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- [00:00]
A
You know, I had an interaction with a student when I was in San Francisco. I was not the first woman as dean of the conservatory, which was my role. Then a graduate student said to me, I like that you're our dean. I can see myself. And it was like, whoa. I hope I can be a positive influence and make space for all kinds of people in every corner of the school. And it's certainly a motivator that you can lift yourself up and lift others up to and make sure that everybody sees themselves reflected so that that's not a roadblock for them.
- [00:31]
B
Welcome to the PM Podcast, brought to you by Evertru Studios, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators, and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy, and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost. In this episode, we speak with Kate Sheeran, Joan, and Martin Messenger, Dean of the Eastman School of Music, about her journey from professional musician to leading one of the greatest music conservatories in the world. Kate reflects on the experiences that shaped her path from performing at the highest levels as a French horn player to leading major institutions like Kaufman Music center, to returning to the school where she got her start. We begin our conversation with a moment that set it all in motion. How a choice between a jean jacket and a French horn pointed her toward a life in music. I do like to find out where people started this whole journey, and I know that your journey is largely a musical one, but let's go way back. I mean, people don't always pick up the horn as their first instrument, but maybe you did. Where did the whole fascination with music start? And then the horn?
- [01:39]
A
I think music generally was always something I was drawn to as a kid. And I think a lot of that is my mom would sing with us. My grandfather was always playing the piano. We were in piano lessons as young children. I loved my elementary school music teacher. Music was around home, just informally, socially, dance classes, things like that. And then I got to elementary school, and because I, you know, had grown up singing and had music classes and things, I had good pitch. My elementary music school teacher, who I really loved, suggested I play French horn because I had good pitch. One thing led to another, and I said, sure. My very first French horn was one that my brother's friend played, and they traded for a jeans jacket for a French horn. That got me started, you know, he said, oh, I don't, you know, would you trade me this? Okay, my sister will play that French horn. And, you know, I had it for a couple years. And then later On I started taking private lessons since my parents invested in a nicer instrument and things like that, but you never know where you'll start.
- [02:50]
B
But this also means that you had a music program in your elementary school.
- [02:54]
A
That's right.
- [02:54]
B
An elementary school teacher. That's.
- [02:56]
A
Yeah. I'm actually from a tiny little town in Vermont called Clarendon, and we had a really good music teacher at elementary school, and then later on in high school, both great choral and instrumental teachers. So I really benefited from that. And then, of course, parents who supported that and then helped me get private lessons. There was a youth orchestra starting nearby at the time. So I got the conductor of the youth orchestra taught at Dartmouth College, which wasn't too far away. His wife was a French horn teacher. They had worked professionally in the tri state area. So it was a series of one thing leading to the next. And certainly a series of adults, both within my family and mentors, who became really important to me, who kind of got me to cobble together that track.
- [03:46]
B
Even when we're lucky enough to have a family that loves music, yours apparently did, or at least condones it or supports it, encourages it, or a music school system, which not everybody has today. And I'd love to talk with you about that more, but that doesn't always lead specifically to classical music.
- [04:06]
A
Yeah.
- [04:07]
B
A lot of your work is, I know, across a variety of genres, but particularly classical music. So do you remember those early kind of classical influences or experiences?
- [04:19]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think because of the instrument I was playing that sort of led me to certain repertoire and certain opportunities. When I was in junior high school is when I started first playing in youth orchestra. And then we had a horn quartet, you know, at my teacher's house and things like that. And soon after, I auditioned for Ken Haven Music School, which is in Vermont. Most students who go there, I think, still come from all over the country, but it was only about a half an hour from where we lived. And the heart of that program is chamber music. There's also an orchestral program. And also everyone learns to sing together. So everyone's an instrumental major, but you learn the same Bach chorales and madrigals. And so at meals you're singing these. You know, you might be singing a Bach chorale before you go to sleep, you might be singing an English madrigal while you're waiting for dinner to be served, those types of things. So I was fully immersed in communal music making, both in chamber music and singing. And I think I was probably 16 when I first went there, and that's kind of when I thought, ah, this is for me, this whole, you know, music making with. With your friends saying, this is for me.
