Hour 4: Animosity

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 4: Animosity

Date: October 3, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Podcast: ESPN New York

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Main Theme

This hour dives deep into the simmering animosity between the New York Yankees and the Toronto Blue Jays as they prepare to face off during the ALDS. The hosts dissect recent comments and events that have stirred the rivalry, discuss the dynamics of media attention, and break down the narrative fuel surrounding the matchup. The episode also explores whether the Yankees are truly respected as a team, highlights notable recent playoff performances, and fields engaging listener calls on these topics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Yankees’ Playoff Pitching Decisions

• Luis Gil Named ALDS Game 1 Starter

  • Discussion about Aaron Boone’s choice to start Luis Gil in Game 1 and keep Warren available for the bullpen.
  • Alan explains the logic: “Not pitching freedom early. This makes sense and I think he's a better option than Warren.” (01:26)

• Cody Bellinger’s Health Update

  • Addressing Bellinger’s minor injury (bruised heel) and his impact as both a hitter and runner.
  • Peter relays Boone: “Yeah, he’s pretty good. He’s good to go. Bruised his heel... jammed his heel a little when he was rounding third. So he should be all right.” (01:47)

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The Blue Jays-Yankees Rivalry: Why is There “Animosity”?

• Media & Announcer Slights Fuel the Rivalry

  • Alan references Blue Jays’ broadcaster Buck Martinez calling the Yankees “not a good team.”
  • Don: “...when you're around the team long enough and as much as a broadcaster usually is, you get a feel for what everybody's feeling. And I'm sure he's just sort of a mirror to what they feel about the Yankees.” (04:29)

• Toronto’s Chip on Its Shoulder

  • The Blue Jays feel overshadowed by the Yankees' constant spotlight and media attention.
  • Alan: “They pay attention to the lack of attention they get because the Yankees are always on national television... And every big free agent is going to go to the Yankees and Yankees this, Yankees that. And you're in Toronto...” (05:13)
  • On Toronto fans vs. Maple Leafs: “You’re not the biggest story all the time. Where the Yankees are always a big story.” (06:09)

• Rivalry as Motivation and Media Narrative

  • Don suggests using a montage of slights for pre-series hype: “If I’m Fox, this is the montage I’m doing... This is going to be a dirty fight. The Blue Jays don’t like the Yankees. And I don’t know how the Yankees feel, but I think the Yankees look at the Blue Jays like, ‘yeah, whatever, okay?’” (10:39)

• Hating the Concept, Not the Players

  • Alan: “I don’t think they hate the Yankee players. I just think they hate the whole concept.”
  • Don agrees: “You don’t have to hate the players to still hate the whole idea.” (11:22)

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Respect for the 2025 Yankees: Media Perception vs. Reality

• Are the 2025 Yankees Respected by Their Peers?

  • Don asks: “Do you think this is a highly respected team, their approach, all of it?” (11:40)
  • Alan: “I wouldn’t think they wouldn’t be. You don’t think Judge is respected, Stanton isn’t respected?”
  • Don presses: “That’s individuals. I’m talking about the approach, style of play, how they play, what they're about. Like overall.” (12:07)
  • Alan summarizes wider opinion: “What Buck said was probably how everybody feels. Everybody feels that this team is fugazi.” (12:14)
  • Don: “They get a ton of attention because of who they are, not what they are.” (12:20)

• Attention Jealousy in the AL East

  • If the Yankees advance, other underappreciated teams like the Mariners or Tigers may feel similarly slighted by the media.
  • Alan: “I can totally see Detroit or Seattle getting completely kind of thrown away here in a series against the Yankees.” (13:16)

