Hour 4: Eli 1st Ballot?

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Hour 4: Eli 1st Ballot?
Release Date: February 5, 2025
Hosts: Don LaGreca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Duration: Approximately 25 minutes

---

Introduction

In Hour 4: Eli 1st Ballot?, the hosts of the "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" podcast delve into the contentious topic of whether Eli Manning deserves to be a first ballot inductee into the Pro Football Hall of Fame for the Class of 2025. The discussion is rich with analysis, personal opinions, and audience interaction, making it a comprehensive examination of Manning's career and legacy.

---

Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2025

Alan Hahn opens the conversation by highlighting that this year's Pro Football Hall of Fame ballot features six first ballot nominees, a notably strong class. He brings into question whether first ballot status is the most significant criterion or if the presence of other deserving candidates dilutes the chances for some, including Eli Manning.

Alan Hahn (01:13): "This year's class at Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2025. And on the ballot this year for the modern, I should say era, there are, if I'm counting correctly, six first ballot nominees."

---

Debating First Ballot Status

Peter Rosenberg expresses skepticism about the emphasis placed on first ballot inductions in football, suggesting it's more pertinent to baseball. He notes that in a strong class, deserving players like Manning might not secure first ballot status merely because the selection committee has to limit the number of inductees.

Peter Rosenberg (01:27): "That's why the first ballot is silly because from what I understand, it's definitely a maximum of five."

Don LaGreca counters by emphasizing that first ballot status should signify unquestionable excellence, reserved for those whose contributions to the game are beyond debate.

Don LaGreca (03:13): "He's a Hall of Famer. He's a Hall of Famer. He's not first ballot. His regular season wasn't good enough. It just wasn't."

The hosts delve into Eli Manning's career, comparing his achievements to other nominees like Jared Allen, Reggie Wayne, and Terry Bradshaw. They discuss his Super Bowl victories, durability, and clutch performances, weighing them against regular season statistics and overall career impact.

---

Eli Manning’s Case for First Ballot

Despite mixed opinions among the hosts, Eli Manning's supporters highlight his two Super Bowl MVPs, consistent playoff performances, and his ability to win crucial games against formidable opponents like Patrick Mahomes and the New England Patriots.

Peter Rosenberg (10:32): "But he is rare, though it's tough to compare."

Don LaGreca shares his admiration for Manning's resilience and leadership, arguing that his performance in high-pressure situations compensates for less stellar regular-season numbers.

Don LaGreca (13:08): "He never scared me to play against him... he was just completely unfazed."

---

Audience Interaction and Caller Opinions

The podcast features calls from listeners who passionately defend Eli Manning's Hall of Fame credentials:

• Caller Mike (15:01): Argues that Manning's Super Bowl victories, especially against historically great teams, solidify his case for first ballot induction.

  Mike: "He made one of the greatest throws... he never got hurt."

• Caller Will (17:54): Emphasizes Manning's clutch performances and his role in a successful Giants franchise, drawing parallels to other first ballot Hall of Famers like Jim Kelly.

  Will: "Clutch time and how you play in clutch time... that's more important than a lot of other."

These perspectives underscore the debate surrounding Manning's legacy, balancing statistical achievements with momentous career highlights.

---

Comparative Analysis with Other Nominees

The hosts compare Manning's career to other nominees, questioning whether his accomplishments stack up against players with longer or more statistically impressive careers. They scrutinize aspects like Pro Bowl selections, statistical milestones, and team success.

Peter Rosenberg (09:03): "He's got one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time thrown to him. Did lead the league in receiving yards in 2007."

Alan Hahn and Don LaGreca discuss whether Manning's leadership and pivotal game-winning drives should outweigh pure statistics, especially given his role in securing two Super Bowl titles.

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts acknowledge that while Eli Manning may not fit the traditional mold of a first ballot Hall of Famer based on regular-season statistics alone, his superior performance in critical moments, leadership, and legacy within the Giants franchise present a compelling case. The debate remains open-ended, with the hosts agreeing to continue the discussion in future episodes.

