Hour 4: Knicks Struggles

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 4: Knicks Struggles
Release Date: January 15, 2025

In this engaging episode of the Don, Hahn & Rosenberg podcast, hosts Don Hahn, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg delve deep into the current challenges facing the New York Knicks, analyze the New York Rangers' performance, and explore various listener questions ranging from NFL quarterback dilemmas to MVP award debates. The conversation is enriched with insightful analysis, passionate opinions, and interactive segments with listeners, making it a must-listen for sports enthusiasts.

---

1. New York Knicks' Struggles

Overview:
The primary focus of this episode centers on the New York Knicks' recent performance issues. Hosts dissect the team's defensive lapses, inconsistent offensive output, and the impact of heavy minutes on key players.

Key Discussions:

• Recent Losses and Defensive Issues:
  Don Hahn expresses concern over the Knicks' recent home loss to Orlando, highlighting defensive shortcomings. He states, “The loss last week at home to Orlando was a bit disturbing... the Knicks just seemed to be a little dysfunctional at this point” ([00:28]).

• Impact of Bench Depth and Player Minutes:
  Dan Rosenberg emphasizes the lack of bench depth, noting that "the Knicks have no bench, period" ([07:54]). This heavy reliance on starters leads to fatigue, as all five starters rank in the top 10 for minutes played in the NBA.

• Josh Hart’s Comments on Team Energy:
  The conversation touches upon Josh Hart's remarks post-game, where he underscores the need for the team to "bring energy to execute" and "have a sense of urgency" ([04:20]). Don Hahn adds, “He said he’s the energy guy, yo” ([04:30]).

• Defensive Disconnect:
  Stefan Bondi discusses potential friction between Josh Hart and OG Anunoby, pointing out defensive communication issues: “pick and rolls and switching going on and there's this lack of communication” ([05:17]).

• Coaching Strategy and Rotation Problems:
  During listener segments, criticism is leveled at Knicks coach Thibodeau for not effectively rotating players to manage fatigue. Don Hahn remarks, “If everybody's playing north of 35, 40 minutes, he doesn't want to lose any games” ([26:37]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Rosenberg: “For a team that wants to finish in the top four so they can avoid Boston in the second, that's not a game you want to lose” ([01:35]).
• Josh Hart: “Have a sense of urgency, attention to detail, gotta communicate better” ([04:25]).

---

2. New York Rangers' Performance and Playoff Prospects

Overview:
The hosts shift their focus to the New York Rangers, analyzing their current form and potential to secure a playoff spot amidst a competitive Eastern Conference.

Key Discussions:

• Rangers’ Winning Streak and Playoff Hopes:
  Don Hahn notes the Rangers are “starting to turn it around just a bit” with a record of 41-31, highlighting their recent improvement ([00:28]).

• Eastern Conference Challenges:
  Dan Rosenberg discusses the rising competition in the Eastern Conference, mentioning teams like Indiana and Detroit gaining momentum, which heightens the Knicks' playoff challenges ([03:22]).

• Playoff Race Dynamics:
  The conversation elaborates on the tight race for the final playoff spots, with Columbus holding the last spot and other teams like Ottawa and Montreal in close contention. Don Hahn underscores, “The Rangers are better than Philadelphia, they're better than Pittsburgh” ([14:17]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Rosenberg: “The rest of the Eastern Conference is getting a little bit deeper in terms of the teams that you're going to have to butt heads with” ([02:30]).

---

3. Listener Calls and Interactive Discussions

a. Cross-Over Broadcasting Concept

• Listener Idea:
  John from Atlanta proposes an entertaining idea for a crossover broadcast where Walt Clyde Frazier could commentate on Rangers games, blending the excitement of both the Knicks and Rangers into a unique viewing experience ([11:21]).

• Hosts' Reaction:
  Don Hahn finds the idea intriguing, saying, “I would love to see it” ([12:22]).

b. NFL Quarterback and Team Management

• Sam Darnold and Giants’ Quarterback Dilemma:
  Roddy from the south discusses the Giants' quarterback situation, questioning the value of giving Sam Darnold a massive contract despite inconsistent performance. He suggests that starting fresh with a new regime might be more beneficial ([28:52]).

• Josh Hart’s Perspective:
  Josh Hart criticizes the Giants' decision to offer a substantial deal to Darnold, arguing it’s not justifiable given his performance. He states, “I really don’t see a point in giving him this massive deal” ([29:04]).

c. MVP Award Debates

• Listener's Suggestion:
  Tony from Tampa argues that the NFL should redefine MVP awards to "Most Outstanding Player" to better reflect individual performances, similar to other sports ([33:06]).

• Hosts' Insights:
  Don Hahn concurs, proposing two separate awards: “Most Valuable Player” and “Most Outstanding Player” to allow broader recognition ([34:06]).

  Dan Rosenberg adds, “It does seem weird” to exclude postseason performances from MVP considerations, citing examples like Lamar Jackson’s impressive season ([34:44]).

Notable Quotes:

• Tony: “MVP. Valuable, right?... I think the MVP needs to be changed to Most Outstanding Player” ([33:03]).
• Don Hahn: “I would have no problem if you had two awards. Most Outstanding Player...” ([34:40]).
• Dan Rosenberg: “Like, we can have all the excuses in the world” ([04:23]).

---

4. Additional Player and Team Analyses

a. Sam Darnold and Jets' Performance:

• Listener Rob's Input:
  Rob praises Sam Darnold’s resilience despite the Jets' tough schedule, acknowledging the limited quality of their wins but recognizing the effort involved ([08:30]).

• Hosts’ Take:
  Don Hahn agrees, noting that the Jets' victories against playoff-bound teams like the Packers and Houston add value to Darnold’s performance ([10:07]).

b. Quarterback Development and Team Strategy:

• Listener Josh Hart’s Observations:
  Josh questions the Giants' strategy in drafting and developing quarterbacks, comparing potential scenarios if the Bears had drafted Patrick Mahomes or the Browns had Lamar Jackson as a wide receiver ([22:39]).

• Hosts' Opinions:
  Don Hahn emphasizes the Giants should "explore it all" and possibly avoid investing heavily in uncertain quarterback prospects ([29:35]).