• Marquee Matchups

  • Don: “This [Yankees-Blue Jays] series and Dodgers-Phillies to me are the series that are going to have sizzle.” (14:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Media’s Role in Fanning Rivalry:
  • Don: “This is going to be a dirty fight. The Blue Jays don’t like the Yankees...” (10:39)
• On Blue Jays’ Mindset:
  • Alan: “They probably feel, you know, like, hey, is anybody going to pay attention to us? ... We were the best team in the American League. Damn it, why [Isn’t] anybody talking about us?” (06:09)
• On Respect for the Yankees:
  • Alan: “They get a ton of attention because of who they are, not what they are.” (12:20)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Yankees Pitching & Bellinger Update: 00:44–02:10
• Aaron Boone & Buck Martinez Comments (Rivalry Heats Up): 02:39–04:29
• Toronto’s Chip on Shoulder, Hockey vs. Baseball in Toronto: 05:13–06:09
• Montage & Dirty Fight Narrative: 10:39
• Are the Yankees Respected? 11:40–12:14
• Other AL Teams Getting Overlooked by Media: 13:16
• Marquee Series in the Playoffs: 14:15

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Listener Interaction & Playoff Pitching Performances

• Call from Chris in Barnegat (16:40)

  • Chris recalls the excitement of a pitcher going out past 100 pitches and asks where this ranks among playoff pitching performances.
  • Alan: “This is a kid making his 16th major league start, his first in the postseason. But just right now...I think it’s top five, but it could age even better if they make a run.” (17:23)
  • Don and Alan put it in context with historic performances (Clemens, Don Larsen, Andy Pettitte).

• Fun Music Tangent (David Bowie vs. Bonnie Tyler vs. Mariah Carey): 19:15–20:08

  • The team jokes about different hero-themed songs, keeping the banter light and the camaraderie natural.

• Call from Javier in Queens (20:08)

  • A shoutout to Don’s “newfound Yankee fandom.”
  • Alan quotes The Sopranos: “To the victor belongs the spoil.” (20:39)
  • Analysis of “rest vs. rust” as an advantage for the Yankees going into the series. (21:34)

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Closing Thoughts

• The hosts are energized by the Yankees-Blue Jays storyline emerging for the ALDS, emphasizing that the animosity is real but often constructed through media narratives and city-wide chips on shoulders.
• The talk highlights why Yankees series draw outsized attention, how that feeds rivalry, and how teams outside the New York spotlight motivate themselves by their underdog status.

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Episode Highlight:
Don (10:39): “This is going to be a dirty fight. The Blue Jays don't like the Yankees. And I don't know how the Yankees feel, but I think the Yankees look at the Blue Jays like, 'yeah, whatever, okay?'”

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For Listeners:
If you care about the powerful undercurrents of baseball rivalries, market jealousy, and the inside psychology of postseason pressure, this episode offers both insight and lively banter, capturing the true essence of Yankees vs. Blue Jays in October.

Transcript

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[Don Hahn]

Don Han at Rosenberg Podcast.

[Alan]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Don Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Alan]

Aaron Boone spoke. I'm gonna need Anthony to help me out here. Yeah. So what do we got? Why Luis heel for ALDS game one.

[Peter]

Just feel like he's ready for this. He's in line for it. Decided for now we want to keep Warren an option in the pen and feel like Louie's ready to go.

[Alan]

Yeah. There was a decision on Schlitler or Heel.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Alan]

So obviously he'll would be the next one up. Right. Just that it was have been the opposite if he decided to go with heel last night. But before the playoffs started, we knew the cam was going to be the third game starter so there was no reason to put Heel on the postseason roster. He wasn't coming out of the pen. So this, this seems like the logical next step, right? Not pitching. You're not pitching freedom early. This makes sense and I think he's a better option than Warren.

[Don Hahn]

I agree.

[Alan]

Now, something that you didn't see or maybe you did or didn't see is on Cody Bellinger's last ground out of the game, he was limping a little bit. Everyone said he would be good to go. We get more from Aaron today on what's wrong with Cody Bellinger.

