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- [00:01]
Don Hahn
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:05]
Alan Rosenberg
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:06]
Don Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at three on eight eighty ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.
- [00:14]
Alan Rosenberg
503 in the big city. Don Hahn and Rosenberg hanging out. Seven o' clock and then it's Dan Grasse. Mets win, although they lose Kodai sanga on the IL because of a strained hamstring muscle. 7:40 Tonight, the Yankees and the Royals as he continues to rake. He went 1 for 4. So his batting average went down to.394. But he did hit his 25th home run of the year. And we're talking about Aaron Judge. But it just seems like, and especially during the coverage last night of the finals and Pacers win over the Thunder, they took a 21 series lead. The topic of conversation has been about the Knicks and their coaching situation. And Allen, the Knicks do not get any breaks by who's playing in the Finals. Like so it seems like people want to talk NBA more so than they actually want to talk about this series.
- [01:03]
Peter
It's amazing.
- [01:04]
Alan Rosenberg
Like if you had Lakers, Celtics, this would be a topic. But it's becoming more and more of a topic because this, maybe it'll change now that that game was great.
- [01:13]
E
It's got to change.
- [01:14]
Alan Rosenberg
This has to.
- [01:15]
E
I'm telling you, at some point, Alan, at some point, Allen, people are just not real sports fans. I'll be honest.
- [01:20]
Peter
I think you're right. I think basketball fans are tuning in. But what we always know about any sport that gets to a championship round, you're trying to draw in casuals, you're trying to draw in non traditional people that just like to watch championship round and they also like to watch stars. Look, it's about celebrities. We could talk about superstars in their sport, but real superstars are celebrities. Like essentially that's what it is, right? No matter what walk of life, if you're a superstar in, in the entertainment world, when sports is entertainment, you are essentially a celebrity, right? And I can say with, I mean I could say with my chest, there's no celebrities playing in this. So your only draw is you like basketball.
- [02:04]
Alan Rosenberg
Right?
- [02:04]
Peter
That's all.
- [02:05]
Alan Rosenberg
That's it. And Peter, we've talked about the two national sports are the NFL and the NBA and the two regional sports are hockey and baseball. But if you don't have superstars in the NBA, then it becomes regional, right? The reason that the NBA is so popular is because people want to see players more than markets. That's why didn't matter that Cleveland was a Small market. They had LeBron James. Right. It's. People are going to gravitate to watch the stars play. And you have it right now, at least these guys aren't considered superstars. Now. It just becomes regional. And I don't think the country is interested in, in Oklahoma City and Indiana. Now. Does that mean that people wouldn't watch a game seven? Of course. I think that would be compelling. But it's still very early in the series. But Peter, I'm with you. If the Oklahoma City comes back and it's a classic game and they tie the series at two and we end up having a game six or seven, I think it could start to get eyeballs and more interest and more conversation. But right now it's too small market teams playing each other with no stars. It's basketball's version of the Rangers and the Diamondbacks in the World Series a couple years.
- [03:17]
Peter
Yeah, that's a great point. That's exactly what it is.
- [03:19]
E
And I get it. And I get it. I do. I guess I'm getting a little sick of the narrative because they keep moving the goalpost. At first it was, it's markets people don't care about and it's not going to be a good series. And now it's turning out so far to be basically as compelling as possible. You only have one blowout. The heavy underdog team is up to one and we're still like, ah, but no one cares. You're not wrong. I just find it frustrating. Like what, what more could you ask for last night than Indiana winning? To go up to one on okc. What was, what was the number for Indiana to win this series? Like +700 or something?
- [03:58]
Peter
I think it was, that was like, it's 6 or 550 or something like that. Yeah. When the, when the series started and it, it's, it's, it hasn't been compelling basketball. I mean, there were a million turnovers by the Thunder. Like, that wasn't great. Is it really that fun to watch the other two? Like the MVP is just getting crowded and 65ft from the basket? Like, again, as a Knick fan, you saw all this. He can't get up the floor because they've got, they're just putting dog after dog on them and no one else really stepped up. Isaiah Hardenstein's become a non factor. They took him out of the starting lineup. He played 18 minutes last night. He didn't do anything. So there's all that stuff that's going on and it's, it's It. I'm. I know we're in New York. We're going to sound like these guys, but it is what it is. It's Indianapolis and it's Oklahoma City. There's just not a lot of juice. There's not a lot of there there. You know what I mean? Like, and how about this? I was wondering what you guys thought of this. Did you see that? Before game three, they did this whole thing about Indianapolis and how the whole city's getting, you know, around this Pacer team and the whole state. The state of basketball, Indiana basketball, it's different here. Blah, blah, blah. They named city streets after all the players. Did you see that?
- [05:16]
E
No. They did it.
- [05:17]
Peter
Oh, yeah.
- [05:18]
Alan Rosenberg
Been there, done that.
- [05:19]
Peter
So, like, now if you're the Pacers, and maybe somebody came up that. Because I know the patients didn't do this. Clearly. Indianapolis said, as a city, we should name streets after our players for the finals. Isn't that great? And someone should have said, they did that in New York. We shouldn't do that. Because now it looks like we're copying and they have actually, like, iconic streets. We don't. So maybe we shouldn't do that. And yet they did it anyway. And it just looks small. Am I wrong to say kind of looks small time?
- [05:51]
Alan Rosenberg
Unless they're trolling me. Hey, you did it. After, you know, winning a second round series, we're in the finals. So the victor goes to spoils. Alan.