- [05:30]
B
And that does put you in a. In a particular community, doing that sort of thing, loving that kind of music, but also being able to be vulnerable like that musically around another group of people. So what was it like then, going back to, I don't know, school after the summer, and then hanging out with the friends who never traded the jean jacket for the horn. What was that like?
- [05:51]
A
Well, I think, you know, I had. Growing up in Vermont really teaches you community. So there were. Through lines of that, right? So we had close friends. Chamber music is community. You know, living in a small town is community. People help each other, all of that. So there's some through lines there. And my friends tended to be my music friends, even if we were a small bunch. And as few of us have gone on into professional music making. And it's so fun to run into, you know, the two or three people from your high school class in the small town that you see that now work at various organizations or do various performances. And then I would get together with friends that I met during the summer in New York or in Boston. I later, my mom, my senior year drove me to New England Conservatory to do youth orchestra every Saturday, three hours each way. You know, so that was just for a year. But that those were sort of the things that got me from high school in Vermont to later, you know, auditioning for music school.
- [06:54]
B
One thing that occurs me in talking about this is that we're talking about the French horn. Like it's a common instrument and all music is hard, but really wonderful if you enjoy it. Uh, but would it be a stretch to say that the horn is a pretty difficult instrument to master?
- [07:12]
A
It has that reputation. I, I mean, I make the joke now, which is sort of true, that being a French horn player is a lot like running an organization, because you have to be both bold and humble. You have to really go for it, knowing sometimes you're not going to quite make it or something's going to go awry or something. And, you know, it's because the, the. The partials are so close together that you really have to hear it first for it to come out. But in high school, I was usually the only person playing French horn. One year I taught one of my friends to play, so I'd have someone in the section. You know, in a small town, there's not a gaggle of French horn players sitting around. So later on, when I got to know more horn players. They also became good friends.
- [07:51]
B
And so clearly you enjoyed it. I mean, because a lot of people will pass from instrument to instrument as they're going through their journey. But that was the one that stuck.
- [07:59]
A
Yeah. And I like a lot of the repertoire. I like that you, you know, you're sort of part of the woodwind family and sort of part of the brass family. You're playing an orchestra. You can play in different settings. It just seemed to fit.
- [08:15]
B
I'm trying to imagine what kind of music you were playing, because one of the other challenges of doing something when you're doing it as a young person is that it meets you where you are, but also lets you grow. And so the music that you were playing then must have still been inspiring enough that you were willing to keep at it.
- [08:34]
A
Oh, yeah. And. And a lot of that was chamber music. I also had a woodwind quintet in high school. A lot of it was orchestra. And then, you know, when you're in a small town in a small state, you start to feel like, okay, what's the next thing? And that's when we would drive to Boston, or I would, you know, find other opportunities for competitions, things like that. So I think that's also a through line for me is I like a challenge, I like a deadline. I like going for the next big thing. And certainly playing an instrument always gets you there. I mean, I've seen it now over generations, so many students who take what they learn playing an instrument and apply it to so many other things, because you. You learn to strive for excellence. You learn to keep honing something. You learn to take on a challenge, to face your fears. And I think I liked all of that. I still like different processes like that that are akin to practicing and going for goals because it's satisfying.
- [09:32]
B
You use that word, challenges and challenges. I mean, I remember that they were calling them challenges at the music camps, at least summer music camp. And those can be pretty ruthless. I mean, it's not just challenging yourself. It's also really a battle for a
- [09:46]
A
first depends on the place. I didn't happen to grow up in those environments necessarily. I always felt more like I was challenging myself. And then. And later on in music school, and I think we do a pretty good. You know, I went to Eastman, so as an undergrad, my experience here was more supportive than ruthless. And I try to make those environments for young people, too, because that's when you do your best.
- [10:13]
B
Now, you were just talking about how you would take these three hour trips to New England Conservatory, which is an astonishing place in and itself. Obviously Eastman is too. But for people who don't know Eastman, first of all, how would you characterize it? And think back to what it was like when you were thinking about where you would go to school?
