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The PM Podcast
Meet People Where They Are: A Conversation with Birgit Smith Burton, Founder of AADO and Immediate Past Chair of AFP
00:44:47
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A
My words of wisdom are to be open minded, don't judge. And I've learned how to not do that. You know, to meet people where they are, to be accepting, realize that everyone isn't gonna think like you, be like you, look like you, you know, and that's okay. That is absolutely, absolutely okay. Because if we all were alike, this would be a big, boring world. You know what I mean? So I've really learned to meet people where they are and just, you know, and be okay with that. It's okay, you know, and we don't have to all be alike and think alike.
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B
Welcome to the PM Podcast, brought to you by Ever True Studios, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy and civil society. On I'm your host, Jay Frost. My guest today is Birgit Smith Burton, fundraising leader, advocate, author and founder and CEO of the African American Development Officers Network. Birgit launched AADO at Georgia Institute of Technology in 1999 to create mentorship, professional development and networking opportunities for fundraisers of color.
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C
During her 26 year career at Georgia
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B
Tech, she helped lead efforts that secured more than $700 million in foundation support for scholarships, research and major initiatives. She also made history as the first African American woman elected chair of the Global Board of the association of Fundraising Professionals. Along the way, she has become one of the most respected voices in the profession on leadership, inclusion, mentorship and the future of fundraising. Recorded live in the Exchange At AFP Icon 2026, this conversation explores Birgit's journey, the evolution of AADO leadership in philanthropy, and what it takes to build a more inclusive and equitable future for our sector.
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C
Thank you very much for taking time to talk with us here on My Pleasure. It's been a long time coming, actually, because I know we tried to connect this for a while, but you've been very busy, very busy. Especially the last, what, three years? That's just a small part of the career you've had so far, but that includes serving as the Chair of afp. And we're here at the AFP Icon. Maybe I'll start by asking you what does it feel like to be the immediate past chair, not have that same responsibility? But you're in the middle of all this, still in the middle of discussions, many of which you brought to the fore.
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A
So I been asked that a lot, you know, wow. What does it feel like to be an icon and not have the responsibilities? Well, I'm still on the Global Board, so I'm the Immediate past chair. And the immediate past chair has responsibilities. I serve on the executive committee, so we address issues that the board trusts us to address, that we do on behalf of the board. But I also chair the nominating committee. So it is my responsibility to convene the members of the nominating committee to choose the new board members to fill those available slots, as well as the very important role of choosing the next chair elect. So I feel the pressure of that because that, I feel, is an important responsibility to select the person who will help guide the organization two years from now.
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C
There's been a lot of change in AFP over the years since I first went to conferences back when I was nsfre.
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A
Right.
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C
What are some of the biggest changes that you've seen, not just that you've shepherded, but you've experienced across that time?
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A
Well, the interesting thing and that I think you can see here at the conference in, you know, here in the hall with all of the, the vendors, is the change in how we approach fundraising. So there's a lot of technology focused, you know, companies. And so I've really seen that over. I've been a member of AFP for 35 years, so I was a member when it was the National Society of Fundraising Executives. And so I, we were laughing about. I remember, you know, when there were a lot of tchotchkes and, you know, ways to recognize donors and ribbons and plaques and, you know, and so I look around the room and I visit, you know, the vendors and there are just so many incredible products and platforms and, you know, all kinds of ways to really, you know, aid in fundraising. So that's one really big. And then people visit, you know, the, the booths to learn and see. I remember, you know, seeing people kind of, you know, sauntering by, oh, you know, almost like a used car salesman. I don't know. I don't want to hear it. So I like that. You know, it seems as far as afp, people really want to be engaged. They want to be a part of helping to make decisions. But during my time as the Global Board chair, when we were dealing with the issues of anti black racism in Toronto, know, coming out of that with a task force that I struck, the member Fair Behavior Policy Task Force was really important to give members a way to voice issues or concerns that they felt they might not be able to take up through their chapter leadership. So I wanted to have something that I could really feel like I contributed, you know, so that's an important thing. And as we've really dealt with idea, I chaired the Diversity committee when we changed it to idea. So we went from diversity and inclusion and included equity and access and got idea. And so then taking that and not having it be a standalone committee, but for us to really focus on or a standalone, you know, thing that we focused on, that we weaving it through everything that AFP does, you know what I mean? So there. There is an IDEA lens in everything, you know. So I think that's really important. We had a meeting, our board meeting the other day, and someone was giving the history of AFPs NSF focus on diversity issues. And, you know, I had done research on it a few years ago and noted that NSFRE was focused on what they called minority issues through the Minority task Force in 1984. And so we were starting this work, you know, a long time ago, longer than, you know, some folks kind of new to our work, really.
