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- [00:00]
Alan Hahn
Calling all sightseers and selfie takers. Welcome to Texas, where a day on our hiking trails will lead to a lifetime of memories. And family road trips become family legends where thrill seekers make a splash into spring fed pools and picky eaters will clean their plates. This is your invitation to visit Texas and see it for yourself because visit traveltexas.com and plan your family's trip today. Let's Texas this is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:35]
Don Le Greca
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:36]
Alan Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. All right, into the big five o'clock hour we go with Don Legreck. I'm Alan Hahn. Peter off today, 800-919-3776. The number to get into your calls. And in a moment we will get into this. This is a great story by Tom Berducci, which of course is, I mean obvious in si about Juan Soto and the Mets. And there's a lot of little nuggets in this thing that we got to break down, so we'll take time for that. But in the meantime, we're talking about a blown call last night by officials and the Islanders. They ended up losing in the shootout, which is more maddening than anything. But they thought they had a win with 10 seconds to go on a goal. It was waved off. They the explanation feels bogus and it's very frustrating when you have review and still everybody's eyes tell you one thing, but the league and the official is telling you the other. So we're getting reaction from that. At 800 now we're 93776. Let's go to Kevin out in Hawk. What's up, Kevin?
- [01:38]
Caller
Hey, Alan. First time, long time, I think, or one of those things. Whatever.
- [01:43]
Don Le Greca
I'm just fired up about this.
- [01:44]
Alan Hahn
Just don't make it your last time, Kevin. That's all I ask the head.
- [01:48]
Caller
I can't, I can't even understand how Toronto was involved at all without actually doing anything. Number one, when you look at it, first Bruce Leakins hits him with the blocker and then because he hit him with the blocker, Palmer is going forward. So when he reaches out to push him with his glove, he misses. Palmieri, because he's already away from the crease. That's what throws Berlin Brazil off balance and it's why he's out of position, not able to make anything close to a save there. Now when you compare how they were, they had zero courage to actually look at that and say, say anything about that and just go with it was inconclusive. When you have other leagues like the NBA where, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, you're an expert, Alan. They actually are now making calls with the idea of reviewing them, and if.
- [02:38]
Don Le Greca
They see other fouls committed.
- [02:40]
Alan Hahn
Yes.
- [02:41]
Caller
They'll actually call other valves. So they're actually going to get it right. Right. They're trying to get it right no matter what. Whereas in this case, Toronto just basically shrunk and did nothing. They completely just bailed and didn't want to make a call because, again, I think they didn't want to embarrass the ref who went ballistic on this call, which is, you know, you don't even see it.
- [03:02]
Alan Hahn
He did go crazy. I mean, Kevin, like I said, they. And you're aware that the two points on the table in this game for both of these teams are critical. So what you don't want to do is get involved late in the game like that. What you don't want to do is have a call that it's like, you know, it could go either way. So let's just stick with the original call then, and we'll leave it up on his shoulders, because that's what I think happened there, Don, as much as it's. And thanks for the call. Like, Don, I don't think this was. We don't want to show up the ref because there's no way you do that. You can't operate that way. What I think it was was, you know, like, this is. This is a 50, 50. And let's leave it on his shoulders. Like, we're not gonna overturn it. We're gonna leave it up that he's the one who made the call. So if he feels that strongly about it, then we're gonna go with his call.
- [03:51]
Don Le Greca
I don't. I don't. I don't think they have the appetite to change calls too often.
- [03:58]
Alan Hahn
Right.
- [03:59]
Don Le Greca
Unless it's bl. Now, I thought it was obvious, but again, it's in the eye of the beholder. And I do think that you are gonna be influenced by how emphatic the call was on the ice, because even watching the replay is not necessarily a parallel to what it was seen from the angle of the official. That's right. By the net. He's literally 10, 12ft away where he can hear the impact. He's in the moment. So I think they feel like more times than not, and I don't have the percentages, but I'm sure it's way over 50% where they're gonna go with the call. And I think that's the way it is in all sports. I think that's what you saw with the officials with the instant replay on the past interference. I do think that they're gonna try to stick together unless they cease it. That's why they say inconclusive. Cause we didn't see anything to blow us away to completely go opposite of what the call was. I did see it. You saw it. A lot of Islander fans saw it is a completely opposite of what was called. But unfortunately that is not how it went last night. Now I still think the Islanders did blow two one goal leads. They still had a chance to win the game in overtime. I'm with you, but I've always been where, you know one call should not cost you the game. There's other things that happen but still get it right. And that does not take away from get it right. But I also don't want to sit there and go that the Islanders weren't culpable in being in the situation they're in. The Columbus Blue Jackets are dead. They have two wins in their last 10 games. You had leads in the game. You've blown leads already this week. You blew lead against Calgary. Right?
- [05:30]
Alan Hahn
I know so.
- [05:31]
Don Le Greca
I know so I listen. Is it 10, is it 90 to 10%? Yeah, it's probably that. But I don't want to completely leave the Islanders off the hook because they put themselves in that situation where they should. They should have been able to put Columbus away earlier.