Don LaGreca (15:01): "But you look at it and you think about what he did and that's just who he is. There's no denying it."

Alan Hahn (20:24): "This is definitely a conversation that we should continue into tomorrow for sure."

---

Notable Quotes

• Alan Hahn (02:55): "Is this something that is sacrosanct? Something that only a select few people earn?"
• Don LaGreca (07:53): "I've had fun with Giants fans at times hating on Eli."
• Peter Rosenberg (12:02): "If you have to do the pause and the hesitation that gives you that reason to think, I'm not sure."

---

Final Remarks

The episode provides a multifaceted discussion on Eli Manning's potential first ballot induction into the Hall of Fame, balancing statistical analysis with personal testimonials and listener input. It serves as an engaging resource for fans debating Manning's legacy and his rightful place among football's elite.

---

Tune In:
Catch more insightful discussions on "Don, Hahn & Rosenberg" weekday afternoons starting at 3 PM on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.

Transcript

[Alan Hahn]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this.

[Don LaGreca]

But anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.

[Alan Hahn]

So do like I did and have.

[Don LaGreca]

One of your assistant's assistants switch you.

[Peter Rosenberg]

To Mint Mobile today.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm told it's super easy to do. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms. @mintmobile.com this Don Han at Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers. All right, 6:00 hour with Don Legreck and Peter Rosenberg. I'm Alan Hahn, 800-919-3776. Let's have at it here real quick, guys, because we'll find out tomorrow. The this year's class at Pro Football hall of fame class of 2025. And on the ballot this year for the modern, I should say era, there are, if I'm counting correctly, six first ballot nominees.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And is that what matters most or is it just all those who are eligible? Because there are some other names here that you could say could be worthy but weren't in their first year. So they're waiting and they could get precedent over someone else.

[Peter Rosenberg]

See, that's why the first ballot is silly because from what I understand, it's definitely a maximum of five.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I believe the minimum is four. So if you happen to be eligible in a really weak class, then you're probably gonna be a first ballot hall of Famer because they have to come up with four. But this is a pretty strong class. So Eli might not be first ballot, not because he's not worthy, but he's just unfortunately not worthy. Among the other guys that that are eligible now, there's some guys that have been waiting a long time that I think probably deserve to get in. Like you said, Jared Allen, he's a lock for the hall of Fame. Well, he last played in 2015, so he's been eligible for a while and hasn't gotten in. So is this the year for him?

[Alan Hahn]

Tory Holt's on there too. Six years he's been waiting. Reggie Wayne's been waiting six years.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. Fred Taylor's been waiting for a while now. His last year was in 2010.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, you know, it's interesting too, like the Super Bowls with Eli just loom so large. It was Eli a better player than Reggie Wayne who was like consistently good every single.

[Alan Hahn]

So how about we play this game then when we'll get to the calls, we'll get to some people's opinions on this because this has been a. We've been talking about this forever since Eli did retire. Right. Do we put a lot of emphasis on first ballot? Like, is that something that you think is. What's the word you always say? Sacrosan. Right. You always feel like it is like this important thing that only a select few people earn. Do we believe that with this. Is this something that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think it's a baseball thing. I don't think it's a football thing.

[Alan Hahn]

Doesn't work in football.

[Don LaGreca]

But people do say they do in across hall of Fames. People love the phrase first ballot hall of Famer.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah. It says that is. It means you were in no doubt.

[Don LaGreca]

And real quick on the surface, just don't even think answer. Alan, is Eli Manning a first ballot hall of Famer?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don LaGreca]

Don.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

No, he's not a first ballot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why not?

[Don LaGreca]

He's a Hall of Famer. He's a Hall of Famer. He's not first ballot. His regular season wasn't good enough. It just wasn't. But he's getting in because of the rings. He's not getting.

[Alan Hahn]

Then why does it matter when.