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C
And it seems like we had a different language, but also different sensibility and understanding.
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A
At that time, language diversity was not a popular word. We did not use diversity. Minority, you know, was the word of the day. So bringing in diversity at first was not really well received. You know, that was a word that folks kind of shied away from.
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C
Why do you think that that is? Or what was your sense of living through that?
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A
No, I've tried to understand that, you know, and I think sometimes those things are generational, you know, and they're associated with something that I might not be able to understand because that wasn't a part of my journey or experience. My parents lived through the civil rights movement. You know, they are Tuskegee graduates. And so what they experienced and didn't want me to have to experience, you know, it's a completely different thing. My dad took the colored section sign. I stole it off the bus. You know, he took it and then sat in. You know, the section wasn't supposed to sit in. My mother was dating him at the time. She was like, oh, Lord, we're going to jail. Like, she couldn't believe he did it. And both of my parents are deceased, but that sign is somewhere in the house. I have to find it. You know, he kept it. But since. So, you know, it's just like even, you know, transitioning from saying colored to Negro to black to African American, you know, and, you know, sort of what the impetus is behind the evolution, you know, of that. You know, how many times do we change things? The African American Development Officers Network, which I founded in 1999, you know, there have been some who have said, maybe, you should change the name so that it's the, you know, it's more people of color, you know, And I decided against it because I sort of feel that it's like the United Negro College Fund. I worked for UNCF in the late 80s, and they went through a whole process of deciding whether or not they were going to change the name. And they decided historically that's what the name is. That, you know, was something that UNCF kind of went through a process of deciding, are we going to change the name? And they decided to keep the name because that's historically what it is, even if the mission evolved. And so that's the way we feel about the African American development officers. We have more people, we have working with some of our Asian American friends in establishing an affinity group, you know, for them. So, you know, the name is not really the most important thing. Right. You know, we call McDonald's Mickey D's or Kentucky Fried Chicken KFC. You know what I mean?
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C
But we aren't necessarily as emotionally invested in those things. And I know sometimes it's generational, and you just mentioned your parents. And I know we really can't speak for our parents, especially when they're gone, but I wonder if some of those things that you had to think about, not just in your role as a chair, but just as a person in this field. Just as a person. We're also informed by that because that story about your father, it speaks volumes in just one short anecdote about the experience of many people. But when you had to go through each of these things, like being with UNCF and living through that or thinking about it with AADO and especially kind of guiding an organization like AFP that had had its own journey to make, did you have a struggle with not just the language, but a way to get other people kind of thinking together in some of the same ways and talking in a way that they understood one another.