- [05:59]
E
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say very much. Yeah, they're up to one in the finals, dude.
- [06:03]
Peter
It's like little things like that. No, my example of that is sort of. This is my point. It just feels. This doesn't feel big time. The finals logo is not even really on the floor. It's a graphic. Like, what are we doing when Benedict.
- [06:16]
Alan Rosenberg
Wearing yellow is your star player? That's not getting the whole country excited. Halliburton barely gets people excited right now. Do I think that the Thunder, like, in a couple of years, the Thunder may become like that team, you know, but it takes time. So it just becomes regional. And you're talking about 1.5 million people combined in the two cities, population wise.
- [06:42]
Peter
Right.
- [06:42]
Alan Rosenberg
So you're not getting any. Anything from those two markets. Like, everybody could watch the game in those two markets. It's not moving the needle. You're trying to get the rest of the country to care. And let's face it, the rest of the country is not going to care until it's time to care. And, you know, games two and three and Alan. Peter, you're right. Two of the games were very compelling. But to a basketball savant like Allen, like it's not great basketball. There's great finishes, but it's not like spectacular. Yeah, but, but, but that doesn't even matter to me anyway. Alan, most people don't watch basketball the way you watch it. They just want to see it be competitive, you know.
- [07:20]
Peter
And well, you want this, but at that level you want the spectacular. You like it's the finals. You want epic, you want performances that are breathtaking, that you'll be talking about that you, you know, like that's what you want. You're looking for something special. And I just, other than the Halliburton shot, which there was, it was so unremarkable. It was a 17 foot pull up jumper. It was that Mike Breen didn't even think to say bang. That's how unremarkable it was. And it was 3/10 of a second left, like it was a game winning shot. But it's so unremarkable. And I just think that's kind of what I'm trying to say is I'm waiting for it now. The moment could happen now. It could be a clinching moment. It could be a series turning point, like a game 4. There could be something where SGA just goes crazy and you now you're going like whoa, that was an unbelievable, I'll never forget that performance or that play. It just hasn't happened yet.
- [08:16]
Alan Rosenberg
And also the David and Goliath thing, well that means, that means the rest of the country has to know how good the Thunder are. Do they?
- [08:23]
Peter
No.
- [08:23]
Alan Rosenberg
Like this isn't, this isn't a defending champion. This isn't even a team that's been in the finals in over a decade. Like so I don't know if the Thunder translated to being the beast that they are, you know, you know, so I don't know.
- [08:36]
E
I think some of this is in the eye of the beholder, guys. I mean, of course there are a lot of people out there would totally disagree with Allen's assessment about the game. One winner from Halliburton, that, that you know, it wasn't worthy of a bang. It wasn't a mo. I didn't see it that way. I mean, am I going to, am I going to tell you guys I'm thinking about this series every day? No. I have zero dog in the fight. But I still think it's kind of lazy of all of us to sort of, I don't know, I find this Conversation. Lazy. Yeah, I think we're being lazy. Generic. Oh, no one cares. Middle of America. That's on us, man. That's on us.
- [09:13]
Alan Rosenberg
I also think serving our audience. I don't think there's anybody listening to us now that are complaining. We haven't talked a lot about this series.
- [09:21]
E
No, I agree with you on that. But what series, Unnicks related, would dictate that kind of conversation?
- [09:28]
Alan Rosenberg
But if you have.
- [09:30]
Peter
I'm sorry. Okay.
- [09:31]
E
The greatest rivalry in the history.
- [09:34]
Peter
Don't even go there. Go there. Just go to last year. Mavs Celtics was. Had a lot of juice because you had Luca. You had Luca, who was about like, could he win his first title? And then what the Celtics did to him, that made it even more compelling. Like, oh, my God, Luca's getting embarrassed. They're picking on him defensively. He better show up. Like, there was drama to that.
- [09:56]
Alan Rosenberg
I know, but we're also. We're also at a time, guys, let's be honest that we're wondering who the next guy after LeBron's going to be.
- [10:02]
Peter
That was my point.
- [10:03]
Alan Rosenberg
Curry's getting older, so this might be how things are for a little bit. Until some of these guys, you know, grow the big boy pants and become superstars and these teams become something. We're in it. We're in a very transitional phase here. Like almost post Jordan, like outside of New York. I don't know if any people were excited about Knicks, Rockets, and certainly Magic Rockets didn't get people all fired up in 95.
- [10:25]
Peter
Nobody cared about those two finals. You're absolutely right, you know, because it.
- [10:28]
Alan Rosenberg
Was a young Shaq in Penny and nobody knew who they were yet or didn't care yet.
- [10:32]
Peter
And OJ Simpson was.
- [10:33]
Alan Rosenberg
That Rockets team was boring.
- [10:35]
Peter
And OJ Simpson was more interesting at.
- [10:37]
E
That time, but tough to compete with.
- [10:39]
Alan Rosenberg
But then Jordan comes back and all that, like, so it's going to take some time, but right now, the NBA is kind of going through that regional period. Hockey's going through it now. Listen, we could talk all we want. How compelling games one and two were in the Stanley Cup Final, and we were hockey lovers and we thought it was great, but the rest of the country's not going to care about Florida, Edmonton. It's not. Yeah, you know, you get. You get rain, you get Rangers, Blackhawks, you get. Then, then. Then maybe people are going to get. Get something going. It just becomes regional.
