Hour 3: NBA ASG & Stafford

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 3: NBA ASG & Stafford

Release Date: February 19, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Title: Hour 3: NBA ASG & Stafford

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1. Introduction

In the third hour of the "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" podcast, hosts Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg delve into the declining viewership numbers of the NBA All-Star Game (ASG) and transition into a heated discussion about Matthew Stafford's future with the Los Angeles Rams. This episode provides insightful analysis on sports broadcasting trends and the strategic decisions facing major sports franchises.

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2. NBA All-Star Game Viewership Decline

Peter Rosenberg kicks off the conversation by revealing concerning statistics about the NBA ASG:

"What if I told you that the audience was the second lowest ever watched All Star Game?"
[00:57]

Don Hahn responds with skepticism regarding the backlash the event has received:

"I wouldn't be surprised the way it got bashed."
[01:09]

Chris Canty offers a contrasting view, seeing modest declines as positive:

"Honestly, I'd say that's pretty good news. I was worried it would be the worst."
[01:12]

Despite these reassurances, Peter Rosenberg emphasizes that the ASG's viewership has consistently been underperforming since 2015, highlighting a decade-long trend of declining audiences:

"They were never under 6 million for the rest of the century. Like that's the last three years. The audience is telling you we're done, we're out."
[04:27]

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3. Comparison with Four Nations Hockey Event

The hosts compare the NBA ASG's performance with the recently aired Four Nations hockey event:

Peter Rosenberg mentions the viewership numbers for Four Nations:

"What is that in just in the U.S.? What was the Four Nations? That was Saturday night..."
[01:15]

Don Hahn provides the specific viewership figure:

"4.444."
[01:34]

After some back-and-forth estimates, they conclude that the ASG narrowly outperformed Four Nations:

"Yeah. No, actually, Don, it was very close to the four nations. 4.7."
[01:57]

Chris Canty adds context by noting the scheduling conflicts and competition with popular shows like Saturday Night Live:

"They were up against SNL, which SNL."
[02:23]

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4. Reasons for Low Ratings

The discussion identifies several factors contributing to the ASG's poor performance:

• Scheduling Conflicts: The ASG being aired against established programs like SNL and Four Nations hockey reduced its potential audience.

  "They did. They were up against SNL, which SNL did very well."
  [02:23]

• Player Engagement: Players reportedly felt something was missing during the event, leading to a lackluster performance that didn't resonate with fans.

  "The players are saying that it just had like there was something missing."
  [05:01]

• Event Format Issues: The skills competition was criticized for becoming a novelty rather than showcasing true athletic talent, with players exploiting loopholes to win rather than genuinely competing.

  "Instead of taking the tuck because it's how fast you can complete the course when many AMA and Chris Paul, instead of shooting the ball, they just took the ball off the rack and dropped it, just threw it."
  [08:01]

• Length and Content Quality: The extended duration with minimal actual game time left viewers disengaged.

  "By the way, it was three hours long and there was less than 40 minutes of actual game time."
  [13:12]

---

5. Possible Consequences and Recommendations

The hosts debate the sustainability of the ASG given its declining ratings:

• PR Impact vs. Financial Gains: Don Hahn questions whether the league should continue the event despite the negative publicity, weighing the potential sponsorship revenue against the reputational damage.

  "Is it worth the PR hit? Because that's what you got. You got eviscerated on Saturday."
  [04:34]

• Future Viability: Peter Rosenberg argues that the ASG should be reevaluated and potentially scrapped in favor of formats that better engage audiences.

  "They have got to scrap this instead of trying to salvage it with new novelties and all. It's over."
  [04:27]

• Potential Formats: Suggestions include reverting to the traditional East vs. West format or integrating fan-voted participation with higher accountability for players.

  "What if the fans voted on who they wanted in the contests and the players had to do it?"
  [11:05]

---

6. Transition to NFL: Matthew Stafford and the Giants

Shifting gears, the conversation moves to the NFL, focusing on Matthew Stafford's uncertain future with the Los Angeles Rams and the implications for the New York Giants.

Peter Rosenberg references Adam Schefter's insights:

"Adam Schefter on his podcast talked about Matthew Stafford and his future with the Rams that they are negotiating..."
[27:50]

Don Hahn expresses skepticism about trading Stafford to the Giants, questioning the team's ability to integrate a veteran quarterback without sacrificing future prospects:

"I don't know what sense it would make to bring in Matthew Stafford and Cooper cup and draft Travis Hunter and try to be the best version of... as this season turned into a contender season for the Capitals."
[27:56]

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7. Discussion on Giants' Quarterback Situation

The hosts engage in a robust debate over the Giants' strategy concerning their quarterback position:

• Don Hahn advocates for exploring options to acquire Stafford without compromising the team's future, emphasizing the need to win games to restore franchise pride:

  "Why am I bringing Cooper cup bringing this guy? Well, aren't... Don't you want to be in the business of starting to win some games here or just because you can't win a championship..."
  [28:20]

• Chris Canty aligns with Hahn's perspective, emphasizing the importance of building for the future rather than settling for mediocrity:

  "If the purpose is to be able to put something presentable on the field... I'm with Dave. No, no interest. If it in any way sacrifices the long term building of this team..."
  [30:19]

• Peter Rosenberg highlights the pitfalls of the Giants' current strategy, urging the organization to make decisive moves to secure a competitive edge:

  "You can't keep doing this to the brand. What's the end game here... you just see, hitting the pause button."
  [30:35]

The discussion underscores the tension between immediate success and long-term team development, with the Giants at a crossroads on how to best position themselves for future triumphs.

---

8. Conclusion

By the episode's end, the hosts reiterate the critical need for both the NBA and NFL to reassess their current strategies. For the NBA, revitalizing the All-Star Game is essential to regain viewer interest and maintain its position in the sports landscape. In the NFL, the Giants must balance the urgency to win now with the imperative to cultivate a sustainable, competitive team for the future.

Don Hahn sums up the sentiment:

"Everybody wants the quick fix. Everyone wants the Philadelphia 76ers. Trust the process. That's not how it works in sports."
[48:36]

The trio concludes with a call to action for sports franchises to make informed, strategic decisions that prioritize both present achievements and future potential.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "What if I told you that the audience was the second lowest ever watched All Star Game?" – Peter Rosenberg [00:57]
• "Is it worth the PR hit? Because that's what you got. You got eviscerated on Saturday." – Don Hahn [04:34]
• "They have got to scrap this instead of trying to salvage it with new novelties and all. It's over." – Peter Rosenberg [04:27]
• "Everybody wants the quick fix. Everyone wants the Philadelphia 76ers. Trust the process. That's not how it works in sports." – Don Hahn [48:36]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" provides a comprehensive analysis of the challenges facing major sports events and franchises. From the NBA's struggling All-Star Game to the NFL's quarterback dilemmas, the hosts offer nuanced perspectives that highlight the complexities of sports management in a competitive entertainment landscape.

