Hour 3: Yo-Yo vs Bad

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast

Episode: Hour 3: Yo-Yo vs Bad
Date: February 17, 2026
Hosts: Don (Don La Greca), Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Network: ESPN New York

Episode Overview

This episode dives into New York sports, focusing on what makes the Mets and Jets unique (or uniquely flawed) franchises, the ongoing debate over team captains—particularly for the Mets—and the deeper meanings behind organizational decisions. The hosts riff energetically about team cultures, leadership philosophies, and New York sports identity, engaging callers and drawing broad, sometimes hilarious, analogies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Steve Cohen, Mets Ownership, and the Captaincy Debate

• Steve Cohen’s Statement: Mets owner Steve Cohen declared there “will never be a captain as long as [he owns] the Mets.” (00:44)
  • Don: “There will never be a captain. As long as I’m owning the team, there will never be a team captain.” (00:54)
  • The hosts analyze whether this speaks to management philosophy or deeper locker room issues.
• Is Captaincy a Tradition or Necessity?
  • Alan: “The Yankee captain thing was like, a thing because of Munson...But it felt like that was a Yankee thing.”
  • In baseball, captaincy is rare except for the Yankees, while hockey and football institutionalize such roles. (03:09-04:09)
  • Don: “It’s not that big of a deal...not like hockey, where you have responsibilities.” (03:08)
  • Alan: “If you have to say, ‘this guy’s the captain,’ then is he really the captain? The players will let you know who really runs the room.” (05:11)
• Why Cohen’s Stance?
  • Hosts speculate it’s about avoiding internal friction—especially after apparent player cliques (Lindor vs. Soto, etc.).
  • Don: “There was friction in the room last year. When you designate somebody a captain...there are going to be some guys that might feel a way about it.” (04:10)
  • Having a captain should be organic, possibly voted by players—but even that could be divisive if the room lacks consensus.
  • Alan: “What if it’s a split vote? ... Do you want to have that conversation?” (07:12)

2. Nature of Leadership—Does It Need a Title?

• Great leaders don’t always require formal designations.
  • Alan: “Judge is very much the voice in that room...No one—he doesn’t need a designation.” (06:39-06:43)
  • Leadership roles must also avoid becoming ego appeasement (cf. Yashin on Islanders—06:54).
• Positional Leadership
  • Debates whether pitchers should ever be captains.
    • Don (sarcastically): “As long as I own this team, no pitcher would be a captain.” (13:37)
    • Alan counters by pointing to CC Sabathia’s leadership despite being a starting pitcher. (12:16-12:23)
  • Reference to “Reindeer Games” like when Vancouver made goalie Roberto Luongo captain—a move universally deemed “stupid.” (12:43)

3. What Makes the Mets and Jets “Yo-Yo” or “Bad”?

• Defining "Yo-Yo" vs. "Bad":
  • Don: “The Mets genuinely chose to be yo-yo. Even if the Mets won the World Series this year, there’d still be an underlying yo-yo.” (17:27)
  • The Jets, by contrast, are just “bad—not good at what they do.” (16:16)
  • Running jokes about historic oddities: Met the Donkey as mascot, tomato patches in the bullpen, Mr. Met as mascot, and the Mets’ early branding (14:58, 16:14).
  • Alan: “The Jets aren’t yo-yo, they’re just circus...They’re just bad at football.” (15:08, 16:18)
• Culture and Identity
  • Mets consciously built quirky, underdog traditions to distinguish themselves from the Yankees; Jets, meanwhile, stumble through dysfunction.
  • Literary and pop culture references ("Diary of a Wimpy Kid" analogy: Mets = nerdy Greg, Jets = doofus Rowley—36:16)
  • Don: “The Mets are the team that’s got the pocket protector...The Jets don’t even function. They walk out of the house naked because they don’t know how to get dressed.” (33:19-33:33)
• Caller Exchange Highlights
  • How bad luck (e.g., creating Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers’ instant injury) sometimes plagues the Jets, but that’s still different from the “yo-yo” syndrome the Mets possess. (32:10-32:35)

4. Yankees Leadership and Offseason Moves

• Caller Brian in Staten Island (26:31) pushes back on the hosts’ interpretation of Aaron Judge’s comments, suggesting Judge was more critical of the timing of moves (not necessarily new additions).
  • Brian: “I thought the vibe from Judge...was more, ‘hey, I thought the team we had last year was good enough to win...I didn’t understand why they weren’t bringing these guys back.’”
  • The hosts cite Judge’s comments about the club delaying on moves for Bellinger and Grisham, possibly missing out on other talent as a result (28:25).
  • Alan: “If you want to send a message, go talk to Hal and Brian [Cashman] and give it to them. You don’t have to go public with it.” (28:41)
  • Critique that Judge "played both sides," not fully supporting the front office nor the team. (29:03)

5. NBA Playoffs Outlook

• Caller Manny asks about which NBA team might go on a second-half run. (37:38)
  • Alan: “Cleveland Cavaliers. They have one of the easiest schedules remaining...Keep an eye on that team.” (38:06-38:22)
  • Knicks’ schedule discussed as a “gauntlet” right after the break. (38:36)

6. Ownership Scandals and Accountability

• Discussion about Giants co-owner Steve Tisch’s alleged involvement in the Epstein files.
  • Consideration of whether the sins of the father should force the family to cede ownership.
    • Don: “Is it right that his kids would be forced to sell their ownership of the team because of something their dad did?” (50:25)
    • NFL’s process, past scandals, and how owners are ultimately policed by their peers (not the commissioner). (48:42-49:00)
    • Consensus that Tisch would, in all likelihood, be forced out if the allegations are validated. (47:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Captaincy and Locker Room Politics

• Don (04:10): “When you designate somebody as the captain, you’re saying that universally everybody believes that he’s the leader of the team...that can cause more problems when you do that.”
• Alan (05:11): “If you have to say, ‘this guy’s the captain,’ then is he really the captain? The players will let you know who really runs the room.”
• Don (07:23): “So what if you put it to a vote? It’s 50-50 Lindor-Soto. You can’t. Half the room, that’s my cap.”

On Why the Mets Are "Yo-Yo"

• Don (16:16): “The Mets genuinely chose to be yo yo. When you look at Mr. Met...their mascot was a jackass...they were really committed to wedding [fans] because...we’re going to lose a thousand games, the Yankees are going to win World Series every year. We got to try to win some people.”
• Alan (36:16): “Dire View of a Wimpy Kid: The Mets are Greg, the Jets are Rowley.”

On Leadership Without Titles

• Alan (06:41): “Judge is very much the voice in that room...No one—he doesn’t need a designation.”
• Don (13:37): “If I was the owner...as long as I own this team, no pitcher would be a captain.”

