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- [00:00]
Ashley Huft
I flew to Atlanta. I was planning to quit. I was just going to leave the law firm and met with my managing partner who was also a mentor of mine. And I said, Ben, you know, I appreciate just made partner and I appreciate that. I appreciate all you've done for me. I've enjoyed being here, but I'm going to leave. And he said, where are you going? I said, what are you going to do? And I said, well, I'm going to go to Africa.
- [00:26]
Jay Frost
Welcome to the PM Podcast brought to you by Donor Search, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost. Ashley Huft is president and CEO of Unbound, an international nonprofit based in Kansas City that partners with families worldwide on their self directed paths out of poverty. A Harvard trained attorney and anthropologist, Ashley has built a distinguished career advancing sustainable solutions to poverty, food insecurity, education and gender equity. In this conversation we explore her journey from corporate law to global development and now to leading an organization serving hundreds of thousands of families around the world.
- [01:14]
Ashley Huft
Yeah, so my father was a doctor. Yeah, he was a doctor. He was an orthopedic surgeon but very devoted to service. So in and my mother was a teacher. And then midway through our childhood she left teaching to be just at the home, but also did a lot of volunteer activities. But my father, he, he was at a big hospital, had a big practice. But his favorite things, we grew up in southwest Missouri, around Springfield, Missouri in the Ozarks. And what he enjoyed doing most, he was the local family doctor for an Amish community. He also was a doctor at the federal penitentiary. He donated his services at the federal penitentiary in Springfield. He did a lot of free services, scoliosis screenings, et cetera, at public schools. He was on the school board, he was a teacher at Sunday school. And so his life was full of service and using his skills for others besides just being kind of in a big private hospital practice, which he was very successful at. So both of them early on instilled the living a life of service in me. And then the other thing that my dad especially had a real adventurous side. He loved learning, he loved exploring other cultures. We started traveling when I was young. He was an avid reader of National Geographic. So when I was young I started picking it up. So I, I had wanderlust in, in me from, from childhood and from there went on. It's why I studied anthropology and archaeology as an undergrad and really anticipated from there going right into public service. So Service of some kind. So I did teach for America. Taught in rural school in Louisiana after undergraduate degree, after getting my undergraduate degree, and then went to law school. And from there I thought, you know, I went to law school with the idea I was immediately going to go back to Missouri, come back to Missouri, run for office, go into public service. One thing led to another, and I followed the crowd and went into a law firm and really great law firm. Started at a. And did corporate practice in Atlanta, and they then moved to New York. And every couple of years, when I thought, okay, it's been enough. I've paid back my loans, I'm ready to leave, something would keep me tied there. And before I knew it, I became a partner in the corporate practice at this law firm in New York. Loved the firm, had great colleagues, professional work, was doing really well, but knew in my heart I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing. I was riding the subway to work every day with tears in my eyes thinking, you know, this is. This isn't what. This isn't right. I was not, not, not. I haven't found it yet. And so I just. At the same time in. This was 2005 that I made partner. I read a book, the End of Poverty by Jeffrey Sachs. And I said, this is it. This is what I want to do. I want to go to Africa. I'd always been. I'd never been to Africa, but I'd always been very, very interested. And it goes back to the Jane. The National Geographic days, I think. So I'd always felt in some way I would be connected to Africa. So after reading that book, I reached out to all my connections. Jeffrey Sachs at that point was in, At Columbia University in New York. I was in New York and through friends of friends, met him and said, I, you know, I just made partner at a law firm, corporate lawyer. I want to come work for you. What can I do? And I was thinking about going back to school, but instead I'll just, I'll come. I'll come volunteer my services. And so he is one of these individuals that when he sees, okay, someone with some potential, talent, expertise that'll work for basically, you know, for free. Sure. And so he sent me to Kenya, and he was starting up a project in Kenya. And I took a sabbatical from my law firm, moved to Kenya for about a year and a half. Worked on a foreign investment project with the government of Kenya and the United nations. And Columbia University led that project. Went back to my law firm 2008. But my heart was long gone. And I lasted about nine months back at the law firm and said, this is it for real. I'm going to leave and pursue this. And I started for Jeffrey Saxon full time for a large scale project across sub Saharan Africa that he was leading again with the United Nations, Columbia University and a nonprofit called Millennium Promise, which is what I ran, called the Millennium Villages Project and did that through early 2016 by, by its terms, that project ended at 2015. It was showing