- [05:44]
Alan Hahn
They put themselves in position to win the game by a tip. Goal with 10 seconds to go. That's how I look at it. And the officials shouldn't be the difference maker in the game. No way. Yes. You could talk all you want about how well you had leads early in the game, but there's another team playing in this game too, and they're just as desperate. So I don't like that as an excuse. Now I'm going to ask you something before we get to the next call. Do the others have a reputation for crowding the goalie, for making contact with the goalie? I mean, it's not the first time they've had goals waved off because of contact. Like is, is this, is this a reputation that maybe the officials are aware of a little more heightened and aware of that they're looking for?
- [06:20]
Don Le Greca
I don't, I don't feel.
- [06:22]
Alan Hahn
Do we know anything about that?
- [06:23]
Don Le Greca
Not that I've ever heard, no. That this is something that they. There's been an issue where they're, you know, crowding the goal. Now, there were, Listen, there were. Take a look at the goals that were scored last night in the Devil Vancouver game. Like, every goal, there was somebody standing in the crease on top of the goaltender. It happens all the time. Do I think they're a little bit extra sensitive to it? Especially Couldn't. Could there have been. Now that we're getting late in the season, getting ready for the playoffs, Allen, could there be an edict sent protect the goaltenders? We don't need anybody getting hurt here completely changing the narrative for these teams. So let's be a little bit more heightened, a little more sensitive of what's happening in the crease. Well, if that's the case, take a look at the highlights of the, like the Devil Vancouver game. Every goal was a goal mouth scramble. Every goal, somebody was laying on top of the goaltender after the goal was scored, yet every one of them counted.
- [07:12]
Alan Hahn
How many times do we see a pile up in front of the. In front of a goal and a goal is scored? It's like the goalie had. Yeah, he was impeded because there were bodies everywhere. Like, it does happen. I don't want to belabor this.
- [07:22]
Don Le Greca
No, that's right.
- [07:22]
Alan Hahn
It's maddening to me.
- [07:24]
Don Le Greca
No, it is that.
- [07:25]
Alan Hahn
It was such a great moment and a great tip and we take it away over a judgment call. One more on this Brian in Rockville center, because he's been waiting. How you doing, Brian?
- [07:35]
Caller
How's it going, guys? I, I woke up red hot about this. This is a huge game for the Islanders and, you know, I just don't think. And I've been, I've been calling the station for a long time and I never get to talk Islander.
- [07:45]
Don Le Greca
So.
- [07:45]
Caller
Han, I thank you for that. But I, I, you know, you can call us.
- [07:49]
Alan Hahn
You can call us Brian. We'll talk hockey with you.
- [07:51]
Caller
Trust me, I'm calling. You know, I'm gonna put my tin hat on because. And hear me out, there was. There was four face offs to in the Islander zone, and Palmieri was going nuts. He was going crazy about something that Monahan was doing on the Face Off. Now, two of them, they lost outright. They didn't deserve. And that, that was the tying goal, right? So the referees blew at least two of those because Palm Ari deserves that respect. If he's going nuts about something which he doesn't normally do, there was something going on with that. So the refs blew that. And I'm so tired of the Islands being little brother in this town and all over the place. I know they're not the most exciting team to watch, but I'm going to put my tin hat on and say, Toronto sort they saw what the Islanders did last year. They were the hottest team in this month last year they went and they want a crazy run and they made the playoffs and it's probably not great for ratings. So Toronto sort, they see what the Islanders can do and now they say, you know what? They're going to make a push. We're going to. We're going to disallow this goal. Because there's no way I woke up so hot about this. There's no way. That was goalie interference especially. I was watching the Vancouver and Jersey game too. You're 100% right. They were going nuts. Nuts in front of the net. And you're going to call that. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And if that turns out to be the reason why the Isles don't make the playoffs, I know they have a long way to go. Shame on the NHL now.
- [09:06]
Alan Hahn
Thank you, Brian. Now, you know what happens here, Don, because there's no way the officials up in Toronto are deciding whether or not they want the Islanders to win. But it. This type of stuff in every league opens that kind of conversation. It allows for this. It allows for Brian to go tin hat because you do this well. But we all know that's not true.
- [09:28]
Don Le Greca
But honestly. And listen, I. I've done national shows for hockey where the playoffs. Oh, my God, that's all we would do is me and EJ or when I did it with Jim Cerny would take phone calls up and down about the refs hate us. They want. They. They want the Canadian teams to win. The Canadian fans are like, oh, they want the US Teams to win. There is no conspiracy theory. There are good and bad calls, but I don't think there's any conspiracy theory because again, listen, would the Columbus Blue Jackets be a great story if they made the playoffs after what happened to Goudreau? No question. But listen, they can't. Tim Peel lost his job. Tim Peele was a respected official in the NFL. NHL lost his job because overheard saying that he was going to make up a call. If you remember. Like, they're sensitive to this stuff. So I don't think. I think there's anything more. Then they didn't want to overturn what was an emphatic call on the ice. And listen, we could be doing a show in Columbus. And if they reversed it, I'm sure Their fans would be screaming, wait a minute. The official that was the closest to the play emphatically waved it off. They don't want Columbus in because we're a small, like. So everybody that has a dog in the fight is gonna look at it that way. I don't. If I did have a dog, it'd probably be the Islanders. I get it. But at the same time, I thought it was an egregious call. But do I wanna put the tin hat on? Do I wanna get into the conspiracy theories? No, I don't think anything like that happened.
