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- [00:00]
Bill Littlejohn
We did a survey of our donors this last year and two things came out of it. Tell me what you did with the money. Don't ask me again until you tell me what you did with the money. I already gave. Even an organization, they know who we are. Tell me what and then if you want me to give in the future, share your vision and why my gift will be important of achieving that vision, not just a need base. But why should I entrust you with my generosity? What's it really going to do in the future?
- [00:27]
Jay Frost
Welcome to the Philanthropy Masterminds podcast, brought to you by Donor Search, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost. Bill Littlejohn is a nationally recognized leader in healthcare philanthropy. As senior Vice President and CEO of the Foundations of Sharp Healthcare, he has driven initiatives raising more than $300 million and spearheaded Sharp's $2 billion Envision campaign to, to transform healthcare in San Diego. A former AHP chair and Tsai Seymour award recipient, Bill has advised healthcare systems worldwide and is widely celebrated for his visionary leadership and impact. In this wide ranging conversation, we explore his beginnings in the field, the work he and his colleagues have done over the years, the critical importance of continual innovation and his personal commitment to philanthropy.
- [01:23]
Bill Littlejohn
And I've been thinking about hosting a philanthropy summit at our place before I, and bring some of the thought leaders in and say, you know, do we all need another moonshot right where we collab. And I said, and I said, like I said, so look, make it agnostic, you know, the HP consultants come in, here are the big issues, spend a day, you know, the donor crisis, whatever. He's talking about talent and tenure, things like that, digital transformation, we're all going through it. We can't afford, we can't ignore that, you know, and traditions have to kind of change all of that. And then what could be some outcomes the next day or whatever and say, you know, could there be a collaboration where you and you and you guys. And then we'll. I said, look, if there was a big, huge initiative that lays out that we're going to train people, you know, we're going to move philanthropy up where, you know, if it was healthcare, even just in health care, we put in a million dollars in if it was going to improve us, you know, by, we're going to get another 2x increase, we paid for it and say, yeah, bring it on, you know, and that and, and that. And I said, I like it The Apollo mission, when Apollo came along, they couldn't have one company do the whole thing. It was way too big. So you look at all those consultants and everything, you know, it's like, partner up and it's like, you guys do this and, like. And now we're doing that in our tech roadmap that, you know, we're looking at applications and working with IT and donor portal. So a different giving platform. We use Razor's Edge then giving platform and email and this and that and, you know, all of those things. And so that's what healthcare systems do. So anyway, it's just fun to think about that and whether that would be a, you know, you know, whether it's just pie in the sky and, you know, nobody will. But I even said that to Alice Ayers. I said, if you came up with a really great strategic plan, you should bring the, you know, 50 or 60 thought leaders together to Chicago and get them to buy it, you know, and, you know, and saying, you know, we're paying $22,000 a year for Prime HP, which is okay, but then we have to pay to go to the conference, too. That's why we have so many people that don't always travel. But, like, are we getting 30 or $40,000 worth of benefit out of that membership? I'm like, it's hard to. At the same time, we put a million dollars in at the start of our campaign, on video, on our website, on marketing, and on a big kickoff event. And we've done great. We've raised 170 million of the $250 million in the first four years. And we really realized that was a great investment to make. It was like, that's a lot of money. I'm like, oh, you can't spend that money on advertising. I said, well, we branded the campaign and it made a huge difference, so it's the same thing. And so anyway, it's just fun to think about all that kind of stuff.
- [04:04]
Alice Ayers
It sounds like you've got as much energy for this now as you did when I first met you, which was a while ago now, and that you've had for this throughout your tenure at Sharp. But you're talking about succession and you're talking about retirement. What's. What's the genesis of that one was.
- [04:25]
Bill Littlejohn
You know, I'm not getting any younger, you know, and I've been at Sharp. It's a couple of things. Is that including my consulting time, it's been like 27 years at Sharp. So I've also now gone through several, a couple of executive level retirements and transitions. So, you know, the people that I started with have moved on and now there's another kind of realm. And in fact that the board went to the senior team and said, we want you to have secession plans, whatever it is. And so at the time, that was three years ago and you know, I'm like, okay, I'll put down five years. And that because I really targeted out that my daughter would graduate from college, sort of, you know, the kids would be done with financing all the education and they would be sort of on their own and that, and that I would have put in the better part of 30 years at Sharp between consulting and full time and have, you know, I think achieve what I would think would be the legacy that I would like and would hand off a program in pretty good shape. And then, then I, the idea and go back and do some consulting too for a few years because I, I really enjoy that. I still kind of do that today in board retreats and all the conferences, you know, caring and sharing. And so, so it was kind of, that was. And I, you know, and I thought about my age group, you know, I, I turned 65 last year. So, you know, Medicare comes along and Social Security and all of that. I'm like, you know, I think it was. And also then also to make sure I could, we could have a good succession plan that get the right people to take over and, and lead it for the next generation. So it's been a multi year consideration of that. But I knew, you know, probably 10 years ago at least that I would finish my career Sharp. So it was just, you know, and it's not one of those things that, okay, you know, okay, I'll give you, you know, three months or something. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and retire. It's like, no, I want to make sure there's a pretty long, you know, road map for people to support the board and the leadership.
- [06:28]
Alice Ayers
I've already started recording and that's, that's great because you just shared a lot.
- [06:32]
Bill Littlejohn
And I can, you can cut whatever you want.
- [06:34]
Alice Ayers
Yeah, sure. I, often with the podcast, I ask people about, you know, the whole arc of their career in their life, regardless of where they are in it. So I didn't mean to start with retirement, so I'm glad you approached that because we can, we can then go backwards and then return to it. But I do want to ask you before I begin with the other questions, if there's anything you would like to avoid or don't want to talk.
- [06:56]
Bill Littlejohn
No. Really? No, I just want to. Yeah, no, no. Good.
- [07:02]
Alice Ayers
Especially since, you know, we met personally through the work at Santa Fe Christian.
- [07:08]
Bill Littlejohn
That's right.
- [07:09]
Alice Ayers
Which was totally different way to get to know you and your work.
- [07:11]
Bill Littlejohn
Right. That's a volunteer or board chair, board member. And. And on the other side, making decisions about, you know, professionals to engage to help the institution.
- [07:21]
Alice Ayers
Right.
- [07:22]
Bill Littlejohn
In its next steps, in its future.
- [07:23]
Alice Ayers
And that's where your kids were.
- [07:25]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah, that's where they're now. And they're done. And so they were two lifers. We spent 16 years there. And that. And I give them huge credit for where they. Where they've gone in college and career wise, is that it was one of the best decisions we made was to have them the opportunity to attend Santa Fe Christian and have what was poured into them at that time and was worth the investment we made, both through tuition, but also philanthropy. We supported. I was on the development committee on the board, you know, and then worked with you to, you know, sort of help do the planning for the big initiative, which they've moved forward on the first phase. The building is done. They raised a pretty good chunk of money. Then they've got more to do. But that plan helped in terms of their future. And now I see it from afar. I mean, and their kids aren't there, but I get the reports and I talk to people that still have kids there. So that's another great legacy piece is I was part of the institution in both a volunteer and service role at the same time as my kids were getting the benefits of the school.
- [08:24]
Alice Ayers
I had a sense with that, too, that you had a plan. I seem to remember you talking about, well, the kids are here. They're going to stay through my work. Well, for them. And then when they're done, I'll be rotating off the board very much. This kind of discipline about your own personal, professional life plan.
