Hour 3: The List & Charlie Ward

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 3: The List & Charlie Ward (June 10, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this action-packed third hour, Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg bring their signature mix of humor, opinion, and deep New York sports insight. The trio opens with a breakdown of the historic NBA Finals ratings, investigates the "Trump effect" on New York sporting events, and dissects the tense relationship between Madison Square Garden and City Hall. The guys then launch into a spirited debate about the most iconic celebrity sports fans (“The List”), and finally welcome Knicks legend Charlie Ward for a thoughtful discussion about NBA Finals physicality and the modern game. The conversation covers the current Knicks, how pivotal moments should be handled, and what makes this Knicks finals run so special.

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1. NBA Finals Ratings & The "Trump Effect" (00:49–08:34)

Key Points:

• Historic NBA Finals Viewership:
  The 2026 Finals have drawn the biggest audiences since 1998, with Game 3 peaking at 26.3 million viewers—an astonishing jump, leading the guys to wonder about the drivers behind this surge.

• Possible Trump Impact:

  • Don questions if Donald Trump’s attendance at Game 3 explains the late peak and extra millions watching.

    “...you wonder how much Trump had to do with the game three. Him being there.” — Don (02:27)

  • Peter and Allen discuss how the spectacle transcends basketball, attracting even non-sports fans eager to see what might happen.

• Madison Square Garden as Cultural Epicenter:

  • MSG’s significance, the Knicks’ 53-year championship drought, and massive New York TV ratings are all dissected.
  • The host debate how a potential Knicks clincher would become a national event and about the “Trump bump” for ratings.

Memorable Quote:

“Game three, by the way, most watched program across all of TV since the Super Bowl.” — Allen (03:36)

Timestamps:

• First finals ratings talk: [01:21]
• Trump’s possible effect: [02:27]
• MSG and NY as factors: [03:25–04:39]

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2. City Hall vs. MSG: Watch Parties & the Knicks Parade (07:05–13:45)

Key Points:

• Dispute Over Crowd Control and Watch Parties:

  • Alan explains tensions between MSG and City Hall, citing conflicting messages about security closures and party permits due to Trump’s presence and huge crowds.
  • MSG’s press release labels Mayor Adams and NYPD officials as “party poopers” for restricting outside watch parties; confusion over who’s to blame.

• Impact on Potential Championship Parade:

  • Debate over whether this strained relationship could impact basic city traditions like a Knicks parade, referencing past controversies with the Giants.

• Media Narrative & Public Perception:

  • Peter notes MSG is unfairly taking heat for ticket prices, the Trump invite, and security restrictions.
  • Safety and logistics take center stage, especially after minor incidents at Bryant Park.

Notable Exchange:

“There has to be a parade...” — Don (11:18)
“...just because MSG talked ish...they'll figure it out for the parade.” — Peter (11:19, paraphrased)

Timestamps:

• Parade and city relations: [06:58–08:34]
• Watch party restrictions: [11:48–13:45]

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3. The List: Most Iconic Celebrity Sports Fans (14:09–19:41)

Key Points:

• Ground Rules:
  Don’s list includes only one celebrity per team/franchise to keep it diverse.

• The Five Iconic Fans:

  • Knicks: Spike Lee — "You don't question his fandom and you don't question his celebrity. He clicks both boxes." — Don (14:59)
  • Lakers: Jack Nicholson
  • Yankees: Billy Crystal
  • Cubs: Bill Murray
  • Mets: Jerry Seinfeld

• Honorable Mentions:

  • Kevin Smith (Devils), Ben Affleck (Red Sox), Will Ferrell (Kings/USC), Mary Hart (Dodgers), Matthew McConaughey (Texas Longhorns).

• Debate and Fan Authenticity:

  • The group humorously debates who’s a “true fan” vs. “fraud” (e.g., Billy Crystal’s Mets hat in City Slickers).
  • No real consensus for Celtics or Miami Heat celebrity fans.

Standout Quote:

“Spike is the biggest celebrity Nick fan in my eye, the most well known.” — Don (14:58)

Timestamps:

• Launch of segment: [14:09]
• Complete list and honorable mentions: [17:16–19:41]

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4. Knicks Physicality & The Wemby Controversy (25:08–36:32)

Key Points:

• Knicks-Spurs NBA Finals:

  • Multiple callers question how the Knicks will respond to a controversial shove by Victor Wembanyama (“Wemby”) on Jalen Brunson.
  • Debate if Wemby’s play was “dirty” or just disrespectful “mush,” with Don, Peter, and Allen dissecting intent and context.
  • Comparison to hockey penalties and the uniqueness of NBA’s physical play.

• Referee Watch & Potential for Retaliation:

  • Allen warns that, with the heated discourse, refs will likely “call anything that looks like you’re going beyond the margins” in the next game.

Standout Quote:

“Anything Wemby does is going to look catastrophic because he’s so big. As bad as it was...I don’t think he intended to injure Jalen Brunson.” — Don (28:40)

Timestamps:

• Wemby-Brunson incident: [25:08–32:46]
• Free throw/foul conspiracies: [32:51–36:32]

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5. Feature Interview: Charlie Ward on Toughness, Tactics, and Wemby (39:03–46:45)

Key Points:

• On Retaliation and Physical Play:

  • Charlie Ward praises current Knicks (Josh Hart, Jose Alvarado) for physicality and expects a message-setting foul early in response to Wemby’s actions.

    "I wouldn't be surprised if someone...takes a foul early on just to send a message." — Charlie Ward (40:34)

• Handling Pressure as a Guard:

  • As a former point guard and Heisman winner, Ward breaks down Jalen Brunson’s Game 3 — attributing his struggles to missed shots and Spurs adjustments, not selfish play.

• Perspective on Victor Wembanyama:

  • High praise for Wemby’s unique impact:

    “He has a chance to be different than all those guys [Olajuwon, Robinson, Duncan] ... He’s a different beast.” — Charlie Ward (45:57)

• Referees & Adjustments:

  • Charlie expects the officials to watch “all the extra stuff” more closely, which could change the tone of the next game.