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For more insights and discussions, subscribe to the "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" podcast on ESPN New York, the ESPN New York app, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Chris Canty]

Banners in the rafters.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8:80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. 5:00 hour. I got some numbers for you boys.

[Don Hahn]

Numbers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We have the All Star Game viewership for the NBA from Sunday.

[Don Hahn]

Mm.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What if I told you that the audience was the second lowest ever watched All Star Game?

[Don Hahn]

I wouldn't be surprised the way it got bashed.

[Chris Canty]

Honestly, I'd say that's pretty good news. I. I was worried it would be the worst.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, the worst was two years ago, so at least to top that, it still was 13 down from last season. Now what if I told you. Let's see, what was the in. In just in the U.S. what was the Four Nations? That. That was Saturday night, Saturday.

[Don Hahn]

4.444.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So would you think the NBA was higher or lower?

[Don Hahn]

I would say it would probably be higher.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How much higher?

[Don Hahn]

Basketball. I'd say maybe a million. More. I'd say maybe I'll just throw it in. I did not see it. 5.5 million.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. No, actually, Don, it was very close to the four nations.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

4.7.

[Chris Canty]

Well, that's pretty damn close.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There was a time the NBA All Star Game in the early 2000s drew 13 million viewers. So those days are over, over, over.

[Chris Canty]

Also remember Four Nations. Not only is it a new thing, not only is it hockey, it was on Saturday night versus the Sunday night for the All Star Game. Although they did. They were up against SNL, which SNL.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now did we have a number on SNL, which I'm sure did very well. 15. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. So again, but you could still DVR that, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

True.

[Don Hahn]

The SNL thing was three and a half hours long. What did it start? Eight o'clock. It went on to like eleven.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it took you right into the 11 o'clock news.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, but wow, 15 beyond. That's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's the 15's big number.

[Don Hahn]

15 million. I had to extend the recording because I didn't want Nancy to miss the, the, the Paul McCartney. It went to like 11:20 almost. And Dan Grasso was telling me that there was a lot of affiliates that, that left in a lot of the country didn't see McCartney checked out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Because they, they, they assumed it because it only went to 11:15. That a lot of the affiliates bailed out at 11:15 not realizing or not caring that they was going to go beyond that. So that was like, that was long. So yeah, that, that definitely was something up against it. But had the Four nations been on a Sunday and then that been on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A Saturday that went head to head, that would have been interesting. Right?

[Don Hahn]

You're talking about something that happens every year. The NBA has a much, a vastly bigger audience than the NHL does. That's still a loss even though it won by 3.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I agree.

[Don Hahn]

That is a loss.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's why I said that. Because I do, I do view it as you do. I view it as a loss. And you have to look at this too. The last three years, so, so again, in two, in 23, the All Star game got a four, six. They got five, four last year and this year for seven. They were never under 6 million for the rest of the century. Like that's like the last three years. The audience is telling you we're done, we're out. And in fact, when you really look at the numbers, it's unbelievable that since 2015 the audience has been telling you that they're out. So we're on a 10 year, 10 year run here where they were under 8 million and that's a problem. So like I said, it's not. Not to get belabor it, we did this yesterday and I know you guys did it Monday. It's. They have got to scrap this instead of trying to salvage it with new novelties and all. It's over.

[Don Hahn]

Well, you have to ask yourself if you're a league, is it worth the PR hit? I'm sure there's money to be made. You know the sponsors. Listen, 4.7 isn't anything. TNT will still get sponsors for it. The building in San Francisco is full. Full. You'll never have to worry about that. There's probably money to be made.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, it wasn't. That was. The players were complaining.

[Don Hahn]

Even the arena didn't really tell.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, that's even feel full. The players are saying that it just had like there was something missing.

[Don Hahn]

But let's say money was made.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Is it worth the PR hit? Because that's what you got. You got eviscerated on Saturday. I mean honestly, and I know we all live in Our own bubble when it comes to social media. So it's easy for me as a hockey guy to pop on Twitter and see people bashing the NBA All Star Game. But I looked a little deeper. Who was bashing it? Was it NHL fans? Was it? No, these were NBA fans. People that their emoji is a basketball or a knick hat or something. These are people that love the game of basketball. Just basically bashing it, celebrities bashing it. And it was. It had to be a really humbling moment. Is it worth putting on an event that for two consecutive days it is going to be just eviscerate, eviscerated, bashed and your league is going to be embarrassed by it? Is it worth whatever few million dollars you might make or whatever ancillary things that it might be worth doing, Is that now gone? Because you can't take the 48 hour PR hit.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I still think they have to do NBA Con. I just think they've got to figure out a better way now. Saturday night I got the numbers for that.

[Chris Canty]

Okay. Oh, hold on, hold on. All Star Saturday. Let me think for a moment.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All Star Saturday again. That's tnt and, and Four nations was on abc.

[Chris Canty]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

Three, two, three.

[Chris Canty]

I would go. I'm gonna go a bit higher.

[Don Hahn]

Let me go.

[Peter Rosenberg]

3, 8, 3, 4. The least watched iteration of All Star Saturday ever.

[Chris Canty]

Ever.

[Don Hahn]

Now, now the thing is, is that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So it lost to hockey.

[Don Hahn]

But there are people because they're NBA fans turn it on and hate watched it or like what the heck is this? Like that if you were. If they knew it was going to be that, they wouldn't have turned it on at all. Like so if you don't do something going into next year, the number is going to. You're going to cut it in half. Like there were probably people that turned it on and didn't expect it to be that bad. No. And there are people like Peter's probably in this situation. Like there are. I talk to a lot of people that are sports people. But like they, the Four nations wasn't on their, on their radar. You know, they know that the hockey but the foreign, they blame the NHL for not promoting. And I think the NHL promoted it just fine. It's just that there's not a lot of people that pay attention to it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All over ESPN they were constantly promoting.

