Chris Carlin (2:20)

He's unbelievable. He's great on Twitter, breaking down the playoffs.

Don Hahn (2:23)

Fantastic.

Chris Carlin (2:24)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (2:24)

His quote that he wrote after watching the Giant commander's game back from the Giant perspective was this. It was just terrible football. End quote. That's a damning statement for a week one game that you've been. You had two weeks to prepare for. You knew who you're starting quarterback. You know, like you were ready for all. You had everything you needed for that game. This is not like week eight. You had injuries. You had to piecemeal. It's not a short week because you played on a Thursday. But no, this is week one and one of the most unbiased and obviously he's terrific when it comes to analyzing a game. He called it just terrible football. That's a damning statement for a head coach.

Chris Carlin (3:13)

It's a real. Listen, I can't avoid the fact that I think this is all coaching. I've been saying it. I hope I'm wrong, but I think I'm right, that it's really come down to the fact that they're just poorly coached and have been poorly coached now for a decade.

Don Hahn (3:28)

Just have him, but different people.

Chris Carlin (3:30)

Different people. And then that's an indictment on John Marin and his inner people that have allowed him to pick McAdoo. Although McAdoo made sense because he was the offensive coordinator in a big year for Eli Manning in his first season. And then, you know, Shermer trying to fix Eli Judge because he was a disciple of Bill Belichick. He finally goes outside the organization to bring in somebody you figure, okay, Buffalo Bills, good team, good offense, but it's just not working, not functioning. When you don't function, whatever the sport is, it's because you are coached poorly, you prepare poorly. So let me ask you guys this because there's some dable sound I want to be able to play for you while we got him. If it looks bad against Dallas now, Dallas, good team but not a great defense. No, if it looks bad and they don't score a touchdown, they lose 24 to 3 or God forbid, get blown out like they did opening day a couple of years ago. 40 another is the competitive portion of the season in your eyes over.

Peter Rosenberg (4:31)

As.

Chris Carlin (4:32)

Ridiculous that is after week two, competing for something, they are pretty much done.

Don Hahn (4:36)

Yeah.

Chris Carlin (4:37)

All you're looking forward to is when Jackson Dar plays.

Don Hahn (4:39)

Keep in mind, all right, fans are always going to be optimistic and believe in all that stuff, but let's keep in mind they were considered one of the four worst teams going into the season. Most people looked at the Giants as this is a team that's far, far away. Right. And that's again, it's unbiased. It's not a giant hate thing. It's just a reality. That's where they were, so to say the competitive. They weren't supposed to be competitive. There was no real expectation of them being competitive. So Don, I think this has always been a transition year and trying to get to the young quarterback when it was the right time. And the schedule to me was the perfect storm. The schedule is what's killing them because of who they have to play.

Chris Carlin (5:24)

You're right.

Don Hahn (5:25)

It's almost unfair for a team that was as bad as they were last year to have a schedule this hard.

Chris Carlin (5:29)

You know what? But. And we'll get an update on Thomas and neighbors and all that in a second. But don't get me wrong, I don't think anybody would be surprised. You're owing to you're playing on the road against the Commanders and the Cowboys.

Don Hahn (5:41)

Yeah, of course.

Chris Carlin (5:41)

And then, oh, by the way, you might have an 02 Chief team coming to town in primetime with the Giants never win. And now the Chargers look like one of the best teams in football coming to town in week four. But I don't think when I say competitive, I don't mean competitive for a playoff spot. I mean just competitive in games like functioning, scoring touchdowns. Like if they lost to the commanders 24, 21 and the commander's just a better team, won a last second field goal. Looks a lot different than what we saw with a team that can't score in the red zone, can't move the football at all. And if it looks the same against Dallas, like, all right, I'm not talking about record. Yeah. I don't think anybody thought the record is going to be good because the teams are so good. But is it? I guess we'll find out against Dallas, but all right, I'm willing to say they lost to a better team. The Commanders are really good. They're going to make a lot of teams look foolish. I'm not gonna put Dallas in that category. So if they look foolish again, it's like, dude, forget competitive. How about being competitive in games showing that you have the ability to play the sport? Now a lot of people that want to be optimistic says, hey, we didn't have Andrew Thomas, which is not nothing. He's your left tackle.

Don Hahn (6:44)

Yep.

Chris Carlin (6:44)

Dable today gave an update on Thomas coming into the game against Dallas. Andrew Thomas will not Practice today. That is part of the plan. Making progress, hoping to get him out here the next two days and see where he. Where he's at at the end of the week. All right, so not a big deal. He didn't practice. That was the plan. But if he doesn't practice tomorrow, well, then I'm going to start to think he's probably going to be listed on Friday as doubtful and then miss a second game. Now an update on neighbors and Malik will be limited. With his back, I should be okay.

Peter Rosenberg (7:15)

All right.

Chris Carlin (7:15)

All right. So your best weapons got a bad back and he should be okay. Well, at least we're getting answers. It's not. We don't talk about injury now.

Peter Rosenberg (7:23)

Look, by the way, if you go backwards when you talk about the putrid offense of this team, go backwards into last season, they had a. They had a 45 spot against the Colts. You remember that?

Don Hahn (7:34)

Yeah.

Chris Carlin (7:34)

And the comment was, well, this is what happens when you get good quarterback play. Which is to tell you, well, we don't have a good quarterback in Daniel Jones. Well, how'd that look in Indy?

Peter Rosenberg (7:42)

It didn't look great. But ironically, Indy. Right. Indiana Jones, if you will. But their total output over the. Let's go. Just from the bye week on last year, 7, 20, 11, 14. 7. They have the 45 and 13. Basically every week they're scoring 10 points. That's basically what they're doing.

Chris Carlin (8:02)

So doesn't that tell you.

Peter Rosenberg (8:03)

It continues this.

Chris Carlin (8:04)

And I think they had a kick return or a punt return for a touchdown. Trying to remember. So not all 45 of those points came offensively. But still, that's a lot. It's good. 38 of them did. But isn't that kind of a perfect example of sometimes, yeah, a blind squirrel finds a nut. Like you just gave an example one time, he scored four. All right, One time, anything. And I. One day, everything kind of comes together. That's probably more an indictment on the Colts than it was the Jets.

