The PM Podcast: "Until We Get It Right: A Conversation with Christy Coleman"

Podcast: The PM Podcast
Episode: Until We Get It Right: A Conversation with Christy Coleman
Host: Jay Frost
Date: October 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with Christy Coleman, a renowned museum leader and history advocate, currently Executive Director of the Jamestown Yorktown Foundation. The discussion traces Coleman’s journey from her upbringing in Williamsburg, VA, through her pioneering work at major cultural institutions, to her ongoing mission to transform how American history—particularly the hardest and most contested narratives of enslavement and race—is interpreted and shared with the public.

The conversation is candid, personal, and wide-ranging, exploring themes of resilience, identity, the burden and gift of historic truth-telling, and the persistent need for honest storytelling in museums as a means for healing and national understanding.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Formative Years: Roots in Williamsburg and Early Encounters with History

• Family Move & Cultural Immersion (02:03–05:00)

  • Coleman describes moving from Florida to Williamsburg at age nine when her father became sous chef at the Williamsburg Inn.
  • Her parents, part of the Civil Rights generation, encouraged exploration of Black poets and historical figures, instilling agency and a broadened sense of “American” identity.
  • "History was never something that was static to me until actually in a classroom." (05:00)

• Museum Upbringing & Local Connections (05:00–06:30)

  • Frequented D.C. museums; in Williamsburg, living history felt tangible, real, and part of daily community life.
  • Had special access to tradesmen at Colonial Williamsburg, who were significant Black figures in her neighborhood and church.

2. Navigating Education and Early Activism

• Educating Teachers and Facing Bias (06:33–11:00)

  • Encountered positive and negative teachers—sometimes accused of cheating due to advanced knowledge, sometimes nurtured to excel.
  • Became a class leader, athlete, and activist, inspired by her parents’ expectations.

• College Activism and Theater at William & Mary (11:41–15:50)

  • Became active in anti-apartheid protests, organizing sit-ins for divestment from South Africa.
  • Theater remained a passion; began working in Colonial Williamsburg’s living history program as a teen, taking on challenging roles.

  “We were…protesting for divestiture from South Africa… Because of apartheid.” – Christy Coleman (11:41)

3. The Power and Complexity of Portraying Enslaved Narratives

• Portrayal of Rebecca, an Enslaved Child (15:54–24:07)

  • Describes deeply researched, unscripted character development—emphasizing agency, strategic educational purpose, and challenging myths of American slavery.
  • Faced mixed reactions: pride from parents, discomfort from peers, but strong conviction in necessity of telling these stories.
  • Felt pride in humanizing these histories and in correcting visitor assumptions about race and mastery in colonial trade roles.

• Handling Racism and Public Reception (24:32–29:33)

  • Endured racist and sexist comments in character, but developed strategies to respond powerfully and maintain personal strength.
  • The emotional toll was sometimes heavy, but mostly, the work was rewarding and transformative for both Coleman and visitors.

  “It was never a burden... I was giving voice to something.” – Christy Coleman (24:32)

4. Artistry and Struggle in Performance and Beyond

• Acting, Directing, and Barriers in Media (29:04–36:27)

  • Worked in TV and advertisements, but regularly confronted typecasting and narrow expectations for Black performers.
  • Recounts a pivotal moment being told she didn’t “sound black enough” for a national bank ad—her sharp, defiant comeback marked a turning point toward control of narrative as a writer and director.

  “She said: ‘She just doesn’t sound black enough.’... I said, ‘You don’t sound like a Jew to me.’... I got fired from that gig.” – Christy Coleman (34:40)

5. Education at an HBCU and Museum Leadership Formation

• Return to School & Designing Her Own Program at Hampton (36:36–41:37)

  • Switched from William & Mary, choosing Hampton University (an HBCU) for freedom to craft an interdisciplinary museum-focused degree.
  • Hampton’s nurturing, holistic environment stood in stark contrast to prior experiences at majority-white institutions.

• Finding Inspiration in Dr. Bernice Reagan and Early Program Development (41:48–52:05)

  • Inspired by figures who combined artistry and education, she began writing, producing, and directing new historical dramas at Colonial Williamsburg.
  • Her play “Affairs of the Heart” broke silences around race, power, and gender in history, becoming a longstanding sold-out success.

6. Breaking New Ground: Slave Auction Enactment

• Conception and Execution of “The Estate Sale” (59:39–69:28)

  • Led first-ever public reenactment of a slave auction at Colonial Williamsburg, placing it at the actual site of revolutionary debates about freedom.
  • Met with protests and national controversy—managed with transparency, trust in her team, and community engagement.
  • The emotional cost: developed agoraphobia due to intense scrutiny and pressure, requiring therapy.

