Well Done, My Good and Faithful Servant: A Conversation with Sabrina Walker Hernandez

Summary

The PM Podcast: A Deep Dive with Sabrina Walker Hernandez

Episode Title: Well Done, My Good and Faithful Servant: A Conversation with Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Host: Jay Frost | Release Date: April 12, 2025

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1. Introduction to Sabrina Walker Hernandez

In this compelling episode of The PM Podcast, host Jay Frost engages in an in-depth conversation with Sabrina Walker Hernandez, a seasoned consultant, coach, and facilitator dedicated to empowering small nonprofits. With over two decades of experience, including an impactful 20-year tenure at the Boys and Girls Clubs—where she led significant initiatives such as a $12 million capital campaign and built a $500,000 endowment—Sabrina brings a wealth of knowledge and passion to the discussion.

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2. Early Life and Faith

Sabrina’s journey is deeply rooted in her upbringing within a missionary household. Raised in the Pentecostal Church after her mother transitioned from the Southern Baptist tradition, Sabrina reflects on the vibrant and lively nature of Pentecostal worship compared to the more reserved Baptist services.

“I grew up surrounded by these women who did not behave, who did make history. And I'm kind of proud of that.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [00:00]

She highlights the unique influence of strong female leaders in her church, including her grandmother, who became an evangelist, fostering a sense of resilience and independence in Sabrina from a young age.

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3. Mother's Mission and Influence

Sabrina’s mother played a pivotal role in shaping her values and career path. A dedicated missionary in the Pentecostal Church, her mother orchestrated various community-wide events, instilling in Sabrina a profound sense of service.

“She was putting on some type of community-wide event. She did something for the kids.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [06:03]

Despite facing challenges such as dropping out of high school due to personal struggles, her mother’s determination to pursue education later in life served as a powerful example. At 73, Sabrina’s mother graduated college with a degree in theology, underscoring the importance of lifelong learning and perseverance.

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4. Career Path: From Military to Nonprofit Leadership

Initially aspiring to become an attorney, Sabrina's path took a significant turn during her internship with the Advocacy Resource Center for Housing (ARCH). Realizing her passion lay in the nonprofit sector, she shifted her focus, culminating in a robust career with the Boys and Girls Clubs. Her leadership there saw remarkable growth, tripling revenue and expanding the organization's reach in one of the nation's poorest counties.

“I could have stayed. I could have still be there right now. I could have done a job with my eyes closed at that point.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [35:25]

Her ability to blend public administration with nonprofit management made her tenure particularly effective, fostering strong relationships with city councils and local governments.

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5. Facing Health Challenges: Cancer Diagnosis and Faith

In 2018, Sabrina encountered a life-altering challenge when diagnosed with two rare blood cancers: non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and multiple myeloma. This diagnosis prompted a profound introspection of her faith and purpose.

“What I want to live in my purpose, like my life has purpose. And this is a talent that God has given me.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [25:55]

Facing severe complications, including an allergic reaction to propofol leading to pancreatitis, Sabrina’s resilience was tested. Her journey through chemotherapy and a stem cell transplant at MD Anderson, a premier cancer treatment center, reinforced her dedication to living purposefully despite the odds.

“I want to live in my purpose, like my life has purpose... That's all I want to hear.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [25:55]

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6. Transition to Entrepreneurship: Building Better Boards

Post-retirement from the Boys and Girls Club, Sabrina leveraged her extensive experience to establish her consultancy, initially named Supporting World Hope and later evolving into Building Better Boards. Her business focuses on enhancing organizational leadership by strengthening boards of directors, fostering strategic relationships, and driving fundraising success.

“It's building relationships and having that dream team, that board of directors, that leadership team that can take you to strategize and help go to that next level, that's where I shine.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [39:00]

Her entrepreneurial journey was catalyzed during her hospital stay for a stem cell transplant, where she utilized her time to build her website and strategize her business approach despite the isolation and challenges posed by the pandemic.

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7. Insights on Nonprofit Leadership and Board Dynamics

Sabrina emphasizes the critical role of boards in nonprofit success, advocating for viewing board members as a strategic team rather than a necessary formality. She draws parallels between assembling a sports team and building an effective board, highlighting the importance of selecting members with complementary skills and a shared vision.

“A lot of my ongoing coaching clients... see their boards as necessary evils.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [41:24]

She advises nonprofits to be strategic in board recruitment, ensuring each member contributes meaningfully to the organization's goals. Additionally, Sabrina underscores the importance of CEO-board relationships, urging leaders to adopt a cheerleader mentality to empower their boards effectively.

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8. Current Work and Clientele

Operating a boutique consulting firm, Sabrina serves clients nationwide, including those in Texas, Arkansas, North Carolina, and California. Her services range from conducting board retreats to offering ongoing coaching, tailored to enhance organizational leadership and board effectiveness.

“I have clients that are in deep south Texas... across the country.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [46:02]

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9. Revenue Diversification for Nonprofits

A significant focus of Sabrina’s consultancy is advising nonprofits on revenue diversification, advocating that no single source should constitute more than 20% of their funding. She urges organizations to reduce dependency on government grants by cultivating individual donations, especially during crises when funding sources can shift unpredictably.

“Do not make it complicated. When you give your board members finances show a good old-fashioned pie chart with percentages.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [48:41]

By highlighting the importance of storytelling and demonstrating the direct impact of diversified funding, Sabrina empowers nonprofits to build financial resilience and sustain their missions effectively.

