Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast

Episode: Hour 3 - Most Irrelevant Franchises

Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg, Don La Greca
Theme: Which teams in the four major North American leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL) are the most irrelevant—not necessarily the worst, but the most absent from the wider sports consciousness?

Episode Overview

This episode dives into a lively debate: “Which franchises are the most irrelevant in each of the four major sports leagues?” The hosts clarify that “irrelevance” does not mean a team is unimportant to its own market, but rather which organizations are most likely to be forgotten by the broader sports world. They move league by league, armed with stats, personal stories, and plenty of sarcastic wit, exploring why some teams simply don’t resonate or register outside their core fanbases.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining "Irrelevance" in Sports Franchises

• Irrelevance here isn’t market size or being terrible, but being “out of the national consciousness.”
• Local importance is acknowledged, but the true test: “Can you name anyone? Do you even remember they have a team?”
  • Alan Hahn: “Every team has a relevance in market. But when you talk about just in sports consciousness, is there a team that it’s like, ‘I forgot they even have a team.’” [00:44]

NHL: Contenders for Irrelevancy

• Ottawa Senators get early mention.
  • Peter Rosenberg: “The Ottawa Senators are a tough team when it comes to relevance in anyone’s life.” [02:54]
  • Hosts note that playing in a Stanley Cup Final gives a club at least some historical imprint.
• Columbus Blue Jackets are floated (per Bill Simmons), but Don La Greca finds counterexamples.
• Winnipeg Jets get consensus:
  • Don La Greca: “Most people couldn’t find Winnipeg on a map, you know… Even in Canada, it’s Buffalo. Like, it’s Winnipeg.” [14:40]
  • Alan Hahn: “When did you or Don bring up Winnipeg? The minute you said Winnipeg, I’m like, ‘How did I forget Winnipeg?’ Which is because you forgot. Exactly.” [16:58-17:11]
• Callers later bring up Calgary Flames as another candidate.

NBA: The Least Noteworthy Franchises

• Charlotte Hornets (current iteration):
  • Alan Hahn’s pick: “My choice is the Charlotte Hornets… They were owned by Michael Jordan and they still couldn’t get people in the building.” [06:18]
  • Don La Greca: “I’ve called games in Charlotte where the home team had the ball and the crowd was chanting defense… How irrelevant can you possibly be?" [06:33]
  • Caller testimony: “It is the worst vibe that you can ever have for a professional sporting event.” [29:24]
• Sacramento Kings are discussed but pushed back due to those early-2000s teams and notable players.
• Washington Wizards: Noted for a lack of national games since the “John Wall era.” Yes, they once had Michael Jordan, but...
• Brooklyn Nets: Don makes the case that being a second team in a big market can increase irrelevance:
  • Don La Greca: “I think sometimes being in New York can make you even more irrelevant because you’re getting the other teams in New York.” [18:57]
  • Alan Hahn: “How many people outside of New York know the Islanders exist?” [18:32]
• Memphis Grizzlies (old Vancouver version), New Orleans Pelicans get honorable mentions, but recent stars and moments keep them out of the bottom.

NFL: The Trickiest Category

• Jacksonville Jaguars: Often cited by Don and Alan as the front-runner:
  • Don La Greca: “It’s Jacksonville… Not a big market… They’ve never been to a Super Bowl.” [09:02]
  • Alan Hahn: “The Jaguars often do feel like NFL Jays, as you would say… Like, they don’t feel like they’re… What history do they have that draws you in?” [09:48]
• Carolina Panthers, Houston Texans: Expansion status brings them up, but Carolina has played in Super Bowls and produced some memorable stars (Cam Newton, Steve Smith); Houston is “neck and neck” with Jacksonville for recent irrelevance.
• Arizona Cardinals: Caller Heather notes, “I don’t think I know a single person who is an Arizona Cardinals fan.” [32:49]
• LA Chargers: In L.A., “they’re probably the fifth most popular team” behind Raiders, USC, UCLA, and Rams. [33:55-34:09]

MLB: Forgotten in the National Eye

• Tampa Bay Rays: Multiple hosts converge here.
  • Alan Hahn: “How could it not be the Rays?” [17:31]
  • Peter Rosenberg: "Even when they dominate the division… might be 4,503 in the stands… It’s nothing.” [17:45]
  • The stadium (Tropicana Field) atmosphere is panned as “very bizarre.”
• Miami Marlins: Noted for World Series wins but little lasting emotional impact.
• Oakland/Las Vegas A's: Currently irrelevant but once a dynasty—nostalgia could revive them.
• Texas Rangers: Don: “Where do you put the Texas Rangers? I know they played in a couple of World Series, but when you think of their history…” [10:53]
• Colorado Rockies (caller): “You see Rockies on the schedule, absolutely no movement there.” [35:54]
• Milwaukee Brewers, LA Angels/Anaheim Angels named by later callers.

