Hour 3: Proposed NFL Rules

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 3: Proposed NFL Rules

Release Date: March 19, 2025

---

Introduction

In the third hour of the "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" podcast, hosts Don Hahn and Dan Rosenberg delve deep into the proposed changes to NFL rules, focusing primarily on overtime modifications and the contentious issue of tie games. The discussion is enriched with insights from an unnamed sports analyst and interactions with callers, providing a comprehensive overview of the current debates surrounding NFL regulations.

---

1. Overview of Proposed NFL Rule Changes

The episode kicks off with Dan Rosenberg introducing the topic of NFL rule changes, specifically highlighting proposals from the Packers, Eagles, and Lions.

Dan Rosenberg (00:57):

"The good news is he's gonna be all right. He's just not alright enough to work... We talked about that. Knicks in San Antonio, little NCAA tournament sprinkled in. A little baseball sprinkled in. But wanted to get into the football."

2. The 'Tush Push' Controversy

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the "tush push," a play popularized by the Eagles but criticized by the Packers.

Don Hahn (08:57):

"The Packers listed player safety and pace of play as reasons for requiring the rule change... I don't know why. You just can't aid a ball carrier like we had just a couple of years ago."

Unnamed Sports Analyst (10:04):

"The thing about the tush push to me is... We're going to penalize one team who can master this while the 31 other ones still just can't quite get a grip on it."

The hosts debate the effectiveness and fairness of penalizing a successful strategy used predominantly by one team, drawing parallels to the NHL's trapezoid rule.

Dan Rosenberg (10:37):

"It's like the trapezoid of the NHL... They want to stop the Eagles from doing it because they're good at it."

3. Aligning Postseason and Regular Season Overtime Rules

The Eagles have proposed aligning postseason and regular season overtime rules to ensure fairness and competitive equity.

Don Hahn (11:25):

"They have proposed granting both teams an opportunity to possess the ball regardless of the outcome of the first possession."

However, Dan Rosenberg raises concerns about the implementation of these changes due to scheduling constraints and potential extension of game times.

Dan Rosenberg (12:27):

"They don't want 1 o'clock games to go to 5 o'clock. They don't want the 4:25 to spill into the Sunday night window."

4. The Debate on Tie Games

A heated debate unfolds regarding the acceptability of tie games in the NFL. Don Hahn expresses his disdain for ties, while the unnamed sports analyst counters his views.

Don Hahn (16:26):

"I hate how... [ties] look in the standings. I abhor ties."

Unnamed Sports Analyst (16:28):

"I hate ties. I think they look ugly in the standings. Ugly."

Dan Rosenberg offers a contrasting perspective, arguing that ties are better than losses and can have strategic implications for team standings.

Dan Rosenberg (17:08):

"I hate ties, but a tie could help or hinder you, depending on how things break down."

The discussion further explores personal experiences and opinions on tie games, emphasizing their rarity and the emotional impact they carry.

Unnamed Sports Analyst (25:14):

"I've never been more prepared, ever."

Dan Rosenberg (26:10):

"I hate ties all you want, but the one thing that blows my mind, I'd rather lose."

5. Caller Interactions and Diverse Opinions

The podcast features interactions with callers who share their perspectives on the proposed NFL rules and tie games.

Caller 1 (23:48):

"I wanted to fully agree with Dan here... I would want to know what the end result was. I feel like that's the whole point of sports, to have a winner and a loser."

Dan Rosenberg (24:18):

"But the end result was a tie. It was decided on the field."

Caller 2 (37:32):

"I’d rather tie than lose... It's a result."

These exchanges highlight the divided opinions among fans and analysts regarding the necessity and aesthetics of tie games.

6. Potential Impact on NFL Season and Playoffs

The hosts and analyst discuss how the proposed rule changes could influence the NFL season's dynamics and playoff qualifications.

Dan Rosenberg (28:57):

"A loss never helps you, but a tie could help you."

Unnamed Sports Analyst (34:28):

"There were 494 [games] that went to overtime. How many of them ended in ties? 10, 17, which is 3.4%."

This segment underscores the minimal occurrence of tie games and debates their significance in the broader context of the NFL standings and playoff races.

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Don Hahn and Dan Rosenberg reflect on the discussions, acknowledging the complexity of balancing player safety, game fairness, and viewer satisfaction within NFL rule changes.

Dan Rosenberg (45:30):

"Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers."

The hosts express anticipation for future episodes where these topics may continue to evolve, especially as teams and the league respond to the proposed changes.

---

Notable Quotes

• Dan Rosenberg (10:37):
  "It's like the trapezoid of the NHL... They want to stop the Eagles from doing it because they're good at it."

• Don Hahn (08:57):
  "I don't know why. You just can't aid a ball carrier like we had just a couple of years ago."

• Unnamed Sports Analyst (16:28):
  "I hate ties. I think they look ugly in the standings. Ugly."

• Dan Rosenberg (17:08):
  "I hate ties all you want, but the one thing that blows my mind, I'd rather lose."

• Caller 1 (23:48):
  "I feel like that's the whole point of sports, to have a winner and a loser."

---

Final Thoughts

Hour 3 of "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" offers an in-depth exploration of proposed NFL rule changes, with particular emphasis on overtime procedures and the controversial nature of tie games. Through spirited debates and diverse viewpoints, the hosts and guests dissect the potential implications of these changes on the sport, highlighting the delicate balance the NFL must maintain between innovation and tradition.

Transcript

[Allstate]

Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like you know to check the Jumbotron first before attempting to eat a stack of Supreme Nachos in one bite. Now you're just a meme that everyone shares on game day. Checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Savings vary, subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Dan Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers, Don.

