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- [00:00]
A
The sky is the limits for me now. Like, the goals are super high. The goals are never changing and I'm never going to lower them because I have a disability or because I break a bone.
- [00:14]
B
Welcome to the PM Podcast, brought to you by Ever True Studios, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost. Ryan Wilson is the founder and CEO of Team Trust Productions, one of the few disability led video production companies in the United States. Through documentaries and fundraising films created with non profit organizations across the country, Ryan and his team work to place people with disabilities at the center of their own stories as creators, leaders and narrators rather than subjects to sympathy. Ryan himself lives with osteogenesis imperfecta, or brittle bone disease, and his work is helping reshape how disability is represented in nonprofit storytelling and media. In this episode, we trace Ryan's journey from growing up with a disability that shaped his perspective on the world to building a company that dedicated itself to telling stories with authenticity, dignity and and trust.
- [01:21]
A
I think for me, I just moved to Colorado Springs like four or five years ago and we have the Winter Olympics in two weeks. So in town they have the Olympic and Paralympic Museum. They're going to light a cauldron, do a whole ceremony out of it, and somehow, some way, Jay, they want me to be the torch or a torchbearer for their ceremony. Man, what a mistake on their end. But there's something for you. I just found that out this morning.
- [01:59]
C
That's amazing. How does something like that happen?
- [02:03]
A
That's a great question. I don't really know. I got an email that they were looking for people to apply. What the heck? I applied and got a message this morning that they want me to do it. I'm not the only one. I'll be one of many, one of other athletes, but still a good opportunity.
- [02:32]
C
What does it really entail? Because I have this image of people I don't know, running or biking or all these other things that they do in order to carry some torch from Greece to wherever the, the the Olympics are. What does it really entail?
- [02:48]
A
Yeah, you're right. So this is just like microscopic event in town. So Colorado Springs is Olympic City, usa. So we have the Olympic and Paralympic Training center and then the Olympic and Paralympic Museum. So this event is put on by the museum. Basically we're going around their property, their event space, holding the torch and going from one person to the next. And then at the end, they light a Cauldron that'll be lit in honor of the Winter Olympics.
- [03:28]
C
Yeah, the Olympics are something that most of us only understand at a distance. For that matter, most professional sports are something we don't really know.
- [03:40]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [03:41]
C
Talk about your relationship to sport. When did that really begin for you?
- [03:46]
A
Oh, boy. I feel like the interview just started here. You know, sports had been huge for me, so obviously, I don't do any sports at the moment. But when I was a kid, I always wanted to be a basketball player. So Shaquille o', Neal, in my eyes, a legend, was my man growing up. So I have jerseys from every team he was on in the NBA, from the Lakers to the Celtics and every team in between. And I wanted to be the Shaq in the league, but as I grew up, I realized, well, I'm not going to be seven foot one, so, whoops. But also, just the reality is I have brittle bones. So even if I made it to the NBA miraculously, and you put me up against a guy who's £300 and I'm £60, I don't know how long I will survive. Literally, I won't make it. So, you know, I always had a connection with sports through Shaq, but anymore, I've kind of shifted that a little bit. I still look up to Shaq, but now I'm just really connected with, like, the Olympians and Paralympians on Team USA and they've, you know, become good friends and then all sorts of special things for me that just provide fuel to do more and, you know, just be bigger and better and be a better person.
- [05:36]
C
You. You skirted right by being a kid and looking up to Shaq, which, by the way, I think we all look up to Shaq, or at least the majority of human beings do.
- [05:47]
A
You're right.
- [05:48]
C
But literally. But you mentioned brittle bones, and it's brittle bone, is it?
- [05:56]
A
I don't.
- [05:57]
C
I don't know much about this syndrome disease. I don't know how it's characterized, whatever
- [06:01]
A
you want to call it, but when
- [06:03]
C
did you discover this? How did you discover this?