[Don LaGreca]

But I'm just saying in terms of my mind, if you believe, which a lot of people do, that first ballot matters. It should be people that you literally. There's not a debate about whether they're hall of Famers.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm going to give Derek Jeter is a.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why would there be even. But there's always going to be different guys that are better. But like he's in the top 10 in yardage, he's the top 10 in touchdowns. Like he compiled. I know.

[Alan Hahn]

And don't tell me he played a long time, so his numbers are big because he also played a long time, which says a lot. He played every game. They had to drag him off the field, literally. They had to tell him, no, you're not playing. That has to stand for something.

[Don LaGreca]

It does.

[Alan Hahn]

I think it's durability, availability, all those things matter.

[Don LaGreca]

Part of why he's a Hall of Famer. He does not hit me in the head as first ballot hall of Famer.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a thing. But that's what. But it just, it seems it's a silly debate because in baseball they don't have to elect anyone Right.

[Alan Hahn]

All right.

[Don LaGreca]

They don't even like their.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They can elect 10. I don't even think there's a. Just double check, Anthony. I don't think there's a maximum, but in football, if you got to take a minimum of four, but a maximum of five, then in a year where there's 15 hall of Famers, well, you might not be first ballot, because there are other guys that need to get in that they don't want to miss out on because they've been waiting for a long time, and they have to. They got to get to five. They can't go over five. What if this was a year where there'd be 15 guys and you're like, none of them are really all that great. So Eli gets in the first ballot, so the timing isn't great for him.

[Alan Hahn]

But do you want to play? Who you taking out?

[Don LaGreca]

Well, can I just say one thing first before you do? I think it's a way to play it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don LaGreca]

When I look at the list of who's up this year, the funny thing is the only name that strikes me as like, oh, my God, first ballot. Is a frigging kicker. Adam Vinatieri.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

Every other name on here are phenomenal players, many hall of Famers, and none of them strike me as, oh, my God, first ballot.

[Alan Hahn]

And that's why I want to play this game, because as we know, it's. It's really less about, are you worthy of it? And more about among these people. They got to pick somebody. Does he get in? Because anyway, status might be higher than these other players. All right, so you've got Vinatieri in there already, so we'll put him at the top of the list. You guys are no brainer, no brainer.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No brainer, no brainer.

[Alan Hahn]

So he's at the very top of the list. So then after that, let's see if there's anybody else that jumps out at you. Eric Allen.

[Don LaGreca]

I love Eric Allen. He was a great player, but there's a reason. He's waited one year already, and he retired in 2001, so he's.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't. I don't feel. I'm not putting him in over.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, Jared Allen.

[Don LaGreca]

Jared Allen is right there. He's. I. I feel like regular season player.

[Alan Hahn]

Impact to me, if you have to do the pause and the hesitation that gives you that reason to think. I'm not sure.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, Eli's a quarterback.

[Alan Hahn]

But I'm saying it's. It's Eli versus these names I'm giving you. That's what we're going to do here, because if we get a list of four, then he's out. Right. So Vinitari has already pushed him down one. So we got one on the list. Okay. Eli versus Eric Allen. You didn't say Jared Allen. We're not going to say either, right?

[Don LaGreca]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay. Willie Anderson.

[Don LaGreca]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Alan Hahn]

Antonio Gates.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah. I mean, it's. He, to me, was one of the two or three best tight ends in his era.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Of his era. Right, right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, at the time, before these.

[Don LaGreca]

Before these new tight ends came along.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But in that. In that period, it was him and Tony Gonzalez. Right. Those were. They were one, two. So I would. Yeah, he's a definite.

[Alan Hahn]

He's in. Okay. So there's two guys on our list.

[Don LaGreca]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

Tori Holt. Been waiting a while.

[Don LaGreca]

Tory Halt's weird, man, because he was.

[Alan Hahn]

Part of a great. Yeah. But it was a short lived.