a model for how to achieve the Millennium Development Goals within, at a community level, within a fixed budget and did that through 2016. In the meantime, adopted a son from Ethiopia. We were living in Kenya, I mean living in, in New York, but going back and forth to Africa, working all across Sub Saharan Africa. And after the Millennium Villages Project died down, he, Jeffrey Sachs and the president of Rwanda, Paul Kagame, started a center there focused on, center in Rwanda, focused on the Sustainable Development Goals, the new generation of goals. And so my son and I moved to Kigali, Rwanda in 2017 and worked there for three years at a very high level. Policy, development, resource mobilization. Around the SDGs 2020, we moved to Senegal to continue that work. We were into Senegal when Covid hit and my son at this point was about 10 years old and really decided it was time to plant some roots to be near back near family. With COVID the world was, you know, seemed at the time very uncertain. I was worried about my parents. So we moved to Kansas City where my parents had retired from Springfield. My brother's family is based, my brother is an architect. And I figured at the time that I'd be giving up the work that I love, which is the international development work, working with some of the most marginalized and vulnerable communities in the world, trying to mobilize resources, improve policy, but figured, you know, that's something I just would give up for the sake of family and my son and came back to Kansas City, started interviewing with law firms and thought that's what I'll just go back right back into traditional law practice. And I learned about unbound and unbound works not only in Africa, but countries in Latin America and India and the Philippines, has a very unique personal approach to the elimination of poverty and fell in love with it and joined it coming up on my three year anniversary as the Chief Strategy officer and then became the CEO and president about one year ago.
- [09:21]
Unnamed Interviewer
That's, that's a lot.
- [09:23]
Ashley Huft
It is a lot. And that's, you know, I say it's interesting through all of that journey, you know, from what I was going to do after. You know that what. What I was going to do after college. From college, going to law school. From law school, what I was going to do. It was always. There was a moment, there was. There's a lot of thinking and then there was a moment of just pulling a trigger. You know, leaving my law firm, going to Africa, leaving the law firm for good, of doing some thought, some analysis, but then eventually just following my heart sometimes for better or worse, not understanding exactly where it was all leading. Being questioned sometimes by friends and family, like what are you doing? This doesn't seem like you. Is this the smartest decision Times in the middle of it. And I'd say certainly during COVID and that time in Africa and deciding what to do, questioning myself. But it is amazing at the end of it all and where I am today that it feels like it. It all works out. The path although windy and you, you know, you're not quite sure it work. It works out. And I do really believe in. In that. In that tenet that things work out when you're true to yourself and true. You know, there's a lot of hard work along the way, for sure, a lot of sacrifice, but being really true to who I am and what I want to do.
- [11:01]
Unnamed Interviewer
Did you always have a sense of that though? Because you were. When we began this conversation, the very beginning of that it was, you know, these trips you took with family and the National Geographics and we had them in our basement too. That was my first memory of all these places. It was my father in his case, going off to different countries and then coming back. But collecting the national geos. Stacks and stacks. Exactly so and so that was there apparently in your childhood. But then you decided to go to law. What caused you to pursue the law in the first place?
- [11:37]
Ashley Huft
Well, so. Well, so in all honesty, I have to be. Half of it was after I had a college boyfriend when I left. I went to Harvard College and I moved to Louisiana. He went from Harvard College directly to law school, Harvard Law School. So part of the reason was he to go back to law school and join him. And so that was half of it again following the heart. The second half was that I really did. I had visions of. And it would waver between local politics, going back to Missouri and being. And I always thought I would be the first female governor of Missouri or diplomacy on a larger scale. One of the first jobs I ever mentioned wanting to have when I was younger was being an ambassador. So my. The other the sort of more I guess rational reason for going to law school is I really did think that it would be the right education for a step into some sort of public service.
- [12:54]
Unnamed Interviewer
Right, and you definitely pursue the public service next because that's Teach for America. You just touched on that. But that, again, is something that some people. Well, people do it for a variety of reasons, but that's definitely a choice out of service. What made you choose to go from law school? And I just have to say, you may have been pursuing love, but you went to Harvard Law School, which is not an easy thing to do or did to do successfully, which you did both of. But. But you, you did that, and then you. Then you chose Teach for America. That's not everybody's course either. How did it happen?
- [13:28]
Ashley Huft
Teach for America was between college and law school.
