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- [00:00]
Roger Alley
This is the opportunity for us to lean in and speak on behalf of the sector or to be able to ramp up our advocacy efforts because it will change the minds of whether it's a senator or a governor or, you know, someone that we're speaking with who can actually help us to bring our voice through them.
- [00:25]
Jay Frost
Welcome to the PM Podcast, brought to you by Donor Search, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy, and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost. Roger Alley is chair of the AFP Global Board and one of the most respected voices in nonprofit leadership. With more than two decades in the field, he has led teams that have raised over $150 million through transformative capital campaigns and major gift strategies, holding senior roles at Niagara Health Foundation, Hamilton Health Sciences foundation, and the Bishop Strachan School Foundation. Today, Roger is an independent consultant specializing in governance, major gifts, campaign strategy, and staff development. He also serves as Senior Associate with S. Sutton and Associates, advising non profits across the sectors. A lifelong champion of ethical and inclusive philanthropy, Rogers sits on the boards of Imagine Canada and has held numerous leadership roles with afp, including past Chair of the AFP foundation for Philanthropy Canada and President of the AFP Golden Horseshoe Chapter. We spoke with him about his personal and professional journey and how it led to his role in sharing the world's largest fundraising association today.
- [01:40]
Interviewer
Well, I do want to ask you about your own beginnings, not just in this profession, not just that part, but you. For people who don't know, Roger, where.
- [01:50]
Jay Frost
Does your story begin?
- [01:52]
Interviewer
I understand your family is originally not from Canada, but is it from Nicaragua?
- [01:56]
Roger Alley
No. You know, that's interesting because Nicaragua is a country I studied when I was in geography in grade 12, but I'm from the West Indies, so not, not even close. Not even close. So I was born in Trinidad, so I'm an Indo Korean, Caribbean Canadian, if that's sort of the. The proper sort of description. And my family came to Trinidad from India, so that would be. I believe it's my great grandfather who came over as an indentured laborer. So at the time, you know, they were, they were bringing these individuals essentially to be slaves to work on the sugar plantations in the Caribbean and in Trinidad in particular, because the country had such rich natural resources, both in oil and. And sugarcane plantations. So that's, that's my home country and where my family is from or were born and, and that's where I was born and, and grew up, you know, until I was, until I was 50 and it was sort of around that age that I made the decision actually to, to come to Canada. So that's kind of how it started. And, and I, I wouldn't have, you know, I wouldn't have decided to come to Canada or, you know, leave my family. But I was just intrigued by a first visit with my mom to Canada. And I think it was just more of the attraction of Hamilton, where I currently live. So that's sort of a, in a nutshell, how this all came about. Never been to Nicaragua, though, Jay.
- [03:54]
Interviewer
I don't know where they came from. That's the dangers of research.
- [03:58]
Roger Alley
That's all right.
- [03:59]
Interviewer
I'm glad to know the real story. So you came, that was. You were quite young when you made that visit with your mother. What prompted the visitors to Hamilton?
- [04:09]
Roger Alley
Yeah, she was visiting one of her close cousins and thought it would be kind of neat to bring me along because I was one of two, you know, siblings and my other sibling was much younger. So, yeah, I came with her on this trip and was just sort of quite intrigued by McMaster University. And I think it's just more so the city itself because I had never been to North America before. I had traveled to other places, primarily in the Caribbean. And this was kind of my first, shall we say, big trip. And it just opened my eyes more so about. I was intrigued by the vibrancy of the city, the university, the campus, the layout. I think it was more of that. And I think I've always been, you know, a global citizen, if you will. So I think deep down inside, whether my mother knew it or not, that, you know, this was kind of my first step to bigger and better things that I had planned for myself.
- [05:24]
Interviewer
So tell me about, about your family, about your. Your parents. So what kind of work did they do? Because you mentioned being kind of a global citizen, that thinking sometimes arises naturally in person, but sometimes it's also exp. What was your family like?