Peter Rosenberg (8:29)

Well, how about this? I mean, the Giants, they never, they never hit 30 the rest of the season. They had that 145. They never hit 30 the rest of the year. They had 129.

Chris Carlin (8:37)

Well, that was a big deal.

Don Hahn (8:38)

Which tells you that's more about the Colts than it was about the Giants.

Chris Carlin (8:41)

And that was bad because the Colts needed that game. But you know, the quarterback that lit him up wasn't even. Isn't even here anymore. So what does it matter? All right. We were Talking with Booger McFarlane about why dart is backing Up. And here's Brian Dabel. He had a good camp. He had a good preseason. Again, for young quarterbacks, you're going to see a variety of things when you first start playing that you need to learn from. But again, everything. Every kind of checkpoint we've had for him in his process, albeit only a couple months with us, he's done a good job with. So we'll continue to work with him, do the things we need to do. I mean, he's a tireless worker, I'd say, in the classroom and then outside, too. You know, he's going through tons of plays, both mentally and then physically throughout practice and after practice, he'll be our number two quarterback. So it's interesting because Booger said what Allen's been saying is the reason he's the backup quarterback is he gets reps with the number ones during prep week. And he'll be dressed and he's got. He's on the headphones. He's in dialogue with. With Wilson and the offensive coordinator, Kafka. But that sounded more like, hey, he's the number two because he deserves to be.

Don Hahn (9:47)

Yeah, yeah. Because he earned it, because he showed them enough to believe in him. But I. I feel like. And I've been saying this all along, so I'm. I'm trying to be as consistent as I can with this message, because I've been saying it, and I think it's starting to start to come to fruition. They had a plan that they put in place for him. They didn't want to rush him, but they also didn't want to push him aside and tell him, just be the third guy, pay attention, keep your mouth shut. They want him to be involved, but he had to show them that there was enough going on up in his head that he could handle the processing and all the things that physically, the tools are there. You saw that you didn't need to. You just needed to see that on the field. But then you had to see how fast can he process, how smart is he? Can he read? Does he understand our concepts and what. All the things that you test in a classroom, basically all the time when you. When you do film and all that stuff started to show to them, okay, there's a lot there, and they believe in it. So that's why when you ask, well, he's one hit away from being your starting quarterback. That's right. Because they think that if they had to, they could, but they don't have to. So they're not. At least not yet.

Chris Carlin (11:02)

Well, let Me ask you this because there was a lot. And it started here. Allen brought it up and then there were reports of it leading into the game on Sunday, that there would be packages for Dart. Yeah, but he might not start. But maybe the reason he's the backup quarterback is they'll. They'll find ways to.

Don Hahn (11:18)

They had plays for him and then they didn't go to him and that. And when they were on the two yard line, I thought for sure they bring him in.

Chris Carlin (11:25)

So why not that? Like we're talking about him coming into a game. If Wilson gets hurt or, you know, a groundswell to people believing he should start the game, why can't we just start it out as. All right. Wilson had the first drive against Dallas. Three and out. Let's start being a little creative and finding ways to where we can incorporate him in just to kind of change it up. Not that we're saying he's going to be the starter, because if you remember that Jet preseason game, the thing that I valued more than anything else he did in the preseason, when they threw him in on that one play, like it was almost to say, what can you do if you got to go.

Don Hahn (11:55)

In and took him down the field and then he went in and I.

Chris Carlin (11:57)

Thought that was nice and I would like to see it incorporated in that way. If you're looking to just kind of surprise the opponent and then you can take them back out again. The. If you're. If you remember, if you're old enough to remember that's how the Eagles worked in Randall Cunningham when Jaworski was the quarterback. Is they'd have certain third down and fourth down plays for Cunningham. So he's there, but he's. And he might help, but nobody's asking him to do too much.

Don Hahn (12:21)

I think you're going to see it in Dallas.

Chris Carlin (12:23)

I think you're going to have to.

Don Hahn (12:24)

No, no. I think. I think you're going to see there'll be some plays and some. Some situations that they'll bring him in. But you also don't know how delicate the Russ situation is because we're all just assuming like he's there, but he knows he's just a placeholder. He don't know that they never think, they never do. And while the rest of us say that this guy's cooked, he's done and all that stuff, he's not saying that. He's not talking that way. So everybody else could see it, but he's never going to see it. So what happens if you are pulling him off the field. What happens to Russ? Do you lose him?

Chris Carlin (13:02)

Well, at this stage, if you were to lose him, I mean, how bad a look would that be for Wilson?

Don Hahn (13:07)

He's not paying attention to that, though. He's saying, well, you brought me in to be the starter.

Chris Carlin (13:10)

All right, but that. But you've. You're already coming off your reputation being sullied in Denver for the way you handle that situation. And then you're awful as a. Your stats are awful in a couple of games to start the season.

Don Hahn (13:21)

And you're going to see your Powell on social media. Don, he doesn't have any awareness like that.

Chris Carlin (13:26)

Well, then. But then I can't about him. That's what I got Winston for. Right. If that were to be the case and Winston looks like he's totally on board and totally, you know, his future as a starting quarterback is probably over. This is his life now as a mentor, as a backup. All right, well, if Wilson's going to pout, cut him. Well, and then you got as easy as that. Well, it's keeping a guy. If he's going to pout and be a problem, then I don't care what. What kind of effect on the salary cap that's going to have. I'm not going to have this kid ruin this guy. Ruined Dart by being a baby if he doesn't like the way it's handled.

Don Hahn (14:00)

It's really interesting because you remember how Jalen Hurts became the starter in Philadelphia. Carson Wentz was the guy, but he wasn't doing as well. But he was also a different Duck. He wasn't a true huddle leader. He wasn't inspiring.

Chris Carlin (14:18)

Well, we found that out in Indianapolis that he wasn't the greatest of the teammates.

Peter Rosenberg (14:21)

He also looked markedly worse.

Chris Carlin (14:23)

But yes, but no.