- [13:31]
Unnamed Interviewer
Okay.
- [13:33]
Ashley Huft
So then after law school, I joined a great firm out of Atlanta, based out of Atlanta called Alston and Bird. And you know, it was. This was in the mid mid 90s. Law firms were booming. And at that time in law school, I mean, they were all coming on campus, they were recruiting hard, and I thought, okay, this will be, you know, I had student debt and I thought, this will be interesting. It'll be a great platform to go to, to train to be a lawyer and with all the resources provided to you from law firms to learn to be a professional and also to pay down law school debt. So. So my intention was just to go and stay for a few years, but really enjoyed the firm and had great friends, had great mentors there. Got to move to New York and help start when. Start a corporate practice. We merged with a firm in New York, so. So there was enough to kind of always keep me excited and engaged, but it just wasn't what I. It wasn't. It wasn't work that was. I was passionate about. It wasn't work that I knew was meant for me long term.
- [14:52]
Unnamed Interviewer
What kind of law were you practicing at the time?
- [14:54]
Ashley Huft
Corporate mergers and acquisitions, initial public offerings, private equity, Just the range of. Of corporate work. Right.
- [15:03]
Unnamed Interviewer
And so you, you could do it, but I guess if your heart wasn't in it, that, that must have been that start of that, that search.
- [15:11]
Ashley Huft
It was exactly. It was, yeah. Just didn't have meaning to me at all. And yeah, I was, I was good at it and, you know, good enough to keep progressing in the, in the career, but knew I was just felt deep down I was meant for something different. And that, and that. Getting back to your original question stems from something in childhood, something triggered through my parents through our travel, through the National Geographics, through, you know, my father. I mean, southwest Missouri is a pretty conservative part of the country. Not a lot of diversity. And you know, my father, when he would teach Sunday school and he was, he was such a learner, though he wouldn't just talk about Christianity, he would, he would expand and teach about Islam and Judaism and. And so, you know, he was constantly working to make our lives and what I was learning diverse, even though my environment wasn't. So early on, I knew, you know, I wanted to be surrounded, I wanted to be. Work in different cultures. I wanted to, you know, work with different people. I wanted to make a difference, do that. While also, you know, the adventurous side of seeing the world and exploring. And so that was. I had that in me from burning and it just, it just became. The fire grew more and more as I got further into my career. And, you know, there were moments of real panic, like, how can I, how can I redirect? Am I too far? You know, and I had the, you know, just the great fortune, some good luck of meeting someone who would take a chance on me, Jeffrey Sachs, and let me with someone with very little. I had very little international development expertise at all. I didn't have any economics expertise, no policy background. And, you know, he looks for people who are just passionate, energetic, smart and can just capable and sends them off a lot of times.
- [17:31]
Unnamed Interviewer
What was that first conversation like with him?
- [17:34]
Ashley Huft
Well, it literally was so, so the friend that connected us kind of really built me up and said, this is a great person. And then when I got on the phone with him, I just literally said, what can I do? You know, and I think, and, you know, I think that I probably showed a level of craziness and, and certainly a lot of passion and energy that he's, you know, and after talking and about each other and he was introducing each other and what he had just. He was just starting this project called the Millennium Cities Initiative out of Columbia and they were looking for a project manager to be in Kenya. And so I was kind of right there, right time, and we just connected. I feel in terms of the level of passion, dedication and, you know, desire to make a difference that he was looking for, for someone to just pick up and go to Kenya and, and do this. And I was ready. I had no. I was ready to pick up and, and move.
- [18:40]
Unnamed Interviewer
But this was on a sabbatical, I think you said.
- [18:43]
Ashley Huft
Well, so after, after Jeffrey Sachs provided the opportunity to me, then I, I flew to Atlanta. I was planning to quit. I was just going to leave the law firm and met with my managing partner, who was also a mentor of mine. And I said, ben, you know, I appreciate. Just made partner and I appreciate that. I appreciate all you've done for me. I've enjoyed being here, but I'm going to leave. And he said, where are you going? I said, what are you going to do? And I said, well, I'm going to go to Africa. And I'm not exactly sure, but I'm going to go work for this, this economist. And he said, well, how about this? Why don't you take a sabbatical and come back to us? And it wasn't something that was very common at the. We didn't really have a sabbatical program. So I said, okay, well, why not? I mean, because if this doesn't work out, I've got something on the back end. And so they let me leave and they said, just come back when you're ready. So I moved. So that's. I left and then I came back in 2008, right as the financial crisis was hitting. So, oh, sure, it was like a double whammy coming back and, you know, leaving this work that I just, I love. I loved being in Kenya. I love the work. And then, you know, going back into a corporate practice in New York with the financial crisis was. So it was, it was a hard transition.
