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- [00:00]
Don Williams
We believed that if God changed us, that he can change all of those men and women that we knew that was sitting behind the wall, but they just needed somebody to come tell them and help them along the way on that journey. That's what we, we believe that, that their future could be greater than their past. We believe that with our whole, with the whole fiber of our being, because it happen.
- [00:32]
Jay Frost
Welcome to the Philanthropy Masterminds podcast brought to you by Donor Search, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost. The US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. With approximately 1.9 million people currently held in federal and state prisons and local jails. 95% of those incarcerated today will be released, but 70% are likely to return to the system. However, for participants in Jumpstart, an innovative organization in South Carolina, the recidivism rate is just 4%. Today we speak with Don Williams, one of Jumpstart's founders, about his journey from incarceration to freedom. The work they do to help others rebuild their lives and their plan to make this path available to others.
- [01:22]
Unknown
You had described yourself early on in your life as a menace and a two time loser. And that sounds like a different person. Can you tell me about that person?
- [01:34]
Don Williams
Yeah. So my, my life, the. I grew up in a single, single parent home. I'm the youngest of five. And when my just growing up, my, my sister, I had three sisters and a brother. So my brother and two of my sisters had, you know, they were grown, gone and on their own, so they had moved on out. So left at home was myself and my other sister, seven years my senior. Right. So when she went off to college, you know, they kind of left me in my own terms, as the man of the house, so to speak, because my daddy died when I was like six months old. So I never, you know, I never knew him. I just remember my mama. So I was probably in junior high at that particular time. So after schools, you know, I knew that my mama worked two jobs. She get off from one job and from eight, that she worked from eight to five. And then she had a part time job that she worked, you know, until like nine. So I'm there in afternoons by myself and I, you know, if the phone rang, I had to pick it up. Usually when my sister was there, she, she was the one that was kind of, I guess, playing the gatekeeper pretty much. So now here I am, 14 years old and I'm hearing these bill collectors calling and saying that if my mama don't pay this, they come in to take that. And I mean, very harsh. And not only that, but coming by the house and knocking on, you know, bam, bamming on the door, and, you know, I'm telling them she's not there, and they giving me these notes. And I never forget. I used to just leave the notes where the mail was, right there on the table, you know, and never forget, Jay. One. One evening I came in, and my mama was sitting on the edge of her bed with all those envelopes and nasty notes in her. In her. In her hand or sitting on the side of the bed, you know, just weeping. And it was at that point that I realized that we have enough to do what we needed to do. And that's why my mama works so much. And, you know, it just like. It hit me like the Liberty Bell that we was poor, you know, but we had everything we need. So poor could be a strong word, you know, but we didn't have enough. And so, you know, the neighborhood that I grew up in, it was opportunity to do the right thing, but it was also opportunity to get into some mischief. And I. I call myself, you know, getting out and trying to help my mama pay those bills, unbeknownst to her. So I started selling drugs there in the neighborhood. And, you know, I was able to get the bill collectors to stop calling, because I knew who they were. So I figured out a way to get the money to them, to where, you know, it was. Wasn't as much stress. And I laugh at this now, but I said that I was able to get the bill collectors to stop calling. But the police start coming because I. Because I was getting into. Getting into stuff. And, you know, even beyond that, I began to allow that lifestyle to shape my identity, so to speak. So from. So that was around about 14. And then when I was in the 11th grade, my mama had contracted cancer. It was 1988. And I'll never forget coming home from school one day and she showed me this knot that she had on her leg and told me that it was cancer and that the doctors was going to be able to cut it off and it was going to be fine. So the doctors did. But, um, I thought that that was going to be the stopping point for me, that I would get out of the life and just, you know. But I didn't. I didn't listen. So I. I kept on doing what I was doing. And finally I graduated high school in the 12th grade and the cancer had spread. You know, now my mama was having to go up to Duke University for chemotherapy. So what I did in order not to be Add more stress to her life, my sister, who was seven years my senior, was what. She was living in Columbia at the time, working for the Department of Juvenile Justice. So I said, well, I'm gonna go down here, give me a fresh start and, you know, do right. So I did for a while and I stayed down there for about two years and I worked at a bank called cns, which eventually evolved until bank of America now what we see now. But I worked in a. Called Lockbox, where we process checks in the evening times. And it was a bunch of college students that. That worked there. So at. Right after high school, I had had my first child. So I. After getting down to Columbia and being, you know, being down there, it was like, man, I want to be back home closer to my. To my daughter. So I moved back. I moved back home because, you know, I would get her on the weekends or her mama would come down. But it was. It wasn't just like being a present, right? And I know what it's like to be without a father figure because I live that right. So I moved back to Spartanburg and. But the job opportunities wasn't like they were in Columbia. So I had a little bit of money that I had saved up and. And then