Hour 4: AL MVP Debate

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 4: AL MVP Debate (September 18, 2025)

Overview

In this lively episode, Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg tackle one of MLB’s hottest end-of-season topics: Who deserves the American League MVP—Aaron Judge or Cal Raleigh? The hosts and callers debate the meaning of “Most Valuable Player,” historical achievements, positional significance, and team impact. Alongside the spirited MVP discussion, listeners are treated to a few classic New York sports tangents, baseball nostalgia, and audience participation.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Remembering New York Soccer’s Heyday and the Modern MLS Hype

• Brief nostalgic discussion about soccer in New York, referencing Pele, sold-out Meadowlands games in the 1970s, and parallels to today’s “Messi-mania.”
  • [01:19] Don Hahn: “Every time I hear [Ronaldo’s] name, I only think of Gunling when he's imitating… That’s so good.”
  • [02:01] Alan: “It’s amazing that soccer is still trying to find a big thing when it used to be a big thing somehow…it was a happening.”

Clayton Kershaw’s Legacy

• Before the MVP debate, the hosts spend a moment on Clayton Kershaw's career and Hall of Fame credentials.
  • [03:07] Alan: “There's going to be some jack wagon in both. They should be immediately not only thrown off the voting, but probably excommunication.”
  • Acknowledgment of the changing nature of pitching—no more “innings eaters.”
  • [04:01] Don Hahn: “I feel like they do pay pitchers. Like they baby pitchers.”
  • [04:32] Don Hahn: “It just wasn't like Seaver and…Fergie Jenkins…nine innings of baseball and one run was given up. Like it's unreal.”

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The Core – AL MVP Debate: Judge vs. Raleigh

Framing the Question: What Does “MVP” Mean?

• [08:02] Alan: “They should throw MVP out and just put Outstanding Player. They got to put it’s the best player in the league.”
• Consistent frustration over the ambiguity—best player or most valuable to their team?

The Judge Argument: Unquestioned Greatness

• Aaron Judge is presented as the clear best player—statistically dominant and irreplaceable for the Yankees.
  • [09:46] Peter Rosenberg: “Best player in the sport is Aaron…The Yankees don’t win when Judge gets hurt. We’ve seen. They're just not the same.”
  • [12:29] Peter Rosenberg: “In every category for Judge. He crushes. Oh, listen, he's the better player.”

The Raleigh Argument: Historic Feat for a Catcher

• Cal Raleigh’s impact comes from doing the unprecedented at the catcher position (home run records, defensive importance), and Seattle’s potential division win carries weight.
  • [10:18] Peter Rosenberg: “If you wanted to give it to Raleigh because his team won the division…he did all these things as a catcher. Yankee fans will get mad. I don’t think you can get mad if Raleigh won it…Catchers aren’t supposed to do this.”
  • [10:40] Peter Rosenberg: “He is going to end up…If he hits, I think one more home run, he'll hit more home runs than Ken Griffey Jr. ever hit in Seattle…It is pretty incredible.”

The Voter Dilemma: Fatigue and History

• "Voter fatigue" is discussed—the hesitancy to give the same player (Judge) repeated honors.
• [09:46] Don Hahn: “You want to come up with a reason to give it to Cal Riley, you will. And this is a year where you can build the case.”
• [11:17] Peter Rosenberg: “There is sometimes, I think, a New York bias or a fatigue having the same guy wins all the time. So I do think Raleigh's gonna get some votes. But…it's not that much of a travesty.”

Batting Average, New Metrics, and the Value Debate

• The hosts debate the impact of batting average vs. new stats like OPS.
  • [12:15] Peter Rosenberg: “I don't care what, what happened with baseball and how they appreciated it. Give me, give me his batting.329. Cal Raleigh, he bats under 250.”
  • [12:29] Peter Rosenberg: “All we keep hearing from the baseball people is the batting average doesn't matter anymore…When the Yankees have the starting lineup on the jumbotron, Peter, they're showing the OPS, not even your batting.”

Outstanding Player vs. MVP

• Consensus that “best” and “most valuable” aren’t automatic synonyms.
• [12:55] Don Hahn: “You could do that in all sports.”