- [05:39]
Roger Alley
Yeah, you know, we were definitely a very close knit family. My mom was a nurse, and I think that certainly, I would say, influenced my career and the fundraising that I did, because half of my career, the latter half, was in health care, philanthropy. But I think during her time that wasn't the norm to be a professional and to, you know, go to college and become a nurse and really follow that path. And my dad was an accountant and he worked at one of the oil companies. So they both worked in the same roles for their entire careers. So I would say definitely, you know, middle class professionals. And I think what I loved about my family is just that sense of. I felt like I belonged because they made sure, you know, we had all of the things we needed in. In as kids. You know, it's like, of course, I might be dating myself here. When I say, you know, I was like 10 when I got my first sort of RCA TV in my bedroom. It was this sort of red, you know. Well, now it's like this red, like this space, like sort of heavy machine that was sitting on a table. But that at the time, I mean, that was pretty exciting, you know, to have your own tv. And so things like that and the ability to, you know, travel and go to restaurants and things like that. I mean, all of those things, you know, we had. And we had those rich experiences. And I really feel that it shaped who I am today and, you know, what I do and how I feel. And my culture. The culture then has translated into. It's almost like in your DNA and what you do and the things you appreciate. And where my life took me after.
- [07:50]
Interviewer
I left there, I know that with many people I speak with, there's a moment where they're involved with, I don't know, a church or synagogue or mosque or something, or they've seen their parents volunteering in some organization with two professional parents. You may have seen a lot of that or you may not, because they must have been working pretty hard as a nurse and an accountant. But did you have exposure to the organizations outside of work that kind of gave you a hint as to the kind of work that you do today?
- [08:23]
Roger Alley
Yeah, you know, that is. That is such a great question, because we made time and it was part of our weekly lives to go to church and to be involved and volunteer. And I really feel that has shaped my career. So we. We religiously went to church on a Sunday, and as Pentecostals, you know, it. It was long services. It was. It wasn't sort of, you know, your one hour. I remember sometimes it would take, you know, two hours and. And I was very much involved in Sunday school and learning all of the books in the Bible and being able to recite them and participate in concerts and to write articles about your personal beliefs once you've read a chapter or a verse. So all those things were part of our, I would say, upbringing and certainly volunteering. And I didn't fully appreciate it at the time. But as you asked me to reflect on this, I think back of, you know, we were. We were involved as kids to help and feed individuals who were homeless. And I remember that, you know, My parents would bring packages of food to these homeless individuals or the Home for the Aged, as. As it was called. And we would actually give each, you know, whether it's a retiree or an elderly person, money. I remember my mother would, you know, give us the money and we had to hand it out. I remember I had to give it to each person or I was, you know, encouraged and put to the forefront. So, you know, those things, even at. Though in those formative years did absolutely shaped my thinking and more importantly, the career that I chose, not realizing it at the time.
- [10:42]
Interviewer
I know that those things can sometimes stick with a person for a long time. Do you still have moments where you kind of draw from those memories or they just kind of arrive? Because I know that for me, even the church things that you mentioned, if I start to hear a few bars of a piece that I remember as an acolyte, it's. It's in there. The whole. The whole thing comes back.
- [11:05]
Roger Alley
It does, you know, it. It's things like Amazing Grace every time I hear that and which, you know, whichever artist that they sing that, you know, Leonard Koran is one of those where, you know, you kind of hear that and it. It just brings, you know, chills to your body or. I mean, I was, I. I used to play the guitar when I was young. So anytime I hear. Hear things like any Christmas carols or songs like oh Come all the Faithful, it brings back those memories because it's, you know, it's one of those formative experiences where, you know, you go back but puts a smile on your face and it kind of pushes you to think about not just the moment you're in, but. But how special those moments were and how it shaped your life today. So that happens from time to time. I think with the busyness and just the multitude of priorities that I have. Sometimes I forget about that and it's nice to reflect on that. But I think the one thing that I held close is the importance of, you know, meditating and reflection. And I do that every day. It doesn't matter, you know, how busy I am. And I think that is a practice that came directly out of my upbringing and being in the church.