[Dan Rosenberg]

And Dan here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg. Peter feeling under the weather. He's gonna be out for the rest of the week. Alan Hahn will be back on Friday. He's traveling with the Knicks. He's got Nick spurs duty and then he's got to travel to Charlotte.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

So it's never a good thing though like when a guy gets injured. Like he gets injured and right away they rule him out for the remainder of the trip. For example, like he's already ruled out for the rest of the week.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Not because he's, you know, you heard him yesterday, he's sick.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I know.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I feel bad.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Thoughts and prayers, man.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, I don't think it's to that level.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Please. Out for the rest of the week.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah, but well, thoughts and prayers suggest that like there is, we're sitting in the, you know, like legitimately sit in.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

The waiting room or whatever.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah. That.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Hoping for good news.

[Dan Rosenberg]

The good news is he's gonna be all right. He's just not alright enough to work and if you heard him yesterday, you shouldn't be overly surprised by that. And you did, did a good job filling in. I appreciate that yesterday Rangers didn't show. I showed up to the game. The Rangers not so much. We talked about that. Knicks in San Antonio, little NCAA tournament sprinkled in. A little baseball sprinkled in. But wanted to get into the football. We'll get into the Aaron Rodgers apparently Minnesota not interested. It really just sounded to me, Dan, like they wanted a little bit more information on JJ McCarthy. They're good to start him but maybe they weren't really sure if he, if his knee was right. It sounds like they, they know it's going to be right because that, that's to be interested in Aaron Rodgers and then not to be with nothing really changing with your quarterback name at least. It was basically just, I Guess his condition, if he's all right to go play and then he can play, we don't need Aaron Rodgers. So I, that if those reports are true, that that to me tells me, I guess he cleared whatever he needed to clear medically. JJ's ready to start. He was their first round pick last year. No need for Aaron Rodgers. But that's the latest that apparently Minnesota out on Rodgers. So then it just becomes the Giants and the Steelers and it's the same question that we've had forever is why would Rogers pick the Giants over the Steelers? Why.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Aside from geography and aside that he has the house here. I can't think of any good reason whatsoever.

[Dan Rosenberg]

And listen, I'm a Giant fan, okay? But it is what it is. I mean, even if you believe the Giants did a good job in free agency, which I think they did, and say they decide to draft even a weapon at three with their schedule and the work that they have to do, you know, I think they'd be lucky to win seven, eight games. And if they draft a quarterback, which they might do at three, then Aaron Rodgers just a placeholder. So sometime during the course of the season, like what happened with Kurt Warner and Eli Manning, all of a sudden week seven or eight, he sit and ride in a pine as a backup quarterback. Where in Pittsburgh. Not only are the Steelers a better team, but he doesn't have any competition there. Rudolph's not going to take his job. He will be the starting quarterback the full 2025 season, which I think is way more enticing. So I don't know, unless the Giants just fork over like $10 million more or something. But even then, what would money mean to Aaron Rodgers? If he wants to play, he wants to play.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Right?

[Dan Rosenberg]

He doesn't need the money. So the Giants. The only way the Giants would be able to offer him all 17 games is if they didn't draft a quarterback. Well, the other thing, know that signing with them so he'd have, I would think he'd have to go under the assumption that that still is a possibility, which makes the Giants less attractive.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Well, here's the thing. Done. They, they put out the full court press for Matthew Stafford, Right? That did happen. Oh, okay. They were prepared to give him $50 million a year over the next two years to come in and play quarterback for them, correct?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yes. Okay.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

That would tell me that's a win. Now move, because you're not giving a guy $50 million to mine the store until you draft and develop a rookie. It tells me two things. Number one, they don't necessarily love this crop of rookie quarterbacks or else you wouldn't pay a guy $100 million over the next two years to play quarterback. Number two, what it also tells me is that that is a win now design move because these two gentlemen are trying to keep their jobs, which is no secret, which means to them they need to win games. So if that's the case, Don, if you're going to give Matthew Stafford that money or bring in a guy like Aaron Rodgers as a win now move. If you're sitting there at number three in the draft, why would you draft a quarterback who's not going to play this year? Aren't you going to draft a guy who you could put on the field day one that can help you win games this year?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, unless you don't think they're ready to do that now. I think the Giants are trying to do two things. And to me, in life, when you're trying to do two things, you're doing nothing is I'm going to try to win as many games as I can to save my job. But I also want to draft a young quarterback so we have a future because a quarterback that's going to turn 42 in December isn't buying green bananas. So I need to think about my future. I still think there's a scenario where that could happen. But you are also then bypassing a chance to draft somebody at 3 that can help you win now. So they'll be trying to do two things. Having Aaron Rodgers groom a young quarterback is not the worst thing. But convince me that Aaron Rodgers would be willing to do that when he can go to Pittsburgh and be a number one quarterback on a team that's not guaranteed to make the playoffs. He's still in a tough division where Baltimore and Cincinnati reside, but still they routinely win above.500. Right. So they're going to be a winning team that'll be right on the cusp of a playoff. And the Giants are a dysfunctional franchise that might get blown up at the end of this season. So Rogers could theoretically, Dan, go out and play two seasons with Pittsburgh if he stays healthy.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I think personally, the way he wanted this whole thing to unfold, I think he wanted to go to Minnesota only because out of the three options, Minnesota obviously gives you the best chance to win.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Right?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Right. They're the most talented team. The quarterback, the head coach, you know, it's an offensive mind in Kevin O'Connell. The Pittsburgh Giants situation, I think comes down to two different things. Number one, you go to Pittsburgh and say what you want about Mike Tomlin. I know they haven't won a playoff game in a good number of years now, but Mike Tomlin's got a handle on that operation, whether you like him or not. It's his program, it's his ship, and he's not ceding control to Aaron Rodgers in any way, shape or form. Aaron Rodgers, at least the last couple of years, was used to doing things his way. Jets let him do what he want, run an offense the way he wants, everything. Giants might be a little bit more accommodating as far as that's concerned. And maybe that's what Aaron Rodgers is struggling with right now, with this decision, not whether or not I want to play or not, but whether or not do I want to go to Pittsburgh. And even though it's a more stable situation, I'm going to have to fall in line to the way they do things as opposed to if I could go to the Giants. They're so desperate to win football games that I could basically do whatever the hell I want.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Now, I don't know he'll be given that kind of power, but he certainly will be given a little bit more than I think he would be given in Pittsburgh. And the other thing that might favor the Giants is, you know, Dable's an offensive guy. He might like what they're doing because Pittsburgh seems to be like where offense goes to die. Right. It's not exactly a team that is modern when it comes to offense, although they did go out and get Metcalf. So you would think they're going to throw the ball a little bit more.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