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10. Personal Dreams and Future Endeavors

Looking ahead, Sabrina is focused on expanding her influence through keynote speaking and authoring a book titled “How to Build a Seven-Figure Nonprofit Board of Directors: Seven Leadership and Fundraising Success Steps.” She aims to share her insights on building unstoppable teams and effective board leadership, inspired by her personal and professional experiences.

“My dream for me at this point... is being able to not only tell the story by working through board retreats and facilitation, but through keynote speaking.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [52:36]

Her work is a testament to her belief in the power of purposeful living and strategic leadership, both in personal life and within the nonprofit sector.

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11. Family and Personal Reflections

Sabrina credits her family, particularly her parents, for instilling values of hard work, integrity, and service. Her mother’s unwavering commitment to community service and her father's role as a steadfast provider provided a balanced and supportive environment that shaped her resilience and dedication.

“My mom is like, you need to slow down sometimes. I know how you are, but… this is my slow.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [55:30]

Her relationship with her family remains a cornerstone of her ability to navigate personal and professional challenges, emphasizing the importance of support systems in achieving one’s purpose.

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12. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Sabrina Walker Hernandez’s story is one of unwavering dedication, resilience in the face of adversity, and a profound commitment to fostering impactful leadership within the nonprofit sector. Her journey from a faith-driven upbringing to military service, nonprofit leadership, and entrepreneurship offers invaluable insights for organizations striving to build stronger, more effective boards.

“My goal, my dream is when I meet God, as he says. Well done, my good and faithful servant.”
— Sabrina Walker Hernandez [00:00]

Through her work, Sabrina exemplifies how aligning one’s purpose with service can lead to transformative outcomes, both personally and within the broader community.

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Learn More:
For more insights and resources from Sabrina Walker Hernandez, visit supportingworldhope.com.

Podcast Credits:
Produced by Jack Frost | Theme Music: “Moving Out, Moving In” by Jay Taylor | Courtesy of Epidemic Sound

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe on your favorite platform and explore our sister shows, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Raise.

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Transcript

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

When people get diagnosed. For me, the biggest takeaway of being diagnosed with cancer, the scary C word, and all of that is really aligning what your purpose is. Again, my. My goal, my dream is when I meet God, as he says. Well done, my good and faithful servant.

[Jay Frost]

Welcome to the PM Podcast, brought to you by Donor Search, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy, and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost. Sabrina Walker Hernandez is a consultant, coach, and facilitator who helps small nonprofits grow leadership, strengthen boards, and raise more money. She began her career in 1996 and spent 20 years with the Boys and Girls Clubs, including 11 as CEO in Edinburgh, Texas, where she led a $12 million capital campaign, built a $500,000 endowment, and tripled revenue in one of the nation's poorest counties.

[Unknown]

Now, as president and CEO of Building.

[Jay Frost]

Better Boards, Sabrina trains and advises nonprofits across the country, drawing on her academic training, deep community roots, and belief that strong relationships drive lasting impact. Our conversation begins by asking about her early years growing up in a home rooted in faith and service and.

[Unknown]

And how that prepared her for one.

[Jay Frost]

Of the biggest challenges any of us can face.

[Unknown]

You were raised in a missionary household, is that right?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

I was. My mother was a missionary in the Pentecostal Church. I grew up in the Pentecostal church. Very fortunate. I consider myself very fortunate for the way I grew up. It's interesting because I grew up in North Carolina, Virginia, and in North Carolina and Virginia, Pentecostal and Baptist are world worlds apart, believe it or not. And so when my mother was in her 20s, she left Southern Baptist and went over to Pentecostal. And it was a major controversy in the family, believe it or not. And in that transition, though, she, we. We grew up Pentecostal. And my, my grandmother actually also went from Baptist to becoming Pentecostal, and she became an evangelist in the church. And not only that, I will say this because this kind of shapes who I am as well. If you notice, these are all women. I grew up in Pentecostal Church and my pastor was a female pastor. And that is kind of highly unheard of. And I will tell you, she used to go by R.C. rush, and she did it that way because when, if she went by her name, which was Rosa, a lot of people would not have invited her to their church. Right. Particularly in their pulpit. So I grew up by these. You know, my shirt says, well behaved women rarely make history. So I grew up surrounded by these women who did not Behave, who did make history. And I'm kind of proud of that.

[Unknown]

So talk about that difference between the Southern Baptist tradition and Pentecostal tradition. What was that like for you especially? You were probably quite young when that switch was made. So what was the experience like? What is it like in that church?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

I was young when this switch was made. And honestly, I don't know. Growing up, I don't remember the Baptist side other than visiting my great grandma's church. And there is a stark difference. Pentecostal were very lively folk and we very lively. Our services are very lively and we are very engaged in the process of church. That's one. Number two is a lot of Baptist folk do not believe that women should be preachers. So that's the other part of that. And growing up, for me, Baptist was considered the very proper people, the very upper crust people. We, we did. There was no display of the emotions that you got to see in the Pentecostal church a lot of times. And so that was the, the major stark differences for me. We would visit my grandma, my great grandma, I say my great grandma's church, we would visit. They had vacation Bible school. I would go to vacation Bible school there. But other than that, it was, that was not my connection. And you know, the other amazing part of that is when my mot the switch. And I remember because Pentecostal you grow up, it's really strict. You know how you grow up, it's strict. You can't, women can't wear makeup. You have to wear dresses when you're going to the church. You can't have really skin showing. So you wore stockings, you wore long sleeves. Your hair is your glory. So you really shouldn't, you know, do it, do a lot to your hair. So it was, it was some rules. But I remember growing up, my mom, again, not a well behaved woman. She said, I chose this. You did not choose this. With four kids, she goes, y'all did not choose this life. I chose this life. And so we got to wear pants, we got to go to the movies, we got to listen to secular music, we got to do our hair. And that was odd in our church. And they did give my mom a hard time in the church because she said, I chose this. My children did not choose this. And as long as I teach them how to be good people and to live right and to believe in God and trust the Bible, that's what I'm here to do. So I learned a lot from my mom.