- [10:34]
A
Oh, yeah, okay. Well, so I was. That's interesting because at the time I was doing youth orchestra in the conservatory, I had visited some schools all through kind of the Northeast. But my mom and my French horn teacher and I went on this giant road trip and we went to various schools in the Northeast. We went out to Ohio, we visited all these schools. And I remember at the time, you know, I played for all these different teachers. I got a cold at some point and I thought, I just want to go home. I just want to go home. And my teacher said, well, I think you really should stop at Eastman. I think, you know, you really, you can't miss this. And it's on our way home. So I thought, okay, okay. You know, sort of rallied the energy. And then I walked into the building and I'll never forget the feeling. It's an incredible place. It's an inspiring, you know, build a set of buildings. The theater is breathtaking, everything. So I remember walking in our main hall, which we now call Lowry hall, and seeing all the action and everything happening. And then I knew some friends from youth orchestras and camps and things before who quickly scooped me up to take me on a tour. So it is a beautiful, like, aesthetically beautiful environment, the buildings, the halls and things like that. But it's a warm place where people are friendly and there's always something happening here. We have about 900 students, just a little larger than when I was here, you know, 20 something years ago. But we're all on this downtown campus together. And then we have students who also take courses at the rest of the university, at the University of Rochester, and some even do dual degree programs and things like that. That's about a ten minute drive away. But we're kind of here in this, you know, arts driven community in downtown Rochester.
- [12:18]
B
Was that part of your journey too? Were you thinking, I'm going to go to this place that I just found that is really lovely despite your cold and just do music? Or were you thinking, I can explore all these different things because Eastman is a jewel in a bigger crown?
- [12:33]
A
Yeah, for me at that time, I was all music for sure. What ended up. And if you had asked me when I was 18 what I wanted to do, I probably would have said I wanted to just play orchestra, chamber music, Whatever. What ended up happening was that I did do just that. But at the time, it was the start of what we now call the Institute for Music Leadership. And there was an arts Leadership Certificate program, which was maybe it was in its second or third year when I was an undergrad. And really, it was a set of courses where you could explore different topics with different faculty. And through that, I ended up taking a lot of courses with some of our music education faculty and learning more about how you might run an organization. I did some internships and things through that program. And it didn't shift my focus from performance. It just sort of opened up a few different pathways of how I might shape what was specifically of interest to me or how I could shape a suite of things that resonated with me. And I was sort of figuring out that I was good at sort of rallying people together or taking charge in certain situations or things like that. And so I don't know that I would have predicted how the threads would have woven together, but that's where they started.
- [13:53]
B
I'm trying to imagine what it must be like to encounter some of that for the first time. Because if you're there thinking you want to presumably perform. Right?
- [14:04]
A
Yeah.
- [14:04]
B
Because you didn't mention composition. I don't know if that's part of your life or not, but.
- [14:08]
A
No, I've had the great pleasure to work with many wonderful composers, but I'm not a composer yet.
- [14:12]
B
And so you're there to play, and sounds like both play as a. Maybe as a soloist, because certainly that's important. Part of an ensemble. Small ensembles, chamber music, and the large ensembles. There's a lot right there. And as you're starting to do these other things and then discovering this other part of yourself, what was the attraction there? You said kind of managing things. But what did you find was the appeal? And did you find music education as a component of that appeal? You've already cited your music teacher as being a really important force. When you were quite young. Were you starting to see that writ large then, as you were thinking about this broader issue?
- [14:50]
A
And I had a number of teachers when I was young that were really important to me. So I think that I saw as something that's very important. For whatever reason, I didn't then, nor have I ever seen myself as necessarily a classroom teacher or somebody who would be running a band program or choral program. Those are very important jobs. But it didn't seem like my path. And we do have a wonderful music teaching and learning program here. And so some of the faculty overlapped. And so, you know, so I could. There were through lines with education, there were through lines with leadership, there were through lines with helping other people to make music. Often I would have been the one in, in the hall and when you walk into school helping my friends to say, okay, that person plays violin, that person plays viola. Go over. This is their name. Go ask them to play on your recital. Obviously we do this in different ways now. You know, this was pre social media, but I knew people, I knew names and faces, I knew what made people tick to help put together groups. And I loved doing that. So that's a through line for sure.