[Don Hahn]

But. But there are certain people, if you're a basketball fan or casual sports fan. The Four nations, it kind of had that kind of soccer feel to it. Like there's times like I don't Follow soccer at all. Like, I'll hear about different things. I'm like, what is that? And people in there in soccer be like, what do you mean? You don't know that? Because I just don't live in that world. Like, so there were a lot of people that were just like shocked by that. That's what's so shocking about the four nations number is there are people that maybe the day before didn't even know that it existed. Let me check this out. And we're completely sucked in. Oh, how could you not be right where the NBA. Oh, let me just check out the skills competition. And like we're slack jawed. Like, what the heck is going on?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You see? So, so Chris Paul and Wa Nyama, they were in the, the skills competition, which is, you know, dribble, pass, shoot. Literally, that's what this is.

[Chris Canty]

It looks like little kids running drills.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Basically it's, it's drills, but it, it was supposed to show all your skill set, right? All the things you had, the, the little obstacle course type of thing. And in the beginning was kind of interesting because we hadn't seen it before. But then you start to realize, okay, there's a way you can cheat the system because they don't give you points for making shots. It's just taking the shots. So rather than take the tuck because it's how fast you can complete the course when many amma and, and Chris Paul, instead of shooting the ball, they just took the ball off the rack and dropped it, just threw it. They didn't even bother shooting. And it was like, wait, what, you're making a mockery of this now? And they thought, well, that's our loophole. We figured out how to win. And so the league wouldn't give them the win because they made a mockery of it. And that's the example. As a fan, you're watching, you go, what are they doing? Well, they don't, they don't have to shoot technically, so they're not. Well, what am I looking at now? Novelty. The season, the year before, you remember it was Sabrina Unescu and Steph Curry had that shootout which was compelling. They wanted to do Klay Thompson and Caitlin Clark, and Caitlin Clark said, thanks, but no thanks, which I actually had great respect for because A, they've got a season to get ready for. The shootout can mess with you a little bit. And it was also sort of like, what do I, what am I gaining from this? And so once she bowed out, that also took a little sizzle away from All Star Saturday. But it's. The slam dunk contest was always the premier event. And no offense to Mac McClung, but, boys, he's won it three years in a row. Do you know his winnings from the slam dunk contest is more than anything he's made as an NBA player?

[Don Hahn]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

$310,000 just to win three slam dunk titles. And he has not made that kind of money at the NBA level because he has hardly played at the NBA level.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So how is this an NBA slam dunk contest with a guy who. I wouldn't even call it a cup of coffee. He had what Don ordered that day with the. What did you get that day? Where was a tiny little cup?

[Don Hahn]

No, yeah, it was a Macchiato.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Macchiato. That's it. McClung's had a macchiato in the NBA. He hasn't even had a Venti or even a Grande.

[Chris Canty]

Yeah, no, not even a Grande.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a little shot, you know, but that's. So, again, fans are kind of watching and go, what am I looking at? What is this? And so I think, once again, we go back to. And now, every year, the same thing happens. Now it's John Moran. Oh, maybe I'll do it next year. It's that tease. Until you get to the realization is, oh, I got to come up with some dunks. Yeah, never mind. You know, Aaron Gordon's now. You know, I still got some dunks left. I'll do it like, no, bud, we've seen you already. You know who they want to see, and they're never gonna see it.

[Chris Canty]

I know, and that's why I'm a little.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The one thing Zion could do is I. You don't need to be in shape, man. Just don't.

[Don Hahn]

Just don't.

[Chris Canty]

That's why I'm annoyed. That's why. That's why I'm almost annoyed by the tease we got this week afterwards. The John Giannis.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's not happening.

[Chris Canty]

They're not gonna do it.

[Don Hahn]

I can have it between now, next year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How about this? Can the fan. What if the fans voted on who they wanted in the contests and the players had to do it? And if you didn't, you know, again, you turn it down, and the fans. Now you got to face the wrath of them. Would that be too much peer pressure? Here's who we want to see. We want to see you guys dunk.

[Chris Canty]

It's a good question. Is it too much peer pressure? I mean, it's too. It's enough that they Wouldn't do it. But no, not too much in my eyes.

[Don Hahn]

Now, our friend Kofi.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So, yes.

[Don Hahn]

Well, the problem with doing away with the NBA All Star Game in both the All Star Saturday night and All Star Game itself will be going to NBC starting next season. So one sense, the rating should improve with cable and over the air. And NBC isn't going to be happy with it gone. I will say this. TNT and the NBA are kind of intertwined. Like the NBA comes out of nowhere. Like, so maybe the rating won't be better because that it might not be a destination yet. Oh, I got to go game on NBC. And the other thing is they're not, they're. They're probably going to demand the NBA to do something about it because if they're going to put it on over the air, NBC, they're going to, they're not going to want that. So maybe that'll force them to try to improve it for NBC or NBC is going to be, screw it, I'm just going to put it on Peacock and be done with it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Who says they won't?

[Don Hahn]

You know, and that could, and then you could, then you could do that and then not have to worry about the number.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, again, if you're going to play it on a Sunday night, I mean, for, I believe Sunday night, once the football season's over, is what NBC is going to target for their NBA night. Right? That's what I've heard.

[Don Hahn]

And they will promote throughout the football season that they have the NBA.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Don Hahn]

But you know, at the start they're going to be people that like the first thing they're going to do. Oh, it's All Star. Let me put on TNT or let me put on espn. Like, it'll take a while for NBC to be the destination.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They can't get a 46 next year if NBC has the All Star Game. Oh, they cannot get a 4 6.

[Chris Canty]

But, and I'm by the way, they won't just, you know, just by. For some reason being over the air still makes a difference, even though you wouldn't think it would. I think they will do better than that. Guys. I also think the time, man, the more we talked about it this week, it just feels, it feels so stupid late for an All Star.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, it was three hours long and there was less than 40 minutes of actual game time.

[Chris Canty]

That's brutal, too.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, that was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Somebody did that because, remember, the games were to 40. They weren't timed. So the actual action, like Jalen Brunson played Eight minutes like he was, he was voted a starter but. Because that's how the game went. But it was over in a blink.

[Don Hahn]

But you mentioned how you. Everything else was 3:00 on a Sunday afternoon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's perfect.

[Don Hahn]

Back in its prime. And listen, Sunday in February, I mean, where are you going? It's 20 degrees outside in a lot of markets.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I agree.