Memorable Moment:

• Lighthearted closing as Charlie campaigns for a Florida A&M–LIU game at Madison Square Garden and jokes about needing a million dollars for his college program.

  “I need a million for my basketball program at FAMU, so I’ll take it.” — Charlie Ward (38:51)

Timestamps:

• Charlie Ward joins: [38:51]
• On Knicks’ response: [40:34–43:17]
• Comparing Wemby to legends: [45:39–46:28]
• Wrap up: [46:31–46:45]

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Notable Quotes

• “For the NBA, this is like 45% households in New York were watching it...” — Allen (03:44)
• “MSG is a character, and it’s New York.” — Peter (03:25)
• “They’re getting beat up for that [Trump invite]. Then they're saying, oh you shut down the city because you invited Trump. And they're going, no, that wasn't us.” — Peter (11:19)
• “If the Knicks are up 3-1 and a chance to clinch...everybody will be watching that and completely engaged.” — Don (06:31)
• “You cannot watch [a Dodgers game] and not see [Mary Hart].” — Don (24:51)

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Episode Takeaways

• The Knicks’ Finals run is a regional and national event, raising viewership and generating intense civic energy (and drama) around MSG.
• Celebrity sports fans are a cultural phenomenon, and the trio’s playful rankings highlight fandom’s impact beyond the arena.
• NBA officiating and the handling of on-court physicality—especially involving stars like Wemby—continue to spark passionate debate.
• Insights from Charlie Ward rooted the show in Knicks tradition while providing a modern perspective on physicality, leadership, and adapting game strategy.

Transcript

[New York Smalls]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Don Hahn]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Don]

Game time is brought to you by Tullimardu. Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, guys,

[Allen]

it's telly time.

[Peter]

So. So the drops, they play. You don't want to hear the drops. You're supposed to hear.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Don]

Silence. The hell's going on, nick? Spurs game four coverage immediate. Following us on 880 at 7 o' clock with the extended pregame show from Pat O'. Keefe. Mets continue their series. The Cardinals and that'll be on 1050 at 6:30. And the Yankees already beat the Guardians 8 to 4. So they sweep that series. Tullamore. Do the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly.

[Allen]

So we know game one was the most watched since 2018, right? We know game two about the same number. Peaked at 19. Average about 17. Right? You want to hear what game three was?

[Don]

I saw it. So I'd be cheating.

[Allen]

Peter, want to take a guess?

[Peter]

So what's the setup again? Sorry. Go ahead.

[Allen]

Game one and two is both most watched since 2018.

[Peter]

The number for game a, game three number.

[Allen]

I'll just say easily did better than one and two. Easily.

[Charlie Ward]

Easily.

[Peter]

19 million higher.

[Allen]

Bob.

[Peter]

22 million.

[Allen]

23.5.

[Peter]

No way.

[Don]

Now I.

[Allen]

26 three was the peak at 1115.

[Don]

Yeah, the. The. How was it? One hundred and fifty eight higher than last year's game three.

[Allen]

Yeah, it's the most. It's the most watched NBA finals game three since 1998. Now you remember what that. That was Bulls jazz to you and me. The last dance. That's saying something.

[Don]

Now when you look at how consistent games one and two were, you wonder how much Trump had to do with the game three. Him being there.

[Peter]

It peaks. But it peaked so late.

[Allen]

11:15 was the 26th.

[Peter]

You know you're going to see him at the beginning of the game because.

[Allen]

Are you checking in at 11? Because it's ABC and I want to watch the news. Well, no, it's always happen to be on.

[Don]

They always speak.

[Allen]

But you got that bump too.

[Don]

Yeah, I just. The reason I bring that up is because that was the difference. Right. Because what a game one did like a 16.8. Game two did like a 17.5. And then for it to get, you know, 6 million more, you wonder how much of that had to do with, you know, people that aren't basketball fans checking in to see are they going to show Trump? What's Trump going to be doing? Is there going to be something that's going to happen? But the numbers have been astronomical to begin with. So I'm not trying to. Also, it's MSG down.

[Peter]

You can't take away. MSG is a character and it's New

[Allen]

York Knicks are up to. Oh, you know, they could have been all up. Big New York number.

[Peter]

I'm not taking anything away from the Trump factor. I would say it's. I'd say it's a piece of it.

[Allen]

I think Don's onto something.

[Peter]

It's a lot. It's a lot.

[Allen]

Because game three, by the way, most watched program across all of TV since the Super Bowl.

[Don]

Yeah.

[Allen]

Huh?

[Don]

Yeah. For the NBA, this is like 45% households in New York were watching it. But what's interesting though, 45% of you would think the number might be compromised by all the watch parties in New York.

[Peter]

Right.

[Don]

They had one in Central Park, Bryant park, like, so you just. I just wonder. I think without it, it might still hit, but being that astronomical, I guess we'll find out tonight. What's tonight's number? Now it's not gonna be any more competitive than, you know, if it was 1 1, but it was 2. Oh, now it's 2 1. So the numbers might be good because now it's a little more competitive. And how will the Knicks will bounce back and all that? Because you're looking at the potential that if this series goes back to San Antonio, even a two guys, we'd be looking at numbers that could be in the 25 range. Right. With the eyeballs of watching a competitive series involving the Knicks trying to slay the dragon and the Wemby situation and all. But if the number ends up going back down to similar to 1 2, then I would think that was probably the Trump effect.

[Allen]

Yeah. I'm thinking also that if this if for the Knicks, a clinching game has got to probably set A record.

[Don]

Oh, what else? That'll get people the New York number, but it'll just get even people that don't care about basketball. Hey, somebody's going to win something for the first time in 53 years. Like, like, that was the same with the Cubs, right? Like, yep. When the Cubs, that game, said it was a game seven. Everybody but you had a team that hadn't won since 1948 against a team that hadn't won since 1908. I'm sure a lot of people are like, I want to see what this looks. You know, I just think the numbers are going to grow and grow. It's a competitive series. It's fun. We've got subplots. Now, this Wemby thing, you know, it's

[Peter]

funny, too, the Knicks so much. If the Knicks win tonight, they have a clinching game on Saturday at 8:38, 45 on a Saturday, same night as the UFC's big White House card, which, from a timing standpoint, I can't imagine.