- [12:39]
Interviewer
So again, you went and had this visit to Hamilton. How, how much of a. It sounds like a place that felt like home or else you wouldn't have decided to move there. But is it as welcoming as it seems to us outsiders? It definitely seems like a place that is quite welcoming.
- [12:59]
Roger Alley
You know, I think it's in the eye of the beholder I think the. One of the reasons that I came to Hamilton was because my mom's cousin lived here at the time. And I think for me to get permission to leave the birth home, it was sort of. This would be kind of a place of safety and security and there would be adults who of course, would, you know, be able to kind of keep a close watch on me in the event that I just did to go rogue or do something crazy with my life, which. Which of course I didn't. But, you know, Hamilton at the time was very much, I would call a blue collar sort of industrial town. And it's. It's gone through many iterations, but for me, it was very, what I would say, multicultural, because that was sort of the term or the phrase that was used at the time. So it felt. It felt familiar. And I think. I think that was probably one of the things or the reasons that I was drawn here, because I could. I could see individuals who just by the way they spoke or the stores and shops that were around that it offered that sort of home experience. And I think. I think that was one of the reasons. I think the second as well is the university was really the draw at having. Having that, you know, place that I could go to and still have a second home with my relatives made it a good move versus, you know, picking whether another part of the country or I had been to the United States, but, you know, we. We didn't have family or, or anyone close that I could potentially go there. So I think for all of those reasons just seemed like a good fit, both from a family standpoint, but also from an academic as well.
- [15:08]
Jay Frost
Sure.
- [15:08]
Interviewer
So then it was off to the university. And how did you make your. Your choice about the school and course of study and so forth?
- [15:15]
Roger Alley
Yeah, you know, it's like with many kids, I. I had all of these different versions of what I wanted to do. I remember at one point, I think I might have been 13 or 14, and I remember getting a chemistry side and I wanted to. I think I said I wanted to be a pharmacist or a biochemist or something. And I have no idea why I said that or did that. But my choice of. My choice of study was geography, economic geography, human geography, and economics in general. And I think that that was due or led me to that path, that I wanted to be a planner and I wanted to kind of have a business context. And the social sciences faculty afforded me that experience. So, you know, that was. That was the. The path that I chose. But what I Didn't know was when I entered university and during my first week I saw this sign that says Alumni in Development. And I didn't actually quite know what that meant, but there was a posting that they were looking for students to help with their capital campaign. And I was like, of course the campaign word drew me in. I thought, oh, I can be part of a campaign, something big. Had no idea it meant fundraising. So I put an application in and I was interviewed and I guess I was a good talker then and I loved people and I still do. So I got selected and there I was calling alumni and sharing the plans, the vision for the university's expansion. And I did that for six months and I did very well and I sort of excelled and was one of the top student callers. And then I got an invitation to continue in their office to do research. And it was like research on private and public foundations. And again, it was a bit of an eye opener as a first year university student, just researching and not knowing exactly what this meant because it was being passed on to a development officer who I didn't quite understand what their role was. But here I was doing all of this research and I loved, and I still do love to research. So you know, that was kind of how I got into that part. So, you know, there were, there were two, two converging pieces that were coming together in, in that first year. Had no idea where it would take me and, and how it was so influential in the career that I chose.
- [18:06]
Interviewer
What, what year was this when you were doing all the research? Because research must have looked a little bit different.
- [18:11]
Roger Alley
Yeah, it was, it was 1998. 1998, 99. 1999. So it was, oh, most definitely. I mean, while there was a computer, because I remember using this clunky sort of desk computer, but there were lots of blue files that, you know, I was going through in a box and then I would go to the bookshelf and there were numerous, you know, like encyclopedia sized books that I would have to retrieve. And then I would meticulously review each name of the foundation and then collect the information. And I would be typing of, I would be photocopying pieces and you know, these like hundreds of files that I would be, you know, creating. So that is, that is the experience, the first entree into what we know as prospect research I was doing.
- [19:20]
Interviewer
And so you also saw both the value of something like that, which is pretty core to our profession now, but not always utilized fully. Do you see some differences between then and now in that respect about how people either value or embrace some kind of intelligence about the people who love the same things we do. And so that forms the basis of our outreach to them and getting to know them.