- [20:13]
Unnamed Interviewer
Back when you went to Kenya initially, what was it? What was that experience like for you? Because as you said, you didn't have necessarily a lot of international, and certainly not international development experience. I don't know about international travel, but you even described it as a continent. I'm going to go to Africa. So it sounds like you had this idea in your mind. Did it meet your expectations? What surprised you? Or, you know.
- [20:40]
Ashley Huft
Well, so my first time in, in Sub Saharan Africa, actually, because right before I went to Kenya, I did. Went to Tanzania and did climb Kilimanjaro. Hiked Kilimanjaro. So that was my first time in Sub Saharan Africa. What surprised me, I thought I'd seen poverty. I lived in one of the poorest parishes in one of the poorest states in Louisiana in teaching and, you know, so really, you know, I had seen poverty up close in the United States, but when I first got to Africa, it was. It was a little. It was overwhelming to me. It was the con. The. The idea that in our, in our world today, with the abundance of resources, that people die of diarrhea and of malaria and that people don't have access to Clean water. So it was. But there was. On the flip side of that, there was a beauty and a hospitality and a community there that I also hadn't experienced anywhere else. And I certainly felt this the more and more I started, you know, got into communities and started doing, Doing the work and fell in love with it. But that doesn't surprise me because there's something about those old National Geographics flipping through the Jane Goodall ones that my dad had. And I, So I'd always, you know, I'd taken a lot of primatology courses and as. As part of my anthropology degree, so always knew that the. Something. There was something there that in a bit, in a way I romanticized probably that, that that came true. I mean, it is, it is also Africa is an incredibly beautiful place and it's, it's a romantic place, exotic. It's, it's full of amazing culture and people and dance and music. So all of that. I mean, my senses were on fire the, the entire time. But it also, you know, it, it. While being there and starting that work, it solidified for me. I knew what I wanted to do with my life, if possible, if I was, you know, be given the opportunity was to, to. To, you know, to work, to make the. Do whatever I could provide whatever expertise, experience, knowledge, resources I could, could to make this, this part of the world a better place. And had up until working in my current position with Unbound for I, I say from that moment 202006 through to 20. 20, 2014 years, Sub Saharan Africa.
- [23:41]
Unnamed Interviewer
And as you said when you came back initially from that, it was the middle of financial crisis, which I guess must have solidified that view. That boy, I could be doing this or I could be doing that. So at that point, that's when you, I guess the real shift occurred. It sounds like it was as much a mental shift as anything else that you gave yourself the freedom to do this thing that you always wanted to do.
- [24:08]
Ashley Huft
Yeah, absolutely. I think giving the freedom and also accepting, I think some. The risk involved. I, you know, I was, I was, I was leaving a very comfortable life. I built up, you know, I, I knew what I was. I was a good lawyer. I was leaving a great firm. And you know, the, the, the path there was very clear, you know, as I was a partner and you know, I was going to, you know, I was going to retire. Everything was going to be great. And so I was, you know, I was taking on a lot of risk that I probably, you know, was no longer supported by my parents. I mean, it was. I was on my own. I had figured this out. And so that was. That was a little scary. And I'd say, you know, my parents actually were the best supporters through it. It was probably a lot of other people, friends and extended family members who scratched their heads and said, no, what exactly are you doing? But my dad and mom were always 100% behind me, and that was a great comfort to me. I think that was a huge gift that they gave me that I, you know, okay, this is what you want to do. Figure it out. You can make this work and we'll, you know, we're here behind you. And knowing I had that support was the foundation that propelled me forward.
- [25:48]
Unnamed Interviewer
So eventually, as you said, you. You ended up coming back to, to Kansas City. I'm in. I. We were. There was a time when many of us were. Would have been concerned about everything, but especially our parents. I trust they're both, well, the way you've described them. Are they still with you or.
