← Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
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- [00:02]
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- [00:31]
Alan Hahn
This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [00:35]
Peter Rosenberg
That sounds like heaven to me.
- [00:36]
Alan Hahn
Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers. All right, it's the big five o' clock hour. We go with Alan Hahn. With Alan Hahn, that's me. Of course. With Don Leggraeck and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan. Han. See, I, I, I've. It's lack of sleep. I don't even know who I am. What day is it? I know who's coming up, though, because this man, talk about a guy that works, works his ass off this time of year. This is the best time of year. And nobody better, especially with the telestrator, than Tim Legler. And he's texting me last night because everybody had a reaction to that finish last night. Nixon, the Pacers. And he was so fired up, he's even like, want me to call in? Like, absolutely want you to call in.
- [01:23]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, why not?
- [01:24]
Alan Hahn
Say he is an open invitation. So the great Tim Legler joins us right now. Legs.
- [01:31]
Tim Legler
What's up, fellas? How are we doing, man? How are you doing? How's, what's the, what's the pulse?
- [01:36]
Alan Hahn
It is.
- [01:36]
Tim Legler
It is New York City right now.
- [01:38]
Alan Hahn
There is no pulse.
- [01:39]
Don Legraek
That's not great, Bob.
- [01:41]
Alan Hahn
It has been. You know what's funny is that they said we're having 26 straight hours of rain here in New York. It started, of course, with Aaron Neesmith.
- [01:49]
Don Legraek
It was raining, all right.
- [01:50]
Alan Hahn
I mean, my God. Like, you're a great shooter, Legs. Did you ever see anything like that? A guy just hits six threes in the fourth quarter, and it just seemed to, I'm not saying be open, but found ways to get open when you would think just at some point somebody'd say, okay, enough's enough. We gotta stop this guy.
- [02:07]
Tim Legler
Yes. I mean, look, I went back and watched it the last three minutes today. Cause I just, I just, I knew I was gonna talk about a lot today. I didn't want to make sure I didn't leave out any details because it's an incalculable amount of things that had to happen in the last three minutes of the game, both directions. And honestly you could say any one of which goes different potentially that it's a different outcome. So that's how many things happen and starts obviously with him because he doesn't do that. We're not talking about this at all today. It's probably going to end up being a 12, 15 point win for the Knicks and that's it. You know, they played great. We would have been talking about how they played great in the fourth quarter, the run they had without Brunson on the floor, which is very improbable. And their defense was great and physical during that stretch when they, when they got to separation and that's that Neesmith is the reason we're talking today. And then there's a lot of other really interesting details that played out during that stretch. But if the guy doesn't go Clay Thompson on us, there's no, we're not having this conversation. And you know what's funny today is like I'm finding how many people, how few people, Alan, had any idea that Neesmith could shoot. Are you fine today?
- [03:19]
Alan Hahn
Like a lot of times I said it twice this morning on Get Up, I said, you guys, he's 53% from three in the playoffs. He was 42% this season. The last two seasons. He's a 40% three point shooter. He has made himself into a good three point shooter. This should not be a shock.
- [03:33]
Tim Legler
No, that's the thing. Like people still think of the N.E. smith they remember from the Boston days who was like primarily an athlete and defender. That's what he was when he first got to Indiana, I think his first year in Indiana, or it might have been his last year in Boston, One of the two, he shot 27% from the three point line. And it was very small sample size because he was selective, because he didn't have range. And he's added to it every year, understanding that now he's in a system with all of that pace and ball movement and player movement. Right. It lends itself. You better learn how to shoot at a higher level. You'll get more minutes and it'll fit well in this style. That's what he's done. Give the guy all the credit in the world. But anybody who all of a sudden is like thinking, oh my God, this is like some just typical free and D guy that went nuts. No, the guy was way better than that this year and he's been even better than that in the playoffs. So it's not shocking that the guy would get hot. It is shocking for any player to be that. I don't care who you are, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Reggie Miller, whoever you want to put in, Tim Legler, I don't care who. It's, it's. That is shocking to hit that many threes in that short a period of time. And look, a couple of them were early, the ones he first got to get going. Yeah, I mean, there wasn't a lot of resistance there. They tried on a couple other ones, but they had blown switches. And I think two of them were OG Anunoby's fault. He was back on a switch 8, 10ft off where he should have been when the switch was going to occur on one on a down screen, one on dribble handoff, one was just. I don't know what Josh Hart was doing, like running to over to the strong side of the floor on a ball screen with Ben Shepard who dove to the rim. Who cares if Ben Shepard's diving to the rim? Mitchell Robinson's back there anyway? Josh Hart like abandoned niece with runs over there to pick up Ben Shepard diving down the lane on a ball screen and it ends up going to Shepard, who then alertly fires the ball cross court to Neismith. And Brunson tried to get out there, but he had to run like 25ft. So the Knicks contributed to it, but the guy. For any player to make that number of threes under those circumstances in that shorter period of time. No, it's, it's, it's almost unprecedented.
- [05:37]
Peter Rosenberg
Now, like you said, it was a bad one minute, it was bad overtime. But for 47 minutes, they did a lot of really good things. So as a former player, is that enough to carry you into game to say, we're fine, we're okay, was just kind of a fluky, bad final minute of regulation. Or is it something that potentially could kind of stick with you in a negative way? And conversely, is it something can even just galvanize the Pacers even more?