---

5. Concluding Thoughts and Final Listener Interactions

The episode concludes with further discussions on team management, draft strategies, and maintaining competitive edge in both basketball and football. The hosts reiterate the importance of strategic decision-making and player development to ensure long-term success for the Knicks and Giants.

Final Listener Calls:

• Artie from Brooklyn:
  Artie emphasizes the need for cohesive teamwork between the GM and coach to secure promising draft picks, expressing optimism about potential cornerbacks and defensive linemen ([42:53]).

• Tony from Tampa:
  Tony reiterates his stance on MVP award redefinition, critiquing the current system’s limitations ([33:06]).

---

Conclusion:
This episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg offers a comprehensive analysis of the New York Knicks' current struggles, the Rangers' playoff aspirations, and broader discussions on NFL team management and award recognition. Through detailed breakdowns and interactive listener segments, the hosts provide valuable insights and foster engaging conversations that cater to a wide range of sports interests.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Don Hahn: “The Knicks just seemed to be a little dysfunctional at this point” ([00:28]).
• Dan Rosenberg: “The Knicks have no bench, period” ([07:54]).
• Josh Hart: “Have a sense of urgency, attention to detail” ([04:25]).
• Tony: “The MVP needs to be changed to Most Outstanding Player” ([33:03]).
• Dan Rosenberg: “It does seem weird” ([34:44]).

---

Stay Connected:
For more in-depth sports analysis and lively discussions, subscribe to the Don, Hahn & Rosenberg podcast on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

Don't you love it when things are both easier and more affordable? Like when the rain washes your car for you? Or like when you save up to 10% by bundling your renters and auto insurance with USAA. Bundle with USAA and start saving. Get a quote today.

[Dan Rosenberg]

This is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 880 ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Don Hahn]

Don and Dan with you until 7. Ty Butler is going to be on until 8:30 and then I'll jump on for the Rangers pregame show. Rangers and Avalanche. Rangers 41 and 1 in their last five so they're starting to turn it around just a bit. Still work to be done as far as to get into the playoffs, but still they're playing better and now have a chance to officially be over NHL 500. If they can win tonight against the Colorado team, that is good but not great yet. So maybe they're catching them at the right time. They are 72 and 1 and their last 10, but they're getting, coming off getting shut out by the Winnipeg jets on Saturday. Three to nothing. But the Knicks, Knicks, Dan just seemed to be a little dysfunctional at this point. I thought they've had a couple of bad losses. I thought the loss last week at home to Orlando was a bit disturbing, especially coming off the way they played in Chicago and then the loss yesterday. And I know that their bench is an issue and certainly the Pistons are a little bit deeper, but that's a tough, that's a, that's a difficult loss to take and I don't think they're in any kind of trouble. Danfor but for a team that wants to finish in the top four so they can avoid Boston in the second, that's not a game you want to lose.

[Dan Rosenberg]

No. And there's been a look, the two losses to Oklahoma City, you chalk those away as Oklahoma City might be the best team in the league, right? I mean when they're, they're not even healthy at Oklahoma City because of no Chet Holmgren. But you lose two to the Thunder in a week, you say okay, but you know the one to Chicago, which was the tail end of a back to back. You played no defense whatsoever. You came home, you started a home stand against Orlando, you made four threes the entire night. You couldn't hit the ocean from the boat essentially. And you lose to an undermanned Orlando team. I don't care if Cat played or not. Okay, you spank the raptors Then you lose to Oklahoma City again. You get right against the Milwaukee team on Sunday afternoon. Great. And then last night, again, the defense was mia, you know, and give the Pistons credit. There's a Pistons team that's now beaten you twice, already lost to Chicago twice, you know what I'm saying? So they have these, like, games this year where, you know, they're losing to opponents, Ward. Nor ordinarily, you just chalk them up to victories. But the scary thing about it with the Knicks is you can look at them as, okay, this is what they got going on. But now you look at the rest of the Eastern Conference. Done. All of a sudden, Indiana's getting their act together again. Remember, Indiana, like, buried themselves earlier in the year, the first couple months. Now Indiana's starting to look like a team. Like, oh, yeah, they were in the conference finals last year. Orlando will eventually get healthy. You know what I'm saying? Like, and that's a team that could pose a problem for you. So maybe that pool is just getting a little bit deeper in terms of the teams that you're going to have to butt heads with to. Oh, by the way, see if you can actually get past the second round, which was the goal this year.

[Don Hahn]

Right. Again, not. No panic. They're still in third place, three games ahead of Orlando for fourth.

[Dan Rosenberg]

So.

[Don Hahn]

But as you said, Indiana's now won six in a row, so it's. It's something to kind of keep an eye on. And in Detroit, they've been good. They. They've won eight of their last 10. So it's not like, well, they're not.

[Dan Rosenberg]

A laughing stock anymore.

[Don Hahn]

They're also, you know, a team that, you know, going into the game is just a game above.500. So that was.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Kate Cunningham is an all Star this year, and this is a guy who was a former number one overall pick. They got some shooters around him finally. And I, you know, think about, like, the Monty Williams disaster last year, like, what that team was, and now give JB Bickerstaff a lot of credit and the front office of what they did, but essentially, Knicks are at the midway point, right. It's 41 games, if I'm not mistaken, 26 and 15. Yeah, they're two ahead of last year's pace. So if you looked at the first 41, you satisfied where this team is.

[Don Hahn]

At, I think you should be. But, you know, there's still some. You're held to a different standard now, right? The. You're not. Hey, that. The little engine that could look at those Knicks you're now a team that you want to be in the conversation to go out there and compete for a championship. And these are the games that bother you. Now, if you think we're overreacting, well, what about Josh Hart? He agrees with us. And he was asked after the game what went wrong in the loss.

[Josh Hart]

I mean, we gotta find a way to bring energy to execute.

[Dan Rosenberg]

We can have all the excuses in the world.

[Don Hahn]

We gotta go out there and play.

[Josh Hart]

Have a sense of urgency, attention to.

[Don Hahn]

Detail, gotta communicate better.

[Dan Rosenberg]

These are the things that we gotta start figuring out.

[Don Hahn]

He said lost.