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Caller Segment: Fan Stats and Perspectives

The “OPS Subtraction” Stat

• [15:00] Alan: (caller) “If you take Cal Raleigh's OPS and you subtract it by 180, you get the average baseball player in 2025…if you take Judge's OPS and subtract it by 180, you get Cal Raleigh…That alone speaks pretty good.”
  • Hosts praise this as a telling illustration of the gap between the two.

“Valuable to Team” – Mariners Without Raleigh, Yankees Without Judge

• [16:26] Don Hahn: “Take Aaron Judge out of the lineup. They're awful. Come on.”
• [16:53] Peter Rosenberg: “There's a big separation between the New York Yankees and the Seattle Mariners as far as the talent on the team…Where would Seattle be without Cal Raleigh? Maybe 10 games under and can be completely irrelevant.”

Historic Seasons vs. Standards

• [18:48] Don Hahn: “This has become [Judge’s] norm. He is Nikola Jokic…This is just what he does…What Cal Raleigh is doing is historic at his position…That's why…you can make the case of giving it to Cal Raleigh. But I think that's only because Judge has set such a…high…standard.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:07] Alan on voting oddities:
  “There's going to be some jack wagon in both. They should be immediately not only thrown off the voting, but probably excommunication.”
• [10:18] Peter Rosenberg on Raleigh’s case:
  “If you wanted to give it to Raleigh because his team won the division…he did all these things as a catcher…Catchers aren’t supposed to do this, right?”
• [15:00] Alan (caller) with a stat:
  “If you take Cal Raleigh's OPS and you subtract it by 180, you get the average baseball player…if you take Judge's OPS and subtract it by 180, you get Cal Raleigh…That alone speaks pretty good.”
• [18:48] Don Hahn on standards:
  “[Judge] has set his standard. That standard happens to be higher than pretty much every player in the league. But this is his standard. What Cal Raleigh is doing is historic at his position.”

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Tangents & Lighter Moments

YouTube Channel Milestone

• Hosts celebrate surpassing 10,000 YouTube subscribers.
  • [19:08] Peter Rosenberg: “Our YouTube channel has surpassed 10,000…We got it two weeks early, baby.”

Yankees Hypothetical – 2001 WS or 2004 ALCS

• [20:30] Alan: “Hey, Alan, if you could go back in time, as a Yankees fan, would you rather go back and win 2004 ALCS game seven or 2001 World Series?”
• [20:43] Don Hahn: “Give me the championship every time.”
• [21:16] Peter Rosenberg: “You blew a three nothing series lead. If you win that series…you're still the only team ever to do it in baseball history. That's not something that goes away.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:19] – NY soccer nostalgia and Messi mania
• [02:01] – Alan on old NYC soccer, crowd sizes
• [03:04] – Kershaw's HOF legacy; the end of innings-eating starters
• [07:51] – Caller brings up the MVP debate: semantics vs. substance
• [08:02–14:18] – AL MVP debate (Judge vs. Raleigh)
• [15:00] – Caller offers “OPS subtraction” stat for perspective
• [19:08] – Hosts celebrate YouTube milestone
• [20:30–22:29] – Yankees hypothetical: which heartbreak to undo?
• [22:32] – Episode wraps (final thoughts, sign-offs)

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Summary

This episode delivers a passionate, nuanced discussion of the AL MVP contest, with insightful breakdowns of “best” versus “most valuable,” recognition of historic positional value (for a catcher like Raleigh), and acknowledgment of standards set by all-time greats (like Judge). The hosts bring both the data and the heart, balancing analytic depth with quintessential New York sports talk energy. Whether you want to settle the MVP argument or just love the rhythm of real sports radio, this hour is a must-listen snapshot of baseball’s biggest debate in September 2025.

Transcript

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[Don Hahn]

Every time I hear his name, I only think of Gunling when he's imitating. You guys had that drop all the time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh no, that was Dave Rothenberg.

[Don Hahn]

That was Rothenberg. Rothenberg imitating Gunley.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, that was Rothenberg. No, it's. You're right, it's Andrew imitating Rothenberg because Rothenberg like get excited that he knew soccer people. Do we.