Don Hahn (14:23)

He came back from that injury. Right. Maybe it was MVP going for the MVP that year. Then he got hurt.

Peter Rosenberg (14:27)

The one year was.

Don Hahn (14:28)

But yeah, he was great.

Peter Rosenberg (14:29)

2017.

Don Hahn (14:29)

But then when he came back from the injury, he was. It just. It wasn't hit in the same way. And now the warts were shown. But they. They had Hertz and Hertz would come in once in a while and that's when like the offensive line and some of the vets were like, yeah, it looks different when that dude's out there. And the whispers started to happen and it got to a point where they had to make the move to Hertz because everybody just felt like, this guy gets it. He commands the huddle and all that. And that's sort of what's got to happen here. In my opinion. I think that's just how it has to go. The players will tell you when it's time to make the change.

Chris Carlin (15:07)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (15:07)

The guys will say this ain't work.

Chris Carlin (15:10)

And that is true.

Don Hahn (15:11)

And no one said it yet.

Chris Carlin (15:13)

Veteran on the team. It looks like they got Wilson because it is only one game.

Peter Rosenberg (15:17)

That's literally one guy.

Don Hahn (15:18)

That's why I'm saying you got to let this play out.

Chris Carlin (15:20)

That's why I started the segment asking the question, Peter, what if it looks the same against Alice that doesn't have as great a defense like now. It's. It's trending to where this is kind of what.

Peter Rosenberg (15:29)

And Russ looks the same thing. Like every moment he turns to run, he's never looking downfield, going through his progressions. He's just looking at the line and.

Don Hahn (15:35)

He don't want to get hit. That's the. When a quarterback doesn't want to get hit, that quarterback's no longer a quarterback.

Chris Carlin (15:41)

And he will lose the rest of the team because those guys are getting hit. So you know what I noticed about.

Don Hahn (15:45)

Aaron Rodgers real quick?

Peter Rosenberg (15:47)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (15:47)

Aaron Rodgers didn't look like he had an injury before. You know, does that make sense?

Peter Rosenberg (15:54)

What do you mean?

Don Hahn (15:55)

Now he did what he looked like in week one was a guy who was over the injury. Like a lot of guys turn 40, play quarterback, they've been through an injury, they don't want to get hit. Nobody wants to get hit. But you know, when you don't want to get hit, you'll do whatever it takes to not get hit. Aaron Rodgers took hits.

Chris Carlin (16:09)

Oh, well, there was one hit on the, on the, on the drive before the game winning field goal where they went three and out.

Don Hahn (16:14)

Yeah.

Chris Carlin (16:14)

Where he almost got folded now, like, well, one jet hit him high, the other one hit him low. And, and he looked like I was. Is he going to be able to get up? And he was still able.

Don Hahn (16:22)

And he walked off the field and he did not have any like, you didn't see any yips, any nothing. And that tells you he's still very much a quarterback. He's not half retired. He's all in. I don't know. I don't know. Russ has not showed me that.

Peter Rosenberg (16:33)

Yeah, there were a couple of you I saw. There were a couple of pockets that I saw and I'm no, I'm no all 22 every Sunday expert. But I saw a few things move around on Twitter where he took off and ran and he had a pocket. He just didn't go through his Progressions. He didn't see it. Like, he takes off so quickly. If you or me were playing quarterback, I'd be like, oh, my God, there are people running at him.

Don Hahn (16:53)

Well, he did that in Denver and.

Chris Carlin (16:55)

Then he took so quickly. And there's a difference of, hey, I'm 36. I got to preserve my body. And then there's, I'm not getting hit for this team, you know, and that when the latter happens, that's when you lose your teammates. Like, hey, I'm working my ass off for you. You're not going to do the same for me.

Don Hahn (17:10)

The offensive line keeps getting the blame. Eventually somebody's going to say, well, you know, it'd be nice. Quarterback' stayed in the pocket for an exercise like. Like we're getting.

Peter Rosenberg (17:17)

Yeah, you might get touched, but you have a clean enough pocket to. To go through your reads.

Don Hahn (17:21)

Like you're, you're taking off now. We don't know where you're going. We don't know which way to block. You're going to see that's when it starts to turn. And it won't be in week one. It might not even be week two, but you'll start.

Peter Rosenberg (17:30)

I would think those three. I was going to say it depends how two looks. If two is an utter nightmare, where he's just awful, maybe add a few picks into the mix also, he didn't do that last week. But if two is similar to one, they'll do it again, and then we'll see what happens after three.

Don Hahn (17:47)

You got. You got to wait for the whispers to begin. And that's where the. That's where the right.

Peter Rosenberg (17:50)

The truth is, I'm going to say it again. It was one game without their left tackle and the best offensive lineman on.

Don Hahn (17:57)

The team, and it was 14, 6. Like, you were right. You were in the game.

Peter Rosenberg (18:00)

Right? Right. It's not like you were in the game.

Chris Carlin (18:02)

Right.

Don Hahn (18:02)

But that's.

Peter Rosenberg (18:04)

But that's a tribute to your defense. The fact is, the defense held Daniels in check in the second half for the most part.

Chris Carlin (18:09)

Let's go to Dave in the car. You're on espn, New York. What's up, Dave?

Caller Dave (18:13)

What's up, guys? I'm glad you got me in because this is why I was calling, and I want to get your opinion on it. It's a very tough question, but, you know, when I see the Chargers, when I see the Broncos, and even in Week one, Game one, I can see the coaching staff having an impact, a direct disciplinary impact on an organization. Even though the jets lost, you Saw something there. If I'm now owner of the Gian and as a I'm looking at this from the fan perspective, you can honestly sit Gable down right now and say, what have you done since you beat the Minnesota Vikings? Absolutely nothing.

Chris Carlin (18:52)

Nothing.

Caller Dave (18:53)

He has lost this team completely. Players will play for you. This injury that Thomas has, the back injury that Navis has, guess what? If they knew they were playing for the playoffs or playing with some pride. Shoot me up, Doc. Take me up, get me in the game. Believe me, there's a lot of players playing right now because they got something to play for. They can easily call up their agent or go to the DOC and say, I think I need to go to rehab and put me on the PUP list. Why can't anyone see that he's lost this team?