And the offensive line stinks in Pittsburgh.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, listen, it's not much better in New York, but. But the Giants did improve it through free agency. But we've, we've. We've been through that before. They thought they improved it last year, and it didn't seem to help. But I do think sometimes, at least with the Giants, is that offensive line play is more dictated by the lack of play from the quarterback than it was the lack of protection. Sometimes an offensive line is only as good as the quarterback they're protecting. And Daniel Jones wasn't. Wasn't great last year.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

So you got Russell Wilson's problem in Pittsburgh. Russell Wilson kind of runs into a lot of sacks.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

You know, he's one of the most sacked quarterbacks, and you would think he has some mobility, but no, because he doesn't read the pocket well. If it breaks down sometimes he's his own worst enemy when it comes to that. But Aaron Rodgers isn't fleet of foot at this stage of his career either.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Now, the rule changes. I thought this was really interesting. Three teams, Packers, Eagles and Lions, had ideas. So let me throw these at you, and I want to get your reaction to them. All right? Tush push has been something that's been talked about forever. The packers have the biggest problem with it. What they propose is that a rule would prohibit an offensive player from pushing a teammate who was lined up directly behind the snapper and receives a snap immediately at the snap. If adopted, the rule would make it illegal for NFL teams to run the tush push. Polarized by Popularized by the Eagles, the Packers listed player, safety and pace of play as reasons for requiring the rule change. I don't know why. I just can't say. You can't aid a ball carrier like we had just a couple of years ago. You know where you lose me, Dan? Pace of play. What does pace of play have to do with anything? I get the player safety. We saw what happened in the super bowl with the injury, but pace of play.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

The thing about the tush push to me is I understand that, you know, everybody's screaming bloody murder over it, but you notice, Don, how the Eagles are the only ones that work this to perfection. Like, other teams try it, too. Like Buffalo tried it, remember? But everybody knows when Buffalo does it, they just run to the left and then Josh Allen ends up getting stuffed, which ultimately cost them a chance to go to the super bowl to some degree, like we saw in the championship game. But. But like. So we're going to penalize one team who can master this while the 31 other ones still just can't quite get a grip on it.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah, that's where you kind of look. The thing that I. The comp that I brought up is the trapezoid of the NHL that was put in for Brodeur. He was like one of two or three goaltenders that could actually be a third defenseman and handle the puck. The rest of the league couldn't do it, but they wanted to stop him from doing it, so they put in the trapezoid. They want to stop the Eagles from doing it because they're good at it. Giants tried it and they lost two offensive linemen on the play. You're right. So I don't like it. But it's not like everybody's doing it to the. To the rate. I think what was. Anthony, you had the stat was something in the vicinity of. I think the Eagles were successful like 87% of the time. The rest of the league was like 76. So it does work at a pretty high percentage, but I just didn't understand the pace of play. But that, that's what the.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah, that makes no, that, that part makes no sense. No pace of play.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Whether. Whether it's a tush push or it's. It a quarterback sneak, it's not taking up any extra time whatever. Now, here's what the Eagles propose. This is their rule change they want. The Eagles have proposed a resolution that would align the postseason and regular season overtime rules. Philadelphia's proposition would result in granting both teams an opportunity to possess the ball regardless of the outcome of the first possession, subject to a 15 minute overtime period in the regular season. That aligns with the format present presently used by the NFL during the postseason. The Eagles highlighted competitive equity as the reason for the proposal. I. I don't. I don't mind this, but here's the issue that nobody ever brings up. The reason that they don't do it in the regular season or is the. The 15 minute thing is because they don't want it to spill into the 425 window.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Right.

[Dan Rosenberg]

They don't want 1 o'clock games to go to 5 o'clock. That's the problem. And they also don't want the 425 to spill into the Sunday night window. So if you play a full 15 minutes, you're guaranteeing possessions the game's gonna last longer and you're gonna have an issue. That's where I think there's no chance that this would be passed because the other overtime rule, it's quicker. There's only 10 minutes. So they want to make sure those 1 o'clock don't spill in the 425 and the 425 spilling 8 o'clock, even.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Though they chalked it up as player safety as to why did they cut the overtime to 10 minutes, which is a bunch of, you know what, like you said, safety.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah, but you know, so that, that, that's that issue. And I mean, I would, by the.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Way, because I hate ties. I abhor ties. I just. They look disgusting in the standings when you see them. It ruins it.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I hate how hey is revealed. We've never heard. I've never heard this. This.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

We never had this conversation before. No, I hate ties. I've spoken about this publicly many times.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Wow. Hey, I didn't know you were that Adam. So like hockey too? You didn't like the NFL?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

You only play 17 games. It's much worse. No, I'm just strictly the NFL.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I gotta be honest with you. I. I root for ties.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Why?