On Bad Luck and Franchise Identity

• Caller Mateo (32:10): “We created Tom Brady. Does everybody forget that?”
• Alan (32:28): “Aaron Rodgers, four plays in. Having his Achilles snap is so...”
• Don (33:19): “The Mets are the team that’s got the pocket protector...The Jets don’t even function. They walk out of the house naked because they don’t know how to get dressed.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Cohen’s “No Captain” Declaration: 00:44 – 04:44
• Analyzing Leadership Traditions in Sports: 03:08 – 08:38
• Debate: Mets Yo-Yo vs. Jets Bad: 14:05 – 19:30 (and recurring theme)
• Yankees/ Judge’s Comments/ Offseason Moves: 26:31 – 30:28
• NBA Playoff Outlook & Callers: 37:38 – 38:44
• Ownership Scandal Debate (Giants/ Epstein/ Tisch): 45:29 – 51:32

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Tone & Style

• Free-wheeling, witty, big-hearted New York banter
• Heavy use of cultural references, metaphors, and jokes (“yo-yo organization,” “pocket protector,” “Step Brothers,” “Diary of a Wimpy Kid”)
• Animated, occasionally irreverent discourse about the heart of NY sports culture

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Stands Out

• Provides unique insight into how New Yorkers experience their teams—sometimes with affection, sometimes with exasperation.
• Digs into the psychology of leadership and organizational culture in sports, going beyond stats or rosters.
• Features lots of direct quotes, energetic debates, and relatable, funny analogies.

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Recommended for: Anyone invested in NY sports, culture, or the quirks of leadership in high-stakes environments. Even non-fans will love the hosts’ chemistry and sharp comedic takes.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

This is the door Don Hahn at Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me. Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New.

[Alan Hahn]

York app and your smart speakers.

[Don Hahn]

Game time is brought to you by Tullimore New Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, guys, it's tele time. There are no locals in action tonight, but we do have college basketball double header on ESPN starting with number 16th ranked North Carolina against NC State. I want to thank Jonathan Green who tweeted me earlier on the show. Dave's son Alex is an NC fan because he was born in North Carolina when Dave and Sherry were living in North Carolina early in Dave's career. So I guess this makes some sense there. North Carolina taking NC State followed by Georgia at Kentucky. Also, I want to update you. Sweden is taking on Latvia early third period. Sweden's up 3:1. The reason I bring this up, the winner of this game will take on the USA tomorrow. So you want to root for Latvia to come back because Sweden is going to be no joke for the U.S. canada is going to take on the Czech team as they won earlier today against Denmark. Tu the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Iris whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullimore Dew. Honey, during today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. Want to throw this on the hopper? And we got the calls to get to it. 1-800-919-3776. Steve Cohen talked and he's excited about the team and Mendoza is his manager and yada yada yada. But he said something kind of interesting. There will never be a captain as long as he owns the Mets. As long as I'm owning the team, there will never be a team captain. Really?

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, that, that, that was my decision.

[Don Hahn]

My view is the locker room is unique, you know, and let the locker.

[Alan Hahn]

Room sort it out year in, year out.

[Don Hahn]

And so, so you're not Saying never be one. No, they'll never be a captain. They'll never be a captain. They'll never be a captain. Pay attention. When did you make that decision?

[Alan Hahn]

I felt that way all along.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Now, what I read into this.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that's what I said. Like, honestly. Yeah, that's what I said.

[Don Hahn]

So what you're saying is. What I'm saying is. Is what I'm saying. Hello, McFly. This tells me there clearly was an issue in that locker room. And I think when you're taking captain off the table, because, let's face it, in baseball, it's not a big deal. The Yankees have a captain, but they didn't have a captain between Munson and Mattingly. Didn't have a captain between Mattingly and Jeter, and didn't have a captain between Jeter and Judge. So it's not that big of a deal. All right, so it's not like hockey, where you have responsibilities.

[Alan Hahn]

On that point, if I may.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, sure. Isn't this.

[Alan Hahn]

Is that a baseball? Like, I never knew that there was a cap. Like, the Yankee captain thing was like, a thing because of Munson, because of.

[Don Hahn]

You know, who they were, Garrick.

[Alan Hahn]

But it was. It felt like that was a Yankee thing. Like, does every team in baseball have a captain?

[Don Hahn]

I mean, one year they made Keith Hernandez a captain and put a C. And it looked. It was so stupid. So another year they had John Franco as the captain.

[Alan Hahn]

I remember that well.

[Don Hahn]

The guy that gets into 35 games as a captain.

[Alan Hahn]

But all I'm asking, Don, is just for the audience and myself, is this isn't like. Like hockey, Every team has to have a captain, right?

[Don Hahn]

Yes. Well, they don't have to, but there is a responsibility on the ice.

[Alan Hahn]

In football, everybody has, like, the little.

[Don Hahn]

Patch, the different units, they go out there for the coin.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. So those are designate. Is this a. This isn't like a. Something that is tradition in baseball? I thought it was a Yankee tradition.

[Don Hahn]

No, it's a Yankee tradition. There are captains in baseball, but it's not to the level it is in football and high.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, all right, all right.

[Don Hahn]

But I think the reason he's doing it is because I think that there was friction in the room last year. When you designate somebody as the captain, you're saying that universally everybody believes that he's the leader of the team. What he's telling you is when you do that, there are going to be some guys that might be away about it. Yeah, right. That's why a team should always vote for the captain. Like, I always thought it was weird, like, when a general manager or head coach comes in and says, I'll designate the captain. No, it's got to be done organically in the room, but with. Because you get. You get certain clicks right in that room, and you don't want, like, oh, I'm gonna follow this guy, but this guy's my captain. Don't listen to him. Listen to this guy. There's no need for it. I actually respect his decision to do it. I guess you gotta be careful, because if Juan Soto all of a sudden decides, you know what would be fun, Steve? If I was the captain, are you gonna tell him? No, but I don't think that'll be the case. I think it's much ado about nothing, but at the same time, I respect his decision because I do think there was an issue in that room last year, and he doesn't want to have to. There'd be another one.

[Alan Hahn]

If you have to say, this guy's the captain, then is he really the captain? Like, the players will let you know who's really the one that runs the room or controls the mood of the team like that. That's something, you know, whether you ask the players to vote it or not. Sometimes you name a player a captain. As an organization, when you're building something and say, this is the standard, what this guy does, and we want everybody else to sort of follow that lead from here on out. Right. Maybe you do that. But for the most part, I completely agree with you. The players, you'll see it. Who really runs the. Like, who's in control, who runs the room, stuff like that. Because, look, you remember when they made Yashin captain.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And it was like, what are you doing? What are we doing? You know what I mean? Michael Petka was always a leader. He was always a captain. You put the C on his chest when he came to the. To the Islanders because he already was a designated leader in the league. But no one looked at Yashin as a leader, and it was an ego boost for him to make him feel good, and no one in the room saw it that way. And it can cause more problems when you do that.