[Unknown]

But again, missionary household, so was she. How did she Mission, Yes.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

So my mom, that's the other part of the journey too going into I guess my career path. My mom mission in our community. I grew up in the area called South Rocky Mount in North Carolina, which was very impoverished, poor area. And so my mom missioned in our community. Every year she put, she put on some type of community wide event. She did something for the kids. If there was going to be a program or a vacation, Bible school or whatever it was, it was my mom who was putting it on. And she still does that to this day. She's 73 years old. She just graduated from college. She was the oldest one in her class to graduate. She graduated with a undergrad in theology. And just last year I, she planned a Women's day lunch. Well, it wasn't even a luncheon, it was like a three day Women's day event. And she, it was a complete program and I helped her plan it from where I met and my sister also helped her plan it. So we're, we're. She's still doing that part of her, her ministry.

[Unknown]

I'm just marveling at having, just having gone back to college and finished college at 73.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Yeah, it's amazing. And you know, it's again, life happens and she's always, she grew, my mom grew up again poor and she dropped out of high school in the, she was in the 10th grade and she dropped out not because of grades or not because anything like that, but she dropped out because she felt really self conscious. My grandfather or my step grandfather, he only allowed them to bathe certain times of the week. And so she always felt kind of dirty or that, you know, her clothes were dirty or she was dirty or something and I guess kind of like peer pressure or that part of her made her drop out and she just wanted to start her own life and get a job and so she can start taking care of herself. And so that's what she did. And she always wanted to be a nurse. And so many years later I remember her going to school, I remember my mom going back to school, getting her ged. I witnessed that. I remember that getting her ged, then going back and getting her cna. And then as we got older, she went back and she got some other certifications and she worked in a nursing home and we volunteered there. Again, that's where I got my volunteerism from, seeing that example. And then she went back and she did some type of specialization. So when she retired, she retired from the hospital and she worked in cardiology. And then she just said I'm going to go back and get my college degree in theology. And that's what she did.

[Unknown]

Was it just you and your siblings and your. And your mom?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

And my dad. My dad as well, yeah. Yeah. We grew up, my mom and my dad. My dad was the biggest center and still is the biggest center you ever want to see, if that makes sense.

[Unknown]

What do you mean?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

So as my mom would never curse and would never do those types of things or, or gamble or do any of those things, and my dad, that's just who he is, and they made a great balance of each other. My dad is a cool guy. He really is. He was a hard worker. He worked. He always provided for the family. I grew up with some great role models, and it's really shaped who I am. And when challenges come along in life, it allowed me to be able to respond in a way that I think that they are proud of, that I'm proud of. So I think it. It turned out pretty good when.

[Unknown]

When I talk to people about their journeys and they talk about church, it usually does have a meaningful role in some way. It must have been huge in your life based on what you just said.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Yeah, church was very huge. You know, I grew up. I grew up going to church all the time. I was, Monday through Sunday, literally every day, singing in a choir, usher. I was usher on the usher board, all of those things. But honestly, when you get in your 20s, and you know how it is when you get in your 20s, you. You think, okay, God, you start having, you know, we good. Like, I. I saw you every day. We good. If I don't ever go back to church again, we. I've. I've been enough. We good. And I did that for, you know, a little while. And then you have your kids and. And you actually miss church. And I did miss church. And my kids were older, but we started back going to church. And believe it or not, it was a Baptist church, because where I live in Texas, which is deep, deep, deep south Texas, like 10 miles from the Mexico border, there were not a lot of Pentecostal options, so. And particularly Pentecostal options that spoke English and not Spanish. So I wind up going to a Baptist church. And they did not believe in women's preachers. I'm like, how did I find myself here again? But it was home for a while and it helped. You know, I started missing church and just missing that connection of community and communion with God. And so I started going, going there and then. And I really felt an obligation also to my Children, because having grown up with that type of faith and at your core, I wanted to make sure that my kids had something that they could lean into as well. So I wanted to make sure that that happened. And I think it. Sometimes I question if it did or not, because maybe I started too late on that road with them. But I think at their core, my children are very good people. I often think how disappointed my grandma would be, who was an evangelist, that my children are not praying before every meal and they sometimes struggle with the religious systems, but they're still good people at heart.

