Hour 4: A Better Woody Johnson

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 4: A Better Woody Johnson

Release Date: January 28, 2025

In this episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg, hosts Alan Hahn, Don La Greca, and Peter Rosenberg delve deep into the recent developments surrounding New York Jets owner Woody Johnson, dissecting his management style and its impact on the team's performance. The conversation then transitions to an in-depth analysis of the upcoming Rangers versus Hurricanes game, covering team dynamics, recent performances, and playoff implications.

---

Woody Johnson: Striving to Be a Better Owner

The episode opens with Alan Hahn highlighting a pivotal moment from a recent press conference where Woody Johnson addressed criticisms of his ownership. Hahn emphasizes Johnson's acknowledgment of the need for improvement, quoting him at [00:45]:

"Absolutely. I have to look in the mirror and I have to be a better owner and I'm trying to be better."

Skepticism About Johnson's Commitment

Peter Rosenberg expresses skepticism about Johnson's commitment to truly evolving as an owner. At [01:58], he states:

"I don't think he's talking about or realizing what makes him a bad owner. He's saying, 'I'm going to try to be better,' but I want to hear, 'I'm going to let my football people decide what's going on here.'"

Rosenberg criticizes Johnson for not relinquishing control and continuing to involve himself directly in football decisions, which he believes hampers the team's progress.

Historical Context and Comparisons

Don La Greca provides historical context by comparing Johnson's current stance to previous owners like Leo Snyder, noting that attempts to distance oneself from team management often fail to produce lasting change ([02:41]). Rosenberg further contrasts Johnson with John Mara of the New York Giants, suggesting Mara's emotional investment as both a strength and a weakness:

"John's mistake is he thinks like a fan. He gets too emotional about it because this is his team, this is his heritage, this is his family." ([04:10])

Impact on the Jets’ Performance

The hosts discuss the tangible impact of Johnson's management on the Jets' performance. Rosenberg highlights the negative fallout from Johnson’s decision-making, particularly referencing the firing of coach Zebley and its detrimental effects on the team’s cohesion ([07:51]). Hahn echoes this sentiment, pointing out that such decisions have not led to any noticeable improvement:

"Woody Johnson's biggest problem with the Jets is Woody Johnson, and that's never going to get fixed." ([09:35])

La Greca concurs, expressing frustration over the lack of progress:

"The owner's changing his style. He's going to bring in a coach he listens to now. He’s going to take a back seat. It never ends." ([09:45])

Analyzing the Rangers vs. Hurricanes Showdown

Shifting focus from football to hockey, the hosts transition to discussing the imminent game between the New York Rangers and the Carolina Hurricanes. Hahn sets the stage by highlighting the significance of the matchup and recent team performances.

Team Performance and Key Players

Rosenberg provides a comprehensive analysis of both teams' strengths and weaknesses. He commends the Hurricanes for their improved defensive play and offensive contributions, noting:

"All six defensemen are playing well and when they're doing that and then the forwards can do what they do, that's when this Ranger team is on top of their game." ([12:23])

Hahn adds that the Rangers have shown significant improvement since a heartbreaking loss, attributing it to a more cohesive defense and strategic player acquisitions.

Playoff Implications and Strategy

The discussion delves into the playoff implications, with Hahn questioning whether tonight’s game could serve as a pivotal moment for the Rangers:

"Win this game on your home ice and you sort of say, okay, things definitely turned." ([14:02])

Rosenberg emphasizes the urgency, pointing out that with only 32 games remaining after tonight, every point is crucial for playoff positioning:

"You can't afford to lose those now." ([14:58])

Fan Sentiment and Team Morale

La Greca and the hosts touch upon the demoralizing effect of recent losses on Rangers fans, with La Greca lamenting the emotional rollercoaster experienced by season ticket holders. Hahn notes the importance of maintaining team morale despite the pressure:

"At what point does it break you? That's the thing." ([15:09])

Strategic Takeaways and Future Outlook

As the episode progresses, the hosts offer strategic takeaways for both teams. Hahn emphasizes the necessity for the Rangers to capitalize on their defensive improvements and secure crucial wins to bolster their playoff chances. Rosenberg underscores the importance of consistency and strategic play-calling to avoid late-game collapses that have plagued the team.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Alan Hahn ([00:30]): "Woody Johnson said after the press conference yesterday when asked about his role as owner and the criticism that he has been under and he said that he wants to be better."