[Don]

But those things don't start till, like, after 11, right? I mean, at least the main event ones.

[Peter]

No, the main event wouldn't. But it's that whole card. There's a huge name in every single fight, and it's at the White House with Trump there all night. If the Knicks were to win the series on Saturday night, that TV and Celebration on ABC is going a long time. You got an extra 45 minutes of TV.

[Don]

That's the thing.

[Peter]

Maybe an hour.

[Don]

Like, we'll see. Like, Trump's a Nick fan, so not

[Peter]

as big as he is a Trump fan. And he's hosting the event.

[Don]

I know, but that's gonna be.

[Allen]

He wants to win.

[Don]

They win a championship, and then he's got a UFC fight in his front yard.

[Allen]

He wants to win the night. You wonder if he's watching the game or is he watching the UF fight

[Peter]

and will he tell them? Hey, wait, like, would he even be like, I don't care if people fall asleep. Wait, you got to let the basketball finish. Because, I mean, depending on what's happening in that game. Because, guys, on a Saturday night with the Knicks having a clinching game, which is possible, that could be an astronomical number. Although, I don't know. Weeknights seem to do better in some ways, too.

[Don]

I don't know. Well, Saturday nights, Friday nights are not what they used to be. Usually there isn't as large an audience. But I think when you're talking about if the Knicks are up three, one and a chance to climb clinch as much as it would be disappointing the Knick fans that it would be on the road, I think, you know, listen, everybody will be watching that and completely engaged. I guess I'm just. I'm just assuming that if that were to happen and they were to clinch on a Saturday, the parade would be Monday.

[Allen]

You would think.

[Don]

Although.

[Allen]

Although right now relationship. The relations between the Nick organization and the city of New York not exactly at a great.

[Don]

Dude, I don't care how bad it is if you don't have a parade.

[Allen]

Oh no, they're gonna have a. I mean, come on, you have a parade.

[Peter]

What's the real issue?

[Allen]

What are they saw the statements that were released yesterday.

[Peter]

Yeah. MSG was kind of like they saying

[Allen]

that we, we never like, like, remember the whole argument about game three and the layers of the shutdown around the arena. The Knicks kept saying, this has nothing to do with the President. This is what, this is what the NYPD and the city wants. And the city saying, no, it's because the President's here. Okay, then everything's going to go back to normal for game four. So the Knicks announced the watch party on 33rd Street. The whole thing was going to happen. Then yesterday announced, oh no, no, they're going to do the. The NYPD said, we're going to do the same measures. We're going to close the whole area once again to control the crowds. And that's when the Knicks said, see, this is. This is not what we wanted. And this is why what we said for Game 3, we didn't ask for this. The Secret Service didn't ask for it. It's what the city wanted to do. So it's been a back and forth. Right now he actually in a. The headline in the press release from the Garden called the mayor and, And Jessica Tish.

[Peter]

Right.

[Allen]

Yeah. A party pooper. Party poops.

[Peter]

Yeah. Here's my question though. That's a, That's a tough, very weird headline. But here's the.

[Allen]

So there's a lot of back and forth happening right now between the two. It could make for some awkward moments if there is a parade to be had and the mayor's up there at City hall and.

[Peter]

But what's the lot but like.

[Allen]

But it's. It's not. It's very uncomfortable relationship right now.

[Peter]

Again, what would the logic be, not

[Allen]

about the police, but what would the

[Peter]

logic of Mamdani and Tish be to do this? That would be crowd control.

[Allen]

Because Friday night. But I told you Friday night, game two, it was, it was not Even a home game. The arena was sold out, filled for a watch party. There was also a watch party outside. There was a lot going on. And when that game ended, it was overwhelming from 30 33rd street to 31st Street. Overwhelming. Well, and here's lots of people gathered in front of the building before the game ended, watching it on, on iPads and, and laptop.

[Peter]

Think about this. If you're Mom Donnie, the reputation for Mom Donnie coming in, whether it's based on any fact, reputation, whatever was lawlessness, isn't caring about the police. Safety in the city is going to be out of control. Everything's going to be chaos. Mom Donnie sees and Tish and the police see there is potential for major problems around this. So we have to do things that are kind of no fun club to try to make it better. And now you turn around and you're like, oh, well, look at this guy. Doesn't want us to have a good time if it goes bad. And the good time looks like a worse version of what we saw two nights ago. Who do you think they're blaming? Mom Donnie has no control of the city. So that's a tough spot. I really, I, as I said the other day, I felt for the police. I thought they did a really good job by and large.

[Allen]

It seemed again, they were excellent the other night.

[Peter]

So you got it. They. The fact that they got through that night with only 21 arrests and I didn't hear of any severe injuries, thank God. You kind of got to say whatever worked for them that night, you probably got to try to run it back and run the same play again. You can't risk anything just because you want to have a fun. There are plenty of places to watch the game.

[Don]

Right. But back to what Allen suggested, that if there is a rift between MSG and the city, that could disrupt the possible parade. No, that can't stand because I remember in 86, I guess it was January of 87 when Ed Koch says, we're not having a parade for a foreign team because the Giants were playing in New Jersey at the time. It was, it was bad. It was bad for Koch. It looked bad to not have the New York Giants.

[Peter]

What did they do?

[Don]

The Giants had one in Munaki that went into Giants Stadium. He didn't have a parade for them.

[Peter]

Was it a way of punishing the Giants?

[Don]

No, for leaving and going to New Jersey. But it still looked really bad that a New York team, maybe one of the most popular teams, doesn't have a parade. Now Dinkins gave them a parade in 90. So. And obviously, you know, they had the parades in 07 and in 2011, so it hasn't been an issue. There has to be a nick, but

[Peter]

there will be a parade.