- [08:42]
Bill Littlejohn
Well, that's a great point, Jay, in that that was part of my decision to go to Sharp was, you know, I was. As a consultant, I was doing great work, enjoyed the client. Sharp was a client. And I. Great colleagues, did a lot of work at hp. All of that, you know, colleagues and friends. I know to this day, it was great. And of course, Sharp made an offer to me to take the job. And originally I declined because I enjoyed the consulting and. And I weren't. They weren't where I might wanted them to be because I was telling them all of that. And they said, well, we continue to consult together. But then I, my son had been born and he was about a year old and I had another one on the way and I said I really don't want to do that kind of travel. I want to see my kids grow up. I don't want to leave at 4am and get home at 10 and you know, and, and not be part of that. So in that Sharp said that was the right decision. And so the idea to take the job at Sharp and pack up and then ultimately to stay at Sharp one because it's a great organization and they supported myself, the team and the philanthropic program immensely. And and then of course my kids could grow up in one place and they could, you know. And so at the end of the day it was like, okay, the yeah, I'm going to stay here because the kids are at Santa Fe. Christian Sharp's given me a great Runway to do the work we want to do and take the long view, do much more strategic work than just raise a bunch of money. And so that fit, fit sort of perfectly. So, you know, I didn't at the time, you know, when I took the job, I didn't know it would be the last stop. You never do, you know, and I was just, you know, in my early mid-40s and so. But I look back and here I've now spent, you know, between the consulting and the full time, you know, 27 years. And when it's all done, it'll be about 30 years, you know, of the nearly 50 I will have spent in philanthropy. But at the same time I've only had three employers and that right now I'm in 42 years, the American Cancer Society and the consulting work and then.
- [10:40]
Alice Ayers
Sharp and like you said, that's the anomaly. And this is where people rotate in and out every 18 to 24 months.
- [10:47]
Bill Littlejohn
I mean there's some people with some great tenure, but you're right. And that's not just in healthcare philanthropy, that's in the industry. You know, and there's lots of reasons for it. The shops are small and if you look for promotion, you kind of move on. You know, we've had not really barriers to entry and we hire people in that have some interesting background but may not the right characteristics and they don't fit perfectly or there's different expectations between performance of what the person we hire thinks or we hire ourselves, whatever and then issues with boards or executives or other people. It's a whole combination of things. I think it is the most challenging in the maitre gift field, not so much even chief development Officer because, you know, that sort of kind of an ill defined function where you have various different type, you know, Major gift officer was much more in the social kind of friendly, lots of interaction and then others are very disciplined and rigorous about that, you know, moves, management and doing really effective major gift work, you know, and I think, you know, I try to think of myself in that category and even today that, you know, I like to have great relationships or even friendships, but if I meet with somebody, the whole purpose is it's about philanthropy. At Sharp Healthcare, I mean that's what it's versus I'm going to spend a lot of time doing other types of things now. We all have to ultimately, but it's really interesting how we, and if you think about that, all the major gift training that's been done over the years, it's kind of morphed and now we have virtual major gift work that, you know, we always thought everything had to be done in person. You had to meet everybody where they are, you had to go to their place, come to them, they had to write personal notes and, and now you send them a text and you'll have a teams meeting or a zoom meeting and you can ask for a very big gift. And you wouldn't have thought of ever doing that 25 years ago, but it.
- [12:32]
Alice Ayers
Sounds like that's a comfortable place for you.
- [12:37]
Bill Littlejohn
I feel that I've sort of kept on that leading edge and that fundraising is great, but it's attached to legacy. But it also flips around that it's that we don't change because we've always done it that way. We've always done the event, we've always sent the invitation out on X date and it's got four colors. And I said, well, you know, and I, and I said, you know, the first thing people do when they get up in the morning, they look at their phone, they don't look, go to the mailbox and pick up the mail. And so we should be sending the invitation on the, you know, and have it formatted so you can read it on the device. It's like, well, we've always done it this way and like, yeah, you can continue to do it that way. You know, I, I, I've been talking a lot about digital transformation that's going on not in, not just in philanthropy or health care, it's going on in the world. And, and I saw a report from the Federal Reserve that they said that sometime after 2030, commercial check writing in the United States will be all but done down to I say, well, most people pay their bills online. They use Venmo, they give money to their kids, they, they don't write checks. I mean, still, it happened. They said, we're not that 20, 30 yet. But we built whole fundraising programs on paper. We built them in envelopes and letters and response devices and checks and check processing and invitations and reports and letters and all and all. It's still part of that, but that's all. It's transforming and it's not. So it's not just as much, oh, we have to have a website with online giving, you have to transform the functions you're doing into a new world. And so, and that, and that takes resources and expertise and time. But that's what other, you know, that's what, that's what banks have done and that's what airlines have done. I mean, you can't get a book with all the flight guide anymore. It's all go right online to do that. So. But we, many of us have been trained in that conditioning. Everything was personalized and it was, you give something to somebody, give them a brochure, you know, and it's like, well, that's not the most, you can still do it, but it's probably not the most efficient or effective. So how do we. And then that's all. But now it's also, what's great about that though is this next generation, that's all they're accustomed to. So they, they come in and say, why are we sending out a invitation on the mail? So I know we use Evite, you know, all the parties I've ever gone to. So we're in that kind of cross of, you know, in the generations and those of the who are. And that's one of the things, you know, I'm a baby boomer, so I don't want to be looked like I'm just an old guy, you know, like Bill's, you know, old fashioned guy, you know, and doesn't even know how to turn on his phone. I said I wasn't going to be that way because. But that's a really interesting thought process. And it's not just. Yeah, but it takes a strategic approach to it that we all have to transition the, our institutions, but also even the functions of what we were trained to do.
- [15:27]
Alice Ayers
And these changes have been occurring throughout our lives. So being adaptable is important. Let's go way back because you talked about what we were trained to do. You were trained well, you were trained in economics. I mean, yeah, we've talked about uva because UVA is not family tradition. It's a very traditional place, merging tradition with innovation. But what, where were you living at the time? What brought you to UVA?
- [15:51]
Bill Littlejohn
Well, that I grew up in Northern Virginia in McLean, Virginia, just outside of D.C. and after my parents had gotten married up in Providence, Rhode island, where my dad went to Brown University, they ended up settling in Northern Virginia because my dad, my grandfather, had been living there and my dad moved down there and my mom and he took a job in the government. So he spent his entire career and he worked at Health Education and Welfare and USAID and places like that and did as a personnel investigator. So they settled in Northern Virginia and ultimately had six children. But there was already a UVA tradition because my father's brother had gone to University of Virginia and then also my aunt had gone to nursing school there. So there was already started. And then of course, when you're in Virginia, you know, the opportunity to go to uva. It's a great school and it's a state school and it was very affordable for in state students for it still is to some degree and very much for us. So in the end, four of the six children went to the University of Virginia. I had a sister went to William Mary, and my brother went to Ohio University. So the tradition started. And so it was the idea that UVA was the first choice. And so I ultimately got accepted. But it's really interesting, when I did my application for uva, I put down, I wanted to major in history and go to law school. I didn't do either, but, you know, I enjoyed history. And I thought, well, you know, lawyer, but I didn't know what I wanted to do really. And so ultimately when I, when I got to uva, that certainly took some classes in history and things, but gravitated pretty quickly that to be to economics because it's such a. It's such a great background in terms of not just business, but its thought and logic and, you know, and analysis and, you know, lots of graphs and charts. But it created that sort of analytical thinking for you, trained you in some of that. And uva, you know, taught classical economics, but also theory, other price theory and things like that. So it's a. It was a great background. But. But at the same time, you know, we. I had an orientation toward some, you know, community service and, you know, I had obviously being in the D.C. area, political campaigns and things were of interest. I interned for two summers at the State Department when I was in college, really was great. And I actually took the foreign service exam and you know, kind of then I moved to Richmond for a project. But I was quite interested in potentially becoming a foreign service officer. So I really didn't know what I wanted to do with that degree when I got out of school, you know, going to banking or. But I ended up, ended up with a fraternity brother and others that got involved in the Virginia Gubertorial campaign. And Virginia does off year campaigns and so they become, they get national interest. Virginia and New Jersey are the only two states that don't do them. They do them in odd years and.
- [18:54]
Alice Ayers
You can only serve one term.
