because your rating just isn't going to be strong.

[Don La Greca]

But a lot of times in the case of, of like Winnipeg, it's a very good franchise. It's a really good team. Oh yeah, one franchise. It's just that they got zero national televised game. The only NHL team with zero. Why is that?

[Alan Hahn]

Because it's Winnipeg, it's in Canada and.

[Don La Greca]

It doesn't translate to an American audience. So that's obviously the disadvantage they're in. But a lot of times we talk about the irrelevancy of a franchise because of the market that it's in. It's so small that even though they might be well run and they win on occasion and they've got a die hard fan base. It's hard to go up against the New York's, the Boston's, The Chicago's, the LA's. It's really hard. That's why you know, Green Bay has to have a hundred year history to be relevant normally it's very difficult to have that tiny of a market or.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In that way, in that way, when you, when you break down the size of market and all those things, they may be the most relevant team in pro sports. Think about Green Bay, the size of that market and how impactful they are.

[Alan Hahn]

Per capita, probably the most most popular.

[Don La Greca]

Yep. You are literally getting nothing from like local, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, nothing.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's Milwaukee people and then.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, but it's the Milwaukee market right now.

[Don La Greca]

Just being in New York, being in la, you're going to get people to show up. You're going to get a number. Because how big your market. Well, how often is going to be a bunch of people that are going.

[Alan Hahn]

To watch what you're saying, Don, is how often in an NHL national broadcast do you take a market that doesn't have a big punch, but they're a good team so you play them against the Rangers, so you know you're going to get a number. Right. Like that's what you do.

[Don La Greca]

Without question. That's, that's why you see like the same four or five franchises all the time.

[Alan Hahn]

That's my point.

[Don La Greca]

They know we're going to get a number and a lot of it's because they're good. But sometimes just because, hey, like there was a lot of times they put the Blackhawks on national television. They do it now because of Conor Bedard, but before that they did it because it's Chicago and they've got huge fan base in Chicago. It's not bad putting the third biggest television market on national tv.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

And that's that. That kind of creates a bias because certainly in certain markets. But that's why I brought up the Nets. I don't think they necessarily get a bump for being in New York. I think it's actually a disadvantage to them. But even still in this we. I know Net fans and they're passionate, they love the team. So like I can't speak to the Bobcat to the Hornets, but, you know, it's just that the Nets are going up against the big bad Knicks. They're going up against the Yankees, the Giants, the Jets. It's, it's tough in the New York market, but there's still a sense of relevancy around all of these teams in some way, shape or form. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And on that point, we got a ton of calls on this too, which everybody wants to talk about. It's okay. But what you're saying there about the Nets, Frank in Highstown has a take. Go ahead, Frank.

[Caller Jay]

Yeah, I feel like your call screener was actually trolling me because I told him Three times it was Craig with a C. So you guys hear me?

[Don La Greca]

Hey, buddy. All good?

[Alan Hahn]

All good.

[Caller Jay]

So, yeah, I was going to support what Don was saying about the Nets being the most irrelevant franchise they are known in recent memory for all the things that they didn't do. The big three never came to fruition. Most known for, will Kyrie play? Will his vaccine status affect his clay? What if Kevin Durant's foot was one inch closer behind the three point line? Yeah, you know, will Ben Simmons be any good this year? And then every year it's, hey, will their draft pick be any good? So it's totally irrelevant. They, they never do anything good. They never give you anything to root for. And I'll, I'll leave you guys on that note.

[Alan Hahn]

Thank you, Frank.

[Don La Greca]

I mean, but, but still there they have fans, right? No, but like, listen, because I doing the Devil games. But like, you would throw the Devils like, what's New Jersey and they're not the Rangers. It's when we show up to a hotel, tons of people with devil jerseys, like, outside, you wouldn't think that, but it exists. Like, is it. People love sports and they, they gravitate to teams for whatever reason. Like, and, and I believe. I don't hold me. I think they've sold out every game at home this season.

[Alan Hahn]

They do. Well, attendance wise since they moved to the Rock.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. And, but, but I was like, with the Rangers, we would show up to a hotel and there'd be, you know, 50 people outside. Like it happens with all of these teams. Like, so it just shows you how healthy sports are. Because we could say there's too many teams and. But they all find a way to make money. They all find a way to stay in some way shape or form. Relevant. Crazy.

[Alan Hahn]

There was a time though, when I was traveling with the Islanders that they were flying southwest because they were cheap.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See, now that's something.