[Don Hahn]

You know, get. Put it on in the afternoon, get more kids watching it. You put it in a problem really Sunday prime time. I know that's, that's where they think they're going to get the best number. But that workout the last year, that's just. I don't know how long. Obviously they were probably locked in and, and didn't realize about NBC having the SNL 50th or whatever. But you know, it's not the super bowl where other networks are going to lay out. Sunday's a big night for a lot of networks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

So you're going to have more competition. I understand they got college basketball. There's other things going on. But you know, a 3:00 on a Sunday in the summer, it's different. It's gorgeous. You can go out and do stuff. I mean, where are you going in like 75% of the country in a February on Sunday at 3 o'clock in February here in New York, Chicago, some of the bigger markets, it's freezing cold outside. They're just going to hunker down, watch the game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The only thing you're up against is probably nascar, right?

[Chris Canty]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

I wonder what Daytona did. Because that, I'm telling you, that's something that I really always paid attention. Like NASCAR has left me for the last few years. I don't even know I turn it on. It's almost like they got 17 year olds driving. Like I. It's completely lost me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know, but Joey Logano being one of the elder statesmen, that blows my mind.

[Don Hahn]

But that's me. But, but I just. The point system, they lost me. All right. I used to be into it. Now I'm not into it anymore. But I wonder. It also had a lot of delays done and again it got. They had to start it early because of weather and they had weather delays. So the numbers probably skewed because of that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ye. But not 12% audience gain is what I'm saying.

[Don Hahn]

It probably helped because it ended up getting pushed into prime time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Their average was 6.7 million viewers. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Now that again, I don't know. That used to always do a pretty good number because even people that aren't NASCAR family. Daytone is kind of a thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It draws your eye.

[Don Hahn]

500.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. 5 million viewers stuck around between 215 and 5:30pm because of the rain delay like you mentioned. So again, mid afternoon huge audience traditionally again race the NASCAR audiences know, middle of the afternoon on a Sunday. It's essentially a football audience. It's kind of the same demographic. And so, you know, for the NBA they went away from the afternoon or the late mid. Mid afternoon. Late afternoon at least Eastern time starts for All Star. But that might be a thing to think about as well. And then let the players go home that night. That's the problem. These guys just. These guys want to break. Everybody deserves. It's called an All Star break. Except for the guys that have to go to All Star.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I mean that was a good point yesterday. They have to acknowledge a way to be able to get some break for these players.

[Chris Canty]

I mean listen. I don't. Listen. Am I going to cry over the fact that the top players in the league don't get a great break during the season?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You will in May and June.

[Chris Canty]

But.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But to your point, your team has your star and he's shot because he never got one while everybody else did. Think about like Don mentions the Capitals. They have nobody on any of these four nation teams. How fresh will they be when they come back from this? While some teams are going to have some guys that might be a little.

[Chris Canty]

Banged up, I wonder how much that was an adjustment, Don, as this season turned into a contender season for the Capitals. You know, would that have been the same case if the Caps were where they were supposed to be?

[Don Hahn]

I don't know if anybody turned anything down. I mean Tom Wilson, I don't know what Canada was thinking. That was just dumb. Leave him in a way, he's got more goals than McDavid and he's a can counteract the Kachuk.

[Chris Canty]

If he was playing on Saturday, someone might have died.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That would have been something. 800 now 193776 Anthony is in. Wayne. What's up Anthony?

[Don Hahn]

How's it going? I got a new format for the NBA All Star game. How about international players versus the American players? I even have a 12 international.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Your only problem with that, Anthony, is this is what if you have a year where there's more because what are you going to pick 15 guys, right? What if there are more American or whatever you want to say, North American All Stars. And so. So maybe two guys can't make it. There's not enough international guys. You have to add to that. Really don't deserve it. That format does have flaws. I've seen that before.

[Don Hahn]

Well, there's some players that have. Whether they're grandparents or something from international, maybe they could represent their.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is that what we do? We start doing that, we start going back and you know what? Make it. We can have it sponsored by Ancestry.com.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Chris Canty]

Well, that's. I mean, listen, Kyrie wants to play on the Australian team, so I did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I did see that.

[Don Hahn]

What was the. The when. When the. When the Winter Olympics were in Turin, Italy had a hockey team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And it was just taking, like, people that's. Grandfathers were born in Italy. You had a vowel in your name.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're on the team.

[Don Hahn]

Like, you don't want to do that. I mean, they've done. They've done North America versus the world. We've done all that stuff.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You pronounce it gabagool. All right, you're on the team.

[Don Hahn]

You enjoy.

[Chris Canty]

You know what gabagool is?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Can you tell me what it is? Dave and Wes Caldwell. What's up, Dave?

[Don Hahn]

Hey, guys. How's it going? Yeah, like, I'm all. I'm a hockey guy, probably more than a basketball guy, but I'm watching, like, I watch the Four Nations. I'm all into it, and you see how these players care. These are not. Guys are. Hurts. They're. You know, it's a different kind of a pride thing. And you watch the NBA. I actually turned the game on, and then I saw LeBron didn't even play and no one knew about it. But you would. You would get an ESPN notification if LeBron was out, like, days in advance.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, he. But he didn't announce it. He didn't tell everybody until the day, I think, either the day of or the day before day off. And I did get an alert, but that's why.

[Don Hahn]

That's why I said to the. Anthony, like, I don't think they really care. And they do want to break they. I believe some of the contracts, like, if I make the all star team, I get this much money. Well, okay, you get there, but then you don't show up. And there are players that might deserve a shot of getting a name out there and, you know, making a name for themselves where the, you know, USA versus the world do the Dream Team do? Like, all the guys in the USA Basketball versus, you know, international. Then it's like, you know, the world.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think.

[Don Hahn]

I think that would work.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, Dave, I get it. And I think right now we're all trying to figure that part out, but I do feel like that gets too complicated. The idea of All Stars, this is what the fans want to see. This is who you vote for, this is who we want to see. And then the coaches pick the reserves, but essentially the starting fives are based on the fact that these are the players that the fans really feel like these are the guys we want to see. And the players are like, hey, I know you want to see me, but I don't feel like being here. And I told you, I blame the league for turning it into a four day event of, you know, just sponsors and vendors and advertisers and these players just get disillusioned. It's not an excuse, it's just reality. I know we went deep on this. I do want to get into some of the other stuff here.

[Chris Canty]

People, people care about this though, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

People really do care.

[Don Hahn]

It's.

[Chris Canty]

It's indicative of how much people love this game. And Don, I think you'd agree, when we were doing it, when Alan was away at the tournament, it's almost surprising. It's a reminder of how much people care about this league that they're so ticked off about it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is a basketball town, guys. Like, I've tried to tell people this.

[Chris Canty]

You know, it reminds you that. It really does.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Paul is in Woodbridge. Good. Paul.