- [26:07]
Ashley Huft
No. My father actually passed away in August of 2023 from a very short three month after three months from diagnosis to his passing of brain cancer in the summer of 2023. So right shortly after his 82nd birthday. So the, the wonderful thing I. In July of 2023 is when I was named. The board asked me to step in as interim CEO of Unbound when the. My predecessor CEO announced his retirement. And so I became the. The interim CEO and. And while they conduct, we're going to conduct a proper national search. So my father was around to see that he knew how much I loved this Unbound and that. That I was able even, you know, it was interim, but I was going to throw my hat in for it to be official and I felt like I had a really pretty good shot. And so I, you know, there's something that makes me really happy to know he passed away knowing with pretty good certainty probably that I had found my dream job that I had landed. Excuse me. As all. As I mentioned, all through all the twists and turns and, you know, some crazy moves here and there where that I was meant to be. I was very, very happy. My son was happy back in Kansas, in Kansas City with his cousins. We were there with my mom. So I. I think he. Well, I know he did. I know he died at real, with real peace knowing, you know, and not just me, but lots of things in his life, all of our family. But so. But my mother, My mother's great. She. She's 81 and healthy and getting older, but a ball of energy and your.
- [28:14]
Unnamed Interviewer
Son, he must be how old now?
- [28:16]
Ashley Huft
14.
- [28:17]
Jay Frost
14, yeah.
- [28:18]
Ashley Huft
And he's Ethiopian.
- [28:21]
Unnamed Interviewer
Yeah, I was going to say. So this occurred at the same time. This is a lot of change. So you made a major professional shift, you made a major geographic shift. You had things going on with your parents, clearly an adoption and then adolescence of a child. There's a lot in there. How did you initially make that adoption decision? I know that's one, that's, that's something that many of us have a heart for, but doing international adoption is, is also a, it can be a complicated thing.
- [28:54]
Ashley Huft
Well, I also knew from, and, and I have this in journals from when I was a teenager. I've talked about adopting and I talked about adopting internationally. So it, who knows exactly what sparks it when you're a child. But so I, it was always something I thought about. Then when I was in Kenya at the time, I started thinking about the process and, and, and exploring when I. And figuring out how, how and where to do it. Knew I wanted to adopt from some country in Africa. Got back to New York City after that time, back into my law firm 2008, and started the process through an agency that was focused in Ethiopia. So it took, it took three years to, from, from start to finish. And he was 11 months old when, when it was all, when it was all finalized.
- [29:52]
Jay Frost
Yeah.
- [29:54]
Unnamed Interviewer
And then there you are in Kansas City. You've. You've found Unbound, which is pretty remarkable to find an international, you know, development agency in your hometown.
- [30:04]
Ashley Huft
Absolutely.
- [30:05]
Unnamed Interviewer
In the middle of the country, but not just one that does development work, but the work itself is unique. And it's unique in the panorama of development work these days, when there's been a lot of controversy over the last couple of decades about the way it plays out, what the role of US and international NGOs has been in the rest of the world. Can you talk about not just Unbound, but also why you think that the approach Unbound takes is so important?
- [30:39]
Ashley Huft
So it is really unique, and I think it's remarkable that Unbound is right here in the heartland. I mean, there's no reason why not. But usually you see these type of organizations in D.C. and New York and of this size. But we were founded by, by a family 44 years ago. Two of the brothers, Brother and one of their friends had been lay missionaries in Central America in the 70s and 80s and were there at a time when a lot of. There was a lot of revolts and uprising. Oscar Romero was assassinated. And so they came up through the church at that time and being part of an active Catholic church that was very, very much involved, involved in the lives of working with like the, the people in poverty and marginalized and, and vulnerable people. And really driven by Catholic social doctrine, really principles of social justice, which is at the heart and at the heart of Unbound is the dignity of the person. And that sounds grandiose and sounds, you know, like a lot of people say that's yes, we, you know, we honor every person that what makes Unbound so unique is that we truly start everything is one to one. So right now we work with 250, around 250,000 families who receive a direct cash transfer payment every month to their bank account. And that comes through sponsors. It comes through sponsors paying $40 a month. And there's lots of different sponsorship organizations out there and they all have different, different models and are, are good, but none do the direct cash transfer. And what we do is we give the family the money. And 90% of our, over 90% of our funding goes to programs. And the families receive every month a payment to their bank account. And we do not tell them how to use is because we realize they are the experts. They know what their families need most. So we don't go in with a I can fix you, I can fix it mentality, but we believe in you. You're in control, you're in charge. And the families use this to meet their own goals. A lot of it's used for education there and there is a requirement of the, the sponsored youth being in, in school of some form. And so a lot do use it for education. But they can if they need to fix the roof on their house, if they need to buy fertilizer, whatever they need. And then they start to also save that through small groups. But we have a goal setting approach, a platform that, a technology where families sit and they assess a whole bunch of different indicators of their life. Everything from, you know, their access to food, to income and savings, to entertainment, their access to news and information. And this platform is called Poverty Stoplight. We use it, it's developed by amazing organization in Paraguay called Fondacion Paraguaya. And the families assess themselves and they give themselves on a range of about 35 indicators. A red for we're in extreme poverty, yellow for poverty or and, and green for no poverty in various. Again, whether it's savings or. And then they set goals and we have a team of social workers, but also they come together in groups and they sort of step by step work on their goals. They use the cash transfer for these goals we have others. They come together in groups and they form. And a lot of times either within their groups or they form separate savings cooperatives so they start saving and then they can access through each other they access loans. We have small business grants and support and we also do additional scholarship support. So the whole package of support around them and I haven't seen it anywhere else I have in all the work that I've done, watching the transformation that takes place within five and six years of families is, is remarkable.