• Peter Rosenberg ([01:58]): "I don't think he's talking about or realizing what makes him a bad owner."

• Don La Greca ([02:41]): "I hate to say this, Jets fans, I don't think it ever changes."

• Peter Rosenberg ([04:10]): "John's mistake is he thinks like a fan. He gets too emotional about it because this is his team, this is his heritage, this is his family."

• Alan Hahn ([09:35]): "Woody Johnson's biggest problem with the Jets is Woody Johnson, and that's never going to get fixed."

• Don La Greca ([09:45]): "The owner's changing his style. He's going to bring in a coach he listens to now. He's going to take a back seat. It never ends."

• Peter Rosenberg ([12:23]): "All six defensemen are playing well and when they're doing that and then the forwards can do what they do, that's when this Ranger team is on top of their game."

• Alan Hahn ([14:02]): "Win this game on your home ice and you sort of say, okay, things definitely turned."

• Peter Rosenberg ([14:58]): "You can't afford to lose those now."

• Alan Hahn ([15:09]): "At what point does it break you? That's the thing."

---

Conclusion

In this episode, Don, Hahn & Rosenberg provide a critical examination of Woody Johnson's ownership of the New York Jets, questioning his ability to adapt and lead effectively. The hosts argue that Johnson's over-involvement in team decisions has hindered the Jets' progress, drawing comparisons to other NFL owners and their approaches. Transitioning to hockey, the discussion highlights the Rangers' recent improvements and the high stakes of their upcoming game against the Hurricanes, emphasizing the importance of strategic wins for playoff aspirations. The episode underscores the intricate balance owners must maintain between involvement and delegation to foster successful sports franchises.

Transcript

[American Express]

Make your next move with American Express Business Platinum. You'll get five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on amextravel.com plus enjoy access to the American Express Global Lounge collection. And with a welcome offer of 150,000 points, your business can soar to all new heights. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] Business Platinum AmEx Business Platinum built for business by American Express.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, six o'clock hour. Show's flying by. Don Lagreca has the pregame show for the Rangers coming up at 7 o'clock. Rangers and Canes. And we'll get into that in a little bit with you. 800 now with 93776. And of course, everybody with Don Lagreck and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan Hahn. We get to your calls momentarily. But one thing that's kind of I feel like got a little overlooked, at least by us, is something that Woody Johnson said that I think we need to acknowledge. It's a quote I'm going to read to you guys because I don't believe we have the audio of this. So please listen carefully, everyone. Woody Johnson said after the press conference yesterday when asked about his role as owner and the criticism that he has been under and he said that he wants to be better. This is what he said. Absolutely. I have to look in the mirror and I have to be a better owner and I'm trying to be better. What do we feel like? Do we feel like him? Like I, you know, epiphany might be a strong word here, but that he does acknowledge that instead of maybe pushing back about it, you know, Jerry Jones will push back on all that kind of stuff about criticism of him. For Woody Johnson to say, no, no, no, I have to be better and I'm going to try. I'm trying to be better. I know I have to be better. Does that mean anything to either of you?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No. And the reason for that is I don't think he's talking about or realizing what makes him a bad owner. He's, he's saying, I'm going to try to be better. I'm going to try to be more knowledgeable. What I want to hear is I'm not going to butt in. I'm going to let my football people decide what's going on here. And I'm not going to be the one that's going to fire a coach because I'm trying to add a spark which doesn't the NFL. So, Peter, if he was really want to be a better Owner, he'd say, listen, I'm going to own the team, but I'm going to let my football people be the football people. Then I get excited. But when he says, I want to be a better owner, it makes me feel like, yeah, I'm going to try to be better at football. I don't need you to be better at football. I need you to get out of the football.