[Don Hahn]

Hey, guys, just want to say, how about only 10 all stars are voted in. The fans vote the top 10 all stars, 11th place or 20th place, they, they'll, they'll play against the top 10. And the winners obviously get bonus money out of this. So the guys that are selected All Stars are going to be playing with some incentive.

[Chris Canty]

They want, they want to beat the.

[Don Hahn]

Top 10 all stars, so why not have that as a format?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I. Honestly, Paul, I. Guys, I don't think it's the format. I think you could easily do east versus West. I think it's all the other stuff. I think by the time we get to the game, like I told you guys the other day, I just think most of the players are like, like, all right already. Like, if you let them come in Saturday night and leave Sunday night, I don't think anybody'd have a problem. I think you'd get a better product.

[Chris Canty]

You think they'd go harder though, in the actual game? Like, do you think they'd actually care when it came to game time?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I do. I, I don't. I care. I think there's, you know, look, it's a lot harder to push that as something the More they get embarrassed publicly, the more I think you're going to start to see guys are going to realize, like, look, we can't mail it in. We can't keep doing this. But I just feel like when you have them coming in on Friday and they can't leave till Monday morning, it's. It's too much. But I don't think the format. Again, we've tried every format you could think of. I don't think the format's going to matter. And what four nations is. Is harder to do with the NBA, and you couldn't do it every year because that's too many players.

[Chris Canty]

What about, is this crazy? This may be really stupid, but is there a world in which you start the break earlier in the week?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like you're explaining the season, But I understand what you're saying.

[Chris Canty]

You play your. You play your last game on Sunday instead of Thursday, and then you play the All Star game on the following Sunday. And everyone's basically back to work on Monday. But it's at the end, you can get your five days first.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Got it.

[Chris Canty]

And then come back and do work again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And everybody else goes back to the facility. And that weekend you're practicing so that Monday everybody's ready to go. And then Tuesday you start playing.

[Chris Canty]

You start playing. But at least, at least the players feel like the second they're done with their games on Sunday, they have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday to themselves.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's not bad. See that, that might be the best idea I've heard so far. Look at me, Don.

[Don Hahn]

Look at me. Well, if I kind of like that is true. And they're spent on the. You give them the break, they get the full break starts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And then you could ease your way in again. An All Star Game, you're not. You don't have. But it's a way to kind of, you know, get the lather going again while the rest of the players who aren't All Stars are at the facility anyway that weekend, you know, you're not giving them a weekend. But let's be honest, when you go to a resort, what's the worst time to be at a resort?

[Chris Canty]

Weekend.

[Peter Rosenberg]

On the weekend. These guys, the best time to be there. Peter, I'm gonna put you in touch with Adam Silver.

[Chris Canty]

Yeah, I just stumbled into something.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think you might have done something.

[D]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Chris Canty]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so earlier we told you Adam Schefter on his podcast talked about Matthew Stafford and his future with the Rams that they are negotiating, I guess to see if they can get him to a more minimal number he has. I think it's 30 million this season, but it's not guaranteed. So of course he wants it to be guaranteed. He's got two years left in the deal, but none of that money's guaranteed. So either they're going to come up with a number that they agree upon, which also Shefty mentions that Stafford feels like He's a top 10 quarterback, should be paid accordingly. The Rams probably disagree at 37 years old. So if they can't come to a number, the most likelihood is that he will be then traded and there'll be teams interested. And of course the Steelers being one. But we know all the teams that are desperate for a quarterback, both of them. Also, there are two that reside here in New York. So before all of this, a couple of days ago, when the Stafford stuff started to become like a bit of a rumor of hey, this guy could be available should the Giants be all in, Dave Rothenberg had this to say.

[Don Hahn]

I don't know what sense it would make to bring in Matthew Stafford and Cooper cup and draft Travis Hunter and try to be the best version of.

[Chris Canty]

What you can be this coming season.

[Don Hahn]

Well, it just doesn't solve. I mean, it just doesn't solve solved the big problem, which you still don't.

[Chris Canty]

Have the young quarterback.

[Don Hahn]

Now, if you told me that bringing in Matthew Stafford was the finishing piece, if I'm the Steelers and I bring in Matthew Stafford, you know, that's a different conversation. But for the Giants, I don't know what sense it would make.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So Don, you had a different opinion earlier in the show. What do you think of what Dave said?

[Don Hahn]

Well, because first of all, if I'm able to get him but still keep the third overall pick and draft the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Quarterback, or Travis Hunter, which is what.

[Don Hahn]

Dave said, or Travis Hunter, I do. What I would ask Dave is what do you want 2025 to be? And if your answer is I just want to tank so I can get a better quarterback than the ones that are being offered to me here in 2026. But then what John Marrow was saying is that there's a possibility then they're going to blow it up and you're starting from scratch again. I think there is value to start winning some games. I got some people on social media saying, oh, you sound like Gettleman just trying to win seven games. I'm not trying to say that that's the capper for me, but I want to get out of the business of being an embarrassment. I want to function again. I want to be a team that's got a chance to win games. And you heard Brian Dabel say after that Indianapolis win, hey, here's what we look like when we got a quarterback, when they go out and get a quarterback. I'm not saying that you're going to win every game like you won the Indianapolis game, but you put yourself in a position to start winning games and start, you know, changing the culture of this team. And if you can do it and still have the young quarterback on the roster that eventually could take over at some point. I think it's worth kicking the tires on. I don't give up the third overall pick. I'm not giving up first round picks, but I at least kick the tires to see, all right, what would it take for me to be able to get them and if it's something that makes sense, that can make my 20, 25 better and still be able to bring in the young quarterback. Why wouldn't you do that? Like you heard Dave say, why am I bringing Cooper cup bringing this guy? Well, aren't. Don't you want to be in the business of starting to win some games here or just because you can't win a championship? Let's just go 0:17. Well.

[Chris Canty]

Win games like how and over how long? If the purpose is to be able to put something presentable on the field, as you put it earlier, Don, save the regime and, and like, you know, have a representative season where you're half decent. I'm with Dave. No, no interest. If it, if it in any way sacrifices the long term building of this team in a real way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

How does it, how does it do that? You want it like, like Don said, you have easy. It's easy in February to say, I'd rather go 0 and 17, then get to October, November and tell me that nobody ever says it in October, November.

[Don Hahn]

It's impossible to live for it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You can't keep doing this to the brand.

[Don Hahn]

What's the end game here? If I don't like the fact that Shane and Dable came back, I would have cut bait. I would have started fresh with a third overall pick. But they didn't do that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right? Exactly.