- [18:55]
Bill Littlejohn
Only serve one term. They're big time and they're right next to D.C. they're big time. So they hire bigger, bigger today. But I ended up getting involved working for the Attorney General who was running for governor. I just became a travel aide. So I traveled all around the state, you know, move to Richmond and you know, it's one of those things. It was a campaign, not a fundraising campaign. There were other people doing that. Although I did have to tell the candidate, it's time to make your fundraising calls. You know, sit down and go do that. In those days, it's like you'll make your calls now. They of course they send the emails but, and, but met a lot of people, did great. And actually then a colleague of mine who was on the campaign as a field rep, he got recruited to do another campaign in California. And I'm like, okay, I'm 22, 23 years old, I got nothing to do. Well, I'll go out and work with you. I was a campaign director person, you know, you know, in San Mateo county, south of San Francisco in 1982 and worked on that campaign. But you know, campaigns are, yeah, just very intense work for six or seven, nine months now. They're of course multiple years and but back then it was, you know, quite different but still it was still campaigning and like, okay, you now got to get a real job and versus and, and that the candidate I worked for did not win. And so there wasn't like a work in the, work in the office and all of that. And so I went back to D.C. and I'm like now what am I going to do? And so I just, and my, I had a brother had moved to Los Angeles and I'd worked in California. So I thought let's see if what's what might work in California. So I ultimately applied for a job at the American Cancer Society in Pasadena for like an associate executive director.
- [20:33]
Alice Ayers
You have any kind of connection to.
- [20:35]
Bill Littlejohn
Not cancer or the society. No, fortunately, our family's not had much of that. No, I had. And you know, I was what, 24, 23, 24. But it was, you know, I had done community service in my fraternity. I helped organize fundraising events and of course worked on this campaign, which was, you know, it's the meeting people, it's passing out stuff, it's doing that kind of, you know, it's not, you know, fundraising nonprofit work, but it's the same concept and that, you know, I didn't want to do just go to doing banking and become, you know, it was, you know, I did and. Or Wall street or something like that. It was like, nah, that doesn't, you know, and so, yeah, and they. But they ultimately interviewed me for this job in Pasadena, and they didn't hire me, but they said they really liked me and they wanted me to eventually to take on a fundraising role because of my background. And they had an interim role for communications marketing for a few months and do that. So I'm like, all right, I'm not tied down anywhere. So I packed up my cardboard boxes and flew out and spent a few weeks with my brother in Santa Monica and took the job at the American Cancer Society in Pasadena as an assistant director of development after this interim job, and then spent nine years there.
- [21:47]
Alice Ayers
I'm thinking that not being familiar with community service, but not necessarily fundraising, not in a professional role, that must have been quite a big switch.
- [21:57]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah, it was. I mean, it was California, a place I'd never lived. Sure. But I give credit to the Cancer Society. Obviously, it's always been a big organization and done lots of fundraising activities, especially in the direct response and special events, low dollar, high volume. Everybody support the Cancer Society. It was 40 years ago, so there weren't anywhere near as many kind of charities out there, and there wasn't all the Internet and everything else. So it was a lot of, you know, going to places and, you know, everything, setting up card tables to, you know, to working with local community groups and things like that. So, yeah, I mean, I started doing a golf tournament where, you know, the entry fee was $50. And, you know, and then that did. And then of course, the Cancer Society would like other big health organizations. They were real pioneers in big direct response. And that goes back to the 60s and 70s. And so, you know, they, you know, millions of pieces of mail in that, you know, they were that in that and that really, if I think about it, sort of the. The zenith of the whole direct response before the Internet was like the 80s and 90s, where I ended up running the California division's Direct response program, about 6 million pieces of mail a year. And it was quite sophisticated with all kinds of segmentation. And we worked with vendors who do the computer. We used to rent lists, people still do some of that. And we work with brokers and we had people who managed all the mails. And it was huge. We had content people, but it raised us a lot of money and it acquired us all the donors. I mean, Direct Response became the acquisition tool that built these big donor bases. And so those big national health organizations did that. And so it was great, great experience and worked in the fundraising data system that ACS developed and had a lot of opportunities both at the local, state and ultimately national level. So it was a great fundraising training ground because they had classes and programs because they're a big national organization. They sent you to conferences not just on fundraising, but on being a manager and interviewing skills and those types of things.
- [24:02]
Alice Ayers
And that's unique also.
- [24:03]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they do some of that. But yeah, I, I got a lot of training and not just in fundraising skills, but also, you know, yeah, executive, because I became a manager or director or assistant vice president and all that. And so there was a lot of that. So in my 20s, I got this whole kind of fundraising and I said, to this day, I really give a lot of credit to the rest in peace. The legendary Hank Russo of the original fundraising school that's now at Indiana University. He ran it out of his house in San Rafael, California for years. And I went to the fundraising school in 1984 in Mills College. And I have the black notebook and I've got that cube still and. But that's where it was a week long program, but it was the best program of learning about fundraising. The pyramid of giving, you know, the motivations for giving, major gift work, direct response plan gifts, all of that. Yeah, it's, you know, it's all typed up, notebook pages I still have. And to this day it still is that, that fundamental course at the time in my career when I'm, you know, 25 or 26 years old, you know, and just really getting going, laid really good groundwork. And you know, you didn't think about it at the time, but you look back on it, I mean, I've done a lot since then, but that sort of baseline and then being in an organization that would embrace some of those practices really gave me the groundwork to, you know, and I think if I look back and say Are we doing that today in sufficient dynamic?
- [25:34]
Alice Ayers
Do you mean the training or that.
- [25:35]
Bill Littlejohn
Everything or both the institutions or the field saying in the first, you know, and we tried to do that HP with the pathway, but not the first, you know, six months of onboarding, but the first six years and our people get. Now the organizations have to be big enough or whatever. But I think the training I got then both internally at ACS but through like the fundraising school and then I would. I subscribed to Fundraising magazine and Direct Response and I went to a few other conferences and programs and really honed in and became an adult learner and kind of learned. But that was the formative years that put the career to where I wasn't going to shift and say, okay, now I'm going to go run a restaurant or something or go work in a bank. I found that opportunity. So that gave me a really great baseline of work and education and then practice development, you know, and some innovation, you know, innovation in the database system. We actually worked with Arthur Anderson, which is long gone now, at the national level to try to design the new database. And I think at the time, I believe Blackbaud, Razor's Edge was just getting.
- [26:47]
Alice Ayers
Going and that turning from Fundmaster.
- [26:50]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah, Fund Master and then there was Donor Perfect was one of the original kind of software companies. So it's really interesting, you know, it'd be great. You know, I'm sure people have written some of that history, but. And that was all during the 1980s. I started at ACS in 83 and left there in 92. So. So all that's in just at the. Just at the 92 is when you're just getting into the Internet stuff. And so and we move, and we move from old batch processing by hand to PC based, you know, like using DBASE 3 for our gift processing. That would have been in the mid to late 80s. And then we went to the design. The national data system was being done like around 1990, 91 or so. So yeah. Then of course in the 90s you really get the big shift to the Internet and to, you know, much bigger systems, you know, even in. So that for my first decade was not, you know, Internet based and not with no web. There was no web dynamic. And so you did that raw fundraising. You sent out mailings, you know, you did acknowledgement letters, you know, you called people. We had phone a thons, you know, we had volunteers come in. We used to. ACS did old residential programs like the Mother's March of Dimes where we recruited volunteers. To go door to door. And then they went neighbor to neighbor and passing kits and people putting donations in a big envelope. And you've recruited people to be your block chairman. I mean, it's impossible to think of that today, but a lot of those big national health organizations did that. They recruited, you know, thousands of volunteers, many of them, you know, mothers and people who weren't raising kids. But they became the. So you. And even the. The American Cancer Society called its big campaign the Crusade. And they had, you know, and they built it like a military. You know, they had. They had units and divisions, they called it. That's what the names of the organization was, not chapters, units and divisions. It was like a big military structure. And then you worked with these big groups of. Or you tried to work with big groups of volunteers. It's fascinating when you kind. I think about it now, but that's what you did back then.
