Hour 4: Defending Glenn?

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg

Episode: Hour 4: Defending Glenn?
Date: October 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode is centered around the mounting criticism of New York Jets rookie head coach Aaron Glenn. Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg break down Glenn’s rocky start, reacting to passionate callers, and debating whether the tough early results are a sign he’s in over his head or simply growing pains for a new head coach. The discussion delves into the specifics of recent controversial decisions, the logic behind Glenn's hiring and contract, and the culture of sports media and fandom in New York.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Caller Frustration Over Aaron Glenn’s Decisions (00:43–03:36)

• Bobby from Belmore highlights specific in-game management blunders, such as field goal calculations and end-of-half decisions, suggesting Glenn is "over his head."
• Don and Alan acknowledge Glenn mishandled postgame explanations and the pressure on first-time head coaches.
  • Quote:
    • "It just shows you he's over his head."
      —Bobby (01:38)
  • Hahn’s Take:
    • "When you're the guy that makes the last decision, when you're the guy that has to quickly process, like, what to do... it is not for everyone."
      —Alan Hahn (02:34)
  • Don’s Defense: Glenn’s postgame confusion is part of the learning curve, even if it’s frustrating so early in his tenure.

2. Context for Coaching Mistakes: The Field Goal Decision (03:36–05:00)

• Don contextualizes Glenn’s decision to settle for a certain field goal yardage in London, mentioning unique pregame conditions affecting kicker confidence.
  • Quote:
    • "If your kicker tells you or you saw with your own eyes in the pregame, he's not kicking anything that's over 50, what do you want the coach to do?"
      —Don La Greca (04:28)
• Alan cautions against coaches publicly blaming players for performance, emphasizing the need to maintain locker room unity.

3. The End of the First Half: A Bigger Blunder? (05:00–05:36)

• Multiple hosts agree that mishandling the end of the first half, by not even attempting a play, was far worse than the kicking confusion.
  • Quote:
    • "Sitting on your hands and literally watching the clock run out... That made no sense. At least a Hail Mary."
      —Peter Rosenberg (05:14)
• This incident is used as evidence of Glenn not yet being comfortable as the final decision-maker.

4. Is Don “Defending Glenn”? (08:02–09:06)

• Vinny from Staten Island accuses Don of excessive defense over three days, reflecting the impatience of the fan base.
• Don, Alan, and Peter clarify: stating that Glenn won’t be fired soon is not the same as defending his performance.
  • Quote:
    • "I'm not defending him. It's not been good. I'm just saying I don't believe they're going to fire him."
      —Don La Greca (09:30)
  • They explain that Glenn’s five-year contract reflects a long-term rebuilding plan and lack of appealing coaching candidates.

5. Why Did Glenn Take the Job? The Realities Behind the Hire (09:57–11:23)

• Alan breaks down why Glenn accepted the Jets’ offer; few wanted the difficult job, so Glenn demanded job security and money.
  • Quote:
    • "Nobody wanted the job. Nobody wanted. The only one person wanted it, he didn't get a call and that was Rex Ryan."
      —Alan Hahn (10:09)
• The hosts discuss how Glenn’s contract is more about institutional assurances than a projection of how long the rebuild will take.

6. The Never-Ending New York Sports Pressure Cooker (14:38–16:49)

• Don argues that logic and patience often get drowned out by the volume of “fire the coach” narratives in NYC sports media.
  • Quote:
    • "It's easy to just say he should be fired... it feeds the narrative because again, the sneaky little secret about sports radio is try to find something to go on a limb on. But make sure that limb is thick."
      —Don La Greca (16:04)
  • The perpetual skepticism towards teams like the Jets, Knicks, Mets, and Islanders is described as “safe” but reductive sports radio fodder.

7. Fan Perceptions and Host Response (17:02–18:14)

• Alan observes frustration comes not from what’s said, but from what’s not said—the expectation is hosts loudly call for firings.

  • Quote:
    • "If you're not calling for his job and screaming at the top of your lungs as if he committed a crime, you must be defending him."
      —Alan Hahn (17:22)

• Alan and Don further dissect Glenn’s unique challenge: first head coaching gig at any level, immense scrutiny, and a staff full of first-timers.