[Don Hahn]

So if you're terrible next year, then they're going to do it. So now you're bringing in another regime and now you got to try again. And now let's look because this is Dave's philosophy. Lose every game and collect draft picks. So how long do I have to lose until eventually they find the quarterback? Well, bart Scott tanking 25 so they can get Arch Manning. So the Arch Manning. Well, Arch Manning decides not to come out all Right. So then we'll. So that was a waste. So let's, let's tank in 26 and see what? When does it end, Peter? When does it end to where? Why can't I just be a team that I could sit there and watch on Sunday and see my team have a chance to win, put something together. So the only way, the only formula to win is to tank and get the quarterback.

[Chris Canty]

Not see. No, not tank. What I'm saying is I don't have an interest if I'm the Giants in giving up anything that could help build for a future to be good tomorrow. If you're saying it's all part of the same cause, which is becoming a great team over time, I'm fine with it. But the idea, for example, having to give up anything, anything higher than a fifth round pick for a bridge quarterback in this version of the NFL. Guys, I don't think that model works anymore. Rookies don't even play behind quarterback.

[Don Hahn]

But why is that? Because everybody panics. We got to win. Now when you saw Mahomes sit and watch Alex Smith for a year and become the greatest quarterback of all time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Tom Brady keeps saying it too, Don, that we've got to go back to that idea of throwing him into the fire.

[Don Hahn]

So what would be so wrong? Like again, I'm not sacrificing getting Sanders or getting Ward or getting a quarterback. And I'm with you. I wouldn't give up a first round pick. I wouldn't give up a first round pick in 2025. But if the Rams tell me all right, I'll take a third rounder, which we don't even know what the hell it would be, whether you even make your roster. And I can get a serviceable quarterback this year and maybe next year who can tutor my young quarterback. And then maybe at some point, maybe it's the middle of this year or the middle of next year, I can hand the reins to Sanders and kind of go from there. What would be so wrong with that? Now I don't know if Stafford would want to do that. I don't know if that's feasible. But to me, isn't that growing and moving in the right direction? I'm not saying throwing everything in a way to go 8 and 9 in 2025. I'm talking about going 8 and 9 and having it mean something for the future. Grooming my young quarterback, proving that I have the right quarter, the right head coach and the right general manager to kind of take steps forward, to just hit, sit here and be a three win team for the foreseeable future. Just hoping eventually that Jane Daniels drops in my lap. I mean, I just think that's foolish.

[Chris Canty]

I don't know, man. The Commanders got Luke McCaffrey with their third round pick last year. Nice, valuable part of their team moving forward for like years to come.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And the Giants got Evan Neal with the Giants.

[Chris Canty]

Well, we almost can't have a conversation about the Giants thing because they just can't draft for God knows what.

[Don Hahn]

No, but, but I understand draft is a commodity, but everybody's like makes it. I have a 37 year old quarterback who's under contract for the next three years that can, that can help me move forward. It's not a, I'm not putting all my eggs in the 2025 basket. I'm hoping that 2025 could be better so the future could be better. But if we don't make this deal and we just throw whoever in there and they win four games and we're starting all over again in 2016 with a new head coach, a new general manager and going through this whole thing all over again but hoping that we get the right quarterback.

[Chris Canty]

But if you're going to draft a quarterback this year.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Chris Canty]

The idea of wasting any capital on someone to teach him I think as opposed to having him be coached up and get him as many pieces around him, to me that's folly. I agree. I think people sometimes go, I think that people go crazy with the, with the saving draft picks and they act like, oh, we have three sixth round picks next year, that's what we need. I sometimes think it could be a bit much and it's for the draft nerds and the fantasy football obsessed people. But I will say, if you're talking about a first three round pick, these are really important pieces for a developing team.

[Don Hahn]

But at least that's a debate. But to shut it down completely like some fans have, like, I don't want them. Well, I'd like to have them. Can I find out what you want? I'm giving you a ton of cap space, Louisiana.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

Maybe, maybe you'll take a fourth round pick.

[Chris Canty]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

So I can't sack that fourth round pick is just too important. Well, I also think it's too important a position to just throw my young quarterback in and hope that he's going to be Jaden Daniels. Maybe he won't be Jaden Daniels. Maybe he'll end up being the deer in the headlights that first year and we'll say, boy, I wish he had a chance to sit there and watch a Hall of Famer for a season.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But here's Lewis Riddick from Get up this morning about Stafford and what what he thinks as far as an option for the Giants. They're in one of the weirdest situations because not only do they need to win right now because of the fact that both the head coach and general manager are probably sitting there, right, teetering.

[Don Hahn]

On the edge as far as their employment is concerned.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're also always trying to win for.

[Don Hahn]

The future and you're also always trying to set yourselves up.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So which one do you choose? Do you choose the short term fix? Do you go all in for a guy like Matthew Stafford? This dude is like one of the historically one of the best quarterbacks to play this game. That would be someone if I'm looking in the veteran free agent market and even though he's not a free agent.

[Don Hahn]

But you're trying to acquire him via.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Trade, that's the guy I'm going after.

[Don Hahn]

If I'm looking for a veteran, that's the dude.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So what he's basically saying is if you're feeling the pressure of I have to win now and you're no. And you know that drafting a quarterback doesn't put you on that, on that road. And we all know this. I mean, again, Peter, what you, what you saw this year and what the Texans saw two years ago, even though that's happening recently, that is not the norm. Just ask Jacksonville how long they're going to wait. Like it's not the norm. So for the Giants, in a draft that I know, like everybody loves Cam Ward, Shador Sanders is there as well. There is no guarantee. There's no feeling of this guy's going to come in. And we've got such a, like, what did one thing that Washington did have was there was some vets on that team. Like he, you had something around the kid. So when he stepped in, they all kind of got drawn to him and it all worked out. The Giants don't have that. So you're going to need somebody that is an adult in the room that can help bring. You know what you got to do. You got to just get the stench out somebody that can come in and maybe you're not going to win 15 games and go to the super bowl. But if you just win and function like a franchise that actually is competitive game in and game out, it does help your franchise kind of get back on track.

[Don Hahn]

And I've been getting into it with like TP on Twitter because he was talking about, like I said, they, they should have fired everybody last year. And he says, yeah, but they didn't. You can't double down on that by giving up picks, any picks they actually matter. In the NFL, seven wins versus three wins means nothing. No, it means everything. Because three wins, they're going to bang Shane and D and you're going to start over again.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

If you got seven wins, then you think, all right, they're going to stick with this, with, with this regime. And if you have the young quarterback again, I don't know if I have an appetite of having Stafford. If you're not going to, to get the quarterback. Here's what I understand where you're going.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's a question, Don. If Rogers won this season, if they got to eight wins this year and a lot of it happened later in the year and he started this year like, like, like what we saw at a Rogers. But also they, their defense wasn't so pathetic and they actually won a couple of games. Wasn't good enough to make the playoffs. But it's not, it wasn't tragic like the way this season went. Do you think he'd still be a Jet?