I think I had an income tax check or something that I had gotten. So I. There was no other opportunity. So I went back to that old identity and took my money and invested it in marijuana and began to say for the next 10 years, began to sell marijuana very heavily throughout the Southeast. And I Finally, in 95, I moved to Charlotte. At this point in time, I had two kids. And I wind up in 99 after my third child was born. 98. My third. No, in 99 she was born, but 98, I went to prison in. In Charlotte, North Carolina, for possession with intent to distribute. And I got out in 2000. And at that point I started a janitorial service and wind up moving back to Spartanburg in order to gain more contracts. At this point in time, I was married to my wife that I have, you know, that I have now, and she's the mother of my children. So move back to move back to Spartanburg and. Because I was getting more opportunities here than I was in Charlotte. And about. Funny thing, about two years later, me and my wife, we looking at the news like we normally do every night, and they had a segment on there About Spartanburg Most Wanted. Well, come to find out, my picture showed up and I was the feature that night of Spartanburg's Most Wanted. They had been looking for me since 1997, and it's 2002 now. I've gotten my life on track. Two years. You know, I've got contracts with the YMCA, all of the Dollar General Stores. So everybody has seen that. Plus, it's a reward out for me, right? So here I am, you know, wondering. You know, I've already been to prison one time. I've gotten out, and I've cleaned my life up. So now here I am on my way back to prison again. So it was during this time when I was in prison, when I went in 2002, is when I was incarcerated with my brother.
- [09:42]
Unknown
Yes. Now, you. You talked about your sister, but not a lot about your brother. And there's one more part to that story, is there, isn't there, that you heard, you saw your face there featured on the news, but you turned yourself in.
- [09:59]
Don Williams
Yeah. Now, it wasn't immediately, because I had only been doing the right thing for about two years, so I still had a lot of the old man in me, so I had to really think that thing through and say, hey, am I gonna go turn myself in and do the right thing and continue along this path that I'm on, or are they gonna have to catch me if they can? You know? And that's kind of where I was at at that point. And at this particular time now, me and my wife, we have four kids, right? So.
- [10:39]
Unknown
So there's a lot of responsibility at home. And I guess the risk is if you do, as you said, the right thing, then you're also posing a risk to the family because you're not there to support them.
- [10:50]
Don Williams
Exactly. Exactly. So, no, I take that back, because in 2002, when I went, we were at child number five. We have seven. So we was a number five then. Okay? So I go, and after a couple of days, I turn myself in, and I talked to all my employees that I had that was working with me managing. Managing the buildings. And, I mean, I was flat out honest with them and told them what was going on, because I'm sure they saw it on the news. So I said, man, I'm gonna really need y'all to, you know, just hold it down. I was gonna have to do a year, and I said, I'm gonna, you know, really need y'all to hold it down and help my wife, you know, with the thing, you know, with whatever supplies Y'all need all of that? I got all of that set up so that I could go and go and do my time. Well, you remember I was telling you about my brother that old, that overdose? Okay, so the. When he was incarcerated on that traffic violation, I was incarcerated as well. So we wind up getting shipped to the Department of Corrections together. And, and we didn't even know that each other was locked up. We bumped into each other at the county jail when it was time to get shipped off to the Department of Corrections. So we wind up being in the same dorm while we were, while we was away. And. And then when he got out, his, his employer was supposed to hold his job for him because he had six months, he was only gonna have to do four and a half. Four or four and a half. So the employer told him, say, hey man, you can take a leave of absence, come right back, pick up where you left off. So every day, I spent every day with my brother. So I knew what his goals and dreams and aspirations were because we were incarcerated together just on separate, separate charges. And so when he got out, I got one letter from him and he was just telling me he was getting back situated. And then about a week, maybe about two weeks after that, he got out in January. So maybe about two weeks after that, I got a notice to go up to the front office there at the prison. So I'm just thinking that, yeah, I'm getting out in about a month or so, so they gonna have me sign my release paperwork and all of that. Well, they directed me to the chaplain's office. And when I got to the chaplain's office, they gave me a phone number. It was my brother's phone number. And so when I called his house, his sister in law answered the phone and she just told me that her brother, which was my brother's wife, had found him dead that morning. And she just kind of left it at that. And she was just like, I just wanted to let you know, you know, what had happened. So of course, man, I'm torn up because these last four months I've been with my brother every day, and he's only been gone from the institution for about three weeks, you see what I'm saying at this particular time. So later on I got back to my dorm and they had had mail call while I was up at the chaplain's office. And when I walked in my room, there was a letter on my bed from my brother. So can you imagine you just found out less than an hour ago that your brother is deceased. And then you get back to your room, and it's a letter on your bed from that deceased brother. So I opened the letter up, and it was dated on the day that he overdosed. And it was in that letter that he explained to me everything that had happened with the employer, and just that he was just depressed. He 49 years old, been to prison four times. How in the world was he