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A
Sure. Because we have a habit of really only connecting with those things that impact us. Do you know what I mean? So I was speaking to an AFP chapter in Ohio once and there were 150, 60 people in the room. And so I said, raise your hand if you know how to access this building if you're in a wheelchair or on crutches. And two people raised their hands and I said, how is it that you. You happen to know how to get into the. This building if you're in a wheelchair or on crutches and can't climb the stairs? And the one girl Said because I have babies, two of them under the age of three, and they're in a stroller and I always have to look for the way to get in with the stroller. And then the other girl said, I wear stilettos all the time, so I try to avoid the stairs and I'm looking for the elevator or the ramp. But nobody said, because I care that somebody who might want to be a participate in this meeting or this event can't get in here. You know, it. That wasn't the top thing. No. The other thing is I served with a board member of AFP Global who after two years of serving with him, we were in a board meeting in a room and somebody said, as people usually do, I don't need the mic. I have a loud voice. I've never been accused of being quiet. And he raised his hand, he said, listen, I have hearing loss and I can't hear half the time when you all are talking and not using the microphone. And so I just suffer in silence. And we never realized that. We didn't know because we were like, nobody needs the microphones. We're in this room, we should be able to hear. And he said, I can't. And so my point is that, you know, even when we're talking about the experiences of people who identify maybe a little differently than others, we don't really know what they experience because it's not our experience. You know what I mean? And so that doesn't become like, you know, in the forefront of our mind of what we need to do to ensure that whatever we were doing, we are doing is welcoming or makes them feel like they belong.
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C
When did you develop an awareness of the importance of that kind of thing yourself in your own life? I mean, where'd you grow up, for example?
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A
So I grew up, my dad was an officer in the Air Force. And so the first 10 years of my life we were in the Air Force.
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C
Oh, were you in Germany? Is that.
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A
I was born in Germany.
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C
Your name? Yes.
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A
Yeah. And so I didn't really. My dad was a high ranking officer and so I was just really annoyed because everybody was saluting him all the time. I really was, you know what I mean? I was just really annoyed by that, you know. And so, you know, growing up in the Air Force, our home, we had one of the better homes, top of the hill. I remember somebody says, where all the colonels, you know, we got out when he retired When I was 10, 11 years old, we moved to Buffalo. Suburb of Buffalo, New York. He was a Civil engineer for the state of New York in bringing the University of Buffalo campus from the city to the suburbs. And I went to a high school and was heavily Jewish. There were maybe five black kids in the whole school. And that was my first experience with racism. Guys used to sit in the back of the classroom and blow spitballs through the straw into my hair and an afro, you know, And I come home and pick spitballs out of my hair. And then I experienced people saying, I like you, you're black, but you're not like most black people, you know, their perception. So this was like my first, first, you know, time and awareness. And then the biggest thing, Jay, was that my 18th birthday party, my parents gave me a big party at the top of the MT building, the bank MNT bank building in downtown Buffalo. And I had friends, mostly white, that I went to school with. And then I had friends I went to church with down in the inner city, because we went to our church that we went to was in the city. And so I realized I was going to be inviting white kids that didn't interact with black kids and black kids that didn't interact with white kids. And I was terrified of what that party was going to look like. And I invited them and they sat on two sides of the room. And then I started playing that. We had a DJ who started playing music that everybody was familiar with. Everybody got up and started dancing. And that was my first experience of seeing people really come together and enjoy and realize, hey, you're not so bad because you're black. Hey, you're not so bad because you're white. And that kind of set in motion, like in me, what I wanted to do, do and contribute in the world in helping to bring people together and recognizing, you know, how we identify and how we show up in the world.
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C
That's a pretty powerful thing for anybody, but especially an 18 year old, because I'm sure you were just kind of coming into your own if you're like most 18 year olds. So you're thinking about that through the lens of that's your birthday. It must be pretty profound.
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A
It was. So I said I was born in Germany, but I was adopted. So my birth mother is German.
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C
Okay.
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A
My birth father was black. I look and identify as black. My adoptive parents were black, and I was 10, 11 years old is when it really dawned on me that I was biracial. You know, when I really thought about it, I mean, I knew my parents never. I was adopted at two and a half years old. My birth mother kept Me until I was almost three. And so I had this experience of, wait a minute, I'm not any more black than I am white, even though I look black, you know? So I went through this rebellious period where I wasn't quite sure who I was, you know, and how I wanted to identify. Did I want to not like white people, you know, or did I want to feel black people were my people? You know what I mean? Like, so that really impacted me, too, and I kind of got through that period, you know, and so it's all kind of informed who I am and, you know, how I show up. So when I got the job at Georgia Institute of Technology and I started working at Georgia Tech, and I walked into my first full development staff meeting and looked around the room and then found out that there were no other frontline fundraisers who were black. I was the first and only one. And then that's when I decided to establish the African American Development Officers Network.