- [06:06]
A
Oh, gosh. Well, so the technical term is called osteogenesis and perfectus. So brittle bones. And before I was born, my parents knew something was up. I looked a little different, but we didn't know what the deal was. And so once I was born into the world kicking and screaming and also with 10 broken bones. So at that point, we kind of realized, maybe we should take a closer look at this. We don't know what's going On. But eventually, a couple months in, we met with some professional. And just by the amount of collagen in my bones, basically a strengthening material. I didn't really have it as compared to UJ or the listener. And that was a pretty good indication that I have brittle bones.
- [07:13]
C
But 10 broken bones at birth?
- [07:16]
A
Yes, sir. I was hoping for 11, but we stuck with 10.
- [07:21]
C
I'm trying to imagine as a baby, you don't know anything other than who you are, what you are, and you have very little understanding the world at all yet. But for your parents, I wonder what this was like for your mother going through this experience. Have you talked about this with her?
- [07:39]
A
For her, yeah. Things just really got deep here. Jay, man, you're asking the good questions. I like it. Bring it on. No. You know, my parents were very worried that I wouldn't survive the whole process of being born. That was a big one, because not everybody who has my disability does. And also my mom and my dad, they didn't really have much interaction with the disability community before I came into their existence. So there was a lot of learning to do, of. Okay, we already have a kid. My brother, he doesn't have a disability, but this new guy, Ryan, there's a lot going on here. He can't walk. He's always screaming. He's got 10 broken bones. What do we have to do to make this life enjoyable? Make it so he's not always breaking bones. So I think in the very early days of my being on planet Earth, it's probably very upsetting because they just didn't have all the answers. And not all of the doctors and nurses they met with were too helpful. Some of them just kind of brushed us off or did things like just not be a helpful.
- [09:22]
C
Wow. I'm now imagining what it's like for new parents when their child has some kind of condition or situation and they don't know what to do about it, and then they're not getting much good advice from anybody. And that was. I don't know when you were born, but if it. If it was during the early days of the Internet, because I'm kind of ancient, then it wasn't as if they could just go to Google and figure this out.
- [09:48]
A
Yeah. I was born August 24, 1995. Okay. Yeah. Right before the Internet.
- [09:54]
C
Yeah.
- [09:56]
A
You could not chat GPT me at that time.
- [09:59]
C
No. I have a feeling that despite how challenging that must have been for new parents, that they must have had had some kind of sense of humor or did you just develop that entirely on your own. Because even talking these few minutes in the one chance we've had before, it's not just about this. It's about all things. You seem to be able to take the world wherever it is and then just enjoy it for what it is.
- [10:24]
A
Yeah. Well, I appreciate your saying that. Yeah. My parents are very good people. They have always been committed to going above and beyond for their kids. My dad passed away four and a half years ago or so, and every day I treasure the memories we had together. And my mom still goes above and beyond to help me out. So I think from them I just learned to, I don't know, persist and stay committed on my goals and dreams. And then also just my dad had a sense of humor. I think I picked that up for the better or worse. And also the people I was around, my friends, other people with disabilities, they really changed my perspective on myself and on life in general.
- [11:27]
C
I know that sports, again, were a big part of this, your childhood. They are for a lot of kids. And you were probably imagining how you could be not just Shaq, which almost nobody can be, but whatever kind of sports kid you wanted to be. So how did you navigate that? Because you still wanted to just live the life you wanted to live.
- [11:51]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So after I realized I was not going to be Shaquille o', Neal, the next focus was, I want to be a sports announcer. The play by play guy on TV announcing Shaq making a free throw, which he never does, or doing a slam dunk. And so I actually did some of that in college at the University of Illinois. Got to be on the Big Ten Network on TV announcing games. And it was super fun and educational. But as I did it, I realized I think I'm missing something. I'm missing something meaningful. And for broadcasting, there's a lot of entertainment in there. We've got to be full of energy, keep the audience engaged, talk about all these plays in front of us. But for me, at that time, I started connecting with the wheelchair racers at the university going away.
- [13:02]
C
Had you seen that before? Had you seen wheelchair racing?