[Don Hahn]

Do we still have Pele, Ronaldo, David Vanoli?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Huh?

[Don Hahn]

That's so good. It's so good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That is very, very good. All right. 1-800-919-3776 tons of people want to get on board. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's go to Danny in Long island, wants to go after Alan. What's up?

[Alan]

Who, who saw Pele and I believe 1977 with the Cosmos had a sold out Meadowlands. I mean it was a. It's amazing that soccer is still trying to find a big thing when it used to be a big thing somehow it used to put 75,000 people in the Meadowlands. It was, it was a happening.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, they could back in Danny. I know you're saying. But they could do that now. Like I'm sure if Messi plays in it is going to be sold out. The problem is we just can't get the MLS to get to that level. But when somebody like Pele comes and that's what Messi and Ronaldo are, people do go.

[Alan]

I want to talk about Kershaw first. I thought Alan's comment was a little mean spirited. Too soon. And if your cell phone starts ringing from Disney or abc, don't answer it. Better go like the voicemail could be in trouble. 222 wins over 96 losses, 2.5 ERA in this baseball home run inflated ERA is tremendous. This is a first ballot hall of Fame.

[Don Hahn]

Will he be unanimous?

[Alan]

You know, listen, there's going to be some jack wagon in both. They should, they should be immediately not only thrown off the voting but probably excommunication.

[Don Hahn]

Right. And that guy will say, well, you know, postseason, you know, he wasn't really a big.

[Alan]

You know what, he had some bad times in postseason but he had to be. That's what they do. But he's, he is. I mean you look at these numbers compared to the, the jokers we have pitching today. Especially when you're a methane, you know he just so good career, good guy. Never heard a bad word about him. Never saw him in the arrest blotter family man. So good riddance and hopefully have a healthy retirement. I'll see you in Cooperstown.

[Don Hahn]

Absolutely agree.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was. Listen, there's so the pitch and listen he, he is the last of the old breed because there's not going to be innings Eater. Yeah. Because nobody goes the distance anymore. It just, it seems like pitching has really been devalued. It's almost become almost like the running back of Major league Baseball. Except they do pay them like they don't pay running backs in the NFL.

[Don Hahn]

But I feel like they do pay pitchers. Like they baby pitchers.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, they baby them. They can't wait to get to their fancy bullpen and you just don't have those wars anymore. Like what you had when two of the best pitchers would both go complete games matching zeros. Like that's all over now it's itching to get to the bullpen. That's what's going to happen in these playoffs. Like as much as Freed has been great, you know Boone's going to be itching the first jam he gets into in the sixth inning. Let's go to the bullpen, let's try to piece it together, get everybody in their lanes instead of just having a great ace work his way out of it.

[Don Hahn]

It just wasn't like Seaver and like Fergie Jenkins, like going head to head and 69, like nine innings of baseball and one run was given up like it's unreal.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It really is a different, different sport that way.

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Tony in Tampa. You're on ESPN New York.

[Alan]

What's going on boys? How we doing?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Good.

[Alan]

Good. So Don, you know, you know I hate the MVP talk, but it's. It's around, it's around that time for baseball.

[Don Hahn]

Let's do it.

[Alan]

The MVP Cal rally or judge. And Alan and Peter weren't. When I called last season for football, it was you and Dan. And Dan could have sworn it would be Lamar Jackson because he was first team all pro. Well that didn't happen. Right? Alan, Peter, see if you guys can get on board with this because it chaps my rear end. I can't stand this award. They should grow MVP out and just put outstanding player. They got to put it's the best player in the league. Because my examples were LeBron James could.

[Don Hahn]

Have won every year.

[Alan]

Every year or every year when Cleveland stunk. Right?