gonna start over? And, you know, I, I, I was trying to put two and two together. So after, after I read that letter and kind of just really took some time to, to first cry and, you know, just kind of pray my way through what I was experiencing. Because the last time that I was incarcerated, when I was in Charlotte, right before I got out, my mama passed away, right? So I go and use the phone, and I call my sister, and she breaks the news to me about my brother. And she told me, you know, the ugly truth that she said I was the first on the scene. And when ems, they had to cut the bathroom door out because his body was wedged up against the bathroom door, that he still had the. The needle in his arm and the belt around his arm. And, you know, when she broke that news to me, I knew that something had to change. And I didn't know what that change was, but I knew that I needed to do something. So I had about a month and a half left on my sentence. And it was. It was just like almost like an audible voice, Jay, like me and you talking. That. That spoke to me, and I know it was nothing but God that spoke to me to say, you need to educate employers. And now at this time, I had been in business for a couple of years, so I knew, you know, how to go through an interview process with a potential employee. But I have another edge now because I need to advocate for individuals like my brother that need that second chance. And it was at that. That moment that I committed to, yes, my brother fell through the cracks. But as long as I'm alive, I'll never let another man or woman have to experience this, of trying their best to get their life together, get their life together, only to have it the rug snatched out from under them by an employer. So I got out in March of 2004. By April of 2005, I was knocking on doors teaching employment readiness. I still had my business teaching employment readiness with different organizations that serve men and women that was coming out of prison. And that was, like I said, that was in 2000, 2004, because they wouldn't allow me to go back into the South Carolina Department of corrections for 3 years because I was a newly released inmate. So I couldn't take my program back inside of Department of corrections until 2007. And so what I did, man, just to stay busy, I knocked on doors, I went and talked to employees, I shared my brother's story and just encouraged them to be socially responsible for the men and women that's returning back to, to our community who need second chances. Those that now everybody that come back don't always want to do the right thing, but for that percentage that does, then I was trying to encourage every employer that I could get in front of to at least think about giving an individual a second chance. When you, when, when they have that box on the application, have you ever been convicted of a felony?
- [18:35]
Unknown
And I want to ask you about that, okay? For people who are not familiar with, with what it's like to be incarcerated and then to be released and to try and find work, your situation was a little different because you had built a business before you went back and gave yourself up, went back and served your term. But then, as you say, you could return to your business for other people who are out, like your brother, and relying on the employment of others. First of all, what's the barrier to trying to find a job?
- [19:13]
Don Williams
I would say in 2024 is much easier than it was back in 2004. Up until about 2012, there was a lot of policies that, that companies have in place that automatically, if you have a felony or an arrest on your background that you, that you know, your application is automatically kicked out of the system. Now that could be because of a wide range of reasons. Maybe they had a bad experience with somebody that they tried to give an opportunity to, and that just killed it for everybody. So that's, that's one of the barriers is employers wasn't educated, I would say. And, you know, then they have their. They have their policies that they have to abide by. One of the other barriers for those individuals is when you get out from incarceration, at least in South Carolina, you only have a prison id. So another barrier would be getting your Social Security card, your birth certificate, just so that you can go to DMV to get a state identification. So that's another barrier. And then the third barrier is if you've burned bridges with, with family members before you went to prison, then when you get out, you have to, you have to find some place to stay. And there's no place that I know of, and if it is, I would have been Staying there that you can stay for free outside of family. So without income coming in, then you. You don't have a place to stay. And if you don't have a place to stay, then you kind of drift off into the. Into the homeless community and. And after two or three days of being hungry and nobody giving you an opportunity, it's sad to say, but individuals go into survival mode and they go back, revert back to what they know best, and eventually it lands them back in. In some correctional institution where at least they know they have three meals and a roof over their head.
- [21:41]
Unknown
And in your brother's case, he was already battling, I guess, for a while, addiction, right?
- [21:46]
Don Williams
Yes, yes.
- [21:47]
Unknown
He.
- [21:47]
Don Williams
At this particular time, he had been clean for eight years and he was married. Him and his wife had been married a little over 10 years. And at this particular time, so every other time that he had went to prison and gotten out, he had to start from scratch, you know, either come back to my mama's house and stay or go stay at a boarding house. Something that was not giving him a fresh start, you know, some type of barrier that was not giving him that fresh start to re. Enter society like what we do at jump start now. So this time he had his wife to go back home to. He had, you know, a place to stay. He had vehicle, everything that he needed to, you know, re. Enter successfully back into society, even the employment. And when that was pulled out from under the rug, everything crumbled from there.