- [35:17]
Unnamed Interviewer
I do want to ask you about that. Yeah, I do. But I want to make sure I'm understanding it in comparison to other models. You described the difference between this, this approach and other kind of child sponsorship which has its value but it's different. As you said, this is direct cash transfer. It almost sounds if it's sustained over time and I'd love to hear how you identify the individuals and families that's going to be a part of this. But also then how you identify or help donors to understand that sustaining a support is important. It's almost like universal basic income is where I was going.
- [35:52]
Ashley Huft
Yeah. And that's what makes it. So there's, and there's you know, another great organization give Directly which does a lot of cash transfers and it's a wealth of resources and evaluations. The difference with a lot of those is there are larger payments and very short term one payment Right where I think we're unique. It is. First of all it's the, it's, it's the, the direct cash compared to other sponsorship organizations and to my knowledge still there aren't any others doing direct cash transfers. It's, it's a hard thing to set up and we've done it because of banking in banking.
- [36:31]
Unnamed Interviewer
Exactly right. Does it go into a bank? Well, if there's not a bank it may go to a phone.
- [36:35]
Ashley Huft
I mean I know a range of things and really. Yeah. And so almost about 99% have banking of our, do have some form of ability to receive money. But then the long term nature of it. So it's smaller amounts but the average sponsorship length is about 12 years. So we are sticking with a family. So it's not forever. Which is another, you know, kind of misconception about sponsors like you know, so, but, but, but it's for, it's, it's for a long period of time. The other aspect about it which this is more common some other sponsorships but is the personal relationship. That's, that's, that's also behind that direct Cash transfer. Now sometimes it's it's via the sponsor. And we have the ability. They have the ability to write letters. The sponsored families and friends can send video messages as well. It is so from the sponsor. But then the, the project teams and the community around them. It's also and, and I'll hear this when I travel the money makes that arrives every month does make a difference. But more than that it's this community of support. It's just what I described with my parents is happening through. Through Unbound is that families and often led by the mothers. It's the mother that is takes. You know, so it's a sponsored. So sponsored youth but it's the mother that's making the decisions and in control of that bank account. You know. And these are women who all their life have been told you're born poor, you're going to die poor, you know, you have not much worth. And unbound first of all by saying hey, here's you're going to get a crash transfer and we're not going to tell you how to use it. But then coming behind around these mothers and saying no, you, you are a leader and you're, you know, you're worth it. And, and we have lots of ways we do that. We the women also in these mothers groups that they form. And we have about almost 12,000 of these groups of mothers, about 20 to 30 mothers that get together and they do their savings and loans. But these mothers just as soon and this developed from them as soon as they are out of crisis, as soon as their family has a level of stability, they immediately start thinking about their neighbor, their community. What can we now do for others? So we developed a program called Agents of Change. And the mothers groups identify a need in their community. Oftentimes it's related to their children's school. They might see a need for a water tank or a girl's restroom. They will put. So again we don't at Unbound. I don't sitting here in Kansas City, I don't decide what it is their community needs. They do. They put a proposal together. It's around $500 or they combine with other groups to make them larger and a budget and they send it into a committee within the community. And that committee is. Is comprised of other mothers who will select them. And then those get sent to us here at headquarters in Kansas City to fund. And so then we will say okay, here's $500. And they will then negotiate with the, with the government. They'll negotiate with the Contractors and they'll get the latrine built or the water tank put in and then there'll be an opening and a ribbon cutting ceremony. And I've traveled as I've traveled around the world, I've, I've witnessed many of them. And yes it provides a need, it fills a need for the community. But what it does more than anything, what is remarkable is to watch again these mothers, these women stand up and hold a microphone and