[Unknown]

You did say something about service in here, the example of service.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Yeah, I really, I really got that example from my. From my mom and my family. You know, growing up, I will say this. My mom and I, we had a very rough relationship because I was very headstrong and she's strong too. And I remember having a more kindred spirit relationship with my dad, I would say. But now that I'm in my 50s, I see that I was really shaped by my mom. Like who I am at my core is shaped by my mom. And to see the service that she bought into the world, like service to the community, service to the church, even servicing her job, like working with nursing home patients, working in the hospital, all of that service oriented is where my career path and my. My journey took me. And so for 20 years, I worked in Boys and Girls Clubs and well, first, the first job I had, actually, I joined the military service to country. And so I was in the military. And then when I. Yeah, Army. I was in the army. So I met my husband in the army. And he was a. We. We were both stationed. Our last duty station was in Fort Drum, New York, and met him there and relocated to Texas like a lot of military folks do. And, you know, started there. And then when I exited out of the military, I started working in the county, county government. And in county government I found myself. I worked for. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's called Community Development Block Grant cdbg, the Irving county funding. And so when you are a county of a certain size, you get some designations to work with small, smaller cities and nonprofit agencies. And so my boss saw in me that I really liked working with the nonprofit agencies. And so for a while I was in charge of like, monitoring all of the nonprofit agencies in our county. And I really enjoyed it. And when I was in college, I also did an internship for Advocacy Resource center for Housing, which was arch. And I did that internship because I Wanted to become an attorney. I went. I got my undergrad in political science, pre law, and I wanted to become attorney. So I took on that internship thinking I'm going to learn how to mediate because you would mediate between landlords and tenants who were being evicted. And so I got to work with a lot of attorneys and I got to work on the nonprofit side of the house. And I realized I didn't want to be an attorney. Right. Law teaches you there's no right and wrong in law. There's only the law. If that makes sense, yes.

[Unknown]

And you wanted something different. What did you want?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

I. There's right and wrong. There's right or wrong for me. I was too. I was too right or wrong. And so what I did learn is I fell in love with that non profit side. Advocating for people reminded me of how I grew up. And so that's the track that I took. But what's interesting is I decided I wasn't going to go to law school. My parents, if you recall the background that they have, my dad actually just completed the sixth grade, but they knew what law school was. They did not know what graduate school was. And to have that conversation with them to say, I'm not going to go to law school, but it's okay, I'm going to go to graduate school, I'm going to get a master's in public administration, they didn't understand. They were very happy to tell their circle that their child was going to be a lawyer. But when they talk about graduate school, they didn't know. What in the world was she doing? She's always been headstrong. Is Sabrina doing Sabrina again? And she's not going to go to law school. And for years they didn't get it. And then after that, after actually as I was in graduate school, that's when I transitioned over to Boys and Girls Club. And I spent 20 years in boys and Girls Club and retired from there.

[Jay Frost]

And I remember my mom start.

[Unknown]

How did that job with, with, with.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Boys and Girls Club started? So very interesting. When I was in graduate school, one of the young ladies there, Wendy Smith, she was city manager for a local city. And I remember her telling me that the Boys and Girls Club had a position open and would I be interested in it. And I was like, sure. You know, I, it was, it was more, it was their teen court program. It was working with first time juvenile offenders and I didn't have any plans, so I was like, sure. I applied for it. So I applied for it. I got the position I was in that position for a year, and then I got promoted into directors of operations, and then I was in that for five years, and then I got promoted to the CEO position. And the reason why the city manager of a city, we know about a nonprofit position is because that organization was considered a quasi department of the city. And so they were a nonprofit, but a quasi department of the city, much like an economic development arm, is in charge of economic development for a city. They were in charge of youth development for a city, which is a great model. It's more duplicated now than it was back then, those years ago. That was very innovative back then. And so it actually allowed me to marry two loves and allowed me to marry the nonprofit side plus the public administration side. And so that's why I lasted 20 years. I got to dibble, dabble in both worlds. It was wonderful. I had a board of directors, and not only did I have a board of directors, I had to report to city council and work with the city departments and the mayor. So I really thrived in that role. And I loved that role. And I did it for 20 years, until 2018 when I retired. I retired because I got diagnosed with two blood cancers. I got diagnosed with non Hodgkin's lymphoma and multiple myeloma in 2018. And I remember going all the way back to religion. I remember having a conversation with God in my head and saying, then be careful what you ask God, because I. It must have been a sermon or something that triggered something. And I think they were preached. They preached on job. And I just remember having this conversation like, well, do I have job, like, faith, or do I have faith? Because it's just the way I grew up. Am I leaning in on my mom's faith and my grandma's faith? Do I really have faith?

[Unknown]