[Don]

There has to be a parade because

[Peter]

just because MSG talked ish, MSG didn't like, like it. MSG is already getting a lot of unfair criticism. They're getting the ticket price criticism, which is not an MSG thing.

[Charlie Ward]

Right.

[Peter]

So they're getting beat up for that. Right. Let's be honest. A lot of people were very critical of the Trump invite, so they're getting beat up for that. Then they're saying, oh, you shut down the city because you invited Trump. And they're going, no, that wasn't us. So I can see now how there's a little bit of like a chip on their shoulder, like, hey, they're the ones doing this, but they'll figure it out for the parade.

[Allen]

And then there's. If there's a parade and then there's the watch party thing, which there was supposed to be one tonight right outside on the Plaza 33, that we've, we've done shows there. And they, they canceled it earlier today and they put out a statement and they basically said that the, the mayor would only allow it to be up to a thousand. And we know there was way more than a thousand people there. I mean, you're Talking about almost 5,000 people were filling out a little area. And so they, they were not allowing that. And the mayor's claiming, hey, we allowed between 500 to 999 people. We allowed that and they decided to cancel it. And the next statement is there's a lot of people that want to see the game. We wish everybody could see it live, but they can't. So be outside the building to have a watch party. These have been fun. We wanted to do that. He was limiting it to a thousand people, and that didn't make sense. I also think the weather has a bit to do with it as well.

[Peter]

They're expecting potential, but these are just

[Allen]

constant press releases being sent out back and forth. Mamdani is tweeting responses, but the press release yesterday really said a lot because there was, there was a dispute about that extra layer of security that was put in and shutting down 7th Avenue and the perimeter of the Garden. And it frustrated a lot of people. And the Garden kept saying, this was not what we wanted. This is what the city wanted. And the fact that they're doing an end game four without the president. There is the Garden Saying, see, told you this is what they want to do. And I think what doesn't work for the Garden is the fact that there were. There was a bad incidence outside at Bryant park on Monday night. It went all over social media and it's giving the city a bad reputation because of course, people.

[Peter]

And that affects the city much more than it does msg.

[Allen]

People outside the city think, oh, that's how New Yorkers act. And so, you know, I imagine that's probably what they're thinking is we've got to crowd control as best we can around that building and especially Penn Station.

[Don]

Now, as you can tell, we did not see from Charlie Ward yet. Hopefully he's going to be in a little bit. Obviously we're with you till 7 o'.

[Allen]

Clock.

[Don]

So there's still time. Boy, it's getting dark outside. Looks like we're on the verge of hope. Not possibly a thunderstorm. Well, I'm sure it'll be all out of here by 7:00, clock if it's about to start now, so. So since Charlie may be coming in, you want to get a full segment with him. Do you want to do the list now?

[Peter]

Oh, I would love to.

[Allen]

I like it.

[Peter]

I would love it.

[Don]

All right. The list is now brought to you by Allure Group as we take a look at my list, which I had written down on a napkin when we were having lunch that Peter now used to clean up cake. Oh, I, I have to. I'm so sorry, I have to like, like look through.

[Peter]

Oh, no.

[Don]

So I again, I'm not going to go one through five because it's all in the eye of the beholder and I wanted to keep it to one per team if that's fair. Okay. Because look, the Knicks have an amazing amount. So I came up with the best, the most famous Knick. And I decided by the fandom how long he's been there and his significance. I've got Spike Lee on the list

[Allen]

of number one, but he said not in any order.

[Don]

Not in any order. But, but listen, but I think Spike is the biggest celebrity Nick fan in

[Allen]

my eye, the most well known.

[Don]

So of all the ones that are there, that's the one. You don't question his fandom and you don't question his celebrity. He clicks both boxes. I've got him on the list now.

[Peter]

Do you want us to throw other ones in there?

[Don]

Yeah, sure, go ahead.

[Peter]

You're getting Spike out of the way. I think at this point you're throwing Stiller in there, Stillers in there.

[Don]

Well, I told you I'm not repeating. I'm not repeating teams. So this is celebr. Celebrity fans of all over. Not even of any.

[Allen]

Well, I got another obvious one. Not sure if you are. Well, you should know this. Jack. Jack Nicholson.

[Don]

Jack Nicholson is on there representing the Los Angeles Lakers. He was there forever.

[Allen]

Denzel could be there too.

[Don]

Denzel. The Lakers are like the Knicks, right? They've got a huge celebrity role. Jack is the first one you, when you think of celebrity fan, maybe even more than Spike, you think of Jack.

[Peter]

It's, it's those two. They're 1 and 1A either direction. Spike Lee and Jack Nicholson.

[Don]

So no problem so far.

[Peter]

No. How about I'm going to throw a rare one. You're going to say no, but it's a fun one. Penny Marshall.

[Don]

God bless. I don't know what team you're even talking about.

[Peter]

That's disappointing with Dodgers. No.

[Don]

Who Flippers.

[Allen]

I thought Billy Crystal was Clippers.

[Peter]

Billy Crystal is also Clippers.

[Allen]

Billy Crystal, a bit of a fraud.

[Peter]

Knicks fan as well, but God bless.

[Allen]

Yeah, but he, he really became a clipper. Is Billy Crystal on your list?

[Don]

I have Billy on the list for Yankees.

[Allen]

Oh, yeah.

[Don]

Okay, now I know I called him a fraud for wearing the Met hat and City Slickers. But then he explained to me that was the than for the money that they donated for the homeless. The comic relief comic. Comic relief. So I gave him a pass. But you know, he said he's taking it at bat in a spring training game. He made the movie 61. We know. How big.

[Peter]

Who else do you think about for the Yankees though? Because that's, that's a big one.

[Don]

Well, there's a bunch of them. Chaz Palminteri would have to be up there. I think Billy's bigger. No offense to Chad.

[Peter]

Well, he's so much bigger celebrity.

[Don]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Peter]

Oh, I think he's bigger.

[Don]

Yeah. No, I'm just trying.

[Peter]

No, no, you're being. No, you're being really Don.

[Caller Mario]

Don.

[Peter]

I'm sorry. No, Don. I'm a bad guy. You' right.