speak to a crowd of government officials and community members and launch the, and do a ceremony handing over something that they did, something that they built. It's life changing and it's that type of support. It's just as I described my parents, it tells them you can, you've got this and with a little bit of money and a little bit of planning which we provide with the goal setting and step by step you can do this. And I have seen again families with this approach where within six years time they have got built within Uganda in October. And I had worked in Uganda for, well since, since 2000, well since about 2009. I had never seen the type of transformation of farming communities as I have with Unbound, where in five, six years time they've built families have built a new house that's no longer that now has a tiled tiled floors and solar panels and they have an improved pit latrine and they've got a proper cook stove and they've got coffee crops interspersed with vanilla and a small fish farm. And it wasn't that we just threw a bunch of cash, it was actually really pretty modest amount. But it's the planning around it, it's the savings, it's the encouragement, it's the saying you can do this and here, you know, you figure out your path, but it's possible. And so you know, all over the world seeing this and an impact that I hadn't seen in years and years of international development with some of the largest institutions in the world, sure I had not seen this type of transformation.
- [42:57]
Unnamed Interviewer
And in fact I know that one of the other models of course was kind of the Graming bank model which I know you know very well. Yeah, but those are loans, those are micro loans at a high rate of interest and it's paid back. Of course the loans are very successful, but they are loans, they are also given to women as, as you're pointing out with your own program, highly successful as women running these, these, these, these efforts under their own terms, just as you've described. But those are loans, these are cash disbursements how do you identify the people who receive these disbursements in the first place?
- [43:38]
Ashley Huft
So our local project teams, so we're in 17 countries. We have about nearly 1,600 staff who. Project staff who are employed by local affiliates. So we have set up independent operating entities. And by the way, just a side note, half of those staff members were formally sponsored or formally scholarship students who went through the program, went on to get different degrees and got hired back. So remarkable. They have, it depends on the country. They have their own assessment tools. But these are families living in extreme poverty. And so they start, they, they get, they start community by community. Oftentimes a neighbor will recommend another neighbor, but they each that, you know, depending on the, the locale, there is a threshold, usually an income and a needs assessment that is, that is done. And we have a wait list, which is why, you know, I, that keeps me up at night. We have about 20,000 families right now on the wait list.
- [44:57]
Unnamed Interviewer
So how many people are you already providing Some, some support for?
- [45:03]
Ashley Huft
250,000.
- [45:04]
Unnamed Interviewer
So. And then 20,000 on a waiting list. And I'm sure that's just the people that you've identified. That's not, yeah, many millions of others here.
- [45:12]
Ashley Huft
It could be, it could be what? I mean, I think what is 700 million people in extreme poverty today? So I would love to get them all sponsored by Unbound.
- [45:23]
Unnamed Interviewer
And that's what I wanted to ask you about. I know you have a new strategic plan that you've developed, but it has a big overarching goal. Could you talk about that goal? It's very bold.
- [45:32]
Ashley Huft
Yep. So by 2030, we want to go from 250,000 families supported through Unbound to 400,000 families and moving poverty for all those families, essentially. So, and then part of one of our, our strategic pillars is the elimination of poverty. And again, that's defined, it's going to be defined family by family through the poverty stoplight goal setting. So, so we describe it as, we don't have 250,000. We don't have one program. We have 250,000 programs. So we have, as we do our evaluations as we look, you know, so the families, we have the data on how the families assess themselves and they do follow ups, you know, every year. And we're looking at the number, you know, moving from those red lights to green to yellow to green as the families, you know, determine how they're moving themselves out of poverty. And so our goal is about a 60% growth in the number of families that we serve and to also open an unbound project in a new country and most likely will be in Sub Saharan Africa or Southeast Asia.