[Dan Rosenberg]

He's the energy guy, yo.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And you don't like hearing that lack of energy because now that feeds the fire of, well, they're playing too many minutes and they're too tired. Like, these are the kind of conversations that get fueled by hearing that they lacked energy.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, he's also said some things during this stretch, you know, where the. In the five out of seven after a couple of games in particular, he's kind of just like snuck in. You know, we got to put our egos aside. Guys got to put their egos. So is that just cliche or is that. Is there like a meaning behind that? Maybe that he's trying to get something out there?

[Don Hahn]

Well, there seems to be something going on between him and OG So Stefan Bondi was on with Michael K earlier today. Is there a disconnect between Hart and Anunobi?

[Stefan Bondi]

So Jazz Hart has come out, not last night, but the two losses prior and brought up some interesting comments about how the team need to let go of their egos. They need to start playing as a team. And it felt like he was directing it at somebody. Now, he didn't say who it was, but, you know, of course everybody's going to speculate. The wing defense was supposed to be a major strength for this team. When you bring in Mikael Bridges, when you bring in OG Anunoby, and Josh Hart is a good defender as well. It has not been. They've looked disconnected on a lot of games and on a lot of levels. So when you have these, you know, pick and rolls and switching going on and there's this lack of communication that's clearly happening, there's going to be frustration. And I don't want to get into Josh Hart's head and say he was talking about OGN and OBD's last couple games or he was talking about Mikel, but there's clearly is a disconnect and the defense has been the major problem. I mean, let's face it, it's been the biggest problem with this team and it was supposed to be because of those wing stops they've been called. It's supposed to be a strength. So I think that everything that is going on with those guys, bears watching, bears monitoring, because it's not going like it's kind of how we anticipated.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And you know, another thing too, I mean, I want to pile on, but am I wrong to expect more from Bridges?

[Dan Rosenberg]

No, absolutely not. Because remember when they got him over the summer, you thought that maybe he was going to be the big acquisition this team made. Right. And bringing all the Villanova guys, you know, getting them all together on this team and he and, and, and OG Anunoby were supposed to be, you know, the two of the best wing defenders in basketball. Bridges was a guy who was going to be able to shots from the outside and his shot has been all over the place this year. His offensive contributions have been so up and down all year. That's what's maddening about it. But you know something that to me, Bears watching and I've been hitting on this theme ever since like training camp is, is the depth, right. And, and this team really does not have a bench, period. And now you wonder, you know, you see them go through this lull where they've lost to some teams that, you know, they maybe are better than and they should be. And you're hearing about the defense not being there. And you know, defense more than anything, Don, it's effort, it's moving your feet and what contributes may effort not being there, maybe some tired legs, some heavy legs. You know, all five starters on this team are in the top 10 in minutes played in the NBA and they have numbers one, two and three. Mikhail Bridges is first in the NBA in minutes played. Josh Hart is number two. OG Anunoby is number three. Those are your three best defenders in your starting lineup. And you could, you know, they could sit there and say that they're fit as a fiddle and everything, but 41 games into the season, I'm not a big load management guy. You know, you get paid to play. But it is something that at least leaves me a little concerned given the fact they don't have a lot of options on that bench to spell these guys for long stretches.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, it's. Is it overblown? Maybe. But is it also something they need to keep an eye on now at the deadline? They'll, they'll be able to find some buys and some bodies to be able to help that. But maybe people are exaggerating it a little, but I still think it is an issue and something to kind of Pay attention to. 1-800-919-3776 Sam Darnold has also dominated the conversations. The Vikings season ended last night. Will the jets and Giants kick the tires if he become and leaves Minnesota? Let's go to Jay. He's down in Atlanta. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Jay?

[Jay]

Hey, what's up, fellas? Thanks for taking a call. First of all. So Sam Darnold, I'm a Jets fan and for me, I feel great for the kid, you know, coming out of what we did to him. To have a 14 game winning streak is amazing. Well, 14 game record, the NFL this year. But if you look at those wins, yo, playing devil's advocate, man, if you could, if you ask Santa for a schedule that'll all but guarantee you going to the playoffs, it'll be this one. They have absolutely no quality. No, no quality wins, no big wins, no statement wins. And I think as a gm, that's what I'll look at. You know, I think they beat Green Bay twice. Other than that, everybody else they played with subpar and, you know, you see how Green Bay ended up. They weren't very good either. So that's where I would tread lightly. If I was Sam Donald, I would actually want to stay in Minnesota and, you know, take my chances there because if another GM looks at that and looks at who he beat, you could say it's, you know, it was a little bit of fool's gold. Minnesota. I don't think they were as good as, as their record.

[Don Hahn]

So that's all I hope I'm with you. I'm totally with you. As far as the team being overrated, I don't think they were, you know, 14 and three suggests they're one of the best teams in the NFL. And I never felt that. But I can't beat them up on the schedule. It is what it is, right? I mean, you could say, oh, you only beat the Packers. You beat the packers twice. Well, the packers are a playoff team, right? You wipe the floor with Houston. Houston's a playoff team. Houston's playing in the divisional round of the playoffs. You beat him 34 to 7. Now, do I think the Texans are great? No, but they're still alive in the playoffs. Okay.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Beat San Francisco in week two when we thought San Francisco was a Super bowl team.

[Don Hahn]

And also one of the regular, regular, regular season losses to Detroit in Minnesota, you lost 31, 29. All right? So I can't. I can't. And then the bad teams are. You beat Chicago 30 to 12. You wipe the floor with him, you wipe the floor with Atlanta. All right.

[Dan Rosenberg]

But you know what also says something too. And I think, I mean, you could bring up the schedule. Look, you could only play who's on your schedule. Number one, I think you should throw some bouquets in their direction, saying that they didn't have any, quote, unquote, bad losses either.

[Don Hahn]

Done well, they lost the teams all year. They lost to the Rams in week two, when they were probably. Or week one, excuse me, when I don't think anybody had any expectations. I remember getting ready for the Giant season, thinking, counting Minnesota as one of the games the Giants should win.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Right. We all did.

[Don Hahn]

And, and, and they got crushed, you know, so. But then he started to get better and better and better. So, you know, and they lost to a Ram team on the road in the playoffs. I get it. You know, obviously Detroit is way better than Minnesota is, even though the separation was just one game. Let's go to John in the car. He's got an interesting idea. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, John?