[Peter]

Yeah, he's pretty good. He's good to go. Bruised his heel so yeah, we think he should be good to go. How do you do that? Kind of re aggravated scoring on that play on the base hit. The first run yesterday just kind of jammed his heel a little bit when he was round in third. So he should be all right and should be good to go.

[Alan]

No problem.

[Don Hahn]

He's ready to go. Should be good to go.

[Alan]

Now you want him for his bat, you know, so if he's a little, you know, slowed down as far as running the ball, I will say though he does a great job running balls in the gap, so that could be an issue if he's not 100%, but the bats would still be strong. And Peter, you're always looking for juice. Well, Aaron Boone spoke about the Yankees in general and how good a team they are, and referenced a Blue Jays announcer in his answer.

[Peter]

I feel like, you know, obviously the last couple months really started to play really well, and contrary to some thoughts up here, we're a really good team. I know Buck had some thoughts. That's all I was responded to. So he's wrong, but it doesn't matter. We got to go play and we got to go perform as everyone does at this time of year. So we feel really good about our team. We're playing well, but all that's in the past now. We got to go play well moving forward. And we have the challenge of a new series against another really good team and a really good opponent that has earned the opportunity to wait out this first series. So we're excited, looking forward to it, and should be a great series saying.

[Don Hahn]

All the right things. But you remember earlier in the show, I told you there's some animosity in this series. And the Blue Jays have this. They have a way about them right now. They feel Nazly way. Yeah, but it's also like the, it's the. I'm telling you, deep down they wanted the Yankees because this is their way. They want to be able to put the Yankees out and sort of say, it's our time now, our arrival, all those things. They have that about them. And I was thinking of the different things that we've seen go on between them. And the most recent was Springer saying to the umpire, if you want the, if you want New York to win a division, just tell us. I totally forgot about what Buck Martinez said on the broadcast about the Yankees are not, they're not a good team. Forgot about that one.

[Alan]

But listen, in fairness to Buck, all right, he has nothing to do with the Blue Jays personnel. He's the announcer. I mean, unless they got to put him on radio, he's not going to be calling these games in the postseason. And before you get upset, including you, Allen, okay, A lot of Yankee fans agreed with Buck when he said it, because when he said it, they Yankees were in a bad way. Yeah, I maybe shouldn't have said it. None of his business to say it. I get all that wrong. But what, at the time. He wasn't wrong.

[Don Hahn]

No, he wasn't wrong at the time because they, they did Make a lot of. They were playing poorly. But what it does show you, though, is that that is like Don, you know, he doesn't represent what the team is saying. But when you're around the team long enough and as much as a broadcaster usually is, you get a feel for what everybody's feeling. And I'm sure he's just sort of a mirror to what they're, what they feel about the Yankees, which is why, again, I think they're going to test him every way possible. All their weaknesses, they're going to try to exploit. When it comes to defense, when it comes to bullpen, when it comes to the way they approach hitting. That's. That's what's going to make this such a compelling series.

[Alan]

And so, but people need to realize about, like, what the Blue Jays are going through and why, why Buck would say that. Would Buck say that about another team? Probably not. He feels emboldened to say it about the Yankees because it just shows you the chip that the Blue Jays have on their shoulder where it's Yankees this, Yankees that. And I think Alan and I have been around enough players to know they pay attention to that. They pay attention to the lack of attention they get because the Yankees are always on national television and the Yankees always get talked about. And every big free agent is going to go to the Yankees and Yankees this, Yankees that. And you're in Toronto. And let's face it, in the sports landscape in Toronto now, that building is going to be packed and they're going to be ravenous, but they're probably talking a little bit more, you know, Leafs opening their season in Toronto than maybe Blue Jays playoffs because it's a hockey town.

[Don Hahn]

You think so?