- [06:00]
Tim Legler
Well, I think, I think there is a little bit of a carryover, man, just in terms of. Look, if we're in any sort of situation in the series, the Pacers have proven not only in this series, in past series, that there's no hole they can't dig out of if you're not completely in a state of readiness on them because they're. How fast they play, the number of shots they can get off in a short period of time, the number of guys they could shoot. So that they now have proven, like, you're never out of a game for the Knicks. You know, this has now happened to them. They did this to Boston twice now it's happened to them. Maybe there's a little so's, little seed of doubt. The only thing I will disagree with, I'm hearing a lot of talk today, and I'm not saying you said it in this way, but I've heard it said this way today. Oh, The Knicks for 45 minutes dominated that game. And I'm like, what are you talking about? No, the Knicks played very well and the Pacers had a very hard time stopping them. But it was a three point game at the end of the third quarter. I mean, when you're talking about the Pacers on the road in game one of the Eastern Conference Finals, the Pacers also played very well, including incredibly hot start. The Knicks were just proving that, like, this team is having a hard time guarding us. And if you want to take that away as a, as a fan of the Knicks or analyze the Knicks, yeah, man, they really never at any point until crunch time had issues offensively. So that's one thing to take from it. They didn't prove they could stop them until that craziness at the end of the game. But this wasn't like some, you know, the Knicks were steamrolling the Pacers. This was a very good game up until weirdly, Jalen Brunson went to the bench of this fifth foul and they went on that, that run and they got the big lead. Prior to that, it was kind of like back and forth, both teams scoring at will. That was a good sign for the Knicks that they were able to SC that easily and play to their identity and all that was good. But the Pacers were within arm reach until that run. And then of course, they flipped the entire script with the way it played out in the last three minutes.
- [07:49]
Alan Hahn
Legs is being nice to me because I'm the one that said to him last night in our exchange that the Knicks dominated for 40 minutes and his response was 40. It was a three point. Exactly what he said. It was a three point game at the end of third. And then that's when he said, you want me to call in? Because he's like, clearly you need it, Legs. His way is like, clearly you're going to need some help.
- [08:12]
Tim Legler
I wasn't going to call you out. You triggered it. Hey, but listen, to your credit, to your credit, I've done a lot of media hits today, like all over the place. And it comes Up. Knicks completely controlled the game. I'm like, that's not what I was watching until that stretch. They definitely got separation and it was really impressive because their defense got very physical with them. At the exact same time, Anunoby had a little mini run, a couple of layoffs in three. Yeah, he woke up and. And you know, they, they. Exactly. All of it came together and now, boom, there you go, up 17. And I was saying today, which one of these is. He thinks the greater, the greatest way that you can describe it for someone that didn't see the game, to give it the amount of context you need, right. And the impact of what you watch. What is it? 17 with 7 minutes to go? Is it 14 with 3 minutes to go? Is it. Is it 9 with a minute to go or is it 8 with 40 seconds to go? Which one of those four?
- [09:13]
Alan Hahn
If you could sign for one of them, which one would you sign for?
- [09:16]
Don Legraek
Oh, I know, with three minutes with you legs, give me 14 at 255 or whatever that is. I'm feeling good about that. Now, what do you do as a team to like, how do you handle the nearly 48 hours, the 44 hours between these games if you're the Knicks, to get yourself back in the right place mentally heading into game two?
- [09:39]
Tim Legler
Well, last night obviously was a disaster for everybody going home and trying to sleep sick to their stomachs. I got news for you. It's going to be worse today. Today you go in, you're definitely head hanging going into the facility. You're going to watch the film. I think I have assumed because you got to clean some of this stuff up. Oh, yeah, that's going to be a worse feeling because you're going to see how in control you were, how rocking that place was ready to, you know, explode. Game one, you know, you take the lead, you know, you do what you got to do. Very impressive the way you close the game and then you're going to watch that last six minutes or last three minutes, however you want to slice it up, and you're going to feel even worse because you realize how much you contributed to it. So today's even worse. In my opinion. It's not going to start to dissipate until you're probably about ready to go to bed tonight with the excitement of a game tomorrow. By the time they wake up tomorrow, I fully believe they can put this behind them. Now, look, that doesn't mean they can't get some PTSD if something like this starts to play out again in game two, they Big leads disappearing, whatever, you can revisit that. And yet it's almost like it's deja vu. You're going to relive it again. But going into the game, I'm pretty confident they're going to be very clear headed and sort of determined and honestly pissed off. And that's a good feeling to have going into game two. But it's actually a worse feeling today because you're just walking around. You can't play any basketball today, can't do anything about it. You got to sit around, listen to all the noise and negativity and tomorrow you'll feel better when you get to the arena.
- [11:19]
Peter Rosenberg
Tim, it's a complete second guess, but there has been a little conversation about with the run they were able to go on with Brunson on the bench, the fact that he had five fouls, the fact that he's not a great defender and he's going to protect not fouling out of the game. Were they too quick to bring Brunson back into the game?
- [11:36]
Tim Legler
No, I thought they did it at exactly the right time. If you're, you know, being honest, I, I was watching it, waiting, taking notes, and I'm like, no, I thought they put him in at the appropriate time. You know, he has to own some of this because some of the fouls he committed were foolish. Yep, they're foolish. And look, as it turned out, it didn't kill them because they played well with their bench, played well and they played particularly well. That's the starters around him when he was out during that stretch. So it didn't really hurt him. But he's got to be smarter than that with some of those fouls. And obviously ball security played a factor for him. He uncharacteristically had a couple bad turns and actually got so lucky on that play in the backcourt when he got trapped and just threw the ball off the 20ft in the air and there was no Pacer in the area. It was the crazy, crazy that could have been it right there. But so he obviously. Listen, man, the guy's been incredible. He was not at his best down the stretch of that game. But certainly, you know, I can make a long list and I have. I got 27 line items over the last three minutes that I wrote in my notes. 27 different items I took notes on when I watched it back today because some of this stuff is super interesting and I don't think some of these things are getting enough talk today. But look, he's gonna, he feels, he feels as bad as anybody.
- [12:50]
Alan Hahn
The shot that Halliburton hits. Have you. Now, the Kawhi shot against the Sixers is certainly one that stands in our mind of one that hit the rim and like, kind of did like three bounces before it fell in. But this shot from Halliburton, it leaves the frame of your television screen. And I'm. I was, you know, I've been telling people, like I. I'm right there on the court, right. Like a baseline of the, of the, of the rim. So I can see it straight on the rim from the side. When that hits the back rim and goes up in my head, I'm like, oh, it's over. But then I see the ball instead of it. Usually when you hit the back rim, it, you know, it goes far, but it goes straight up.