[John]

Hey, Don. Pleasure to talk to you as well, Dan.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Thank you.

[John]

Long time Nixon. Long time Nixon. Rangers fan. And you know, as you know, this is Sam Rosen's last season broadcasting for the Rangers on the Knicks side. You know, Walt Clyde Frazier, who I think is maybe the most entertaining, entertaining broadcaster in New York. If this isn't his last year, it's probably not far down the road. You know, I was watching the Knick game the other night and I was thinking, boy, you know, if Clyde ever had the chance to announce a Ranger game, to do color commentary for a Ranger game, like, how would he do the Ranger game? And I started thinking about it and I was like, this would be hilarious. You know, he would have like, you know, Artemi Panari and slicing and Dyson up the defense and Matt Rempe getting overzealous with an elbow and, you know, whatever. And I thought, you know, it'd an interesting idea. You know, I don't think MSG would ever do it, but to have like a crossover game with like Sam Rose and, and, and Wall, Clyde Frazier doing, you know, both the Knicks game and a Ranger game, and it just. That would be like, hilarious. I would be so entertained.

[Don Hahn]

You know what? It's. It's such. It's not a bad idea, John. Now I don't know if MSG would have the appetite to do it. Considering like they, they, they treat these games, you know, pretty professional. They're important, you know, people, especially with the Rangers now needing a lot of these games in the second half of the season. But let's say for sake of argument, Dan, you know, the Rangers drop off here and they're playing some meaningless games down the stretch.

[Josh Hart]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

And the Knicks have an off day. You know, I would love to see it. I would love to see, you know, Breen calling a hockey game with Joe. Joe Micheletti. I know Breen is a hockey fan. Listen, I'm sure Breen can do hockey. He was brilliant on football, he's brilliant on basketball. I, I think if given time to prep, he would do it. But, but more so like could you see them do it? I, I think it'd be fun. Yeah, I think like the fans would embrace that.

[Dan Rosenberg]

You'd have to switch Joe over to the, the basketball, just so, you know, keep them working and everything. But yeah, I think that would be pretty cool. Why not?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. So again, I don't know if they would ever do it especially. You don't want to, you don't want to do it if it's like a must win situation. We're not, we're not starting getting the second half of the season. But you know, and I, I really hope, you know, when, however you feel about the Rangers or whatever, I'm. Obviously if you're a fan, you're hoping they make the playoffs. It would really, I think, be a travesty for Sam Rosen's last season to be a non playoff season for the Rangers. I think he should be calling meaningful games all regular season. Of course we know that MSG would have most of the first round of the playoffs, so you'd want to see him do that. And then he would get a chance to fill in for Kenny. If they were to go beyond, he would deserve a run. It would really, I think, stink. If Sam Rosen's last Ranger game is, you know, game 82, they've already been eliminated. The game's meaningless. That is not the way Sam Rosen should go out. So hopefully they make a run here and get into the playoffs and at least make Sam's last games meaningful.

[Dan Rosenberg]

No. When? Man, I remember when the announcement came out over the summer. I had him on in the, in the morning and shoot. I mean nobody was thinking that this team wouldn't even at least make the playoffs. We were talking about a team that was a cup contender.

[Don Hahn]

Now I think they'll make the playoffs. Dan, for no other reason is I'm not sure any of the teams they're chasing after are clearly better than them. I felt like the Eastern Conference had seven playoff teams and whoever the eighth playoff team would just be there because you'd need to take eight. But now I'm starting to wonder with Detroit winning seven, they made the coaching change to McClellan. Like, I'm wondering if Detroit now might become a legitimate playoff team. But you look at the teams that are between the Rangers and that final playoff spot, which right now is Columbus's, which I think is an amazing story, you know, with the passing of Johnny Goudreau and having no expectations for Columbus to have that last playoff spot. But right now, Columbus has the last playoff spot. Then there's Ottawa, Detroit, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and then the Rangers. So you're like, oh, my God, look at all the teams they have to climb over. But they're only four points back at Columbus. The Rangers are better than Philadelphia, they're better than Pittsburgh, they're better than Montreal. I think they're. They're better than Ottawa and Columbus. Now Detroit. I'm not sure where this is going to go with Detroit, but Boston is. They've. They're only got three wins in their last 10. So I think if the Rangers can play the way they've been playing over the last few games, I think they. I think they're still in a good position to make the playoffs. They got 40 games left. I think they're better than the teams they're chasing after. I think Drury will make a move at the deadline to try to get back. I think they'll make the playoffs.

[Dan Rosenberg]

How many more games against Detroit do they have? The Rangers?

[Don Hahn]

No, they're done with Detroit. They played them all three times early in the season.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Oh, so they're done with them.

[Don Hahn]

They've been done with Detroit like in like first week of November. It's crazy. They played them three times in like the first 12 games. It was crazy. I got to call one of the games in Detroit.

[Dan Rosenberg]

It's like the Knicks in Orlando. Knicks played them four times already and they're done.

[Don Hahn]

Weird, right? It's, it's, it's kind of crazy, but yeah, it's weird with the schedule, right? Like, Rangers, devils, nice ravelers. 40 games left in the seat. They play one more time.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, it is kind of. Kind of stupid. Let's go to Roddy in. In the south side. You're on espn. New York. What's up?

[Josh Hart]

Good, Donnie, how's it going? Dan, what's good?

[Dan Rosenberg]

What's up brother?

[Josh Hart]

You know, Happy, happy. Born to Rosenberg, good guy. So I got a few quick points right? You made a statement earlier about how Dan Marino, how he be, how he will be looked at. Right now that's basically Joey B. That's basically Joe Burrow right now. Outstanding. One super bowl, can't get back. But if I have a question, how would you guys feel if the Giants drafted Sanders? Do you feel like his father will like really help him, coach him? Because his father knows defense, you know, so you'll be able to like teach him how to read, you know, the defense and stuff like that. It's kind of like how Eli works with Peyton, you know, kind of like he's not gonna lie to him, he loves him, you know, but he's not.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Gonna be breaking film down with him during the week if he's still coaching Colorado. He's got his own job to do.