- [11:06]
Peter
Yeah, it's all true. And I think that it is all about the transition period. But all. All you have to know is That I walked on the set on get up twice this week. And one day, it was the day before game three, it was the day of game three, which was yesterday. And, and both times I was stunned that the, and the only time we talked about the NBA Finals was a sponsored element of who's going to have this points and who's going to have that point. And then we got right back into what. Let's talk about the stars now. Giannis, kd, Knicks coaching search, those bigger NBA headlines. And get up is not a New York show, It is a national show. But that's what they were doing because that was Peter. The more trending, higher level conversations than the NBA Finals, that was. That's all you needed to know.
- [12:01]
E
But some people would argue, yes, but it's a national show with a lot of New York bias that's shot in New York. And some people would probably disagree with that sentiment and think that's the problem. Why are we so star desperate that we don't want to talk about good basketball? Because we just need to focus on what Kevin Durant's doing next.
- [12:18]
Alan Rosenberg
But you know how espn, same Fox, everybody else, they're a slave to the numbers. They want ratings, they want people to watch. So they do the research, they do the work. You know, like, Greenberg just can't be like, I'm a Knick fan, I'm going to do this. If people don't want to hear it, they know the NBA is popular. Alan's not saying they're not talking NBA, but I think that really shows you they're talking NBA, just not the Finals.
- [12:40]
Peter
Right?
- [12:40]
Alan Rosenberg
Like that. There are people that love the NBA that are like, I'm good and the Knicks are a big thing. I get it. But the whole reason I brought this up was because it's putting a lot of light on Knicks coaching search. And Charles Barkley was on NBA TV and he asked the question, what are the Knicks doing?
- [12:58]
F
The Knicks gotta be the stupidest damn people in the world. Like, you don't fire no good coach like that and don't have a plan. Tips did a hell of a job. Obviously something's going on now, but you don't have a plan. And now the three coaches turn you down. You gotta have a plan, man. They don't have a plan now. I mean, I don't know what the hell they're gonna do.
- [13:21]
Alan Rosenberg
See, he's entitled to his opinion, but it's a false narrative. Coaches didn't turn him down. The teams they're on, turn them down. Why has this been turned into, oh, the Knicks are an embarrassment. Nobody wants to coach them. No, they're. I think Jason Kidd wants to be the Knicks coach. The Mavericks aren't talking, you know, so why is he saying coaches are turning them down? Coaches aren't turning them down.
- [13:46]
Peter
Don.
- [13:46]
E
You're right.
- [13:49]
Alan Rosenberg
All right.
- [13:49]
E
You're right. And when I've said this, I agree. I think the Shams texts, Shams tweets that have been going out are a bit inflammatory and unfair. But it does speak to the fact that the way the Knicks have been doing it, even though it's not accurate, is creating a bad conversation about the team.
- [14:10]
Peter
Yeah.
- [14:10]
E
And I understand you're right. Charles is missing it if that's not what's happening. But the Knicks are allowing it. The way it's been handled is allowing for that to happen. And that is partially on them.
- [14:21]
Peter
And also the easiest thing here right now to point out is that the Knicks have earned this. The Knicks have earned the reputation of a franchise that finds a way to mess up. Then they've earned it. Not recently, because Leon Rose, since he's taken over, has really. He has transformed this into a functioning franchise. But before him, you could argue there was a long time, you know, I hope after Donnie Walsh and before Leon Rose, the majority of the time, not all of it, but the majority of the time it was not a functioning. Not a. Not a well functioning franchise. And the Phil Jackson era is at the epicenter of the most dysfunction. And so because of it, the reputation is there. And what most people are waiting for is the next thing that looks dysfunctional. You just say, well, there they go. There go the Knicks. They did. They don't know what they're doing. They're a big mess. Like, you just. You believe it because past history wants you to believe it. It's the same thing about the Cleveland Browns. It's the same thing about the Dallas Cowboys. It's the same thing about all the franchises that, you know, always find a way. You're all. Your team used to be like this, Peter, the commanders.
- [15:35]
Alan Rosenberg
Oh, sure.
- [15:36]
Peter
Like it always was. Well, that always goes on there. That's the commanders. That's what happens there. It's just a reputation that they cannot. They can't cleanse themselves from it until they win a championship. That's a real thing. So that's why they don't know what they're doing. They look like idiots. Is the simple thing to go to for a guy like Charles Barkley, because it's what he knows it. The Knicks have earned this. And they have to find ways to continue to. To bat that down and say, we are not like that anymore. And here's the next situation. They have to hire a coach that everybody goes, you know what? That's pretty good hire. And then all that goes away again. But if they don't, it's just going to get louder and louder.
- [16:17]
Alan Rosenberg
But I do believe that there is an ulterior motive to these teams that either they don't like Dolan, they don't like the Knicks. Like, well, they don't. Why are they so quick to let the world know unless they want to embarrass the Knicks?
- [16:33]
Peter
I have a theory. My theory is they want like. So just everybody knows these reports that you get of, you know, the Knicks were turned down. The Knicks were turned down. The Knicks aren't telling people that. It's the teams that got the call for some reason want to promote the fact that, hey, the Knicks want our guy. And we said, no, we're keeping our guy. And they want you to know that's how value. Look how good our coach is. Another team wanted to poach him and we're not letting them go. That's what that they're putting it out there that way. Now it embarrasses the Knicks because it makes it look like no one wants your job when, as you said, Don, no, it's. No team will allow them to take their coach. And that's really what it is. But that's not as much fun as nobody wants the Nick job, right?
- [17:25]
Alan Rosenberg
But this is all going to blow up in everybody's face if Jason Kidd ends up getting Pride away from Dallas and becomes the coach, which isn't.