8. Leadership Structure and Jets Dysfunction (20:00–21:29)

• A caller and Alan both lament the lack of clear authoritative leadership at the Jets: the owner wants “collective control,” making it hard to establish culture.
  • Quote:
    • "Institutional control is exactly what Woody Johnson doesn't want. He wants collective control... He wants to know that if players aren't happy, I can talk to them."
      —Alan Hahn (20:50)
• The result: inexperience throughout the staff and front office, chaotic decision making.

9. The "Insurance" of Long-Term Contracts & Turnaround Timelines (22:48–23:46)

• Hosts clarify: five-year contract is not a prediction of a five-year rebuild but insurance for Glenn.
  • Quote:
    • "The five years is the insurance that if in a year and a half... it hasn't taken yet. Because look in Detroit, in a year and a half it hadn't took yet."
      —Alan Hahn (22:55)
• Account is given of modern NFL turnarounds, with other teams turning things quickly—in contrast to the Jets’ protracted process.

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Notable Quotes

• "When you're the guy that makes the last decision...it is not for everyone."
  — Alan Hahn (02:34)

• "If your kicker tells you...he's not kicking anything over 50, what do you want the coach to do?"
  — Don La Greca (04:28)

• "Sitting on your hands and literally watching the clock run out... That made no sense. At least a Hail Mary."
  — Peter Rosenberg (05:14)

• "I'm not defending him. It's not been good. I'm just saying I don't believe they're going to fire him."
  — Don La Greca (09:30)

• "Nobody wanted the job...that was Rex Ryan."
  — Alan Hahn (10:09)

• "It's easy to just say he should be fired...it feeds the narrative."
  — Don La Greca (16:04)

• "If you're not calling for his job and screaming at the top of your lungs...you must be defending him."
  — Alan Hahn (17:22)

• "Institutional control is exactly what Woody Johnson doesn't want...So you can't bring in somebody here who is the bona fide leader, the final say."
  — Alan Hahn (20:50)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:43–01:51: Bobby from Belmore’s critique of Glenn’s field goal management and basic math error
• 01:51–03:36: Don and Alan discuss learning curve for first-time head coaches
• 03:36–05:00: Don explains the context of the field goal decision in London
• 05:00–05:36: Panel agrees end-of-half mismanagement far worse than end-of-game decision
• 08:02–09:06: Vinny from Staten Island challenges Don for "defending" Glenn
• 09:57–11:23: Hahn outlines why Glenn accepted the job under tough circumstances
• 14:38–16:49: Don critiques the reflexive “fire the coach” media coverage and fan impatience
• 17:02–18:14: Alan clarifies what constitutes "defending" a coach on air
• 20:00–21:29: Discussion about lack of leadership and Woody Johnson's influence
• 22:48–23:46: Clarification on the five-year contract as "insurance," not a timeline

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The hosts maintain their signature blend of exasperation, humor, and New York sports realism.
• They push back against the more reactionary fan and caller demands, emphasizing process, logic, and the built-in dysfunctions of Jets management, rather than simply joining in the public outcry.
• Throughout, the hosts deliver sharp commentary on NYC sports media culture, highlighting the tension between rational analysis and the demands of an impatient fanbase.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

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[B]

1-800-919-3776. Bobby in Belmore. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, man?

[C]

Bobby.

[B]

Oh, Bob. Let's listen.

[C]

Right. Three in my six, nine. Yeah. I think today's the 12th day.

[B]

Wait, Bobby. Bobby.

[C]

Hello?

[B]

What's going on?

[D]

You guys having a little dinner party?

[B]

Yeah. What's happening? I need to know everything.

[C]

Sorry, man. All right, listen. 16 runs and 17 innings for Freed and, well, Dan. 5 runs in 40 innings for Snelling Yamanoto. So we know who got the better deal of that, but so far that's true. I want to get to Aaron Glenn. Let me get to Aaron Glenn. He said he had to get to the 35 yard line to kick the field goal.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Volk just kicked a 58 yarder two weeks prior. Now, I graduated elementary school and 35 plus 18 is 53. So it just shows you he's over his head. I mean, what's he saying that for? I don't understand that at all.