[Josh Hart]

I mean, I'll say. Just a thought. I'd rather have Travis anyway. I'd rather have Travis go get field and pay for T. Higgins.

[Dan Rosenberg]

You know what the problem is? We were saying it all year, like when the Giants were kind of like inching towards getting the number one overall pick done. This is not the year to have the 1, 2 or 3 pick because it's not a great class of quarterbacks. Next year's class is better. The year after that is supposed to be better. But this is just one of those odd off years where if you are picking that high, I would be taking a lot of phone calls. Even if I needed a quarterback.

[Don Hahn]

I, I, I, I don't know how they feel about Ward or Sanders, so it's hard to say. But if they're, you don't take a quarterback for the sake of taking a quarterback. So if you're not in on the quarterbacks with all the things that they need, I would trade down.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah, you could. I mean, I'm not saying not to take one, let's say in the mid rounds or something like that. It's always positive bringing one in, but not to, not to invest that type of capital because you know, you, you swing and miss on a first round quarterback. In this day and age that's setting.

[Don Hahn]

You back years, especially this organization. Can they really afford to be set back that many years? It would just be, it would be crippling to the organization. That's why Dan, for no other reason with, with the three teams in their division clearly better than they are, with a chance to start fresh with a high draft pick, wouldn't it have been better to just do it with a new regime because then you'd have to preach patience to the fan base because, hey, we're starting over. New gm, new head coach, we got the third overall pick. You know, we're probably not going to be able to take a quarterback there. So we're going to be patient. We're going to wait, we're going to. We're going to do all the right things. We're going to build up this roster. There won't be any pressure to win. Now you keep. You heard John Maris say, well, we, we better see results or we're sitting here next year, same thing. I'm going to be ticked. Well, now there's going to be a pressure to win games, to save their job, but I don't think they. There's games to be won. They're not particularly talented, they're not going to have a quarterback. They've got a really difficult schedule, they're in a tough division. And now you're going to sit there and win five games and what, John Mara is going to be pissed off and go, guys, you should have done better. Why?

[Dan Rosenberg]

And basically, like in his comments at the end of the season, kind of like putting both guys on notice saying, this isn't going to. This isn't like a three or four or, you know, stay of execution or whatever. New. Okay, okay, great. So you're back to the same situation next year.

[Don Hahn]

And that's why it makes zero sense with that the way I just. The scenario I played out to draft a quarterback, you can't, and they must know that. So John Mara tried to buy another year, but really, what are you buying?

[Dan Rosenberg]

You know, can I say this, too? Like, a lot of people you know, of late have kind of brought up the fact that, okay, the Giants didn't get those first three quarterbacks last year, even though they tried. But Bo Nix was still on the board. He could have had him. I don't know if Bo Nix is having the season he had. If he's on this team this year, probably not. I would bet against it.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's why I'm frustrated, because they're not making any quarterbacks better. Like, all right, Daniel Jones wasn't great. And Daniel Jones obviously had the injury, the injuries, the knee, the neck, but he didn't make Daniel Jones better. And, and Drew Lock, you could say, well, who's Drew Lock? Well, Drew Lock was brought here as insurance just in case Daniel Jones wasn't ready. Did they do anything with Drew Lock? You know, you can say so. So the point is, is that we make it seem like, well, they didn't have quarterbacks. Well, the quarterbacks that they have, they didn't really do anything with. So I don't know if Pennix or would have done anything. I don't know if Bo Nix would have done anything here. My guess would probably be no. So. But I would have started fresh. They didn't. We'll see what ends up happening at the end of the day. This episode is brought to you by Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part of getting sick is the getting better part. Waiting on hold for an appointment, sitting in crowd rooms, standing in line at the pharmacy. That's painful. Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy remove those painful parts of getting better with things like 247 virtual visits and prescriptions delivered to your door thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said. Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Don and Dan hanging out with 7:00, Ty Butler till 8:30. And then we've got Rangers, Hockey Rangers and the Avalanche Rangers trying to see if they can win three in a row for the first time in a couple of months. Let's get Back to the calls. 1-800-919-3776. Rob in the car. You're on ESPN New York. What's up Rob?

[Josh Hart]

Hey, what's going on fellas? How you doing?

[Don Hahn]

It's all going on.

[Josh Hart]

Cool, cool. So I did have a point about the Knicks, but I just wanted to ask a question about the quarterback situation because Dan made a really good point. Bo Nix will not have been what he is for the Giants. And I feel like a lot of organizations need to take a step back and evaluate where they're at and see if they can have that guy. Because I think it was was it was the Bears that had the position to Patrick Mahomes. But then Kansas City jumped up. I don't remember correctly, but if Mahomes had went to the Bears, would they be sitting on two straight Super Bowls? I mean, come on. If.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, Rob, bring it closer to home. He was on the board for the jets in 2017 and they took Jamal Adams at sixth instead. Is Patrick Mahomes a three time Super bowl winner if he was drafted by the Jets?

[Josh Hart]

Exactly. You could go down the list. Is Lamar Jackson a wide receiver or a quarterback if he plays for the Browns? I mean Come on. Some of these organizations, they. They really need to take a step back. I also agree with you, Don, when you said the Giants need to really just explode it all, you know, Shane and Babel have been okay, but I don't know if they should keep going on with. Okay, I agree with you, Don. Just get somebody else in there. But as far as the Knicks go in Thibodeau, I'll try to be quick. I don't. I don't understand how he's such a good coach, but he can't find a way to rotate guys into the rotation. What I mean by that is we're not expecting him to just throw all the bench guys in at once and just get demolished. I don't see why. Is it that the guys are so terribly bad that if you put someone in with the starters, like say, Kolik, for example, if you put Kolik in with the rest of the starters, does that mean the game is going to get blown up and we're going to be down by 15? I don't. I feel like he could do better just rotating guys in with the starters and also give the starters a blow so they get a closer look at the game. I think sitting down will help them to see what's going on on the floor. I think being out there just for so many minutes at a time, they don't get a chance to see what's actually going on. I mean, Mikhail plays 40 plus minutes a game.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Yeah, well, Mikhail never misses the game either. He hasn't missed a game since high school, you know what I'm saying? So, like, that's, that's just him. He's kind of like an iron man, Rob, but thanks for the call, Don. I think, like, we know that Tibbs is reluctant when it comes to rookies, you know what I mean? He's going to keep him at arm's length. He's not going to put too much trust. And I think they're bringing a guy like Kolik along slowly. That's why they got him playing those games in the G League, so we could get the minutes there, because he's not seeing the floor as much here with this team. It'll be real curious to see, A, when Mitchell Robinson is healthy and B, what they do, if anything, before the trade deadline for the stretch run. Because I don't know if this approach is going to guarantee them making it all the way to late May, June. You know what I'm saying?