[Don Hahn]

Of course it can. And I tell you what, if captain wasn't a thing with the Yankees, I don't think they'd make Judge a captain, but it became a thing because Jeter was the captain. He's the next great player. I mean, think of the guys that had it, you know? Garrick Munson. Yeah. Mattingly. These are the biggest names in the history of the organization that usually were considered captain.

[Alan Hahn]

Now, to be fair, Judge is very much the voice in that room.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, no question.

[Alan Hahn]

No one. No one.

[Don Hahn]

He doesn't need a designation. Right. To be that.

[Alan Hahn]

But that's a Yankee tradition. It's not a baseball tradition. So the Mets not having one, to me, isn't some sort of, like, crazy concept they for a while decided to do, you know, David Wright, like, because there's certain people that you felt like were the face of the organization, but I don't. You don't.

[Don Hahn]

I don't see why you don't have one, though.

[Alan Hahn]

Really?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. I just don't see the downside. I feel like from a leadership standpoint, I'd always.

[Alan Hahn]

Then you have the players vote because.

[Don Hahn]

Sure, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

The problem is, though, that can cause a problem in the road.

[Don Hahn]

So what if you like.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, what if it's a split vote?

[Don Hahn]

There's a. There's a lot of conversation that maybe Lindor and Soto don't get along with each other. So what if you put it to a vote? It's 50. 50. Lindor Soto.

[Alan Hahn]

You can't. Half the room. That's my cap.

[Don Hahn]

Or, you know, you got 25 guys in there and, you know, 12 go. Soto, 13 go. If everybody universally believes it, I'm with you. But if there's a bit of a divide, then don't do it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

That seems so like, small time to not be able to power through that if it goes down. Well, this is. We're talking about professional athletes.

[Alan Hahn]

These are ego.

[Don Hahn]

Soto had a problem with Lindor, and Lindor is the captain. And Soto's like, I should be the captain. Why cause trouble?

[Alan Hahn]

Wasn't Brandon Nimmo also somebody that was trying to push his way into being a leader? He was Johnny Russell and he was a, you know, a Met that felt.

[Don Hahn]

Like he was born. There were people who say, why isn't Pete? He's the best player on the team. He's a forever Matt. Yeah, but why give it to Lindor, who came over from Cleveland. But do you want to have that conversation? Like, boy, a big boy team. You should be able to. By the way, you. You can only have one captain. It can't be like, unless you want. Unless you really want to play Reindeer Games. Yeah. I mean, in football, everyone plays this, right? Well, because they all have. You've got the captain, the offense, defense, special teams. You know, like, usually that's how it works. Not. I'm going to make. Oh, there's three captains. Yay. I know, but let's get together your own rules, right? Some teams have no captains. Right. And I respect the fact that Steve Cohen's made up rule is, you know what? No captain.

[Alan Hahn]

Do fans care about this that much?

[Don Hahn]

No, but this isn't about fans. They would care. I'll tell you what. You know, I don't think it's about fan.

[Alan Hahn]

Don's right. It's it. What him saying that does amplify is the rumors of the room not really being right.

[Don Hahn]

That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm saying this is bad, not good. But this is what you do to try to create a better atmosphere. I think getting through it is better at. That's easier said than done. When you got guaranteed contracts, guys locked in, it's a whole new team.

[Advertisement Voice]

You tried to.

[Don Hahn]

Let's be honest here, guys you traded, the guys you could trade.

[Alan Hahn]

There you go.

[Don Hahn]

You didn't sign the guys that were free agents. Some guys you're locked into. Right? So how do you make it work? Right? And that's how you make it work. So I respect Steve for doing it. But big, Let me just say, big boy leadership in an organization, no matter how much people are getting paid, there are certain organizations that have a certain level of cachet that they say, this is how things are and you're gonna. And you're gonna get in line. Cause I'm sorry, none of the Lindor and Soto. Neither is Aaron Judge. Neither is a Michael Jordan. Neither is a guy that cannot be spoken to as if they've accomplished everything. No. Why? First of all, you don't have to have a captain. It doesn't have to be designated. Why cause a problem if you don't have to.

[Alan Hahn]

There you go.

[Don Hahn]

We don't have to have a captain. You're right. It's just an indicator that there may be problems.

[Alan Hahn]

I see what you're saying, though.

[Don Hahn]

I just don't know what you're saying. But he just said ever there'll never be. So there's gonna be times where it's all kumbaya. Still no cap.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't love that.

[Don Hahn]

Now if Hal Steinbrenner had done that, if Hal Steinbrenner had done that, Yankee fans would flip out because being a captain of the Yankees is a thing. And they would be like, oh, they'd feel bad for Aaron Judge, who clearly is the best player. But is Lindor the best player? Soto's supposed to be the best player, but a lot of people think Lindor is the better leader.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Before that, it was like, well, Pete Alonso is the forever Met. He's been like, you already. See, there's a problem. I just like it.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what it is? Answer.

[Don Hahn]

But.

[Alan Hahn]

But. But it does. I'm with you, Peter. It does suggest that. Which is why they had to really shake up the room. As much as Stearns denied it, as much as Mendoza denied it, it definitely tells you that what we thought about last year's team is true, that they had some issues in the room that caused. That kept them from being as competitive as they should be.

[Don Hahn]

Michael corrects me. Nettles, Randolph and Guidry were captains after Munson. But I'll also say a long. I guess Guidry was the last of the three. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

That's still like a long time before, because it was. Jeter was 2003. So you're still, like, talking like 15 years.

[Alan Hahn]

And who was captain and after Gidri left, who was going to be like, who was going to.

[Don Hahn]

Guidry is a captain. Mattingly, how do you make a pitcher a captain? Honestly, it's. Yo. Yo.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, because he thought he was a respected person.

[Don Hahn]

By the way, I disagree with Don on that. Don said that a lot. I can.

[Alan Hahn]

You don't have to be a. I play every day.

[Don Hahn]

John Franco, you're in the bullpen for Dallas. It doesn't matter.

[Alan Hahn]

He's in the clubhouse.

[Don Hahn]

But are you there every day?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, he is.

[Don Hahn]

I don't like it.

[Alan Hahn]

And he.