[B]

The way he handled the post game press conference, Bobby, and then how he came back and kind of reversed things the next day tells you that he's in over his head. There's no question. But I think that's okay for a first time head coach. I know you don't want to hear that we're six games in. These are the things that I guess are going to happen now. They shouldn't be tolerated. I don't think he's going to tolerate it. You just hope he learns from it. If that happens in week 15, 16, 17 guys, well, they didn't learn from it and maybe he's got to go. But right now we are learning not just here, but other places. And we found this out in New York. Many, many Times. Great coordinators don't always become great head coaches because there's other garbage you got to worry about.

[A]

It also tells you that when you've never done the job before, your first game is your first experience doing it right. No matter how much you have the headset on and you've heard the conversation, you know what's going on. When you're the guy that makes the last decision, when you're the guy that has to quickly process, like, what to do. Like, you saw Callahan in Tennessee. He couldn't do it. He was overwhelmed by that role and they finally realized he just can't do it. Like, I think for Aaron Glenn, you have to see is, can he finally, as a coach, get into a groove where he can handle everything coming at him? Because it is not for everyone. And he could be a smart football guy. He could know football. He played the game and at the highest level, he played in the NFL. He was a really good player. But this is a different animal when you have all this information coming at you. And by the way, it's no longer one side of the ball, both sides of the ball, you've got to be on point and you've got to have an answer in seconds, and it's got.

[B]

To be the right answer. And also to defend Glenn and also if you want to defend Falk. I was in Columbus. It was really weird. I'm in Columbus, Ohio, right where the Buckeyes play. And my hotel, really good hotel, had the NHL network but didn't have the NFL network. So I had. So I listened to Bob Washuzen's call of the game. I listened to it because I wanted to, you know, follow what was going on. You know, they do a great job with Anthony back going into that in that last drive, Anthony said numerous times he watched Falk in the pregame and he was not looking good.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, this game is in London. You're playing on a soccer field, you know, so I'm. I know he kicked the 58 yard field goal a few weeks ago. I'm sure he taught Falk, maybe told him, listen, you got to get to the 35. I tried him in the pre game. It's not going. So what is he supposed to do? Well, in a completely different country, he hit a 58 yard field goal. If your kicker tells you or you saw with your own eyes in the pregame, he's not kicking anything that's over 50. What do you want? What do you want the coach to do?

[A]

And what else? And also what you don't want him to do is after the game goes, yeah, I watched him in pregame. He was not going to make exactly like you can't. You don't throw your player under the bus and say something like that. So you have to own it and you have to just say this is what we were doing and leave it there and let everybody else figure it out. Let everybody else do the dirty work to find out. Somebody told me that this happened and that's why they didn't do that.

[B]

As ugly as the end of the game was and as critical as you want to be, the thing that you should focus on is the end of the first half. I thought that was much worse.

[A]

Completely agree.

[D]

Oh, that was the standout moment.

[B]

End of the game was bad, but not nearly as bad.

[D]

Sitting on your hands and literally watching the clock run out.

[B]

That made no sense. At least a Hail Mary.

[A]

Something it looked like he had no confidence in his quarterback and didn't trust him to make a play that could have cost him because again, Denver had timeouts. He was afraid they were going to use him and try to get a quick score. So he didn't want that.

[D]

Which means he didn't even run a play. Made him look so nuts.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's the one that you should focus on. That was bad. Really bad. Oh hey, love your shoes. If you're hearing this, this is your.

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[A]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[B]

Of $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan, options available. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com let's go to Vinnie. Staten Island. Johnny SBN, New York.

[C]

What's up, Don? You gotta stop defending Aaron. You gotta stop defending him. You're doing it three days already.

[D]

Aaron.

[C]

Dude, the guy is lost. The guy is completely lost.

[B]

I don't think I'm defending him as much as I don't think he's going anywhere. Vinny. They gave him a five year contract.