[Don Hahn]

No, you're right. And here's the other thing, too. We Were talking about developing quarterbacks. Well, part of a coach's job is to develop players on the bench and make them better players, make them serviceable players. That's part of what your job is as a coach and assistant coaches. The thing is, and I think it's admirable, and I think it's the best asset the Knicks have is that they treat every game as it's the most important game of the season. They don't want to throw away games. They don't believe in load management. But the teams that believe in load management mean they have to have a bench. Somebody's got to play for the guys that are in their suits, you know, watching from the press box. But if everybody's playing north of 35, 40 minutes, he doesn't want to lose any games. He wants to win every game humanly possible. Other teams in the NBA are like, yeah, I want to win every game, but you know what? I'm going to rest some guys and if it means we blow a 10, 10 point lead in the fourth quarter, okay, so be it. But sometimes you got to lose the battle to win the war. Knicks aren't willing to do that because the Knicks see value in home court. The Knicks see value in winning every game. That's why they finished as high as they did last year. But there are other teams. The Boston Celtics don't believe in load management, but if they decided to scale down the minutes in the fourth quarter and blew a game, Dan, I, I think they'd be like, all right, you know what, I didn't want to lose it, but I see value in giving my guys rest. Knicks don't believe that. And I think that's cool. But it does come at a price.

[Dan Rosenberg]

And you know what, these are conversations that the fans usually have, like in the playoffs or once we, you know, like. And when, Remember when they lost in the playoffs and when they were injured going into the playoffs, guys were banged up. Not 100%. The refrain was, Tibbs runs his guys into the ground during the regular season because they want to win every single game, Right? And so like, that's usually something that's reserved for later in the year, not now at the midway point. And I'm just kind of saying like, like, how much worse is this gonna get when it comes to these guys logging heavy minutes and hopefully being able to stay on the floor.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, and the other thing I didn't like too, you know, Breen was on with K saying, well, the players want to play. All right, well that's nice. All right. But that doesn't mean you have to bend over backwards to give them everything that they want. I think it's great that Brunson wants to play 48 minutes. It's great. But I don't think it's feasible that guys play as much as they want to play. Sometimes the coach has to be like the big boy in the room and say, okay, guys, I'm sorry.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don Hahn]

And, you know, trust that you. Your bench. And if your bench doesn't come through and you lose a game, hey, you're. You're a three seed and you will. And you're losing games anyway. I mean, you still lost the game yesterday, you know, so it's not like you're winning every game anyway. So you're not trying to break the, you know, the Golden State warriors record for wins or anything. I. I love the fact that they keep every game and. And hold it up and put it on a pedestal, that it's too point. Too important to throw away. But, you know, I don't want the season to go down to tubes because of it.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Do you look at this team like, like, do you think it's a real. How about this? Do you think it's fair that it's a conference finals or bust expectations for this team? Like, you need to be able to finally get past the second round. You make the big moves.

[Don Hahn]

You know, you like to see it, but when you see the way Boston and Cleveland's playing, you know, you're gonna have to beat one of those two teams to get there and to get to the. I don't know. I. I need to see more. But right now, does it feel like that's. That's on the table?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, I mean, we. Offensively, they could do it with anybody.

[Don Hahn]

They're elite.

[Dan Rosenberg]

But. But the thing that none of us had going into the season is a reality was this season that Cleveland is having. Because now what this does is if Cleveland is going to continue to play at this, like, astronomical rate and possibly, like, finish first. Well, what was the thing over the last couple of years? It was always, you want to delay seeing Boston as long as. And then the way things were shaken up is if you can avoid until the conference finals, that's great. Well, right now, if you're the three in, Boston's the two, because Cleveland is out in front of everybody, you might have to play Boston in the second round.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, that's. And that's what you want to try to avoid, because I'd still. I'd rather play Cleveland than Boston, because even though Cleveland might end up with a better record, still you've had their number. I'll, I'll believe it when I see it. We saw the same thing with OKC in Minnesota last year out west, and you know, the playoffs are completely, completely different. Animal, let's go to Chauncey and Westwood. You're on espn. New York.

[Josh Hart]

What's up, guys? Just want to talk about the Sam Donald thing. I really don't see a point in giving him this massive deal. When you look at, I mean, you look at last year, obviously Shanahan thought.

[Don Hahn]

Brock Purdy was better than Darnold.

[Josh Hart]

Darnold didn't even play.

[Don Hahn]

And now based off the beginning of.

[Josh Hart]

This season and really nothing else, he's going to get this big contract. I don't think the Giants or Jets would get him.

[Stefan Bondi]

If you're, if you're saying for a.

[Josh Hart]

Bridge quarterback, sure, that's fine, but you don't pay 40 million to a bridge.

[Don Hahn]

Quarterback when you're trying to build what, what's $40 million? You're the giants and you're actively rebuilding. You don't really want to spend that much, especially when you just got out.

[Josh Hart]

Of a big contract.

[Don Hahn]

But if you believe in a member. This was the third overall pick in the draft. All right, now you say San Francisco. He didn't play him, but he also got hurt in San Francisco. You know, Brock Purdy had a resume, played in a Super bowl, so it was kind of difficult to upend him. And he was playing well last year, good enough for them to be able to, you know, to do what they did last year. So I, I think there's a lot there, Chauncey, and thank you for the phone call. More than just one season. You know, like I said, he had the fourth best quarterback rating his last four years of his rookie year. Then things got derailed by the jets because the jets just seemed to chew up quarterbacks, spit him out. We all thought, all right, he'll do better in Carolina with Rule. Well, you know, Rule didn't turn out to be, be the coach that we thought San Francisco. He was landlocked, he got hurt, and now he finally gets an opportunity with a really good offensive mind. And then he goes out there and throws for 4,300 yards and 35 touchdowns. And I'm supposed to just say it's a fluke. And dan, what is 40 million like at the end of when you're talking about, like, bridge? How much you going to pay a quarterback? How much is BAKER Mayfield making $40.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Million is like the midway point. As far as 40 million, it's not a ton.