[Don Hahn]

Why can't I not like things? Why can't I not like it? No, you're allowed to not like it, but you saying that's a reason is, to me, silly. No, I think it's. If you're in the room, you think they're going, hey, buddy, you don't play every play. You have to wear your fakta uniform every day. You're prepared to play every day. All right, let's go out there and get him. I'm going to go to the bullpen. It's not. That's not. Let's go out there and get him. I'm going to finish my CrossFit puzzle. I'm not pitching for another four days. I think it makes more sense for an everyday player. He. He's with them every day. Every game they're there. It's so ridiculous. I like it. You cannot like it.

[Alan Hahn]

But it's ridiculous to like it if they're elite.

[Don Hahn]

It's about the mentality, it's the personality.

[Alan Hahn]

That's why upholding the standard leadership doesn't.

[Don Hahn]

Have to come from the best player either.

[Alan Hahn]

CC Sabathia pitched once every six days, but he was a, he was known leader of that clubhouse.

[Don Hahn]

The guy. He was the guy.

[Alan Hahn]

The guy.

[Don Hahn]

I don't like it. I think it's silly. I think you're, I think this thought is silly. I, I. Does it always have to be the, the guy who's out there every day? It's baseball. It doesn't have to be anything. That's why it was ridiculous. You have to have, you have to have some representation as a. You don't necessarily have to have a captain in hockey, but somebody's got to wear an A, Somebody's got to skate over to the official when there's something going on. So when they made Roberto Luongo the captain in Vancouver, it was reindeer games because he was the damn goalie. Stupid.

[Alan Hahn]

Can't even have an A on your, on your jersey as a goalie.

[Don Hahn]

So it's, it was dumb that Vancouver did that. I know. Listen, John Franco, salt of the earth, he's a leader. He's a great guy. I just think that there's a separation between pitch. Would you make a kicker a leader, even if he was the vocal leader? Be like, no, he's a kicker. Stop it. But we know. But kickers aren't thought of how pitchers are. No. Because they're way more important. But that's not close. There is a separation between. There's the pitchers and there's that click, and they're kind of with each other and they're hanging out in the bullpen. There's a separation there. I don't ask ball players. They're sending pitchers that are pitching the next day, sometimes ahead.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, come on. Garrett Cole is in that dugout and he's barking the whole game when he's not pitched.

[Don Hahn]

He's a leader. If I was, if I was the owner, I would have be like Steve Cole. As long as I own this team, no pitcher would be a captain.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay. All right. For the Mets, it can work because you don't have anybody anyway. That's an obvious.

[Don Hahn]

And it can work for the Yankees too, but it's just become more of a thing.

[Alan Hahn]

Tradition.

[Don Hahn]

It's a tradition. But you're not wearing a C. No. When they put, I'm telling you, it was so cringe when they put the C on Keith, I was like, oh, my.

[Alan Hahn]

Don't do that Is, Yeah, that's a very, no offense. That's a Mets thing to do.

[Don Hahn]

Well, how am I supposed to not. Well, first of all, I'M not. I'm not the Mets. But how are they supposed to not take that point? He's like, that's a Met thing to do. So you're saying it's yo yo. Which makes sense because they're a yo yo organization.

[Alan Hahn]

There you go.

[Don Hahn]

And they decided, don't take offense that I called you a yo yo.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, no, I didn't call you a yo yo.

[Don Hahn]

No, that's what I'm saying.

[Alan Hahn]

The team's a yo yo.

[Don Hahn]

The Mets. I lead the charge of yo yo.

[Alan Hahn]

Who's going to iron.

[Don Hahn]

Honestly, one of my first rants. If you are a die hard ESPN radio fan, you know, I don't think they have him in the archives anymore because I really believe Joey Salvius stole stuff out of the Enco. When he left. I talked about the mets. They, in 1975, they had a metal the donkey. Metal the donkey. So basically their. Their mascot was a jackass. You know, Joe Pignettano's tomato patch. He had tomato patch in the bullpen. They were really committed to wedding because he's. Where's Joe? Joe's bordering the.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it's.

[Don Hahn]

Believe me, I love the Mets. All right? But there's a lot of yo yo there. Oh, of course there's a lot of yo yo. But you know what? They're my yo yo.

[Alan Hahn]

But I.

[Don Hahn]

But I can hear you. I don't need you telling me they're yo Listen, I know they're.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, I'm a Jets fan, all right? I can relate.

[Don Hahn]

Well, the jets aren't yo yo. They're circus. Lose.

[Alan Hahn]

They're just circus.

[Don Hahn]

But they, but they don't.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, no, Don.

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

The jets find amazing ways to look because they're dumb.

[Don Hahn]

The Mets made these decisions think because they were trying to. They were trying to sell a product pre winning like. So Casey Spangle was hired 70 something years old. Just try to kind of stir it up.

[Alan Hahn]

It started when they began as a franchise and they first called themselves the Titans. Why did they choose that as their nickname, the Titans?

[Don Hahn]

I don't remember.

[Alan Hahn]

Because in mythology, Titans kill giants. So with that in mind.

[Don Hahn]

That'S how.

[Alan Hahn]

You are getting started already, little brother.

[Don Hahn]

Right? I get that.

[Alan Hahn]

Just because. Let's come up with a name. But I think this is a good one. You know why? Because they killed Giants. And everybody's like, and they did it. And it's like, wait, set the tone. That's all you need to know.

[Don Hahn]

I know, but then they did.

[Alan Hahn]

They were birthed into it that way.

[Don Hahn]

I don't look at the jets as Yo Yo. I just look at them as bad and not good at what they do. Like the Mets genuinely chose to be yo yo. What. When you look at. When you look at Mr. Met Go. If you ever go to City Field, swing by the Mets hall of Fame.

[Alan Hahn]

How do you feel about that?

[Don Hahn]

They have the first ever Mr. Met. The. The Marco and Jalen got scared.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. It's horrified.

[Don Hahn]

Plaster of Paris out. Terrifying. That's not great.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And then. And why have married. Why does there have to be a Mismet.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it just.

[Don Hahn]

But that's kind of because Casey Stengel came in, said, listen, we're going to lose a thousand games. The Yankees are going to win World Series every year. We got to try to win some people.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, you mean it's like Mark Cuban.

[Don Hahn]

So we're going to just.

[Alan Hahn]

They don't care about losing, but they.

[Don Hahn]

Just want to have experience. They knew. They knew that they were an expansion team. And this was pre Vegas Golden Knights. They gave expansion teams like zero shot. You're going to lose 100 games.

[Alan Hahn]

None shot.