[Don LaGreca]

He was so good in that moment. But that offense was so good.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Didn't play a ton of what he played nine, 11 years, but he was a. You know, he was.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay. You waste. He went long enough. So we're going to say no. Luke Keakley.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a really good point.

[Don LaGreca]

But really good. Yeah, Good, good.

[Alan Hahn]

But. Right. You're not. Yeah. All right.

[Don LaGreca]

Steve Smith Jr. Steve Smith, senior. That is.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Why does it say Junior on my list?

[Don LaGreca]

I don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

That's weird. Why would it say. Why would it say Junior? And this is, by the way, profootballholofame.com.

[Don LaGreca]

Unless it's the official list. If it's the wide receiver from the Panthers, it's Senior. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

It's the wide receiver from the Panthers. Yes. And it says Senior up top. It says Junior down low on this other list, which is why I said that.

[Don LaGreca]

So I.

[Alan Hahn]

Because I just read everything in front of me. I'm Ron Burgundy.

[Don LaGreca]

I'm a little. I'm Ron Burgundy. I'm a little biased here. I don't know that I'm right, guys. But, like, I love the way that guy played the game. Like, I just sort of think of him ahead of Eli.

[Alan Hahn]

I do.

[Don LaGreca]

I know that may sound crazy, but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love the way that dude, he's got a comeback. Player of the year, five time Pro Bowl, I guess when that did mean something. Played a long time.

[Don LaGreca]

He was an animal.

[Alan Hahn]

This would be three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was an animal, but I don't think he's that.

[Alan Hahn]

Remember, he's also first ballot.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So he's there. Okay, so you're saying not ahead of.

[Don LaGreca]

Eli you know what? Then let's go with Don. That's fine. He's not a quarterback.

[Alan Hahn]

So we still have two.

[Don LaGreca]

He's not going to end up being ahead of a quarterback.

[Alan Hahn]

All right, we still have two then. Another first timer, Terrell Suggs T sizzle. So I mean, I feel like that's a.

[Don LaGreca]

That, that one I think could get tough. Yeah, I mean that's a. Don you're talking about the core. A core piece of an incredible defense over 15.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, listen, he played forever. He was a defensive player of the year. Yeah, I would definitely put him over Eli.

[Don LaGreca]

Sure. I'm putting Terrell Suggs on you.

[Alan Hahn]

All right. Fred Taylor.

[Don LaGreca]

I love Fred Taylor.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love Fred Taylor too.

[Don LaGreca]

Not ahead of Eli.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Don LaGreca]

Although I saw him when I did the pivot. He's a great guy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Do you realize he only went to one Pro Bowl? Now again, Pro Bowl. What does it matter? He's got no hardware.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, no, he's just a damn.

[Alan Hahn]

Moving on. So we got three. All right. Reggie Wayne again, I mean that's.

[Don LaGreca]

Pull up the Reggie Wayne stats. I know my eye.

[Alan Hahn]

Who's throwing?

[Don LaGreca]

Well, yeah, that matters.

[Alan Hahn]

It does matter.

[Don LaGreca]

Matters Playing inside Peyton Manning, but man.

[Alan Hahn]

That guy was good numbers.

[Don LaGreca]

Also was across the field.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was an all super bowl champion, but again, six Pro bowl, but not a lot of hardware.

[Don LaGreca]

How many thousand yard seasons?

[Peter Rosenberg]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 81000 yard season plus a Super Bowl. 3 double digit touchdown seasons. Again, he's got one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time thrown to him. Did lead the league in receiving yards in 2007.

[Alan Hahn]

Again, we got three so far. We got two open spots.

[Don LaGreca]

Listen, even though I think he's actually physically probably a more talented player than Eli Manning, I'm not putting him in ahead of Eli Manning. He didn't beat the Patriots. Darren Woodson not ahead of Eli.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. Okay.

[Don LaGreca]

Nice player though.

[Alan Hahn]

Marshall Yanda.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know, these offensive linemen are tough.

