Summary of "Let's Talk About Love: A Conversation with Dr. Jen Shang" – The PM Podcast
Podcast Information:
- Title: The PM Podcast
- Host: Jay Frost
- Producer: Jack Frost
- Powered by: DonorSearch
- Episode: Let's Talk About Love: A Conversation with Dr. Jen Shang
- Release Date: May 23, 2025
Introduction
In this enlightening episode of The PM Podcast, host Jay Frost engages in a profound dialogue with Dr. Jen Shang, the world's only philanthropic psychologist and co-founder of the Institute for Sustainable Philanthropy. Dr. Shang delves into the intricate relationship between love and philanthropy, challenging conventional fundraising paradigms by introducing a nuanced vocabulary centered around love.
The Necessity of a Language of Love
Dr. Shang opens the conversation by highlighting the limitations of current fundraising language. She emphasizes that while terms like "satisfaction," "trust," and "commitment" are commonly used, they fail to encapsulate the essence of love, which she argues is fundamental to meaningful giving.
Dr. Jen Shang (00:00): "It's part of creating that space where, okay, we know there's a set of language about love now. We know there are different categories and different definitions."
Jay Frost introduces Dr. Shang's credentials, noting her groundbreaking work in philanthropic psychology and her award-winning book on how giving shapes the lives of high net worth donors.
Breaking the Taboo: Love in Professional Fundraising
The conversation pivots to the cultural and professional hesitance to discuss love within the realm of philanthropy. Dr. Shang explains that love is often sidelined because it's deemed "unprofessional" to intertwine such personal emotions with fundraising efforts.
Dr. Jen Shang (02:36): "It's like, yeah, we can talk about anything else, but just not talk about love."
She argues that excluding love from philanthropic discussions undermines the genuine connection required for substantive giving.
Dr. Jen Shang (03:20): "Isn't that the strangest thing? It's like, yeah, that is the thing, but, oh, let's not talk about it."
Defining Love: Beyond Romantic Connotations
Dr. Shang underscores the importance of distinguishing various types of love to foster a more inclusive and effective fundraising dialogue. She categorizes love into forms such as compassionate love, companionship, and passionate love, thereby removing the exclusive association of love with romantic contexts.
Dr. Jen Shang (03:44): "Let's start by defining it. And defining different types and differentiate them."
This redefinition aims to create a more precise and emotionally resonant language that can enhance donor engagement.
Cultural and Linguistic Barriers
The discussion broadens to address how cultural and linguistic differences impact the expression and understanding of love in philanthropy. Dr. Shang notes that while languages like English offer expansive vocabulary, they often fail to capture the depth and variety of love, leading to its oversimplification.
Dr. Jen Shang (04:38): "It's just like, if we all, as fundraising professionals, know or love is the thing you have to do love, but then, yet nobody's allowed to say the L word."
She advocates for the introduction and normalization of diverse love vocabularies to enrich philanthropic communications.
Emotional vs. Behavioral Approaches in Philanthropy
A significant portion of the conversation contrasts philanthropic psychology with behavioral science. Dr. Shang clarifies that while behavioral science focuses on actions and measurable outcomes, philanthropic psychology is rooted in emotions and feelings of love.
Dr. Jen Shang (13:44): "Love is a feeling. It's not a behavior. It's not only a behavior. It's not primarily a behavior."
This distinction emphasizes that genuine philanthropy should stem from heartfelt connections rather than solely strategic actions.
Practical Applications: Language of Love in Fundraising
Dr. Shang provides concrete examples of how incorporating the language of love can transform fundraising communications. She contrasts traditional donor letters focused on transactional outcomes with those that evoke sensory experiences and emotional connections.
Dr. Jen Shang (15:30): "But the love you give them, the love you give them taste like sweet mango and chicken soup. Does it feel the same?"
This approach aims to create a more profound and lasting impact on donors by appealing to their emotions and senses.
Challenges and Resistance
Discussing the resistance to integrating love into philanthropy, Dr. Shang acknowledges that many professionals are uncomfortable with this shift. However, she maintains that fostering this language is essential for meaningful and sustainable giving.
Dr. Jen Shang (10:22): "Uncomfortable. A lot of people are uncomfortable, but they don't want to say that they're uncomfortable."
She encourages creating spaces where the language of love is not only introduced but also embraced within philanthropic communities.
The Role of Love in Sustainable Philanthropy
Dr. Shang articulates her vision for a philanthropy driven by love, where generosity stems from a genuine desire to connect and care for others. She contrasts this with the often transactional nature of current fundraising practices.
Dr. Jen Shang (21:01): "If we truly believe that love is the thing that we're growing, we would never, ever use any method to stop people from not loving."
This philosophy underscores the importance of respecting individual choices in the expression and reception of love, fostering authentic and voluntary giving.
Personal Reflections and Impact
Towards the end of the episode, Dr. Shang shares personal anecdotes about how her commitment to love in philanthropy has shaped her life and work. She emphasizes the importance of raising children who value and practice love, highlighting the intergenerational impact of embracing this philosophy.
Dr. Jen Shang (27:18): "When was that moment for you? The moment I chose to study psychology, when my parents got divorced, I decided to care for myself."
Her reflections illustrate the transformative power of prioritizing love in both personal and professional spheres.
Future Endeavors and Concluding Thoughts
In closing, Dr. Shang reveals plans for a sequel to her acclaimed book, signaling the ongoing evolution of her work in philanthropic psychology. She reiterates her commitment to fostering a philanthropic community grounded in love and genuine connection.
Dr. Jen Shang (39:19): "There will be another book coming out."
Jay Frost wraps up the episode by directing listeners to additional resources and thanking Dr. Shang for her invaluable insights.
Key Takeaways
- Redefining Language: Introducing a diverse vocabulary around love can deepen donor relationships and enhance philanthropic outcomes.
- Emotional Foundation: Philanthropy rooted in genuine emotions fosters more meaningful and sustainable giving compared to purely transactional approaches.
- Cultural Sensitivity: Acknowledging and incorporating different cultural expressions of love can make fundraising efforts more inclusive and effective.
- Personal Commitment: Embracing love in philanthropy requires a personal and professional commitment to fostering authentic connections.
This episode serves as a compelling call to action for philanthropic professionals to re-examine and enrich their approach to fundraising by integrating the profound and multifaceted concept of love.