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C
And when was this that you.
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A
1999.
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C
AADL?
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A
Yeah.
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C
Okay. Wow. First of all, I should say congratulations. Not just on founding it, which was important, but it's still here. It's still here under the same name. We were talking about names before and the importance of calling things by the names that you. You own. But I'm also imagining that. Not imagining. I know that during that time, a lot has changed.
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A
Oh, yeah.
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C
For a lot of us, the way we see ourselves in the world, even if others see us differently. So what was that like for you from the first meeting where there are no other black fundraisers to the world of today? And I have to say, also, every time I do this stuff, I realize most people might be listening. They're not seeing. So all these things you're explaining are very helpful. But I'm also aware that there are people who are born out after 2000 who are listening to this and wondering what the heck they're talking about. Or they say, yes, I know, because this world is so complicated. But one thing they should know is that Georgia is a pretty diverse place. Right. There are a lot of black folks in Georgia, obviously, particularly in the city of Atlanta. Yes, exactly. And so it might be a surprise, or not, depending on how will people know Atlanta and these universities that you felt, you know, that you were one of a kind in that particular meeting. So what was going on there, exactly? And how has that changed, if at all?
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A
Yeah, well, so what happened prior to me getting the job at Georgia Tech was that I worked for uncf. I was hired as a novice Fundraiser. They were teaching, you know, African American young professionals with a college degree, fundraising. And So I spent 11 years working for UNCF. So it was an organization that raised money and supported historically black colleges and universities. And so, you know, the majority, more than the majority, almost everybody on staff were black. And then the schools we supported, you know, were black. So that was my experience and my entree into fundraising. So when I came to Georgia Tech and, you know, you've now got the opposite. Everybody in the room's white that's raising money. And it's not for an hbcu, you know, it's for research and programs. And, you know, the school was diverse, but it wasn't the student body.
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C
Yeah.
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You know, a black serving organization. And so, you know, being the first and only was difficult and exhausting. My role in foundation relations, the foundations that I engaged with, I really didn't deal with racism per se, because the foundations really didn't treat me like that. It wasn't like working with individual donors who were like, whoa, you come in the door, they're like, I didn't expect you to be black. You know.
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Right.
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But at times, I experienced that from the faculty and the leadership. You know, I just felt like I was not included sometimes because I was a woman, because I was a black woman. University of predominantly white men.
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C
Right. And that's another part we haven't really been talking about, but that's embedded in all this, about the role of women in this field and how much has changed there. I mean, women in leadership roles, but not necessarily always the CEOs, right. That's still a mountain we're climbing. Wow. So there's so much in this. And when you think about it, it's not really that long of a time. I know that you have a lot of. A lot of time and invest in this field, and you've done a lot of things, but it is over a relatively short period of time that there's been so much. So much change. But there's so much change left, or at least I don't want to put words in your mouth. It seems like there's a lot of change that's left to go. Is that fair?
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A
I would say that's fair. It changes. So what I've experienced is, you know, a period where it was like more people and funders and people I work with and engage with were a lot more willing and interested in supporting professionals of color organizations that are, you know, black led, black serving, you know, and I'm thinking it through the. Of it through the AADO lens, right? And so I remember, you know, right after George Floyd and during the pandemic, you know, I remember one foundation that I used to get money from for Georgia Tech and would take like six months to go through the grant process, was so eager to support, you know, black led black serving organizations right after, you know, to show. To demonstrate that they cared and they were concerned. I remember an organization that I served on the board of that, you know, focused on those who were food insecure, you know, homeless for the most part. Turned a grand around in three days. You know, same one that took six months. I was like, wait, what, three days? They, because they wrote, you know, then, you know, fast forward three or four years and now it's. They don't want to touch us. The same, you know what I mean? It's, it's changed. And, you know, I don't want to get into, you know, a political discussion, but it's almost like it's not as cool anymore, you know, or not. Excuse me. I don't even want to say cool. That's not right. It's like we don't have to. So if you're really not committed, if you weren't committed, if you were doing it for not really the right reasons, you know, then you don't have that motivation, you know, any longer. The guilt is no longer there.