- [13:37]
Tim Legler
Sure.
- [13:38]
Alan Hahn
It was. It felt like an eternity. And for a moment, there was silence in the building. Have you ever seen anything like that?
- [13:46]
Tim Legler
Well, yeah. So I'm going to give you. And look, I'm going to give you a really quick story. This is not an NBA shot, but I have to tell you because this exact thing and it's. I had a sports writer who used to cover college basketball in Philadelphia for the Philadelphia Daily News texted me within five minutes of this game ending last night because I hit a shot from half court to beat Princeton at Princeton. And the ball, because it was such a far shot, did exactly what Halliburtons did. But I'm telling you, the ball that I shot went even probably 8 to 10ft higher in the.
- [14:20]
Alan Hahn
Wow.
- [14:20]
Peter Rosenberg
From half court.
- [14:21]
Alan Hahn
Sure. Right.
- [14:22]
Tim Legler
Yeah. The horn. The horn went off. The ball's halfway to the basket and hits it, goes up, drops. It was my senior year. It kept us undefeated at the time, winning at Princeton. So. So a shot to bounce that high, basically, you know, with, with the game on the line, honestly, I don't think I've ever seen one because Kawhi didn't even bounce like that. Kawhi. Kawhis was more of a normal bounce height. And it. But it just was weird because it bounced like three, four times on the rim and then dropped in. So to answer your question, the only other time I've really seen a ball go straight up in the air like that to either win or tie a game and drop straight down through the basket. Was. Was the one when I did it against Princeton back in 1987.
- [15:05]
Peter Rosenberg
You think there's any footage of that anywhere?
- [15:06]
Alan Hahn
I'm looking for it right now.
- [15:08]
Tim Legler
I know I got it on the vhs.
- [15:09]
Don Legraek
He watched it Every day.
- [15:11]
Alan Hahn
I got on the vhs. Yeah, you gotta get that converted out.
- [15:16]
Tim Legler
Family. Instead of saying prayer, we watched the tape, and then we eat our meal.
- [15:22]
Alan Hahn
Prayer was answered. So that was your. That one that won the regular season championship, it says.
- [15:29]
Tim Legler
What's that?
- [15:29]
Alan Hahn
That that shot helped you win. It said. It said the victory was LaSalle's first regular season championship since 1975. Is that accurate?
- [15:38]
Tim Legler
I don't know what that meant. Unless that was a tournament.
- [15:40]
Alan Hahn
I don't know.
- [15:41]
Tim Legler
It was early in the year. I know that. It was like, probably in our first. First seven games of the season.
- [15:46]
Alan Hahn
I would bet it was like. Yeah. So it was too early. Yes. I don't know.
- [15:49]
Tim Legler
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [15:50]
Alan Hahn
This is Google AI Overview telling me this.
- [15:52]
Don Legraek
Well, that's because it's. It can only guess with footage this old. I mean, this was.
- [15:55]
Alan Hahn
Wow.
- [15:58]
Tim Legler
Can I give you a footnote on this story? Because this is maybe the best part. I was recruited by Princeton, Pete Carrill, the legendary Pete Carrillo, recruiting me. I chose not to. Not to go there. And I called each of the coaches at the end who were kind of in the mix, and my parents. Are you going to call each of these coaches and tell them they're going to choose a LaSalle and thank them for recruiting you? And I did it all. And all the coaches were incredibly gracious. Pete Carrill actually told me, you made the biggest mistake of your life. I'll never forget him saying that to me on the phone, because he was just Princeton education and all these things. And so when I hit the shot, I turn my team's running onto the court, and. And I remember, like, we're celebrating jumping up, and I look over and he is. He's laying on his back in front of the bench with his hands up above his head. Like he was almost, like, gonna do a snow angel, like, on the court. That's what he looked like. And so I got a little bit of redemption for what Pete Carill said to me.
- [16:50]
Alan Hahn
You didn't do the choke sign, though, that time, huh?
- [16:52]
Tim Legler
I did not do the chokes. I've never done the chokes on in my life. And how that was. I'm sitting there going, if you don't. I know it sucks for the Knicks and sucks for Knicks fans. I get that. But at the same time, I'm sitting there watching this as an impartial observer saying, if you don't love sports, right, how in the world could you ever think you could replicate what happened in that building in the mid-90s to that with Reggie There.
- [17:16]
Alan Hahn
Yes.
- [17:17]
Tim Legler
Reggie's the only, the only thing that didn't quite play out was it wasn't a game winner. They had to go earn that in overtime. But you know, he even I. Do you think he practiced that because he had his hands?
- [17:27]
Alan Hahn
You could have easily.
- [17:29]
Tim Legler
But. But I'm saying the hands, I think right hand on top of left. He could have gone left on top of right. He did exactly the same.
- [17:37]
Peter Rosenberg
It definitely was in his mind for sure.
- [17:39]
Tim Legler
It's incredible that could play out that way with Reggie in the building. And it's just, it's. Sports are the greatest thing in the world. The unpredictability of it. But listen, there was a. I got, I got one. One more point if you have time. I don't want to talk about this today. And it's something I was bringing. Talking about on SVP and today. This challenge notion of guys constantly throughout the game throwing their finger at their bench. Everything that happened, twirl finger. How many coaches, like sometimes they don't even have time to get the confirmation from the second row. But who it is is asking for it on their team. They just call timeout and challenge, right? And you lose the challenge. And some of them are so inconsequential. And I'm just like, why risk it? My point being Rick Carlisle, I think half a dozen times his team was. Was motioning to challenge something in the first three and a half quarters of the game. He did not take the urge to do it because he's like, I'm not risking it. He had that thing in his pocket for that Siakam play at the rim on Anoby. So he gets that right. They're down five. If he doesn't have a challenge, they get two free throws there. Seven point game, they're not winning the game. So he gets the challenge and keeps the challenge. Because then he needed it in the Brunson play on the sideline when the ball got tipped off.