[Don Hahn]

Eat it.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

Right. That's just the way it was going to be. And they knew it was going to be a while. It didn't take that long. In 69, they're winning the World Series. Right. But they still always embrace their inner Yo Yo. That's just who they are. Embrace the inner Yo Yo. That's our show. That's just a losing franchise. If the jets ever started winning, I don't think there'd be any Yo Yo. But even if the Mets won the World Series this year, there'd still be an underlying.

[Alan Hahn]

Even when they were. There was still yo yo happening with the Jets.

[Don Hahn]

No, because when the Mets were in the World Series, God loves Steve Phillips. I consider him a friend. Thought it was a good idea to have the Baja Man.

[Alan Hahn]

I agree.

[Don Hahn]

Dancing and singing and doing whatever the heck they did. Roof.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

That's because that's their inner Yo Yo. And this is the World Series. The inner Yo Yo. The jets don't have an inner Yo Yo. They have an inner loser they got to get rid of. Once they get rid of it, they're fine. Well, the Mets have the inner Yo. I don't know. I don't. I just. I don't. I don't agree with you.

[Alan Hahn]

Again.

[Don Hahn]

You just think that one day the jets are going to change. It's going to get better because they'll like how they're owned by Yo Yo.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

They could change their logo to be Yo.

[Alan Hahn]

That's how they change.

[Don Hahn]

It could be the New York Yo Yos. I know. What are you talking about? Because they're bad at football. No, but if they ever got good at football, there'd be no issue. But they won't ever. But the Mets have been good at baseball and still have a little yo yo.

[Alan Hahn]

And the jets have been good at football and still have an.

[Don Hahn]

Have they really? Have they really?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes. They were at the conference championship games.

[Don Hahn]

They were there.

[Alan Hahn]

They went there in 98.

[Don Hahn]

You're being nice. I like what you're doing.

[Alan Hahn]

Years a guy wrote on a napkin, I don't want to be the yo yo franchise.

[Don Hahn]

But I don't know. He listen, he. He wouldn't even spell out. He didn't. Wouldn't even say, but this is what I resigned as HC of the NYJ Yo Yo. Yeah, that's right. He had written Y o. Y o.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what he might have put.

[Don Hahn]

LOL before there was no more even then. And the Mets are actually good then because that was a record around 2000. They went to the World Series. If he had put on his napkin I resign his HC of the Yo Yo. They'd be like, why is he resigning from the Met? Doesn't make any sense. All right, let's get back to the fall. This is a great debate.

[Alan Hahn]

My team sucks more than yours, right?

[Don Hahn]

No, but my team. But I'm just saying it has nothing to do with the baseball because even if The Mets won 162 games and won the World Series. Did not lose a game.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

There'd still be a little ounce of yo they chew it. They chose it.

[Alan Hahn]

Mr. Met would be on the float going down the canyon of the air.

[Don Hahn]

That's what I'm saying. Mr. Met.

[Alan Hahn]

What are we doing?

[Don Hahn]

I think that what you miss when Jesse Orozco gets tackled after he gets the last out of 86. Where's underneath that pile was Mr. Met and Mrs. Matt might have been there too.

[Alan Hahn]

And what do we cut to now that we won't have this anymore? When Diaz came out and you had the, the. The Timmy Trumpets thing, right? What did they cut to? Dopey Mr. Met with glasses trumpet.

[Don Hahn]

They Because Peter back me up. A badass moment turned into a cartoon. They had a moment. The Mets were good. Diaz was on fire. Oh yeah, Timmy Trumpet. That song was great. People are interested. And then the Mets had to just get the fat hands in and then invite them to come in. And then they do it in a non save situation and then they tank after because they Just can't stop to get the. They got to get the yo yo hands on it. They can't. They can't help themselves. But. But, but meanwhile the Jets. But they're still good. But meanwhile the jets flew all their brass out to beg Aaron Rodgers to be quarterback. Yeah. He promptly tears his leg to shreds and then they unceremoniously kick him out and say, we don't want you.

[Alan Hahn]

But they had him fly in.

[Don Hahn]

No, but the bat flew in though. But none of the yo yo affects the play. Well, how can you say that? The Baja men maybe created a bad vibe, but the Baja men performing on top of the dugout didn't affect the World Series.

[Alan Hahn]

Played golf with a radio guy because.

[Don Hahn]

The head coach wasn't good at what he did.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, they drafted a guy number two. And the head coach wore a shirt about Mike White, who was the undrafted third quarterback that suddenly became the starter.

[Don Hahn]

And all the players loved it. Did you forget the other coach who had a tattoo with his wife wearing a jersey at the quarterback?

[Alan Hahn]

That's not Yo Yo Yo.

[Don Hahn]

Sorry. I know it's your guy.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no.

[Don Hahn]

We love Yo Yo. But you're also talking about the. Over the last 50 years, the highlight of the franchise. That's the best part.

[Alan Hahn]

Which makes it all connected.

[Don Hahn]

It's possible that decisions like that affected them winning those games to win the Super Bowl. I'm saying their inner yo yo doesn't affect the product on the field. It's a nice thought you have. They're also. They're also not very good.

[Alan Hahn]

There's so many debates.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just telling you.

[Alan Hahn]

So many debates. We could go call it for the rest of the show.

[Don Hahn]

I got to tell you, we've this show again. We're frustrated.

[Alan Hahn]

We're hitting all our house right now.

[Don Hahn]

A lot of things are happening and zero.

[Alan Hahn]

We had a meeting.

[Don Hahn]

I was in early today.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm feeling like we're not.

[Don Hahn]

None of this was brought up in the middle.

[Alan Hahn]

I feel like we are in that. That groove that the warriors got into. That's.

[Don Hahn]

That's what I started to feel for you.

[Alan Hahn]

It's. I'm feeling. This is like Splash brothers happening right now. Can't beat us.

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks very much for having me, Michelle.

[Don Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

This is Jacob thinking Captain, my captain. I love the early 70s. We're like, you know what? I'm gonna make it 11 minutes and it's gonna be so good. It's still gonna be in the top 40. Now they're gonna destroy it. Make this 11 minute song two and a half minutes. But you know what, I appreciate the effort. I love this song anyway.

[Alan Hahn]

And it was always about being out on the water somewhere or being like in exotic places. It was very imaginary.

[Don Hahn]

You know, they made an effort back then. That's why I say all the songs.

[Alan Hahn]

Are creating constant drama.