- [10:45]
Alan Hahn
I just think they screwed it up. I'm declaring incompetence. That's all I'm doing here. I'm just declaring that more than anything else. But anyways, we'll move on. 800 now. 193776, it's Alan Hahn and Don Legreca here with you. 880, ESPN, the ESPN New York app. So Tom Verducci does a story in si. And by the way, do they still print? Because they have a digital version of an SI cover and it's the Mets or on the COVID of si. And so, like a little old school kind of feel to it as we open the season. And this is Don. This is a fascinating story on so many levels. I thought. I thought Michael K. Had an unbelievable open to his show this afternoon because he took it from a Yankee perspective on things that Soto said later in the story, which we'll get to. But, Don, you're a Mets fan. What if I told you that Verducci has revealed that Steve Cohen was told by Boris that his initial offer, quote, steve, you're not even in the hunt, end quote.
- [11:46]
Don Le Greca
Right?
- [11:47]
Alan Hahn
And Cohen's response was, all right, I'm out. And he was out, walked away. I'm done. I'm gone. I'm Juan Soto. And that it took Boris the next day to send him an email and to point out, hey, listen, I'm an agent. You know, my job is to, you know, is to do a couple of things here. One is to give you a vision of the market so you can compete. The other one, you know, is to get the best thing for my player. I'm always going to be honest with you, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. And that email with his explanation to Cohen led Cohen to respond on the email, all right, I'm open. And so he was back in, right? The agent wouldn't let Steve Cohen walk away from the negotiations. You gotta love that, right? To be in.
- [12:37]
Don Le Greca
You gotta love that. Because he needed him in because once he lost, because he knew that there was a lot of money to be had there. But I also like the fact that Steve Cohen wasn't just going to be, all right, whatever he wants, I'm going to sign him. Why not play hardball if you can? Like the idea? I love the idea that because you're a billionaire, you can go to the supermarket and pay $100 for eggs. No, you. You still want to get the best price you can for anything, no matter how much money you make. So, like, Steve Cohen's like, yeah, you're the best player in baseball. You're available. I'm going to give you what I think you're worth, but I'm not going to spend like a drunken sailor. And I love that they stick at the Boris every chance you get. Listen, I'm happy that the Mets got their guy, but the idea that Boris can just walk around and just like, command all of whatever money you want. We saw two years ago how many guys did not have contracts at the start of the season. You saw what happened to Pete Alonso. He's not a magician anymore, man. And I'm. I'm happy that these billionaires are realizing that, well, I could play hardball, too, man.
- [13:34]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
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Don Le Greca
And so good for Steve.
- [13:36]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. So. So he wouldn't let him walk away, and he could have. And cone could have walked away. Could you imagine if he walked away? And then Boris was like, all right, you're out. Like, I got other teams. No, he pulled them back in. So then they have this meeting. This is Virtucci story. They had this meeting down in Boca and apparently didn't go well. Soto, when he met with Cohen, said one of the most important prerequisites was protection in the batting order. So, like, he, He. He mentioned Manny Machado, he mentioned Aaron Judge, and he told Cohen the Mets didn't have enough protection in the lineup to suit him. That's what Soto says to him. Cohen was annoyed by this, didn't like it, at one point, said, why are we even having this meeting? It sounds like you're coming up with a lot of reasons why you don't want to come to. So they all left. Cohen told Stearns, I think he's going back to the Yankees. And he believed that. The next day, Boris calls Cohen again, and he says, that was a really great meeting yesterday. And Cohen was flabbergasted. And he said, that was one of the worst meetings I've ever been in. And then Boris said this. And this is when, you know, he's a salesman. Juan liked you. You definitely checked the ownership box. Like, you feel like you see what's going on here. Was. Was Boris messing with everybody. So anyways, they finally get back and forth. They do all this stuff. They did some valuations on him. They believed he was worth over a billion dollars to a franchise. So it ends up where, you know, we all know how the story ends. But now let's take it to the Yankee side of it. The whole Yankee side of this thing that really blew my mind was Soto admitting to Verducci that he said the Yankees were number one from day one. So, you know, he was wearing. He wasn't wearing a Yankee hat when they had lost in the World Series. That whole thing where it felt cold, where it looked like, oh, this guy's gone. No, he said, the Yankees were my number one. That's. The Yankees were the lead dog. It's where he wanted to be. That was his preference. But he felt like nothing really, like, happened from there. So he shot down the story about the family being upset with security. He said none of that ever happened. All that stuff that's not true. The Yankee security, all those guys, everybody treated my family well. So this whole notion that the Yankees did mistreat his family, he said, bogus story, not true. The bigger issue, I think that he had, or it seems like he had with the Yankees was that for the Mets, they just seem way more engaged. They seem way more into it. And that for the Yankees, they were kind of waiting around on the Yankees to come up with, like, all right, what's it going to be? What are we going to do? What's the number? And he felt like the Yankees were not moving at the same speed that the Mets were. He said, like, isn't that interesting? Like, like, like. So did the Yankees lose this more than we think? The Yankees were the lead dogs here, Don. We all thought all along. Now, this is, if you want to believe Soto, but we all believed all along that he was gone. He was just going for the highest bidder. This is everything he wanted. But when he tells Verducci the Yankees from day one were number one, and then something happened since that moment, and it had nothing to do with security or how his family was treated and all that stuff. It had to do with this sense that the Mets were a lot more. I don't want to use the word aggressive, but it feels like from reading this story that the Mets were just way more engaged than the Yankees. That's weird to me.