- [22:45]
Unknown
And that was for a traffic conviction he had.
- [22:49]
Don Williams
So my brother was in the process. You know, when he was in active addiction, he had a lot of driving under suspensions, you know, so he was working through that. And his wife would take him to work every morning, but this particular morning, she had to go to work before he did. So he said, well, I'll drop you off at work and I'm gonna drive to work, and then I'll. I'll come back and get you, and then you can drive us home. Well, an officer that saw him at the traffic light, that knew him from when he was in active addiction, ran the license plate and realized that my brother didn't have, you know, that his driver's license was still suspended, not paying attention to how many tickets he had already paid off, you know, and he still has some more to go, pulled him over, took him to jail for driving under suspension. He gets out and he goes to court and whatever the fine was for that day, my brother had half of the money. And he told the judge, he said, can I give you the money that I have today, and I get paid from my job in a couple of days, and I can bring the rest back to you, or I can bring it all to you, you know, Friday when I get paid. And the judge said, nope, because he shouldn't have been. He was a habitual traffic offender and he shouldn't have been behind the wheel of the car and gave him six months.
- [24:19]
Unknown
And so that sentence was almost, almost like a, like a death sentence.
- [24:27]
Don Williams
That's what, that's exactly what it was. Because when he got out and that, and called that employee to say, hey, I know I told y'all that I could come back to work two weeks after getting out. I've got all my affairs in order. I can go ahead and get started next week. When they told him that they had to fill his position then, my brother had never dealt with anything like that in his sobriety, you see what I'm saying? So all he knew was to self medicate and it just happened to kill him because he hadn't self medicated in, in eight years. And the drugs on the street had changed you again.
- [25:14]
Unknown
Now, going back to your life at that point, you'd lost your mother.
- [25:19]
Don Williams
Yes.
- [25:19]
Unknown
You'd lost, you just lost your brother. Just discovered that you were out there making, you know, running your business. You're out there also knocking on doors, trying to make employers aware of some of these things that you had seen yourself in your own family and I'm sure knew because you were around other folks who were incarcerated.
- [25:42]
Don Williams
Yeah.
- [25:42]
Unknown
So how did you go from that to jumpstart? How did you make the journey from just having the grit to do it on your own to joining with other people and forming a program so that no one else fell between the cracks?
- [25:58]
Don Williams
That's a great question. So at the, you know, I told you I had to wait three years before I could go back into the South Carolina Department of Corrections. So during that time, like I said, I built relationships in the community. I did employment readiness for the Federal Bureau of Prisons for individuals coming back to our community. And when it was time for me to go where I was, when I was eligible to apply for the department, South Carolina Department of Corrections, I was on the phone with, with one the, the state chaplain, the chaplain that was over all of the other chaplains and all of the other institutions. So I was telling him about the employment readiness Program and how I wanted to prepare, you know, men and women that was coming out. And he said, I've got another guy that's doing Something similar. But he's doing life skills training and he's down in Aiken, South Carolina. Aiken, South Carolina is about two hours away from me. Two hours? Yeah, about two, two and a half hours away from me. So he gave me the gentleman's phone number and I called him. And he had also been incarcerated himself. He had gotten out like a year before I did. And he was working down in Aiken and he was going inside the prisons during the day doing his life skill class and then at night he delivered pizzas for Papa John's. So he told me, he said, hey man, I'm gonna be in Columbia. Which was like a halfway point between me and him. And he told me that he was going to be in what day he was going to be in Colombia. He said, and we having a big meeting. A bunch of individuals that's been incarcerated that's now out, that's trying to bring social change, you know, in, in our communities we meet once a month. Won't you come and join our meeting and see what we all about? So that was my first time meeting him there at that meeting. And then I met other individuals from across the state that, that had served time and in their own, using their own gifts and talents, trying to make a, make a change in their area. So me and this gentleman, man, we hooked up and we hit it off like we have known each other for years. So with my janitorial service, I'll. Most of my work was done at nighttime and by him delivering pizzas, most of his work was done at night time. So our daytimes was free. So I tell you man, at we'll work at night and we might be on the phone with each other while we are out working at night. And I may come home and sleep for three or four hours, but you can rest assure that by 10 o'clock that next morning that me and him is meeting up at some prison anywhere in South Carolina, wherever, you know, because we had the volunteer status and we was in some chaplain's chapel spread sharing hope to the men and women that was, that was behind the wall to let them know, man, we was just sitting those, those same spots that you sitting in. And I'm telling you it's hope after this you don't have to, you know, think that you have to go back to doing what you did to get here. It's opportunity out there. So we began to do that. And he introduced me to a guy that did time with him, that lived in the same town I live in. So we all Got together with our wives by this time, it's 2008, Jay. And we've been running across the state for a whole year. And so me, him, the other gentleman, and all of our wives we met at, met on his, on his screened in back porch, just over a grill, grilling some chicken breasts and asparagus, just dreaming of what would it look like if we can make an impact on the recidivism rate in South Carolina? And we in our minds, just knowing all of the people that we've encountered throughout all of our sentences during incarceration, because everybody had done a different amount of time, you know, so we had people that we knew that was still back there. And that's when we start dreaming of, like, what would it look like if we could break the back of recidivism in our nation, in our state and even beyond? You know, and so our dream was, okay, we going to get into a couple prisons, do our program, and we're going to have a few transitional houses. Not knowing that 16 years later we was going to be building a whole community that sit on 26 acres. Okay, women, that's returning.