[Don Hahn]

It's such a. Look, what you're saying is semantics. But it's still right because that's a sub that in every league you can have that argument. Like right now if you wanted to go NBA, Nikola Jokic is the best player in the sport. He should win it every year. But. But because you come up with reasons to not give it to him every year you find other players. So is it best player in the sport or is it who had the best season? And I think judges numbers tell you when you look at he's leading the league in a million categories. He should win MVP again. But you know what happens when you give it to writers and voters and they'll say well let's see. Does Cal Riley's team win the division? He is doing something a catcher, you know, doesn't do. The home runs, the switch hitter home runs. He's also defensively what he does as a catcher the impact it has that Judge doesn't have the same in right field availability. All the things you want to come up. You want to come up with a reason to give it to Cal Riley, you will. And this is a year where you can build the case. And that's the voter fatigue thing.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Listen, best player in the sport is Aaron. The Yankees don't win when Judge gets hurt. We've seen they're just not the same. Well, the war. So he obviously is very, very important.

[Alan]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But here's why. And this is not anti Yankee. I wouldn't have a problem if Cal Raleigh won it. You just said no catcher has ever hit this many home runs. No switch hitter has ever hit this many home runs. Seattle winning the division, if they do win the division is a thing. It is. Whoa. Seattle won the division. Yankees winning the wild Cards a disappointment.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So if you wanted to give it to Raleigh because his team won the division. Seattle shocked the world by winning the division and he did all these things as a catcher. Yankee fans will get mad. I don't think you can get mad if Raleigh won it. Because we talk about the unicorn that though Tani is because he pitched and hit. Well, this is kind of a unicorn too. Catchers aren't supposed to do this, right?

[Don Hahn]

It's true.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He is going to end up. If he hits, I think one more home run, he'll hit more home runs than Ken Griffey Jr. Ever hit in Seattle. Like it is just pretty incredible.

[Don Hahn]

It's not an easy vote because if you consider again, historically, Judge historically is having another monster season that compares in the history of the sport. But what, what Cal Riley has done historically at the catcher position is also one of the great seasons of all time by a catcher. So that's why I think you can make the case either way and not be wrong. I'm just curious to see how many people are going to vote one way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Or the other because there is sometimes I think a New York bias or a fatigue having the same guy wins all the time. So I do think Raleigh's gonna get some votes. But if he does, I don't think it's that much of a travesty. Now for the walk guard. If he's awful down the stretch, I mean there's still 10 games left to kind of change the narrative here. But if Seattle wins the division, I mean there's still. It's an outside. What does he have 56 home runs? I mean, it's a hell of a year. He ends up hitting north of 60, becoming just the third player in the history of the American league to hit 60 homer as a catcher. And Seattle wins. Now, if Seattle was an also ran, I'd say forget it, he's out of the conversation. But it's not like this has not applied to Seattle. Now listen, I don't watch the Mariners every day. I don't know how many games he's won for them, but I would think that many home runs, that many RBIs, he's had to win a few for them.

[Don Hahn]

But again, across the board, what Judge has done offensively is still among one of the great, again, one of great offensive performers in the history of the sport.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And by the way, you know, I don't care what, what happened with baseball and how they appreciated it. Give me, give me his batting.329 Cal Raleigh, he bats under 250.

[Don Hahn]

It's like 240 something, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, all we keep hearing from the baseball people is the batting average doesn't matter anymore. When the Yankees. When the Yankees have the starting lineup on the jumbotron, Peter, they're showing the ops, not even your batting. So I get what you're saying, but it's every category for Judge. He crushes. Oh, listen, he's the better player. Yeah, he's the. Now, if you wanted to give outstanding player to Judge and then give Raleigh the mvp, I mean, that's what, that's what I think.

[Don Hahn]

That's. What was it, Tony? That's what he was saying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's what he was saying.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And you could do that in all sports. You could do that in all sports.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just think sometimes it just, it just feels like it's a little different when somebody does something that historic out of nowhere and helps his team. Not like the Mariners win the division every year. Okay, they weren't favored to do that. The Yankees, if they settle for the wild card, which they're going to, is going to be looked upon by many people as a disappointing season.

[Don Hahn]

I agree.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So I think Judge deserves it. But I don't think Yankee fans could say he got robbed if he didn't get it.

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[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don Hanan, Rosenberg's 7 o' clock. And then it is Dan Grasse here on ESPN New York. Finish it up with your calls, Chris and Coney island, you're on ESPN New York. What's up, Chris?

[Alan]

Hey, what's up, guys?

[Peter Rosenberg]

How's it going?