Chris Carlin (19:25)

It feels like just does. Dave, you're right. It's the same thing over and over again. And I don't want to hold, bring up the whole tanking thing. Like Peter brought up the game against Indianapolis and I could see a lot of, oh, they had to win that game. Would it matter if they lost that game? They drafted Cam Ward. If you don't have the coach, does it matter? When does a great quarterback that young overcome bad coaching? That's why I say you play it out. Because I want to find out if I got a coach because that's important. Because you can draft all the quarterbacks in the world. If you don't have the right coach in place, it's not going to matter. A veteran can come in in a dumpster fire and figure it out. But you expect a kid fresh out of college, drafted first overall is going to overcome bad coaching, overcome bad play calling. No. So the idea of all that, they had Daniel Jones, now Daniel Jones looks like he could play again. It's only one game. But he said to you after that Indianapolis game, I'll see what happens when you get good quarterback play. Insinuating I'll never go quarterback. Yeah. Well, they've had several different quarterbacks now and it seems to be the same thing. So. And you want to rush dart in to play in this.

Don Hahn (20:30)

You can't. You can't.

Chris Carlin (20:32)

Oh, it's.

Don Hahn (20:32)

This will play itself out. And that's why when you asked, you know, the non competitive season and all that, there's going to come a time in this season that you're going to have weeks to look forward to to see if the quarterback can be developed and see if you have something at that position. That's what this season's going to be about for the majority of the field. Do we have a quarterback? Right, you're going to get there. You just. It's not going to happen soon.

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Chris Carlin (22:46)

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Don Hahn (23:17)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

Peter Rosenberg (23:21)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Don Hahn (23:22)

Catch the show on Demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Chris Carlin (23:30)

Get ready for a new Monday Night Football experience with the ESPN New York Couchcast. When the jets take on the Dolphins for the Week 4 divisional matchup. Settle in on the couch and join the Altcast with all of your favorite ESPN New York personalities for instant reactions, unfiltered commentary, and behind the mic banter, stream live on our YouTube page from kickoff to the final whistle, grab your snacks and watch the game with the pros. It's the ESPN New York Couchcast, presented by Calandra's Bakery and driven by All American Ford Auto Group, the number one Ford auto group in the Tri State area. Shop all american ford group.com now, this is gonna be Monday, September 29th, starting at 7pm on the ESPN New York YouTube channel. Now, the reason this is gonna be cool is because we genuinely, really get along with each other. Honestly, one of the great things about this place is that we've all known each other a really long time. A lot of us knew each other even before we started working here at espn and we don't get to see each other that much. You know, Michael's on the road with the Yankees, and when he's home, he's at the stadium and we're going to see him. By the time we get in, Carlin is already gone. You know, we don't get to interact with the morning show for obvious reasons. We're the drive time show, they're the morning drive show, and we don't get to see them. And Rick didn't come to Sasso softball this year. And. But so it's. So we're all going to be in the same room, like literally for the first time in, you know, since the beach bash, right?

Don Hahn (25:02)

Yes. I think that's the last time we were all together.

Chris Carlin (25:04)

And so you're gonna see that kind of bonding and we're gonna have fun and we're gonna be commenting on the game and it's. It's gonna be really cool to watch and you can have your game on and you can watch us on the computer. And since we're following the game, we're not gonna be interrupting you. So this is gonna be cool. It's. Yeah, it's a really unique experience.

Don Hahn (25:22)

Feel like we should do a list that night.

Chris Carlin (25:24)

We listen. We could do everything.

Don Hahn (25:26)

We should do a list.

Chris Carlin (25:27)

We could do a talk about it.

Don Hahn (25:28)

That's in the plans.

Peter Rosenberg (25:29)

You know, how many mics do we sense? Or there's no mics.

Chris Carlin (25:33)

We're just All.

Peter Rosenberg (25:34)

I believe that there will be mics.

Chris Carlin (25:35)

I believe that there are mics.

Don Hahn (25:37)

Not that you can. Not sure if you're gonna be able to hold them.

Chris Carlin (25:39)

I think they'll be situated properly so.

Don Hahn (25:41)

That everybody can be picked up.

Peter Rosenberg (25:42)

Got it. Okay. I'm trying to decide how many people can be talking, because you got it. You want to be able to have everyone contribute, but you also don't want it to be out of control because this. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Now, ESPN New York, by the way, go subscribe to the YouTube channel right now.

Don Hahn (25:57)

Yep.

Peter Rosenberg (25:57)

So it's that easy.

Chris Carlin (25:58)

Day of.

Peter Rosenberg (25:58)

When we get there, it's gonna be a time. Who are you most excited to see?

Chris Carlin (26:02)

Hmm. Well, I can't. The last time I literally saw Rick was at the Beach Bash. So I saw everybody at the Beach Bash, but I didn't really get to hang with Rick because these athletes go rogue. Rick is bouncing all over the place. I got this. I actually.

Peter Rosenberg (26:19)

It's not his athleticism that has anything to do with him being rogue. The alcoholism, not just.

Chris Carlin (26:25)

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Peter Rosenberg (26:28)

It was a great line, but what I meant in the seriousness was his drunkenness.

Chris Carlin (26:33)

One of the reasons it was a great line is it was. It was based in truth balls. Accurate. But it was still not something you should have said.

Don Hahn (26:39)

Not on the air.

Chris Carlin (26:40)

But I got to talk to Dave. It was documented. Somebody took a picture of me and Dave talking.

Don Hahn (26:47)

I did, actually.

Chris Carlin (26:48)

And Chris came out to dinner with us.

Don Hahn (26:51)

Yeah.

Chris Carlin (26:52)

After.

Don Hahn (26:52)

That was awesome.

Chris Carlin (26:53)

But Rick, Rick. So it'll really be nice to see Rick. So the answer is Rick, how about you?

Peter Rosenberg (27:01)

Answer is Rick. You know, I haven't spent. It's always nice to see Michael now that we don't do the show with him. I miss him. But I haven't spent time with Dave in a long time. You know, we. Carlin did come to dinner. Dave did not. So me. Maybe the Rothenbergster.