- [18:56]
Alan Hahn
Brunson and that. And that's again that. That was huge for that one. And I thought using the challenge on the Brunson to try to save him from his fifth foul, that was too risky of a. Of a challenge to use there.
- [19:08]
Tim Legler
Completely agree. And that's my whole point. And that's why somebody asked me to like, I never coached in the NBA. I get it. I've coached a lot of basketball. Not in the NBA. But if I did have challenges available to me, I can tell you right now, unless I was just 100% certain with my own eye that I was going to win it. Right, but most of the time you're not. You're not sure. I would never use a challenge in the first half of a game unless. Unless it was to keep my star out of foul trouble or to get the other star player in trouble, in foul trouble. Like, if it's a play like that, I go, man, this could be a difference. Get this guy off the. The floor or keep my guy on the floor. I might do it, but I have to be sure.
- [19:49]
Alan Hahn
Even then, there's too much.
- [19:51]
Tim Legler
Coaches don't hold on to him, to that as long as Rick Carlisle did. And you think it was perfect timing.
- [19:57]
Alan Hahn
And you think about it, too. You only get two. So even if you get the one right in the first half.
- [20:02]
Tim Legler
That's right.
- [20:02]
Alan Hahn
You could have one in the second half, get it right, and now you're out.
- [20:05]
Tim Legler
Yeah, exactly.
- [20:06]
Alan Hahn
And there could be something that happens again, like that you always want to save them for the end. Like I said, there's this. This is an onion. This whole. This ending.
- [20:14]
Peter Rosenberg
It could be a 30 for 30 if. If the Pacers end up winning the series and every Nick fan.
- [20:18]
Alan Hahn
And it's a winning time that doesn't happen, you know?
- [20:20]
Peter Rosenberg
Tim, you went to La Salle. Did you cross over at all with Lionel Simmons?
- [20:24]
Tim Legler
I played two years at Lionel. I was a junior senior when he was a freshman. Sophomore. So his freshman year, my junior year, we played in the NIT championship game at the Garden. Lost that game. And then my senior year with him, we went to the NCAA tournament.
- [20:40]
Peter Rosenberg
NCAA tournament.
- [20:41]
Alan Hahn
L. Turn.
- [20:42]
Peter Rosenberg
All right, so 1990. Spring of 1990, I'm at a party at Lasalle. Whoa.
- [20:47]
Don Legraek
Okay.
- [20:47]
Peter Rosenberg
All right. Drinking Milwaukee's Best.
- [20:49]
Tim Legler
Wait, you're on campus?
- [20:50]
Peter Rosenberg
You're on campus in North Philly? Yes. All right, all right. Because my buddy went to school there. He transferred to Rampo College. We drove down to Philly. He's like, you got to go to this party. And Simmons was at the party, right in the middle of his heyday, and he wasn't drinking Milwaukee's Best. I was, because I had no money. He couldn't have been a nicer guy.
- [21:09]
Tim Legler
No, no, I was a great guy.
- [21:11]
Peter Rosenberg
He walks in and it was like, again, this is right in his head. So I knew exactly who he was. I'm like, oh, my God. You know, we're sitting there, you know, watching, like, movies on the tv. Like I said, I'm literally drinking Milwaukee Spirit.
- [21:23]
Tim Legler
Spirit. Did you say the spring of 1990? Is that what you said?
- [21:26]
Peter Rosenberg
It was somewhere 89 maybe.
- [21:29]
Tim Legler
Well, so. So he graduated in 90. So if it was spring of 1990, he just was national player of the year.
- [21:36]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah. So this.
- [21:37]
Tim Legler
And was about to be the seventh pick in the Dr. That had to.
- [21:40]
Peter Rosenberg
Be then because I knew. Because I, I could. I recognize him.
- [21:43]
Alan Hahn
That's awesome.
- [21:43]
Peter Rosenberg
You know, and so it had. Right.
- [21:45]
Tim Legler
Very, very, very, very laid back, understated personality. We had a good thing going because he was the inside force and I was the outside force. And it worked well. Us playing together. We actually had another pro on the team. Doug Overton was on those teams who played in the league for 10, 12 years. So we actually had three NBA players on the team at the same time.
- [22:05]
Alan Hahn
That's why an NIT championship, NCAA tournament. That's why you get like that out of that league. You've got tonight a very, very interesting. I think, I think for the, for the, for the Thunder tonight, it feels like what they did in game one in the second half. You talk about a tone setter. I thought this would be a really good long series. I'm afraid it might not be legs. Tell me why I'm wrong.
- [22:34]
Tim Legler
You think it might be a long series?
- [22:35]
Alan Hahn
No, I thought, I thought it would be. But what I saw in the second half, knowing Minnesota is a high turnover team, especially their two main ball handlers. Randall's a big turnover guy. Edwards is a turnover guy. What the Thunder do to you with turnovers and scoring off turnovers? I fear this might not be a long series. I fear this might be a quick one. Why am I wrong?
- [22:54]
Tim Legler
I thought it was going to. I thought it was going to be six or seven and I got questions myself, to be honest with you. I also have questions now. What I saw the other night. Now look there, there's. There's. We got to find out about Anthony Ever's ankle because I. He wouldn't use it as an excuse. Players can't win in that situation. You say your ankle bothered you. They say you're making an excuse. You don't say it's bothering you. They attack the way you played. You can't really win if you're the leader. You just gotta suck it up. Don't say anything. Which is what he did. Let people like me say it. I. Here's what I saw in the second half of that game. His favorite shot on the court is going left to a step back shot. Whether it's a mid range or a deep shot. He loves going left and going to the step back and he could do that. You push off with your Right foot, you push off and explode backwards and that's where you get all your lift and elevation and separation. He didn't do it. He did not make that movement and get off the floor and shoot the ball one time in the second half. Not once. And three times in like an eight to ten point game in the early fourth quarter he, he made the movement, he came to the jump, stop out of it, had separation and then started to shoot and stopped and passed the ball. And I'm saying, so if it's not bothering him, he's playing way too conservatively. He took 13 shots, okay? He, in the postseason, he's done that one time, that few of shots and it was a blowout against Golden State. He didn't play the fourth quarter. The last time you got to look for him to take 13 shots in competitive game or a loss is six weeks ago. So what's up? I mean, he's the one guy athletically that can get off shots against this level defense because of his own elevation in athletic ability. He has to be exponentially more aggressive and I think there's going to be a burst out of him tonight. Now look, if he, if he looks a lot more aggressive and looks pretty good physically and they still can't get it done, yeah, man, this is going to be a 5 gamer. But I'm not sure yet. Alan, if what you and I thought about it being long series, I don't know yet if we're right because I did not see a normal Anthony Edwards last night.