[Allen]

I love Chad.

[Peter]

I know. We love Chaz. I'm just saying Billy's Billy. You know what I mean?

[Don]

I know. And I love Billy.

[Peter]

All right, so that's, that's, we got Billy. Yeah, we got Spike. We got Jack.

[Don]

Yes.

[Allen]

Bill Murray.

[Don]

And Bill Murray. Great pull. Chicago Cubs.

[Peter]

That's a beautiful.

[Don]

Oh, he is a monster Cub fan.

[Caller Steve]

All right.

[Allen]

All right. Good.

[Don]

Been forever and then I, I, I got an honorable mention. I know. Who should be in that. In this list. He's. It's also. Also local.

[Peter]

A local.

[Don]

You'll kick yourself. Can I give you the team?

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don]

Mets, Seinfeld, Jerry Seinfeld. Got that there. So the five that I have, again, not necessarily in any order. Jack Nicholson with the Lakers, Billy Crystal with the Yankees, Spike with the Knicks, Bill Murray with the Cubs, and Jerry Seinfeld with the Mets. Honorable mention would be Kevin Smith with the Devils. But you're not taking any of the five that I have brought out there. And it made it again. I pigeonholed myself. I didn't want to repeat teams because there's monster fans of the Knicks.

[Peter]

And also I do want to say, with great respect to you and your list, I am sure we are forgetting some monster celebrities who in their local market, everybody knows I'm going through the Celtics right now.

[Allen]

And I'm no.

[Peter]

Celtics suck.

[Allen]

They don't have like, Donnie Wahlberg, another.

[Don]

Donnie Wahlberg is a. Is not a good enough celebrity.

[Allen]

Well, not big enough.

[Peter]

No.

[Don]

But I don't think.

[Peter]

Trust me, I follow the Celtics. Okay. You know the celebrities that they announced every night, when I see them post, like, ooh, celeb row.

[Allen]

I'm like this Miami Heat.

[Don]

Ben. Ben Affleck with the Red Sox. It's an honorable mention.

[Allen]

That's pretty good.

[Don]

That's pretty good. Will Ferrell for either USC or the Los Angeles Kings. He's got a lot of kicks.

[Peter]

I might.

[Allen]

He does a lot with the King.

[Peter]

I would actually put. I might. I think he is a more legit for both than Seinfeld is. Not that Seinfeld's not legit, but I think Will Ferrell's a more night in, night out. He calls games, games with the kid. Like, he's done so many different things.

[Don]

Yeah, he has. But I like.

[Peter]

Seinfeld's big. He pops up once, you know, once a year, whatever it is. A couple times here and there. I don't. I don't consider him like a die hard in that way.

[Don]

I do. I mean, he's put the Mets in a lot of Seinfeld episodes. So, you know, true. It's a long time. He's.

[Peter]

When you include him and when you think about Keith and all that stuff, it's.

[Don]

It's interesting, right? Like, I, I Will Ferrell, I mean, I know him more as a Kings fan, but doing my research, he's also a big USC fan, grew up in Los Angeles, but I just don't know if people know that. Like, everybody knows Jerry is A Mets fan. Like if you went up to anybody, what team does Will Ferrell root for? I don't know if kings are.

[Peter]

But that's what makes for example, Jerry, you know, down on that list significantly from Spike and Jack. They're different. Like they, they literally belong in their own category of where you associate when people think if you were to ask a tell me some things about the New York Knicks, they might get to Spike Lee in the first 10 seconds.

[Don]

But like there's things like you remember Steve Summers? Like Jerry Seinfeld used to call Steve Summers up to talk. Jerry doesn't do a lot of me. He's calling up the local night guy on the fan. Like maybe, maybe Will Ferrell does that in Los Angeles. I don't know.

[Allen]

But.

[Don]

So you're good with my list?

[Allen]

I like it.

[Don]

All right.

[Allen]

I can't think of anybody else that's

[Don]

missing, but obviously social media will. That was the list brought to you by Allure Group. The Allure where care meets compassion. We've got a search party out for Charlie Ward. I'm not concerned, but God, it looks like it's going to storm, but what do you.

[Allen]

We're supposed to not get rain until 8, 8, 8 and 9pm should be

[Don]

when you know what it is. We've had some gorgeous days.

[Allen]

We were spoiled.

[Don]

You know, we did have that storm on Saturday night, but we still had a really great day and it cleared up nice on Tuesday. It was gorgeous, you know. So if we get a, a couple of tough days, it doesn't matter.

[Allen]

We got some rain coming though. The next couple of days it's all about.

[Don]

And it's. And when it not raining, it's gonna be like a thousand degrees outside.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Don]

All right. 1-800-919-3776 we're working some call. Charlie Ward's supposed to join us. Some other surprises as well. We'll try to wedge in ENN at some point. Then at 7 o' clock it's Pat O'. Keefe, Nick Pregame Game 4 Spurs and the Knicks.

[Allen]

Can I get a go?

[Don]

Knicks NBA Finals.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Don]

Here on espn.

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[Don Hahn]

thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand when Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don]

All right, 1-800-919-3776 obviously is the number to call. We've got a couple of suggestions. I thought about this, but I just don't know if it resonates with everybody, especially here in New York with the list. Matthew McConaughey and the Texas Longhorns.

[Allen]

Yeah, he's actually on the sidelines with them, but I thought you were doing

[Don]

pro sports and I've been thrown out that the UFC is on Sunday and the Knicks would play on Saturday. Peter no wait. I've had two people tweet saying the UFC is on Sunday night.

[Caller Steve]

Really?

[Don]

Don't ask me. I again, I would.

[Allen]

If it was in his backyard, he wouldn't watch it. Turn the hose on him.

[Don]

Kate Upton and a million dollars. I'm like, I'm good.

[Allen]

No, I don't know about that.

[Don]

I'll take telling you I can do.

[Peter]

Yeah, you're right. It is Sunday. I have. That is really interesting. They have. I don't remember them ever running a big show on a Sunday. So they obviously thought about that now. And I wonder if that means also it'll be an earlier card than usual. You can't really have your main event.