- [13:07]
A
Not really. I had seen bits and pieces of it, but I had not seen it in person. So these racers, they're in manual chairs, so they're pushing and they're doing marathons. 26.2 miles at 20 miles per hour. That's on a flat surface, downhill. I know of one guy, he's still alive. He hit 100 miles per hour going downhill in his wheelchair. Oh, our racers don't like to do that, but it's an option. So just being around them, I just became super close with these athletes because they have huge shoulders from pushing 100 miles a week on the roads, and they are living such independent lives. I'm like, man, why don't I look like that? Why don't I live like that? And so I just immersed myself in their worlds, and I heard about their stories, and the broadcasting was fun, but it didn't allow me an opportunity to tell the stories. That really struck my heart.
- [14:24]
C
What were you studying at the time?
- [14:26]
A
Journalism.
- [14:27]
C
You were. Okay, so journalism does allow for a certain amount, but it is reporting. I mean, at some level, it is recording what somebody else said versus, you know, creating a narrative. So how did you then imagine you'd be able to tell the stories differently? How did that start?
- [14:43]
A
Yeah, well, for one, with these wheelchair racers, nobody was telling their stories, and if they did, the story was focusing on their disabilities. So what they can't do, how they're paralyzed, but yet they're so inspirational. And, I mean, to a certain extent, they are inspirational, but not necessarily in that way. So for me, I wasn't focused on their disability. I was focused on who are they as human beings? How is this one person who has limited control of their hands becoming a dentist? How are all of these athletes being featured on ESPN and NBC and we never hear about them? So, yeah, I think it was just the. The perspective I have because I have a disability. And also, these racers made the big mistake of opening up their worlds to me, because then I got to see who they truly were. Like, wow, this does not need to be in a story. This is just fun, super exciting. And because they trusted me, I felt like I could do anything.
- [16:11]
C
You know, one thing that strikes me about this is that the tendency to not report or not record or not tell the story of people is huge. Like you just said, this is true of so many people, so, so many ways. But also, there's a. Isn't there a tendency to lump people together who have a, quote, disability? In other words, your situation is different from every person you were meeting. The person who wanted to be a dentist and didn't have the complete control of their hands but still want to pursue the dream, is different from the person with the big shoulders racing at 100 miles an hour down a hill? Which still terrifies me that you said that. So. But those people, whatever their disabilities might be described by in medicine or the way they conveyed it to others who didn't know medicine, they were all different from one another. There's a huge diversity within the disability community. How is it that so much of that gets ignored?
- [17:08]
A
Yeah, it's a great question. I think it comes down to understanding. There's just a lack of understanding about the disability community. Sometimes. I think when the general population hears of a person being in a wheelchair, they automatically assume they're paralyzed. I've even had that in Colorado Springs. I had somebody think I was paralyzed because I was in a chair. And they just didn't quite understand how and why I was in a chair because of brittle bones. And also, the disability community is so diverse. It is challenging to understand, per se, all the different disabilities when for me, I only can speak of the experiences of being in a wheelchair or having brittle bones. I don't know what it's like to be paralyzed or be blind. I could cover up my eyes and, you know, kind of go around without eyesight, but that does not help me understand the experience of being blind. They go through so many things that I can't even imagine, and so short and sweet. I think it's just the understanding. People don't go out of their way to learn what they need to to understand kind of the different layers of disability.
- [18:43]
C
So then as you were working your way through college or, you know, through this experience of kind of uncovering this for yourself about how you could be a different kind of storyteller, where did you go with that? How did you find an avenue to be able to tell those stories?
- [19:00]
A
Yeah, well, so initially I was a reporter for the student newspaper at the University of Illinois, and they let me focus on adaptive sports because nobody else was doing it, so easy peasy for me. But once I was done with school, there was no more student newspaper work. So initially the focus was let's do some independent filmmaking. So I started following these athletes, filming them, taking thousands of pictures, hours of footage. That was great. And that was kind of a good stepping stone. But I will tell you, when you're going down the independent filmmaking routes, man, it's tough to finance that stuff.
- [19:56]
C
Wow.
- [19:58]
A
So, yeah, I had to get creative and how I was continuing my dreams and my goals, but ended up starting my own video production company, Team Trust Productions. And that's been a good avenue to continue to tell meaningful and strong stories.
- [20:20]
C
You did that almost immediately out of school. I mean, how soon did you form your own production company?