- [17:13]
Don Le Greca
But this is still about Money in the sense that, listen, we're talking about not just generational wealth. I mean, just ridiculous amounts of money that we're talking about. So you would think the differences are negligible as far as, like, what I need to survive. Right, we're beyond that. Or what your grandkids are going to need to survive. It is ridiculous. The wealth.
- [17:32]
Alan Hahn
No, these contracts are worth.
- [17:35]
Don Le Greca
No. It's also about being wind and dine, being courted. And what I respect about the Yankees is that they're the Yankees. So as important as a player Juan Soto is, he's not more important than the team. He's not more important than the Yankees and their brand. So they treated him like any other free agent. We're going to make you an offer what we think is fair, take it or leave it. Where the Mets really showed how much they wanted him, how much they loved. That's what they want. The money speaks to that. But also just the effort that's made trying to make him feel special. That's why these guys want to become free agents. They want to find out what they're worth. How much do you really want me? It's one thing to slide a piece of paper across the table with a number on it. That's one way. But it's another way to be able to really show how much you love me, how desperate you want me. These players really respond to things like that. So, yeah, to define it as a, you know, sweets or different little perks. But it's also, how far are you willing to go to bring me to your team? And the Mets just seem to show the love where the Yankees were all business. And I respect that about the Yankees, but maybe the Mets being a courting a little bit more and trying a little harder to win them over maybe, was what he's talking about. I think that's important to these players.
- [18:58]
Alan Hahn
I'm going to read you the money quote, right? And this, this is, this is him about the Yankees. And then the last thing that I really would set me off. All right, so. Because this whole thing's fascinating until I got to the end of the story and the last quote that I read about the Yankees that he said to Verduce set me off. Okay, so I'll give you the. This is the money, though. This to me is the money quote here. So. And I'll read the whole. The excerpt from. From the story in SI by Tom Verducci. So he said the Yankees sort of says simply did not fill him with confidence quote. I mean, they Made a pretty good effort, he says, but we went back and forth with a lot of things. We tried our best, but I don't know, I just feel like it's just weird. It's kind of like, how can I explain it? He then was quiet for 10 seconds, and then he says, I feel the Yankees did a pretty good job, but they kept. They couldn't get it done. Like, I wanted to get it done, but they were still bouncing around here. Maybe, maybe. No, instead of just get it done right away. Yeah, just get it done. So he's making it clear that the Yankees had the chance to lock him up early in the process, but because they kept, it sounds like they were hemming and hawing. It opened the door for the Mets. And the more aggressive the Mets got, the more he's like this. This is a better energy. I kind of like this. So there's that now. Oh, just quick explanation.
- [20:28]
Don Le Greca
It's that whole thing where, you know, in football where, you know, Wilson is visiting with the Giants, like, don't let them leave the building. You got it. Like that kind of feel to it, right? Like, you want to get it done. Let's sit down, let's get this done. You're not signing anywhere else but here. Like, it doesn't sound like the Yankees had that attitude. Go ahead. I'm sorry, right?
- [20:47]
Alan Hahn
No, no, that's exactly it. They don't have that attitude. Now, the other part, and the part that really, really. Again, what. What Michael K. Was saying today, and he's absolutely right, is Soto admitted. He said, I know this is a quote. I know the Yankees are going to be good for the next five, six years. We don't know after that. That's the quote that pissed me off.
- [21:22]
Don Le Greca
Okay.
- [21:22]
Alan Hahn
Because it's. To me, if he's just saying it to say it, or if he's. If he really feels that way, it tells me that as much as he loves baseball, he doesn't pay attention to his own sport. Because there's one thing. Now, we have criticized the Yankees about how they're not the Yankees anymore or all this other stuff. But the one thing that we all know about the Yankees, I think every year, if I told you, Don, you have to put money down on one, One bet that you feel is a sure bet, that one bet that I know you'd put your money down on, is that the Yankees will have a winning record. It may not be. It might be barely over.500, but every year you could put your money on it for as long as I'VE been an adult. That's right.
- [22:06]
Don Le Greca
True.
- [22:07]
Alan Hahn
Since I turned 18, this franchise has never had a losing record ever. So to tell me that this is. Well, I don't know what they're gonna be in five years. I know what they're gonna be. They're gonna win. You know who you don't know in five years? The Mets.
- [22:21]
Don Le Greca
Why?
- [22:21]
Alan Hahn
Because look at their history, that's why. So that's a bogus quote. It's ridiculous. And it does make me question some of the other things that he said.
- [22:29]
Don Le Greca
Now, I've got a lot to say coming up.
- [22:31]
Alan Hahn
Yes, I know you do. So you'll get your chance. And we got calls. 800 now, 193776 on Juan Soto and this Yankees versus Mets that is only just beginning. Don Han and Rosenberg, 880 ESPN.
- [22:44]
Don Le Greca
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- [23:13]
Alan Hahn
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- [23:27]
Don Le Greca
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Alan Hahn
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Don Le Greca
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Alan Hahn
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- [23:45]
Don Le Greca
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- [23:46]
Alan Hahn
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Don Le Greca
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- [24:00]
Alan Hahn
Sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [24:11]
Don Le Greca
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [24:12]
Alan Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us, wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Don Le Grec Allenhot back here with you. 880 ESPN, ESPN New York app. So. All right, Don. So we broke down the whole Verducci story. Juan Soto, his reasoning. Boris making sure Steve Cohen stayed in the game until they got what they wanted. Him. Soto saying the Yankees were number one at the start, they were the priority at the start, and that they kind of were, you know, dragging their feet the whole time. And then he fell in love with the Mets. So I gave my take. Take the floor.