[Don Hahn]

Constant drama. All right, let's get back to the busy phones. A lot of people want to talk about everything that we've talked about, which has been a lot. And he's been on hold for a while. Let's go to Brian. He's in Staten Island. You're on ESPN New York. Hi, Brian. Hey, Don, Alan, Peter. Big fan, big fan of all you guys a long time. And Don, I especially want to thank you. A couple fraud Fridays ago, I was the Yankees Patriots fan you said wasn't a fraud, which ended up being the highlight of super bowl weekend. So thank you for that. You got it, Brian. All right, really quick on judge. I had an issue with his comments, but I kind of read into them a different way than you guys did. Okay. I didn't think that. I didn't think that they were about new additions. I thought that they were him needling the front office about why did it take so long to bring back Bellinger and Grisham? Because in his mind, Grisham was the qo. Grisham was right away. But I thought the Same thing, Brian, because he kept talking about Bellinger and we did have to wait a long time for Bellinger. Agree. But he's. But in like, I guess I should say, I should say even Grisham the time wise. Yes. But I got the vibe from Judge that, you know, he would have preferred instead of a qualifying offer, like bring Grisham back on a longer term deal. I guess overall, whether Grisham or not, the vibe that I got from him was more, hey, I thought the team we had last year was good enough to win. And I didn't understand why they weren't bringing these guys back while other teams were. I thought the same thing. But if you listen to the cut Brian, he mentions about we waited so long for Bellinger and I'm seeing all of these pieces go someplace else. Meaning he wanted those pieces to come to the Yankees. He felt that the fact that they waited so long to sign Bellinger, they missed out on some additions. I mean, listen, listen to the, listen to the comment again. It was brutal. You know, I'm like, I see a lot of free agents out there. I see a lot of guys that, you know, like the Bellingers, the Grishams, Goldschmidt's, like, let's sign these guys right now and then start adding more pieces. See, start. That's it. Start adding more pieces, which they never did.

[Alan Hahn]

So bring these guys back so we can do more business. Not wait on these guys to a point where now we can't do business because we waited.

[Don Hahn]

Exactly. But he totally said it that way. To be protective and not have his boys think that he wasn't talking about them. The truth is.

[Alan Hahn]

Thank you.

[Don Hahn]

Respectfully, he wasn't talking about them. He would have been fine losing them. He just wanted. Well, not Bellinger, maybe. Not Bellinger. I know, we know he feels strongly about that. But Grisham, he probably would have been fine with it. He's just trying to make the point he wanted more. But I'm going to be nice. Here's the thing. All I'm saying is either you're all in or you're all out. I still think he half assed it. Right. Goes in, makes the comment, but he backs up his team. So you're. So we're sitting here debating it. If you really wanted to send the message, hey, if you want to send a message, go talk to Hal and Brian and give it to them. You don't have to go public with it. But the better statement would have been to be all in on either one. Either be all in. And we should have made some changes. We're not good enough. This is. I'm not going to tolerate this as the captain of this team or say, I love this team, we're ready to win. I love this. But he kind of played both sides of the aisle, which makes both statements weak. Didn't go not all in on his team and didn't go all in after Brian Cashman either. That's the. That. That's the issue. Brendan wants to talk about this. He's in upstate New York. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, man? Hey, fellows. Nice to talk to you again. It's kind of a little awkward, but Brian pretty much said everything that I wanted to say. I kind of read it a little differently than you guys. But after you played the clip and kind of explained your side of it, again, I do understand what you're saying, so I'll just flip my. What I was going to talk about real quick. Go ahead. Someone who doesn't watch the NBA a ton. Like, I am a fan, but, you know, baseball is my thing. I actually thought the strike stars, that whole gig, I thought that was actually really fun. And if the guys take it seriously from the beginning to the end, and then you add like a 1v1 tournament like the females are doing, I think that would be awesome. Well, if you get them the care, then you go back to East West.

[Alan Hahn]

Thank you. You know, but hey, Don. And what he said, I agree with. But think about how sad it is right now. Maybe I'll get up tomorrow and I'm definitely talking about this. Think about this. If the guys just play hard.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

This is where we're at now with professional athletes. Please, please care. When you are playing this game. Please care.

[Don Hahn]

It's sad.

[Alan Hahn]

That's mad.

[Don Hahn]

And listen, I still thought it was awful, but whatever. It got 8.8 million viewers when they combined everything, the app, Telemundo, all that stuff. Wait, wait, real quick. Also, what time did they start the game? It said five. It was way later than that because it was after the Olympics. That's why I'm not buying what's going on. Why are they do. Why did All Star Saturday start so early? Well, because it's out west. I know, but it's all around the Olympics, Right?

[Alan Hahn]

They had to be off the air at a certain time so they can get the Olympics back on primetime.

[Don Hahn]

And what? And it was actually very smart when they did because the reason they got an 8.8 million people watching is because they came off The Olympics that did 27 million. That's a great lead in. So I don't buy in. I don't buy into their number because anything's gonna do a decent rating when you're coming off. 27 million people are on NBC already on a Sunday afternoon, and there's nothing else going on once the Olympics are over. All right, I'll watch the All Star Game. So let's not get. Let's not get crazy on that. I thought that was a little, little much. Mateo's in New Jersey. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Mateo? Oh, hey, guys. You don't even see, like, the karma the jets have is even yo, yo. We created Tom Brady. Does everybody forget that?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes. No, I'll never.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that was just an accident.

[Alan Hahn]

But who else does that happen to?

[Don Hahn]

Who else does that happen? Thank you, Super Bowl. Yeah, but they're just bad at what they do.

[Alan Hahn]

But it also. Bad things happen to them because they're bad.

[Don Hahn]

Bad things happen to bad people.

[Alan Hahn]

Aaron Rodgers, four plays in. Having his Achilles snap is so.

[Don Hahn]

I think we're misunderstanding my yoga. All right, here we go.

[Alan Hahn]

All right.

[Don Hahn]

I guess. I guess the thing is the. The jets aren't awkward. They're not nerdy. They're just bad. The Mets, even when they're really good, there's always a side of just. They're very nerdy. They. They're very yo, yo. Again, you're looking at yo, yo. I'm not saying it to be pejorative.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

All right. No, I'm saying it. That they. They do kind of yo, yo. They think differently in that sense.

[Alan Hahn]

So one is. So one's a nerd, the other's a doof? Is that what you're saying?

[Don Hahn]

That's tough. I. I just.

[Alan Hahn]

The jets are just doofus. They never get it right. They just complete the.

[Don Hahn]

The Mets are the team that's got the pocket protector. Right?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

The tape between. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They. The. The jets don't even function. They walk out of the house naked because they don't know how to get dressed. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So that's what I said.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

One is a complete doofus.

[Don Hahn]

I see what you're saying. This is a. I'm saying the Mets have made a conscious choice to be yo, yo. The jets have not made a conscious choice to be losers. This is like in. In Judaism, on the four questions, they. They. There's like the why son? The wicked son. The jets, you're saying are the. The. The. The son that doesn't even know how to ask a question. Right? Is that what you're saying? Yes. Beyond dumb. They don't even conceive of how to ask question. The Mets might be super smart. They just choose to be this way. They choose to put on that outfit, right? The jets put on the outfit because they don't. They don't know how to dress. They're going to the big party and they're like, you know what shirt I'm gonna wear? My who farted shirt. I think the ladies are gonna love it. And they walk. How cool is this?

