The PM Podcast – “Let Themselves Be Free: A Conversation with Debra Des Vignes, A Top Five 2025 CNN Hero”

Host: Jay Frost
Guest: Debra Des Vignes, Founder & Executive Director, Indiana Prison Writers Workshop
Date: November 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an intimate, wide-ranging conversation with Debra Des Vignes, recently honored as a top five CNN Hero of 2025. Des Vignes shares her journey from a nomadic childhood and a career as a crime reporter to founding the Indiana Prison Writers Workshop, a nonprofit empowering incarcerated individuals through creative writing. The discussion explores the evolution of her empathy, the transformative impact of storytelling in prisons, and the power of volunteering to foster change, both for those served and the volunteers themselves.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Life and the Power of Writing

• Debra’s Writing Origins

  • Fifth-grade journaling assignment sparked a lifelong passion for writing and reflection.
  • Frequent moves as a child led to feeling like an outsider; journaling became therapeutic.

    “Holding and hugging my journal closely and writing was very therapeutic for me.” – Debra Des Vignes [01:10]

• Evolving Genres

  • Started with nonfiction journaling, expanded to humor and imaginative writing as she matured.
  • Writing became a structured method of self-reflection and personal growth.

    “It’s been a good reflection opportunity for me…a guiding light in how I've lived my life writing and journaling.” – Des Vignes [03:41]

Transition into Journalism

• Serendipitous Start

  • Got an internship at ABC7 Los Angeles, which pivoted her into TV reporting.
  • Embraced the fast-paced, learning-driven environment of the newsroom.

• Reporting in New Markets

  • Moved from LA to smaller markets like Pocatello, Idaho, then to Thomasville, Georgia, and Birmingham, Alabama.
  • Coverage shifted toward crime reporting due to both personal interest and newsroom needs.

    “I worked the morning shift…a lot of the overnight crimes that happened, they needed a reporter to cover.” – Des Vignes [11:13]

The Draw and Toll of Crime Reporting

• Attraction to Crime Stories

  • Fascinated by the “why” behind crimes, not just the events.
  • Emotional impact of seeing lives change in courtrooms led to deeper curiosity:

    “Covering someone being sentenced…thinking to myself, I would love to be in his head…what he was thinking about.” – Des Vignes [13:28]

  • Noted challenges of maintaining compassion while needing to remain objective.

• Burnout and Industry Change

  • Increasing workload due to newsroom downsizing pushed her out of journalism.
  • Transitioned to PR and marketing for nonprofits, leveraging her storytelling skills for social good.

The Genesis of the Indiana Prison Writers Workshop

• Initial Exposure to Prisons

  • Volunteered at Plainfield Correctional (Indiana) leading a victim-impact class in 2017.
  • Off-script writing exercise revealed inmates’ raw storytelling talent.

    “There was a lot of extremely amazing raw talent in the room. Just budding writers and writers who were very vulnerable and expressive.” – Des Vignes [19:37]

• From Volunteer to Founder

  • Developed a 12-week creative writing curriculum for incarcerated men; extended the first class to a year due to strong engagement.
  • Notable transformation in participants' confidence, self-expression, and family relationships.

    “They would really just let themselves be free…whether it was poetry, nonfiction or fiction. The storytelling was nothing I had ever expected.” – Des Vignes [25:24]

Transforming Lives—The Power of Vulnerability in Prison

• Breaking Down Walls

  • Initial nerve-wracking experience as a volunteer in prison gave way to new empathy.

    “My perception was changing and I was becoming softer in a good way.” – Des Vignes [21:40]

  • Writing workshops became safe spaces; participants held accountable, experienced personal growth.

    “Not a lot [of them]...had gone through life sort of skating by and accountability was not...big in their lives. And so I said, ‘These are your assignments...you have to do this.’ And they did.” – Des Vignes [27:00]

• Ongoing Connections

  • Maintains relationships with most original participants, many of whom continue writing post-release and participate in speaking events.
  • Workshop helps strengthen bonds between participants and their families.

Organizational Growth and Challenges

• From Local to Multi-State Impact

  • Formalized as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit in 2018 after community encouragement.
  • Expanded to four states, operating in multiple correctional facilities with up to ten facilitators at peak.
  • COVID-19 pandemic temporarily halted in-person sessions but prompted adaptation with creative programs for previously incarcerated individuals.

• Serving Both Men & Women

  • Focus remains on men's prisons due to demonstrated need and facility openness, but the organization is active in one women’s facility in Montgomery, Alabama.

Reflection and Call to Action

• Evolving Perceptions

  • Time working with incarcerated people vastly increased her empathy compared to her time as a reporter.

    “I think back then I didn't...have as open a heart as I should have, but I was more covering the story of what needed to be covered.” – Des Vignes [35:23]

• The Importance of Volunteering

  • Encourages listeners to take part in causes they are passionate about, emphasizing the transformative power of volunteering.

    “All the nonprofits I know value volunteers who are sharp and willing and able to give back.” – Des Vignes [35:38]

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Empathy and Humanity:

  “As a volunteer, you realize that everybody really is one mistake away from potentially being in a situation similar to them.” – Debra Des Vignes [00:00, 21:43]

• On Early Influence:

  “Journaling...provided kind of a life review to be able to look back and say, okay, I've felt this, done this, traverse this, and now I want to do this.” – Des Vignes [03:07]

• On Transforming the Prison Classroom:

  “It was almost as if we were at a coffee shop together on the outside…and they would really just let themselves be free.” – Des Vignes [26:01]

• On Personal Growth Through Vulnerability:

  “Seeing and watching these men be vulnerable…it gave me the courage to also be vulnerable in my own world.” – Des Vignes [22:59]

Important Segments and Timestamps

• Debra’s Introduction and Childhood Writing [01:49–03:13]
• Journey into Journalism [05:44–09:17]
• Crime Reporting and Its Challenges [11:31–15:27]
• Shift to Nonprofit and Prison Work [16:47–20:46]
• First Prison Class, Empathy, and the Power of Vulnerability [20:57–24:39]
• Impact of Writing Program and Continued Connections [24:55–29:32]
• Founding Indiana Prison Writers Workshop & Growth [30:11–34:05]
• Reflections and Call to Volunteerism [35:03–36:07]

Episode Tone and Style

Thoughtful, genuine, and deeply personal—this episode maintains an honest, open, and optimistic tone. Both host and guest share their journeys and insights without pretense, inviting listeners into the transformative, and sometimes challenging, realities of working for change from within and outside institutions.

For more information:
Visit inprisonwritersworkshop.org
Vote for CNN Hero of the Year: cnn.com/worldheroes