- [19:51]
Roger Alley
Yeah, I think you either love research or you hate research, but I think generally it, it gives you that baseline information and I feel it equips you. And it's, it's a, it's a conversation starter. And, and I always say to my team, even when I was in the role of CEO, I held C suite roles. I always said to the teams, you know, before I go on a donor visit or I'm going to see a volunteer, I always, as a rule, either go into the donor database and review their profile or there's something that I, you know, with, with the intranet or even just whatever technology we have, like LinkedIn. Other ways I do that quick review and essentially I, you know, they're teachable moments where I'm saying, you know, you go in knowing the little things that help you to build the relationship because fundraising is about friend raising. And when you think of how you can build close relationships, you want to know something about the individuals, whether, whether it's about themselves or their family or where they work. And I think that is the benefit of, you know, the research. When you think of all of the things, of course, about their capacity and their interest and all those things are important as well, but knowing who the individual is is even more important at the end of the day.
- [21:32]
Interviewer
Right. And I know that with research now that we both have this incredible breadth of information available to us, but it can sometimes just be really wrong. For example, West Indies are an entirely different place in the world from Nicaragua. So these things happen. But I want to take you back a step because you said that you were. He sounds like a phenomenal student caller. That is not necessarily something that everybody falls into easily. So what about that was so appealing to you then? Because it probably also appeals to you now. The ability to get on the phone and talk to a stranger and then welcome them into this idea about supporting a campaign. What was, what was exciting about that for you? What, what really clicked?
- [22:18]
Roger Alley
You know, I didn't realize at the time because I, it, it felt, it felt right because one, I was looking for a part time job that had some flexibility and would, would, would, you know, pay the bills. But what I was attracted to was the, the contact, the people contact I could have and I was eager to learn. So I think for me, what I was attracted to the most is the different experiences of alumni and what they were willing to share with me because I learned a host of things, not only about the university, but people open up because you say you're a student and you're calling to ask for support. But I would ask these engaging questions, and it was like a tap. And people shared their experiences. Some were good, some were not good, but that's what I loved the most, because I learned so much. But there's that joy of connecting with individuals because it feeds your soul. And I think you have to be, you have to be a people person to enjoy that. And I loved, I loved that part of it, and I still do all the, all the parts, the arts and science of fundraising and relationship building. The arts part is one that it gives you, that it keeps you going. It's that high you get because there's such rich conversations and stories that people share with you.
- [24:01]
Interviewer
And that was just the beginning of this journey. So you started early. A lot of people talk about falling into whatever the career started, certainly true for fundraising. But you were starting from when Was this your freshman or sophomore year?
- [24:14]
Roger Alley
Yeah, I was, I think I had just turned 18, probably. And yeah, you absolutely right, Jay. I, I, I never had any other jobs, even though I intended to be an urban planner and, you know, pursue a career that was more in economics or an economist. But I fell into this by accident, and I loved it so much that it kind of led to that first job at United Way. And many people talk about United Way as being a training ground. And I believe that the experience at the university gave me that stepping stone to be a development officer at United Way. And then from there, throughout two and a half decades, were progressive leadership roles in the philanthropy sector and in truly fundraising. And I think that's unique because, as you said, some people switch careers, others sort of work through later in their careers, but I've never had any other roles other than in philanthropy and in really bringing mission life through fundraising.
- [25:34]
Interviewer
And the other thing about that is that often people will. There are two schools of action, I guess, more than thought in this one is that some people stay in positions for a long time, and other people just seem to hop from place to place to place. And there's a lot of debate in the field about this. But you stuck with some of these things for a bit, and obviously with.
- [25:57]
Jay Frost
The profession as a whole.
- [26:00]
Interviewer
What was it that kind of commanded your attention, but also gave you an opportunity to grow into these leadership roles?