- [15:53]
B
Had you already started building some ensembles as well?
- [15:57]
A
You know, we put together your own chamber groups here. So I did that. You know, I had my own wind quintet and things like that. The other thing that was happening at the time here at Eastman was a group of composers and performers were starting a collective called osea. OSEA is, you know, in music terms means an alternative. And it is a student run organization that puts on concerts of new music. Small and large ensemble puts, manages their own concert series, things like that. OSEA still exists here. It started around when I was a student and I started playing in OSEA and I learned more about collaborating with composers in real time and things like that. What then happened was that OSEA was. The original founders of OSEA were graduating. They started a group called Alarm Will Sound. Now I had played with the members of Alarm Will Sound in osea. They were my classmates, they were my friends. And later on I ended up, after I went to graduate school at Yale, I ended up being sort of their intern and personnel manager through a small grant from Eastman, through this arts leadership program I did. And that was a time when I was doing some teaching, I was doing performing in local orchestra. This was in Pennsylvania. We had a residency and I was really helping to run the ensemble and that those three things in combination seemed like a good formula for me. So that was a through line that came from Eastman that took a little while, a little while longer to connect. But Alarm Will Sound is now coming back. You know, they've. They just won their first grammy. We're now 25 years in. They're coming back for a reunion concert here in the fall. Many of the members of my are my dear friends, so you never know what's going to happen. But all those things were sort of happening for me over the course of my undergraduate years.
- [17:54]
B
And Alarm Will Sound, is that the new music part of your musical experience? Because I know you've done stuff with non such and others. So is that
- [18:03]
A
when I my first, I lived in New York City for the vast majority of my adult life and some of those years I was freelancing a little bit more than doing administrative things. But many of those years I had a full time administrative job and still worked in a whole bunch of performing professionally. And so I played in many new music ensembles on recordings and partly because I knew people through Eastman, through Larmal Sound, really loved working with composers and things like that. So I ended up playing on some interesting recordings and concerts and various projects.
- [18:43]
B
I'm asking you about that in part because probably the same kind of reason I was asking you about music education, that some of us have access to it, some of us don't, and that sometimes then influences us about what we think is important, but also what we want to provide to others, like you're doing today. But I know that music organizations, particularly performance organizations, have in some respects struggled for audience over time. And part of that people will say it's maybe the media we use. You mentioned social media a minute ago. Maybe it's the graying of the audience. Is one of these phrases that people use. Another one has to do with maybe the music that's being performed. Is it relatable? You probably ran into all these issues over time with the musical choices that your ensembles performed. But also even now today at Eastman, which we'll get into later, the. The kinds of musical choices which performers are making today, they want to be challenged, they want to do great things, but they're also working in a challenging environment of what people are exposed to and what they're willing to, you know, kind of ingest and enjoy.
- [19:51]
A
Yeah.
- [19:52]
B
What did you find as you made that musical journey and you wanted to be able to, I'm sure, both play Beethoven. Sure, there's a lot of great horn parts, but also then play, you know, play whatever was new.
- [20:03]
A
Yeah. You know, many of these things are marketing and psychology and business challenges almost more than they are repertoire challenges, because it's about finding people who might be interested in something new or connecting with an audience or building relationships within a community. And so then they want to come see you because they've invested in you as a person and you've had an impact on them. And I've seen everything work or just like a savvy marketing campaign, you know, there's all kinds of things. Programming and audience development here at Eastman is some of all of those things. And then we also have the component of As a music. Over a thousand concerts every academic year.
- [20:55]
B
Wow.