[Alan Hahn]

It's always tough.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But I mean, you're talking about, I don't know, you got to talk.

[Alan Hahn]

Ravens just.

[Don LaGreca]

He protected Joe Flacco to a Super Bowl.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, and again, you're talking about a cornerstone of Raven success on the offensive line.

[Don LaGreca]

But it doesn't. Let's be realistic. No one's jumping out and put an offensive line in the Super Bowl.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We just.

[Alan Hahn]

Eli would be fourth on your list.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think he's got a realistic chance to be first ballot and then we put him in. Certainly does.

[Don LaGreca]

Damn. I just said I didn't think it was first.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ballot what I throw out to all the people like the Mike Greenbergs. But even though Mike Greenberg has been very supportive Eli being a Hall of Famer. But it's just so funny how we conveniently level Patrick Mahomes is the greatest quarterback ever. Look how many Super Bowls he's won in such a short period of time. So we're counting the Super Bowls for him, but the Super Bowls. Now let's take this. Let's take those two Super Bowls out. Pedestrian regular season, which I would debate whether it was pedestrian. It might not be as great as his contemporaries. But sorry, two Super Bowl MVPs, you know, all those road wins, I mean that that has to count for something. You can't conveniently remove them.

[Alan Hahn]

His performance in both NFC championship games heading to the super bowl were iconic.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And the Giants weren't a forever team. Like you could say, well listen to.

[Alan Hahn]

The high end offense to begin with.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They mostly ran the ball and I so and I think to Coughlin deserves to go to the hall of Fame too because not only those two Super Bowls, but he also took Jacksonville to two championship games. But like if Eli's doing it for the Steelers, does it look a little different because the Steelers are perennial winner? You know I think those two years.

[Alan Hahn]

To me it's the in between years. If they had gone to the playoffs and did a little like made noise in between, you know, like maybe, but because it was sort of like super bowl and then like meh and then super bowl, you know, that might have something to do with this as well. But again you go by the clash.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I do think he was robbed of a third opportunity in 08 to win back to back. If Plexigo Burris doesn't shoot himself.

[Alan Hahn]

They were very good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think they got a chance. They lost to the Eagles in the divisional round. I think they got a better chance of making a run there too. And boy, it would look different. All I the one I think I'll say about Eagle, I'm biased so I'm not even going to fight that. Is that when he won the first one it felt like ah, you know, horseshoe fell out of his butt. But then he went and did it.

[Alan Hahn]

Again and he made a picture perfect throw, you know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And well, you know you could say, well the throw to Tyree, that was kind of a fluke. But how about the throw to Manningham?

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, that's what I mean.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That throw, that's a picture picture perfect throw. And in these moments it doesn't happen. Take a look at the History of the Super Bowl. How often do you see game winning drives at the end? Like that's that there's something to that special, you know, so he is rare, though it's tough to compare.

[Alan Hahn]

I think there's something special too. When you. We all talk about arm talent and all the other talent things. And I said this about Mahomes and I believe this. To me it is a talent to have ice water in your veins. There is something special about the player who in the midst of chaos can play serene. Eli is one of those guys you.

[Don LaGreca]

Can argue it's the most important talent.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Don't you think?

[Don LaGreca]

He. Eli. I could talk about Eli all day. He never scared me to play against him, even though the Giants owned us during that time. But he never scared you during a regular season game. Like, oh God, what are we going to get from Eli Manning? The way he physically threw the ball. Never knocked your socks off. The arm strength would never looked incredible. He moved like absolute molasses. All the things you look at you go, what? And then he had. And then nothing bothered him. He was just completely unfazed. And Don, that. That almost makes up for everything else you can say about him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And also the compiling numbers. You say it like pejorative. Oh, he was a compiler. Well, a lot of things have to go well for you to be able to compile, what was it, 216 consecutive starts. You cannot tell me that every one of those starts he was healthy. Matter of fact, I know he wasn't because I was on the air in 2007 when it looked like he separated his shoulder against the Cowboys early in the season. And we were doing shows on Monday, like, how long is he going to be out? And didn't miss a game.