- [26:08]
Roger Alley
I attribute it to two things. I was connected to the mission of the organization I could feel and breathe the mission on a daily basis. I think that kept me in some of my roles longer. The second is the mentors and the supervisors that I had because, you know, at the end of the day, you often hear that fundraisers stay for maybe 18 months. And it's a bit of a revolving door. And some of those factors are due to the workplace culture and the lack of support and the pressure to raise funds quickly even though the infrastructure isn't there or the donor base isn't fully cultivated. And boards. They view fundraisers as, you know, just individuals to produce. But. But I have stayed. On average, you know, some places it's six years. But the longest I stayed was Hamilton Health Sciences foundation, where I was the VP of development. And I had a major responsibility in fundraising for major and capital campaigns. There were five. That was almost back to back, and it was because I loved the mission of the organization. There was never a day that I did not want to go to work. I truly love that role. And the other part is that the president CEO, who I reported to, was a great leader and a mentor, and she provided opportunities for me to grow and thrive and shine. And, you know, that is the recipe for success. When you think of. Of what attributes great leaders must have, I think. I think that's part of the secret sauce. Otherwise, I would not have stayed. There was no doubt about that. And I feel fortunate that, you know, in the second half of my career, which is like almost 15 years, I worked for two organizations, both in healthcare philanthropy, complex organization, multisite hospitals, major budgets. And, you know, it. It drew me in, and it drew me in further in a way in which I felt that I was contributing, but more importantly, I was growing. I was growing personally and I was growing professionally.
- [28:37]
Interviewer
And you're talking about two things now that are huge conversation pieces again, within the entirety of philanthropy and nonprofit sector as a whole, and one is about culture, as you just talked about. I mean, I guess we should accept that if we agree with the mission, that that's one thing that keeps us there. But if the culture is difficult or if the leadership doesn't provide those opportunities to grow and shine, as you were describing, it might be difficult no matter how much you believe in the mission. So what has been since. It sounds like you've had some very rewarding positions, both personally and also for the communities you were serving. What has been the hardest part in that journey, especially in healthcare, where the.
- [29:21]
Jay Frost
Margins tend to be so narrow?
- [29:25]
Roger Alley
Yeah, I mean, the hardest part, I think, is just the Pressure to produce and produce results quickly. And the challenging part on top of that is where you work with individuals. So you have individuals that are not necessarily fully aligned with the mission or, you know, it's seen as a job. And I think that's challenging in particular, where you have. You have great team members, but they're not on the same page as you. So I think the expectations or a level of accountability and individuals who may not have the core competencies or the interest and desire to make a difference as you have, I think that certainly is a challenging aspect when you think about that. And I know for me personally, I've had those challenging experiences. And you really have to think about how you kind of make magic and how you bring others to the table or how you engage differently. Because I think that's also a part where I realized, I think really early in my career, you can't do it alone. So how do you work with individuals who may not have the same drive or interest as you, but they have something to contribute? I think that's certainly been a big learning, and some of the mentors along the way have helped me, and I think that has certainly led to some really great team success.
- [31:12]
Interviewer
That idea about making magic, we need an instruction manual for that. If you were writing one about how to make magic in these offices, what are those chief ingredients in that recipe?
- [31:25]
Roger Alley
Oh, gosh. You know, I certainly think you. You have to build a team culture, one in which everyone has a voice. And, you know, I haven't always had that experience where had a voice. And part of it, too, is, you know, as. As a racialized brown individual, sometimes in colonial structures, your voice isn't heard. So I think that's important in terms of how you build a culture where every voice is heard. I think the second aspect is there's the fun in fundraising, and it's important that leaders pay attention to that and find ways that team members and your staff engage. And you pause, you pause. You work hard, but, you know, you. You play hard as well. And I think that is an important ingredient. I think a culture of support. So, you know, having. Having the appropriate infrastructures and the. The pieces, whether it's a donor database or the technology to enable successful fundraising, sometimes it. It. Not. Not that it. Only it.
- [32:43]
I don't.