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C
And that's an even shorter amount of time to see that kind of unwinding.
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A
Yeah. When was the pandemic? 2020. You know, George Floyd, here we are in 2026. We had a conference sponsor for AADO. Give us, I don't know, I want to say 6500 as a sponsorship and then contact us and said, we're not going to make you give the money back, but you can't advertise us. You know, it's state, you know, regulations and some issues. We can't give this money, you know, to you as a sponsorship and can't be visible doing it. So they let us keep the money, but we couldn't acknowledge them or advertise it.
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C
I wonder if you, what you, when you look forward, if you imagine that that will kind of change again.
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A
It probably will. I feel like for every step we take forward, we take a few backwards. But we still, you know, are. Are progressing. And then sometimes, you know, it's like actually we don't, we don't want or need that money. Do you know what I mean? So we'd rather have those who really believe in the mission, they're not Just trying to check off a box and, you know, be correct in supporting us. You really believe in what we're doing and you really want to have an impact. And so your money means more. You know, we don't want to just take it.
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C
It's not really just about the money, is it? I mean, it's. I guess that's true of all fundraising. It's certainly true of the work you've done, both within afp, but also especially aado, because that must be a mission that's a lot more than just training fundraisers.
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A
Oh, most definitely.
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C
So what is it about? What's the impetus for you? And tell us about where it is today, because it's grown quite a bit.
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A
Yeah. So, you know, I was listening to, you know, Voule.
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C
Yes, of course.
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A
So he was speaking in Atlanta three, four weeks ago.
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C
Yeah.
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A
And he said, because I want to credit this to him, he was talking about, you know, the disconnect between grant makers, you know, and donors and non profits. And, you know, he was saying that the, the grant makers are the water and the nonprofit is the. The building on fire. Right. And the grant maker wants to put the water on the fire, but they don't want the hose. You know, they're like, we don't want the hose. We don't want to fund the hose. We just want to get the water on the building. You know what I mean? It's like you need. How you really get the water to the building. So it really is a mission of mine to get those that think that supporting fundraising, you know, the fundraising infrastructure, the fundraisers, is not sexy. It's not what we want to do. We want to put the money on the programs right. Where the need is to understand really what the development operation is and that you don't. These organizations are successful without that. You know, you can be a foundation and say, we're going to give you a half million dollars, and to get this money, you have to match it with a half million. Who's going to do the fundraising? You know what I mean? So that is a mission to help these funders understand exactly how the fundraising operation is critical to the viability and success of the organization. So that's a mission of mine. And then to give these fundraisers the tools that they need. So when we've been doing the AADL conferences, partnership with Case for 12 years, and then on our own for the last few years, we polled our members and said, you know, what are the top two most important things about the AADO conference for you the number one was the networking, just to be in space and community with other fundraisers who look like them.
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C
Do you mind telling us something simple, which is, why is that important? There are going to be some people who just don't get it unless they hear it.
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A
Yeah. Because when you are. When you are in a space where you are by yourself, I don't care if you're a woman in a group of men. I don't care if you're a tall person in a room with people who are very short. You know what I mean? There's a sense of community. When you're in a room with people who can identify with you, you don't have to explain it to them. And so I know for me, it was important to feel that, especially when I was, like, going to a conference, because if I walk into a room as a black person in a room with, you know, people who aren't black, I feel like I stand out. I feel like all the heads turn and the first thing they see is that I'm a black person. So to walk into a room where that isn't the first thing that becomes, you know, how I'm identified, then that takes that off the. The table. That's not an issue, you know, and it doesn't become the thing that makes us different. And so, you know, people who have felt alone as a fundraiser in some city, in some organization, because of the color of their skin, now has this community. And they get past this. Let's. Let's talk about. They get past that. Let's talk about best practices, businesses. Let's talk about, you know, we can go to the nitty gritty of fundraising. And so that's why it's important just to be, you know, in community with people. I am a big Buffalo Bills fan. Like, huge die hard, all my life, since I was a child, Bills fan. I can walk into a room with people with a bunch of Patriots uniforms on and just feel like I'm in enemy territory. Right. But I walk into a room with Bill's fans, and we're like, go, Bills. You know, and, like, I feel my community, and I feel like we're all on one page, and it makes me feel good. And I can feel excited and energized. And so that's all we're talking, you know, about. Just to be able to have that feeling. It doesn't mean that that's the way it has to be every day, all day long, everywhere you go. But when you're trying to learn and when you're trying to, you know, get the skills that you need to be a good fundraiser. It just helps when that's not an issue.