[C]

I got friends call me up and say what is Don saying? He's defending this guy for three days.

[D]

But your friends don't know the meaning of defending. All he said was that he doesn't think that they're gonna move on. I think they're gonna. I, I think there's a chance they could move on after this year if it's horrible. But all Don saying is he doesn't think that they will.

[B]

But I just defended him on the last play. But where else have I defended him? I'm just telling you I don't think he's going anywhere. It's been bad, but I think you just got to be patient. But where have I defended him?

[C]

It's nothing to be patient about. You could just tell he don't got it.

[B]

But I'm just asking.

[D]

That's not how it works though.

[B]

How have I defended him?

[C]

You've been just saying you've been defending it for three days. Just defending on the radio. For three days. He's got it. You got to give him a chance.

[A]

So what we want to do here is just yell and scream, fire Aaron Glenn, who's got a multi year contract, that the owner's not going to fire him.

[C]

The owner's gonna. Owner might buy him by Thanksgiving. If they don't. If they don't have a win by Thanksgiving, he might be gone.

[B]

Vinny, I don't see him again. They gave him a five from what I understand. And Vinnie, I'm not gonna.

[D]

You're defending him, Don?

[B]

I'm not defending him. I'm just. It's not been good. I'm just saying I don't believe they're going to fire him. They gave a first time head coach a five year contract because they knew.

[A]

It would be a long rebuild.

[B]

And from what I understand, nobody knows the amount of money he's being paid. But I've been told by people that it's more than they usually give a first time head coach. So I don't even want to guess what it is, but it's more than you usually give a first time.

[A]

Can I fill a couple of blanks?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Number one, why do you think he would only take the job beyond a three or four year deal?

[B]

Because he wants to know that he's going to have some time here.

[A]

He knows this is going to be a tough. Right? This is going to be tough. I named the time and I'm going to remind everybody. Nobody wanted the job, right? Nobody wanted. The only one person wanted it, he didn't get a call and that was Rex Ryan.

[B]

Right? Rex Ryan.

[A]

Nobody wanted the job. Mike Tyne, remember Mike Tannenbaum and the, the 33rd team? They like were part of the group that was helping, you know, bring them candidates and like candidates would like go through the experience of an interview. Nobody wanted the job. Nobody really legitimately wanted the job. Remember the Belichick thing late, how he was interested and we were like, what?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, he's not like, it just shows you that's the problem. And so to get a guy like Aaron Glenn, which was at a time where the jets were putting out fires everywhere, I mean, they were a dumpster fire literally at the end of last season, going into the off season, the only thing they could do is like, Glenn is a good PR hire, It's good media hire, it's good for the fans hire. It's a guy with blows. But he's like. And again with, with Bill Parcells in his ear. This is a high risk for a rookie Coach type job. So give me, especially give me. Give me insurance, give me length, and also give me the money.

[D]

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[A]

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[D]

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[A]

She's ordering the packages twice a day.

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[B]

Oh, we get to meet, so we'll swing by.

[D]

There may be a Maya. Assuming she's awake, she could be asleep. But there may be a Maya meeting situation occurring here in about 15 minutes.

[B]

Looking forward to it.

[A]

Three men and a baby.

[B]

Photo, more of your calls and more defending of Glenn on Don Lurecka's show with Alan Hahn.

[D]

That was interesting. Boy.

[B]

Peter Rosenberg. Let's just get to break.

[E]

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[A]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[D]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[A]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Sneaky good song. Right Jake? Sneaky good song.

[B]

So again, I don't think the jets are parting ways with Aaron Glenn. It's got to get better. But I think they knew that this was going to be a work in progress. And to Allen's point, they gave him a five year deal because he knew if you give me a three year deal and the first year is going to be just thrown away. He didn't have to take this job. Now I'm coaching with a second, you know, a second year. He could have stayed in Detroit, waited for more jobs to open up, but he saw an opportunity. Everybody wanted to. And I still believe this. I can't prove it, but I still believe he was told Aaron Rodgers didn't come back. You want to take ownership with it. You want to say it was your decision, part of your decision, all that he wasn't coming back. So you're taking one of my best players away. And now I'm going to, I'm going to be saddled with Justin Fields as my quarterback and you're telling me I got to win games, otherwise I'm going to be out of a job. And Woody Johnson is going to, you know, pay a head coach not to coach for four years and then have to pay another coach on top of that to come in here. And who else is going to want this job? Or maybe the attractiveness of the first overall pick?