Is it your own?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Is it my own? And I can tell you, after going through that journey, I was. I did chemo for 10 months. Well, let me just say this. When I first got diagnosed, I. I immediately went to MD Anderson. For those that don't know, MD Anderson is the premier cancer treatment in the world. Not just Texas, but in the world. And I went to MD Anderson, and I remember I had a lump in my neck, a knot in my neck, and they had to do a biopsy. So first they tried to do local anesthesia, and it couldn't be done. So they say, oh, we're going to put you to sleep. And I was like, okay. I had never been in a hospital, mind you just have Babies, nothing major. And I come to find out I'm allergic to profavol. So only 1% of people, first of all, only 1% of people get the two cancers that I. Two blood cancers that I got at the same time. Only 1% of people and only 1% of people is allergic to Profol. So before I even got my diagnosis, I was in the hospital for 30 days because I. The result of being allergic to propofol was pancreatitis. And so I was incubated 30 days in the hospital, my husband was calling everybody saying, I don't know if she's going to make it through this one. All of that, to get through that journey and then to. Then to say, you hear what you want to hear. Because I heard that I had non Hodgkin's lymphoma. Very clear. I did not hear the multiple myeloma part because they say only 1% of people get that. My results said, my MRI, the result said it's suggestive of non Hodgkin's lymphoma or multiple myeloma. And that's what I took in with me. That. That was in my head. And that's what I heard. First five treatments, that's that. Okay. It's okay. Non Hodgkin's lymphoma is very curable. They call it the middle class disease. It's brought on by stress. You go through the process, you will be fine. I was not seeing my regular doctors. I was going to MD Anderson twice a month. And I think, like, on the fifth visit, my regular doctor was not available. And so I saw another doctor. So he's reviewing the charts with me. He's like, okay. He's like, well, the lymphoma is responding very well to the chemo, but the multiple myeloma, the numbers are still blah, blah. And I was like, I'm sorry, I don't have multiple melanoma, multiple myeloma. And he's like. He looked at me, he looked back at the chart and he said, yes, yes, you do. And I remember in that moment the fear that came over me because my grandmother died from multiple myeloma. Multiple myeloma is not curable. And when my grandmother got diagnosed, they gave her five years. And that's usually. That's the window. And I just remember in that moment, just complete fear coming in. And I. It took me about an hour or so to process and come back and apologize to God, because I had been taking this journey in a way that was like, oh, it's it's non Hodgkin's lymphoma. Yeah, I have cancer, but everything's going to be okay. It's very cubo. You know, I have faith. Yay. I have faith. You know, this happened to me and I'm still smiling, I'm still doing this. But in that one, in that crisis of hearing that multiple myeloma, talk about fear sinking in, and was that really fate? And I had to apologize. I had to apologize, have a come to Jesus, meeting with Jesus, with God to apologize for that, because it, the fear, it. It took over for that amount of time and. And then, you know, you. You just have those conversations and you process and you accept where you are and you say, okay, what do we do now? And so finished out the chemo. And In January of 2019, I had a stem cell transplant. And it's funny because the doctor who that year, he was from Alice, Texas, and he won a Nobel Peace Prize that year for stem cell transplant helping multiple myeloma patients. And so now they tell me, eat right, take your chemo pill. Because I'm on a chemo pill for the rest of my life. And you can live forever. I mean, not forever, but you can live 20 years down the road, you know, do what you need to do.

[Unknown]

And so you're already six years.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

I'm six years pass. Yeah, six years pass. And I remember, oh, I passed the five year mark. What a relief. Past the five year mark. But the. I don't consciously think about having multiple myeloma. I share the story because I want others to know the power of faith and the power of living in, living in purpose, but not out of fear anymore. So I get up, I take what I go to bed, I go to bed, I take my chemo pill, I wake up, I do the things I have to do, and I don't consciously think about, oh, my God, you're living with cancer in your body. How's that going to shape your day? How's that going to shape your mind? How's that going? It doesn't shape my day or my mind. It shapes my life. Just to say, I want to live in my purpose, like my life has purpose. And this is a talent that God has given me. And I want to be able at the end of this life to say, you know, that that's the phrase, well done, my good and faithful servant. That's all I want to hear.

[Unknown]

What are those conversations like now?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

You know, the conversations I can tell you the conversations when I was going through Chemo because it's so debilitating. They call it the red devil. The conversations were, get in the boat with Jesus. I don't know if you, if you recall when Paul, yeah, Paul was the, the disciples were in the boat and was it Peter or Paul? I get my, get my Peters and my paws mixed up. I believe it was Paul. But Cyprus was in the boat and there was a storm raging around and Jesus was sleep. Everybody else around him was freaking out because of the storm and he was sleep in the boat. So while I was going through chemo, I was just like, I'm not going to be distracted by the storm. I am going to get in the boat with Jesus, I am going to lay my head on his chest and I am going to let the boat and Jesus put me to sleep. And if he's not worried, then I'm not worried. And that got me through six years later. The conversations are, wow, I haven't gotten in the boat with you. I haven't needed to get in the boat with you. Like, this is, this is. I'm sorry that I haven't been talking to you as much, but I haven't, I haven't had a need to get in the boat. This is good. Like, it's not a crisis anymore. I have, I have gone through the crisis. Thank you for, for helping me get through that crisis. But that though those have been the conversations, and the conversations have been like, I'm not trying to take you for granted. I know you're still there. If I, if I fail to say thank you know that this, this life that I'm living is a thank you in itself.

[Unknown]

This, this piece about gratitude is huge, including for people who don't have the kind of spiritual underpinning that you have. And you talked about service already. That was grounding too. And then you have this, and you have had these conversations for those who don't have those things. You described why service is important, the gratitude piece. Could you talk about that, why that's important?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