[Alan Hahn]

Crazy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So you can't tell me that every game he was healthy. No way. So that has to count for something.

[Alan Hahn]

Toughness factor.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Where these quarterbacks go down all the time. And this was also during an era where you. It wasn't breathe on wrong and it was a penalty watch. If anybody doesn't like, maybe they're a certain age, go back. Watch that championship game against the 49ers. A candlestick. He was beaten. Pillar to post in that game. Pillar to post. The Williams fumble. Fine. He was on the road candlestick against the 49ers. Getting beat up by that defense. No flags. None of this. Patrick Mahomes, 15 yards because you farted on him. He was getting folded in half and still made every throw and put him in a position to win the game.

[Alan Hahn]

Stepped into every throw like he wasn't ducking anything. Toughness personified.

[Don LaGreca]

He's the man that has to mean I like to. I've had fun with Giants fans at times hating on Eli. And I will tell you, my eye, my eye test says not a first ballot hall of Famer.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Okay?

[Don LaGreca]

But you look at it and you think about what he did and that's just who he is. There's no denying it.

[Alan Hahn]

800-9193776. Do the people deny it? Mike in Richfield Park. You get your chance right now. Go ahead, Mike.

[Caller Mike]

Hey, guys, how are you? I'm really happy to be making this call. I never call you guys, but this is a subject that I really wanted to talk to you guys about. And while I was on hold, I got to tell you, you hit on a lot of the points that I planned on making. But when you think about that he was a passenger, that that was the narrative, that he was a for the super bowl, the Super Bowls that he won. And in reality, he made one of the greatest throws. As Don said, he's handled himself with nothing but class. He never got hurt. The only game that he hurt, the only game that he missed was a BS that they put in Geno Smith. But there's something that. Couple of things that I want to mention while I'm here. If you go through the road victories that he beat Aaron Rodgers on the road, he beat Brett Favre on the road, he has a playoff win against Matt Ryan, who won an mvp. And obviously he's beat one of the greatest teams that we've seen in the last 40 years.

[Don LaGreca]

Twice.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Twice.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, the undefeated team.

[Don LaGreca]

But let's be honest, both teams were impressive.

[Caller Mike]

There's one thing that I can go ahead. No, I'm sorry. If there's one thing. If I can just ask. If we're talking about this first ballot hall of Famer conversation, that's fine. But I think if we take out and he only won one super bowl, whether you choose that he won the the undefeated Patriots team or he just won the second super bowl, then maybe we could have a conversation that he's not a first ballot hall of Famer. But since that he's won both, I don't see how it's even the debate. And I think when we get the news tomorrow, we're going to see that he's a first ballot hall of Famer. I want to hear you guys talk. Have a great night, guys.

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks, Mike.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you know, the pedestrian numbers, and certainly they don't necessarily hold up to what we're seeing quarterbacks, but he came within 67 yards of throwing for 5,000 yards in 2011, consistently threw for over 4,000 yards. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 times. One time he was, you know, 52 yards away from another 4,000. So he did throw a lot of interceptions, but so did Brett Favre. So did Joe Namath. Now, so you want to look at again, I mean, it's hard to compare the numbers. Take a look at Joe Namath. Yeah, he didn't completed 50% of his passes through more picks than touchdown. And you talk just one super bowl, right? Not trying to take anything away from Namath.

[Alan Hahn]

But again, and that's the whole thing, a lot of people would think, well, for Namath it was historic. You know, that super bowl was a big deal and everything that happened to it. Well, you could argue that what Eli Manning did in knocking off the last undefeated team, that's pretty damn historic too. And the way it was done. So it is well worth the argument, I think. 800-919-3776 will in North Carolina disagrees.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Will.