- [20:26]
A
Yeah, after school. Right after school.
- [20:28]
C
And, you know, financing a film, a short film, a long film, whatever. Like you said, the challenge, the financing is very challenging. In fact, it'd be great to hear more about that, because that's another thing that people don't know much about. But, but. But I also want to say that financing a company, whether it's bootstrapping and finding customers, or whether it's finding somebody to give you a loan, whatever it is, that's not easy either. So. So talk about the role of finding kindred spirits to support, whether it's making a movie or whether it's, you know, a company that makes movie movies about others. What is that like?
- [21:06]
A
Yeah, well, it's probably worth mentioning what we do at Team Trust is I wouldn't say we're making too many movies per se, because the route, if we did that, would be very, very different. So what we do is we're focused on marketing videos and films. So instead of grabbing this idea and running with it, I'm talking with organizations like the Special Olympics Make a Wish. And we're looking at who is really benefiting from your organization. What kind of story do they have and how can we tell it? And so that's been a lot easier for us to find the necessary capital to run with. So we're working with all these groups like Special Olympics Make a Wedge, and they're helping us kind of bring together all the finances we need to tell their stories. So I'm not really looking at too many investors right now. One day at a time, Jay. We'll get there. You can be an investor if you want, but there is a lot of rejection, a lot of persistence. Every day people are like, no, I don't want to pay for that. Don't call me again. Okay, I'll call you tomorrow. So it's just getting creative.
- [22:45]
C
Yeah. And that's an experience that your nonprofit clients understand themselves very well. Take us back to the first client. Who was that? How did you meet up with them? How did you help them to understand that you were going to be able to help them to tell a story in a way that's going to be meaningful for them in terms of not just conveying what they do and why it's important, but also to raise revenue.
- [23:08]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So I will bring you back to 2018. Before I had a mustache, I looked about 10 years younger. So this we did. At the time, I was doing some freelance writing for the International Paralympic Committee. They're based out of Bonn, Germany. And my focus for riding was para Alpine skiing. And as I interviewed athletes with disabilities who are world class skiers, I started talking with more and more skiers who are visually impaired or blind. And I'M like, how do you go down a ski slope at 60 mph without being able to see anything? They have a guide, and this guide is six feet in front of them. They're not tethered together, but they're communicating via Bluetooth headset. The guide is telling them, left, right, watch out for this icy patch, so on and so forth. And so I heard that story from a writing standpoint and I told it in an article. Well, like, you gotta be able to see that. No amount of writing from me will be able to accurately capture that story. So I proposed to the International Paralympic Committee do a video. And at the time I was still finishing up my schoolwork at the University of Illinois, so I still had that tied to them. And so the University of Illinois was able to offer some grant money for us to drive from Champaign, Illinois in the middle of the state to Winter Park, Colorado, up in the mountains. Very long drive. But once we had everything together, the video was all done and super fun. And it was for the National Sports center for the Disabled. So it helped them raise more money, expand their awareness. But there are all sorts of unique stories from that point on to now of how we're finding new clients and types of stories we're telling. There is a lot of competition out there for video, that's for sure, but we're a little different. Where else can you get me or my perspective, or where else can you get such passion and heart that team trust brings?
- [26:16]
C
So how many clients now have you, have you worked with doing this kind of thing? Nonprofit clients, I should say.
- [26:22]
A
Yeah, well, we're still pretty small. We're quickly growing, but probably around 20, and that's in about a few years now. But we have a lot of conversations going on right now.
- [26:38]
C
I'm curious what the reaction was like, especially that first video that you described, not only from the client, but from the people who were recorded in it. Because their experience, first of all, they are the athletes and it's their story. So that's really important, I'm sure, to them to have their story told in a way that they thought was meaningful and accurate, but also they're not experiencing in the same way that sighted audiences do. So what kind of reaction did you get first from the client, but then especially from the athletes?