You know, gratitude is so important because for me is, you know, I'm just gonna have a real honest conversation with you. For me, gratitude is so important. And everything for me goes back to God and religion. Look, how can you be blessed with something if you don't take care of the. Or be grateful for what you have? You have to show that I am grateful for what I have in order to attract more. Whether you call it God or the law of abundance or the law of attraction or whatever you want to call it, that's what it is, you have to be grateful in what you have so that you can attract more. And so I'm forever, forever grateful because there's always someone going through something and you have no idea what people are going through. And I always say, thank God we don't look like what we've been through, right? Because if we did, oh Lord, we would be some hard looking people out here. But thank God we don't look like what we've been through. So I'm always, I'm, I'm always grateful. And so I live with the. My husband did not grow up religious at all. When he joined the military, they asked him what religion he was and he was like, what? And they said, oh, your last name is Hernandez or you're Catholic. So they put Catholic on his dog tags just, you know, so it could have somewhere in case something happens, they just gave him the religion based on his last name. So he did not grow up religious at all. And we have these conversations about being grateful because he, he struggles with that. Some people go through life with the expectation that life is going to be good all the time. I don't know if you've had that. They don't. What I found that people who did not grow up with a religious base, when bad things happen, they, they question, they question God, they question fairness, they question all of those type things. What I know is that in God, in the Bible, if that's your guiding source and is mine, you are not promised a perfect life. You're you. It's actually the opposite. You will have trials, you will have tribulations. That is what is in the book. It is all trials, it is all tribulations. And so that is what life is. And when you, when you're in the lull of no trials and no tribulations, say thank you. Be grateful for where you are because somebody else is in a deeper valley than what you are at that moment.

[Unknown]

I've got to ask you how that informs, you know, the work part of your life because we've talked mainly about your family and going through this, this, I don't know if you call it a battle, what the process you've been through with cancer and living with, I guess this dance with it, very successful dance, but still huge. But then you've got your work and you were working, as you said, 20 years boys and Girls club, which is very much mission oriented. I mean it's working with kids, helping them in a big and deep way. As the CEO for those last 15, it's huge. And now you're doing deep, you know, additional work on top of that, guiding other organizations. Where does all of this fit into that? How. How does that enable you to, like, carry on?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Well, yeah, it fits because, again, it goes back to purpose. You know, my purpose in this world is to leave it in a better place than which I found it. And I was endowed with certain gifts, and my job is to utilize those gifts to make the world a better place. That is my purpose. I. That's everyone's purpose. What are your gifts? Why are you here? And then to live within that, and it is always outside of yourself. It is selfish, in a sense, when you are able to live outside of yourself. I. You get that? I got validation from seeing kids shine. I got validation from seeing my. My staff, my board shine. I got validation from that. So when I say it's selfish in a sense, it very much is selfish in a sense. You know, I get to speak. I get to be on your podcast, right? I get to speak to people. That gives me validation. At the same time, it gives me validation. It allows me to live within my purpose. So every time I get the opportunity to do this, it selfishly makes me feel good.

[Unknown]

So tell me.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

And I'm okay with that sometimes. I'm okay with that. Sometimes. I had to. I had to step back and say, okay, Sabrina, now don't let the ego drive you. What are we doing this for? I have to have those conversations with myself, too. We're all human. On having this human experience, you know, so there's that. It's not. It's not. It's not all rainbows and. What do you call it? Rainbows and flowers.

[Unknown]

That's right. Or rainbows and unicorns. Rainbows.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Oh, yeah, something like that. I made a moan.

[Unknown]

But now what? I. I'm sorry, I don't remember what caused you to decide to leave Boys and Girls Club. I think you were the second leader there, weren't you?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Yes, I was. I was second leader. So when, you know what, 2018, before I even knew I had cancer, I had announced my retirement. Here's the deal. What made me decide to do that was truly, I think with all leadership, you get to a point where you're like, okay, I think I've taken this organization as far as I can take it. It needs something fresh to come in, someone with some new set of eyes to be able to say, okay, this is where we are. This is where we need to be. And I have the energy. Not only do I have the energy, I Have the vision to get it there. I could have stayed. I could have still be there right now. I could have done a job with my eyes closed at that point.

[Unknown]

But quite a bit, in fact, yes.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Grew the budget quite a bit. But how is that fair to the kids? How is that fair to the organization? Right? You always want to be evolving for higher purpose. And I just felt like I had. I had accomplished what I set out to do. When I took over, the organization had like a $750,000 budget. When I left, it had like a $2.5 million budget, created this endowment, did a $12 million capital campaign. I mean, we were on. All on senators, but it was like, this organization needs something different. And I'm not the person who has that. It needs to bring in someone that. Because, remember, I had only served within that organization, so only knew. I mean, they invested heavily in me. I got to go to Harvard Business School, Stanford, Clemson Leadership Program. So they invested heavily in me. I've always been a learner, but I felt like they needed something fresh. And so that's that. That's why I had decided. I said, I think it's time. I think it's time. And then I say, God in his mercy, made it even more easier when he blessed me with the cancer, because if not, I would have been, like, trying to dibble and dabble in. And I didn't even have the energy to dibble and dabble.

[Unknown]

So when did you make the transition and set up your own shop?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

I was in the hospital for my stem cell transplant. And when you have a stem cell transplant, you are in the hospital for 30 days. It's just you and the nurses and the doctors, Total isolation. So I was like, I got 30 days. What are we going to do with this 30 days? And my husband knew I was going crazy, so he bought me this laptop and I built my website and I did business research and I did all that. And I started my business. And then the pandemic hit. And again, the blessing in the pandemic was it allowed me to slow down, take some business courses, take some. You know, I took a lot of virtual summits and things like that on how to market yourself, how to build your brand, how to start that whole year. I got to focus in on that, and that was the blessing of COVID So I just took. That's how I did it from my hospital beds and pandemic learned and learned and learned and then executed.