[Don Hahn]

You say it's not. I'm sorry, that's not big time money.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, what did I say the franchise tag is this year was? 38 million and change? The franchise tag, it's an average value of what, the top five or top ten at the position or something.

[Don Hahn]

You know, we were all aghast that the Giants gave Daniel Jones $40 million. That was a few years ago. But you know, Daniel Jones was able to make $40 million off a playoff win, winning nine games. But they also made sure that they had an out after two years. I mean you could do that. You could, you could sign Darnold to a four year contract same as Daniel Jones with an out after two years. If it turns out that it was a fluke, you can get out of it. But what do you expect to pay any quarterback?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, forget about just one year. And look, I'm not saying the Giants or the jets are going to do this, but like all it takes is one team. I mean think about the stupidity that Cleveland had with desean Watson and they're still paying for that one. And that just continues to look worse and worse by the day. But once upon a time, done. Matt Flynn got paid off of one game. Yeah, game he started for Aaron Rodgers on the last week of the season. Wasn't it Sunday Night Football or something? Yeah, and he played great for the packers and like, oh that, that's a future starting quarterback in the making. And the Seahawks gave him all that money and he didn't even open the season as a starter because Russell Wilson beat him out in camp.

[Don Hahn]

I remember that. That's great. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, because he was what, the third round pick and the big free agent deal and he took the job right away from him. But 40 million, it sounds like a lot, but you know, like you said, looking at what quarterbacks are going to get paid him. Now listen, if he wins a couple of playoff games and is playing in a Super bowl, he could probably parlay that in like $50 million a year, but he's still going to get paid. And if he's got five or six teams going after him, maybe it'll be north of 40. He cost himself money, but he didn't cost himself like a chance. And he might have cost himself, I think, a chance to stay in Minnesota because I think that they have the excuse to now hand over the reins to J.J. mcCarthy. But I think he's a Good quarterback. And I think $40 million is not that much to give.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I know that this isn't necessarily a glowing review of a player, and maybe not the way you want to scout somebody, but the best way you could say it is, there's a lot worse out there that are playing and starting in this league now, a lot worse. Giants had three of them this past year.

[Don Hahn]

Exactly, Exactly. Tony in Tampa. You're on espn, New York. Oh, wow.

[Tony]

Boys.

[Don Hahn]

What's up, Tony?

[Tony]

All right, so my question for you guys is. It's quite simple. It's who is the NFL MVP this year and why? And here's why I asked this question. Every single year for every single sport, every time these award honors get brought up, it chaps my rear end, and I'll tell you why.

[Don Hahn]

Okay?

[Tony]

Mvp. Valuable, right? You look at every other sport, they need to go do away with MVP and change it to Most Outstanding Player or something along those lines. Because look at baseball. Shohei Ohtani, he wins mvp. Well, how valuable is he? When you have Mookie Bets, you have Freeman, you have all these. You're surrounded by these guys. If you took Shohei Ohtani off of the Dodgers roster, are they going to dip that much? I mean, they're still going to be great. So I just. LeBron James, for the first seven years of his career, Cleveland stunk. He should have been the MVP for seven straight years. So I think the MVP needs to be changed to Most Outstanding Player. What are your guys thought?

[Don Hahn]

Well, especially in football, because now we're talking about the quarterbacks, right? Is it going to be Allen? Is it going to be Jackson? You know, some people might want to say, hey, where would this team. Where would Washington be without Jaden Daniel? You take any quarterback away from a team, they're gonna. They're gonna be in trouble. Right. I would have no problem if you had two awards. Most Outstanding Player. That means everybody could be eligible. So if you finish in last place, you could still win it. And then Most Valuable Player. Now, there's a lot of times it'll be the same guy, but there'll be some times where there's a difference between the best player and the Most valuable player.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I think that's why they have the Offensive Player of the Year award as well.

[Don Hahn]

True.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Because sometimes, and usually it's a different player, which I think is silly. But I mean, as far. And as far as that debate, I mean, you can sit here and debate it, what you think it's going to be, the cat is out of the bag already. When they announced the All Pro teams on Friday, you knew who. Who's winning the mvp. Lamar Jackson's winning the mvp, and I think deservedly so, because the same people Don, that vote for the mvp, vote for All Pro. It's the media. And Lamar Jackson was voted very handily the first team. All Pro. Quarterback Josh Allen was second team. It was. It was a pretty lopsided vote with first place votes. So Lamar Jackson's gonna win the mvp.

[Don Hahn]

And you know the thing that kind of irks me, and I know that they won't do it because it's unfair they should include the postseason. Now, the argument is, well, you can't do that because you might have a great player that wasn't on a good enough team to make the playoffs. But, Dan, you know what? Like, is so embarrassing to me because we're both hockey fans. Right? Right. Remember the year that the Lightning won the President's Trophy, got bounced in the first round, you know, and Steven Stamkos, I think, won the. The. The most goals, and Andre Vasilevsky won the Vesna for best goal. And they have the awards ceremony at the end of the season, and these guys are all picking up the awards, and you're like, God, that was like, three months ago. They got bounced in the first round. Like, who cares? Like, it didn't feel like, oh, you know, so much happened since they were eliminated. It almost felt like foolish to be handing them an award when they didn't live up to the expectations, you know, like, it's like, so. But then it's.

[Dan Rosenberg]

But then it goes back to the whole argument. Like, okay, like, we. We talked about Sam Darnold a lot. Like, in that, like, Lightning, how many. How many games do they get bounced in that. In that first round? Do you remember off top of your head?

[Don Hahn]

What? Tampa. Yeah, they were swept. Remember? Columbus swept them.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Right. Okay, so. So therefore, like, if you're talking about those awards, are we. Are we using four games as the measuring stick or 82, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's such a small sample size. But I hear what you're saying, but.