- [17:31]
Peter
Which I still think is on the table, a possibility.
- [17:33]
Alan Rosenberg
1-800-919-3776 let's go back to the busy phones. Let's talk to Moose in Jamaica. You're on espn, New York.
- [17:43]
G
Don, Alan, Peter, what's up? Good afternoon, fellow.
- [17:46]
Peter
What's up?
- [17:47]
Alan Rosenberg
Afternoon.
- [17:49]
G
Yeah, so I have an interesting take. Hear me out on this. I'm with the idea that the Knicks don't necessarily have a plan, but what they're trying to do based on what they've done since last offseason, swing for the fences with Rose and the whole Knicks brass trading for a 25 and 10 guy in Cat and bridges, you know, unloading the picks and Tibbs playing his starters to the max to get the perfect seating. They, they basically tried their best to win this year and got two games close to the finals. So all that they're doing now, going through the, the, the, the necessary process as all the great coaches in the league currently and then go to the, the rest of the assistant coaches, I'm not so sure. I think this is going to be it. I'll leave you with this.
- [18:40]
H
I think it's going to be an.
- [18:41]
G
Interesting summer for the Knicks where besides Bridges and maybe Cats and maybe og, nobody on the team is safe. I think they're seriously trying to build a win now team and they're exhausting to do it. Thanks for taking my call.
- [18:56]
Peter
He's right. He's right. They are swinging and that's why the Kevin Durant stuff won't go away. No matter how much people are saying they don't think the Knicks are going to do it. I think if they can get it, if they can get him for not and not have to give up as much, if they can get help, whatever it. I think they would bring him in if they could get the right kind of deal and if KD wants to come here and can help, you know, facilitated and all that stuff, I, I think they are trying to swing for the fences and try to win as early as next year because they just see opportunity with the east where it is.
- [19:31]
Alan Rosenberg
Well, but you know, you keep looking at that east and how wide open it is. For all we know, the defending NBA champions are going to be.
- [19:37]
Peter
Really.
- [19:37]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah. All of a sudden Indiana might become a team because they, they, they're not old, they're well coached, like. So all of a sudden this east is not maybe as winnable. Cleveland could be back. You know, there's other teams. Will Detroit get a little better?
- [19:52]
Peter
A little bit.
- [19:53]
Alan Rosenberg
You know, so it may not be as wide open as people think.
- [19:58]
Peter
Way easier, way easier than the west, man.
- [20:00]
Alan Rosenberg
Understood.
- [20:01]
Peter
West is deep.
- [20:02]
Alan Rosenberg
Understood. Want to let you know the ESPN New York's Beach Bash is back Friday, June 27th at Bar A in Lake Como, New Jersey. Head down to the Jersey shore and join the Michael K Show and US Live starting at 1pm and an appearance by Dpietro Rothenberg, Bart Carlin and more. We'll have plenty of giveaways for fans in attendance and music from Suit and Mai Tai and Overboard. It's all brought to you by Yingling Traditional Lager, Deep Eddie Vodka Schoenhoffer, Spiked Aid, Wild Fork Meats and Seafood Market and the New Jersey lottery. Must be 21 years of age or older to enter. Should I be concerned, Alan?
- [20:42]
Peter
Yeah.
- [20:43]
Alan Rosenberg
That neither of the bands reached out to me for what song I Want to sing?
- [20:47]
Peter
I think we should just. Acapella duet. The hell with the band. If they don't know to reach out to you, then. I mean, I'm down to just straight up acapella.
- [21:00]
Alan Rosenberg
We could come up with something cool.
- [21:02]
Peter
Monica.
- [21:02]
I
How about.
- [21:03]
Peter
How about if. If Peter DJs, he could do like, something background for us while. While we perform it. Who needs a band?
- [21:12]
Alan Rosenberg
Does d. Does he still have DJ equipment? Of course I do.
- [21:16]
Peter
What do you mean?
- [21:17]
E
Are you crazy?
- [21:17]
Alan Rosenberg
I don't know. You don't do that anymore.
- [21:19]
Peter
Imagine if we.
- [21:20]
E
How about I don't do that anymore.
- [21:22]
Peter
What if we did a medley and Peter, he. He cuts a track that, like, allows the medley to happen, where it's just one song, like, just blends into another song. And you and I, it's like a medley instead of one song. What do you think?
- [21:39]
Alan Rosenberg
It's gonna be hard because I. I think the music masks my true talent, which is not.
- [21:45]
Peter
Not singing.
- [21:46]
Alan Rosenberg
Singing, you know, So I. I don't know. We'd have to think about that. I. I didn't know. I didn't know Peter was still a functioning dj. I'm sorry.
- [21:51]
E
You hate this idea. You know what? You know what, Alan? This shows. It shows how.
- [21:57]
Alan Rosenberg
It'S.
- [21:57]
Peter
He doesn't follow you on Instagram.
- [21:59]
E
Well, no, not even that. Just no respect for what DJing is. It's like you would, you know, if someone always.
- [22:06]
Alan Rosenberg
I'm not doing it.
- [22:07]
E
Well, no, if someone plays guitar their whole life and, like, they. Then they get a job somewhere. It's not like, Oh, I didn't know you did that. It doesn't go away.
- [22:14]
Peter
Yeah, I didn't.
- [22:15]
Alan Rosenberg
I'm sorry. I did not know that you. I know. Listen, once a dj, always a dj. Okay?
- [22:20]
Peter
Oh, wow.