[Alan]

I think Aaron Judge is the mvp. And you know, I am biased. I am a Yankee fan, but one of my favorite stats that I heard is that if you take Cal Raleigh's OPS and you subtract it by 180, you get the average baseball player in 2025 in the league. If you take Aaron Judge's OPS and you subtract it by 100 and 80, you get Cal Raleigh. And I think, I think that alone speaks pretty good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a good stat.

[Don Hahn]

That's pretty good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, there's no court see that you're arguing who the better player is. And there's no question that Judge is the better player. But MVP makes it interesting because in this year, could you make the case that Raleigh is more important to the Mariners?

[Don Hahn]

Valuable. You're going valuable.

[Peter Rosenberg]

More valuable to the Mariners than judges. That ain't the word.

[Don Hahn]

You can't, right? You can't. You can't make that case.

[Alan]

If, if Raleigh, he's hitting.247 like he's selling out for the home run and everyone knows it. I think the fact that Judge could be, when it's all said and done, 12 games left or whatever it is, could be hitting 100 points higher average, right? If Raleigh was hitting like 270, 280, but he probably wins it But Judge has such a big separation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but you're. But again, you're arguing if he gets.

[Don Hahn]

To 50 and you have the average. Come on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, but Chris, you guys are arguing who the better player is. There's no question. No better player.

[Don Hahn]

I see what he's saying and I'm, I'm on board. You're. If you're going to use valuable to his team.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, that's the mvp. That's what it is.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, take Aaron Judge out of the lineup. They're awful. Come on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But where, where, where is Seattle without Raleigh?

[Alan]

But the Yankees are nowhere without Judge.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know, but, but you know what? They're not going to be like 10, 15 games under.500. They wouldn't be the same. But maybe they don't make the playoffs.

[Don Hahn]

I think the point is though, is that that's not, that's not. There's not a big separation in that. Right? There's not a big separation.

[Alan]

Separation in RBIs and home runs, right? Overwhelmingly.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But there is. And listen, you're probably going to be right, Chris. But there's also this. There's a big separation between the New York Yankees and the Seattle Mariners as far as the talent on the team. Right. So judges out. Of course he's going to be affected. He's such a good player. But somebody would replace Judge. Maybe they would call up Jones. Maybe Dominguez plays a little bit more. Some other thing to happen. Maybe. Whatever it is. But you still have Stanton, you still have Bellinger, you still have Goldschmidt. You still have a lot of really good players on the team. Of course they wouldn't be the same and maybe they missed the playoffs. But I still think Allen, they finish above.500. They're probably hovering around where would Seattle be without Cal, Raleigh. Whether they be maybe 10 games under and can be completely irrelevant. That's what I'm saying.

[Alan]

There's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You are arguing with the better players. There is no argument. Yeah, but sometimes there's a year where a guy does something that's never been done before on a team that shocks the world and wins the division and they're not supposed to. Doesn't that factor into something?

[Don Hahn]

See, I think. And again, that's where I'm going back to. I think as a voter now I've voted for MVP and other leagues that I covered. So I know what this is like. And it's. So I gotta remove myself in this situation as a Yankees fan and look at it from. If I have a vote and I'm A reporter. You have to consider while Judge. This, by the way, he has be. This has become his norm. He is Nikola Jokic. This is just what he does. Jokic averages triple doubles. You know, just a tremendous player. Incredibly efficient. You're just used to it. He has set his standard. That standard happens to be higher than pretty much every player in the league. But this is his standard. What Cal Raleigh is doing is historic at his position. Right. Something like. It's a. So when you individualize it to say this is a season, that is one of the great seasons a catcher's ever had. That's why if you're going to have to pick one, you can make the case of giving it to Cal Riley. But I think that's only because Judge has set such a high. A Jokic like standard, a Mahomes like standard, that you've become so used to that it. It's weird to say, oh, yeah, well, that's just Judge. That's what he does.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now, real quick, this is all very important, but something more important has happened. Yes.