Don Hahn (27:19)

Great.

Chris Carlin (27:20)

You. You're just everybody.

Don Hahn (27:21)

I'm there, you know.

Chris Carlin (27:23)

All right. Yeah.

Peter Rosenberg (27:24)

No one's gonna remember Alan anyway.

Don Hahn (27:25)

That's right.

Chris Carlin (27:25)

So I'm.

Don Hahn (27:26)

I'm the wallpaper.

Peter Rosenberg (27:27)

He's wallpaper.

Don Hahn (27:28)

He's.

Peter Rosenberg (27:28)

He's. He's just the plain white door over there.

Chris Carlin (27:31)

That's it.

Don Hahn (27:32)

That's a great way to describe it.

Peter Rosenberg (27:33)

There's a white door.

Don Hahn (27:34)

Just a white door.

Peter Rosenberg (27:35)

Look right there with a window. Not even a window. He's windowless.

Chris Carlin (27:38)

It's interesting. He's selling this as, like, nobody pays attention to him. Nobody's going to remember him, but it's. If this was not a couch cast and it was a nightclub, the guy going home with somebody first would be out.

Peter Rosenberg (27:51)

Yeah. That doesn't help him out here.

Chris Carlin (27:53)

I'm just saying. Oh, he's going. Rjeff.

Peter Rosenberg (27:57)

Unbutton a bit.

Don Hahn (27:58)

Should we go a little more?

Chris Carlin (27:59)

I can't see his navel. So it's not rj. Did he get back to you?

Don Hahn (28:04)

No.

Chris Carlin (28:04)

All right. So I think he had a nerve.

Don Hahn (28:06)

I didn't get a response.

Peter Rosenberg (28:07)

He's probably gotten so many of those.

Don Hahn (28:09)

His phone. I'm sure he knew what he was doing.

Chris Carlin (28:11)

Yeah, he knew exactly what he's doing. And the people that were responding were probably not people like you that he was hoping to hear from.

Don Hahn (28:19)

You think so?

Chris Carlin (28:20)

Is he single?

Don Hahn (28:22)

I don't know. I do know that he has, like, a yoga studio here, I think here in the city.

Chris Carlin (28:26)

Really?

Don Hahn (28:26)

Or somewhere that does very well. And he's a big, big part of that.

Chris Carlin (28:31)

Let's go to Spencer. He's in Connecticut. You're on espn New York High. Spence.

Caller Spencer (28:36)

Hey, what's going on, guys? How's your day going?

Chris Carlin (28:38)

Good, man. I bad. You?

Caller Spencer (28:41)

Good, good, good. I want to preface my point by saying, first off, I'm not a Giants fan. I am a. I'm a Patriots fan, but I listen to the, you know, New York sports radio all the time, everybody talking about our. It reminds me of last year with Drake May and when to put. When we should put Drake May in. Patriots ended up putting him in. I think it was like week four, he ended up going in. And I think Giants should try to aim for something similar. You know, find a. I know that they're. They have a brutal schedule, so it's not a soft spot, but a soft ish spot somewhere in, like, weeks four to six and just get him teed up to start. Then he'll get 8 to 10. Something starts under his belt for the year. Everybody's saying, like, oh, if you, you know, don't put dart in or you do put dart in, like, you know, you're not trying to win. Like, no, the Giants are trying to win every single game they play. But you're not going to look back on the season and say it was a success because you won four, five, six games or whatever. It's going to be a success based on the progress that your team makes and more specifically, dart. So you gotta, you know, not treat it with kid gloves, but you gotta drop him into the situation with some guardrails so that when he has that game where he throws three picks or something. The world doesn't feel like it's coming crashing down. The kid, you know, you got to be able to teach him through that stuff. So I think they should find a spot, like I said, somewhere like weeks 4 to 6, 7 and drop them in there with, with some guardrails and let him do his thing. The only way he's going to get better at football is by playing football.

Chris Carlin (30:03)

But I don't, I don't 100% agree with that. Especially if you don't have the coach Spencer. So him playing could actually be detrimental if you don't have the right coach and you can learn from the sidelines. Patrick Mahomes did watching Alex Smith for 15 weeks before he finally played the last game of the season. So I don't agree with that.

Don Hahn (30:23)

As long as you're a competitive team.

Chris Carlin (30:26)

Where are you dropping them at? Everybody says the Saints, right? Because the Saints aren't good. That might be the one game the Giants are favorite. But guess what? After that game, short week Thursday Eagles.

Don Hahn (30:37)

Yep.

Chris Carlin (30:38)

So you want that Peter, he finally gets his feet wet against the Saints. And oh, by the way, now you got your first short week going up against the defending super bowl champion.

Peter Rosenberg (30:46)

And let's just say this honestly, the Saints game, as much as you have to get it, it basically doesn't count. It's basically all lost that game. If you don't win easily, if you win by three points, no one cares. Now if you win 37, three, great, that probably won't happen. And then if you win that one and loot get crushed by the Eagles immediately afterwards and that's all you have through six games. It did nothing. That's what was supposed to, right?

Chris Carlin (31:12)

But I don't even worry about that as much as, as like how it looked against the Saints. It's like, where can I get him a place where he's not going to get killed. He might have some nice things happen. It just seems like a good place to debut. Right.

Peter Rosenberg (31:26)

And from that standpoint, yes.

Chris Carlin (31:29)

And then now you're the starting quarterback and now Jalen Carter, you got a short week and you're going up against.

Peter Rosenberg (31:36)

The Philadelphia and Jalen Carter spitting in your face in five days.

Don Hahn (31:39)

You know what I'm realizing? Look where we are, New York look like. Look, look where you are.

Peter Rosenberg (31:47)

I know what you're saying. It's sad.

Don Hahn (31:49)

This is what it's about. When can you put in a new player that at least gives us reason to watch and care? Because you already don't Care.

Chris Carlin (32:02)

Like, think about them.

Peter Rosenberg (32:04)

This is where we.

Don Hahn (32:05)

No, no, it's not just on them. It just continues to be a thing. Thing here. It's just a constant rinse, repeat.