- [30:57]
Unknown
Before, before you describe that, that end point, there's a lot of stuff that happened in the middle, but one of those is, is about motivation. So you got together with, with this guy and then these guys and, and their wives. It all sounds like you were having a, a really good time together with developing this vision for the future. But there was something in common among you besides the fact that you all did time, I'm sure. What was it? Because look, some people, when they see a horrible or difficult thing, they live through something, they go away from it. Yeah, you stayed right in the thick of it to solve it. What was it about the three of you that made that so important?
- [31:43]
Don Williams
We believed that if God changed us, that he can change all of those men and women that we knew that was sitting behind the wall, but they just needed somebody to come tell them and help them along the way on that journey. That's what we, we believe that, that their future could be greater than their past. We believe that with our whole, with the whole fiber of our being. Because it happened to us. It happened, it happened to us. You know, our lives was transformed. So what we did from that point is so we sat on the porch that night with our wives from about 6pm till about midnight. And the guy that lived here, that's whose house we was at, and he had been out a little longer than us, so he had some relationships with some Social entrepreneurs in the community. And he knew that we was doing that on our own dime, you know, and didn't mind. We still went on another three or four years before we ever, you know, was able to get anything, you know, as far as getting paid for our. For our work. But we would have done it for free, but it just required more time than. Than we had to give because we had other. Other obligations that, you know. So he pulled together a few individuals, and we cast the vision to them. And one gentleman in particular was very familiar with how to set up a 501C3. So he said, I'll set up all of your paperwork for you. He said, and I'll serve on your board. He said, I don't have much time, but I could serve on your board for at least six months. Well, I tell you this, I stopped by his office about three weeks ago, and he's still on the board. And I just stopped by to update him on a few things, but he's still on the board. And I told. We laughed about it. And I said, man, it's been a long six months that you've been with us. So, you know, him and a couple other individuals in the community, a few churches really got behind what we were doing, and we were able to purchase our first home. And then we was able to. We really got structured with our program, so we really developed a curriculum. And then what we did from there, Jay, is we started going into the institutions and building relationships with the chaplains in the institutions and identifying men and women that had either that we knew or that the chaplain knew, that had great character, you know, and also had a good bit of time left on their sentence. And the reason why we chose those individuals in the beginning is one, for a sense of purpose. And then two, we needed someone that was going to have longevity at that institution that can facilitate the classes week in and week out. So we had to have somebody that had, you know, 10 years or something left on their sentence that could really help us build the program at that institution. So now we're at about four prisons. I had two that I managed up in this area, and he had two down in the lower part of the state that he went to. Well, word began to spread about the program throughout the institution, institutions, and the wardens start to hear about it. And what they started doing was watching how the character of the guys that went. The guys and girls that went through our program, how they came to the yard and all the infractions and administrative incidences that they've had how that began to subside as they was going through our program and even after they completed our program, how they impact the culture on the prison yard.
- [36:15]
Unknown
So tell me, tell me about the program a little bit. So in a nutshell, what are they learning inside? How does that prepare them for them, this next step of what you're doing with jump start when they get out.