[Don]

No, no. Not unless Monday's a holiday and it's not. Christopher's got a good one. You guys might not resident, but I've seen this Mary Hart with the Dodgers.

[Allen]

She's at every Dodger game right behind home plate.

[Don]

You cannot watch him and not see her.

[Allen]

And she's literally behind home plate. So you see every.

[Don]

I'm not taking anybody else out that I have here, but those are some good suggestions.

[Allen]

Very good.

[Don]

1-800-919-3776. Let's get back to the busy phones. Talk to Steve in California. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Steve?

[Caller Steve]

Good day, guys.

[Caller Mario]

Always a pleasure to speak with you. I wanted to address how the Knicks are going to approach one beyond at the end and why I didn't think you saw them respond in game three. They have been looking as if this is all part of the plan. They didn't want to go to that extreme. And Peter, I'm calling you out because a blow to the head like that can injure somebody. You said there's no intent. What bothered me most about that was that he did it knowing it was a foul and he did it anyway and laughed about it. He didn't care if he got called for a foul. He was willing to do that and that makes him playing outside of the rules. And to me, that's a dirty player. I played catcher for many years. There are ways to get back. And I believe that the Knicks will not do dirty plays against him. But I believe they'll be leaning on on him all game. They will be putting a body on him, they will be hitting him and they will be making sure that he never takes a shot like that at their captain again.

[Don]

Yeah, I'm with you, Steve, but I hope that's. I will say this, Steve, and these guys can disagree with me if they. If they want to. A flagrant 2 would be intent to injure. I don't think he intended to injure Jalen Brunson. That's all I was trying to play. Was it a hard foul? Was it a flagrant?

[Peter]

Guys, if I. Let's take this to the street. Let's leave the basketball game. Don and I get into it, somehow we boil over. It's been nearly a decade coming and I feel like risking my life.

[Don]

It sounds like there's some truth to this, but go ahead.

[Peter]

I decide I want to start risking my life, and I'm going to try to fight this bear of a man named Don McGregor. If we started getting into it and I gave Donna the mush that he did, and Don's response was. Was beating me to a pulp, you would say. I don't know if the punishment fit the crime.

[Don]

I think Don overreacted.

[Peter]

Yeah. The mush is not cool. Don should have shoved him back, thrown him to the ground. The point is, is it okay to mush someone like that?

[Caller Mario]

No.

[Peter]

Is it the same as boarding someone in a hockey game or really even checking someone on a screen where your elbow hits them in the face? I don't see it as that.

[Allen]

The mush. The mush is you're sunning him.

[Peter]

It's disrespect.

[Allen]

Disrespect.

[Peter]

It's disrespect more than deed.

[Allen]

The mush is what leads to. To. You're about to ask, right? That's.

[Don Hahn]

Ask that.

[Allen]

That. You're literally doing that. Cuz you're saying, I know you can't do anything about it.

[Peter]

It's a preamble. And he laughed in his face about it. That's the painful part. But I.

[Don]

It's disrespectful.

[Peter]

I disagree with the caller. There was no. Yeah, I suppose he could have injured his neck.

[Don]

He was not. There was no.

[Allen]

He was trying to. He was trying to embarrass him. He wasn't trying to hurt him.

[Peter]

No. And guess what?

[Caller Mario]

He.

[Peter]

He sort of succeeded in the can.

[Don]

Can I hurt someone and still not have an intent to injury?

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Don]

Because accidents happen. If Brunson had slipped, hit his head. Yeah, he hit his head because he was pushed by. But the intent. There was no intent to injury.

[Peter]

No, no.

[Don]

If I slash you in the head in hockey, my intent is to hurt you. If I cross check you in the mouth, my intent is to knock teeth out. To hurt you. I will say my face wash you. Which is kind of. Now, again, he's a foot and a half taller, so everything looks egregious. Right. Like somebody explained to me Like I would say Marco in relation to my size. Maybe if he needed to be a little bit taller. But if I saw somebody throw a kid down, like if a father was a foot and a half taller than his son and pushed his son down like that, you'd be like, call the police.

[Peter]

This is ridiculous.

[Don]

Now, obviously Brunson's a grown man, but how often do you see that kind of discrepancy in size? Anything Wemby does is going to look catastrophic because he's so big. As bad as it was, and I think it was handled poorly by the NBA. And I can understand Aidan Wemby because he laughed after he did it.

[Peter]

There's no way you can convince me intended injury. Right, Alan? Right. In terms of. No, for sure. In terms of the major hockey penalties, by the way. I have such different feelings on each one. Like boarding, for example, I always think is questionable because, you know, where they are on the ice affects the way that I see the level of intent. Right. Because if you're up, if you're up close to the boards and you shove someone in the back, you knew they were going to hit the boards. They weren't going to fall face first. The one that, excuse me, that blows my mind is the, the slash, like the outright random just slash on someone's leg where, you know, there's no other way you could possibly see it because the high stick that causes blood. Don, I understand why it's a major, but there are times when you can see it and go, I don't think they meant to get their, their stick. It's just, it's haphazard. But the slash always blows my mind.

[Don]

And you guys might disagree also, like, there's physicality to basketball, but I wouldn't call it, categorize it as a physical sport. Right. Hockey is a physical sport. You're supposed to check somebody, take the puck away from them physically. Football is a physical sport. You're supposed to tackle somebody. Baseball can be physical at times, throw in some side, different things, play at the plate, basketball, elbows. But what Wemby did was that's not a basketball. And that is why there's nothing in basketball that says that's okay to do.

[Peter]

But was it Al, who did I hear talk. Someone just. I just heard someone talking about the other day. There are people who really felt like the beginning of this series was a

[Don]

bridge too far because you were feeding off of what Legler said, that this is actually, actually two physical.

[Peter]

Oh, yeah, it was legs. Yeah, that. That the physicality is legler and.

[Allen]

And RJ were both.

[Peter]

It doesn't match where the game is right now.