Chris Carlin (32:12)

That's what's sickening, guys.

Peter Rosenberg (32:15)

That's why I'm not saying this to.

Chris Carlin (32:16)

Be a jerk narrative.

Don Hahn (32:18)

The same thing with different names.

Peter Rosenberg (32:19)

I've lived this. It's horrible. It doesn't end. It's a nightmare.

Don Hahn (32:23)

Think of the. And I'm just. As I'm listening to our conversation, I'm trying to think of where. Where I can take us from here, right? And I always try to. I try to light the fire with Don, but I don't know if I can today with you. Because honestly, Don, you've done this. You've done. You have done this conversation over the course of your 20 years. 25. 20. 20, 24. 24. Next year, 25. Think about it. When it comes to football in this town, including, but with both teams in mind, how many times do you think you've had this conversation?

Chris Carlin (32:58)

Just basically, this feels like an every.

Don Hahn (33:00)

Two.

Chris Carlin (33:00)

Every.

Don Hahn (33:01)

Like you had Eli for a decade. So you had Eli C. The Giants never really were. The quarterback conversation after his first year, right? Never came up. But for the jets, this was. I mean, I just feel like I've. Like, sometimes you get this weird deja vu and you realize, like, my God, I have said the same thing. I'm just changing the names.

Chris Carlin (33:20)

They are killing football in New York. Like, you wonder it should. I remember. I remember I did a show with Tiki Barber years ago. He's like, don, why are there so many Cowboy fans in New York? I said, because when the Cowboys finally started getting it going as America's team, the jets and Giants were off. And so fans were like, I'm fed up with these bad teams. I'm going to go root for somebody else. I really think it's to the point now if the jets and Giants are going to continue to be this bad. And I feel good about the jets, but you got to start winning some games, too. But, you know, we'll see. Then you're going to see people like my son who's going to root for the Philadelphia Eagles. He's. His best friend's an Eagle fan. I told you. His teacher gives them the homework when the Eagles win. Because he's an Eagles fan.

Don Hahn (34:06)

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Chris Carlin (34:07)

Or somebody in New York's going to be like, you know, I'm watching. I'm watching the Eagles or I'm watching the Chiefs, because it's not like what it was when I was a kid. The reason that everybody rooted for the Cowboys, because they were always on Monday Night Football.

Don Hahn (34:19)

Yeah. And you know what else? And because what, what Sears, that one year before Christmas made all these jerseys of all these different teams and you could buy, you could get your Christmas gift. It could be a Cowboys jersey. Like that stuff wasn't. We could do this now. But back then, to order out of.

Peter Rosenberg (34:35)

A catalog, Sears catalog.

Don Hahn (34:37)

Yeah. It's just so hard to do. But you had like, like the, the white Cowboys jersey was there. The Steeler jersey was there. Of course, the one my parents got me was Richard Todd, Jets. Thanks mom.

Chris Carlin (34:47)

Thanks, dad.

Don Hahn (34:48)

But that's what you had so far.

Chris Carlin (34:50)

It was that jacket.

Don Hahn (34:51)

You buy it.

Chris Carlin (34:51)

Fake leather sleeves. Those are awesome.

Don Hahn (34:53)

I know it. So you, you buy that for your kid and they become a fan of that team just based off the jersey that you could buy. And then you watched it, you had Monday Night Football and all that. And that's how you get a generation of fans. Because I am not watching a team in my town. That sucks.

Chris Carlin (35:08)

No, I don't have to.

Don Hahn (35:09)

And guess what? We're there.

Chris Carlin (35:12)

I had to. I had to. My dad was a Giants fan. That's what he watched. But now you can root for anybody. Like Peter was talking about the other day, like he's a commander's fan. He's. He may not even get the Sunday ticket because how many times are on national television or, or playing the Giants, like that's, it's so many ways outside the market. Like, so if you continue to play this poorly, you know, you already, you already got rid of your season ticket holder list because of the PSLs. Now, I'm not saying football dying because football's still a beast and people love football, but they don't have to watch the jets and Giants. You continue to lose, you continue to be unproductive, you continue to be boring. You watch that Bills Ravens game. It was a different sport than the Giant Commanders. Completely different sport.

Don Hahn (35:58)

You're not lying. It's true.

Chris Carlin (36:00)

And as bad as the hockey teams can be, the basketball teams could be, the baseball teams can be, it never gets to the level, literally for a decade where you say, I'm watching a different sport than everybody else on the planet and I'm not going to do it anymore.

Don Hahn (36:15)

Remember when sports was supposed to be that distraction, you know, give you something to enjoy, feel good about, think about being on, think about a Sunday and you're going to watch the Giants and you're going to sit down and you're going to say to yourself, this is my team. We're playing the rival, and I hate my rival. And I'm really going to enjoy this. At some point during that day, you're gonna have to reconsider your decisions on that day. Right? Like, think like, I. Like, could you imagine saying to yourself, I'd rather. I'd rather go out, mow the grass. At least I'm getting something done. I'm sitting on a couch watching a team. What am I doing?

Chris Carlin (36:47)

Worse than hate is, like, when there's just complete disinterest.

Don Hahn (36:50)

Oh, my God.

Chris Carlin (36:50)

Not excited.

Don Hahn (36:51)

I just wasted all this time watching that.

Chris Carlin (36:53)

As bad and as disappointing as the baseball has been lately, we've got two teams. They're going to be going to the postseason. So we got something. So in October, we've got something to watch.

Don Hahn (37:03)

Right?

Peter Rosenberg (37:03)

I mean, at least for. Listen at least for three games.

Chris Carlin (37:05)

And then you've got what's going to be a really hype Nick season. It's going to start before October. So when the baseball's over, whatever happens, whether it's a canyon of heroes or eliminated in the first round right around the corner is going to be a really hype next season.

Don Hahn (37:17)

And let me tell you something. I'm one in all them. I already am. Like, guys, you understand this can't be one of these. Like, well, we got a new coach. It's going to take a minute.

Chris Carlin (37:25)

No, take advantage of.