[Alan]

Well, they, no, they. I'm just saying overall, when you're a Blue Jay.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan]

You're not that. You're not the biggest story all the time. Where the Yankees are always a big story. Yes, it's very difficult when the Yankees are playing well, as big as the Giants are, as big as the Knicks are, they're not throwing any shade towards the Yankees. Right. They're not taking up any of the Yankees oxygen. But listen, the Blue Jays in the playoffs, those fans are going to be ravenous. But you know, with the, what the Maple Leafs are doing and it's a hockey town, they probably get a little bit more attention than the Blue Jays do. So they probably feel, you know, like, hey, is anybody going to pay attention to us? Is anybody going to care about our season? We were the best team in the American League. Damn it, why Anybody talking about us? And they'll use that. But it's fugazi at the end of the day, once you hit the field, you got to execute. This is not football running through a wall. You got to go out and play your game. But they'll use whatever they can to make themselves out to be the little engine that could. But they're not. They're an outstanding team.

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[Alan]

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[Don Hahn]

Canadians in Toronto to play the Maple Leafs on Wednesday. So the series will have shifted to the Bronx by then.

[Alan]

All right, now listen, they'll get better ratings than the Maple. It's regular season hockey. I'm just saying, when you are a Blue Jay, you don't get the love in Toronto the way a Yankee gets love in New York.

[Don Hahn]

Not even close.

[Alan]

All right, Auston Matthews walks down the street with Springer or, or any other Blue Jay Guerrero. They're running to Auston Matthews because it's a hockey town. That's just the way it is. And I'm sure. And they use that. And, and the Maple Leafs use it too. Oh, the league doesn't want us to win. They're against us. You heard Springer say, you read his lips. You want the Yankees to win because that's their feeling. Like they want the Yankees. They don't want the Blue Jays in the league championship series.

[Don Hahn]

So we got to get a compilation of, of the. The studio host waving the broom, right? This, we took the broom out. Remember that when they swept the Yankees for the first time in Toronto. If that you have Springer doing with, you know, saying what he said and then like, if, if I'm Fox, this is the montage I'm doing. And then obviously Buck, like, throw that stuff in there and turn this into. This is going to be, this is going to be a dirty fight. These, that the, the Blue Jays don't like the Yankees. And I don't know how the Yankees feel, but I think the Yankees look at the Blue Jays like, yeah, whatever, okay?

[Alan]

I don't think they hate the Yankee players. I just think they hate the Whole concept.

[Don Hahn]

Concept. But that you don't have to hate the players to still.

[Alan]

No, I'm just saying they just hate the whole idea. It's Toronto versus New York and in. In baseball, it's David against Goliath. And they probably think they deserve more credit than that, which they do because they're every bit as good. And if you go by the season series, they're probably better than the Yankees.

[Don Hahn]

Don, do you think the Yankees are as the team, not the franchise and the entity and the brand. I want to talk about that. This iteration of the team, this roster, this style of play, this group. Do you think this is a highly respected team, their approach, all of it?

[Alan]

Yeah, I wouldn't think they wouldn't be. You don't think Judge is respected, Stanton isn't respected?

[Don Hahn]

That's individuals. I'm talking about the approach, style of play, how they play, what they're about. Like overall. Of course.

[Alan]

Well, you heard Buck. What Buck said was probably how everybody feels. Everybody feels that this team is fugazi.

[Don Hahn]

And they get a ton of attention because of who they are, not what they are. Right, right.

[Alan]

And they probably are a little, in a way about why is all the attention on the Yankees and not us?

[Don Hahn]

That's.

[Alan]

They'll use that.

[Don Hahn]

I'm trying to make that point. I'm trying to make that point is that. That's why I feel like this series is going to have a little extra juice in it that maybe some people wouldn't expect.

[Alan]

And hey, you know what, Alan? If the Yankees win this series and take on the Tigers and the Mariners, I'm sure Seattle and Detroit are going to feel the same way. Yankees are getting all the attention. Seattle, like, oh, we're out West. Nobody pays attention to us. Nobody cares about us, Nobody believes in us. They'll have a bigger. They'll have a bigger case for it than the Blue Jays world. I mean, this is inherently an AL east thing with some juice at least. Yeah, I can totally see Detroit or Seattle getting completely kind of thrown away here in a series against the Yankees.