- [22:21]
Alan Rosenberg
But I didn't know that you still were active.
- [22:26]
E
I would say I only do a gig. I could go two years these days without a gig. That's fair. It can go a couple years out of you. But I. Every Sunday night. I do a DJed radio show every Sunday night. I mean, I'm pretty active.
- [22:39]
Alan Rosenberg
I'm just asking if you still had equipment that you could lug to the beach Bash to do what Alan's saying.
- [22:44]
E
Well, listen, if you mean a PA system, no, but I've never. That's been 20 years.
- [22:49]
Peter
But you don't need to do that.
- [22:51]
E
But equipment to DJ on. I have. I have. I have my turntables and a mixer. I also have a digital controller. I got all the options. I got everything.
- [22:59]
Alan Rosenberg
Apparently, I hit a Nerve now.
- [23:01]
E
I mean, it's just wrong.
- [23:03]
Peter
But are you interested in doing the medley idea that I have?
- [23:06]
E
No, no, no.
- [23:08]
Alan Rosenberg
I would be up.
- [23:09]
Peter
He's not interested.
- [23:10]
E
So I'm out.
- [23:10]
Alan Rosenberg
Be up for whatever. So he's out like John B. No, but I think we'll make it work.
- [23:16]
Peter
I think we could.
- [23:16]
E
All right, well, here's my question.
- [23:18]
Alan Rosenberg
Yes.
- [23:18]
E
Don't.
- [23:20]
Peter
We're going full podcast here now, aren't we?
- [23:21]
Alan Rosenberg
Well, you know, this. We need to break, but that's. All right. Go ahead.
- [23:25]
E
Peter, did the band. Have we used the bands before? The bands that we are using?
- [23:32]
Alan Rosenberg
No, these are new bands. We've always had new bands. And part of the process is they reach out to me. What song do you want to play? Apparently, that's off the table, so.
- [23:39]
Peter
But.
- [23:39]
E
Well, who tells them to do that?
- [23:42]
Alan Rosenberg
Well, I would think it's the same managerial people. John was in charge last year. He was the one that reached out to me. The band wants to know what you want to play. That has not happened. I'm going to say this, and Peter will tell you, I am not conceited and I do not ever promote myself. The best part of the Beach Bash now died.
- [24:04]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [24:08]
Alan Rosenberg
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [24:09]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:17]
Alan Rosenberg
I haven't heard this song. Does that sound like a reasonable timeline?
- [24:27]
E
Well, I didn't hear you.
- [24:27]
H
I didn't.
- [24:28]
E
I couldn't hear when you said how long?
- [24:29]
Alan Rosenberg
25. Oh, sure.
- [24:31]
E
It could have been. I mean, it's older than that.
- [24:35]
Peter
That song.
- [24:36]
E
Yeah, that's.
- [24:37]
Alan Rosenberg
It's.
- [24:37]
E
It's more like 35 years old.
- [24:38]
Peter
Yeah.
- [24:39]
G
God.
- [24:39]
Peter
Has to be right?
- [24:40]
Alan Rosenberg
They would play that at the. At the clubs when I would be out. Fatso Fogarty's. They play that at Fatso Fogerty's. Oh, sure, they would.
- [24:48]
Peter
They played Cypress Hill at Fatso Fogarty's.
- [24:50]
Alan Rosenberg
Oh, yeah.
- [24:51]
Peter
Love it.
- [24:52]
Alan Rosenberg
Where the. Where the. Used to. Everybody used to be able to dance on the bar, and then they just said, just the ladies.
- [24:58]
Peter
Cowboy. What is it? What was that movie?
- [25:03]
Alan Rosenberg
Urban Cowboy.
- [25:04]
Peter
No, no, no. What am. I just blanked completely?
- [25:09]
Alan Rosenberg
I don't know. Well, while you're thinking.
- [25:11]
Peter
Coyote Ugly.
- [25:12]
Alan Rosenberg
Oh, okay.
- [25:13]
E
You found your way.
- [25:15]
Peter
I got there.
- [25:17]
Alan Rosenberg
What was the name of the star of that movie? She had a weak. A wacky name. Wacky first name. I can't think of it, but you know.
- [25:25]
Peter
What a page. Yeah, it's been a Million years since I've.
- [25:28]
E
Penelope.
- [25:29]
Alan Rosenberg
No, no, no, it was even wackier than that.
- [25:32]
Peter
Did you just randomly say that?
- [25:35]
E
I'm just guessing. Peas.
- [25:36]
Peter
Yeah. Oh, Piper.
- [25:38]
Alan Rosenberg
Piper. That's Piper Perabo.
- [25:40]
Peter
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:42]
Alan Rosenberg
That's a wacky name. She almost have to be hot, right, to be a Piper?
- [25:47]
Peter
Piper's become a very popular girl name in the last century.
- [25:51]
E
Yes. Now say century.
- [25:54]
Peter
Quarter century.
- [25:55]
Alan Rosenberg
Well, yeah, century. 25 years. Last time I heard, Cyprus century. So we gave you the quotes from Brunson and Hart.
- [26:06]
Peter
Yeah.
- [26:06]
Alan Rosenberg
And Alan said, well, we don't have tone. Well, guess what? We've got tone.
- [26:09]
Peter
We got tone. All right, let me hear tone. That's what I need to hear.