[Don Hahn]

I do, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do you think Joe Douglas would still.

[Don Hahn]

Have a job they were able to get out from under it?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, I, like I feel like it, it would give you the evidence of. All right, this is still. We, we need more time. We need to give this more time. And I think that's the same thing that would happen in that, in your scenario.

[Don Hahn]

You know, I get, I get made fun of this in on the morning show about like culture and everything. But I do think there is something to. You're just getting back to some winning.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

I mean you've been an absolute embarrassment. It's a joke. You've got season ticket holders who want to go and at least see a team. I always use this word, but I think it's the best word function. There were times last year they didn't look like a functioning franchise. Don't you, don't you want to just get back on track again? It all has to be. Lose all the games, collect all the draft picks and eventually we're going to get it right again. I agree. I wouldn't give up a bunch of picks for Stafford, but if they want a fourth round pick, I'm like, I can't give up a fourth round pick. That might be something that's going to help me build in the future. And then, and then, and then what? Next year? You know, sign Kirk Cousins with a weight. Might as well wipe my butt with the money. And then what? What do you. What is he going to do?

[Chris Canty]

Listen, I sort of have a feeling in the NFL guys, and I hear what you're saying, if it's not a major thing to give up, we can have a conversation. But Alan, listen to me on this. As someone who spent a lot of time in purgatory, a lot of, a lot of bad or average, slightly above, slightly below average seasons for my team, to me it is either burn it down or on the way up, hovering around in the NFL of like six or seven wins is a nightmare.

[Don Hahn]

But, but I.

[Chris Canty]

Draft picks. You're.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You're hovering that. No, Peter, you're hovering there because you didn't have quarterback play. If you get Stafford. That's not ever a question. That's not a question.

[Chris Canty]

No, no, no, Alan, you're wrong. They weren't. They're trying. They need Stafford to get to mediocre. They were the worst team in the NFL.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it's easy to add the other talent. It's much easier to add the other talent. And also it is to add the quarterback. That's the hardest thing to find.

[Don Hahn]

But you're buying again. You're buying into the. Jaden Daniels is the only reason they turned it around. You hit the reset button, you change the owner, the general manager, your cold coaching staff. The Giants didn' that. Yeah, the Giants ran it back. So now I'm stuck. So, no, if they hit the reset button, I'd be totally with you, man. That's why I wanted these guys take on the third pick and start over. They didn't do that.

[Chris Canty]

But that shouldn't change your philosophy, in my opinion. Here's the deal, Don. If that's how you felt, then you should be rooting for them to do everything they can for the future of this team. Not next year. Hope they suck next year and blow it up. The worst thing they could do is be average again next year and run it back with Shane and Dable. Hope that next year is a complete.

[Don Hahn]

Disaster and finally get them fine with that. But I don't want to do that. If they draft the quarterback.

[Chris Canty]

No, you don't. No, that. That would be.

[Don Hahn]

If you're going to tell me they're not drafting a quarterback, which I would. If you remember, I said they didn't give these guys a contract extension. So I said maybe that means they're not going to draft a quarterback. If they're not going to draft a quarterback, then I'd agree with you, but I don't want a young quarterback to have to go through all that dysfunction in his rookie year and then they blow it up and start all over again in his second year. Now you're wasting years. Young quarterback. So they're going to draft Hunter or they're going to trade down. That's a different story.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Get in the zone. AutoZone welcome to the A to Z.

[D]

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

Yep.

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[D]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don Hahn]

Bacon, pickles, onions, and a sesame seed blend, of course. And don't forget the fries and the drinks. Sound good?

[D]

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[Don Hahn]

This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like, you know, to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your 20th wedding anniversary and have to spend the next 20 years of your marriage making up for it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Chris Canty]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. So on the Stafford conversation and on the Giants quarterback conversation and what the hell they should do. And you can hear, you can hear it in Don's voice. He's very conflicted. Is he sick of losing? And I can understand that from a fan standpoint. I mean, the jets have made the playoffs in 15 years, but you also then reach that point of. But you know, you don't want to hamper getting to the right place where you can finally start to do significant winning. It's amazing. We're all or nothing now. It's like, like, it's almost like I'd rather be bad for years than meet mediocre for years. Like an 8, 9 win team every year doesn't do it for me because, you know, you're not getting anywhere. You're on the treadmill. But if you're bad for a long time because all you're doing is turning it over, turning it over, turning it over like the Giants have been doing, that does also. That's a bad. That's a bad treadmill to be on as well. So Chris Canty from Unsportsmanlike this morning, former Giant super bowl winner, he had this thought about what the Giants should do going forward, and it's a familiar take. The Giants, we want to be bad in 20, 25. Archman in 26, baby.

[Don Hahn]

Archangel posters ready to go. Archman, Arch Manning. That's what I, I thought the plan was all along.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Where are we going? Manning, Belichick, 26. Is that the ticket?

[Don Hahn]

You said it, I didn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Manning, Belichick, 26, baby. Even Canty sounds like he doesn't know what to do next. Like he, he's. Because Bart was the one that originally, Bart Scott brought this up on, on our old show a while ago when he said that that's the direction the Giants should go in. Because you could see that Arch has something about. In the college game, you could see it. Even when he was filling in for Quinn Ewers, you could see it.

[Chris Canty]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And so with that and the connection to the Mannings, it's this thought of, get there, bring him in, and there's your future. And now Kenny's on board, which tells you that nobody knows nothing.

[Don Hahn]

But it's. It's just not. It's. I wish it was that simple. I really do. I guess that's the frustrating thing I go through with the NFL. And Peter, you get caught up in it too, because you're experiencing with Daniels, that's all it takes. Just get the quarterback and you're fine. Everything's good. You think Kansas City won those Super Bowls just because of Patrick Mahomes? You don't think Andy Reid had something to do with it? The stability of that organization, making the right selections, doing the right thing. And by the way, they don't have a ton of household names at quarterback. They do, but they got. Everybody knows what they're doing. Look at Philadelphia. They didn't have to tank to get the quarterback. They got the quarterback in the second round, but they got a general manager that is savant, that knows how to draft no matter where they're drafting. Last I checked, Philadelphia wasn't picking first overall because they know what they're doing as a franchise and they figure it out. Everybody wants the quick fix. Everyone wants the Philadelphia 76ers. Trust the process. That's not how it works in sports. That's the easy way out. That's, that's kind of the version of the super team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's not go, let's not try to.