- [36:25]
Don Williams
Okay, so it's a discipleship program. It's a 40 week program, but it actually classes is held once a week and it's usually about 40 to 50 individuals that go through the program at each institution. So we're in 19 institutions across the state now. It's 21, but that took us 16 years to get here. So we have our own workbook curriculum that we use and we also use the Purpose Driven Lifebook. So what the program participants would do first, let me back up. We have a curriculum for those that's leaders. You know, I told you, we identify leaders. So we go in and train the inmate leaders on how to facilitate the program and how to be mentors to the participants that's going through the program. Right. And then we have volunteers from the outside that just comes in as a breath of fresh air to provide that same encouragement, that same hope that we provided ourselves in the very beginning to, to those that's going through the program. But you have the inmate leaders that's, that's facilitating the class, but also holding those guys accountable. And when they have tragic situations, like for me, when my brother died or when my mama died, you have a strong brother to lean on to help you stay focused and stay on the course, to walk through this, because it's so easy just to throw your hands in the air and just go ballistic, so to speak, when something like that happens. So the, the program is 40 weeks. So week one, by the first four weeks, we do what we call a boot camp. We let them know, you know, that any religion is welcome, you know, to come through the program. But our program is Bible based and Christ centered. Right. So we do that the first, the first four weeks and we typically have a few individuals that drop off. And after that, then we start with week one of the Purpose Driven Life book. So what the program participants do is they read chapter one and then they go over to the workbook that we put together where they have different questions based on the chapter that they read and they, they answer those questions. And that following week they come back and discuss those chapters. They discuss it, they break off into small groups with those inmate leaders. So we have multiple, usually five to eight inmate leaders, but they may have five or six of that 40 in that cohort that they work closely with throughout the course of that 40 weeks. They live in the same dorm with them. They work with them, you know, in, in the small groups within the class, and then they come back together and discuss it. So usually about every 10 weeks, we have a 25, 25 question assessment that we do that the inmate leaders and the outside volunteers, they sit down and they score the participant, you know, each participant out. Based on those 25 questions, we have four tiers that each participant can graduate in. Blue means that you qualify for leadership, and if you have enough time left on your sentence, you may qualify to come back as an inmate leader next year. You graduated as green, which means you're not quite leadership material, but you're well on your way. You've dealt with the issues that brought you to prison. We've dug up some of the things that you have suppressed for so long, and we've broken down all of the coping skills that you developed to deal with those things that you've been suppressing. And then if you graduate yellow, which means somewhere along the way, way that you've stopped, you know, you've slowed down, whether we got to an issue that you just wasn't really ready to deal with yet, you know, whatever the case, but we know that you've slowed down. And then if anyone that scores out is red means they completely stopped. And they are nine times out of ten going through the program just so that they can have another certificate, think that it's going to get, get them out of jail. Like it's a get out of jail free card. So every 10 weeks that assessment goes on. So the, the, the inmate leader that's responsible for those five or six individuals in the cohort, he'll say, okay, Don, we scored you out. And right now you're at a, we're at week 20 and you're scoring out as a yellow. By the time we do this assessment again at week 30, we need to get you up to a green because we're going to work with you in these areas where you're not scoring out as high. Because in order to come to our transition program on the outside, you have to graduate in the blue or green tier. So the overall goal is to help all of our program participants achieve blue or green because we know that those are the individuals that's gonna impact the recidivism rate.
- [42:00]
Unknown
And that's an important thing to touch on. So recidivism rates in the country are very high, and they may be. What is it again?
- [42:10]
Don Williams
70%.
- [42:11]
Unknown
70%. What is it and what is it right there in your state?
- [42:15]
Don Williams
17 and a half.
- [42:17]
Unknown
Okay.
- [42:17]
Don Williams
Yeah. And for those that has come through through our program, we use, we use the, the inmate numbers and we run it up against the Department of Corrections database to see if that number has re entered the system. And it shows that individuals that's been through our program, only 4% has went back. Since 2008, we've had 5,500 to go through the program, 3,300 have gotten out, and only 4% of that.
- [42:52]
Unknown
And I know you're constantly expanding and that's the whole point of this next iteration with, you know, the Restoration village.
- [42:58]
Don Williams
Yes, sir.
- [42:58]
Unknown
But just, just in a nutshell, why do you think that this has been so successful when so many other programs have attempted to address recidivism and don't seem to have been that successful?
- [43:13]
Don Williams
Well, it's. It's two things, Jay. First and foremost, unapologetically and without a shadow of a doubt, we know that it's because of the transforming power of crisis and what's happening in these men and women lives that's, that's causing this change. But also we are building relationships and building a bridge to where we're, we're helping the program participants while they are incarcerated the last two years that they're incarcerated to really lean into and prepare to re. Enter society. But then we're there for another two years after they get out, helping them to readjust to that same society that we was preparing them for when they were in prison. Now there are, there are many, many other organizations that's doing a phenomenal job with re entry, hands down. But the, the thing is, some of them only do outside transitional programming, or some of them only go inside. But when you can do both and have that bridge, that guys an individual. Because you, you think about it, it's, it's almost like when they come to class that very first day, you have a blank canvas, right? And I've watched it time and time again. Individuals will start sit. They start out sitting in the back of the classroom. About midway through, they sitting in the middle, and then before you know it, they sitting up front, raising their hand, answering questions, sharing, you know, because confidentiality is a, is a big part of our program because you may have someone that has been holding on to a trauma for all their lives, but they feel safe in this setting to get that out and share it. So confidentiality is, you know, like at the top of the list. So when you see that happen, then you. That means you've built a relationship with that person to where they trust you enough to show you their most vulnerable side. Then that sparks, that takes the relationship with them to a whole different level at that point. But then when you able to walk them by the hand and say, come on, I walk over this bridge with you, I know about the scars and the scrapes that you have from life, but we gonna clean those bruises up and they gonna heal, but it's gonna take you a minute. But we're gonna walk with you throughout the healing process. That makes a world of difference.