[Don Lagreca]

Well, the sad part is Snyder once even took the step Don saying, I remember when Snyder was like, I'm going to back out. I'm going to let people do their job. I hate to say this, jets fans, I don't think it ever changes.

[Alan Hahn]

Does. Does he Let me add one more quote.

[Don Lagreca]

Okay, add a quote, maybe.

[Alan Hahn]

So again, asked how he can improve as an owner, and then again, Woody Johnson referenced to the hired Aaron Glenn. He hired Darren Mugi. He called them the two leaders of this team. And then he said, that's part of it. The second is just to have. I've got to have patience or whatever. I've got to let them evolve into these positions, which I think they will. But he said, like, I have to have patience. So he's again admitting that he did run out of patience, that he was. And it's almost like what John Marrow was saying. Like, I can't keep having these knee jerk reactions when things don't instantly click and I gotta let people work. Now, I think Woody Johnson let Joe Douglas work. He gave him plenty of time. Right. I just think that Woody Johnson is sensing that he's getting impatient and he can't let that happen this time with these two guys because it's clear he's 77 years old. Let's see, he's sick of losing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Absolutely. But unfortunately, that was the famous quote from Leon Hess when they hired Rich Kotite. Yeah, I'm tired of losing. Well, you know, didn't hire somebody that.

[Alan Hahn]

He brought in Bill Parcel, but at.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That press conference was like laughing. I remember that wasn't after he brought Barcells in there. That would have made sense. But Kotite didn' work out. I listen, I want him to be better, but better to me is kind of laying out. Same thing with John Mara. Like he's too involved, he's too emotional with his decisions. I guess that's the difference between John and Woody. Like John's mistake is he thinks like a fan. He gets too emotional about it because this is his team, this is his heritage, this is his family. Woody, like, fancies himself as an expert. Like when he said when he Let Salah go. I've been at this for a long time. Like, dude, you got to know your role and just know, hey, you're the owner. You sign the checks, and ultimately that patience is going to come through, that if they go 3 and 14, then you're not firing everybody. But part of being a better owner is just be an owner. Just watch. Don't sit there and get involved. And if I know he refuted the Diana Rossini report and all that, but I respect Diana and she did the work on it. So I believe a lot of that was true, is that that's the stuff that can't happen where you're just too involved in the football. It's not your expertise, man.

[Alan Hahn]

And he loves being close to the players. But that also can create a weird dynamic if the players feel comfortable enough to go to you and express their opinions to you, rather than respecting the leadership hierarchy that is in between the player and the owner. And I think that also is something that Woody has to understand, that he's got to be very careful with that. But that happens everywhere in professional sports. Owners love to talk to their players. And you know that there always is that blurred line.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And that's where I think Rex did it. Well, that. What you do is you. You let him in, you let him feel like he's involved, but he's not really involved.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, that's right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't shut him down because that's going to aggravate him and then he's going to get his fat hands in there even more. Yeah, but I always reference the hard knocks with the jets where, you know, Rex, Mike Tanenbaum, and Woody Johnson are all on the elliptical working out together. Like, yeah, let him. Let him think he's involved, kind of patronize him, but not to the point where he notices it's a fine line. It's a dance, man. That's all they want. They want to know, let him in.

[Alan Hahn]

The meeting, wants to be one of.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The boys, but at the end of the day, it's you that's making the decision, not him.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's take Jordan East Islip on this. Hey, Jordan.

[Jordan East Islip]

Hey, what's up, Ellis? Thanks for having me on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What's up?