- [26:12]
J
Yeah. This is my first firing. Obviously I've known him my entire life, but I remember having conversations and moments with him when I was in eighth grade when we moved to Chicago and just to see where we are now helped me become two time all Star. Two time all NBA. The things he's done for me, obviously individually I'm so grateful for just because he had, he had that confidence in me that like I knew I had. But like, it's great to see someone push it, push you to be better. Obviously. I have my dad and he always, he believes me more than anyone. Him and mom believes me more than anyone. But like to have Tibbs and to do what he did for my career, I'm just so grateful and thankful for and so, yeah, not enough things can be said about what he's meant to myself, my career.
- [26:54]
I
Tibbs is my sixth coach in eight years. The NBA coaching, you know, profession is, it's tough and whenever you, you guys don't, you know, finish kind of how you want it or expect it. Like I said, there's always going to be changes. It's, you know, that was a tough one. But I just think there should be nothing but, but praise for his, him and his time in New York.
- [27:16]
J
I agree 100%.
- [27:17]
Alan Rosenberg
All right, let me ask you this guys. That's what shows better leadership from a Brunson standpoint. Me here to side with Tibbs or sign with, side with his teammates.
- [27:31]
Peter
That's a great point.
- [27:35]
Alan Rosenberg
What shows a sign of a better leader?
- [27:39]
Peter
It's such a delicate line to walk. I kind of think about it because there were report like and I don't, I don't know how much I buy this because I find this stuff to be annoying. You don't know who's saying it, but there were some reports about how like some players didn't love the fact that Rick Brunson's on the staff, and it's like, you know, that's. His dad is like, the. The top assistant. And like, that stuff gets so For. For Jalen, it's probably a delicate line he's got to walk here, because that's why I said what I said earlier. It's like, part of me wishes that Jalen's like, you know what? I don't love this. Like. Like, this guy's done nothing but win. Like, you know, it's a business. This stuff happens. But. But. But he. What he did was he did the right thing, did the classy thing, praise the guy, and then we got to go forward. Like, let's move on, but let's make sure that I make it clear. Like, his last words before this stuff, right, Was, are you really asking me, is Tibbs the coach? Is he the. Right. Yeah. Yeah. My answer is yes. And he was definitive. So. But you're. It's such a great question, Don, because really, if Brunson came out and tore into his teammates and then basically said, well, whoever comes in here, he's not the one under. Under fire. This room now carries the responsibility of winning because of the choice that was made here. Right? Like, he could say that, but he's not established enough yet. Even with all the things that Jalen has done, I don't think he's at that place yet that he could say something so bold publicly. But it certainly does feel that way.
- [29:14]
Alan Rosenberg
What do you think, Peter?
- [29:17]
E
I'm just still digesting the tone that we got from Brunson and Hart. I sensed it as really personal to them and slightly awkward, but I also can't tell whether. And tell me if you guys know what I mean. There was a certain level of like, yeah, we know more than we're leading on.
- [29:39]
Peter
Yes, yes.
- [29:40]
E
So we're giving you a version of our real feelings, but we gotta be protective with how we say it, and.
- [29:48]
Peter
Such a great point, Peter. Yes.
- [29:50]
Alan Rosenberg
And you know what, guys? Both could be true. Like, Brunson can be like, I love him. I've known him since I was in eighth grade. I wouldn't be the basketball player I am today without him, but I don't want him coaching me anymore. Like, both could be true. You know, sometimes your time is done. I mean, that's usually how most of these coaches go. It's like, all right, why do all these great coaches. I was talking about it during the K show. Like, why does Peter Laviolette. Like, I'm listing all the Things he's done. And I'm also listing, like seven teams because you do wear out your welcome sometimes. It's just time, you know, you begin to lose the room. The message is, you've heard it so many times. It's like the fresh start. And so, yeah, you can love somebody, but you know what? It's just time. And maybe they're so. They are telling the truth. Everybody just applies two plus two equals four. Well, if you love him so much, why is he your coach? Because I don't want him to be my coach anymore.
- [30:47]
Peter
Well, remember, I think I said it here. I know I was saying it to a friend of mine who's with the Knicks, and we were talking about it and I just said the last couple of years has felt sort of like this was like a family thing, right? Like, it felt. Look at the Villanova guys. The. The Tibbs, Leon Rose connection to the past and just felt like this team had a different vibe about them. They didn't feel like NBA business guys all going in their different directions. This felt like, like a family kind of thing. And it slipped a little when, When Divincenzo and Randall were traded away. You lost a little, little, little bit of it. And now this feels like it's gone. Now it's a re. Now it's an NBA team. They're going to bring in a coach who's, you know, it's there. You don't have the I've known him since I was seven years old kind of situation. And maybe it's now back to business. And maybe you could say they needed to get there, right? They too close and too familiar. And now I don't want to yell at you because personally I love you, but this ain't right. I need to tell you that. But I don't want to call you out in front of the team. And maybe it's like, like, like it's almost like being coached by your father. Eventually you just don't want to be coached by your dad because you just want to get yelled at and not have it carry, you know, I don't want to go home and then have to look at you. Right? Yeah, maybe that's. Maybe that's what's happening. I don't know. But Peter made a really good point. That tone did sort of sound like there's more here, but we're not going to tell you.
- [32:19]
Alan Rosenberg
Kyle and Ron Konkoma, you're on ESPN New York. Hey, Kyle. Kyle lost. Kyle.
- [32:26]
Peter
He gone.
- [32:27]
Alan Rosenberg
So we're going to try George in Tacoma. How about that? You're on ESPN New York.