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C
And is there a value beyond the fundraising world? I mean, our organizations can't exist without money, so let's just say that. But I imagine that the relationships that you build and the context you have with people, with people on the program side, with government, with the public, all of those interactions are broader kind of impact even than those interactions we have that generate the revenue. So when you think about all the things you've been discussing and sharing, what is the broader impact on society potentially of making sure that everybody feels like, I don't know, that they're not sticking out in a room full of people who are different, whoever they are?
- [34:06]
A
Well, I mean, just the sense of belonging, you know, when you don't feel like you belong, you feel the disconnect. You don't feel like you're a part of anything that's happening or going on. And that's whatever it is that makes you not feel, you know, like you're a part of that community. And it could be because it doesn't have to be the color of your skin, you know. You know, I've, I've, for most of my adult life been a plus size woman. And I have interviewed for jobs where I was discriminated against because I'm plus size, you know, and I knew immediately when I got the, you know, the once over, you know, look up and down, you know, that I was being judged, you know, and so that I think, you know, when we can all feel the comfort of feeling like we belong in the environment that we're in and that our thoughts and opinions and how we identify, you know, matter without it having to be judged or criticized. But listen, this is how you identify. This is how you show up. Here's how you can be a good fundraiser, do you know what I mean? And everything else not be the thing that is distracting. So I had somebody apply for a job at Georgia Tech and she was overlooked for two positions. And she said to me, I'll never forget, I can show up in a Chanel suit, I can soften my hair, I can wear pearl earrings, but I'm still a dark skinned woman, you know what I mean? And that's what you see. And the two people she lost or didn't get chosen over were two white guys. And so I took the hiring manager to lunch and I said, said, listen, Phil, tell me why you're not choosing her. Be honest. This is you and Me. And he said, because if I hire someone black and they're not successful, it'll be difficult for me to hire another black person. And that's what he said to me. You know what I mean? And I appreciated his honesty, but I was so disappointed that that's how he felt, and that was, you know, informing his decision, you know, on hiring. So when we can get past that and we can accept people for who they are, and, you know, you're a good fundraiser and you know how to interact with, you know, donors or work with foundations, at the end of the day, we all succeed because the organizations that we're supporting that meets the needs of the communities succeed.
- [37:17]
C
You know, this field of fundraising means a lot to you, beyond all these other issues, which are, you know, so foundational to the way people interact with one another or interact poorly with one another. Why fundraising for you? I mean, there are a million things that you could do. You've chosen this and you stuck with it, and you built things around it for other people. Why fundraising?
- [37:40]
A
It was not my choice. You know, that's a part of my story. It was not my choice. I studied classical voice for eight years. Piano is going into musical theater, headed to Broadway. I stumbled into a fundraising career in an internship that I did when I changed my career to broadcast journalism. And I changed my career because my advisor at the university I attended, where I was one of 15 chosen out of over 800 that auditioned for their musical theater program, told me I should leave because my career was going to be too difficult as a black woman. So I left and I decided to major in broadcast journalism and doing an internship. I ended up helping with celebrity golf tournament. And I found it interesting and. And realized that I thought I could be a fundraiser. And so UNCF trained me and the rest is history.
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C
But the musical part of you is something that never leaves.
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A
Oh, it hasn't left? No.
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C
Are you singing still?