[Don Hahn]

Be smarter than everybody else. Let's find the shortcut. Let's get, get the answers off the other guy's desk. All right? Let's have the cheat sheet. Let's try to figure it out without having to study, without having to do the work, without having to be smarter than everybody else. Let's just have it fall in our lap instead of just finding a way to function. The franchise and how you do that is you make the right decisions no matter where the pick is. And you start winning some games, you start moving in the right direction, you get out of embarrassment, Bill. You start having a franchise, you can be proud of a franchise that people want to play for also in a market that's dying to see some decent football. And then you'll be surprised. I'm just so blown away. Everybody wants to do it the Sixers way. And it hasn't worked in Philadelphia yet. The dominant teams, Kansas City, Philadelphia, you know, the Edmonton Oilers. I know it's a different sport. How many, how many first overall, first overall picks did Edmonton have? There was a time they had a whole line of first overall picks, couldn't make the playoffs. Then you finally get the right people in place and they start piecing it together and also getting rid of a lot of those first overall picks. Sure, they had Connor McDavid, but there's a lot of other players that make it work in almost every sport. I'm sorry, when was the last time the Yankees tanked to get all these picks? Was Derek Jeter the first overall pick? Was Aaron Judge the first overall pick? But yet we all want the easy fix. All just, just lose every game. Collect a billion draft picks. But if you don't know what you're doing with them, I might as well be the general manager. It's like being a chef and you got all these beautiful steaks and you burn every one of them. What does it matter? Well, keep. You know what? Instead of changing the chef, let's just add more steaks. I've got 50 steaks, I got 100 steaks. And yet I burn every friggin one of them. Well, what's it, what do we do? I know we do give them a hundred steaks. Give them two more grills. No. Change the damn chef. Damn, it's so frustrating. People lazy. There's no quick fixes in sports. There's none. Cheat on the exam all you want. You're still gonna be a dullard not being able to get a job.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don, just look at the Rams. And what was. What was. What was Les needs. What was his. His phrase? It was. It was F them picks.

[Don Hahn]

That's right. That's right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What did he do?

[Chris Canty]

Nah, you're right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He went and got Stafford. Who, you know, you. You find the quarterback. Could you rescue him from a team where he can't win? And by the way, everybody keep an eye on Joe Burrow in Cincinnati. Maybe not right away, but over the next couple.

[Don Hahn]

You're right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay, so the Rams said we want to win, and they had draft picks, and instead. And they still made good picks. All right? They still found Cooper Cup. They still found guys, but they also understood that we need picks to get really good players. And they got those players, and it helped them win a championship. And by the way, they've been. What? Oh, have they been mediocre or. They've been relevant over the last X amount of years since they started that. That's the whole thing. Goff was a number one pick. He got him to the super bowl, but they couldn't win. They moved on from him to get an older quarterback. And has it worked out.

[Don Hahn]

But.

[Chris Canty]

But remember, they also did the work beforehand to put themselves in that place where a. They had the best defender in football. They were able to move lots of picks.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They had pieces. Yeah, they had. They still had to get Vaughn Miller. They still had to get with Leonard Floyd. They still had. They got Odell. They brought him in.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They added a lot of pieces to that team, using up a lot of draft capital, and no one cried about it because it worked out well.

[Don Hahn]

Sneed knows what he's doing. Sean McFay is a great coach. Mike LaFleur is a great offensive.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, no, stop there. That's what you're saying. Don is everything. I've always said the one thing that you can afford as an owner is the best. Because there's no cap on how much you can pay a coach or a general manager. Just get the best. Because once you get them, look at it again. Look at Philadelphia. You might want to punch Sirianni in the face, but you can't argue with him getting it done. Howie Roseman gets it done. All the guys off his tree, not so much him gets it done. You've got to find people like that, put them in place and let them work and stay the hell out of the way. And that's been the problem with both these franchises in New York.

[Don Hahn]

And you know, Philadelphia got it wrong. They changed the offensive coordinator, changed the defensive coordinator laden with tremendous, talented, experienced coaches to help them go out there and win. So you're able to make changes on the fly. Where coaching, this is a coaching league, man. You get the right coaches, they're going to figure it out. Now, of course you need the talent. Don't get me wrong, I get it, Peter. You need to have a great quarterback. But the idea that can only come with the first overall pick. When the best quarterback in the world was taking 10th overall, the Super Bowl MVP was taken in the second round. Where was Jackson taken?

[Peter Rosenberg]

30Th.

[Don Hahn]

Was Josh Allen the first quarterback taken in his draft?

[Peter Rosenberg]

7Th.

[Don Hahn]

So come on, man, everybody wants it easy. And right now the Giants are a mess in every way, shape or form and you're so focused on a quarterback. I want to start moving in the right direction. And if these are the right guys that John Marath seem to think, then they're going to have to start winning some games here.

[Chris Canty]

But think about what we're saying here. You kind of almost proved my point for me in the sense that that last piece, Allen, that veteran quarterback, that's the piece you add at the end when the whole thing's already been put together. Maybe they just shouldn't even be thinking quarterback, but, but they're not ready to.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even Mike Tannenbaum said you should always be thinking quarterback. Even when you have a quarterback, you should be thinking quarterback.

[Don Hahn]

But then fire these guys now because how many games are you going to win?

[Chris Canty]

But it's fantasy length. Docs, they already didn't. So now we're just stuck here where this is.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They are.

[Chris Canty]

It's the reality.

[Don Hahn]

We're stuck here. Then we, then we got to try to make sure that we at least stay with these guys. And that's John. See, that's the problem. I said it at the time. John Maris should extend them because bringing them back and saying, well, things better be better next year. Well, then what are you doing? You just see, hitting the pause button.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Man, it is dangerous. And our job, by the way, is to make sure that, that the pressure stays on. Like, you can't just sit back and just say, well, there's nothing we can do. No, no, there's a lot we can do about it. And that is keep the pressure on. That's what we're here for. 800 now we're 93776. More your calls coming up. The baseball that I keep teasing. We're going to get to that next. Where are the Yankees and Mets in the preseason rankings? Who's above the other and why? All that and more coming up. But first, Don, please, a little Bath Fitter.

[Don Hahn]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to Badan, Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

[D]

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