- [32:34]
K
Hey, guys, listen, if this is Clue on what happened and on who whacked Thibodeau, it's becoming much more clear that it was Dolan in a conference room with $30 million because players, I mean, Brunson can't say it was Dolan. But it seems so reactionary because it happened so quickly. All those things couldn't have happened unless Dolan just came in over the top and said, fire him to Leon Rose. Because Leon Rose has been so buttoned up that firing him and making the announcement, the time that they made the announcement makes no sense. I see. So, mom, they could do all this back channeling without anybody knowing about it?
- [33:20]
Peter
Well, you can't if they're going to tell the world that you're back channeling.
- [33:25]
K
That's a Dolan move. And the reason that's important is because it seemed like Dolan just handed over to Leon Rose and the Knicks got better. But now Dolan's back, and we know that his track record was terrible.
- [33:37]
Peter
He didn't go anywhere, number one, Number two. And George, if you don't want to trust me, then do you trust other reporters who have all said the same thing, that this was a player driven and final decision? Leon Rose?
- [33:52]
K
I don't. Because if you listen to.
- [33:54]
Peter
So everybody's making it up. Yes.
- [33:58]
K
They don't know because they're getting the same feed from where everybody's getting the same feed from the same place. But it's what the priority marketing department is doing. It's putting out this. Putting out this line, this log line, that this is what happened. So Jalen Branson just told us it's.
- [34:16]
Peter
Not what happened, but that's not what.
- [34:18]
K
None of it makes any sense to me because it happened too quickly. It happened within. What was it, 24 hours later?
- [34:25]
Peter
No, it wasn't 24 hours later. It wasn't 24 hours. They were players and then came out of those meetings with players feeling like this can't go. This can't continue forward. And that's also.
- [34:37]
Alan Rosenberg
George, I'm telling you, the. The Garden doesn't have that kind of relationship with the media where they're going to, you know, give off information and use the media for their.
- [34:49]
Peter
That's not how they.
- [34:50]
Alan Rosenberg
That's not how they're run. I'm telling you.
- [34:52]
Peter
Yeah, how it works, I like. I know it sounds good. And again, I understand there's a lot of fans and a lot of people who just see it as a corporation and this is how corporations operate. That's not really how the Garden operates it. They don't help you with anything when it comes to, when you're a beat writer. They don't. All right, this is how it all went down. That you have to get that from other resources. And, and I can also tell you that there's, there's four main beat writers now. It used to be, we used to have like seven on the beat. Now there's four. Four guys you can trust that cover the team every single day, all the time. All four of them are not going to have the same thing because all four of them have different, their own different people they talk to. And, and by the way, there's always going to be one that doesn't want to follow the quote unquote company line. There's always going to be guys that are like, okay, if that's what the team's feeding me, I'm going to get the real information. And so like I understand it's the easy thing to do. And as I said earlier, the Knicks as a franchise over the last 25 years have earned this reputation. They have earned this the they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Leon Rose has brought stability that has been in an instable situation for many years. But this type of stuff, until we get an end game, until we see the end result of who the coach is and all that stuff they're always going to, the first instinct will always be dysfunction and disaster. That's just what people want to believe. Because more times than not over the last 25 years that really has been the case.
- [36:32]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [36:36]
Alan Rosenberg
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [36:37]
Don Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [36:45]
Alan Rosenberg
Game Time is brought to you by Tumblerdew Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, boys.
- [36:56]
Peter
And standing up, I like when he holds it.
- [37:02]
Alan Rosenberg
Mets beat the Nationals 43 but they lose. Kodai Senga. He goes on the 10 day il because of a strained hamstring. Yankees will finish up their series with the Royals and KC at 7:40. And NYC FC plays host to Atlanta at Yankee Stadium at 7:30. Also have game four of the Stanley Cup Final tonight between the Panthers and the Oilers. Florida leads that series two games to one. Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullimore Dew Honey during today's action glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. Ready for more calls, boys?
- [37:34]
Peter
Let's go.
- [37:35]
Alan Rosenberg
All right, let's do Dennis and center reach. You're on ESPN New York.
- [37:39]
H
Hey guys, how you doing? Earlier in the hour, you guys were talking about why people weren't watching the NBA Finals. And personally, this is the reason why I think no one's watching it. If you look at the top two guys on each team, you know SGA and Halliburton, you know, they're point guards and they don't do anything like extraordinary, right? They're not a great three point shooter like Steph Curry. They're not seven feet tall and could pass like Magic Johnson, like Jokic, they're just. What do people say about sga? You know, he's a foul merchant, Halliburton, I don't think he's a superstar. I think he's like a mid tier all star. He's like a second level point guard and something interesting. This is off the top of my head, but I know I'm right. Since 2007, the only point guard to win Finals MVP is Steph Curry. And it was on his fourth try, right? It was Iguodal and Durant for the other two. So Alan, do you think that a. That shows that point guard's the least valuable of the five positions? And also can the Knicks win a championship with Brunson as the number one option?
- [38:35]
Peter
I don't think. I think point guards, I think point guard is incredibly important because for years I've begged the Knicks to find one. I, I just think in, especially in today's NBA, you need that guy who can generate offense. So I, I would not say that whatsoever. I do find that interesting though, that, that. But I mean, the. What has it been Giannis, it's been jokic, it's been LeBron, right? Like it's been all the superstars, the MVPs. So they're, they're really. If you think about it, Jokic is the point guard of his team, right? Like, let's be honest, like he, the offense runs through him. Those teams didn't have like the true bonafide lead point guards. Do I think Jalen Brunson can be a championship point guard? Yes, I absolutely do. Do I think he needs more help? Of course, like everybody else does. Every player, right, wins a championship, needs talent around him. It's why the Thunder lost last night. SGA was taken out and no one else stepped up. But the other thing that you say is the other thing you said though, is really interesting about what this series is lacking. I think you're right. I don't think there's any. And I used it earlier, I don't think there's any celebrities in this thing. It's. Basketball is great. And, you know, whoever wins, whoever wins the, whoever's named Finals MVP if the Pacers win, should hand the trophy to Rick Carlisle because that's really who the MVP is.