[Don Hahn]

I also, I love the fact earlier, Don, you tried to really sell the idea that Detroit, Seattle is a good. That is a nap. People are not going to be excited to see that series. It is. I get good news saying there's mvp. An MVP candidate, a true MVP candidate is going to be in that series. That's great. But I mean, no, all I was trying to sell there. This series is the one to watch it.

[Alan]

No, absolutely. But I'm just saying that you've got two. You've got a division winner. That's a great story with a possible American League MVP who's been a big story. And Detroit, which is a big market.

[Don Hahn]

I understand.

[Alan]

But so. And I think the Tigers are sexier than the Guardians. But not much. But not by.

[Don Hahn]

But not much. Not much at all much. But you'll have. I just think you'll have. You'll have more sizzle if the Yankees play the Mariners because of the MVP thing. And they won't. They. They're not going to name the MVP officially until after the World Series is over November.

[Alan]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

So we won't know. But that's like the last sort statement of whoever comes out of that series. So that will make that fun that you can build that up. But this series, this and Dodgers, Phillies to me are the series that are going to have sizzle.

[Alan]

And for people that know the votes are already in.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan]

So what happens if they do play each other? Is not going to matter. But boy, that's going to feel like, to quote Rob Manfred, that's going to feel like a piece of tin to Cal Riley. If Kyle Riley, if he they get smoked in the league Championship series and at the end of the year they hand him the MVP and Aaron Judge is the champion. That would probably feel like a consolation prize than a trophy.

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[Alan]

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[Don Hahn]

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Seriously, it's $15 a month.

[Alan]

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[Alan]

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[Alan]

Are you.

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[Don Hahn]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan]

Oh, yeah, baby. All right, let's close it out with your calls. 1-800-919-3776. Chris and Barnegat, you're on ESPN New York. Hi, Chris.

[Caller Chris]

Hey, guys. How you doing?

[Alan]

Good.

[Caller Chris]

So, first things first, before I get to my point, I was watching the game last night and. And my dad, he. He texted me and he was like, you got to send them back out into the eighth. And he's kind of a guy doesn't really watch, like, every game, like, in the regular season like I do. And in my hand, I'm so trained these days to, like, 100 pitches. Like, no way. Like, no way they would ever do that. It's the big 100 pitch mark, and they sent them back out there and it was. This is such a great moment to see those fans going crazy, because that was awesome. But my real point is, where does this rank? Where does this rank on the playoff performances? Obviously, there's some great ones. Roger Clemens and Don Larson, but where does this rank on playoff moments for Yankee pitching?

[Alan]

Well, I still think we have to see where this goes, but, you know, Roger Clemens is Roger Clements. I mean, Don Larson wasn't a Hall of Famer, but he was an established pitcher. Andy Pettit, even though he was 96, he was second in the Cy Young. This is a. This is a kid making his 16th major league start, his first in the postseason. But just right now, Alan, Peter, I think it's top five, but it could age even better if they make a run incredibly unexpected.

[Don Hahn]

Right. That's. That's what you're saying. But. But wonderfully unexpected. Yeah. I thought of Pettit. I just thought, because you also keep in mind the context of Pettit got smoked. I think it was game one, or is it game two? He got smoked in the World Series there. And so for him to bounce back and give you that kind of a gritty performance.

[Alan]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

In that game five, I mean, that. That said a lot about him. So I was thinking of that last night. You know, I can't really Think if Phil Hughes had one or, you know, Jabba back in the day. Was there some. Was there one of them having a moment? But it's pretty special. But I was seeing. The only reason why I said it was because, Don, I was seeing people last night, like, greatest performance by a Yankee pitcher. I'm like, guys, perfect game's perfect game. You can't come in the World Series. Like, let's. Let's not. Let's not go there.