[Unknown]

And so describe the business now. Who are you working with?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

So right now, so interesting Enough. When I first launched, my name on my business was supporting world Hope. Because I was like, I'm supporting those, I'm giving hope to the, to those who support hope in the world anyway. So no, I've evolved. And when you, when you have this non profit background, people with non profit who listen to this will understand. You can do it all. You could do marketing, you can fundraise, you wear all the hats, you can go in and clean up the bathroom. You're real good at a lot of things. And so when I first started, I was very much a generalist. Like I could do market, I could do this, I can do that. But after doing the business and really focusing in on what brings me joy, that's one also what will help organizations really move the needle forward. I see very clearly that organizational leadership is key. Working with the boards of directors, which is my whole goal, is my whole shine, is building relationships. And so building relationships and having that dream team, that board of directors, that leadership team that can take you to strategize and help go to that next level, that's where I shine and that's where organizations can have the most impact. Because if you can get your board of directors together and get them on that dream team path, then the fundraising will come, the marketing will come, that will all come. It starts at the base of having a great team. And you have to see your board of directors as a team. And a lot of people don't see their board of directors as a team. They see it as a necessary evil, which was shocking to me because my board of directors was, it was my team. They, they were my team, they were my champions, they were my partners. They, I, we hung out at each other's homes, we had lunch together, we had real relationships. And I find now in the work that I do at a lot of the organizations, they see their boards as necessary evils.

[Unknown]

Why is that? And, and how, you know, because you're not. Every organization is like for example, the Boys and Girls Clubs where you were. How are you helping people to figure out what's the best recipe for recruitment and retaining board members who really do all the things that they can do?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Well, one is, a lot of people are not very strategic in how they identify who serves on their board. They don't even know who they're, what they're looking for. Right. And so it's getting to think about that again. It's putting together a dream team. If you're trying to go to the super bowl, do you have the right coach? Do you have the right running back? Do you have the right tight end? Do you have the right quarterback? Well, who is on your team? And they don't look at it strategically like that. And having them see it be a strategic driven decision about who to invite to serve on the board or to interview and be on the board. The other thing is CEOs need to see themselves as cheerleader, not, not necessarily the coach, because the board chair is more like the coach. But they need to send themselves as the cheerleader of the board. You know, rock, like hyping them up, giving them the tools that they need to be successful, bringing that together. And the only way that you're going to do that is really having a great relationship with the coach and making sure that. And I always call the coach like the board chair, the board. And a lot of times people will pick the board chair by going, tag, you're it. Nobody else wanted a job like what? That's not how you pick your coach of your winning team. That's, that's no. So getting, getting that part done and you smile because you know it's true. You've probably been tagged you it yourself. And so no, that's not how we do this. And so making sure. And then once you have that, developing that relationship, sharing that vision, cheering that vision on, believing in the vision yourself, right. And reminding them of the vision, all of that ingredients comes together to make a great team that can strategically take the organization to the next level.

[Unknown]

Is that part getting easier or harder in this environment? You know, especially executive leaders, the staff leader kind of giving up some of the control, not being the coach, but being the cheerleader. I mean, they're still, you know, managing the staff and making sure they execute. But it is different to kind of seed some authority.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

How, how is that getting easier or harder these days?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

I think with Lord, is it getting easier or harder these days? I see a lot of the struggle around, believe it or not, I see a lot of the struggle around a lot of the CEOs not having confidence. So it's getting harder because when you don't have confidence, what tends to happen is you don't trust the team. And so because you don't trust the team, you won't for lack of a delegate to the team, you'll just do it yourself or you'll continue to try to do it yourself. But then you hold that resentment of, well, my board doesn't do anything. Well, you, you keep doing it yourself. Why would they do anything right? You know, like, well, they don't respond to this email, and they don't do this. Okay. How else do they communicate? Right. You can't communicate to people in the same. The same way, but they will continually. Email is something simple, but they'll continually use that channel of communication so that they can say, well, I did try to get them. I sent the email. But you're really not giving up control. You're not giving up control when, you know, they don't check their email. That's just checking a box to say, well, I tried, so I just might as well do it myself.

[Unknown]

So you're working with folks mainly in the same neck of the woods. You're working with people around the state, around the country.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Around the country. I have clients that, of course, in deep south Texas. I have clients in Laredo, Texas. I have clients that are in Arkansas. I have clients that are in North Carolina. So it's just across the. Across clients in California. So it's across the gamut. I. On my ongoing clients, of course, they're across the United States. Some of the clients that a lot of my local clients are kind of more like come in and do this board retreat. For me, they're not like the ongoing coaching type client, which I'm okay with. I'm okay with dropping in and doing a retreat. It's only one of me. And. And that's the other thing. You know, when I first started the company, my husband be like, what are you doing up here? And he'd be like, I'm building an empire. Because that's the way my mind works. My mind works. Everything is big. I'm building an empire. I'm building an empire. And then I really had to stop and say, girl, you already had cancer. The stress almost killed. What are you doing? And so now I'm like, I'm okay. I have a boutique business, and I'm okay with that. I have a certain capacity, and once I hit that capacity, I have people I can refer you to, because my client load is full. So when I say I'm okay with doing a retreat on a weekend and giving you a final report, I am very much okay with that.

[Unknown]

Well, that also can be a lot of fun, right?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

I mean, you get to travel, you know, I get to travel. Travel and do your retreat and, you know, spend a day or two with you and then come on home. I really enjoy it.

[Unknown]

As you're looking around the country now, a lot of the things that are happening, I'm sure for your clients and others that you're talking to are this goes back to the transition you made between government, quasi governmental organization, then raising money for it, doing a capital campaign and all that. But there's so much reliance still on government. And now we've seen a lot of change. We don't know how long that change will last. It may be permanent for all we know.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

For all we know.