- [20:56]
A
The majority of those, you know, over 800 of those are performed by faculty and students. So we're welcoming it. And the vast majority of those concerts are free and open to the public. We're welcoming in. We'd love to welcome, you know, full audiences for every concert, but it's near impossible with that many. Because part of the role of concerts here is making sure students have the experience and you have an internal audience of your friends who are coming or your family who might be coming. We also stream everything. And so a lot of our audience is national and international because it's the friends and family of the students who are tuning in. And we present artists, guest artists, and we present our faculty. And beyond that, we're the home for the Rochester Philharmonic. We host various festivals here. There's all kinds of things. So we do have some of every challenge. I don't think anyone knows the answer to those questions, but when we stop asking why are we doing this and who wants to listen and who should be hearing this, then we're not doing our job, even if every seat is full. Right. Because art is about connecting, and you want someone to have an opinion whether they like it or they didn't like it. I think also sometimes we've thought, oh, you have to say you like it all the time. You can appreciate a performance without necessarily liking the reputation, just like you can go into a gallery and like some paintings or sculptures more than others. So when you're around so many concerts all the time, that's very present. But if you're in a different environment, you know, someone might go to a concert once a month. That's not my life. My life is most nights I'm at a concert. And so you think about it sort of through a different lens. I think we've. We've thought about these challenges a lot. Post Covid, I did a lot of work. I'm proud of bringing music to people during COVID in my life, last role in New York City. But we worried that, you know, because of digital streaming and all kinds of things, that people wouldn't come back. But people came back because people need to be together. You know, human beings need to be in communal spaces having emotional experiences, whether that's going to a movie or going to hear a chorus or going to an opera, things like that. Like, there's. There's something primal as that drives us to be together, to have communal experiences. So that's part of this equation, too. Audience behavior have certainly Changed since, you know, even since COVID where they're less predictable, maybe subscriber base is harder to come by, things like that. So we're always thinking about it from all different angles. And then you're also here. I'm also thinking about what's the optimal experience for our students as performers. Like, we want them to have a great experience performing for, you know, an audience who's happy to be there as well.
- [23:56]
B
Yeah, I'm still stunned by a thousand a year because that's three concerts a day. But roughly, you talked about how the audience had changed post Covid, or maybe between before and after the pandemic. I'm curious how you think they've changed, but also how they're different not just in the broader world like in New York, but how they're different, maybe if at all, at Eastman, because you were there as a student going to a lot of concerts as well as performing in them, and you're there today. How has this kind of student audience for music changed as much as, you know, the outside audience?
- [24:36]
A
I think there are a lot of, in a happy way. There are a lot of happy parallels to the things I remember being great when I was a student, right? When people say to me, do you think, oh, do you think classical music's in trouble or music's in trouble or things like that? It's impossible for me to think that because I'm surrounded by 900 young people in our degree programs and then another 1700 in our community music school, both from toddlers all the way to seniors who are really happily immersed in music. So it's not just us, right? But yes, this is a music fueled town. Rochester is, and, and Eastman is one of the best music schools in the world, of course. But people keep signing up and keep coming, and our admissions remain strong and our students come from all over the world. So I don't think any of that is in jeopardy. I think we have to evolve. I think we have to address challenges in our industry. Everything from technology to all the different ways artistic careers evolve over time. But the students still show up for each other and scream like it's their pep rally at the end of a concert and they flood out into the hallway and it's like a lineup after a, you know, what most people would associate with maybe a sporting event where they come out in a line and they high five and cheer. And that happens here every night. So. And that's how I remember it as a student as well.
- [26:07]
B
That's, that's an amazing experience. For a student, but also for anybody who's just standing around witnessing it, that really ramps up the enthusiasm.
- [26:14]
A
That's right. It's like, oh, you need some joy here, come with me.
- [26:17]
B
Yeah. Well, another part of this that I know will be of interest to many people in our audience has to do with how to make this work possible. So just for a second, I'd love to ask you about that, because one of the reasons why people have been so fraught about all those things you just said, is there an audience for classical music? Is our audience getting old? All these other things that people worry about, some which may be true, some not, and there are recipes for addressing it. You've just discussed. But. But the revenue has also been an issue, not just where we used to get money. I'm an old NEA staff member, so some, some of the money may not be available to us. And it's not all ticket revenue. It's also contributed revenue. What, what has that been like as you made your journey both in New York through all these institutions and then today?