- [27:13]
A
Yeah, well, I mean, all around the athletes loved it because like we've talked about, nobody else was telling their stories. We interviewed, I think it was six or eight athletes in three days. Pretty action packed. And they really appreciated how we have the disability angle. I was coming from the disability community. I'm not just a regular journalist or reporter asking you to tell me all about your eyesight and how you can't see. I just want to find out how you ski down that mountain at 60 miles per hour. Like, tell me about the trust that's required. That was the story. That's why I recall Team Trust from that video. So it was, tell me about the trust. What does it feel like? How do you know it's there? What does that trust enable you to do? So they love the questions. It was no pushback there. And when the video was done, we, we wanted to make sure that the people in the video could experience it the same way everybody else did. So we added captions and we added necessary audio descriptions where we could. Thankfully, the footage was pretty straightforward. It was really just footage of people skiing down mountain in Winter Park. So any audio description was pretty easy to do, but all around good feedback from the video. I'd love to do it again. I'd love to go up to Winter park and repeat that if I could. But there are so many stories out there.
- [29:08]
C
Well, you've probably seen some consistency in which kinds of questions enable people to really, you know, be themselves on camera or in audio. And you just mentioned that trust question. It's so important. It's at the heart of so many things that, that I know and the discussions I have with people. What kinds of other questions have you found help to get to the heart of who a person is and why they do what they do?
- [29:35]
A
Yeah, I mean, story based questions, open ended questions. You're kind of asking me these questions right now, but a lot of times it's tell me a story of when this happened or how did that make you feel? Yeah, there's so many different layers to a human being. It's fun to explore. But yeah, I'm learning every day on how to ask better questions. But I think for our videos it really helps if we can look at feelings and stories and meaning, how you interpret scenarios and situations. Yeah. And just being a good listener, if it seems as if I don't care or I'm on my phone while I'm asking questions, the person on the receiving end of my questions, they don't care either. That's going to be a quick interview. So, yeah, it's just showing I care.
- [30:40]
C
So what kinds of clients, what kinds of people are you looking to tell the stories of and with going forward?
- [30:51]
A
Yeah, I mean, like I said, we've worked with Special Olympics and make a Wish and all these groups that are focused on health and wellness and also providing sports and different programming like that. So ideally, I mean, there are tons of options out there. Every organization has their own story, and there are so many stories in there of how they made a difference. So really, for us, it's been super beneficial to tap in the groups that are hosting, you know, bigger events. They're pretty easy to do. We have all these people grouped together for your events. If we can interview a few of them, get their stories, get some good footage. And that video, that one video, it's done right, could change everything for you. My skiing video that I did in 2018 changed everything. And I continue to talk about it almost nine years later, eight years later.
- [32:13]
C
So is there a story that's really, I don't know, really hit you, hit your heart that means something that sticks with you?
- [32:22]
A
Oh, they all do in their own way. The seeing video is one just because it was so personal. Another one we did a couple years ago was we were working with this group out of Virginia, Arlington, Virginia area, and they're trying to finance or pay for a wheelchair accessible van. And this family needed a van so the daughter could stay independent, so she could continue to experience, you know, the world, to go to the park and to do fun things. But those wheelchair accessible vans, wow, they're expensive. So this family puts $80,000 on loan just to buy that van. And we had to get that money for them. There was no, like, alternative. You either get the money and they have the van or you don't get the money. And this very nice woman, great advocate for the disability community. There's just so much independence. So I can just always relate to that story because I know how critical a van is to being able to do things. But because it's so expensive, it's really hard for anybody in a wheelchair to get around like, the way they want to. My parents, you know, really had to make some magic happen to buy their own van. But it's been very, very helpful. And so I, I always think about that story of, you know, it's. This is not a video. Like, this is more than a video. This is a story that's driving change. So that one, I want to head home.
- [34:27]
C
You know, it strikes me that you're doing this for others and you're doing it because you're interested in the stories and you think they need to be told. Have you had the opportunity to tell your story in that same way? Has somebody interviewed you in that way?