[Unknown]

So where does all that, where does this fit in? That as you're talking to people and they're trying to figure out how to pursue the dream. The dream team is one piece. Another piece is finding revenue they've never found before. Where is their pain? How do you help them to address that?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

You know, you speak in my love language right now because I just, I've always had the mantra even when my organization look, no more than 20% of your revenue should come from one source. No more than 20% of your revenue should come from one source. When I inherited my organization, we had a lot of government funding. It wasn't federal, but it was a lot of local government funding. And so we consciously started looking at the budget and figuring out what, what percentages are we coming at this from? That's the first thing I tell people to do. Don't make it, do not make it complicated. When you give your. But your board members finances show a good old fashioned pie chart with percentages. More than likely when you do that and you're putting on your business hat if you see more than 20% of your funding coming from a source, then you need to question it. And more than likely what is happening now is. And what happened with us when we did that, we realized that we were getting zero from individual giving. Most of the organizations that I have been working with, 0 to 6, maybe 1% has been individual giving. They have been very reliant on government and grants. Now is the time to have those conversations with the board. This is it. This is the moment. You know how people respond in crises. When there's a hurricane somewhere and you can text 255 and give $5 and do this. This is a crisis. Whatever mission you, you have. And if 70 I was working with a client like 75% of their funding was from government, that's a crisis. And it's the crises and it's the story that needs to be told. If this goes away, our organization goes away bored. You can no longer be here and be on the letterhead. You have to have board giving and you have to ask individuals for money. And this is the time to do that. People are very aware of what's going on in the political environment now all you have to do is say tell the story. That's it. And it's not about you. You're telling the story on behalf of the client. If we don't do this, then this organization goes away and the service that we provide to our clients go away. It is not about you. And now is a crisis. And you have to tell the story of that crisis and how that is impacting you. And if that doesn't motivate you, I don't know what is.

[Unknown]

Well, I guess telling the story and how it impacts you can also be even that person telling that story. Right. I mean, because hopefully the board members understand that. I mean, the same way you've been sharing your story now with, with, with me and with us. Because it's important so that people can understand, you know, how people can face these things and then move on and live, live a full life, which you, you do in your work and your life. You've been talking a lot about things like dream teams and so forth. That also suggests that you believe in dreams and looking.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

I do.

[Unknown]

What is the dream for you at this point? Where you, where are you going? What's your dream?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

So my dream for me at this point, I, I guess I break it down into little categories. One is the family dream is to just, you know, create memories and moments with my family that is like that is that dream. On the work side of the dream is I, I love talking. I don't know if you can tell. I just finished my book. It's going off to the editors. Yes, it's called how to. Well, right. It's at the Editors. It's called how to build a seven figure non profit board of directors, seven leadership and seven leadership and fundraising success steps. So that's off at the, this at the Editors as we speak. So I want to really be able to not only tell the story by working through board retreats and facilitation, but through keynote speaking. You know, I, I've been doing keynote speaking, but just on the surface I, I did like six or seven engagements last year and I really want to dig into that. I have, I created this, this keynote and workshop called five Steps to Building an Unstoppable Team. Because when I was going through my chemo and everything, I even, I took a year off of work, right. And my team had to keep going. And we, we didn't plan for this. It was it. We, we planned for retirement. Throwing a big old retirement party and saying bye bye. But we did not plan for myself as a CEO, going through this journey and still being CEO and everybody having to step up through this. And they did. They really did. And so what does it take to build an unstoppable team when the CEO who prided themselves on being unstoppable has to stop?

[Unknown]

You know, another unstoppable team in your life clearly has been your family. You've talked about them a lot.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Including people who didn't really understand what in the world you were doing when you went after a graduate degree may not understand what all these organizations are about. I know I've run into that sometimes with family. People may love us, but they don't necessarily completely understand what we do.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

No. My mom for 20 years said, I play with the kids.

[Unknown]

You play with the kids.

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Well, that was true, too, I'm sure. So now when you. I don't know if your parents are still with you. Are they?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

Yes, they are. Yes, they are.

[Unknown]

What do they say about all this? What. What do they think?

[Sabrina Walker Hernandez]

My mom is like, you need to slow down sometimes. I know how you are, but, you know, you. You need to slow down. It's. It's okay to slow down. And I'm going, well, this is my slow. I really feel like this is my slow. And I feel like it. I'm. I'm focused. Like, my word for 2025 is intentional. I am very intentional about what I am doing, and I'm focused, and I feel like I'm in my. I'm living my purpose. You know, people get. When people get diagnosed. For me, the biggest takeaway of being diagnosed with cancer, the scary C word, and all of that is really aligning what your purpose is again. My. My goal, my dream is when I meet God is. He says, well done, my good and faithful servant.

[Jay Frost]

Well, that's it for this episode of the PM Podcast. You can learn more about Sabrina and building better [e-mail] Our thanks to our sponsor, Donor Search, the world leader in AI and donor research for nonprofit fundraising. Our producer is Jack Frost, and our theme music is Moving Out, Moving in by Jay Taylor and is provided courtesy of Epidemic Sound. If you like what you heard, make sure to subscribe wherever you like to listen. Check out our sister shows, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Raise. And come back next weekend for another conversation with a leader in the world of social good. Until then, this is Jay Frost. Thanks for joining me.