- [27:12]
A
I mean, every. I've run different kinds of organizations. I've sort of gone back and forth between those community music and K12 and public school and also higher ed in both. Absolute. We do not succeed without philanthropic support. Whether that's historical, that represents itself in the form of endowment, spinoff or current use funds. But it is about passionate people supporting things they care about because they've had a transformative experience. And I think that's one of the things that may be hardest about this, but it's actually one of the most meaningful when you get to, you know, in this role. I spend a lot of time talking to alumni who had similar experiences to what I had, who want to make sure that generations of students also have that experience. What a beautiful thing. You know, we, that we can be custodians of that and also make sure that the education evolves. But tuition revenue obviously is part of our equation, but the need of we, we in any, again, any place I've ever been, and it's certainly true here, we want to make sure that students can come to Eastman. Students who should be coming to Eastman can come to Eastman regardless of financial circumstances. So that's always the biggest goal. Scholarship is always our biggest goal, and making sure those students have an excellent experience. But I think, you know, I've been here a year and a half and identifying the areas where we need support and where and the vision forward so that we can have people who help us invest in that vision is the number one priority always. Because that's what helps our students the most, for them to be as much as we can help them to be free of the burden of paying for an education that will last them a lifetime. But we want to make sure that it's within reach.
- [29:08]
B
Yeah, I do want to ask you about this, so I'm going to jump to it. But I didn't want to leave out the fact that you have been at several institutions in a senior leadership role, and each of those is a different kind of experience from New York to San Francisco. So I just, I just wanted to make sure. I acknowledge that and love to talk to you more about it. But you're right there at Eastman in that seat, and it's probably valuable for people to know how few people have occupied the chair that you're in.
- [29:38]
A
I am the eighth person in our 105 year history. Right.
- [29:43]
B
And the kind of people who have been in that seat are also. It's pretty extraordinary list of people.
- [29:50]
A
I have, I have illustrious group of predecessors. Yeah, absolutely.
- [29:57]
B
So what was it like for you to, to, you know, entertain that position? I don't know how you, how did you get the position?
- [30:07]
A
I was, at the time, I was the executive director of Cafe Music center in New York City, a place I love dearly. I will always love dearly. I love that job. And I, you know, as these things happen, you get an inquiry from people helping with the search process to ask if there's, if you have any suggestions or any input on the search for the dean. And I had known that my predecessor was stepping down. It had been public information, but I hadn't thought to throw my hat in the ring. But then when I got that reach out, there was something in my gut that said, you're going to regret it if you don't see about this. You know, it's your alma mater. It's a place I love. Many of my nearest and dearest friends and mentors are from Eastman. And so I thought, might as well have a conversation. And then one thing led to another. I ended up coming here to visit and, you know, over about a six month process, was offered the job and came here in July of 2024.
- [31:07]
B
Even if you're being, if one is being recruited for a role like that, even if it's their alma mater, which must feel particularly special.
- [31:16]
A
Yes.
- [31:17]
B
You made a choice.
- [31:19]
A
Yeah.
- [31:20]
B
Why did you choose to go back? I mean, especially given that there have been so few people in that role. That's a very special kind of choice. To make for yourself?
- [31:30]
A
Yeah. I think when I came here and when I had more conversations, I could see opportunities where I could be of use. And that's what I really want to do in my career is can, can I be helpful? Right. These jobs are really, you know, people think it's being a dean is sitting in a room and, you know, making decisions all day. It's really like, how can I be of service? How can I be of help? And the best way I know how to do that is to put myself in the shoes of the people that, that, that are at the organization where that you're leading. So do I know what it's like to be a student or a faculty member? Might I be able to put myself in the shoes of a donor or prospective parent or things like that? And if you can think through that and think need and how you might help to maintain what's there and build for the future, then you can be helpful. So I could see ways that my experience in different places might be a fit. I had conversations along that line. I think Rochester is a beautiful place to live, actually. I had been in New York for a long time. I also felt like Cafe Music center was in a good spot, had a great leadership team that I was fortunate to build there. And we had done accomplished a lot of the things that I had set out to do over six years. And so we were sort of at a natural point where I could see them succeeding and they certainly have without me. So it was just kind of this inflection point in both places that I could see it working.