- [25:00]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, that's what you worry about.
- [25:02]
Don Legraek
Or the other night, which would be a bummer.
- [25:03]
Peter Rosenberg
Tim, man, thanks for this. Really enjoyed it, man. We'll talk to you soon.
- [25:06]
Tim Legler
Anytime, guys. You got it.
- [25:07]
Don Legraek
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- [27:07]
Alan Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [27:11]
Don Legraek
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [27:12]
Alan Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:20]
Peter Rosenberg
All right, Han, we finally have the two minute report.
- [27:24]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, just to put all that stuff to rest. Well, they.
- [27:29]
Peter Rosenberg
The Halliburton is.
- [27:31]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, the Halliburton traveling, traveling or the double dribble. Right. They do say, as Peter mentioned, that the ball is deflected by bridges.
- [27:40]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [27:41]
Alan Hahn
And therefore he legally dribbles, gathers the ball, takes two steps into a shooting motion. So there was. There was no call to be made there.
- [27:48]
Peter Rosenberg
Right.
- [27:49]
Alan Hahn
There are the missed fouls on the top and dunk on bridges. That was an incorrect call, meaning that he should have gotten a call for the foul there. We saw that. We knew about that. There's another one on towns that they say that Towns fouled Nismith in overtime early in overtime.
- [28:12]
Peter Rosenberg
Yes.
- [28:14]
Alan Hahn
42.6 yeah, on a no call there. But other than that, clean pretty even. Now I'm trying to figure out where was the goaltend that we thought was a goaltend.
- [28:28]
Peter Rosenberg
Now does that get mentioned? I guess it would right? If they mentioned the non travel and it's not a foul. But if they mentioned the non travel, wouldn't they mention that they blew the call on the.
- [28:43]
Alan Hahn
Yes they would. It would say that a call should have been a golden but if it happened outside of the two minutes, remember it's the last two minute report. So I think that was. That was with more time left. That's why that's not on this report.
- [28:56]
Peter Rosenberg
So it's.
- [28:58]
Alan Hahn
It's the last two minutes of the game and overtime.
- [29:01]
Peter Rosenberg
And all of overtime.
- [29:02]
Alan Hahn
All of overtime, yes.
- [29:03]
Peter Rosenberg
So how much time on the. On the goaltend? That's what I'm trying to be, less than two minutes. No, no, no.
- [29:09]
Alan Hahn
I thought it was too. Because they would have said it.
- [29:12]
Peter Rosenberg
Now let me ask you this. I know they. All right, it's a two minute report, but something that questionable.
- [29:16]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. They won't only last two minutes. That's all they do. They'll review that and release that. What was the right call, what was a wrong call. But I don't know why I can't. Because, you know, there was. It's such a blur. Now, was that, was that in overtime? I'm looking, because I'm looking through the play by play right now for what would be called a block shot, right? Yes, that would have been called the block shot.
- [29:43]
Peter Rosenberg
What do you say?
- [29:44]
Alan Hahn
I don't.253. Is it just the last two minutes of OT also?
- [29:49]
Tim Legler
Or is all of.
- [29:50]
Alan Hahn
No, no, it's all of ot.
- [29:51]
Tim Legler
Then they just said we're good.
- [29:52]
Alan Hahn
No, no, There is no 253 on my play by play. Oh, I'm in the fourth quarter, dumbass.
- [30:00]
Peter Rosenberg
If it's all overtime, then it was.
- [30:02]
Alan Hahn
An over 253 turner block. So they said that we're good. We're not even going to reveal it. Well, but they would make reference to it in one way or another.
- [30:12]
Peter Rosenberg
There'd be a reference that they made the right call, that it's correct.
- [30:15]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, because. Well, maybe not. I again, I'd have to ask.
- [30:20]
Peter Rosenberg
God, there's a lot here.
- [30:21]
Alan Hahn
No, there's no. There's no nothing. No, the first overtime reference is the 157 to go. You can't tell me it's the last two minutes of overtime. Please don't tell me it's the last two minutes of overtime. Can't tell me that. You gotta. It's gotta be all of overtime.
- [30:48]
Peter Rosenberg
The last two minutes of the fourth quarter and then the last two minutes of overtime. Is that the way it works?
- [30:52]
Alan Hahn
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [30:54]
Tim Legler
The way it's Described is last 2.
- [30:55]
Alan Hahn
Minutes of 4th quarter and overtime applicable. Yeah. And overtime. I always assumed it was all of overtime because all of overtime is important. You would think, right?
- [31:04]
Peter Rosenberg
Well, you said applicable. So is it all of overtime.
- [31:07]
Tim Legler
Yeah.
- [31:07]
Peter Rosenberg
Or just the last two minutes.
- [31:09]
Alan Hahn
Well no, no it's not. It's in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter and overtime where we're applicable. Meaning that if there's overtime, if there's no overtime there's no necessary. You know they don't have anything. So when it applies there's an overtime. Last two minutes of overtime, not the whole frickin overtime. That's the problem.
- [31:27]
Peter Rosenberg
Because you're right the first reference. But wait a minute here.
- [31:29]
Alan Hahn
It's just so weird.
- [31:30]
Peter Rosenberg
Well here because they have.