[Alan Hahn]

They all go to the party and they wear the T shirt, tuxedo. I'm ironic.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Only because it was on last night. I just. I was. I was surfing the channels. Step Brothers. And no, it was Django Unchained.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay? I remember different.

[Don Hahn]

When they're. They're getting them clothes because they say you need to be the Jamie Foxx guy or Django. It's like you need to be in character. You get to choose your costume. He's like, I get to choose what I wear. And he comes out with that. That blue suit with the scarf. Like that was his choice, right? And that's. It was. It was Yo Yo. Right? It was. That didn't work for him. It was, but that was his choice. That's. The Mets choose to be this way. The jets, they're too dumb to choose. They're too dumb to choose. They're bad. They're bad at what they do. But if the jets ever got good, they wouldn't make conscious decisions to be yo yo. How could they? You wouldn't have a coach that leads them to the Super Bowl. And there's a tomato patch on the other side of the end zone that they talk about, right? They wouldn't decide that they're going to have their mascot be a jackass at the Super Bowl. They would just win the super bowl and finally figure it out. It's a conscious decision because the Mets knew they couldn't compete with the Yankees. So they wanted to try to win over younger fans. Brought Casey Stengel in the placards. Remember Casey Stengel? Metzis. Metzis. It was all yo yo. Because they wanted to try to. And it worked. The Mets are one of the great expansion teams of all time. They win a championship just eight years later, and they built an amazing fan base in the shadow of one of the greatest run franchises in the history of sports. It really is a miracle. And it's worked. It was a conscious decision. The Yankees have. The jets have not done anything consciously. They've been unconscious for 50 years. Impressive.

[Alan Hahn]

So dire view of a wimpy kid. The Mets are. Greg, the jets are rowing.

[Don Hahn]

I'm out.

[Alan Hahn]

Come on, you have kids.

[Don Hahn]

I've heard of it. I know. It's Declan's favorite book.

[Alan Hahn]

Everybody listening right now. You get Greg is the main character.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

He's kind of like small, nerdy, like.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

That's the Mets.

[Don Hahn]

That's the Mets.

[Alan Hahn]

And yet some he finds a way to figure out. But he's always trying to strive. And the Jets. O'Reilly, which is his friend who has like a bowl cut and he's, you know, he's just a disaster, right? And he embarrasses him all the time.

[Don Hahn]

Is there a character in it that's dead? Because then that would be the judge. Let's go to Manny and Flushing. You're on espn, New York. What's up, Manny? Hey, guys. How y' all doing? Good. You? I'm good, man. Listen, before I will get to my. I want to give my condolences to Robert Duvall, Jesse Jackson, and now, recently, the departed Doug Moe. Yeah, I didn't know about that. That's. He must have been old.

[Alan Hahn]

But that's trifecta.

[Don Hahn]

88 years old and crying hard. I hope you're aware about that New ABA documentary is lit.

[Alan Hahn]

There's a new. When did that come out? If there's a new one on Prime, I'm Prime.

[Don Hahn]

This. This recently.

[Alan Hahn]

But that's a series, right? That's not right.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Yes, yes. I'm on that. Yes.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, honestly. And I want to ask you this. For the NBA, which team do you think not even Knicks should have a. A complete run towards the end of the playoffs, towards the end of the regular season?

[Alan Hahn]

What do you mean, a complete run? Like, what do you mean?

[Don Hahn]

Like, you know, going through, like, lots of winning streaks. Like, which team do you think that, you know, in the second half?

[Alan Hahn]

So who's the team in the second or the other side of the All Star break that you think could go on a run where they're just going to tear off some wins? I'm going to go Cleveland Cavaliers.

[Don Hahn]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

They have the. One of the easiest schedules remaining. Absolute joke of a schedule.

[Don Hahn]

Really?

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah. And they. They've got hard and they're feeling better. They've been playing a lot better. Like, I would keep an eye on that team. Yeah, I'd keep an eye on that team.

[Don Hahn]

And you talked about the tough schedule. The.

[Alan Hahn]

Nick said the first 10 out of the break here are just it's a gauntlet that if they get through, then their schedule gets easy.

[Don Hahn]

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

Your podcasts take you up until seven at six o' clock, we got ENN. Let's get to the calls on 1-800-919-3776 and talk to Mike in the Bronx. You're on ESPN New York. Hi, how you guys doing? I was calling about the comments by Steve Cohen and the reporter was like, I think Don, maybe Han too, was kind of making fun of the reporter for being dense like he wasn't listening to Cohen. But Cohen did. He did leave the opening. He did go back and forth a little bit like there's going to be no captain. Well, I believe in letting players sort it out themselves. Well, okay, then if the players sort it out themselves, then they call the captain.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Well, yeah, no, that's not.

[Alan Hahn]

He doesn't mean you name the captain. It's just the players will decide who's the leader.

[Don Hahn]

I think that this is why I think there was a rift last year of just like, oh, then the captain gets to be the one that decides who's right or wrong. Instead of the room just kind of working through it. He wants to, he wants them to all work through it instead of looking at one person and saying, okay, Francisco, what do we do Here. Okay, Juan, what do we do here? He wants them all to kind of work it out instead of feeling the pressure or having one player feel the pressure of having to make the decisions. And I get it, Mike, because the one thing I could be all wet on.

[Alan Hahn]

This.

[Don Hahn]

This just popped into my mind. It feels like it's one of the more eclectic rosters. Baseball, Right. Hockey's up there, too, where you got different languages to get over. Like, you could see it being very clicky, right? Where the Latino players are kind of hanging out and you've got the American players kind of hang out. It feels like there could be, like, football. Everybody kind of comes from the same atmosphere. They all were in college, so they're all kind of on the same page a little bit. Baseball, true. It feels like there could be different political views. There could be different ways the game is played.

[Alan Hahn]

The baseball clubhouse might be the biggest melting pot in sports.

[Don Hahn]

Hockey would be up there, too, but.

[Alan Hahn]

But it's Europeans. You know what I mean? The difference is basically Canadians, Americans are all different.

[Don Hahn]

Right? But I can have Latinos. I can have Asians. I can have Americans.

[Alan Hahn]

That's what I mean about baseball. Baseball, you're having. I mean, you're talking about all over the world, different languages type stuff.

[Don Hahn]

Right? Like the games played differently in different places. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And that's true, too, Right. Style of play.