[Dan Rosenberg]

If I don't have a dog in a fight, I'm watching a game. I want to see that kind of chaos. I want to see what's going to happen. Like it doesn't have an end that often.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

It doesn't have a conclusion. Did you. Did you like.

[Dan Rosenberg]

It's a tie. It's a conclusion.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Did you like when the screen went black without any resolution?

[Dan Rosenberg]

That's not. Don't compare it to the end of Sopranos. Because sports aren't supposed to be subjective. Think the ending is going to be.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

It was interpretive. Just like if you have a tie game I think they played, what's the result?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Resulted in a tie. That's. That's the result. Why is that not a result?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Because it's like you go to a movie, you sit there and you're watching it for two and a half hours, and then the screen cuts off. No, you want to know how to.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Say you feel unfulfilled. You're saying is that. You're comparing it to a movie that doesn't have an ending. This had an ending. The ending was a tie, but the tie is satisfied.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

You like that, though.

[Dan Rosenberg]

It's a. It's a result. What do you. What are you supposed to do? All right, they played to a tie. Now there's a one. It's. It's not something you see every day. They just played a full 60 minutes. And if the regular season stays the same, it ends up being. They played 70 minutes and the game's tied. That's the result.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I hate it.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I mean, you could hate it, but don't compare it to something that doesn't have an ending. It did have an ending and ended in a tie. That's.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I don't mind the hockey ties. I just hate the football. Always have hated the football tie.

[Dan Rosenberg]

But I.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Since I was.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I don't like what. What's the difference?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I just don't like it. Because when you first of all remember, for much of my Life, you played 16 games. Nice even number. 16 games. And then if you had like the. The 8, 7, and 1 mixed in there, 11, 5, or, you know, 10, 5 and 1. It just. It looked odd.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh, but all right. So optically it looked odd. But you know what? You didn't win, but you also didn't lose. So nine, seven, and one, like the Giants were a couple of years ago is better than 9 and 8. Not as good as 10 and 7. Like, I. It's. I don't understand you saying it doesn't have a result. That's the result. And it makes things, you know, you know, fairly interesting to Now. And here's the other thing, too, that if you do have a tie and you're going up for a tie breaker, no pun intended, with a team that didn't have a tie, it's easy to figure out instead of these, like, fugazi. Different ways we've got to go to, like, point differential to determine who goes to the playoffs or not or, God forbid, a coin flip. Now I know if I'm tied as long as the other team I'm chasing after didn't have a tie. We're going to figure it out. Somebody's going to the playoffs and somebody's going home. And it was. And it was decided on the field. Not something like stupid fugazi tiebreaker. They came up with strength of schedule and all the other garbage that we go through at the end of every football season. I don't have to worry about it.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I like a winner and a loser.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I. But sometimes I don't want. I don't want to sound like white men can't jump. You know, sometimes when you win, you lose. Sometimes when you lose, you win. And sometimes at the tie, it's a tie. You played, you. You exhausted everything there was at that moment, couldn't decide a winner. That's not interesting to you?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

No.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Two guys compete. Two teams compete and they were that even that you determine the winner.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

You have a split decision sometimes in boxing or whatever, right? You go to the cards, you go to the judges. You have a winner judged.

[Dan Rosenberg]

This is it. Whoever scores the most points, win. You had 70 minutes to decide. You couldn't decide it. You get a tie.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Now we should go to a judge, arbitrary judge.

[Dan Rosenberg]

You want that? All right, well, you know what? We're going to give the Eagles the win because they had more yards. Or we're going to give the Giants the win because they had less turnovers. Or we're going to give the Bengals the win because they had less penalties. Listen, you played. And when on the other thing, too. And John Winthrop, our pinhead suits. I'd rather lose than tie, moron. You'd rather tie than lose.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

So he basically.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Because at least a tie is better than a loss.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

But you don't feel anything after.

[Dan Rosenberg]

What do you mean you don't feel. You felt the tie.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

You don't. This isn't a hockey tie. This isn't like 1:1. After 65 minutes with the Hartford Whalers because nobody could score, you get a point.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I thought you find it interesting with how long the game is played, all the different ways you could score. You're right. And based in hockey, there's only one way to score. It's putting the puck in the net, right? So you're going to have games where it's scoreless or one one tie. But football, there's so many different ways to score. Touchdowns, field goals, safeties. 70 minutes. Couldn't put a side a winner. That's interesting to me. And ends up being a tie.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Are you anti the extra five minutes then?

[Dan Rosenberg]

No, not that I'm anti the extra five minutes, but you came out and said, I hate Ty.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I hate. I can. I can be in favor of the extra five minutes and then also hate ties.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, listen, I hate. I would not want to. I mean, I. But I hate the shootout. I'd rather, as a hockey fan, I'd rather two teams play for 65 minutes. All right, you know what? Final scores. Two. Two. All right, go home. Everybody gets a point. Rather than having a stupid fugazi shootout, which is a skills competition to determine a winner. Did I really win the game or did I win the skills competition? I couldn't beat you for 65 minutes actually playing hockey, but I get to thump my chest at the end of the game because a skills competition, I won and I won the game, stupid. Get rid of it. I'd rather have a tie.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

So what would I hate to tie do?

[Dan Rosenberg]

All right, so let's say they gave you that. Let's say they played it the way they do. 15 minutes. Everybody's guaranteed a possession regardless of the result of the first possession, right? Touchdown, field goal, doesn't matter, and you've got a tie. What would you rather do? You want it? It's not fair to continue to play. I think that'd be silly. So would do you. Would you rather have a tie or would you rather go to some fugazi tiebreaker or do like a field goal competition?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I would reluctantly go away kicking and screaming after the 15 minutes. And if it's tie, it's a tie. But at least you gave me a full quarter of football, remember? Because it used to be a 15 minute overtime for all these years and then they cut it to 10, even though, like you said, because they don't want to cutting into the next television window. But they sat there and told you it was all because of player safety, which was a bunch of Garbage.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Bunch of garbage people are really fired up about. I am just. I'm a little taken aback by. I hate ties.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I don't like ties. I think they look ugly in the standings. Ugly.