[Don Hahn]

We have big news.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Our YouTube channel has surpassed 10,000. We asked for it. You got it, Toyota. I said, I want the 10,000 before seven. And we got it. Seven minutes before seven. Probably even more than that.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. That's fantastic.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They were hoping. When, when. When Anthony and I first started having conversations about the couch cast, they were all very excited about the couch cast. And we said, you know that no one is currently following our YouTube channel.

[Don Hahn]

Guys, it was right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was the last video.

[Don Hahn]

It was a secret that we had.

[Peter Rosenberg]

A YouTube channel better help with a women's college player and had like 300 views. I said, I don't. We're gonna have to do something about this. And then Anthony started cutting some. Some videos, putting them out as shorts. Before you know it. That leads to. Now the channel is fully operational, and all of a sudden their goal of getting to 10,000 subs in time for the couch cast. Oh, no, no, no. We got it two weeks early, baby. Now let's get to what be at the pace we're going. Let's get to like 30, 40,000 by the 29th.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, I like.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That would be.

[Don Hahn]

Listen, well, what's the next threshold? Would be 15, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. And I think we can. 15 would be. If you could pull 15 by then, that would be.

[Don Hahn]

By the couch cast. That'd be good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I. And if you did 20 by the couch cast, I'd go, this is really impressive. We got 20. We got 10 in two days.

[Don Hahn]

No, no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So let's see where we're at at the end of tomorrow.

[Don Hahn]

Tell a friend.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right. This is interesting. Nas in Queens has a question for Alan.

[Alan]

Hey, guys. Hey, Alan, if you could go back in time, as a Yankees fan, would you rather go back and win 2004 ALCS game seven or 2001 World Series?

[Don Hahn]

2001, I always. Give me the championship every time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Don Hahn]

Give me the championship.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't buy it.

[Don Hahn]

Give me that. No, the. The importance of that championship in New York in the moment, all those things that came with it. Now Arian Rivera tells the story about why it was significant to him personally to lose that because he had a friend. It was a plane that crashed, that whole story. But if you're asking me, and I understand the Red Sox and how that flip the whole rivalry, and I get it, but I'll always take the championship. Okay, you disagree?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, because you didn't say the biggest thing about 2004. You blew a three nothing series lead. If you win that series, you don't. You're still the only team ever to do it in baseball history. That's not something that goes away. That mark goes away.

[Alan]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You win another championship, but it's one.

[Don Hahn]

Because it's a champ. I don't know, guys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, you might have won a championship.

[Don Hahn]

Give me a championship.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You would have smoked the Cardinals too. So you still win the championship. In 01, most likely. In 04, most likely.

[Don Hahn]

But I don't know that. Well, you guys call that the fallacy, the predetermined outcome.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But. But that. Again, I'm not trying to be that guy. No, no, that's.

[Alan]

That.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That hanged there 100 years from now.

[Don Hahn]

I know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Even if 17 other people do it, our teams do it. You're the first and maybe the only.

[Don Hahn]

But I know if you're giving me a one, that's. Think about it. How many in a row?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Four.

[Don Hahn]

How. When was the last time that happened?

[Peter Rosenberg]

It doesn't happen.

[Don Hahn]

It doesn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Three doesn't happen anymore.

[Don Hahn]

That's what I mean.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But how many times does a team blow a three nothing series lead? Never.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, you're right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but, hey, listen, it's your. Your dime.

[Don Hahn]

Look, no, I don't think there's a wrong answer there. I'm telling you what mine is. I'll always take the championship.

[Peter Rosenberg]

All right, everybody, have a great Thursday. Well done, everybody.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for watching.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's go, Bills, baby.

[Don Hahn]

Come on, Bills.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Is the. Is Peter's three point play. They're. They're giving eleven and a half. We are going to be talking to you again 3:00 clock tomorrow. Dan Grass is next on ESPN News.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Alan]

Yo, this is important, man. My favorite Lululemon shorts, the ones you got me back in the day, I think they're pace breakers. The ones with all the pockets. Well, I just got back from vacation and I think I left them in my hotel room. And dude, I need to replace these shorts. I wear them like every day with that Lulu hoodie you got me. Could you send me the link to where you got them? Thanks, bro. Talk soon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Looking for your newest go to's shop, Lululemon's best sellers [e-mail].