- [34:43]
A
Well, kind of. You have right now. So I think the second or third video we did was actually on me, and that wasn't the goal. So five years ago or so, we. I started Team Trust and I was just grinding 247 and realized that it's not healthy to do that. You should not work 24 7. And I did, and I fell out of my wheelchair. Not recommended either. So broke three bones, no big deal, almost died. It's all good. So in my recovery, I interacted with many nurses and occupational therapists, physical therapists who went to Lincoln Land Community College. And that's where I went to school before I went to the University of Illinois. So from my hospital room, I pitched a story to Lincoln Land Community College of hey, I'm stuck in the hospital right now. I'm an alum. A lot of your alumni helped me out right now. And I also know you're expanding your nursing program. I see a connection here. And from the hospital bed and got a deal done. So that video was partially about me, of what happened, how did we end up in this situation? And we kind of tied it into how Lincoln Land saved my life and all these good things. So, yes, there. There was an interview of me in there. There's some very attractive clips of me doing physical therapy and occupational therapy with a brace on my arm and a sling on. But, yeah, that was. That was part of my story.
- [36:54]
C
I'm trying to remember now. It's something like 62 breaks or something that you've had.
- [36:59]
A
Yeah, I don't even know. I'm losing track. But, yeah, last I thought was like 60ish. You might be right. 62, I don't really know. I don't keep track. I mean, some people with my disability, they've broken hundreds of bones. That's a lot. It's not a competition at that point.
- [37:20]
C
It's not when you want to win. I'm so.
- [37:24]
A
You're right. You're right. No, I don't want to win that.
- [37:28]
C
No, I'm good with 60 and to a degree. I'm sure that this has forced you to be adaptable in a way that people who don't have this probably don't. I mean, I don't mean just falling out of a chair kind of adaptability, but the way you probably approach a lot of things.
- [37:47]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Transportation is one. Like, if I don't have a van, how do I get around, for example? I'll give you a recent example. I was in Scottsdale, Arizona, just a couple weeks ago. Like, I don't Have a van there. I didn't have anybody with me, so I gotta find transportation and there are not many wheelchair accessible rides in that town. So you have to get creative. You gotta work with people and finding solutions that make sense for all parties. So I'm always adapting, I'm always learning. I never used to live like on my own. I always had some caretaker with me, making sure I didn't fall, making sure I could, you know, get up in the morning safely and, you know, end my day safely and all that stuff. But during the pandemic, Jay, I got rid of all those caretakers, wiped them out. No longer on my staff because I don't have a staff, it's just me. So, yeah, I'm always learning of what's good for me, what's not good for me, how do I adapt? Like this situation is clearly not built for me. This building is not constructed for a wheelchair user. But what can I do to make it work? And that's always a fun little game I have. It's not always fun, but it's a good game.
- [39:25]
C
Well, and I'm thinking that that adaptation, that approach to just adapting to whatever your environment is, must also be a matter of adapting. Not in any way diminishing, but adapting your dreams. Right. Because if you wanted to be a basketball player when you were a kid, ultimately this wasn't about brittle bones. I guess it was more about not being 300 pounds and, and really in seven feet, whatever he is tall. So you adapted to journalism and then you adapted and redreamed and made your own media company. Where do you see this going next? What do you imagine for Ryan Wilson 20 or 30 years from now?
- [40:07]
A
The sky is the limits for me now. The goals are super high. The goals are never changing and I'm never going to lower them because I have a disability or because I break a bone. Like that's just going to happen. So for us, I mean, I want to continue to expand our impacts in the non profit world. That's been a special area for us. It's been very meaningful, made a lot of difference, raised a lot of money for our clients, but also kind of tapping into other industries where my perspective and lived experience can be valuable to them and just expanding our reach overall. So I think right now we've had, we have teams in 21 states. So if we can expand to 50 and go outside of the US and beyond, why not? So there's no limits.
- [41:13]
B
Well, that's it for this episode of the PM podcast. You can learn more about Ryan's work at teamtrustproductions.com Our thanks to our sponsor, Evertrue, the leader in donor engagement and fundraising intelligence, helping nonprofits find, engage and inspire their supporters. Our producer is Jack Frost, and our theme music is Moving Out, Moving in by Jay Taylor, provided courtesy of Epidemic Sound. If you found this conversation valuable, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And don't forget to check out our sister shows, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Raise, all a part of the Philanthropy Mastermind series. Until next time, I'm Jay Frost.
- [41:54]
C
Thanks for joining me.