[A]

Stop.

[B]

That's. But that, that's not going to convince guys to want to come here. So he's not going anywhere, guys. Now year two, you're still seeing these mistakes, but I do think there's a chance he can get better. Six games in, not good. But you got to try to grasp it. Whatever you can cut down on the penalties. Did that defense look really good? That's his ballywit guys, right? He's going to get his signature on this team. Not by making offense. He's not an offensive guy. He's not an offensive coach. He's a defensive coach. And this defense looked really good. Not the defense's fault that they lost. So there's a lot of things going on, but it's easy to just say he should be fired. He's the worst. Coaching jets, it feeds the narrative because again, the sneaky little secret about sports radio is try to find something to go on a limb on. But make sure that limb is thick. Make sure it's strong. It can hold 350 pounds. That's why guys like Colin Cowherd all the Knicks will never win with Carmelo Anthony. Oh, the Knicks who haven't won A championship since 1973 aren't going to win. Oh, that's good. Jets, you know what? Err on the side of them to suck because you'll probably be right 90% of the time.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

That's good sports radio. But instead maybe just throwing some logic in. But that's no fun so far. Well, so we'll just stick with the things we know.

[A]

What do you think?

[B]

The jets will never win. The Mets will never win. The Islanders will never win.

[A]

It's. It's. What do you think Vinnie was looking.

[B]

For in that call Vinny is looking for?

[A]

He was looking for when he says, my friends are texting me. That means we're all mad that you're defending a guy that we all think should be fired.

[D]

Well, not only that, we're so mad that they hear anything as defense because no one's even been defending Peter.

[A]

That doesn't matter because if you're not calling for his job and screaming at the top of your lungs as if he committed a crime, you must be defending him. And what I'm saying is he didn't have to take this job. Right? But he took it. But he had to take it with some insurance. He got good guidance. And the idea of that's that place could be hell. This could ruin your career. So you need some assurances and the length of the contract and the amount of the contract gives you the assurances that if, if the jets jet and I'm out of here in a year, I Got a lot of money in my pocket, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you got to think of it that way and no one will blame me. But as I've said, he is a. The first time he's ever been a head coach in any level was the first game he coached, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He's never done this before, so this is going to be a learning curve for him, too, and he's got to figure it out. And, oh, by the way, he brought in Steve Wilkes, who's been a head coach as a defensive coordinator, probably because he felt like that'll take some pressure off. Promise. Steve Wilkes has been in like seven different places in seven different years. He never stays anywhere for a reason.

[B]

But I think just the idea. When I've got a rookie offensive coordinator, I got a rookie general manager. That's the guy that didn't need to be a rookie.

[A]

To me, the offensive coordinator, which is not your expertise. You're a defensive expert. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

That didn't need to be. You didn't need an experienced defensive coordinator. You could have handled that like Rex did. But the offense, you needed somebody that knows what the hell they're doing. And Angstrom has never done this before.

[B]

And this is why the whole season was treated as a soft open, because they knew it wasn't going to be good. Now this has been bad. They got to figure it out. Defending him is saying it wasn't bad. It's bad. But the. What I'm saying is it's not going to get him fired. Stop. All right. Not yet.

[A]

Yeah, it takes another year at least. But I'm just saying they've got to. They're trying to figure it out while the place is on fire.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

But it's always on.

[B]

It's always on fire. That's the thing. And that's the way, you know, that's what we were just talking about. The Knicks need to get off to a good start because you know how it is in New York.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get off to a slow start. That should have never let Tibs go. Fig. You know, typical Knicks. Supposed to be great, not great. That's just how you know that going in.