- [28:52]
Alice Ayers
So some of the things that we've been talking about have to do with technology and kind of testing those out, using them while they're useful, moving on to new things. But some of this is also just about the things that work and have worked since Hank Russo. What remains the same. So when it comes to anything from the donor pyramid to the contact that you have with individuals about supporting an organization to whatever, what's the most consistent.
- [29:19]
Bill Littlejohn
You know, it's a great point and consideration. So, you know, to this day, you know, we talk. We do big campaigns and we talk about, you know, that I've always said is that there's two reasons why a fundraising campaign succeeds, and there's the inverse of that is why they don't. It's usually not the case for support or the institution. It's not like, well, that it's not that the heart center isn't a good project or that Sharp is not a great organization. That's usually not it. If that was it, you wouldn't be doing the campaign. You'd be trying to solve that issue. First, and the reason is that the reason it succeeds, you ask enough people who have the capability of giving. And second thing, you do it in the most effective way. Now, in the old days, it was in person education before asking structured assets very, very well laid out in terms of how to give recognition, how much, all those things and then follow up, you know, to close the gift. And we used to use, and we still do to some to this day, about the John d. Rockerbell Speech, Jr. Speech from 1933 about the technique of soliciting that's still today. Now how you do it today using different technology and platforms, but you still got to do it. So even today you got to use social media or email or texting or cool stuff to educate and cultivate the relationship. And then you have to put before them the opportunity to give. And the reasons that again, the reasons they don't, that doesn't work is because they don't give it to enough people. They don't. Or they punt and just send a letter. You know, we ran the direct, I ran the direct mail program. We had to ask, you know, and even the, you know, we were pleased with a 2% response rate in direct mail. But we want to get a 70 or 80% response rate in major gift work because we do it all in person. Really well done. And it gives us the big gifts. And it actually. So, you know, in the end of the day there's, you know, and there's still the aspect you have to ask, but it gets that you have to do it effectively. And then the challenge even more so today is getting attention of people. That's where bombarded with devices and everything else. And they said, we used to train people said in order to get big gifts from big donors, you have to get their attention. And then power and influence will do that. That's why you use volunteers who could say, Jay, I know you, you respect me if it's just anybody else and Jake and just simply say, oh no, I'm just way too busy to do that. So. And that's even more the challenge today is getting people's attention. Because of that, we are loaded with bombardment of information and attention grabbing. But a lot of 24 hours a.
- [32:05]
Alice Ayers
Day kind of shallow attention, shallow touch the depth of those relationships.
- [32:11]
Bill Littlejohn
I mean that's, I mean that's what this donor crisis about. People saying that, you know, the surveys are showing that less than half, less than half the households are giving today. Forty years ago, when I started the Cancer Society, the report on giving the aafrc, I guess it is it was gone then. I think the report had about was reflected giving of 300,000 organizations, nonprofit 501C3s federally registered. Now there's closing it on 2 million. Right.
- [32:39]
Alice Ayers
And I think what 75% of people gave or something closer, right?
- [32:42]
Bill Littlejohn
And 400, that's a 400% increase. Yet the population in the United States has only increased by 40%. So everybody's getting asked all the time, every day and you know, in every possible way, you know, by email and TV and everything else. I mean we should do you know, yeah, it was a unique thing to have the Jerry Lewis telethon. Now the, now many organizations are doing that every night asking for $11 a month or $19 a month. You know, the Shriners and St. Jude and Tall towers and it's great. But that's what they're funding is that. And you've got 100 cable channels you can put that on. So, you know, it was really interesting people saying that in those, we just finished the election in those seven swing states. Those people, you know, poor people got inundated basically 24 hours a day on television, on text and on email from political campaigns, both asking for money or asking for their vote. And they're like, thank God it's over. But I mean, what do you do? And you can't, you know, even in San Diego, I think there's an estimate there's more than 14,000 non profit organizations. Well, how would you even know who they are and what they do? And everyone has a website and everyone can send out email.
- [33:54]
Alice Ayers
What's the net effect do you think then on those people in those swing states getting all those messages or all the people in San Diego now hearing from 14,000?
- [34:02]
Bill Littlejohn
Well, one, what happens? It's right, well, you know, everything else takes a hit and people just say no. They just, they say, I can't, I'm not going to do anything. And then you're right, it's become very shallow and very transactional. You know, giving Tuesday, that's a great thing, but it's transactional. So I give today because it's Tuesday. Are you, what, you know, what's it for? You know, we did a survey of our donors this last year and two things came out of it. And that's been a tried and true thing. They said, acknowledge me, which is great. Send me a note, thank me, give me a receipt, whatever. Tell me what you did with the money. Don't ask me again until you tell me what you did with the money. I already gave. Even an organization, they know who we are. Tell me what and then if you want me to give in the future, share your vision and why my gift will be important of achieving that vision, not just a need base. But why should I entrust you with my generosity? What's it really going to do in the future? And so but we've gotten into this asking and asking and asking, very shallow. And then people and I think they did a survey once showing that 50% of the people only give once to an organization because they would say and they never really Told me what they did with my gift. Granted, if it's a big gift for a project, I understand that. But most money is still giving in small amounts and it goes into the kind of the black hole and so. And then they never get a sense. So they never develop a true institutional relationship. It just becomes this transactional one. Give again, give again, give again. It's your end. Make a gift at your end. We now make sure that we go back to even all of our unrestricted donors, especially in our annual report and other communication and tell them what we did with your $50 gift was combined with many others and we transferred from our unrestricted money which you gave a million dollars to help us build this new patient tower. You can be proud that you're part of. Sure. We got a million dollar gift to name something. We also took a million dollars and gave it back. We spend more of our communications not on. And we do it thanking people, but not on how much we raised. It's what we distributed.
- [36:13]
Alice Ayers
And then have you found a way to check back and make sure that they've receive that impact statement message?
- [36:18]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah, well that's the other big challenge today is that when you're doing things electronically, what you know, one of the most important things you look at even in a newsletter is your open rates. And like you know, back in the old days with we know that in direct mail people just threw the mail away. They always just say what should you put on the envelope? Because you wanted to open the envelope, then you wanted to read the letter, then you want them to take the response device, then you went to them to refill out the response device and then you want to put it in a mailing. Then do you want, do you want to put a self address stamped envelope or you want to put it then like all these steps they had to go through. Now what do they can do? QR code and go right to the giving page. So you're exactly right. And that because we're using these new digital platforms to educate, cultivate and solicit. Yeah. How effective how what's the open rate for that newsletter and what's the click through and then what's the call to action? So we still have steps to go through and we can measure those today. So that's an important thing that organizations will need to do is look at those. The new analytics, the new KPIs versus just the response rate from a piece of direct mail is that in the end of the day you're right. So even today we say well we probably ought, for this group, we probably should send both a letter and an email, because the email can easily get lost in the other hundred emails that we all get and. Or get put into bulk or junk mail files. Right? And so all of that, and now with this massive number of organizations, we are flooded. And I'm a donor, too, and I get the same thing. So back to your almost first question, what our objective is. We don't have to be number one, but we would like to think that we're in the top three to five philanthropic choices for people. We thank people or congratulate them if they give to the museum or they give to the church. And they tell us that you're philanthropic, you know, because we're worried about half the population not even giving it all. But then what are the. And so the end of the day is that. And so that. That we appreciate. And so if we think that we can establish a good relationship, even to the point that we don't have to give every single year, but they can become part of the sharp giving family and become loyal to us, and we can nurture that relationship over a period of time so that ultimately they can, you know, that we can have a philanthropy dynamic that is retained and grows. And so, you know, I say there's only three ways you raise money, not special events, and not you acquire a donor. You retain them, and you grow them. The reason that religion raised so much money for so long, less today because there's less people going to church than there was. And that's. That's demographics of other things. But they asked for money every week in person. And then they also had people fill out envelopes with checks. I learned giving from my parents who would, you know, when we go to church, remember, you'd pick up the box of envelopes and had your name, had a little sticker with your family's name on it. And you would put your $20 check in the envelope and you put it in the plate. And if you missed, missed a church, you could put right for $40, or you could put two checks in the next time. Well, I give today to my church, but I give it through my checking account every week. And now my church is on YouTube, so I don't even have to go. Physically we do, but also it's like, oh, we're late, you know, but I can watch it and I can interact and I can take communion, but I can. But I know that they will still get my contribution whether I watch it go there or don't do Anything. That's the. And that's where. And that's what you're seeing. A lot of these organizations is looking to replace the religious money in the plate with $11 a month, $19 a month through EFT, through online giving page, through Venmo, whatever it might be. Recurring giving.