[Dan Rosenberg]

But that's no reason.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Well, that's a reason. I'm giving you a reason.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Who looks at standings anymore anyway? Well, do you have, in 17 games who's in first? Second? You know what? I'll find an easier time to be able to determine who's in the right position because of the tie.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I think checking the standings and the record is the most important in football because you have the fewest amount of games in any of the sports.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Right. And if I have a tie, you know what? I didn't lose.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

You didn't win?

[Dan Rosenberg]

I didn't lose.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

You were just there.

[Dan Rosenberg]

No, but you make it seem like nothing happened. It doesn't happen all that often. I've never gone to an NFL game that I can remember that ended in tie. I don't think the jets ever had a tie in all the 16 years I was doing the pre and post that I could remember.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Last time they tied, I think was against. I was there against the Chiefs in 1988.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Right. So here.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

So it's so rare and I hate it.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I can't remember when it was. You got so much, so many ridiculous Jet games where nothing happened and there was a result. You were at the Packer Giant, the Jet game where the final score was 9 nothing. Where at the end of the game, Greg and I made ourselves the player of the game for having to watch it. How many times you sat in that stadium, Giant Stadium, at MetLife Stadium, in your own filth, watching it rain and snow and cold, watching nothing happened but there was a result. Or you could sit there and watch a well played game and it happens to end in a tie that you'll never forget because you hardly ever see it. And you hate that. Because I feel empty inside that I left the building and there's no result. Yeah.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

This is what, 37 years later and it still haunts me to this day.

[Dan Rosenberg]

It haunts you. Or is it something that's actually kind of cool that you said my draw the last time the jets played a tie was 1988 and you were there.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Man, I hate. And I hated it then.

[Dan Rosenberg]

You shouldn't. You should. You should celebrate it. You should have a plaque in the house. I was there.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Did you really give yourselves player of the game that, that after the Packer game?

[Dan Rosenberg]

No, we did. We were really brazen. We really felt really good about like how good we were at doing it. And the jets loved us that we felt, oh, great.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Well, the jets were good then that and that was Aaron Rodgers who beat them that day. But yeah, the year the packers and Aaron Rodgers won the super.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Who are you going to give it to? The other thing too is, you know, we had sponsored highlights. There were no highlights. No, I can't, I can't make the play of the game, a 36 yard field goal.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Unless you had like the donation go to the kids or something like that.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Then it's different, you know. But all right, this is, you never know where you're going to go.

[TurboTax Voiceover]

This is a message from sponsor Intuit. TurboTax Taxes was getting frustrated by your forms. Now Taxes is uploading your forms with a Snap and a TurboTax expert will do your taxes for you. One who's backed by the latest tech which cross checks millions of data points for absolute accuracy. All of which makes it easy for you to get the most money back guaranteed. Get an expert [e-mail] only available with TurboTax Live full service. Seek guaranteed [e-mail] guarantees.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Time now for the tournament update brought to you by Sun Cruiser and San Adams American light. First four concludes tonight in Dayton. Mount St. Mary's takes on American at 6:40 for the 16 SID in the east region. And that'll be followed by Xavier in Texas playing in the Midwest for the 11 seed. That was the tournament update brought to you by Sun Cruiser and Sam Adams American Light. Don and Dan here take up until 7:00, then our coverage of Knicks and Spurs from San Antonio. Looking forward to that. Let's get to the busy phones. Let's go to Dan in Quorum. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, buddy?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. How you doing?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Good.

[Caller]

So I wanted to fully agree with Dan here. You know, we're both named Dan and we both agree on this. I'm also a big anti Thai guy and Don, I want to respectfully disagree with something that you said. You know, you said if you feel like if you don't have a dog in the fight, then you're rooting for a tie. I would feel like if I invested in like my time in a game where I didn't have too much invested in it, I would want finale I would want to know what the end result was. I feel like that's the whole point of sports, to have a winner and a loser. I just wanted to hear you guys thoughts on that.

[Dan Rosenberg]

But the end result was a tie. Like I guess our fundamental disagreement, guys, is that you believe there was no result. I'm saying there was a result, it was a tie. And that affects you in the standings. It could affect you negatively or it could affect you positively depending on how things break down. Like I said, Giants finished 9, 7 and 1. They were the last New York team to have a tie. And if they were even with the Eagles or the commanders and the commanders were 10 and 7, you know what, that tie burned them, hurt them, or if it ends up the commanders were nine and eight, you know what, the tie ended up being a benefit. It worked out. So it did have a result. And it could hurt you or hinder you, depending on how it goes. That's what makes it very interesting because you won't know at the time. You walk away from the tie feeling empty. I didn't have a result. But that result still could help you or haunt you, depending on what happens the rest of the way. So there is a result. And if I don't have a dog in a fight, why not root for something you hardly ever see? Like how often do you have it? Was it every couple of years, Dan, that there's a tie in the NFL, Right. It's infrequent, you know, so like in hockey, when there was a tie, I mean, there could be. There could be 10 games and four that come and end in ties in a given night. It's not big deals, it's not special. But as a Giant fan, I could tell you the times they've tied the commanders in 22. And before that it was also against the redskins back in 97. Yeah, like, so I can rattle them off because that's how rare they are. So why not? Now, obviously you want to see your team win rather than tie, but Dan, that game against the Chiefs in Ada, when you walked out of the building, weren't you. Would you have been happier had they lost the game? You would have gotten a result. But weren't you. Don't you think you feel better tying than losing?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