[Allen]

Yeah, but both were feeling like, we like physicality. We like letting them play. But there's also a point where you're like, yeah, but this is too much. And that was. That tone was set in game one and it continued in game two. And then it went to another level in game four.

[Don]

That's where the officials are now.

[Allen]

That's why four to nine is something to watch. Because why? Why Fans want their pound of flesh and want the Knicks to retaliate. Tonight might not be the night because tonight might be the night where they're watching everything and they're going to call. Not everything, but they're going to call anything that looks like you're going beyond the margins.

[Don]

Let's go to Jose in Connecticut. You're on. Don Han in Rosenberg.

[Caller Steve]

Hey, what's up, my guys? Listen, I just want to dispel a few narratives really quick. Number one, love Monica, but the Knicks also get better as the series goes on. Not just the Spurs. We go from close games to ending up blowing teams out so they make adjustments and get better, too. So I am confident of that. The whole thing about Wemby, Peter, I love you, man, but if you add up all the evidence, the elbow to Nasrid, the having his goons do a hit out on the OKC Alvarado, that play was even worse than Brunson.

[Allen]

That was.

[Charlie Ward]

Yeah.

[Allen]

Was that game one or game two when he. He chucked him on a box out attempt? Yeah, he's dirty.

[Caller Steve]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's dirty, man. It's okay to call it out.

[Peter]

Listen, I hear what you're saying. The evidence that is mounting is that. But in the grand scheme of things, it's a small sample size. And, and even as don't said, maybe if they handle this the right way, they can sort of curb the behavior and he ends up landing at being a physical and aggressive player, but not a dirty player. I just think the jury to me still has to be out.

[Don]

I understand. It's. It's a fine line. It's a conversation. Oh, no.

[Peter]

It's a conversation.

[Don]

I want to see where this goes.

[Allen]

You know, it's a conversation. When the league's having the conversation. If they're ha. If they're talking about it, we should be talking about it.

[Don]

About it. Let's go to Mario in Jersey City. You're on. Don Han and Roseberg.

[Caller Mario]

How's it going, guys? Just wanted to point out a stat. First of all, this stat is dedicated to someone in attendance, Lou. But basically the one stat that I don't hear anybody mentioning, I get, you know, you can look at the refs, how they called this house, but the refs pretty much called it even. It was 21 to 23, three fouls called on each team. Not one person. I heard kind of mention that, mention that stat.

[Allen]

It's the free throw attempts. Mario, Mario. It's a free throw attempts. That's what I know how the fouls work. What Mike Brown was bringing up was the second half free throw attempt differential, which was by the way, one shy of the largest differential in NBA finals history. So that's what they're pointing to is the foul. It's a free throw attempts when the fouls are called. So Knicks got into bonus early because of early quick fouls that are called like, like Mikhail Bridges was called for some early fouls in the first quarter. Took him out of the game completely. He couldn't be aggressive defensively anymore. He was very impactful defensively in the first two games and it took him out because there was quick fouls called. Knicks ended up in the bonus early. The spurs get to the bonus later in the quarter like everybody does because they're a very physical team. But the, so the foul differential isn't the story. The story is how quick the early fouls are called to put a team in a bonus.

[Don]

Yeah, that's the difference.

[Allen]

And that's why it was 2048. That's why Mike Brown decided to make it a thing at the podium.

[Don]

Conspiracy theories, I think exist way more in the NBA than I think they do in other sports. Sports because of the way the fouls can be and they result automatically in points. If you want to believe in conspiracy theories and you want to believe in. It was in everybody's best interest that the spurs won game three. I could buy into that. Listen, if this is 3, 0, great for new York, great for the Knicks. It affects the ratings. It affects, you know, you got, you got a ratings machine here. Yeah, they like to go this as long as possible.

[Caller Mario]

Now.

[Don]

I don't think they're going to mess with games moving forward. I don't think anybody outside of New York wanted to see a sweep. It's in their best interest. Free when, if you want to come up with a conspiracy theory, who benefits? What's the purpose? What's the motivation behind it? Motivation is going to be. It was in the NBA's. It was in everybody's best interest that the spurs won that game. So you see a discrepancy like that, it's going to fuel that fire that something was untoward. They're not suspending Wemby.

[Peter]

I get that.

[Don]

That happens everywhere. Yeah. You're not suspending, you know, Tom Brady from a Super Bowl. You know, I'm not going to put him at the level of Tom Brady. You, the league doesn't want to affect the outcome unless it's egregious. Like what Draymond.

[Allen]

But also, what does. First of all, they weren't going to suspend him for that. But if, if they gave him a flagrant one, how does it help? The Knicks doesn't make up for anything. It doesn't.

[Don]

But a flagrant too, which I think would have been undeserved. But if they did that now you're affecting the series right now, Flagrant two

[Allen]

would have been, that would have been egregious. But the point I'm, I'm making is in the league offices, their thinking was it does nothing. And all it does is bring negative attention to a star player that they're hoping is going to become the face of the league. So while it doesn't, the Knicks aren't getting free throws, they're not getting any benefit from it. To, to go back and say, yeah, you know, we missed it, but hey, we're going to dock him one more point of a flagrant. We're going to call it a flagrant. That does nothing. So instead what you do is you have have a conversation with him like enough of that and we're watching you and be a little more diligent with him when it comes to behind the play.

[Don]

I want to push back a little bit on that when we come back or Your calls are 1-800-919-3776. We got a lot going on here. Don on a Roseburg. Live from Stout, 35th between 7th and 8th Avenue. Take it at 7:00'.

[Allen]

Clock.

[Buster Olney]

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[Peter]

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter]

You look like a million bucks.

[Don]

You do.

[Charlie Ward]

Well I need a million my basketball program at famu so I'll take it.

[Allen]

Lard A and M so I was just talking with Charlie about how a lot of Knicks alum are coaching.

[Charlie Ward]

Coaching.