- [40:06]
Alan Rosenberg
He's a difference maker. He certainly is.
- [40:08]
Peter
Clearly.
- [40:09]
Alan Rosenberg
And I think we all whiffed on the Pacers because we don't think enough about the coaching and the impact the coaching can have in a series. It's always about the players and what their regular season was and how do they match up during the regular season. All that got thrown away this year, right? Knicks beat the Celtics after getting crushed pretty much in every meeting during the regular season. So you throw out the records, you throw out how they played against each other. It's all about how you're playing going in or just the matchups. That's what I always get told in sport. Everybody just kind of ignores the matchup. How do you match up? And boy, the Pacers just seem to match up because I think they're winning the face off at coach. And I think that's what fooled the Knicks into thinking they need to do better at coach. It's not really about Tibbs, it's just how good Carlisle is.
- [40:57]
Peter
Think about it. He had, he had the Thunder, who had the most wins going into the finals since. I think the, the warriors team that won 73 games, like they, by the way, they were insane. And he changed his starting lineup. He blinked first.
- [41:16]
Alan Rosenberg
Yeah.
- [41:17]
Peter
Think about that. The team that no one could beat thought their lineup needed to be changed to play this Pacer team. That says a lot.
- [41:25]
Alan Rosenberg
Nick said it too.
- [41:26]
Peter
Yeah, and that's good point. You're right.
- [41:28]
E
And in a weird way, it's a, it's a tough reflection on Tibbs too. Not, not that, not that you should feel bad about being out coached by Rick Carlisle, but that nobody can deny you were out coached by Rick Carlisle. Can't get around it.
- [41:43]
Alan Rosenberg
But you know what, Think of the path that he took to get here. You know, Tibbs wasn't the only victim. You know, it could be end up being everybody too. So I just think, I think we underrated the Pacers and I do still think guys that the Knicks themselves have overrated their own team. Maybe they're not as close as they think, you know.
- [42:10]
E
So wait, are you telling me they.
- [42:11]
Peter
Think that if they had gotten more out of the bench, they could have been. But the Pacers are showing the Thunder that even though everybody thought OKC was a deep team, the Pacers are saying it's still not as deep as we are.
- [42:25]
E
Are you telling me, and we said this earlier in the week, but, like, could Rick Carlisle not have done this with the Knicks? Are the players not physically capable of what Carlisle's gotten from his players?
- [42:39]
Peter
It's a good question.
- [42:40]
E
I mean, I know that the Knicks. I'll tell you this, the Knicks don't have a Siakam, but they. But they have versions of kind of everybody else. I mean, not. Not everybody, but. But they have a good team. With a bunch of guys you think would be able to handle that kind of play. It's not like they don't have a. It's not like there's not a guy who can play the McConnell role on that team. They have hard workers who can do that. Like, I don't see how Carlisle couldn't have at least gotten something representative with this group. And that's tough for Tibbs.
- [43:11]
Peter
Yeah, I think that's fair. And that's, again, why we are where we are right now and why they're trying to find somebody that would coach that way.
- [43:20]
Alan Rosenberg
Right. And then that's why I say the Rangers are a cautionary tale. Because if the next coach doesn't do it, are you just going to keep looking for the coach, or are you going to look from within and say, we're just not good enough?
- [43:30]
Peter
Yeah.
- [43:31]
Alan Rosenberg
And then how many more years get wasted before you finally realize we got to blow this thing up or we got to make even more changes to get it done? Very interesting stuff. Speaking of interesting, ENN is up next right here on ESPN New York.
- [43:47]
Peter
But before we get to ENN everybody, I'd like to reintroduce myself. Alan Hahn here. And I want to tell you about my friends at Bath Fitter. They remodeled the bath in my house. My wife Stephanie's excited about this because we had this old bathroom that was just. Nobody used it. An old bathtub that nobody used, but we put a pool in, and we're like, we need to use this bathroom. And no one wants to use this bathtub or this shower or anything else. So we converted this old tub into this gorgeous shower, so now we can use it in the summer when guests use the pool to clean off the chlorine and when the kids have sleepovers, it's perfect. So a Bath Fitter consultant took us through the process with this free in home consultation. They came in and Stephanie got to pick the style, the color and all the specifics and accessories to update our bath customized. That's just the way she wanted it. Now Bad Fitter worked fast two days done. Delivered the highest quality work with no delay. Now Bad Fitter for those who are wondering, this is a permanent solution. It's a one piece seamless wall that gives you a watertight fit and most importantly, lifetime guarantee. How many things in life are lifetime guarantees? This is you can trust the Bath Fitter team like we did. They've been in business for 40 years with millions of happy customers and right now is the perfect time for you to get yours done. Why? No interest, no payments until 2027. You can't afford not to do this. Start designing your bath like we did. Visit bathfitter.com for more details. There's only one bat fitter.
- [45:21]
Don Hahn
Thanks for listening to Madonna and Rosenberg podcast.
- [45:24]
Peter
I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good.
- [45:27]
Don Hahn
Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.