- [32:44]
I wouldn't say it gets forgotten, but it isn't prioritized with shrinking budgets. And I think that's an important piece to create a culture where you have the tools you need to be successful. So, you know, those are kind of three things that are top of mind for me when I think of, you know, culture and how you build that culture. And I think a culture of success is one where you give individuals permission to make mistakes. So, you know, you can't have a culture where you're constantly making mistakes and making the same mistake. Because I think that requires a sit down and to say, you know, what's happening. But I think it's perfectly fine to give individuals the opportunity to test or try things or to be able to fall and learn from that. And I think that is important because you grow from your mistakes and you become better. And I didn't fully understand or learn that, you know, in, in the first maybe five plus years when I was new to fundraising. But as I took leadership roles on and I was mentored, I understood the value and the importance of having people and having team members run with something and doing it in a different way. They may not follow the A to Z the way I did, but I came to appreciate that important lesson over time.
- [34:24]
Interviewer
You were talking in that first element about everyone needing a voice and fun and culture support, all of which are so important and many of which I know that you are pursuing not just personally and professionally, but through the halls of AFP now in your current role. But that first one may be the most challenging. Right. Because of what you just talked about, the kind of the racialized and colonial or post colonial aspect of the waters we swim in, wherever those waters happen to be. So you are currently in Canada, I am in the United States. AFP is a global concern. We had the majority of us, I think numerically, in Canada and the U.S. but there are members all over the world. Right. So when you're tackling this issue about trying to make sure that everybody has a voice or addressing this, I should say not tackling it. I'd love to hear more about your thoughts on how you have ensured that the people that you work with have a voice, not only yourself, but especially in Canada, where you are presiding over the major chapter there and then now in your role at afp. Especially because we are right now at a time when at least the US Government has taken steps to try and restrict the use of certain language concerning diversity, equity and inclusion. And AFP has a strong commitment to idea. Now, there are some people who are listening to this who don't know anything about AFP or these acronyms. So I'm going to ask you to do a lot in a short span of time, but can you talk a little bit about your Thoughts and feelings on this, both from a personal perspective and professional one, especially as they relate to afp. How can we tackle this unique moment in time so people have a voice?
- [36:21]
Roger Alley
Yeah, it is. It's a complex issue and we can talk hours about it. But what I will say is that AFP has a role and is committed to inclusion, diversity, equity and access idea. And for me personally, it is part of my commitment as the AFP Global Board Chair to create spaces where people feel like they belong. And I have not always felt that I belong. Not just professionally at the C suite table or with a donor or a volunteer, but there are times within afp, you know, that I didn't feel like I belong. And I surfaced that I brought this to the forefront because I felt as. As chair in the two years that that I am in the role that I could make a difference. And the Global Board has also committed to doing the work on belonging. And that work is about looking within ourselves. And each board member had the opportunity, and we did that in the last. In the last year, to think about how we can create spaces that we belong as a board. And we created a board vision that we would, you know, be able to respect differences of opinion, to be able to unlearn behaviors that do not contribute to belonging, to be able to be aware and invite individuals when we see that they are standing on the sideline and they do not feel like they belong.
- [38:21]
So it is a journey that, you know, we have to stay on and not feel rushed or pressured. And as you said, we live in interesting times. But I feel comforted that the board, our Global Board, reaffirmed our commitment to idea. What that means is that we want to ensure that our actions. Because this is not something we are starting. We have been working on IDEA for a long time. It's probably close to a decade. And those who came before, for me, have done a lot of great work and have made personal sacrifices. But I think what we can do in this moment of time is to be brave and courageous and find ways that we include the idea, Inclusion, diversity, equity and access principles, even though we might be directed in a way that it. It should not show up on your website or be in your programs. But community and belonging go hand in hand. And if we truly are committed to creating spaces of belonging, then the onus is on us as an individual and collectively as the board as we work through how we make individuals, members, comfortable and feel like they belong. There's no one, I would say, recipe or prescription for success, because I know that we will have to take a tangential path. And there are times we will have to pause and think about that next step because there may be geopolitical pressures or there may be situations, for example, in Canada where the priorities around racial equity is different from the United States. It definitely is a complex issue as we think of how we can navigate through these choppy waters, as you say. But I'm very committed to that journey of belonging. I don't think I'd be able to solve everything in the time that I'm chair around belonging. But what I hope that I'm able to do is to be able to have the board as a shining example of what belonging is, and to be able to have chapters and members pause and reflect on the individual roles that we each play, to not only identify why we are creating spaces where people don't belong, but how we move the needle to create a community where everyone feels like they belong. That's a big task to undertake, but it is one that we can actually do because you will see a cultural shift over time if you have that sea change happening across the board. That's what I would say is a top priority amongst the other priorities as chair, and the board's priorities as well.