No, because I don't like the way it looked.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh, my dear.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

See, no, because think about it throughout time. Okay. We've used to play 16 games.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Teams identities were tied to their records, were they not? And you could sit there and spit out and sometimes even memorize okay, you know, 10 and 6, 11 and 5, 12 and 4, 8 and 8, 9 and 7. Not if there's a tie in there. That just throws a complete wrench into it. Don't roll off the tongue as easily.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh my. But again, I can remember because of how special it is in 22 because the Giants had a tie. They were 9, 7 and 1 in 97 when they had a tie. They finished 10, 5 and 1 and then the other. And then in the other tie that they had in Bill Parcell's first year in 83, the tie against the St. Louis Cardinals when Neil O'Donohue missed a chip shot field goal at the end. I remember that to this day. I actually went out and bought the game on VHS because I wanted to relive it because it brought back some childhood memories. They went three 12 and one that year. The game was a Monday Night Football ended in a tie. And I remember that. I remember those things. Those are the three that I remember. They had lost or won. Maybe I wouldn't have remembered it as much.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Was he a straight on kicker oat Neil O'Donnell?

[Dan Rosenberg]

No, I don't think so, no. And I remember jumping up and I. It's so funny because I guess my dad would have agreed with you, but I think it was more because my dad was disgusted with how poor the Giants were. And I was a kid, so it was 1983. I was 15 years old, so I wasn't a kid, but I was still immature young sports fan at 15. And I was just happy my team didn't lose. Like I didn't get caught up in where they were going to draft and you know, the season being a complete wreck. So when O'Donoghue missed the field goal and the Giants secured the tie, I remember like pumping my fist, jumping on my down, my tag goes. Will you sit down? It's ridiculous. What's the matter with you? This team stinks. Why are you celebrating? Get excited about the tide, the St. Louis Cardinal because they didn't lose. I wasn't jaded yet, so you don't see how special. So you would rather Neil O'Donoghue kick the field goal and the Giants lose because there would be resolution that there was a winner and a loser. No, I took the tie because it's better than a loss.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I'll tell you, there's a lot of people, you know, it's America and you're free to decide and all these other things and stuff like that. But yeah, the overwhelming majority of the things I'm seeing is that like most people would. Would hate the ties and they would rather lose than.

[Dan Rosenberg]

No, but see, you could hate the tie. This is what I would rather lose. The loss is definitely going to hurt you. No question. A loss never helps you, but a tie could help you. So what if that, what if that loss Dan kept your team out of the playoffs where the tie would have got him in?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Well, on a rare occasion that happens. But also if you root for a team, let's say, for example, it isn't very good. What's the difference between being 5 and 11 versus, you know, 4, 11 and 1?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Because I watched a game on Monday Night football as a 15 year old. The Giants didn't play a lot on Monday night back in the day and my team didn't lose. To me, a tie is better than a loss. Not as good as a win. How can you not see that? So hate ties all you want, but the one thing that blows my mind, I'd rather lose.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I can understand the formative difference. You understand that like I can acknowledge the fact that a tie is better than a loss. Doesn't mean I have to like the way that it looks cosmetically. That's all I'm saying.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, you're the one that said I'd rather lose than tie. You said that.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah. Cause like I said, cosmetically at least, it lines up in the standings nice and tidy.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Cosmetically, it's. Listen to John.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Seriously, who cares if you're watching, if you're watching a train wreck, what's the difference?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, I agree with the 83 analogy, but I was 15, I didn't know any better. All right, but, but the, the 10, 5 and 1 in 97, they won the division. Would it, does it matter to me whether they ended up 11 and 5 or 10 or 10 and 6? What's the difference? 10, 5 and 1 still stunk the way the season ended, losing to the Vikings the way they did.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

When I was driving home yesterday, I passed on the other side of the highway, there was like an 18 wheeler, like in, engulfed in flames. No, no joke. And there was like three fire trucks there. And I guess like that thing was burnt to a crisp. There was like barely any evidence that a cabin even existed on the truck. So what's the difference? If there was one tire remaining or no tires remaining, the thing is still gone.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Nah, that's dark. Let's go to Rob.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I use the train wreck analogy. That's almost the same thing, is it not?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Like, well, you know, what's He. Let's settle down. We gotta. We got a Robbie and a Robert. Let's go to Robert in the car. You're on espn, you're Robbie. Hang in there. We'll get you in a second. Go ahead, Robert.

[Caller]

Hey guys, you hear me?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh, easily.

[Caller]

Hey guys. Love the show. You guys are both great. Listen, to put it a little more simply, someone invests themselves in a game or goes to a game to see who will win. So if it's a tie, then you didn't see what you want.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Why do. Why do you say that? I go to a game to find out what's going to happen and what happened was a tie. I don't necessarily go to a game to see, you know, this team can win, this team can lose. I'm going to. Let's see the result. And what I saw was it ended in a tie. Why can't we wrap our mind around the fact that a tie is a result?

[Caller]

I think it's a result. But I think you're watching the game to see who's going to win. And it's not a result that you wanted.

[Dan Rosenberg]

It is. Team didn't win, but they didn't lose. And it means something because in hockey you got a point. So it was something in the standings and the tie could actually help or hinder you. You're gonna have to wait later on to find out. But wouldn't you rather tie than lose?

[Caller]

I would rather tie than lose. It might help. But it's still a stupid rule that there is such a thing as a tie. It could help you. Still not a good rule.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

But look, the only reason we're bringing this up is because this rule proposal to increase overtime by another five minutes. We hope that another five minutes of football means that you're going to have a winner or a loser.