[Caller Will]

Hey, what's up, guys? I, as I was dialing and waiting for it to come on, I, I was listening to all the other people who are up for the hall of Fame this year. Initially I said, no, he's not a first ballot hall of Famer, but he definitely is a Hall of Famer. But then when you guys started running off the list of who's up, I'm like, yeah, he's making, he's, he's definitely gonna make it. One of the things, guys that really, and I'm a Giants fan, one of the things that really kind of seals it for me with him is the fact that he did win two Super Bowls. The fact that he did do so well on the road and clutch is very important. I mean, clutch time and how you play in clutch time. I mean, anybody who plays sports will tell you that's more important than a lot of other. You definitely had them. The other thing is, as I was thinking here, waiting for you guys to answer the phone, I mean, the Buffalo bills of the 90s went to the super bowl and to the playoffs. How many times Jim Kelly won the Super Bowl.

[Don LaGreca]

That's right.

[Caller Will]

You know, and Jim Kelly, I think was the first ballot hall of Fame.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And another thing that, because I used to argue with Andrew Gunling because Andrew Gundling was not a big Eli. He loved the person because Eli always called on Tom and he was a weekly with us. So Andrew Liked that. But being an Eagle fan he always kind of fought me on the first battle hall of Famer stuff. And you look at the records at the end, you know, 2016 the Giants or 2017 to go 3 and 12 and then they go 5 and 11 like awful records 6 and 10 in 2015. Doesn't that age difference seeing where the Giants ended up going.

[Alan Hahn]

Good point.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like how dysfunctional franchise was like maybe Eli was a part of that you know after Coughlin left and they just couldn't get it right after that. And maybe if Eli had, if Coughlin had stayed, maybe if they had got made some better decisions for Eli. They were trying to win for Eli but it wasn't necessarily the right, you know, the solder didn't turn out to be the right pick. I mean Saquon I think they might have done a better job than getting a running back at that point. So as much as they were trying to help him down the road, obviously none of it worked. So just looking how all the quarterbacks and how the Giants have been since then Allen doesn't that make the last three, four years of Eli's career hit a little differently?

[Alan Hahn]

It is funny. You're right. It does show that ever since he left really things the wheels really came off and they were nowhere near as competitive as they were when he was playing. Game time. This is definitely a conversation that we should continue into tomorrow for sure. We don't get to you today. We will get to this tomorrow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're going to announce it during the honors show tomorrow.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So but we'll see the NBA we the reason we wanted to bring it up today was because we don't know what's going to happen 3 which was.

[Alan Hahn]

When our show starts. Which who knows if Kevin Durant's traded if the Knicks do something you know it's always you never know. So this was a topic that we know we definitely want to get to with you but we know it's a big topic here in New York. Game time is brought to you by Tullah Mordue Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time, it's Tully time. Coming up in just a few minutes. The Rangers and the Bruins tonight. And of course our very own Don LaGreca has the pregame coverage right here on 880 ESPN that's following us right here at the bottom of the hour at 6:30. We also have the Nets and the Wizards tonight. 7:30. Okay guys, game time. Tullamore Dew. The original triple distilled, triple blended triple cast matured Irish Whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew honey during tonight's action. Glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. So Rangers Bruins was last week. They only played each other right on Saturday and that did not go well for the Rangers. It was J.T. miller's debut. He did get two goals. But still for the Rangers, Miller has been so far an immediate impact player. It has changed the way I think they look offensively. And now here's a chance to sort of get a little revenge and also keep trying to get points in your.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Pocket and take a look at the teams that are. You know, Detroit just won seven in a row, but they've been kind of streaky. Columbus is going through injuries. Barzell out maybe for the rest of the regular season. For the Islanders, that was a nice win for them last night.

[Alan Hahn]

They won, what is it, eight of nine.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Eight of nine. But they still have a lot more work to do, so. And then Boston, listen, they're being carried by Posternach, but they've also played more games than everybody else. Rangers win this game tonight. They'll be four back of Boston with three games in hand.