- [40:13]
Alice Ayers
You've talked about service. I mean, you were involved in service organizations early on. I think that was probably a part of even attending church. The Episcopal Church back.
- [40:25]
Bill Littlejohn
Oh, it was Presbyterian Church.
- [40:27]
Alice Ayers
So there was always a service element. I know you mentioned that before. There was historically a service element to people's involvement in giving, especially through the big service organizations you mentioned. Hospitals, like Shriners is a great example of this. Rotary, which I believe you're in.
- [40:43]
Bill Littlejohn
I'm doing Rotary and I'm a Paul Harris Fellow. I'm a donor to Rotary as well.
- [40:47]
Alice Ayers
But we've also seen a decline in these spaces. Do you have any thoughts about what, besides the fact that we've barraged people with email and text messages, what may be happening here and how. How are you addressing it at Sharp?
- [41:01]
Bill Littlejohn
That's such an interesting kind of historical. There was a book or something written about, you know, that, you know, there's few bowling leagues left, you know, bowling alone. I think Bowling alone. It was, you know, I was in a bowling league as a kid.
- [41:15]
Alice Ayers
Right.
- [41:15]
Bill Littlejohn
You know, and it was like that was both a social. It wasn't a fundraising thing, but people did bowling and there were lots of service clubs or even when you were younger, there was, you know, the Key Club club and in schools. And then, of course, then there's the Lions and all of that. And they're still around, but others have. Right. Because the idea of we've become very somewhat independent and our group dynamic is now in social media and people. You have friends and, you know, on Facebook that. Are they really your friends as people? I'm friends with that I have never met and probably never will meet, but there's some connection to that. So you're. That's a really great point about. Because, you know, inspiration is the essence of philanthropy, and giving impacts giving and people. But can you join a campaign, you join a family of donors so that you make a great point. But now with all of this, you know, transactional and not. Not personal from a standpoint of seeing people or going to a meeting or going to. So we, we want to do both. We have a real plan to do both to where, yes, we want people to join the family of donors and communicate with them effectively, be part, you know, Lots of communication, education and stewardship that makes you feel part of. Not just a donor, but you're part of the Sharp family. And then the aspect. But then also, we don't want to do it just all digitally. We want to make sure that we, you know, we have opportunities for education or stewardship or socialization in the. In the environment at the institution. And we have a new innovation Education Center. We've already done several educational events or stewardship events, and they've been great. And part of it was even we did one for the Jewish Community foundation in San Diego, which is a great organization. They have a huge impact. But we brought a number of their donors and their leaders over, and we had a presentation from several physicians leaders, and it was amazing, even sophisticated donors afterwards saying, wow, I didn't know all the stuff that you guys do. I said, you really wouldn't unless we showed you. And you're not supposed to know that. And we don't have to ask the Jewish Community foundation leaders to say, hey, you need to go. You need to give this to all your people. And that. We could have asked that and then nobody would have read it. But when we brought you over, now, whether that leads to. But so in the end of the day, we have to say to ourselves, people, yeah, there are people who give. It's why they have alumni associations and universities, is that you're part of a club and they have donor clubs. But we want them not just to be part of donor class because they gave X amount of money, but they're part of the Sharp family and we're educated. Our board members love being board members because they're great volunteers, but they love being insiders in the organization. They love learning about all the cool things about healthcare, all the challenges. They love hearing from the CEO or a doctor. I said, I would never would have known this otherwise. So even today, our biggest job with board directors is cultivation and education and letting them be great ambassadors. Not being governors and having to try to manage this big word. But you raise a great point that the world's changed in that now it's like there's Facebook groups, but there's not bowling leagues.
- [44:24]
Alice Ayers
No. Well, there's another piece to this, too, which is that the nature of the campaign itself, or fundraising activity has. Has, you know, it's become so focused on a small group of people rather than the collective. I get the impression that what you've done with Sharp is a little bit different because you've raised, You've raised, or they have given, I guess. Both a vast sum of money. And I remember you telling me years ago about this kind of hundred million dollar campaign on almost an annualized basis for 10 years.
- [44:58]
Bill Littlejohn
Right.
- [44:59]
Alice Ayers
That was different kind of campaign.
- [45:00]
Bill Littlejohn
It wasn't all you were two years. No, it's exhausting. One, it's the aspect that it's the long term view and that's. And you raise a great point is that, you know, here we are teaching people in philanthropy about legacy and about the donor pyramid. And you don't go up the pyramid in six months. It takes 60 years sometimes. Yet we try to do these fundraising programs like overnight, like do a challenge or do a campaign in six months, you know, and create momentum and all of that. But at the same time, organizations like Sharp don't move that way. We don't build buildings in six months. We don't, we don't transform the organization. They're like battleships. It takes a long time for them to turn around. And so is that an advantage? In a way, it's a great advantage.
- [45:41]
Alice Ayers
If you're talking long term for people. Are they more invested in the ideas than if you just said we're going to build the building tower completely?
- [45:47]
Bill Littlejohn
I mean like me with my tenure, I mean, for so long we've done kind of two things in the world of fundraising, not just healthcare. We've done the annual fund kind of thing, you know, give to the annual fund because we're going to do this everything from send a kid to camp to provide for a scholarship, to do whatever. And then we do a campaign. And the campaign would be for this or that or a multiple of things. And we try to compress the campaign so they're much longer today. And then when the campaign's over, we go back to the annual fund thing. No, in that. So we said that's not really strategic, that's episodic, including the campaign. So we need to have. And what we went down and say, what is the institutional role of philanthropy in driving excellence at Sharp Healthcare? And so Sharp Healthcare has to be successful every year, it has to invest in every year. And so the same thing with philanthropy, but it has to be viewed over as a long term dynamic. So even for us to say we not just want to raise money and distribute it, we want to build the balance sheet of deferred gifts that will be cashed out in future years and that we want loyal donors that will be loyal to us not every year, some every year, but over their lifetime. That's going up the pyramid. We want our own donor pyramid. And Sharp would like people to be patients for the rest of their lives. We want to keep them out of the hospital, but we'd like to take care of you for the rest of. We want you to be in our network. And so we want to create not just grateful patients, but loyal patients to the organization and the, and of course through philanthropy. And I, you know, and I've likened that to, you know, what's the, you know the concept of like the frequent flyer programs which you know, in the end of the day when they were started, you know, back like in the 80s and I, for example, I've been a long time United flyer and that, that it was all about customer loyalty. So they would spend money at United and if you give them enough benefits they go out of their way to fly. And I've done that. I, you know, it's like, oh, and then, but on days I can hate United but then I, but I've get enough benefits, I'll go back and the same time. But they've also learned, you know, for a while they, you know, it was a struggle for them, you know and some of them trying to get rid of some of it because they had huge liabilities on all these miles people people had accrued but they forced, they fixed and they've used the digital dynamic so that, so today United Airlines has a great relationship with me electronically. I don't know anybody but boy did they, you know, they send me not just emails but even when I travel they can tell me when my flight's gonna, if it's delayed that you know, do I want to order something on the plane. Your, your bag's going to be a terminal this and that they're using and so they're, I mean I got this personal relationship relationship with this great big huge place and then I'm also getting additional benefits on top of it. So I'm going to be loyal to them for the rest of my life.
- [48:41]
Alice Ayers
Do we have an equivalent?