- [31:32]
Alan Hahn
I've never cared more about a last two minute report that I had no interest in because there wasn't much to solve on this one. This was not an official, official game that you were supposed to.
- [31:42]
Peter Rosenberg
Just because we're here. All right. We're definitely in the weeds. Okay. But too deep now on the Carl Anthony Towns puts his hand on.
- [31:51]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [31:51]
Peter Rosenberg
The foul.
- [31:52]
Alan Hahn
It's 157.8.
- [31:53]
Peter Rosenberg
Well that's. But it says 203 to 157.1 with a blank. But it says but the place starts at 203. So is that applying that it's not just the final two minutes or it's when the actual calls made at 1 minute 57.8.
- [32:10]
Alan Hahn
I don't know.
- [32:10]
Peter Rosenberg
But it says two to.
- [32:12]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [32:12]
Peter Rosenberg
Well how do they not address that?
- [32:16]
Alan Hahn
I surprising that you wouldn't do last two minutes and all of overtime. That's what it is.
- [32:21]
Peter Rosenberg
Definitely the last two minutes. Because even in the fourth quarter one where they're talking about Shepherd. It's 204 the start of the flight.
- [32:28]
Alan Hahn
It's so it's the first play under two minutes. Yeah.
- [32:30]
Peter Rosenberg
So.
- [32:31]
Alan Hahn
So they don't tell you about anything from 5 minute mark to the 2 minute mark of overtime.
- [32:37]
Don Legraek
That's crazy.
- [32:38]
Alan Hahn
So that's where the goaltend allegedly happened and the league the officials don't have to review that. So we'll. We'll never know the truth.
- [32:47]
Don Legraek
It certainly looked I. I wanted to see a secondary angle. When they showed the angle from behind.
- [32:53]
Alan Hahn
The backboard timing seemed perfect. Right.
- [32:55]
Don Legraek
It seemed very close.
- [32:56]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [32:57]
Don Legraek
I would have needed another angle.
- [32:58]
Alan Hahn
But it really. If you think about it, that's a six point game. It could have been just which normally.
- [33:04]
Don Legraek
I would say means it's over. Of course in this game how could you reasonably say that?
- [33:07]
Peter Rosenberg
But wow. Brendan. I don't know if you saw this. Brendan sent it on Twitter.
- [33:11]
Alan Hahn
All right.
- [33:11]
Peter Rosenberg
We love closest comp I can think of to Halliburton shot last night was A don Nelson game seven shot in the 69 finals. And they're showing the highlight of it. And it's from the foul line, but it's almost identical. Hits the back rim, goes out of the picture and then down. It's the identical shot. But that's still John Franklin Frenchie Fuqua, 56 years ago.
- [33:35]
Don Legraek
You know what he's given.
- [33:36]
Tim Legler
Fellas, I got one quickie.
- [33:38]
Peter Rosenberg
And speaking of high. Don Nelson.
- [33:40]
Don Legraek
Yeah, exactly. Richard of Manhattan.
- [33:42]
Tim Legler
Hi, Richard. I bought papers.
- [33:48]
Alan Hahn
All right, you want to, want to continue with the people?
- [33:50]
Don Legraek
Yeah, let's talk to our people.
- [33:51]
Peter Rosenberg
Yeah, we definitely should do that.
- [33:52]
Alan Hahn
All right. We want people to vent. So let's let Adam from Staten Island.
- [33:56]
Don Legraek
Adam.
- [33:56]
Alan Hahn
Go Adam.
- [33:58]
Caller
Guys, guys. Lifelong Nets fan. I'm gonna be ready to go tomorrow, but I gotta say there is absolutely no positive spin on this. This is an embarrassment of epic proportion. They should never have been in this position. You cannot lose this game. I mean that's just plain and simple. All the even like what you guys talking about now with the goaltender, it was a goaltend and they would have been up 6. But that's so irrelevant. Halliburton shot irrelevant. It should never have come to that. But I will say the one thing that they have to take from this, the one positive thing I can think of, is that they have to feel so embarrassed that their peers and everyone watched this game and saw the biggest meltdown of all time. That they have to. They have to make it a footnote in history by winning the series. It's the only way. I talk about this all the time. There are moments in sports that get erased by wins and losses. I always reference the Andy Chavez catch as could have went down as one of the greatest catches in the history of the Mets and one of the greatest catches of baseball. No one except for Met fans even knows about it because they lost.
- [35:04]
Peter Rosenberg
Right. Well, you know the one. I'm sorry, the only one I could think of is. I guess it was the 2010 playoffs. Yankees, Rangers. Didn't the Rangers blow like a. An eight run lead? And I remember Michael was doing a stand up in the post game saying this series is over. And the Rays Rangers ended up winning the series anyway. You're right, Adam, make it a footnote.
- [35:22]
Caller
Yeah, you have. That's the only way that. Because if they lose this series, whether it's six games or seven games, it will always come back to. They blew the worst. They blew the lead in the first game. Yeah, the worst things in history.
- [35:35]
Alan Hahn
And Adam, you remember that it's it's the same thing that happened in 95 when Reggie Miller.
- [35:40]
Caller
But let me say this, Alan. Let me just say this, Alan, before you. Before you let me go. Halliburton, if he wants to do the choke sign, remember history, okay? Because what happened in that series.
- [35:52]
Alan Hahn
Well, that was 94. Again. That was 94. When. When Reggie did the choke sign, was the 94, game five. And then John Starks had the great game six. He saved Spike Lee, and then Patrick had the game seven. But what I'm saying is, the game one, though, this felt more like that. Eight points in nine seconds, which is Reggie Miller, game one, 95 at the Garden. And that was the one that flipped the series right out of the gate. And the Knicks didn't win that series. Patrick Ewing missed the finger roll. So. So that's why that one lives more. The other one sort of was the precursor to what happened a year later. But this one, this one, you got to do the same thing to it. You gotta. You gotta win the series. So that becomes, as he said, the footnote. Pete and Staten island, let's stay on State. Hey, Pete. Pete.