[A]

And you can't tempt down expectations no matter how hard you try. They're. They.

[B]

Are.

[A]

They.

[B]

Some Jet fans even had expectations this year.

[A]

Yeah, well, that was.

[B]

Yeah. CT in Connecticut. You're on ESPN New York.

[C]

Hey, Don. How you doing? Happy hockey season.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. A couple of comments. Number one, somebody called in a little earlier about Yacht Rock. They failed to mention all the notes or Seals and Cross.

[D]

I didn't mention it was a bizarro list, but it was his personal list.

[A]

Yeah, it was his own.

[C]

Listen, Ambrosia deserves to be on there. 10cc. A little bit of a cut, but, you know, anyways, Aaron Glenn, I think. I think obviously the general management of the whole team needs to be under scrutiny for this, but some people are leaders and some are not. And I think we're finding out pretty quickly that Aaron Glenn is not a leader. Not by what he's doing on the field, not by what he's doing in practice, but just in the college game. They say lack of institutional control, and I think that's what you have here. And I think the faster you get rid of it and they're not going to do anything this season. Right. But if they go, oh, and 17, you're not going to run this back. You can't. But they have a lack of institutional control from the coaching staff down to the players.

[B]

It's got to get better.

[A]

It starts at the very, very top, though. Again, the institutional control is exactly what Woody Johnson did. Doesn't want. He doesn't want that. He wants collective control. He wants a say. He wants to know that if players aren't happy, I can talk to them and ask them why they're not happy and help them fix it. Where you should not be doing any of that. So you can't bring in somebody here who is the bona fide leader, the final say, the one voice. He doesn't want, want that. So no matter who it is, it's never going to be that. That's why he brings in coaches who don't have experience.

[B]

They all do this now, too. It's all just. The jets were the first to start it, but everybody's doing it now. It's all collaborative. We all get together. There still has to be somebody in charge. But who is that going to be? Is it going to be Wilkes? Because he's got experience. Woody doesn't know anything about football. And now your offensive coordinator and your head coach are newbies to their position. It's hard. It's hard. Steve in New Fairfield. You're on espn, New York.

[C]

Hey, guys. I'm just ripping, man. I have not checked out for some reason. I watch every stupid game. I watch every post game with Bart and Willie. My boiling point came before the half. And everybody constantly talks about this, including Glenn, that they didn't want to give a goal back to Denver. Okay, with the timeouts, why would you not snap the ball with four seconds? Left, you're on the 50. It doesn't. It's only going to Hail Mary. 45 yards. You could get a pass on the floor. It's a tipped ball. That made no sense. The ball back. And I'm not giving up on a D yet. But that was a major misstep. And one thing, Al, I love you, brother. I know you're talking about why they get in the five years. We need the quarterback. But teams turn around things much more quickly today with turnover in roster, free agency.

[A]

Five years.

[C]

It doesn't have to take five years.

[A]

I want to be clear the five years isn't because that's how long it's going to take. No, the five years is the insurance.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

That if in a year and a half this is this. It hasn't taken yet. Because look in Detroit, in a year and a half it hadn't took yet.

[B]

Right.

[A]

By the end of year two, it started to take. So you got to survive year two.

[B]

A perfect example is Peter Laviolette with the Rangers. He was given a three year contract to see if they can't take advantage of the window of them winning a championship. Go conference, file the first year, miss the playoffs the second year. I'm not going lame duck in the third. So I got to either give a contract extension or I got to let him go. They let him go when it's three years and the first years could be bad. Now all of a sudden that three year contract becomes a two year contract because he's not going to be allowed to go into that final year. Five years gives you a little bit more wiggle room. 00:17. We'll see if that changes the narrative. Tomorrow. 5 o', clock, I'll be at the Rock for the Devil's home opener. So we're looking forward to that and get closer and closer.

[D]

By five o'.

[C]

Clock.

[D]

We start at three though.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

On the Donker show starts at five o'.

[B]

Clock.

[A]

Oh, is that what it is? The Don Show.

[B]

ASPN New York.

[A]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN News York app and your smart speakers.

[E]

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