- [24:48]
Don Le Greca
All right, first of all, I don't believe any of that gobbledygook anyway. Everybody's got some story, right? Jason Giambi signed with the Yankees because his dad was a big Mickey Mantle fan. Jack Morris signed with Minnesota because he grew up in Minnesota. Wins a World Series with him, Bang. The next thing you know, he's out as a free agent, I guess. Will you stop growing up there? Now I remember Mike Hampton went to Colorado because of the schools. Like, nobody ever wants to admit the real reason why they went. They paid me a boatload of money and that's why I went there. But you'll come across as a selfish, you know what? So you come up with other things. So I don't buy it for a second. But let's just play the game and say that he actually thinks that. Let's try to read into it. You got Steve Cohen, who's paying top dollar for free agents, right? He brought back Alonso when many people thought he was gone and pays top dollar for Juan Soto. And the Yankees are working with a budget. Is that something that he's looking at and saying, listen, they got a lot of good players here. Judge isn't going anywhere. They're spending money, third, fourth highest payroll in baseball, but they are working with a bit of a budget. And I'm seeing what San Diego did before their owner died. I saw what Washington did before their owner died. Steve Cohen's a hedge fund guy. He's throwing millions of dollars. That whole mom and pop mentality of the Yankees are a very, a self sustaining financial machine that is working within that construct where you have other billionaires who are like, I'm sitting on $16 billion, I'm going to throw whatever money I want around? Is that the angle he's showing that, hey, you know, everything's gonna be fine, but in a few more years with this money getting thrown around and the Yankees aren't gonna spend that kind of money, could we start to see not the demise of the Yankees, but where it's gonna be harder and harder for them to be able to sustain their winning, where a lot of these other billionaires will be able to keep it going. I don't believe that necessarily, Allen. But is that if he was honestly telling the truth, which I don't think he. But if there was some truth to it, is there something to that? Look, projecting the Yankees and the Steinbrenner and the way that they are fiscally responsible, being damaging to them, being a consistent winner, that would be.
- [27:03]
Alan Hahn
That's next level.
- [27:05]
Don Le Greca
Well, that's how I try to play it.
- [27:07]
Alan Hahn
You just did, because I didn't consider. But, no, no, but. But, like, you're right. How damaging is that? If. And I don't know if Soto's really thinking for himself here. I think a lot of this was Boris. I think Boris was filling him with a lot of information and a lot of things to consider. And maybe that's what he's trying to say is, you know, five years from now, yeah, I know what the next five years are like because Aaron Judge is there. And I had the best season of my career with Aaron Judge, who's, you know, arguably the best player in baseball. Right? Him and Shohei Ohtani. So. But after five years, Aaron Judge is going to be in his mid-30s. We don't know what his production is going to be, and I don't know what the egg is going to look like after that, because they're still paying Aaron Judge until his late 30s. They're paying Garrett Cole into his late 30s. And I don't know what we're going to look like, because what I do know about this owner is he's not necessarily a guy that's going to continue to pile money on top of money. Right? So if you're translating it that way, Don, that would really disturb me as a Yankee.
- [28:16]
Don Le Greca
That's the only way to translate it, because as you said, the Yankees haven't finished under.500 in three decades. So if you read the tea leaves, you don't have to be, you know, a guy that can memorize the Baseball Digest to know how good the Yankees have been for the last 30 years.
- [28:31]
Alan Hahn
Right?
- [28:31]
Don Le Greca
So, but they're thinking, and Boris especially looking and saying, well, this is a franchise that is more mom and pop than a lot of other franchises. You've got the 1% in the world spending billions of dollars for their teams, sinking a ton of money into it, and then still turning it around for a profit a decade later. The Steve Cohens have become somewhat of the norm. We've seen. Look at San Diego. San Diego's a player. They were a player now with their owner. Now, that changed now because he passed away. Same thing in Washington. But we're seeing these smaller market teams kind of figuring out ways to be able to have great teams without spending a ton of money. But we're also seeing guys come in that are billionaires willing to dip into their own funds to see their team win immediately. The Yankees can't do that. I mean, House steinbrenner is worth $8 billion because that's what the Yankees would sell for. Probably more if they sold it. Now, they print money over there, don't get me wrong. But not as much as a lot of other teams do. And it does seem like they are being a lot more fiscally responsible than they were back when they were winning four championships in five years where they were willing to make sure they had All Stars on top of All Stars on top of hall of Famers on their bench. Oh, let's go out and get Tim Rains. We'll get Darryl Strawberry. You know, we'll get Chilly Davis. We'll get a Roger Clemens. Those days. Can we admit those days are over? Feels that way.
- [29:55]
Alan Hahn
They just lost the biggest free agent.
- [29:56]
Don Le Greca
We'Ve seen the last 25 years.
- [29:58]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [29:58]
Don Le Greca
They also were not in on Harper. They were not in on Machado, like.
- [30:02]
Alan Hahn
Yep.