[Jordan East Islip]

So I'm actually laughing at that question that Alan just posed. Like, does that make you feel any better? Because in the same breath that it was reported that Woody Johnson said that about looking in the mirror and being a better owner, he also said that both Glenn and Muji would report directly to him instead of the standard, you Know, coach, GM hierarchy. So after the way Woody, you know, really botched last season, his solution is I need to be more involved. I mean, give me a break. That's as a Jet fan, that's why. You know what? Aaron Glenn's a nice hire. It's cool to see, but I just, I cannot get myself excited about it at all. I mean, this guy's still there, he's still in charge.

[Don Lagreca]

That's where I would be going to.

[Jordan East Islip]

Do what he wants.

[Alan Hahn]

That's the problem.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's usually in sports, the downfall when you've got an owner that doesn't care. That's not the case here. Woody cares, but too involved. Just because Woody had billions of dollars to buy the team does not make him an expert. You've got to let your football people be their football people. Ultimately, yeah, things got to get run by you. But when he fired, I'm telling you, people think it was Aaron Rodgers. It wasn't. It was Woody.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I think we see that now more than ever. But because it got out that Rogers talked to Woody the night before, everybody wants to believe that Rodgers had some type of influence in the decision. And that's why Woody the next morning decided to make that knee jerk decision.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think it's more believable that if anything was talked about, it was Rodgers probably trying to talk him, Woody out of firing Saleh. Because listen, you had to know at the time that never works. It works in the other sports. You fire the manager.

[Alan Hahn]

The spark in the NFL, Sacramento Kings, we just talked about it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It derails your season and that's exactly what it did. Salah was not a great coach, but at least he was a coach. Putting, putting Ulbricht in that situation was just so unfair to him and the team and the defense. You probably win three more games, which means you would have played meaningful games in December if you just left it alone. But he had to get his fat hands in because he felt threatened. All people are saying, Aaron Rodgers in charge. Oh, well, you know what? I've been at this a long time. I'm gonna fire Salah.

[Don Lagreca]

And it went so bad.

[Alan Hahn]

Of course it did, the idea.

[Don Lagreca]

But I mean it went. It's not even like they got a hint of a boost. It got worse until it got. Until Rodgers at least settled in just because the season went on. But as a team, I mean, it never got removed.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, they went better, right? They think about it, they went from a team that was poorly coached to a team that wasn't coached at all.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And Ulbrich, again, not to be disrespectful, but the guy had no idea what to do to be a head coach.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the defense couldn't get a. In the New England game, in the Indianapolis game, in the Seattle, Arizona game. Just get a stop. Just. And that was supposed to be the strength of your team.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. So again, that has been the thing that we have said about the Jets. Woody Johnson's biggest problem with the jets is Woody Johnson, and that's never going to get fixed.

[Don Lagreca]

God, I say this completely sincerely. I'm not remotely trolling or being that guy. I promise jets fans, I have been there. Like, I mean, I'm telling you, Deion Sanders. We're getting Albert Haynes work. We have, we have Jeff George. Let's get Donovan McNabb. Okay. The owner's changing his style. He's going to bring in a coach he listens to now. He's going to take a back seat. Let's just. It never ends. And I feel our last caller, because you get to a point now, you're just checked out.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep. I heard it in his voice. Jordan. You heard in his voice?

[Don Lagreca]

Yeah, I mean, what. I'm sorry, Aaron. Glenn's going to excite you. Why? Yeah, he sounded half decent in the presser, so. Todd Bowles has gone on to be a great coach in Tampa Bay. What could he do here? It's brutal, man.