The Importance of Market and History

• Even being in a big market doesn’t guarantee relevance (“Nets, Devils”).
• Don La Greca: “Even in this… being in New York doesn’t automatically make you relevant.”
• Green Bay Packers used as the flip-side: smallest market, huge relevance—shows how history, tradition, and fan passion can overcome market size. [43:10–43:29]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Ottawa Senators’ star power:
  • Peter Rosenberg: “Who’s the biggest player in the history of the team? Ron Francis?” [03:19]
  • Don La Greca: “No, probably Daniel Alfredsson.” [03:24]
• On the Charlotte Hornets’ ineptitude:
  • Alan Hahn: “The home team had the ball and they were chanting defense. Like, how irrelevant can you possibly be.” [06:33]
• On Jacksonville:
  • Don La Greca: “They play more… they play two home games in Europe every year.” [09:04]
  • Alan Hahn: “When they get good again, will it blow back up again because of the nostalgia and the history and all that stuff?” [10:43]
• On Winnipeg’s obscurity:
  • Don La Greca: “They made Winnipeg because Canada was jealous that the United States had Buffalo.” [15:00]
  • Alan Hahn: “When did you or Don bring up Winnipeg? … How did I forget Winnipeg? Which is because you forgot. Exactly.” [16:58-17:11]
• Caller on Charlotte atmosphere:
  • Caller Jay: “You could actually pick up a date inside of Spectrum Center whenever during a game because there’s no one there.” [29:34]

League-by-League “Most Irrelevant” Consensus

NHL

• Consensus: Winnipeg Jets (with strong cases for Ottawa, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Columbus)

NBA

• Consensus: Charlotte Hornets (modern era/Bobcats), with shouts for Wizards and Nets

NFL

• Consensus: Jacksonville Jaguars (Carolina Panthers, Houston Texans, Arizona Cardinals, LA Chargers as competition)

MLB

• Consensus: Tampa Bay Rays (Marlins, A’s, Rangers, Rockies, Brewers also cited)

Meta-Discussion: Why Are There So Few Truly Irrelevant Teams?

• Don La Greca: “We really can’t come up with an irrelevant NFL franchise. Let’s be honest, we can say the least relevant, but they’re all relevant because it’s the NFL… That just shows you how relevant sports are.” [40:19]
• Alan Hahn: “There’s got to be a handful of markets that get almost like 0.1% appearance on national games per year in all the sports.” [42:15]
• Don La Greca: “Sports is in a pretty good spot. Truly irrelevant franchises can be counted on one hand out of 124 teams.” [41:20]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:44] — Introduction and framing the irrelevance debate
• [02:54] — Ottawa Senators as a candidate
• [04:21] — Sacramento Kings and NBA historical discussion
• [06:18] — Charlotte Hornets, NBA irrelevance, crowd anecdotes
• [09:02] — Jacksonville Jaguars and NFL irrelevance
• [14:40] — Winnipeg Jets, NHL “forgotten franchise”
• [17:31] — Tampa Bay Rays, MLB attendance
• [24:30] — Do big markets guarantee relevance? New York Nets, Devils
• [29:24] — Caller confirms Charlotte Hornets “vibe” (or lack thereof)
• [32:49] — Arizona Cardinals: Does anyone care?
• [33:55-34:09] — LA Chargers: Fifth most popular LA team
• [35:44] — Colorado Rockies as a forgotten MLB team
• [40:19] — Can any team be truly irrelevant in the NFL?
• [43:10] — Green Bay Packers: The counterargument to market irrelevance

Conclusion

Despite a few clear contenders, the hosts agree that true irrelevance is rare in North American sports: so many teams are engrained in their communities or have history, and the sheer popularity of the major leagues ensures most franchises see their moments in the spotlight. Yet, as their laughs, jabs, and anecdotes reveal, some clubs do drift perilously close to the edge of national consciousness—no matter how many roster moves, rebrands, or playoff upsets they attempt!

For quick reference:

• NHL: Winnipeg Jets
• NBA: Charlotte Hornets
• NFL: Jacksonville Jaguars
• MLB: Tampa Bay Rays

“We really can’t come up with an irrelevant NFL franchise. Let’s be honest, we can say the least relevant, but they’re all relevant because it’s the NFL.”
— Don La Greca [40:19]