[Dan Rosenberg]

That's so what I would want to ask Robbie, but Robert. But he's gone. But I'll ask you. You a poor ties cosmetically. They discussed you everything. So would you want to see so there's never a tie again that after the 15 minutes are over we have a field goal kicking contest to determine a winner?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

No.

[Dan Rosenberg]

So you'd rather have a tie then?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

No, because I think that's just plain else.

[Dan Rosenberg]

But. But what? But. But you. But you do understand even though the NFL claims they care about player safety, but we know they don't. Would you want to play another quarter of overtime like does? No. Not sense.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Not if it makes not a players.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Play a fifth quarter. No. That'd be silly. So now they'd have to come up with something fugazi, like putting the ball at the 25 yard line, doing something like that. Would you want to see a college football kind of overtime then to avoid ties?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I don't mind the college format. I've always been okay with it. To be quite honest, I don't like it.

[Dan Rosenberg]

That's not the game. So I. The thing that bothered me about the tie now, they got better with the having to do the two point conversion and all that. But like, you play for 60 minutes, the game's tied at seven. It's a defensive battle and now you end up going to the college overtime and the final score is 51 50. It doesn't even come close to representing what happened for 60 minutes of the game, but because the balls of the 25 yard line and they're exchanging touchdowns now the final score is something ridiculous. Does that make sense? Tell me about the game you saw. Must have been a wild one. 5150. My God, that must have been wide open. No, the game was tied at seven going overtime. Nobody can get a first down to save their lives. But once we got to overtime, they put the ball at the 25, everybody started scoring.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

All right, let me ask you this question. Okay, so because this is majority of our lifetimes as football fans, okay, when the NFL had the 15 minute overtime period, sudden death, even for the regular season. Okay, that's 30 20s, 37 years of football. Okay, how many ties do you think there were off the top of your head? 400 and.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh, geez.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah, so 37 years of football.

[Dan Rosenberg]

37 years of football with the sudden death overtime.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Do you want me to tell you how many of those games went to overtime?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Went to overtime?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yes.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh, God. Hundreds.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Okay, 494 went to overtime. Okay, how many of them ended in.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Ties just off the top? I could. 25.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Even less. 10, 17, which is 3.4%. That's what I'm saying. It's so odd. It, that's why it stuck out like a sore thumb to me. That's the only reason I'm saying this. Not because it was what it means standings wise. It just stuck out like a sore thumb. It was awful to see.

[Dan Rosenberg]

But the thing is, because it almost never. Listen, it had to be almost a problem. It's hard to say that it was a quality game if it ended in a tie considering, you know, that it was sudden death. All you had to do was kick a field goal, you know, and that's why it kind of was unfair because I lose the toss. These guys can kick 60 yard field goals now that I really fail allowing two first downs and then I lose the game. So I do think it was fair to have each team have a possession. I think giving up a touchdown you shouldn't get a possession. But whatever, the Kansas City Buffalo thing changed that. I mean, I do think you failed as a defense if you give up a touchdown. I find it difficult to believe you failed as a defense when a guy kicks a 62 yard field goal.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

You know, can I be honest with you? And I'm just remembering this now because that one game I referenced in 88 that I was at, I was a kid. I don't, you know, don't remember the details of it. Do you know that Freeman McNeil lost a fumble at the Kansas City 15 yard line in the final minute of overtime? So at the very least you're in field goal range. So if like think about if I had that memory for all these years later, that probably would have annoyed me even more in the fact that it ended in a tie.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah, pretty crazy stuff. More of your calls. 1-800-919-3776 It's Don. It's Dan. It's Don Hahn and Rosenberg on 880, ESPN New York.

[FanDuel Voiceover]

FanDuel is turning the excitement up even higher for college basketball. Through the first two rounds of the tournament, bet on the lowest winning seed of the day and you'll win a share of $1 million in bonus bets. Now that's an upset you will not be upset about. All right now, I'm going against Duke. Until they lose, it doesn't matter who they're playing. You know how I do. FanDuel is the best place to bet on the tourney. You can bet on everything from spreads to moneylines and team totals, plus so much more. Just visit FanDuel.com Peter to download America's number one sportsbook today and back your dog of the day. Because of March, anything can happen. 21 and over and physically present New York Opt in required winning pre live Moneyline wager on lowest seed required each $1 million jackpot to be split equally among all eligible winners. Bonus bets are non withdrawable and expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] for help with the gambling problem. Call 877-8-HOPE NY or text OPENY at 467-369.

[Don Hahn]

Go further with the American Express Business Gold Card. Earn three times Membership Rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels when you book through amextravel.com whether your destination is a business conference or a client meeting. Your purchases will help you earn more points for future trips. Experience more on your travels with AMEX Business Gold Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] Business Gold AmEx Business Gold Card Billed for Business by American Express thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Game Time is brought to you by Tully Mordew Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, it's Tully time. The Knicks are in San Antonio to face off against the spurs with coverage beginning at 7:30 right here on 880 ESPN New York. And the coverage will begin with Dan Grasse Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during tonight's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. Are you ready for more phone calls there, sir?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I've never been more prepared, ever.

[Dan Rosenberg]

All right, let's see. Let's go to Neil in New Jersey. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Neil?

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Good.

[Caller]

So I was, I was just wondering if you're worried about. Okay. Ties is cool. Ties is okay. Why would. Are you opposed to tying the Super Bowl?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, that's just stupid, Neil. Come on. Yeah, that's a champion. It's ridiculous.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Playoff game before. Come on.

[Dan Rosenberg]

No, because you got. But because you need to have a result of a win or a loss to decide who moves on and who the champion is in the regular season is different. But no, of course I'm not going to root for a Super Bowl. What are they going to share the trophy? Come on, Neil, come back to me.

[Caller]

But then you could be like, oh, I was there for that.