- [45:49]
Unknown
Well, you say it might take a minute. You actually taken two years more specifically. So. And when you describe some of this stuff and you use the example, I mean, of your brother, when he would come out, and then he might be able to stay with your mom or something like that, and. And when everything fell apart, it was losing that. That connection with his job. But there are so many people for whom when you get out, there's no place to go. Right? I mean, you talked about that before. And people falling into homelessness. One of the hallmarks of this program is a place to hang your hat if you even have one, and then maybe a way to earn some money to buy one if you don't, and a place where you can get your three squares so you're not looking back at the walls because you don't have any place to sleep. So what does that look like in terms of what you have today and then where you're thinking about going with this Restoration Village project?
- [46:46]
Don Williams
Okay, so currently, today we have the capacity to house 50 participants. We have over 40 second chance employment partners in manufacturing and construction that provides career opportunities for our program participants. We offer financial literacy. We have truism bank that comes in and does financial literacy, home ownership workshops, you know, credit counseling. But with Restoration Village, because of the popularity of our program and just the demand for individuals needing transitional housing upon release, then we had to increase our capacity. So with Restoration Village, our goal is to not only assist the individuals that's come through the Jumpstart program, but also for individuals that's within our community that's unemployed or underemployed due to their criminal background. Now, in order to qualify for the housing portion, you have to go through the program on the. On the inside. But if it's already individual in our community that's been out for years and maybe working at a job that's not providing, you know, occupational wellness, then they probably already have somewhat of a foundation as far as a place to stay and things of that nature. But we want to be that extended arm to give them that leg up and train them and prepare them to enter the, the workforce that can provide careers for them. Just because maybe when they got out, there wasn't a jump start or they didn't get the opportunity to go through jump start while they were on the inside. So every time that they go to that employer and that employer sees that they have a felony on their background, they just get rejected. But working with us, we already have established relationships with employees, employers that know everyone that we work with has some type of, you know, felony or arrest on their, some type of conviction on their record, and they're open to that because of our track record and relationship with those particular employers, and they're willing to partner with us and trust us to refer more help to them in order to grow it.
- [49:19]
Unknown
We haven't talked about it, but stigma is a huge part of this, isn't it?
- [49:22]
Don Williams
Absolutely.
- [49:25]
Unknown
I mean, so where does that fit with this whole thing? From the, from the way society treats anybody who's perceived to have done something wrong, especially if they've gone through the system, to applying for jobs with employers who are somewhere between you know, concerned for safety of their fellow employees and their customers. But also just, there's bias, right? There's assumptions about people without really knowing who they are, where they come from or what happened. So is this also a way of tackling stigma both with society at large, employers and so forth? But even maybe with the community itself, with the people who are coming out and they probably have a tough time sometimes thinking about where they came from and where they're trying to go.
- [50:09]
Don Williams
Yeah, exactly. It exactly attacks that. And that's why we're so glad that we're able to now finally get to a place where we can reach into the community. Because things just as simple as interviewing skills, when, when they ask you, hey, we pull your background check, I'll tell you a story. So I was doing some mock interviews with some of our participants, and the young lady did well in the interview. You know, I even tested her a little bit and I said, hey, I see that you have conviction on your record. Do you mind sharing that that with me? She told me the particulars around it with her head held high, you know, because she knew that she wasn't the same person that committed that crime then. But then I asked her, Jay, I said, tell me why you Think that you'll be an asset to our company. And she dropped her head. And it was at that point that I knew that her self esteem was low and she didn't feel like she was valued because of the stigma that goes along with someone being incarcerated. Not really understanding the particulars of her crime that, you know, and all that happened that led up to it. But just the fact that she had been incarcerated and now out that stigma made her feel like she didn't have any value. So I was able to lean in and help her with that part so that now when she goes to an interview, she can even walk through that part and share how valuable that, that she is. And that's what we're going to be doing through our Indigo Hope center at Restoration Village as well as we're going to be able to increase our capacity on housing. Whereas now, like I said, we can house 50 participants. But once Restoration Village is up, which we should be completed with it by the end of next year, then we'll be able to house 96 participants. We'll have 22 homes out there. And it's just going to be phenomenal to see all that's going to be able to be done here within, within our community and be able to provide opportunities and room for growth for individuals that's been stigmatized.