- [33:05]
B
I believe you're the first woman to occupy that role.
- [33:07]
A
I am, Yeah.
- [33:11]
B
I know that something like that shouldn't be remarkable and you haven't mentioned it, but it, but I remember years ago, people studying music, when I got my start professionally in my work, people being in certain fields, being discouraged by particular teachers if they were women for their careers, that they were perceived as not physically strong enough for that role or all this other stuff that people would say, yeah, I won't even characterize it beyond that, but, but we've heard these things. So how remarkable is it to you that, that you're. Now, how does it feel to be in that. In that role, given that you're the first woman to do it? And there are so few women who have, I think around the country who have been in, who have had the opportunity to do what they could do, leading world leading institutions in music.
- [34:13]
A
Here are some of the things I think about when I think about that Right. If I stop to think about that, sometimes it's a little overwhelming. But the things I think about are, as I ascended in my career, sometimes when I got to the next point, it became clear to me the people who cleared a pathway for me in the job before. Right. And so the women who were making space or the men who were making space, both are true. And I've been very fortunate to be encouraged by many people throughout my career. And so I think about the opportunity to do that as much as I can for other people. And I really believe that the whole adage, if you can see it, you can be. It is so true. And so the exciting thing is the next woman who has this job can, you know, perhaps she may have seen it as a possibility for her even earlier, because I was able to do it. So I think it's a. And I think about that for our students. I had an interaction with a student when I was in San Francisco. I was not the first woman as dean of the conservatory, which was my role then, but a young student, a graduate student, said to me, I like that you're our dean. I can see myself. And it was like, whoa. Maybe I had thought about that, but her actually saying it to me kind of changed things for me, that she actually said it. So I hope I can be a positive influence and make space for all kinds of people in every corner of the school. And it's certainly a motivator that you can lift yourself up and lift others up, too, and make sure that everybody sees themselves reflected so that that's not a roadblock for them.
- [35:58]
B
Use that phrase, which. I love it. You know, if you can see it, you can achieve it, essentially. And so now that you're. That's one thing to get a role. It's another thing to be in a position where you can do all these things that maybe you imagined doing anywhere, but particularly doing it for your alma mater in a place with this kind of storied history, but also the dedication. So one of the other challenges in the arts sector hasn't been just the resources and the attention. It's also been whether the institutions were really going to do what they needed to do. Clearly, you know, Eastman has that commitment. It's had it for a very long time. So as you're now imagining what. What is possible, what do you see that you're trying to achieve? What are the. The big elements that you'd like to bring to Eastman, maybe that you didn't have as a student and you haven't seen elsewhere
- [36:48]
A
well, there are small and large answers to that. I think some of it are new programs we're working on. Some is the cult, you know, our cultural shifts or things we want students to make sure they feel and experience as a community member here. Some of it is how we model what. What impact music has on a city, on a community, so that all of the students, if you imagine our students come from, I don't know, 40 countries, something like that, if they learn how to have a great impact on someone and brighten their day, or give music to someone who wouldn't otherwise have it, or educate someone who might not otherwise have it, if they learn to do that here and then they bring that all over the world, that's impact, right? So we have to make sure that we're making pathways for students to use their music in impactful ways here. And I think our faculty are really great about doing that. I think there's even more we could, you know, do over time with building community programming, broadening our impact on music education, both through a community music school and the ways it connects to our music teaching, learning program. And one of the questions I get asked the most is, what about AI? Is that going to replace musicians? And what about this and what, you know, in terms of technology? Well, no, I hope not. I think people making music has been part of our existence since the beginning of humanity, and I can't imagine it goes away. Maybe it'll evolve. But I do think just like any other technological advance, we need to embrace the technology, learn about it, be part of the creation and implementation of it, instead of ignoring it. And we have a really exciting collaboration with the Hagen School of Engineering and Applied Sciences here at the university, where we're building a department together that encompasses their audio music engineering program, a new music technology program we're building, and all the ways that the students and faculty in those programs can collaborate, both at Eastman and throughout the university. And so when you think of advances in AI or software development, or the next best speaker to be developed or anything, it could happen here. So I love that. Alongside, of course, the traditional majors that we've had and will always have. But thinking about how things evolve in tandem instead of separately, and leave musicians out, but instead bring musicians into the fold.