- [30:02]
Don Le Greca
So it's a different world we're living in, man. And I'm not saying it's a bad world, but I think it's a more fiscally responsible world.
- [30:09]
Alan Hahn
And you say fiscally responsible at $300 million, that's still one of the highest payrolls in the sport at giving Max Freed way more money in years than you'd want to. But they knew they had to, you know, so. So we're saying fiscally responsible, but it's not like they're the Kansas City Royals, you know, they're not doing that.
- [30:27]
Don Le Greca
No, but that's why. Yeah, that's why. Or frugal.
- [30:31]
Alan Hahn
Here's. Here's my last thing on it. And I'd love to get the calls, but I love what you just said. And you just open my eyes, as you always do every day, to something I wasn't even considering, which is, you know, the angle of the spending with the Yankees and the reputation that they're starting to develop. But I. My takeaway from this story, my biggest takeaway is I really feel like Scott Boris wanted him on the Mets. Scott Boris wanted him on the Mets. And he wouldn't let Steve Cohen walk away. He kept bringing him back. No, no, just hanging it, like bringing him in, luring him in. Knowing the guy loves collecting art, knowing the guy loves this, that he wants this. This is why you bought this team. And I think that Scott Boris wanted Juan Soto on the Mets for various reasons. One of them being it's an owner that's willing to give a ton of money to give you all you want, make you the prince, the prince of Queens. But this is now your team because on the Yankees it's never going to be your team. It's always going to be Aaron Judge's team.
- [31:33]
Don Le Greca
Yeah.
- [31:33]
Alan Hahn
The Mets are your team. And I think having Judge and Soto in New York, the kings of both of their teams. Did you see the quote from Brandon Nimmo?
- [31:44]
Don Le Greca
Yeah.
- [31:45]
Alan Hahn
Nimmo has a quote saying we're no longer going to be the little brother, you know, we're not going to be that anymore. So they're already putting that statement out there. Don, do you think that my theory, my, I'm going to put my tinfoil hat on. I think Scott Boris wanted him on the Mets. He wasn't going anywhere else. He wasn't leaving New York, but he wasn't going to stay on the Yankees. He wanted him on the Mets. Yeah.
- [32:06]
Don Le Greca
Because I think if it started to get to where I can't afford to lose him, the Mets were not going to be denied. And that's why I think going to the Mets was important. And because the other thing that you said is kind of interesting because he signed a 15 year contract. The Yankees offered him a 16 year deal. There is going to be life after judge. Judge is 31 years old, so it would eventually become his team, but not now, not for a while. Judge, I think is going to be good for at least the next four or five years. So there was that attractiveness of you're the man. And, and I think the Mets might be more inclined to show him more promotional value, I guess.
- [32:47]
Alan Hahn
Sure.
- [32:47]
Don Le Greca
You know, because of how the Mets kind of go about things as opposed to the Yankees that are a little bit more business like, you know, so listen, winning is ultimately, ultimately the goal, but maybe you can have a little bit more fun, let your hair down a little bit more with the Mets. I mean, I, I, I, I'm, I think getting the Mets involved and then having them ultimately land with the Mets was probably the end game for Boris. Yeah.
- [33:08]
Alan Hahn
Let's get some calls. 800 now with 9, 3, 7, 7, 6. Justin in the car. You Start us off, Justin. Oh, no pressure.
- [33:16]
Caller
So I'm glad that Don came in and said what he did because we knew for months, we've known since the World Series ended, this was going to be all about money. He put the Boris hat on, spun it to the front and was ice cold while those guys were despondent in the outside. So now this is just typical, like, like Don said, this is Boris spinning up some media stuff. And, and really what hit me was something Alan said a few weeks ago about reading between the lines with Judge said where he was like, if you need all these things to be here, then you don't really want to be here. I took that as a shot at Soto and the more that I hear from this article, the more I think that it really was a shot. You know, you need the suite, you need clothes for your mother, you need a private plane, you need the most money in the world. Then you know what, good riddance and.
- [34:04]
Alan Hahn
Get out of here.
- [34:05]
Caller
So I think that, that this is icier between Judge and Soto than anybody really knows.
- [34:12]
Don Le Greca
But the scary thing about that, and I'm 100% with you, it does, it is kind of sickening that you need that. But aren't we trending that way with most athletes that this is kind of the way you're going to have to conduct yourself? Maybe that's another aspect to it is like if the Yankees are going to play hardball, which again I respect because the name on the front is more important than the name on the back. But the way that these athletes are trending and that's why maybe the Yankees changed the facial hair policy. Like they got to get with the times and maybe part of the times is we got to wine and dine these guys. We got to do it because the interlocking NY might not be impressive enough for them that they're going to want to, they're going to want to be shown how important they are. So is that an adjustment the Yankees are going to have to make moving forward with some of these modern day athletes?
- [34:56]
Alan Hahn
And I'm telling you, don't think that him saying the Yankees were the poor, the first team, they were the priority at the beginning. Like, don't think that's him just putting that, oh, I'm just saying that to be nice or whatever because if I'm the Mets, I don't want to hear that. Right? Like, I don't want to know that you actually wanted to stay with the Yankees but you chose us. Like, I don't want that. I want to know that we were always the team you wanted. So don't think that he's, he's just saying that. No, I think that's a real thing. That's a real thing. He really did have it in his head that he was going to stay with the Yankees because he, because of Aaron Judge. So there's a lot. There's a, there's a lot here. It's an onion. We're peeling it. 800 now at 93776. We'll get to more calls on this because this, like I said, this is a fascinating story that we're going to spend a lot of time on. But first, Don, please, a message.