- [41:58]
Interviewer
Yeah, and it sounds like something that you've been thinking about personally and professionally through the halls of AFP and beyond for a long time. But it also sounds like there's a sensitivity on your part and of your colleagues to making this a process where there's continual learning not only for all the members, but all the leaders within the organization. Because everyone's experience is unique and different, not just on a country by country basis, but every member. That leads me to another question, which is organizations themselves, not the individual AFP members, but the organizations, nonprofits might be saying, we really need that kind of leadership to do what maybe National Council of Nonprofits and others have done, sometimes in the courts, sometimes through advocacy. And are they looking to afp, or do you think that AFP plays a role in advocating for the sector, not only its members, but the organizations, to say, this is why the sector is important, this is why the sector should remain free to express its views in its own way, in its own language?
- [43:11]
Roger Alley
Yeah, you know, absolutely. AFP plays a role in advocating for the importance of the sector, and AFP is also a partner in doing that, whether it's with the National Council of Nonprofits or other strategic partners globally. I was at a convention last week and global leaders were talking about the importance of defining a narrative on the importance of the role the sector plays and fundraisers play as well. So, you know, part of AFP's role is to educate and provide professional development and uphold ethical standards. But the role that we also play is to be that advocate and to be able to talk about the importance of. Of the sector and why we are such an important part the fabric of our society and what it means to have that strong nonprofit framework. So I think it's something that we do in terms of the advocacy work that we do, whether it's in the United States or in Canada. It also shows up in partnerships and discussions that we have with organizations that have shared missions like ours. So it happens there, and it also happens individually when we take a stand, and that may be my Voice or our CEO's voice, and in bringing that and putting that on the table and elevating the importance of the sector. So it happens in a variety of ways, but we are also very mindful of what members are asking us for, and that is about the support and strength of the sector and to be able to bring or be that voice. And that is something that we are continually working on and that we are listening, because I think that requires a level of adapting to the changes that you're seeing and your experiences and that you have to lean in and to be able to know when you know, whether it's time to partner with another organization and address the issue of relevance of the sector or the importance of, you know, operating grants, that if you didn't have that, how would you be able to stay open? Or the importance of facilitating a conversation about the role of fundraisers. And it's not just measured on quantitative or qualitative, but that glue that brings together mission and the donor desires to make a difference.
- [46:09]
Interviewer
Right. There's a lot in there. So for you, when you look ahead and you think about the role of advocacy in all this, maybe even your own personal role in advocacy, what does that look like? What do you imagine for how AFP and you can fight in its own responsible way for this sector, both in the US Obviously in Canada, but globally?
- [46:38]
Roger Alley
Yeah, it's an evolving discussion, both at AFP and even myself individually. It's one where we have a stronger voice and to be able to identify the opportunities where we can share the support and to be united. I think there isn't this defined plan that I can say, well, we'll do A, B, C and D. But what I can say is that it is something where we know that this is the opportunity for us to lean in and speak on behalf of the sector or to be able to ramp up our advocacy efforts, because it will change the minds of whether it's a senator or a governor or someone that we're speaking with who can actually help us to bring our voice through them. So, you know, there are a variety of ways that we can do that. And for myself personally, it is something where, you know, I can speak on behalf of AFP or personally about the importance of what we do and why we do it as a sector and on behalf of AFP in particular, because our members are really the fabric of what we do and why. Where. Why we exist. So I think those are maybe some just, I would say, reflections of what we would continue doing.