[Alan Hahn]

And while standing in line for an owner. Yes. And while standing in line where they were bankrupt. While standing in line, you know, they, back then it was. They gave you the card. So you had a card that said your A, whatever number. Or B, if you were in the group B, Whatever group. And so one of the players on this team had a group B. Oh, no. And he wanted to be in group A because he wanted a better seat. So he went up to someone in the A group and he introduced himself, tried to trade play for the New York Islanders.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, boy.

[Alan Hahn]

And I will autograph the card and give it to you if you'll exchange with me. And the guy's response was, who are you and who do you play for?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right, right. But that is so sad.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, that man, that's irrelevant.

[Don La Greca]

Now listen, Spano did go to jail, though. He wasn't wrong about his criminality.

[Alan Hahn]

Eventually. Then he came out and then he made a move.

[Don La Greca]

Well, they all come out eventually.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it was. It's an amazing story. Jay's in the Bronx. What's up, Jay? What do you got on Jay?

[Caller Anthony]

Hey, what's up, guys? Before my list, I just want to stand up for Charlotte Hornet on it for two reasons.

[Don La Greca]

Go ahead.

[Caller Anthony]

Grandmama was.

[Alan Hahn]

Was a very different version.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But that's the original version.

[Alan Hahn]

We were saying we're separated.

[Caller Anthony]

Okay, I digress. Then my quick list. And I'll defer to that. I thought Calgary Flames. I know nothing about the Calgary.

[Alan Hahn]

That's fair.

[Caller Anthony]

Arizona. I think they're a victim of being in a division with some really, you know, phenomenal, you know, legacy teams. Brooklyn Mets. I agree with all your callers. I say they're irrelevant. And the Milwaukee Brewers. That's my honest.

[Alan Hahn]

Brewers.

[Don La Greca]

You know, listen, the brewers have been a good team, but when you look at the history, one World Series appearance, you probably couldn't list Robin youn comes to mind Paul Molle.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I mean, listen.

[Don La Greca]

But not, Not a. Not a ton.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So those were big. Those were a big deal. 40 years ago.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

No, no, listen. And you know the Calgary Flames, again, I'm a hockey guy. That 89 flame team that won the cup is one of the great teams of all time.

[Alan Hahn]

I think they have one of the great logos.

[Don La Greca]

They have a great logo. You know, Theo Fleury, I think people know who he is. Joe New and dyke. I think Al McGinnis, they've. They, they had some really, really good player. But, hey, listen, it's all in the eye of the beholder, right? John Winthrop, our pinhead suit, mentioned the Flames, so.

[Alan Hahn]

Which is weird because that's the bigger city than Edmonton. Edmonton's like a map dot city. But they were just legacy franchise because of Gretzky. And now obviously.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's the thing, though. Whether you're in Calgary or Edmonton.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I guarantee you there's still an Amazon pickup location there.

[Don La Greca]

The box is frozen.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Amazon pickup's the ultimate convenience play. We all know Amazon's a part of your everyday life, but Amazon pickup takes it to the next level. We're all pressed on time. We're all on the go. I got 38 jobs. I got a baby. Got a lot happening, okay? A lot of irons in the fire. But Amazon lockers and counters are located everywhere. So if your life doesn't slow down, instead of worrying about time or schedule, you know your package is waiting for you. All right? So trust me, wherever you are, whatever you're trying to get, especially with the holiday season, Amazon pickup is going to take care of you. To give you the flexibility to grab what you need on the go. Like for me, between shows, all the baby naps, whatever, just grab your package. Just grab your package.

[Don La Greca]

Tight. I've heard to it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's simple. Well, that's even better that you prefer she grab your package. It's simple. You order online.

[Alan Hahn]

You got to just do it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you know what?

[Alan Hahn]

It's simple.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You order online at checkout. You just choose the pickup location that's most convenient. You get an email confirmation.

[Commercial Voice]

Shut up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They deserve better.

[Don La Greca]

They deserve better.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So what you do is you pick the location at checkout. You get an email confirmation when your package is ready to be grabbed, you get the instructions of how to get it. It's quick, secure, and always at no extra cost. Check it out for yourself. Go to Amazon.com pickup MVP to learn more. That's Amazon.com pickup absolute professional thanks for.

[Podcast Announcer]

Listening to the Don, Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the.

[Alan Hahn]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.

[Podcast Announcer]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 18, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers before you go.

[Commercial Voice]

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