- [35:49]
Don Le Greca
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- [36:20]
Alan Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [36:23]
Don Le Greca
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [36:25]
Alan Hahn
Catch this show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get back to the calls. 800-919-3776. A lot of people want to sound off on this. Let's go to Gabe in Rockland. What's up, Gabe? Hey, guys.
- [36:43]
Caller
How are you today?
- [36:44]
Alan Hahn
All right, good.
- [36:46]
Caller
Real quick. I want to just make two points. One, when I was reading the article, I just kind of got the sense that Helen Cashman were looking at and saying, are we going to be able to make it work with the budget that they have set? And it kind of upset me hearing that Soto said that we were the number one option. But again, I mean, it is what it is. But one thing that Alan, you said, what about being fiscally responsible? I don't mind having a budget. I know 300 million is a lot of money, but you have to look at the decisions that they've made. Like the lemayu contract is terrible. Rodin contract is looking terrible. Picking Harper, picking Stanton over Harper when.
- [37:21]
Alan Hahn
Harper wanted to be a Yankee.
- [37:22]
Caller
I mean, these are things that, so I don't mind even if they said, you know, 250 million. If you have a Budget, that's fine, but the decisions have to be better.
- [37:32]
Alan Hahn
And it's how you spend it. You know, I've long said so. I'm glad you said this, because I have long said this, that I've never blamed Hal Steinbrenner. I have always said. The question I would love to ask Al Steinbrenner, if I ever got the chance to interview him, is I would say, do you think your money is being spent wisely? That's what it is. It's not how much he's willing to spend, it's how it's been spent. I think that's the bigger question, Don. Yeah, that's the bigger issue. You got it. Thanks, Gabe. It's right down.
- [38:04]
Don Le Greca
Like.
- [38:04]
Alan Hahn
Like, that's always been my issue. It's when people want to criticize how Steinberg always being cheap. Oh, he's not. No, no. He still has one of the highest payrolls. So if he's on a budget, it's a very, very high budget that most franchises would love to operate with. The problem is, is that sometimes some of the money is not used wisely at all, and they are stuck with some contracts off. Bad decisions by the guy that you hired to make those decisions with the budget.
- [38:28]
Don Le Greca
And that's. That's a fair criticism of Cashmen, rather than saying that you got to double down, spend even more money to overcome your mistakes, which they did in the past. You know, not every decision they made was Perfect in the 90s and early 2000s, but they had a way to buy their way out of mistakes. But when you have Stanton, which has been good in the postseason, but overall, that contract did not age well. Was it even necessary? To begin with, you had a team that came within a game of going to the World Series, and you make the trade for Stanton, and he hasn't been healthy, and you got to navigate through the regular season, which you haven't been able to do with him. Hey, every fan wanted to give DJ Lemayu whatever he wanted. Well, that turns out to be a mistake. And that contract has not aged well either. And even. Listen, Cee Cee gave you a championship, but that was also a bit of an albatross contract towards the end, as great as he was.
- [39:16]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, he's a great leader, though.
- [39:17]
Don Le Greca
Well, he's a great leader. No, but it did affect what to do, because now when you're in those contracts. You know what? I can't give Harper that kind of a deal because I still have all these years left on guys that aren't producing Even the Judge contract probably is not going to age very well either because the back end of that contract is somebody that is not going to live up to the money he's making.
- [39:38]
Alan Hahn
I understand that. And again, I still think there's value in leadership and standard. I think Sabathia did that. I think Judge will do that. The problem I have is, you know, making the Stanton move even though they are eating up, you know, the Marlins were eating up some of that money. It's, it's a guy like him that, you know, okay, he's always getting hurt. It's Ellsbury, like that's a bad contract. Like, you know, LeMayhue. So what? The fans all agreed and the media all agreed. Oh, you gotta pay him. Your job is to know better than us. Your job is to be able to forecast the fact that, you know, I don't know, he's getting late. He's getting late in his career and maybe we've gotten all the juice out of the squeeze. Like sometimes you've got to see that coming. That's your job. I don't know if they saw it coming. That's the stuff that bothers me. You know, you can, we can reason away a lot of decisions. The problem is, is we shouldn't have to do that because you're supposed to be the best at what you do. It's the New York Yankees. You can hire the best, you can make better decisions. That's all I'm going to say about that. I never like going back to. Well, everybody would have given him that money. But that's everybody. Not the guy that is supposed to be smarter than everybody else. That's the issue. I have done.
- [40:52]
Don Le Greca
Yeah.
- [40:53]
Alan Hahn
Jacobson, Selden, Jacob.
- [40:57]
Caller
How's it going guys? Listen, I think, I think every Met fan is secretly loving every but hurt Yankee fan. That sounded off right now. And I think, I think Don makes a great point about the money being spent now. Because Alan, you said it yourself. You know, Juan Soto says the Yankees probably aren't. Couldn't be good in five or six years. You've been saying it over and over again. The standard is different. And continuing with Don said, if everyone's spending this type of money, it's a very realistic possibility the Yankees aren't going to be the same Yankees like you have been saying they haven't been.