[Alan Hahn]

That's big.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Now Boston's on the outside looking in, but starting to pass some teams. So let's see how much better this power play is going to be. But win tonight, then you got winnable games against Pittsburgh and Columbus to close things out before the the Four nations and they'll take the couple of weeks off. So if the Rangers can go into that break, win four in a row now you're going to feel pretty good about this team, rest some guys up and then come back for that 27 game run after the Four nations to see if they can't get into the playoffs.

[Alan Hahn]

When is Four nations over? Are we talking about last week of February?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, the Rangers, I believe their first game back is the 28th. Okay, I will look it up there. I think, I think it was. I think it's like 18 days off.

[Alan Hahn]

Wow.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I could be wrong about that.

[Alan Hahn]

So you can get healthy. Can they, can the other guys practice? Can they do anything as a. In team facilities or is that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't think it's. I don't think it's like that kind of a break. Yeah. The Rangers. The Rangers last game will be the eighth. Their next game will be the 22nd. Okay, so how many days is the.

[Alan Hahn]

Four nations runs through the 20th. Yes. And then I guess they give you a little time before you come back. Enough to get probably like a minicamp kind of deal, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, it's not too bad. The games are only being played in Montreal and Boston, so Rangers standpoint, they've got five guys going, but they'll be able to. To get back quickly. So yeah, there. There it is. It's right there. Right. You know, it's right there for them to kind of get done. Today's big because now as great as J.T. miller's played, you know, if you're 1 and 2 in the three games, it's like you kind of. You're spinning your wheels a little bit. So Boston has been great on the road, although they are five and oh, in a second of back to backs. Boston played last night, so maybe the Rangers can take advantage of that. But looking at the second of back to backs, Boston's been very good. But I like the Rangers tonight and I like them over the weekend, too. And get hot, get getting into playoffs, get the Garden Magic going again. Because that's the thing about the NHL. You don't care where you are. You just want to get in.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And when you look at the teams that are the top, you might see Toronto and Washington win the divisions, which means the wild card teams. That's who you're going to play. I'm sorry, Washington right now looks like the best team in the NHL, but are you telling me they can't be beat in the first round?

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Toronto never gets out of the first round.

[Alan Hahn]

There's no Florida this time around. Right. Even Florida is not really Florida, but.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Florida still could be Florida.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I keep stealing it from Peter because it's one of the great lines he's ever said.

[Alan Hahn]

Really?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Florida might be playing with their food a bit because.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh yeah, the playing with their food line is a good, good way to describe Florida's Boston. What do you say? Batting the. Batting the bunny.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Batting the bunny. Bat and the bunny. Because Boston's just remember, because I'm getting old, as we heard.

[Alan Hahn]

Not enough about that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They lost to the warriors in the final and then won the championship the next year. Was there a year between.

[Alan Hahn]

Who's the Celtics. A year between. Remember after the Finals, then they had that horrific. You know, they went down 03 to the heat.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right, right. That's right.

[Don LaGreca]

But final two of the three, Florida.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Went to the final and lost to Vegas. And then when the cup. So there's a. They played a lot of games, so they're probably not going to kill themselves to go, you know, to win a game against Washington in February. Washington wanted to prove something last night when they beat Florida. I don't know if Florida was really like that, engaged. And, you know, but still, who knows? It's hard to win three years in a row.

[Alan Hahn]

Here's the good news.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Chiefs are going to be on.

[Alan Hahn]

The other side of the four nations and on the other side of the NB All Star break. It starts to get real and it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Starts to get more exciting to get real.

[Alan Hahn]

And then, of course, and baseball on the other side of things as well. Bregman might end up signing with the Tigers Le Tigres. So keep an eye on that. Trade deadlines tomorrow. It'll be right after our show is when the deadline is. So we'll have all the news for you. So you keep it right here. You got Don coming up momentarily. And if you miss Chris DiStefano, you got to get the podcast. It is hilarious. We'll see you all tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know the sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.