- [52:44]
Unknown
And the program is supported, as you said, by a number of different donors, corporate donors and others. But it's also self financed to a degree. Right. I mean the people who are participating in this program are also paying for their housing, their. Your partners in this journey.
- [53:01]
Don Williams
Yes. So, so we, we try to make good use of the funds that are, that our donors provide for us because we know that donors could be using, you know, they worked hard for, for what they've earned and they could be using that to go towards their child or grandchild's college fund to take a vacation or they, you know, that may they have to fend for themselves and take care of their families. But for a donor to really think about sharing what they have with our mission, we try to put each dollar to the best use possible. So by doing that and what we do in that is we have a commercial landscaping company which is one of our social enterprises where our participants that's not quite ready to re enter the workforce, they can work with our landscaping team just to, to get that a little bit of work experience under their belt and we can see what areas that we need to work with them on before introducing them to some of our companies. So we have that As a social enterprise. We also have with the, with the housing component, after each program, program participant starts working, they pay $125 a week. That covers their room and board and their transportation to and from work. Because we do provide transportation to and from work for each program participant. And, and that's, you know, that's after they start working. Now those that stay in a home together, they do purchase their own food. But until their work working, we provide everything, you know, we provide everything for them. Food, shelter, transportation, all that. But what that does is say, for instance, we have a donor that purchases, say, hey, I want to purchase one of the homes at Restoration Village. Each home turnkey full. I mean, that's the home built and fully furnished, $250,000. So that $250,000 is the purchase and furnish the home. Well over time, after program participants are paying that, you have five program participants paying 125 a week. Right. And they're paying that over time, that home would pay for itself. So we're looking at ways to, over, over the next couple of years to truly become self sustainable and being good stewards with, with what's been generously given to us and we have on the back burner.
- [55:52]
Unknown
Well, I was going to say and those other ideas must be about expansion because earlier in this conversation you did say that this is something that you can imagine being, you know, outside the Carolinas and around the country, this recidivism issue, which is really not the way it's discussed widely about people just keep going back to prison. It's about lack of access to all the things that you're providing these kinds of programs. I don't know how widely accessible they are around the country. So are you thinking about making this, making your organization, making services available around the country or serving as a model for others to do the same?
- [56:32]
Don Williams
Yes, sir. Well, we're looking at a couple other states where we're going to be able to. We're not offering the housing right now, but the inside program inside the prison, because that's really where the magic happened and the transformation take place. So you have to get that inside program running like a well oil machine before you step into, step into the housing portion, because that's a beast within itself. So even now we do have our program at an institution in Georgia. We have our program at a couple of institutions in North Carolina as well as Ohio.
- [57:14]
Unknown
I want to ask you about your mom.
- [57:19]
Don Williams
All right.
- [57:21]
Unknown
So when you told me this story today, you talked about the bill collectors and that being an original incentive for, well, finding a way to come up with some money.
- [57:32]
Don Williams
Right.
- [57:33]
Unknown
That was a different person, it sounds like back then, but Absolutely, but, but you were, there was a part of you that was obviously trying to address what you saw when you saw your mom weeping.
- [57:43]
Don Williams
Yeah.
- [57:44]
Unknown
What do you think your mom would say about what you're doing now?
- [57:50]
Don Williams
I, I know that she would be proud because my mama was a community minded individual. She started a sympathy club in our neighborhood. So anybody that dies, my mama would gather up all of the other residents in the community and they would serve that family from the time that person passes away, even to beyond the funeral. So she was, she was community minded. So I, I, I, I feel that she's pleased because I know that if she was alive today, she would be wanting me to do exactly what I'm doing. You know, my mama was a widow, so it was like organic for her to serve other widows or individuals in the community that has experienced the death of a spouse. I can't do that because I never experienced the death of a spouse, but I can serve the population that I serve because I've been there. So, yeah, I think that she congratulate me and tell me that I'm on the right seat of the bus.
- [59:05]
Jay Frost
Well, that's all for today's episode of the Philanthropy Masterminds podcast. Our thanks to our sponsor, Donor Search, the world leader in fundraising intelligence, and our producer, Jack Frost. If you'd like to learn more about JumpStart, go to jumpstartvision.org and if you like what you heard in this program, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, the donor search YouTube channel, or wherever you like to listen. And do consider giving us a like and a positive review so others can find us too. Check out our live webinars and webcasts on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And come back next weekend for another interview with a leader in the world of social good. Until then, this is Jay Frost.
- [59:42]
Unknown
Thanks for joining me.
- [59:44]
Jay Frost
See you next time.