- [48:43]
Bill Littlejohn
Well, I think you know, alumni associations try to do that and universities and you're always alumni. Hospitals are not quite that way. But I think every organization has an opportunity to say we have a long term vision and plan and we have things we want to do today and tomorrow in the future and we'd like you to be a partner with us forever. And, and we all, we'd also have to accept that not everybody can have everybody in it. There's too many nonprofits and say, you know, and that's to say is that so I'm absolutely fine if we're number three or number five, you know, but we're not number 27. And, you know, I think we. And we sort of saw that in Covid, too, that you had people. We had lots of outside donors, but not. They didn't stay around. And that's okay. I mean, they supported hospitals because it was an important thing to do. We got. But we got some to keep. But you raise a great point, Jay, that shouldn't that be our strategy? And I think this gets to the point that every institution, whether it's a pure fundraiser, should have a strategic philanthropy plan. Not even a fundraising plan. It's philanthropy in the role of philanthropy in the institution and how you elevate it, how you acquire, retain, and grow donor relationships. Then also that relates then to talent and tenure, how you train people to do those functions. And then you then also you kind of smooth the curve because you're not going to have. Raise all the money one year and versus you get all kind of, you know, oh, we had a bad year. You got to fire everybody or whatever it is at the end of the day is that. But then. But then again, you have to overlay both these principles that I learned 40 years ago from Hank Russo to this brave new world of digital and communication challenges and attention and seek and how platforms and everything else that just aren't. That. They just. They're not efficient or effective as they were before. They're just not in that. Like I said, is that direct mail? You know, in fundraising, its days are probably numbered, right? I mean, you.
- [50:44]
Alice Ayers
You are. You're keeping very fresh as you do all this work. That's.
- [50:50]
Bill Littlejohn
That's what you. I had to.
- [50:51]
Alice Ayers
I. Yeah, well, everybody should. But you. You definitely do. And I'm wondering if you are also because of that, because you're so close to it, the innovation. If you're seeing a change in the nature of the donors themselves, maybe it's generational, maybe it's everybody in terms of how they're interacting with us, not just with the technologies they choose or when they choose to give or if it's monthly or not or if it's a campaign or not, but how they feel about us, this relationship of trust that we try to foster.
- [51:23]
Bill Littlejohn
Are you seeing change? There's been surveys saying nonprofit trust is eroded. You know, trust in certain institutions have eroded, and part of it is certainly our fault. Right. And especially ones like. For philanthropy, that is a learned dynamic. I mean, there are people who are pure philanthropists who just, you know, the Mother Teresa's of the world that they are just, you know, they're. But they're few and far between. Like I said, I learned the philanthropy from my parents and the fact not just giving, like to the church, but my mom. My parents volunteered and did stuff, and they got us involved with, you know, Memorial Day services at the American Legion and, you know, and helping out and doing stuff. And then I got involved in. In. In college. And of course, we were in a place, you know, where civil service and so, yeah, there clearly are societal changes. For example, the government has become huge. It's one of the big issues in politics is the size of the government bureaucracy and budgets. And that means to the point of that government has taken over some of the charity that was done or at the end of the days, that communities rise up themselves and do things well. Now it's the expectation the government's going to take care of that.
- [52:45]
Alice Ayers
It's funny, though, because at the same time, there are so many organizations to do the things that the government doesn't.
- [52:50]
Bill Littlejohn
Do, and that breeds even more distrust. So if I say there's 2 million nonprofit organizations out there raising. When you see the report, or whether it's $500 billion, whatever it is, well, how come things seem to be worse? So there's more problems than ever before. Now, granted, the society has changed along with it. You know, the demographics and everything. From. Yeah, from. But it does raise the question that, you know, we spend all this money, raise all this money, but. Or like, you know, the challenge, like in homelessness in California, there are endemic issues around mental health and alcoholism and drug addiction. And we're part of, you know, we treat people, but there's. It's not just providing shelter. These people are out of work. There's other issues. And that until you change some of your society dynamics, it's hard to solve them with just money and some type of temporary solution. You know, I've talked about that about, you know, it's incredible, the work that organizations and philanthropists have done in Africa, but there's still incredible problems and challenges. And it's ba. It's based on their societies, more so than, you know, they, you know, they. There's wars and there's famine, there's bad governments and there's, you know, so in the end of the day, is that the society. We. We are different than we were 20 years ago, 40 years ago. And it's not good or bad, but it's different. But you look at also certain organizations or sort of norms have not changed much about. Well, you just do the same thing over and over again, you know, with gas for the year end gift and, and we're going to like, certainly organizations have changed, but in the end of the day is that the aspect of solving problems through philanthropy has become a much bigger challenge. And that's where this sort of trust comes in, that organizations do raise a lot of money. Well, they look at it in higher education. You know, the tuition that I pay for my kids out of state tuition is way, way more, you know, than the inflation rate, yet the institution has billions of dollars in endowment and racism.
- [55:03]
Alice Ayers
About that, as a parent, mixed.
- [55:06]
Bill Littlejohn
I mean, I get it, but I looked at my, you know, what it cost me to go to UVA in the late 1970s versus what I paid for Will, it was great. It was worth it. But it's way, way beyond any inflation rate. And yet they have all this money in endowments. I mean, they, you know, that they could fund everybody's tuition and they ask for more money and more and then they build, building and do stuff with it. But in the end of the day, it's even to the point where there's, you know, buzz about should we be taxing university endowments because they're just making so much money. And of course. And that also even fed the student loan problem because the universities were not on the hook. They don't have to pay it back. And so they got their money up front. The kids borrowed the money. The university got its huge tuition piece. And that's why even tuition's gone up because it gets subsidized through loans, not even scholarship loans. And they can charge. And then they, and then the defaulted and they want the government to step in and pay it. But the university didn't have to pay any of it back, so they're charging way more. And they're. But they're still getting paid. So, you know, you. So yeah, so it creates, right, It's. And then people are coming out saying, college education isn't worth it today you can go online and you can learn stuff and do stuff, and you can get right into the tech world without wasting four years and a quarter million dollars and do great. And so it's like, well, in that. And so even the point saying, well, here's these universities and say, give us money, give us money, give us money. And so even while you're paying tuition, give us more money, you know, while your kids in school. And like, you know, it begins to, it rubs on people. It's like, it's hard to. And Hard. And I see some of the stuff they're doing. So what's happened in. And in this big donor crisis with the fewer donors, it's all about the big ones. It's all about mega. I mean, it's great and congratulations and you know, the, and that, and. But the problem is, is there's a bigger competition for the small, the big donors. And, and when those, this wealth transfer, when it goes on, will it end up really happening or not? Will it go elsewhere and that. And now even like say that today's generation can't buy houses, can't, you know, when are they, are they ever going to be able to be a philanthropist? Except for the few who've made a lot of money in the, in the world. Right. So we're dealing with huge societal changes of which we. Some things we certainly can't control.
- [57:32]
Alice Ayers
Have you been able to control for it in a way or adjust to it at Sharp?
- [57:37]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. What we're proud of is I'll be raised a lot of money, distribute. But I was most, when I got to Sharp, how few donors we really had, because we had done the traditional kinds to send out some mail, have a cocktail party, write grants, do a few things. It was fine, all well and good, but we weren't tapping into the patient relationship and the grateful patients or the loyal patients. So that we have increased our number of donors by a pretty big factor, probably 5 or 6x on that, which has built a better pipeline. And so we've raised a lot of money. And I said we've, you know, since I've been at Sharp, we've raised in excess of $500 million. And the biggest gift we've received is 10 million, which is really nice, but it's not like 50 million or 100 million.
- [58:21]
Alice Ayers
But also you weren't running a capital.