[Allen]

He and Rod Strickland. Rod Strickland had of course my alma mater liu and Charlie now at Florida A M and it's like how do we get a game between these two schools at Madison Square Garden? We got to make that happen because you know that it's it's a proud alumni as you know. But to see you know some of you guys out there coaching is special and you you will generate a lot of interest from Nick fans who will just be interested in what you're doing and support your team. So it would be great if the Garden could one day make something like that happen. I'm sure you would love that.

[Charlie Ward]

Oh 100 we I've been dropping seeds to try to make it happen to Nick alums trying to get to where he went last year which was the tournament and but just to be able to to compete against a team that that very similar to us in a lot of ways, but I'm trying. I'll do my part.

[Peter]

Now, we've spent a lot of time talking, excuse me today, about physicality, obviously, what happened with Wemby. So I thought no one better to talk to because, you know, I'll tell you, I love this Nick team that they're. They really are competitive a million ways. They don't have a ton of Charlie Wards in terms of people who are willing to really scrap when you have to and get physical. And your. Your team was obviously filled with that. If you were a teammate of Jalen Brunson, what is your approach going into tonight's game with that level of physicality that happened to your captain in game three?

[Charlie Ward]

Well, I mean, they do have guys on the team that have that same type of mindset. One is Josh Hart and the other one is Jose, Jose Alvarado. And. And so you've seen the first two games, they had the physicality where Wemby was being stopped every time he was rolling to the basket, which was part of the game plan. And I do think you'll start. You'll start to see that more even tonight. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone, I don't know who that someone is, takes a foul early on just to set up, send a message to him because of what transpired in the first two games. Just go back. And so. So it's just. It'll be interesting to see who. Who does that. I don't know who that person will be, but I'm sure you'll start to see a lot more physicality, legal physicality, where you can take files and not worry about, you know, the ramifications.

[Don]

If you were on the court when Brunson was shoved that way, how do you think you would have responded?

[Charlie Ward]

Well, first off, I. I play a certain way, so regardless if it was going to be that type of way anyway, just because that's just where you play the game. But when you're, quote, unquote, best practice players, especially guards, most times, you're the one that's being taken care of. I had guys like Charles Oakley, you know, kind of fight my battles a lot of times when I was playing and someone decided they want to pick on me, being a smaller guy. You normally have somebody like that Mace.

[Peter]

You had a few.

[Charlie Ward]

Yes. So it just depends on who it is, is. And like I said, it doesn't have to be after you get shoved. It can be within just the framework of playing the game and playing it the right way and playing hard there to Be there will some be some physicality in those types of things. So it'll be interesting to see how, how they respond tonight because the referees are definitely going to be interested a little bit more now that there's been a lot of tension paid to it. And he's gotten away with quite a few, not just this series, but in, in the past series of, you know, playing a certain way and not getting the consequences that most people would get. So it'd be interesting to see how they handle the physicality tonight and moving forward. Not just tonight, but just moving forward in general.

[Allen]

You know, the officials will be watching for all the extra stuff too, because it became such a thing thing over the off day. Charlie, as a guy who was a point guard, a guy who was a quarterback in college as well, Heisman winning, by the way, to point out to everybody when you watch Jalen Brunson and you see, you know, what he's about. But you see what the spurs do. And there are people after that game, game three, that said Brunson was playing hero ball. Brunson, you know, wasn't passing, he was hogging the ball and all that, that stuff. What did you see that happened there, what the spurs were doing and what he ended up doing because of it?

[Charlie Ward]

Well, he, first off, he missed a lot of shots that he normally make, whether they were easy shots that he normally make, he just missed them early on, and you could say he was

[Allen]

on the ball more.

[Charlie Ward]

However, the thing that doomed them was they turned the basketball over so we could talk about Brunson hogging the ball or not passing or whatever the case may be. I mean, they turned it over. So which means they didn't get chances at the basket. And then the spurs made plays when they needed them. You know, that was the other big key. They stepped up and made plays when they need them, especially down the stretch. So at the end of the day, they'll this series and every series about adjustments from game to game and every team makes them. And then you have to adjust to what they adjusted to. You know, they crowded the space a little bit more for everyone. And, you know, they started sending double teams on drives with Wimby. And so now, you know, and they did a better job of recovering, you know, off of those double teams. So it'd be interesting to see what the Knicks do tonight to combat that. And then, of course, it comes back down to who makes shots, who make shots and make the necessary plays needed. Because at the end of the day, both teams are quality teams that's the reason why they're in the NBA Finals. And it does hurt that you're not winning the free throw battle. I mean, we talk about that. That's consistent. If you win the free throw battle and you make your free throws, it does help help you in that, in that sense.

[Peter]

The, the, your Knicks and the other Knicks, when you add it all up, the 90s Knicks dealt with Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Tim Duncan. If he stays healthy, will Wemby be better than all of of those guys

[Charlie Ward]

in his own way? Yes. He has a chance to be different than all those guys. And being his size and not just a post player but a wing type player can handle the ball the way he blocks shots. So he's, he's different. He's a different beast.

[Peter]

He really is.

[Charlie Ward]

You know, those guys that you mentioned were very, very different. Good. And they were different in their way and we is a different type of player but has the same effect on the game.

[Don]

Charlie, you know, you got to run. Enjoy the game tonight. Thanks for giving us a couple of minutes.

[Charlie Ward]

Well, I appreciate you guys having me and Go New York, Go New York.

[Peter]

We'd love to have you back to talk more about the college program.

[Allen]

And yeah, no question we're going to try to make this game at the Garden happen for sure. But thanks so much. Great to have you, Charlie.

[Charlie Ward]

Thank you guys for having me.

[Don]

That's Charlie Ward. Another hour to go down on a Rosenberg ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Peter]

I don't want to know how the

[Allen]

sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Carrington College Announcer]

Your next chapter in health care starts at Carrington College's School of Nursing in Portland. Join us for our open house on Tuesday, January 13th from 4 to 7pm you'll tour our campus, see live demos, meet instructors and learn about our Associate degree in Nursing program that prepares you to become a registered nurse. Take the first step toward your nursing career. Save your spot now at Carrington Edu Events. For information on program outcomes, visit Carrington Edu Sci.