- [38:52]
A
I've decided to go back into studying voice and maybe consider picking up my theatrical interests.
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C
Oh, that's wonderful. Is there, like, when you think about the piece of music that comes to mind maybe for those auditions that you did, what's the first piece that comes to mind? Who are you and music?
- [39:13]
A
I was in the Buffalo Philharmonics version of Porgy and Bass, and I auditioned to get in the. It was a choir, and they brought the actors and actresses from Broadway to do the performance. And so I auditioned singing Summertime, and I was 16 and I didn't get the part. But when we were leaving the performance it was a three, four day performance. When we were leaving the performance, the director, who was from New York, Leonard Dupar, saw me and told my parents how phenomenal I was. And that made meant a lot to me because he didn't bat an eye in the audition. He was very stoic, you know, he's like. I was like, oh my gosh, I was horrible, you know, so for him to tell them, that was amazing.
- [40:11]
C
That's one of my very, very, very favorite shows. And it's very moving as a story about people kind of making their way through the world. It's more than just a lot of the things that people describe it as. Does that kind of music, not just the story, but that kind of music still move you in the same way?
- [40:32]
A
Oh, it does, yeah. But I mean, I love Broadway. I go to the shows, you know, not just musicals. I'm going in two weeks to see proof and. I forgot the other one is with Taraji P. Henson and Cedric the Entertainer. Joe Carter's come and gone. Yeah. So I go and see performances in New York and Atlanta. I enjoy theater a lot.
- [41:09]
C
Well, since you've spent a lot of your time in this field on a stage either, I guess, talking to donors, but also on the stages of places like afp, where so many of us have seen you, I guess it's not much to return to the stage that started this whole journey.
- [41:24]
A
No, not at all. And I don't think I'm too old to do that, so.
- [41:29]
C
Not at all.
- [41:30]
A
No. There's some parts for old ladies.
- [41:33]
C
Well, then they can save them for you for when you are one. So just since we're here and they're closing down the hall, any kind of thoughts for the people who might be hearing this later, who might be going through the journey, some of the journeys you've been describing, not just personally, but institutionally in this field where people have to make their way through changes in language and welcoming other people so that we can all feel like we belong. Are there any kind of words of wisdom for the people who listen to this later and have to think of those things?
- [42:08]
A
My words are wisdom. Words of wisdom are to be open minded, don't judge. And I've learned how to not do that, you know, to meet people where they are, to be accepting, realize that everyone isn't going to think like you, be like you, look like you, you know, and that's okay. That is absolutely, absolutely okay. Because if we all were alike, this would be a boring world. You know what I mean? So I've really learned to meet people where they are and just, you know, and be okay with that. It's okay, you know, and we don't have to all be alike and think alike. And so that's where I noticed that people really, you know, have difficulty because we judge a lot, you know, and we look at people, and if we don't like the way they look or the way they talk or the way they engage, we can be very judgmental about that. And I don't care if they're different because of how they identify or the color of their skin. You know, we can be very judgmental. And so just learning how to. And I'm, I'm helping people that I am friends with to do that. You know, they'll go, oh, my gosh, look at that person over there. And I'll go, don't do that. Do you know what I mean? It's. It's okay. Maybe they, they like dressing like that, and that's what, you know, gives them style. Look at all those tattoos on their neck. Oh, my God. You know, and just really learning how to. To shut that down with people, you know, and think, I bet you there's a real, really creative, unique person there that you could have a really cool conversation with.
- [43:55]
B
Well, that's it for this episode of the PM Podcast. You can learn more about Birgit Smith Burton and the work of the African American Development officers network@AADonetwork.com and about AFP@AFPGlobal.org our thanks to our sponsor, Evertrue, the global leader in donor engagement and fundraising intelligence, helping nonprofits find, engage, and inspire their supporters. Our producer is Jack Frost, and our theme music is Moving Out, Moving in by Jay Taylor, courtesy of Epidemic Sound. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to subscribe and check out our sister shows, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Raise, all part of the Philanthropy Mastermind series. Until next time, I'm Jay Frost. Thanks for joining me.