[Dan Rosenberg]

All right. You know, obviously you're trying to get me going.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

See, that's a call where, like, you question the decision to even wake up in the morning.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah. You know, we're trying to have a conversation about ties in the regular. There are no ties in the postseason. Like I'm watching. Like I said, I want to see my team win. And it's special when something happens that rare. But when you're trying to decide a champion or you're moving on in the playoffs, they obviously put things in place where the game is going to continue that doesn't happen in the regular season. In the regular season the game has to end because there's a game, you know, in, in the NFL next week or in hockey, it could be the next day. So you can't exhaust these players, you can't do damage to their bodies. That's why baseball had the. I don't like it. But having the Manford man, because you get these games going 18, 19 innings and there's a day game the next day and there's just not enough pitchers to pitch in these games. But when you get to the World Series, you get rid of the man for man and you. Because you have to have a decision at the end of the game so you know who won the championship or who's going to move on. Come on, Neil. I thought you got me, but you didn't. You got me aggravated. Do you succeeded doing that?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

They use the soccer aggregate where you play the two games and it's like the aggregate score, you know, one of them can end in a tie. But you know, the team that moves on that has the total, you know, the higher total of goals or whatever.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Let's go to John in Bethlehem. You're on ESPN New York. Hi, John.

[Caller]

Hey guys, how we doing?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Good.

[Caller]

That's really the call. I gotta follow up. My God.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, you should have no problem. You could, you could hum. And you would do a hundred times better.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Spell your name John. And you'll get a circle and gets.

[Dan Rosenberg]

A square or whatever for the next three minutes. Go. Yeah, you would do better than the Neil call.

[Caller]

My God. But yeah, I'm not gonna scream, but I just, I'm with down on this one. It's just I'm, I've never like, obviously they're saying like, oh, when. If you can, you know, lose a few months. There's never like a thing where it's like, oh, it's, it's okay if you tie. But I just wanted to ask you guys, like, what is your ideal, what's it called? I'm drawing a blanket. What's your ideal overtime rules for the NFL? If there is. If you don't want ties, well, then.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Sudden death would be the way to go, right? That would lead to ending the game faster, but then you'd have people screaming bloody murder for the team that lost that. How come we didn't get a chance to possess the ball? And it's not fair. And, and that's how we've gotten to this point, John. Because it used to be sudden death.

[Dan Rosenberg]

For almost 40 years and I didn't think that was fair either because like I said, I don't want a 62 yard field goal saying my defense failed and the game is over again. I don't have a problem. Play your 15 minutes and if you don't have a winner, then you just go with a tie. I'd rather that than, than some fugazi field goal kicking competition or how far my quarterback can throw a football or, or doing something silly like tallying up all the yards and making the winner determine that way. But let me give you, let me give you this scenario where, where you could feel that I would feel good about a tie. All right, Your football team's down three touchdowns in the fourth quarter and people are starting to leave the building. There's 10 minutes left and you're down three touchdowns. You haven't been able to move the ball all, all day, but all of a sudden everything starts to come together and you score three touchdowns, including a game winning touchdown, a 50 yard Hail Mary at the buzzer, and then you play your 15 minutes and the game ends in a tie. Could you walk out of the building feeling good? Hey, I was in the fourth quarter, I was down 21 to nothing. I thought we were going to get blown out, but I walked out with a tie. Sure, I would have loved to win the game, but I was down 21 nothing. That, that wouldn't be a tie. You would, you were proud of. That wouldn't be a tie. You feel good about.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I would have rather just got blown out and lost by four.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh my God, that makes no sense.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

I'm just that.

[Dan Rosenberg]

So then you fast forward to the end of the year and your team's eliminated from playoff competition because they lost the game. Where if they had tied the game, they'd have the tiebreaker and be in the playoffs. But you'd be happy because cosmetically there'd be a, there wouldn't be a third category or there'd be a zero by the ties. But hey, at least it looks good even though we didn't make the playoffs. But oh my God, that ugly one in the third row that put me in the playoffs, I couldn't tolerate.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah, it should have played better for the first three quarters.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh dear God, you know what, I've.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Been on the other end where, you know, a team played awful for three quarters like the Monday Night Miracle game, 30 to 7, come back and win the game and you still don't even make the playoffs at the end of the year. So I've seen both ends up.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah. I think, if I remember correctly, I think you like lost the next three games in a row.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Yeah, they were six and one and then they went on like a little bit of a skid. Yeah.

[Dan Rosenberg]

You never know.

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

And Miami made the playoffs that year.

[Dan Rosenberg]

There you go. So what did it matter?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

Which is also I think the last time. That was the last year the Dolphins won a playoff game. How about that?

[Dan Rosenberg]

All right. But let's say you, let's say you tied the game but you go to the playoffs and the Dolphins didn't. At the end of the day, would it have been better? Wouldn't be any miracle. But you know, your team would have made the playoffs. What was that? 2000?

[Unnamed Sports Analyst]

2000? Yeah.

[Dan Rosenberg]

1-800-919-377. We're having fun. We're having a lot of fun. A lot of people want to climb a board on this one. You never know what's going to stick. Do a little baseball too as well. Take up until 7:00 and then it's Dan with the pregame for. Well, actually he'll do a show until 7:30 and then at 7:30 he'll have the pregame for the Knicks and the spurs right here on 880 ESPN. You want to get the most for your money. That's why more Mazda buyers choose Ramsey Mazda. Lease a new 2025 Mazda CX30 all wheel drive, only 179amonth or buy and get 0.9% APR financing for 36 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda.com choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. Excludes tax, title and registration. Zero security deposit Vin SM 8008128 MSRP 27,105 ends 331 25.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Toyota Voiceover]

In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here, and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.