- [58:23]
Bill Littlejohn
Campaign and we did that. Some of that was campaign related. But we've gotten really great gifts and a huge number in what we call the sweet spot, spot of giving, say 250,000 to say $5 million, including deferred gifts and gifts of real estate and appreciated assets. So we built both a pipeline, but also we've spread out that pyramid and we're not. Well, the pyramid has really been. It's changed now to where it used to be, the 80 20. Now it's 90 10. In some places in a campaign it's 95, 5 or even 99. 1. It's one person giving half the money, one donor and the other half, you know, and then the other one coming from less than 100 sources or, you know, I used to do that in campaigns, and you'll probably get at least around half your money from your top 10 donors. But now what you have is you have this reduction of the donor prices about fewer people giving, which means the pipeline gets narrower. And then. And then identifying and having enough major gift prospects for you is challenging. But now you're crowded by thousands of organizations were looking to do the same thing. So it's like, you know, the incredible Joan Crock, you know, from McDonald's, was here in San Diego. Great philanthropist. Everybody had Joan Kroc on their list, but very few. But they think, because she. And that's the thing, is that if you go to every community, well, who are the big donors here? And like, you know, but then they go away. And then some of them, you know, comrade Prebys who passed away recently but has a billion dollar foundation, others, their money ends up, they're done and they move, you know, they don't have that. So. But who will be those people in the future?
- [60:00]
Alice Ayers
So you now have been doing this work with Sharpe, and not just the fundraising work, but preparing Sharp for the future.
- [60:09]
Bill Littlejohn
Right.
- [60:11]
Alice Ayers
How do you imagine that they will move forward after you choose to.
- [60:16]
Bill Littlejohn
Hopefully, similar to what we've laid out, this strategic philanthropy, where we really look at the three big fundamental forces of acquisition, retention, and growth of relationships. And that the institutional prioritization of philanthropy is, you know, we look at ourselves as three companies. We're an operating company, a financing company, and an investment through philanthropy company, which is very. The great value proposition. But the point is that we want to continue to build a loyal family of donors of all sizes that will be loyal in their giving, we hope, for as long as we have them.
- [60:53]
Alice Ayers
And it sounds like not just the donors that you've met over your tenure, but also the people who come in.
- [60:58]
Bill Littlejohn
Through that pipeline, and those are relationships with physicians, with nurses, with executives. You know, in the end is that, you know, Sharp treats a million people a year in one way or the other. Inpatient, outpatient. That's our sort of prospect pool. We don't need a very large percentage of those people to become. We'd like to have as big as possible. But even a small percentage of a million people can be a big pipeline of relationships. And that's the thing, is that in a, you know, it is where patients can be like alumni, but even if you're not like a patient, even any other organization, even like Santa Fe Christian Schools, my Kids don't go to school there. And I even think they could probably do more with alumni parents than they're doing today, because their big focus is on when you're there and maximizing parent giving. And that makes sense. I mean, how most schools do that. And a lot of you know that when my kids are gone, like, well, as an alumni parent, I'm going to give to UVA or I'm going to give to Santa Fe Christian, but at the end of the day, you know, I'll always have that relationship. But here's another interesting sort of point. I thought so. You know, for a number of years, we supported a mission program in India in which it was for basically a student to go to school and get trained. And we gave monthly contributions, and she went through her school, ultimately going to college, and she'd write us letters and thank her for all of that. And then it came to the end and she graduated and so. And told us the story. Thank you. And so. Okay, well, we can stop. We've given her her help. And so I thought, okay, we've done our kind of duty there. Could we want another student? I said, no, we've done other stuff. So we made it. We made a. We made a fairly larger gift at the end and say, congratulations, she made it. Success here and we're done. But we back, you know, for, I don't know, 10 or 15 years, we gave them money and I added up and now. And they should be absolutely satisfied that we've done our thing and they don't need to keep going after us because. And so. And that's the thing is your philanthropic. Your own personal philanthropic priorities. My shift to. During your life, even in my. In our. In our trust, in my estate and our will and trust. It doesn't have a specific church, and it just has the church that we're attending at the time of our death. We'll get a portion of that because you change potentially. I have UVA in there. I have sharp health care in there. I own. I have sharp there because I work there. And so, you know, it's like. But I might amend that. But there's that kind of clause. And so I think that's the aspect is that we all need to think about a donor journey that we all. We can be part of, whether it's for their entire life or a period of time, you know, or whatever there. And we have to go to the donor's kind of orientation toward that versus yeah, we got to have their annual gift every year. Oh, look, Go chase them down because they laugh. You know, we even today look at, we don't just look at, you know, our annual donor rates. We look at, we kind of think about our active donors that they made at least one gift in the last three years and so they don't have to give every single year. At the same time, we certainly have people who do that. So I think we, but I think we can do more of that. I think we can do better work there because we have access to all this information and we can communicate through so many platforms. And, you know, we're building a donor portal that's going to be tied to our Sharp database system with single sign on, just like a bank or the airline that you're going to have a personal, you know, connectivity electronically. But it'll be much better than, you know, sending you a statement in the mail that, you know, whether or not you'll read it or not. So, you know, it's kind of fun to be, you know, you know, in the stage of my career, to be also be part of this incredible transformation. I mean, I mean, it's just, it's amazing to, and to see my kids and others. I mean, just think of that, that. Who would have thought, you know, TikTok influencers and you know, and, but the impact that it's having, it's that, you know, and the, and the viral nature of things. I mean, the ultimate thing was the Ice Bucket Challenge and that, you know, that was almost like, you know, manna from heaven for it wasn't really the als, it was one guy who did it and next thing you know it's, you know, Bill Gates doing it, you know, on TV and, and it may never happen again. And people try that. But you see some things on GoFundMe and things like, but then you, then now, you know, they didn't get at all that the GoFundMes of the world and these other third parties who want to take over the fundraising and do it for you kind of thing, but the money goes through them and they take a cut of it and there's all of that, you know, the third party fundraising firms and electronics and the money isn't being given, it's given to the score. And then they cut you the check and send you the, I mean that, that was the whole Amazon Smile thing. That was, the Amazon Smile thing was you, you got a check you didn't even know it was from, so you couldn't put it in your database. You couldn't go thank somebody. You got $247 because somebody bought something on Amazon.
- [65:54]
Alice Ayers
So you're creating an environment where the relationship is with Sharp because they're giving.
- [66:00]
Bill Littlejohn
To the institution, not giving to the foundation. You. They're given to Sharp, not giving to me. And they're not given to the foundation, they're giving through the foundation for. To Sharp or to the Innovation Education center or at Sharp Healthcare or this program that Sharp is going to implement. And we're going to thank them for that and give them information. This is what this program did that you gave money to.
- [66:20]
Alice Ayers
What I haven't asked you the mission of Sharp as you describe it when you talk to people, because that's important. Once they bond with this, they're bonding with that mission.
- [66:30]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah, I actually use the mission of our. I always say the mission of Sharpe is improve the health of the community with a commitment to excellence and all that we do. I say now look, there's one key word in that sentence, there's another piece to that about in different aspects. But the word improve, it's not take care of the community or care for. It's to improve the health, which is looking forward.
- [66:50]
Alice Ayers
It's not.
- [66:50]
Bill Littlejohn
Yes, looking forward and investment grade. To improve, you have to invest in people, in facilities and technology and innovation. So we want to improve your health, not just take care of you, you know, when you're sick or even just sort of baseline. So I said I can tap into that saying, so you don't give to us because we need the money. You invest in us, you invest in Sharp, who's going to improve your healthcare and your neighbors and the community by its investing and your partnership. So we've really moved away from need pays. We need the money. We don't have enough, you know, real charity to. We have a vision for the future and we're going to invest and we would like your partnership with us. And that's what goes back to the John D. Rockefeller speech of 1933. And he said something Never be afraid to go to ask somebody as if you were asking them for a high grade investment.
- [67:41]
Alice Ayers
It strikes me that it's maybe economics was the perfect discipline to. Because the way you describe these things but also think about the innovations is very. It's hard sound.
- [67:54]
Bill Littlejohn
Sure.
- [67:54]
Alice Ayers
But it's about the metrics, the return.
- [67:56]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah. And we talk about the cost of fundraising.
- [67:58]
Alice Ayers
Right.