Don Hahn (37:27)

This city is not going to have any patience by the time we get to late October. Late October, Peter.

Chris Carlin (37:32)

And how is it going?

Don Hahn (37:32)

Anybody in this town is going to have any patience?

Peter Rosenberg (37:34)

No, I mean, at that point, because.

Don Hahn (37:36)

You'Re already going to deal with whatever the hell happens at the end of the baseball season and the football season by then for either team, off the rails. Oh, my God.

Chris Carlin (37:43)

And, you know, like, people are going.

Don Hahn (37:44)

To be like, can we get some? Anybody? Good. Because we know the Rangers are going to be going through whatever transformation it's going to be.

Peter Rosenberg (37:50)

It's going to be. And by the way, there's only one.

Don Hahn (37:52)

Team that can save the day.

Peter Rosenberg (37:53)

The Knicks. Knicks are set up this year. The Knicks. Now, it's actually almost like you have to do it.

Chris Carlin (37:58)

Yes, it's a lot of pressure, but.

Don Hahn (38:01)

It almost feels like there's extra pressure because everybody else stinks.

Chris Carlin (38:03)

Yeah. And again, I don't think they think this way because I do think they try to win, but they'll be there. Because the dirty little secret is that 50% of that building were Steeler fans. So if the jets were playing the Titans in opening day, there's a very good chance that place would have been half full.

Don Hahn (38:21)

Good, good point.

Chris Carlin (38:23)

You know, so that, that's what's, that's when it's gonna be striking when the building's half full and people don't care because that, that's not. I think the jets kind of avoided it with the way that they played. So I think there's a little hype around them. But you know, eventually you start you bills and you're owing to like, Donny.

Don Hahn (38:41)

Why am I driving for two and a half, three hours through the God awful traffic in the middle of a fall afternoon to sit through in my home building? A performance is like this. Like, if that's what I'm getting, yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna lose people. It's gonna happen. And they say, well, no, football impenetrable. It's never gonna, it's, it's indomitable. But apathy is just as bad. It's like, I'm not even watching.

Chris Carlin (39:08)

Those people aren't gonna give up on football. They're still gonna love football. They're still gonna bet football. They're still gonna do their fantasy league. They're just not gonna consume you.

Don Hahn (39:14)

If it was easier, like, let's just say again, I'll use the example of to go to a Ranger game. I just get on a train, I walk upstairs, I'm in the building. It's, it's probably the easiest of any of our sports to get to in this town, right? Hockey and basketball, easiest. There's no real effort. So if you're like, yeah, yeah, I'll go because it's easy. But to go to a Giants game.

Chris Carlin (39:37)

And what are you doing?

Don Hahn (39:39)

Like, it takes you longer to get there or go home than it does to watch.

Chris Carlin (39:43)

And people, why am I doing this? Part of the process.

Don Hahn (39:47)

So you don't even fix that problem. You don't even make it easier. Like all the, all the decisions you have made have just continued to make it harder. But if your team was good, people would go because the team is so good. But you've made it so hard to.

Chris Carlin (39:59)

Get there and you're also boring and especially with the Giant not scoring.

Don Hahn (40:03)

So think about what we're doing here. We're talking about, we're having a conversation that we just keep having and at some point we just got to stop and say, you know what? The hell with them. Get it right. And then we'll talk about you. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Peter Rosenberg (40:21)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Don Hahn (40:23)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Chris Carlin (40:31)

Don Han and Rosenberg take you up at the top of the hour. Then it's Mets baseball back with you tomorrow at 3 o'. Clock. And that show will go to 6:30 because the Mets are a 7:15 first pitch tomorrow. So a little bit more Don Han and Rosenberg on Thursday. Back to the busy phones. Let's talk to Bill in Delaware. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Bill?

Caller Dave (40:52)

Hey, Don, what's up? I just, I just wanted to reach out to you again a couple of years ago when you and Peter were still with Michael.

Chris Carlin (41:03)

Yes.

Caller Dave (41:04)

I made the comment a couple of times that, you know, everybody was chastising Daniel Jones and I understand, I talk with Anthony. One game doesn't make a, you know, hall of Fame quarterback. However, I made the point two years ago that Daniel Jones cannot do much of anything because he has no offensive line. The same thing with Saquon. Saquon wasn't doing anything because he had no offensive line. And then what did Saquon do last year with an offensive line? Day ball. He may have been the quarterback whisperer for Josh Allen, but Josh Allen doesn't seem to lose anything since day ball left.

Chris Carlin (41:54)

No, that's true.

Caller Dave (41:55)

Where do we put, where do we put, you know, where would he put some blame? Where is, where is the point or what is the point where we say, gentlemen, we got a problem. And the problem is in the executive suite of the New York Giants and it's general manager and coach and what have you.

Chris Carlin (42:18)

Well, really, what it comes. What you're asking, Bill, is when do we say this is an ownership problem? Because you had Shane, but we were killing Gettleman, right? We were killing Reese before that and before Dable, we were killing Judge, we were killing Shermer, we were killing McAdoo, we're killing the offensive line. They've drafted high in the offensive line. They've signed free agents in the offensive line. But it's not just one gm. It's not just one head coach. It's not just one offensive line. So I think the real question, guys, is, is it the owner? And God love John Marra again, I'll say it all the time, and I know I sound like a broken record. I think he's a good man. And the Marra family holds a lot of water. But some very bad decisions have been made over the last 15 years to tell you that this might be an ownership problem. And the problem with complaining about ownership, guys, there's not a damn thing you can do.

Don Hahn (43:20)

Nothing you can do. The first mistake made was the way they sent Tom Coughlin into retirement. They sent him out to pasture. So worse that it was poorly handled. They sided with the notion that the players thought he was old and out of touch. And it was all had to do with Odell Beckham Jr. And how TC wanted to be a little more disciplined with him. And because he was a fan favorite and he liked to be animated, it became like, oh, you just don't understand how to handle today's player. How'd that work out?

Chris Carlin (43:53)

Right?