- [36:41]
Tim Legler
Hey, Dylan.
- [36:41]
Caller
Guys, unfortunately, I have to make this phone call the way I am, but, you know, everybody keeps referencing, especially you.
- [36:50]
Tim Legler
Allen, that.
- [36:53]
Caller
They'Ve been through this kind of thing before and have come back from bad losses. So I'm kind of wondering where you're referencing that.
- [37:04]
Alan Hahn
I mean, now, anything this year? No, no. Well, no, no, no. I. Obviously, this kind of a loss is devastating at a whole other level. What I was saying is that this team has shown you they have bounced back after bad losses, bad performances. They're very good at that. They've done that. Just look at the. Look at Game three and how bad they played against Boston the next game. They played great. Game 5 in Boston. They looked awful. Everybody thought, oh, my God, the pressure's on them. You don't want a seven. And they come out and they dominate Game six. They have shown you this in the Pistons series. They showed you the same Game six after the loss, after the loss, Game five. Like, they have shown you the ability to do it last year against the Sixers, same story. So I. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying this type of loss.
- [37:51]
Peter Rosenberg
No, obviously on much different level, this does not happen. But they have shown that they're a mental club. And to Peter's point earlier, thumping them tomorrow, even this series can go a long way to kind of getting things back on track.
- [38:04]
Don Legraek
But I'm not giving up if they lose tomorrow. But I'd much rather them.
- [38:09]
Alan Hahn
It's tough to believe. I'll be honest.
- [38:11]
Don Legraek
It would be scary.
- [38:11]
Peter Rosenberg
It would be. It would be.
- [38:13]
Don Legraek
I do believe that. I believe these teams are evenly matched enough. I agree that the Knicks could go in both Indy. I do.
- [38:19]
Alan Hahn
Tough place to win, but it's that place is a tough place to win.
- [38:22]
Peter Rosenberg
Very tough place to win. Big.
- [38:23]
Don Legraek
Ask Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big.
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Alan Hahn
Wireless way too much.
- [38:29]
Don Legraek
Please, for the love of everything good.
- [38:31]
Alan Hahn
In this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying.
- [38:37]
Don Legraek
No judgments.
- [38:38]
Alan Hahn
But that's weird.
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Don Legraek
Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
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Tim Legler
Of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate.
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Alan Hahn
First 3 months only, then full price.
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Tim Legler
Plan options available, taxes and fees extra.
- [38:53]
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- [39:22]
Peter Rosenberg
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- [39:47]
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- [39:51]
Alan Hahn
Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [39:55]
Don Legraek
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [39:56]
Alan Hahn
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:04]
Peter Rosenberg
Let's get back to the busy phones. 1-800-919-3776. Let's go to Muhammad on Long Island. You're in ESPN New York.
- [40:14]
Commercial Voice
How you doing guys? Thanks for taking my call, man. Make this short and sweet. Han, I wanted to get your opinion on this. Right now I play basketball. Not a lot, but under the whistle up through high school school and you know you'll hear coaches implore the press, right?
- [40:28]
Tim Legler
Press, press, press.
- [40:29]
Commercial Voice
And then, you know, the opposing coach would do what? Implore the press breaker. So I'm wondering, like in the pros, and do these pro teams practice press breakers or anything to try to play that they would have ready for when you're being pressed on the inbounds? Because Brunson just being trapped in a corner like that and just throwing it, hopefully. I mean, luckily it wasn't stolen, but I just wanted to do these teams practice a press breaker at all. Thanks for taking my call. Me.
- [40:52]
Peter Rosenberg
All right. Thanks, Mohammed.
- [40:54]
Alan Hahn
I mean, they do. They. They have all the things that they want to do, right? Situational things.
- [41:00]
Don Legraek
I do see why he think they did after how it looked a couple of times yesterday.
- [41:03]
Alan Hahn
And there are. There are times when, of course, where you have your. This is what we. They have a foundation. Like, you got to understand, it's not like high school where you have a play where there's X's on the board and everybody goes to their certain spots. There's things that they'll put on the dry erase board during the timeout and they'll say, all right, let's do this. This is what they see. A lot of times you can't predetermine what your opponent's doing. So many things are done with a here's a foundation of what we're doing and then what the opposing team is doing. Okay, now you're in game. This is what they're doing with us. Here's how we're going to counter it. That's done in the timeout. Everybody pay attention. Everybody knows their role. Now do it. So it's different than high school where you're running the same play every day in practice. And this is what we'll do in a game regardless, because, you know, you're not going up against exotic defenses and you're not going up against elite athletes. So there. Just to answer the question, there's a foundation, and then during the game, there is how do we counter what they're doing to us or what our scouting tells us they do when they press or when they zone? And that's how you base it.
- [42:13]
Peter Rosenberg
Chris and Great Neck, you're on. Don, Han and Rosenberg.
- [42:16]
Commercial Voice
Hey, what's going on, guys? I just want to say I appreciate everything, guys. Do you guys make my commute to work and back a lot easier?
- [42:22]
Peter Rosenberg
Cool, man.
- [42:24]
Caller
Yeah.
- [42:24]
Commercial Voice
So I just wanted to share my concern in regards to last night's game. I just want to piggyback off what you Guys said in terms of it being a tone setter, and it actually gave me PS ptsd. And it reminded me of last year's World Series. Yankees, Dodgers.
- [42:38]
Alan Hahn
Oh, my God.
- [42:38]
Commercial Voice
Bottom of the ninth. Yep, Freddy Krueger. And I'm gonna call him Freddy Krueger because he gave me nightmares after. And yeah, and it honestly, after that day, I remember I was in Queens watching the game. It was very lively. New York was rocking. And I tell you, like, it really took the life out of New Yorkers. And that's how I felt last night as a Knicks fan as well. And I really hope that this doesn't set a different type of trajectory that we saw coming in as far as them winning the series, you know, so granted, it was. It was the World Series, this is the playoffs, but I feel like, as a Knicks fan, it sure does feel like that. And it kind of does feel like it's in the same altitude. So I just really hope that these guys, they get it together and they finish it out. You know, I hope it's not a repeat of, you know, what happened last year, because I'm going to be honest, after I saw that grand slam, I told myself, they're not winning. Like, the Yankees are shot. That's it. It's over. And it really is a tone set. It really does make a difference in terms of how. Go ahead.