[Don Hahn]

It's. I listen. There may be. The reason I like it is because it's not something like you have to have a captain. He's not going that crazy. But I kind of. The way I look at it is whether you like it or not. To me, this reads into. There was a problem in that room. It's probably one of the reasons why they partially blew it up. And he wants to try to avoid it being.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Agree.

[Don Hahn]

Let's go to Joe Oceanside. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Joe? Hi, Joe. Oh, he had a good point, too.

[Alan Hahn]

Come on, Joe.

[Don Hahn]

I want you. Joe. Joe. Or yo. He said he was going to boycott the Giants if Tish was still the ope. The owner on opening day.

[Alan Hahn]

Hmm. Are you calling fraud?

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's a whole separate issue. Oh, look. Whether he'd actually do it. But. But do we know enough about what? I don't think we know enough. I will tell you this. I think it's a non issue because if it ever came up that he was a pedophile, there's no way he's the only Giant zero chance. So we wouldn't have to make that decision. Right. The question is if all they find out is that Epstein supplied him prostate that he solicited. But it depends. But it. But it also, I will say this. It depends. A. That's obviously bad enough and you might not want someone who does that.

[Alan Hahn]

Of course.

[Don Hahn]

But also, when did he do it? Because if it's after a time when it was very clear to people who Epstein was and you still thought it was a good idea to interact with, I think according. That's. That's bad. Bad. According to the timeline of the emails, it was like five years after it was known that he was a. Then that's a problem.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that is a problem.

[Don Hahn]

That's a big problem. And I can understand in other. I just want everybody to know that in other countries, if you end up deeply associated with the Epstein files, I don't mean like your name's mentioned in email, but like, if you end up like one of these situations where you're deeply involved, people are just losing everything. They're like royalty is losing their status as royalty here. It's like, well, let's break it down. What's the time? I don't know, man. He was. He. If you were emailing back and forth with Jeffrey Epstein himself about women, I gotta tell you, buddy, I'm running the company. You're gone. And that's why I think ultimately, once you get over the legal hurdles, whether it's the NFL, whether it's John Mer himself, you got to have a process. He will be out by opening.

[Alan Hahn]

You got to have a process.

[Don Hahn]

You think he will be.

[Alan Hahn]

I think unfortunately, that's a real thing. But I'm not. I'm with you, Don. I. I do think so.

[Don Hahn]

We all think he. If knowing now. We all. We all are saying he probably should.

[Alan Hahn]

Be gone from this team once they have to go through all the. The whole process.

[Don Hahn]

Well, you don't want to get sued.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, well, you can't afford to get sued.

[Don Hahn]

I think the timeline. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong. Epstein became a sex offender in 08. These emails were 2013.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Don Hahn]

I think, Donna, you're not great at math, but I think you're doing the work right there. All right, so five years.

[Alan Hahn]

Gruden's whole thing with the league has to do with those emails that leaked, right?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And things that he said. And he's fighting the. So again, you. You know, it's going to be a battle. This is.

[Don Hahn]

Is there a way. But is there a way that could prove I knew him?

[Alan Hahn]

I did Nothing.

[Don Hahn]

But I. I didn't. I didn't know he was a sex offender. I didn't know. I'm ignorant. I'm stupid. Nobody told me. I didn't. I didn't keep up on current affairs. And he. You could even. You could even argue, though, once this thing started becoming a known national issue, you should have come to us and said, hey, I had interaction with this guy. I didn't know what I was doing. Now, remember, he waited and got caught.

[Alan Hahn]

It's owners who have to out him. People think that again, that Roger has this king status. That's not how it works.

[Don Hahn]

No, no, no. He's not the boss.

[Alan Hahn]

He works for the owners.

[Don Hahn]

Now, let me ask you this.

[Alan Hahn]

Owners would have to come together. He would have to lead that. And that's how that would have to go.

[Don Hahn]

It's interesting that we're commenting on a caller that never was on the air, but I think he wants to bring something up here.

[Alan Hahn]

What's up?

[Don Hahn]

Who I feel truly bad for are his kids, who also have a stake in this. That's a good point. They shouldn't be guilty of their father's crime. Maybe they didn't know anything about their dad. So can you tell Tish, you're out. Your kids now take over ownership of the team. Is that enough for people? Or is the Tish name so sullied at this point that everybody's gonna be out? And if I'm one of the kids, I'm like, listen, I didn't know what my dad was doing. Now I gotta sell the team I want. Now, listen, they're getting Sterling.

[Alan Hahn]

Anybody in the family, or did they tell him to go?

[Don Hahn]

No, but I think his kids are attached in name, like it's. They're part owners of the team, too. It's like the Tisch family. So they would be forced against their will, possibly, to sell the team. Now they're getting billions of dollars in return. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

Who has the 10%?

[Don Hahn]

Now, is that one of the.

[Alan Hahn]

Is it the Koch brothers?

[Don Hahn]

Koch brothers, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

So if they and the marriage say, we're just going to put that part up for sale and see what we get. And if his kids want to try to bid, that's great. But.

[Don Hahn]

But I.

[Alan Hahn]

Who.

[Don Hahn]

Maybe Anthony could check it. I think they do have a. I think his family has a stake. Yeah, I'm sure forcing the family to sell first.

[Alan Hahn]

And if you do that to cover for anything. Anyway. So I'm sure there's some type of a stipulation.

[Don Hahn]

But why do I have a feeling that even if he's the building's. It says Tisch family.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you'll never see him probably anymore because. No, he would know never to be. He's dug out in public.

[Don Hahn]

But is it right? I'm just asking a question. I'm not even making any kind of declaration here. Is it right that his kids would be forced to sell their ownership of the team because of something. They're dead. Maybe some people feel like the, the.

[Alan Hahn]

The.

[Don Hahn]

The. You know, the sins of the father. Right, sorry. Guilt by association. Yeah. Tish name is so sullied we can't move forward. But. Well, it's not about that. It's that to. To allow the kids to get it is essentially to not punish the father. That's the problem. You have to sort of do take the whole thing. It is interesting. He's already an older guy.

[Alan Hahn]

He's also never really been public. Like when it comes to the Giants. He. I mean, he's been in progress. He rarely speaks.

[Don Hahn]

Right. But he. He is a public figure because of who he is.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes. But I mean, Giants wise, you don't.

[Don Hahn]

It's weird.

[Alan Hahn]

He never is prominent.

[Don Hahn]

It's like suspending an owner. Like, how did that work?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

He can't go to the games.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. Exactly.

[Don Hahn]

It is weird.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I don't want to know how the.

[Alan Hahn]

Sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter.

[Don Hahn]

Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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