[Don Hahn]

I'm saying just extend it out. Like. Like, we're not judging it off those four, but we're just saying is. Is that if somebody is able to do extraordinary things in the postseason, it just seems silly that that doesn't count towards the most valuable player when in the most meaningful games he played great. Like, how foolish would it be to hand Lamar Jackson the MVP if Allen completely outplays him on Sunday and the Buffalo Bills advance. You know what I mean? Like you, you would, you would admit it's close, right? Like, you think Jackson's going to win it, but, you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't blink if Josh Allen won it. But meanwhile, the most meaningful game, they will play against each other on Sunday in Buffalo. That game's not going to count towards the mvp. It does seem weird, right?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Well, that's why hockey, you know, like, like their quote unquote postseason trophy, the con smite that, that rewards the entire playoffs, the three other sports, it's for that, either final game, the super bowl or the championship round, Right? Like the NBA Finals mvp, the World Series mvp. You know, like the hockey one rewards the entire postseason for the cons, Mike.

[Don Hahn]

But, but, but the argument always is, well, you can't do that because it's unfair to the teams that miss the playoffs that they could be taken out of the MVP conversation. Well, do you really deserve to be the MVP if your performance wasn't enough to elevate them into the postseason? Like, it was one thing when baseball only had had four teams make the playoffs, then it was unfair. But right now, 14. Think about that. 14 of 32 teams make the playoffs. So we're not, we're not exactly asking you to do that much to make the playoffs.

[Dan Rosenberg]

You throw away one of Ohtani's MVPs, the one that he won with the Angels when he did. Both pitched and hid and they didn't make the playoffs. All Those Mike Trout MVPs when he didn't make the playoffs. You know, I know we use the Angels as the example, but, you know, it's like, are you really supposed to just ignore what a guy did, even though he was on a horrible team?

[Don Hahn]

But baseball was always the one where you didn't mind doing that because again, only four out of 28 teams made it. You know, but now you've got 30 teams and how many make it 12? So it's becoming a lot easier to make the playoffs is all I'm saying. So why not include everything thing in the conversation?

[Dan Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said. Catch the show on demand whenever you want.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

That's the only band that matters. The clown.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Should I stay or should I go?

[Don Hahn]

Should I cool it or should I blow? 1-800-919-3776 let's dive into the phones, close it out and say hand it off to Ty Butler. How about Griffin in Connecticut? How are you, buddy? I'm good.

[Griffin]

How are you guys?

[Don Hahn]

Fantastic.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Hello, Griff.

[Griffin]

Hey, Dan. Dan. By the way, before I get to the NFL, did you see that teenager from Brazil that ended up beating ruble?

[Dan Rosenberg]

18 years old. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Griffin]

I was like, I woke up this morning and I saw the end of that and I was like, wow, what a win for him.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Good win for sure, anytime you have a win like that. Not surprised with Rublev because he's never made it past the quarters at a grand slam yet, but that's a hell of a win for the kid for sure.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, it really is.

[Griffin]

Yesterday in the NFL game, I feel like the Vikings, the whole thing, I just, what I didn't get is when pressure kept getting to Sam Darnold, they never made adjustments to maybe get the ball to Sam Darnold's hands, maybe quickly. He just kept seeming like he had the ball longer and longer, longer and kept moving backwards. And then the main thing I don't get, maybe you can explain this standard, Dom. Why did they go for it in, in the end of the second quarter when they were down 17 to 3? Why go for it and give the Rams a shorter field and put yourself in a bigger deficit? You are going to get the ball to start the second half, so maybe trust your defense, hopefully get a stop and then score to start the second half. And you never know what would happen.

[Don Hahn]

It was a panic move. I, I, I agree with you, Griffin. I thought it was a panic move. Now listen, it's 17:3, but you got to trust your defense to come up with a stop. You gave him a short field, which I thought was ridiculous. That's a, that's a tough spot, Dan, what did you think?

[Dan Rosenberg]

I thought so too. And one of the things that we haven't even touched on about that game last night too. How about in the second half, like third, like no urgency With Minnesota, when they had the ball, like none, you would have thought they were nursing like a two touchdown lead as opposed to being down by three scores. Like no urgency at all. It, I just, no hurry up, nothing.

[Don Hahn]

It was, it was almost as if it was a lost cause, like they just didn't have any answers, you know. But you're right, there was no urgency. I, I thought that was a panic move to go for it on fourth down with that short field that he gave. And so you handed them a touchdown at the end, you know, you know, stiff put, coffin corner, a kick, get him a three and out. Get the ball to start the second half. You're probably not winning the game anyway just based on how things were going. But that felt like a panic move. That's why I don't want to blame everything on Sam. I think there was a lot of issues there. All right, let's close it out with Artie in Brooklyn. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Artie?

[Tony]

Hey, guys, man, thanks for taking a call. I don't want to go into that same. All these coaches that I'm hearing, fine. You know, whoever they get, I think we'll be in a better position than when we were. But I still want to get the GM first because we keep running into that situation where we get the coach what that consulting firm gets, and then the GM gets criticized because they say it wasn't his guy if things don't work out. And I'll give you a perfect example. I look at all these mock drafts, and they have a cornerback from Michigan, they got a defensive lineman from Michigan, and they got some other guy from Penn State. It could be any of those three guys, and I'd be happy with any of those three. But it does depend on the GM and the coach working together.

[Don Hahn]

Well, they will. Well, Artie, they will work together once they are together on the draft. And thanks for the phone call. We're up against it. I don't like it because like what Bob said, it's real quick. Dan, he's like, well, maybe when they hire the general manager, they'll give him a say on the coat. Really? You've interviewed half of the guys already anyway. I just think they look at them as completely separate entities.

[Dan Rosenberg]

I think the GM will get hired first when hopefully it's sooner rather than later.

[Don Hahn]

That's what you kind of hope. And they're interviewing everybody. We'll see. Dan, this was a lot of fun. Let's do it again tomorrow.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Let's do it. Loved it.

[Don Hahn]

And maybe we'll have another person in the world by the time we get to tomorrow. And that'll be Peter's daughter. We will talk to you again tomorrow. Ty Butler's up next.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to my Don, Han and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the.

[Don Hahn]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good.

[Dan Rosenberg]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 88 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.