- [67:58]
Bill Littlejohn
And I said, you know, if I go to the board and say, you give me a dollar and I give you $4 back when you stop giving me dollars, but then we flip it around on the investment side and say, look, you know, Sharp is. This is what we do in this big campaign we've just launched for the last few years, Sharp is investing 2 billion in the future of healthcare of San Diego. It's investing at Sharp, but it's for San Diego. It's for you. The foundation is facilitating a campaign to put in 250 million of that. The rest of that is coming from our operations, profit efficiency and borrowing and financing. So, you know, I say, you know, the best case statement for your organization is your bond issue. You know, it's 100 pages, but they want people to buy 5,000 or 10,000 bonds of a $400 million bond issue. What is it? What's the return on investment? They're going to build all this stuff. You go in there and it lays out the entire thing and how profitable with this, all this division and the plan, right? And we actually take that bond statement and use presence of that. So even we go to our donors and say, is, your gift is helping us improve our credit rating, which means we pay less interest, which means gift goes even farther. That's the economics and that's the. And big gifts come from sophisticated donors who know this stuff. You share that kind of business case or investment grade case, then it makes real sense. I mean, you see that in universities, they get big gifts for the future. You know, big scholarships or, you know, you know, they're going to build a new lab and do all this great stuff. You know, a lot of research money ends up going right to the researcher, and they have to feed on that. And that's a real challenge to keep that going. But yeah, the end of the day is that we have a business case for philanthropy. That's what we said is we leverage philanthropy. And so. And I think that's the other big thing is that we always have to make sure we know that their philanthropy and fundraising aren't the same. Philanthropy is the dynamic. It's this great legacy. It's the culture, it's the, you know, the love of mankind. Fundraising is the function that we facilitate to create a great culture of philanthropy and dynamic. And so I think that's. We have to make sure we manage that aspect too. So, yeah, and that's been one of the biggest changes. I think that will stay after I leave is we really tried change the aspect of philanthropy, the value proposition of philanthropy to improving healthcare in San Diego versus we need money because it's just cost a lot to build something.
- [70:22]
Alice Ayers
Right. You've definitely explained the why of it. And you know, as you talked about this, the other thing that I hearken back to is, and you've mentioned this twice about how you understood philanthropy through your family.
- [70:36]
Bill Littlejohn
Right.
- [70:37]
Alice Ayers
So you. What I'm curious about is the way maybe your children understand it.
- [70:42]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah. And actually, it's pretty cool that of course, you know, our kids, you know, grew up going to church with us, too. And of course they went to a school, a private school, where we donated and were very involved in the fundraising and, you know, and then they did some of that, you know, permission trips and things like that, but was really great to see with both of them in college, Will was the philanthropy chair for his fraternity, and he organized a run that they did from uva to Virginia Tech or whatever to raise money. And, you know, he organized stuff, and he asked me questions about that, and he realized the value of that, and he was of the fact that, you know, you know, giving back. And he went to his first kind of charity event in New York a few months ago. And actually, Lauren is now the, you know, treasurer and, you know, kind of fundraising person for her music sorority at Belmont. And she sent me a text about asking questions about, you know, should they. If they wanted to do something to help kids at a hospital and writing letters. I mean, how. How might best we, you know, go about raising the money for that? And so. So both of them, you know, are doing things like that, but they also, you know, they. They did volunteer work, you know, at Santa Fe, whether it was stuff in. Stuff in the seed bags or they did some things because Santa Fe had mission work that it did. And they both went on mission trips that. Not so much about raising, but they, you know, they, you know, they helped the communities, the people. Communities in need. Will went to Uganda and Lauren went to downtown LA and the homeless projects and stuff. So, yeah, they. And then they've come to enough of the sharp events, too, that, you know, and it was. What's really kind of interesting or fun is so we built our new innovation center, and we built the center for Philanthropy. And so. And I asked where I wanted a closing room for the people to ask for gifts. And they call it a library, but it was. It's the closing room for you. Private meetings, sign agreements and stuff. So we decided to pay for that, to fund it. And we put our name on the plaque, and it's all four of us. It's my, myself, my wife Lauren and Will are named on that. And. And I have the quote. I have my quote on there, which is the favorite one I use, which is the true meaning of life, is to plant trees under whose shade you do not expect to sit. So actually, when we first opened it up and the kids were home, they came down and had lunch and we took our picture in front of the plaque. The four of us kind of standing there in front of the plaque, and they're like. I think they. They're pretty proud of the fact that. And it was so funny that, you know, Lauren had surgery at Sharp. She had a brachial cleft cyst removed back in March or so, and she ended up on the floor where we had named one of the staff lounges. So when they wheeled her down, when they wheeled her down the corridor to her patient room, they said, hey, Lauren, there's your parents name on the wall. They said, that's pretty cool. So they've had enough both, but they've done them on their own. But they've had a lot of exposure to that and they participated in events. And even Lauren, she volunteered for the Arts for Healing program during her senior in high school. She played. Played the piano in the lobby the hospital on weekends for several hours. You know, they had a piano donated there, and they. The patients and the staff would come and sit around it. So she's, you know. Yeah, and I think that's it. That's you. You. You don't have to sit down and teach them. You have to show them. I mean, and that's the thing I think too, is that, you know, they talk about that. I've talked about that. They talk about that in surgeons is that, you know, learn one, do one, teach one. So we all have to learn the major gift process from others when. Then we've got to go do it and then teach others to do it. And so I think a lot of philanthropy has to be done that way that, you know, to learn it, do it, and then teach others to do it, because where else would they. Doing it themselves? And we're out of a textbook is. So I think, yeah, it's the aspect of exposure to that now, whether they go on and what their orientation will be is. But, you know, I think that's, you know, but yeah, it's fun to see them that way. And I think they're. They're proud of the fact that the family has been involved in doing stuff like this and, you know, so. And the charitable nature of things. Yeah, it's pretty good to see. So we'll see what happens next. But, yeah, but again, I look back, it was my family that both from the standpoint of, like, given to church, but also volunteerism. You know, my mom would paint, you know, crosses for the Memorial Day service at the Legion. My dad was the commander of the Legion post. And they'd sell oranges and grapefruits in the wintertime to. In boxes of them to raise money for the Legion post. And we'd be up there, you know, moving the boxes around as kids. And, you know, I didn't want to do it, but you really realize what they were doing it for and all of that. And so you don't realize at the time, like, I don't want to do this, dad. Just like, well, but, you know, you got to help out kind of thing. So, you know, and I think we have to get to more. Right. And that we have to philanthropy and people giving money away. It's, you know, wait a second. I mean, it's like, why would we do that kind of thing? And so, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a learned response. And so are we, are we doing the generational kind of teaching and training? You know? Yeah. How are we going to get Gen X or Gen Y? I'm like, well, it's going to have to be people who are older than they are who've done it. And that in reality is, is that, you know, the biggest giving comes when you have discretionary income. Doesn't come when, you know, you're right out of college. So what I gave Will for his graduation present was a lifetime membership in the alumni association at uva. Just paid for it. It's not, it wasn't them, but I've just paid. So he's now a MAP lifetime member. So that's nice for him. He can. Whether he decides to do other stuff, that's going to be up to him. But so that was the. And then we've joined the Parents Council at Belmont, which is a giving and engagement program. So, you know, so we'll have our. So now we've shifted from Santa Fe Christian that obviously UVA for some with the McIntyre School and then also in Belmont. But when Lauren graduates, you know, you know, I'm going to. That anymore. We might go to some performance, but. But that's the thing is that you also got to work with people in their giving dynamics first. You know, it's like, yeah, this is a big priority. Or not.
- [77:18]
Alice Ayers
It's their journey.
- [77:19]
Bill Littlejohn
Yeah, it's all of our journeys.
- [77:21]
Jay Frost
Well, that's it for this episode of the Philanthropy Masterminds podcast. If you'd like to learn more about Sharp healthcare, go to sharp.com our thanks to our sponsor, Donor Search, the world leader in AI and donor research for nonprofit fundraising, and our producer, Jack Frost. If you like what you heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, the donor search YouTube channel, or wherever you like to listen. And consider giving us a like and a positive review so others can find us too. Check out our live webinars on Tuesdays and Thursdays and come back next weekend for another interview with a leader in the world of social good. Until then, this is Jay Frost. Thanks for joining us. See you soon.