[Alan Hahn]

It's the reality of a Jets fan right now. And right now, game time is brought to you by Tullamore Due Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, it's Tully time. Rangers host the Hurricanes tonight coverage immediately following us with dawn of the pregame show right here on 880. The Islanders are also playing the Avalanc. That's a 7:30 puck drop. Rangers. Hurricanes a 7:00 puck drop. And Don, I mean, you were telling me about this game since last week. In between, though, the Rangers had that heartbreaking loss. I mean, they make the comeback. They're right there. I thought they were going to get that game, at least get the point. Going to overtime. 14 seconds left. They get such a backbreaking goal so they can't get that win. But still, why is tonight's game. I'm coming with you. I want to watch this game. But give me, give me something I'm looking forward to tonight.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it's another really good team that's beaten them twice. So it's a divisional opponent again. I'm not. I don't think you're catching Washington, but you know get out. Don't rule out the possibility of maybe finishing in the top three in the Metro Devils just lost their starting goaltender. Yeah, you know you can, you can grab two points in the standings against Carolina tonight. So that's why it's big ranting into the building. So they just made a big deal. They think they can win the Stanley Cup. Go out there and beat him for the first time this year. And you got Igor there. They came back from 2, 2 goals deficits in the game. There's a lot of positives that came from that. But in an era where you're judged by points now, giving up late goals where you got a point in your pocket and that's two games against Colorado. Remember they get Lekonen scored late in the third period in Denver. Otherwise the Rangers win that game in regulation. So that's two. They didn't. They only got one instead of two. And here, because they didn't go to overtime, they lost at least one, possibly two. So that's three points you left on the table, possibly against the Avalanche. You can't afford to lose those now.

[Alan Hahn]

The Rangers haven't played them in a month, since it was late December.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was around Christmas time.

[Alan Hahn]

It was before Christmas, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

That they played the hurricane. They lost 31 at the Garden. Why is, why is this Rangers team now different than that one defense?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Their blue line, the acquisitions of Rant of Vaconainen, Borgin, despite the turnover that he had in the Avalanche. He just didn't realize Makar was coming out of the box. And he's a world class player. Cale McCarr is amazing. But they've really. They had all six defensemen had a point in the game against Philadelphia. That's been the biggest difference to me is they're playing well defensively, they're contributing offensively. Keandre Miller's been better. I think this blue line that was in flux with Truba and you know, different guys in and out of the lineup. Poor Zach Jones can't get in because there's nobody to take out. They're really clicking. All six defensemen are playing well and when they're doing that and then the forwards can do what they do, that's when this Ranger team is on top of their game.

[Alan Hahn]

It is. Again, it's always a compelling game. Rangers and Hurricanes, of course, but that's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A big rivalry now. The way they become that second round in 22 last year they've kind of had the Hurricanes number in the postseason. Not so much in the regular season.

[Alan Hahn]

I hate Using must win. But we've done this before with certain games, right? I mean, do you put a little bit of that on this game? Just like, maybe, you know, like, I felt again, going to the Knicks last night was sort of a tone setting. Like, okay, this little run we've been on, this is legit. Like, you want to make a couple of games throughout the year. You want to make a little statement when you're playing better. To say, this stamps that what we're doing is legit. Would tonight's game be for the Rangers? Like, okay, this little run we've been on where we've gotten a point in, what was it, 12 games?

[Peter Rosenberg]

10.

[Alan Hahn]

10 games? 7.

[Peter Rosenberg]

0. 1. 3.

[Alan Hahn]

All right. Win this game on your home ice and you sort of say, okay, all right. This is sensing that things definitely turned.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, especially after the way they lost on Sunday. Yeah, that feels like a dagger that.

[Alan Hahn]

Ripped your heart out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Lose tonight, it's almost like you're twisting the dagger because now it makes that game against the Avalanche hurt even more. You win in regulation tonight against a really good team, forget about it. You can kind of move on. All right, we're back to. And then you got a Boston team that's been very average because they got night time off until they play on Saturday afternoon. But you lose tonight, it makes what happened on Sunday hurt even worse. Now you've lost two in a row, and things aren't going well in the standings. Like, Ottawa just won recently. Philadelphia's all of a sudden got hot again. Like, you find yourself, you made up all this ground and then a couple of bad games, and now you. You fall back again. And I don't want to say time's running out, but there's only 32 games after tonight. It does go by quick.

[Alan Hahn]

And they have the long break coming.