- [43:34]
Peter Rosenberg
I thought. I thought the same thing because that was game one and it did set the tone. But I know Yankee fans will get mad at me. I think the Dodgers were the better team. I don't think the Pacers are the better team here. The Dodgers could have won that series in five games anyway, because I think the Dodgers were that good. Not that the Yankees weren't, but I thought the Dodgers were just a better team. Alan, you're a Yankee fan. Do you agree?
- [43:53]
Alan Hahn
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to believe it. I wanted to find, like, can they just match up? You know? But when you see the magic of Freddie Free, like, there was something. Every team has that magic. And that's what, you know, if I. If I'm going to reveal everything again. Freddie Freeman hitting that home run and having the series he had, you had to feel like, okay, they were a team of destiny. The Pacers have been playing like a team of destiny.
- [44:14]
Peter Rosenberg
They have the way that they.
- [44:15]
Alan Hahn
The Knicks have two. The Knicks have had a team of destiny feel to them as well, but we're focused on them. And meanwhile, the Pacers have had this run since January 1st that has had that same kind of feel where they have just come together and become a really, really good team that just honestly always seems to believe. So, yeah, you get that feeling.
- [44:36]
Peter Rosenberg
I think you can bounce back because I think you're, you're, you're better than the Pacers are. I'm not, I, I definitely didn't think the Yankees were better.
- [44:42]
Alan Hahn
Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. I think that's also fair to say.
- [44:45]
Peter Rosenberg
I just think that the Dodgers, maybe if they don't win in that way, they still win the series in five and maybe, maybe, you know what I'm.
- [44:51]
Alan Hahn
Saying, like getting Walker Bueller to just show up and suddenly give you something like there was just, there's all kinds of things that happened.
- [44:56]
Peter Rosenberg
I just also think the Dodgers, but I think, I think the Knicks are a better team. That doesn't mean they're going to win, but I think they're a better team. Let's go to Peter and Elmont. You're on espn. New York.
- [45:06]
Tim Legler
Good afternoon.
- [45:07]
Caller
How are you? You brought up don Nelson in 1969, which was an even more, much more dramatic and hilarious situation. Game seven in the Forum. Celtics, Lakers. And I remember that the shot. Don Nelson shot sealed the win for the Celtics in the final.
- [45:27]
Alan Hahn
The way he got the ball, Peter, the way he gets the ball is. It was deflected to him. He just caught it.
- [45:32]
Tim Legler
Yeah, yeah.
- [45:33]
Caller
I think Kavlichek deflected it. It was, it was him getting. It was accidental. And then, and then the ball goes straight up and falls through. And Jack Kent Cook had filled the ceiling of the Forum with balloons. Lakers NBA champion balloons.
- [45:46]
Alan Hahn
Yes.
- [45:47]
Caller
And they, and they stayed there. So that, that was crazy. I, I, I respectfully disagree that this, that the Knicks are. I. Town says there's no one on the, on the Pacers in the Pacers roster that Towns can guard.
- [46:02]
Alan Hahn
No one can guard him. You could argue that no one could guard him.
- [46:07]
Caller
Sure. But Thibodeau is showing you what he thinks of Town's defense. Flipping Mitchell in. Mitchell Robinson in three last. You know, back and forth and you know this, this Pacers team beat. Has already beaten a better team than the Knicks. A brilliantly coached team in the Cavs.
- [46:26]
Peter Rosenberg
But a bang team.
- [46:28]
Caller
They. Yes, but the Pacers rapidly recognize mismatches and they produce them. And, and they have three guys so valuable in the playoffs when you're under pressure who can move the ball around into through a zone and salvage possessions. Nemhardt, Helliburton and, and the Lake Knicks have only one guy who does that. Who Salvages possessions and runs. Play a mismatch. Seeking plays right and espresso.
- [47:02]
Alan Hahn
Now, Peter, can I, can I simplify it for you what you're trying to say?
- [47:06]
Caller
Yeah.
- [47:07]
Alan Hahn
In the first two series Tom Thibodeau had the coaching. He was the better coach. He out coached JB Bickerstaff. He out coached Joe Missoula.
- [47:21]
Caller
He did.
- [47:21]
Alan Hahn
He is meeting his match with Rick Carlisle. Rick Carlisle is also a great coach who has his team prepared.
- [47:29]
Tim Legler
Yeah.
- [47:30]
Caller
The pacers bench played 75 minutes and the Knicks bench again.
- [47:34]
Alan Hahn
I don't. I find that to be. That's, that's irrelevant. I think it's irrelevant.
- [47:38]
Caller
I don't, I don't. Why did, why did Josh Hart fall asleep?
- [47:44]
Alan Hahn
I think they were mentally rattled. We're going to use them. We're going to use the tired excuse. They had four days off. They were rested. That was a game one. If this was game six or game five, maybe Peter, I'd say yeah, maybe it's where it's catching up to them. They had four days off. This is, this is a very well conditioned team. It's the only thing I'm not going to give but I will say Rick Carlisle like this is. Tom Thibodeau's met his match here. Rick, Carl's a great coach.
- [48:07]
Peter Rosenberg
He's an outstanding coach. But you know the way the Pacers play with ironically pace.
- [48:12]
Alan Hahn
Yeah.
- [48:13]
Peter Rosenberg
Could end up wearing this Nick teen pants. That's the series goes on because every.
- [48:17]
Alan Hahn
Day now they do that to all their opponents. They want to by the end. Why did Rick Carlisle say this is the first day of 13? He wants you to know it's a marathon and we think we have guys that are going to have that will have fresher team than you will be when we get to day 10, 11 and 12. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know to how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.