- [39:21]
B
So if you. And I'm sure you see a lot of people like yourself as young students coming onto campus, what do you imagine it's like for them as they come out the other side of this experience? What do you think that the world is like for them as they enter this musical world,
- [39:41]
A
I think it's equal parts. The world is your oyster. And this is really tough. Right. And we have to be really honest about both. Being an artist means shaping a whole career. It doesn't mean just one thing. Even if you win a job at an orchestra, you probably will also play education concerts and have a private studio and be on the musicians committee and all these things. It's multifaceted. Right. So we want to make sure that we're educating multifaceted artists who have multiple pathways to make their way. We also want to make sure that students understand the challenges and get as much information as they can while they're here and also learn to take risks, calculated risks, while they're here. Here is where you want to try out. Starting your own little organization or, you know, working with a composer for the first time, or learning about how an arts organization works, or collaborating with someone in a different field, or, you know, any number of things so that it's your incubator to really try out projects before you're out, you know, and that rent bill is staring you in the face and you have, you know, all kinds of bills to pay and you're just figuring out a new city and, and, and all those things.
- [40:51]
B
Yeah. What's the best part of this for you?
- [40:55]
A
The students. I mean, our students are, they're wonderful. They're like, they're interesting people. They're great musicians. You get to see them be excited about music every day. They're constantly discovering things. So I think that is the best part. And obviously our faculty are some of the best musicians in the world and great people. And the amount they invest in students is miraculous. They're sharing their expertise, but they're encouraging them in the hallway or in the concert hall, and you just see it every day. So I think that's one of the best parts. And I, I have been grateful to benefit from wonderful musical communities and communities, musical communities and musical experiences. And so I get to help shape that for, for students of this generation. And that's pretty, that's. That. That's pretty life affirming.
- [41:52]
B
How many concerts are you to go to this year?
- [41:55]
A
I know I don't count, but I, you know, it depends where I am, but usually I'm. But something like three a week. I would say sometimes way more, sometimes less if I'm on the road or something like that. This week I'm traveling, so I have two concerts in New York this week. This is a light week. We just came back from spring break, so there's no concerts. Well, I don't go to every concert. I try to go to as many large student concerts as I can, as many faculty concerts as I can. But our students all have degree recitals as they finish their degrees and it would be impossible to go to all of those. But the faculty go to they divide up between department and go to all the student recitals.
- [42:36]
B
Are you playing in a concert this year?
- [42:40]
A
I don't. Let me think, have I? Okay, I don't play professionally anymore. But our horn professor was my horn professor, Peter Giro, and he encourages me to play in horn choir at least once a year, which is really nice because a if I have time to get my chops in shape, I'll do that. But. But it's nice. The students are very kind to me and they make me a little cheat sheet of what seats to move around to in case I forgot, and they make sure I have my parts and everything. And so I might sit in once a year with Horne Choir.
- [43:12]
B
Well, that's it for this episode of the PM Podcast. You can learn more about Kate's work and the Eastman School of Music at ESM Rochester. Edu. Our thanks to our sponsors sponsor Evertrue, the global leader in donor engagement and fundraising intelligence, helping non profits find, engage and inspire their supporters. Our producer is Jack Frost, and our theme music is Moving Out, Moving in by Jay Taylor, provided courtesy of Epidemic Sound. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And don't forget to check out our sister shows, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Rays, all part of the Philanthropy Mastermind series. Until next time. I'm Jay Frost. Thanks for joining me.