- [48:17]
Interviewer
And you talked about yourself at the beginning of this conversation today about kind of that being a global citizen in a sense, or feeling that way even from the earliest days. I know you have a passion for travel, maybe that comes from being an early traveler. But also even in this role, I mean, you're not just making sure to be a support and leader for people in these two countries, but for all these chapters and all these fundraisers all around the world. So talk about what it means to you to be a global citizen in those contexts today. What does it mean for you to be kind of the person who wants to get out there on the road and talk to people in different places and bring these people of very different experiences together?
- [49:03]
Roger Alley
Yeah, you know, it.
- [49:04]
It.
- [49:05]
It means bringing. Bringing, I would say, a connection for AFP to that chapter or to that group. And it's. It's taking the mission and sharing my personal experience so that the individuals that are listening can feel a connection with the work that they're doing locally, whether it's in Mexico or some parts of the US or wherever it is, in whichever province in Canada, that they see how they fit. And I think that's really the big piece. They fit in afp and they see that they're part of a. AFP is a community. So I think that's what I try to do through storytelling and through sharing our strategic priorities in our new strategic plan that was approved last year, because it is about elevating the member experience and creating alliances in a way that members feel connected. And I think the way you do that is by being real and sharing these experiences and stories so that what they're hearing brings to life what they've read or the experiences that they've had previously, and hopefully that those two come together, or there's a closer connection by what I'm sharing and the mere fact that they see that it isn't just something that they've read or received in the mail, but it is a human who is trying to bring that concept or some aspect of what I would call the AFP mission to life. And I think that's really what I intend to do. And it varies because of the country culture and the way you interact. It might be more for formal with a corporate group setting, but if you're around the table with chapter leaders who simply want to have a conversation about the challenges that they're facing on a daily basis and the level of fatigue and the stress that they're feeling. So it really is about active listening and to be able to provide that sense or that feeling of courage and determination and to encourage individuals to keep going forward, because, you know, we have to collectively do that. So I think that's a big part of, you know, what I am doing and what I hope to do.
- [52:02]
Interviewer
And how long is your term?
- [52:05]
Roger Alley
Yeah, not long enough. It's two years. And I started my term in January of 2025, so that the time is ticking. It's almost six months. So year and a half left, and.
- [52:23]
Interviewer
Then what's next for you? I mean, where does your roadshow go? You're a person who doesn't just let the moss grow. So where are you going to go next?
- [52:35]
Roger Alley
Yeah, I mean, as the immediate past chair, you have specific AFP roles. But I intend to collaboratively be able to continue this mission, this journey around belonging. So that will continue. You know, I'm engaged with other nonprofit organizations as well, so I hope that work will also be able to influence change. So that is kind of the immediate plans that I have for myself and who knows what else is in the future.
- [53:13]
Interviewer
But no major road trip is planned?
- [53:16]
Roger Alley
Not that I know of. No. It, you know, I think the Runway for doing that, you know, is between now and the end of next year. And it's just interesting how what you say, people truly listen. Because it was in Icon in Seattle that I said to attendees on the big stage that come up and say hello to me, and, you know, I want to visit your chapter. And I can't tell you how many people. I think there were over 100 people who came up and said, you know, I heard what you said, and I wanted to introduce myself. What I would love for you to come to my chapter. So I think those are opportunities to embrace in the next year and a half. And I'm very much open to doing a lot of that. And I think my interest post being the chair is to be able to lean in even more around global issues of health and climate change and to be able to lean into that a little bit more. So I I'm just sort of waiting for the time that I can just explore those opportunities further.
- [54:23]
Jay Frost
Well, that's it for this episode of the PM Podcast. You can learn more about the association of fundraising professionals@afpglobal.org our thanks to our sponsor, Donor Search, the world leader in AI powered fundraising intelligence solutions for the nonprofit world. Our producer is Jack Frank Frost and our theme music is Moving Out, Moving in by Jay Taylor and is provided courtesy of Epidemic Sound. If you like what you heard, make sure to subscribe wherever you'd like to listen. Check out our sister shows, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Raise, and come back next weekend for another conversation with a leader in the world of social good. Until then, this is Jay Frost. Thanks for joining me.