  “We did that because we thought it was important…It changed the game for the field, and I am very proud of that.” – Christy Coleman (68:00)

7. The Toll and Responsibility of Truth-telling

• Personal Cost and Burden (69:28–73:05)

  • Discusses emotional and psychological fallout—including panic attacks—but reiterates the necessity and impact.
  • Reflected on shifting from lone burden-bearer to being among allies, as the national conversation broadened.

  "Everyone deserves truth... There is a lack of...honor of character, honor of empathy. Those are the kind of things that are consistently in my head as I go about my work." – Christy Coleman (115:28)

8. Shifting Narratives: Leadership at Major Museums

• Redefining the Charles H. Wright Museum in Detroit (78:40–89:05)

  • Balanced calls to focus on Black achievement with commitment to truth-telling about hardship and resistance.
  • Led a $43M campaign, increased membership fourfold, and expanded the museum's core exhibit and endowment.
  • Built broad community ownership by connecting resilience and struggle to achievement.

• Returning to Virginia and Taking on the American Civil War Museum (93:27–104:27)

  • Orchestrated merger of the American Civil War Center and Museum of the Confederacy, confronting difficult, diverging Civil War narratives.
  • Tackled the “Lost Cause” myth head-on, thematically integrating marginalized stories into the museum’s heart.
  • Managed expected donor losses, but saw long-term growth as transparency and multifaceted storytelling attracted new support.
  • Prioritized a diverse, representative staff, proud that “immediately the people that we had on the front door let people know this was someplace different.”

9. Leading Jamestown-Yorktown Foundation

• Current Work & Broader Historical Narrative (110:27–120:07)

  • Focused on weaving together Indigenous, African, and European narratives, challenging the “melting pot” myth.
  • Pursues greater community ownership—engaging with descendant and Indigenous communities for authentic, nuanced storytelling.
  • Frustrated by the persistence of debates over the validity of telling hard truths, but committed to seeing the work through.

  "I guess we'll keep doing it until we get it right and people understand that it's not threatening at all, that it is actually an empowering thing to be able to cleanly look at something and heal from it." – Christy Coleman (115:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On rethinking American narratives:
  “I understood really early that America's story was my story… I had equal right to the legacies of the United States, despite the historical truths of the degradation or disenfranchisement.” (05:00)

• On confronting bigotry in role:
  “Sir, there are laws against molesting another man's property.” – Christy Coleman, as character in Colonial Williamsburg, powerfully flipping a sexist, racist question (24:32)

• On pushing boundaries in museum programming:
  “Why are we still having this conversation…? And I guess we'll keep doing it until we get it right and people understand that it’s not threatening at all, that it is actually an empowering thing…” (115:28)

• On belonging in museums:
  “How do you create belonging? How do you create spaces where people say not only that I belong here, but you belong here? Because that's when anger starts going away. Everyone has value. Everyone's story has impact, if you're willing to hear it.” (close to 120:00)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Early Life & Family Influences: 02:00–06:30
• College Activism & Anti-Apartheid Protests: 11:41–13:38
• First Theater Role Portraying Enslaved Person: 15:54–29:33
• "Not Black Enough" Ad Experience: 32:40–36:27
• Hampton University and Designing Her Museum Career: 36:36–41:37
• Writing & Producing “Affairs of the Heart”: 41:48–53:16
• "The Estate Sale" Slave Auction Reenactment: 59:39–69:28
• Personal Cost and Aftermath of the Auction: 69:28–73:05
• Reframing the Charles Wright Museum: 89:05–94:43
• Merging the Civil War Museums: 94:48–104:33
• Integrating Lost Cause and New Civil War Narratives: 99:29–104:55
• Leadership and Representation: 109:19–110:27
• Jamestown Yorktown Foundation and Founding Myths: 110:27–120:07
• Closing Reflections on Truth-telling and Belonging: 115:28–120:07

Summary Reflection

Christy Coleman’s career embodies a fearless willingness to confront historical discomfort for public good. Through groundbreaking programming, courageous leadership, personal sacrifice, and a deep commitment to community inclusion, she has reshaped the landscape of American public history.

Her story, as shared in this episode, is one of resilience, innovation, and deeply principled insistence—on telling the story "until we get it right." This conversation is essential listening for anyone passionate about honest history, social change, and the ongoing work of healing the American narrative.