- [41:32]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. You're not wrong.
- [41:34]
Don Le Greca
Starting to change now, right? That's the fear how long they've gone without a World Series. It's still. There's something to finishing above 500 every year. But at some point it might not be that easy to be able to get out of it. Remember, the money isn't just the money that you spend on the players. It's having the most money for your scouts. And the international money that's become available. When I say they're fiscally responsible now is that, hey, when they make a bad signing, it's going to hurt and it's going to affect the next thing that they do. That never happened back in the day. All right, our second baseman's not working out. We'll just get another one.
- [42:08]
Alan Hahn
Right?
- [42:09]
Don Le Greca
You saw a lot of doubling down. I was bringing up, you know, oh, we need that power hitter. Or get Glenn Allen Hill, get Chilly Davis, get Jose Canseco, bring them all in. One of them is eventually going to stick. And if we got to eat a ton of money, so what? But that's not the way you run a good business anymore. And there's other franchises out there that can do it too. And remember when the Yankees were winning those World Series, who was it about? The Mets spent. The Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, handful of teams. But now, you know, the Padres are spending a ton of money. You saw the Nationals spend money. Phillies are up there in payroll. Red Sox make it work despite having a smaller building. Right. I mean, you just. Baltimore is going to eventually start spending some money they got. They're willing to start throwing some money around that they never threw under the previous ownership. Right. So you got a lot more competition now. And it's not even about market size. It's just what hedge fund billionaire decides he wants to have a hissy fit and spend a bunch of money, you know, because he just lost some money in a divorce and is mad and he wants his toy to look better and shinier. And then if it doesn't work out, so what? He'll sell it for double what he paid for it. This is what we're dealing with, guys. The San Diego order. I'm sorry. But he spent that money because he knew he was dying of cancer and he wanted to get a championship before he passed away. Same thing happened in Washington. He had a 90 year old. What happened with Ilitch in Detroit? Same thing. He's in his 90s. He wants a ring. Money be damned. Howe can't do that. Howe's got people on the board that want to see a return on their investment. Right.
- [43:41]
Alan Hahn
Which is why I wonder don't if in the next couple of years. And this is Michael and Jeff Passon were talking about this on the show and it was. It's kind of like, you know, alarming to hear it. You think the Yankees would be in favor of a salary cap?
- [43:57]
Don Le Greca
I think they're leading the charge for it. You heard Hal say about the Dodgers, you know, with the money they're spending. No, I think they would lead because that's more money in their pocket.
- [44:07]
Alan Hahn
Twenty years later, the Yankees want a.
- [44:10]
Don Le Greca
Salary cap because it makes sense, because they aren't the big spenders anymore. Hal's not sitting on $16 billion burning a hole in his pocket. He's got investors. And you know what's going to also happen, guys, is you're going to start to see, hey, if the Yankees are worth $10 billion, maybe I'll sell 49% of it. I get to keep the team. But look at all the money I'll be able to make off of that. Right? That's what the Giants are. You're starting to see the Giants, 49ers all selling a percentage of their franchise because they're worth so much money. And then that investor, is he going to want to see money spent hand over fist, or is he going to want to see a return on his investment?
- [44:52]
Alan Hahn
It's absolutely the way we are headed with the valuations of these franchises going to where they're going. You're never going to be complete owners. You're always going to have minority owners. But now you might sell off a little more because you want to put some cash in your pocket out of it. And, you know, you still at least have controlling interests. And by the way, I'm looking down on the court as we're talking about this real quick, the Knicks are playing the Dallas Mavericks tonight. Mark Cuban had been the principal owner of this team for the better part of 20 years, and he is an excellent owner. He was one of the best owners in the league. He was outspoken, yes, but he was always proactive. He was a guy always willing to invest in his team. He got to a Finals once, he won a championship. Do you think he wishes he maybe kept controlling interest of the team before he sold it? Because he doesn't have Luka Doncic anymore.
- [45:42]
Don Le Greca
Right.
- [45:42]
Alan Hahn
And he is no longer in control. He does have a piece of the team still. He did keep it, but he had no impact on that decision. And he has told everybody that he would have never let that happen if he was still in control, but he's not now.
- [45:57]
Don Le Greca
I don't think. I don't think the Yankees would ever give up the majority ownership of the team. But whoever invested even if it's 10%, they're going to want to have a say. They're going to want to make sure that they get a return on their best. Because what's 10% of $10 billion? Right. Like, that's a lot of money. And I'm going to want to see a return on my investment. And if you're making poor decisions and you're throwing good money after bad, chasing a championship, and it's costing me. We found that out during COVID Right. All these guys that had a piece of the team all of a sudden had to pay the piper when all that money got lost in 2020.
- [46:29]
Alan Hahn
That's right.
- [46:31]
Don Le Greca
So the investors, no matter what the percentage, are going to have a say.
- [46:35]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, I just, again, well, as we're having this conversation, I'm looking out on the car, I'm seeing the Mavericks, and I see Nico Harrison I'm going to go say hello to in a minute. And it's like, that's the first thing I thought. I was like, wow, that's exactly Mark Cuban looking, saying, was it worth it? Giving, like, yeah. So he made a ton of money off his initial investment, but in the end, you're like, could I have waited a year? That definitely might have wanted to wait a year. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter, weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and you, your smart speakers. In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for, like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.