[Alan]

I understand, but that was game five of the World Series. This is. And again, this is a perfect game. Right. But it's. It's facing elimination. A must win situation.

[Don Hahn]

Because.

[Alan]

What were we talking about yesterday, Alan? If the Yankees lose, this is a failure of a season. The guy that saved your season.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Alan]

And you can't kind of forget that even though they put it together last night offensively and did enough, not getting the long ball from their long ball guys. You needed a great pitching performance to win. It would have been losing to the Red Sox again in a year when. When you really feel you're a better team than that. Whatever the records say, Peter, what you're.

[Don Hahn]

Saying is you needed a. You needed someone to step up and be a star, be a hero. And it came from a guy who started the season in double A.

[Alan]

You. What I'm saying is I need a hero just for one day. Who? Something, Something in the something of the night. I don't know if we're on the same song, but.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. You're singing different songs.

[Alan]

I'm doing David Bowie. What do you got?

[Don Hahn]

No, I Need a Hero. You were doing Bonnie Tyler. Bonnie Tyler.

[Alan]

I'm taking. I win that face.

[Don Hahn]

Holding out for hero.

[Alan]

I want to clean. I just don't know if I know the song you were referring.

[Don Hahn]

Which.

[Alan]

Which Bowie song? No. We Could Be Heroes. We Can Be heroes. Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Don Hahn]

Covered by Dylan's son. That was in a movie last, like, 20 years.

[Alan]

Mariah Carey. Hero.

[Don Hahn]

Mariah Carey had a hero song that was humongous.

[Alan]

The great Enrique Iglesias, Javier and Queens. You're on espn, New York. Hey, what's up, guys? Great show today.

[Peter]

Thanks for taking the call.

[Don Hahn]

I feel like we're leaking oil as we go down the stretch, though.

[Peter]

I do feel like not at all.

[Don Hahn]

Trying to get to the finish line here.

[Alan]

And Don, I gotta say, your newfound Yankee fandom, I can't speak for everybody. Wow. But over here, there's move, there's movement. Wow. I love this fandom.

[Don Hahn]

Welcome.

[Alan]

I should lay out yesterday a Sopranos quote worked for Me. So I'm gonna quote the great Baki Bobby Bakalieri AKA Bobby Bacala. To the victor belongs the spoil.

[Peter]

Right?

[Alan]

So let's celebrate today Yankee Nation and listen for for the the series coming up. Toronto's been on ice and the Yankees can take advantage. Take game one and then you got.

[Peter]

A clear shot at the alcs.

[Alan]

And I love the storyline going on right now. Lined up their pitchers and that's the advantage hobby. And thank you for the phone call. I think I'd rather be the Yankees. I think I'd rather be riding a high. I might be a little tired, short turnaround and all that. But the race is going to start with them having, you know, running 10 yards behind. They're going to hit the start line already moving and the Blue Jays are, you can hope maybe catch them flat footed.

[Don Hahn]

Maybe remains to be seen. Like I said, rest versus rust.

[Alan]

Well, it's always a conversation in sports and we're going to continue to have it coming up. Monday's going to be big because we're not only going to have where the Yankees are.

[Don Hahn]

Who's up two.

[Alan]

Oh, is it even at one Jackson.

[Don Hahn]

Dart gonna get a second win.

[Alan]

Oh yeah, they get their first win. Oh, there's gonna be so much happening on Monday. Really looking forward to it. We'll have an NFL binge. Oh, come on. It's gonna be pretty incredible. So enjoy all of the baseball, enjoy all of the football and enjoy Ty Butler. He's gonna be coming up next. So my man, it was a phenomenal weekend. Peter, I know you're gonna be traveling, but you will be with us on Monday. We're looking forward to that. And then you'll be on the other end of the planet. Yes, ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

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