Don Hahn (43:53)

So you lose a standard, and that's an owner that recognizes. No, no, we need a standard. No, we have to have a standard of play. What we do, right, that it's. It starts there. What's our identity? Who are we not. I want the players to be happy again, I think both. Both the football teams in this town. Woody Johnson, the same problem. Woody does the same thing, wants players to be happy, wants buddies to be. Wants to be buddies with everybody, wants everybody to like him. You see the family, we saw that story. The family's always in the locker room, always around, like, all that stuff. Like that stuff, to me, is why you have poorly run franchises.

Chris Carlin (44:27)

Yeah, but the thing that's interesting with John, strong leadership compared to, like, Woody, I just think is a clown, right? And. But John. John. It's a fair point. John's biggest problem is he follows his heart. Like, this is the family business. This isn't a lark. This isn't a hobby. This is all he's ever cared about his whole life. And John Maurer is an example of when a fan owns a team, Right? And I think he follows his heart instead of his head, I think. And so that's the problem. And just because you're around football your entire life and just because you love the game and just because your father and your grandfather happen to own a team does not make you a football savant. Now, I give John credit. We've talked about this before. The Herman Edwards, the miracle of the Meadowlands, the Fumble, 1978. As Don Crickey's calling the game, the credits are rolling. And one of the things on the credit is stats. John Mar. Because he would come home from college and he would do stats for cbs. He loves football, but that doesn't mean, you know, football. And he's made very poor decisions. And a lot of the Decisions going back to Eli. Let's get into the super bowl for Eli instead of reading the writing on the wall saying, Eli looks cooked. Let's move on. Let's. Oh, we gotta. We gotta hire Gettleman from. From. From Carolina because he was a scout with the Giants back in the day.

Peter Rosenberg (45:49)

Ironically. Ironically, though the I love this team mentality of Mara last year would have been to keep Saquon. Shane didn't listen. And while it may have been the right choice, it still didn't age great.

Chris Carlin (46:01)

But. I know, I know.

Peter Rosenberg (46:03)

It just didn't play out.

Chris Carlin (46:04)

It didn't play out great. I get it. But you know what?

Don Hahn (46:06)

It's.

Chris Carlin (46:07)

They say Quant. They didn't win with Saquon either. 22. They did. I get.

Peter Rosenberg (46:10)

But no, they would have wasted a year. Saquon's life. It wouldn't have done anything otherwise. It's. It's the truth.

Chris Carlin (46:15)

They did say Quan. The greatest favor anybody ever done anything. He should.

Peter Rosenberg (46:19)

They should be the first. Thank you. In his hall of Fame speech.

Don Hahn (46:21)

Absolutely.

Peter Rosenberg (46:22)

We. We talked about this yesterday. The mark of a real franchise, when a team starts getting really good is when they're able to start letting go of people what feels like a beat early.

Chris Carlin (46:32)

If you're a fan.

Peter Rosenberg (46:33)

Yeah, that's what. That's what like, you know, And I was sad when the commanders let go of Brian Robinson. Oh, but guess what? Adam Peters knows how to draft people. They had someone better who's more economical. We've seen this. The packers, they're always letting go early of people, and then guess what? When it's time for it, they're able to make a monster move.

Don Hahn (46:51)

Look at the Eagles.

Peter Rosenberg (46:52)

Make a spot. Eagles, same thing.

Don Hahn (46:54)

The Eagles defensive line got old. They moved on from guys. They drafted guys to guys they love, and they just.

Peter Rosenberg (46:58)

You let go of guys they love with a year or two left.

Don Hahn (47:01)

But here's the thing. Fans love winning.

Peter Rosenberg (47:03)

Yeah, exactly.

Don Hahn (47:06)

Yes, Fans love winning. And that's something that ownerships don't understand. It doesn't matter. Yes, they love a player. They absolutely do. But if you're going to replace a legend with the next best thing, they're going to forget. They're going to move on because they love winning more than they love anything. They love winning more than they love their favorite player. That's a real thing.

Chris Carlin (47:27)

They don't know it at the time.

Don Hahn (47:29)

No, but that's it. So you have to be able to do these things and not get emotional about how we can't let him go. But no, get draft. Well, replace that guy and keep it moving.

Chris Carlin (47:39)

But it was the emotion, Peter, where yes, John Maris Hart said keep Saquon. But the noise outside was, john, let your football people do what they do and say, okay, I'll let my football people. And he let him do it.

Peter Rosenberg (47:51)

And then of course, ironically, it was a year when the team was horrible and Saquon wins a Super bowl ball. But it was the right thing because they ran the ball well.

Don Hahn (47:57)

It was the right thing to do.

Chris Carlin (47:58)

But. But it just, it's all a mess. It's just, it's just really.

Don Hahn (48:02)

And here we are going into week two wondering like what point this season can you have a reason to watch that? State of the trench.

Peter Rosenberg (48:09)

We only have one minute but let me, let me ask you this. As, as Aaron Rodgers highlights from last weekend. So jets come across my screen. If you guys had to pick right now, do you think Rogers has a similar season to last year or significantly better and kind of feels like Aaron Rodgers this year?

Don Hahn (48:23)

I wouldn't say significant. I wouldn't say similar to old Aaron Rodgers. I would say what you saw at the end of last season with the jets is probably along of what he's.

Chris Carlin (48:32)

Going to do overall better. It's a better team and he's a, he's a, he's further.

Peter Rosenberg (48:36)

We'll be thinking, oh, maybe he'll come do it again.

Chris Carlin (48:38)

He's removed from the Achilles. Yeah, I think he's going to have that kind of a season. But tough division when you got absolutely Baltimore to have to deal.

Peter Rosenberg (48:45)

Well, at least they gave one away for you.

Chris Carlin (48:46)

Yeah. That all with that helps. That does help, doesn't it? All right. We'll at least give you an extra half hour tomorrow. Red Sox losing, Giants losing. So that's good New York wise. So enjoy the baseball tomorrow. We've got week two to preview and we also got a lot of baseball to go over as well. And it's Thursday. That guy Thursday.

Peter Rosenberg (49:07)

Oh, there's a lot of guys this week.

Chris Carlin (49:09)

Enjoy the Mets here on ESPN New York.

Don Hahn (49:12)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good here, man. More of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.