[Don Lagreca]

Yeah, I mean, listen, they're three points out of the playoffs. But to your point, Don, isn't it hard with the team when you start playing well, you turn it around and you look up and you're still looking up.

[Alan Hahn]

Demoralizing.

[Don Lagreca]

Like it's demoralizing after a while. At what point does it break you? That's the thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, you just can't gain the ground because all these teams end up playing each other and all these three point games, and it. It gets frustrating. So get a win, hopefully gain some points on some teams. And as you said, you got a Boston team, Boston, Vegas, back to back. They beat Vegas in Vegas, but, you know, in Boston, home against the Golden Knights, the schedule's tough man, of course, even the best teams can't win every single night.

[Alan Hahn]

Right? Right. But when you've, when you dug such a hole that you dug, you had to have a run 10 games with a point, that's a run. But these are also games that give you that statement, again, fan buy in. These are games I always look at. And when you have a bad start to a season, you're always looking for those performances that give you that reason to say, okay, there's definitely, they're definitely a different team than they were December 22nd when they lost 3 to 1. This is a different looking team against this Hurricanes team. That's what you want to see. That's game time. Brought to you by Tullamore Dew, the original triple distilled, triple blended, triple cast matured Irish whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew. Honey, during tonight's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. So Don's going to have the pregame show and then I'm just going to, I'm like, Mr. Tag along. That's what I'm going to do here, Peter. I'm just going like, Don's going to work, I'm going to chill and then we're, we're going to head down to the Garden, get a little, little pregame din.

[Don Lagreca]

Look at this.

[Alan Hahn]

And then watch the game. And I'm going to sit with him. We're going to talk some hockey, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's right.

[Don Lagreca]

Can you now, Was there a FaceTime.

[Alan Hahn]

With us for a little bit?

[Don Lagreca]

I might. Was there, Was there a real inspiration for this?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, it was. Don told me this is a great game. And I'm like, you know what? I'm in. I got to pick up Gracie at 10 o'clock. I got plenty of time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No offense to Michael. I think these things are more doable now.

[Don Lagreca]

Oh, you mean hanging out? Yeah, excursions, spending time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You mean now I become the role of Mike? Well, I'm going to make it difficult.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, you. Because I already was going to throw out like, you know, what do we got? We got the Nuggets. That's a pretty good one. But you know that next Monday's Rockets game, that's one you're going to want to watch. That's going to be a street fight, you know, at msg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm looking forward to.

[Alan Hahn]

I was going to toss out the invite to you boys for that one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

As a show because it's not going to feel the same tonight. Without you, Peter. Yeah, but I think making these appearances out in public let the people know what's going on.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, I'm putting it out there. I'm dragging you to Yankees or Mets games on our way home here. I know it goes the opposite way for you, Boba.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wait a minute. I was a partial season ticket holder to the Mets.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, all right, And I would.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Bring, like, I brought Brown shirt to the Cardinal games. I brought Andrew Gunling to the Philippines.

[Alan Hahn]

On my way home. I passed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I would leave here.

[Alan Hahn]

I would.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sometimes, depending on the travel, I might not get there to, like, the bottom of the third, top of the fourth, but it's fine.

[Alan Hahn]

Get Zach to me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hot dogs are still hot.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, Peter, again, if you're in on that. I love a good baseball game in the summer.

[Don Lagreca]

Oh, listen, listen. Everything right now in my life is subject to what I'm allowed to do. I suppose for a while because I'm.

[Alan Hahn]

Just being smart here under house arrest.

[Don Lagreca]

But I think so. I mean, listen, guys, easy. When the baby. When the baby's, like, small, under. Yeah, I might bring the baby with us. It might be three men and a baby.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A. J. There might be times where Natalie's. You know, why don't you go to the game?

[Alan Hahn]

Take the kid. Take the kid. Right. Well, Don McGregor is the next voice you're going to hear on the pregame show for the Rangers and the Carolina Hurricanes. That's coming up next. We will see you all tomorrow.