- [46:52]
Unnamed Interviewer
This is a time because we're having this conversation in April of 2025 and there's been a lot of discussion about international transfers in general, whether it's USAID which has been now effectively eliminated here at least for the present. But also there's a pressure. There's pressure from some quarters on let's say US Foundations who might want to give abroad to development programs or Even potentially to us 501c3s who do this kind of work in that environment. How are you building a roadmap to achieve these goals? Because they are very ambitious but they're also ones that you know you can achieve. I mean you've been doing it all along the path. There's just an expansion of that. But our economic environment has kind of shifted just radically in the last few months.
- [47:48]
Jay Frost
What are your thoughts?
- [47:50]
Ashley Huft
We are very. I have many friends who worked at USAID and I have seen at great organizations funded by usaid. So we the Unbound was is fortunate we did not do not did not receive any government funding. All of our funding comes from well the large majority comes from the sponsorship from people giving $40 a month. So it has made us really pretty resilient. I wasn't at Unbound during the time but I even understand during times like the 2008 financial crisis we didn't take much of a of a hit. The other thing is the way people sponsors usually come to Unbound. I mentioned that our founders were were Catholics and very deep in their faith and very and unbound its approach is principles of Catholic social doctrine. We have and one of the primary ways that we that sponsors come to us is we have a group of priests and this started by our founders back in the early 2000s or late night, late 1990s early 2000s. We have a group of mostly retired but some are semi retired priests who go around the country during a weekend and they relieve a local parish priest and they do the Mass and during Mass they talk about Unbound and people go to the front of the church and they pick up a folder and they sponsor and they are doing it out of a deep sense of faith and and wanting to make a good do something good in the world and live out their faith through that. It is as a result our sponsors stay with us. So after their child. I should mention we also have an elder sponsorship program which is we're the only ones and it's remarkable. And that is such a population that's in need of support around the world as well. But after their youth retires from the program graduates, they'll. They'll take another and most of them sponsor many and then they also are so they'll leave us unbound in a state gift. And so we have a very loyal base of. Of supporters and donors. We are part of our strategic plan right now is also is to grow in other faith communities. I, I'm not Catholic. I grew up Methodist. I do believe there's something in our approach, something that is very moving. Moving. You are able to really make a direct impact in someone's life. And $40 is not nothing by any means, but it's. It's doable and it's transformative for someone on the other end. And what I'm hoping through all of this right now where, you know, as a country we are making a decision to pull back from our role as, you know, with humanitarian aid that more and more people. I know the need is great. I know local needs here in Kansas City, the number of organizations that have lost funding, but that people, more and more people will find their way to unbound as a way to support and make an impact in some of the most vulnerable, marginalized people's lives across the world. So I have right now remain very optimistic for our future. In particular, I'm probably more concerned about the value of the dollar than I am fundraising because with that, you know, the purchasing power of the dollar for our local teams and the families has already been and chances are it's going to be more effective. But in terms of our fundraising and our outreach efforts, I'm hoping this is a time where more and more and more people. There's a lot of need and more, more people will step in to fill that gap. And I know there's. That. That's a call from many organizations right now, but I do believe we. We have something special to offer people who do want to make an impact. There's a true connection and a true community being formed. You're not just sending and some people if you want to do. That's. That's. That is wonderful. If you want to just send a check. But. But there is a. There's a way there to. To make more of an impact through. Through the personal relationship. And just as another story, I. I met. I was just in India and met a woman who had. Had been sponsored and then a scholar. She now she had graduated. She was a software engineer and she was coming back and she was addressing a group of scholars. We were meeting with a group of current scholars unbound in our. Our project in Tamil Nadu state. And she told them, she said she was talking about what it meant to her to be part of Unbound. And she had not. She did not have a very stable home life, didn't have a lot of. Her parents weren't very present. And there were times in her life that she felt on the verge of suicide that she wasn't. Didn't want to live anymore. And she would receive a letter from her sponsor that would say, you're not alone, and, you know, I love you. And it's literally. It literally saved her life. And those stories abound in, in unbound. And I think, you know, there is for the people that really want to not only provide some needed financial support, but really be support of confidence and love and encouragement to someone. We're a vehicle for that.
- [53:56]
Unnamed Interviewer
So, Ashley, I mean, it sounds like you get so much fulfillment out of this. What's the hard part for you, the.
- [54:03]
Jay Frost
Hardest part for you?
- [54:05]
Ashley Huft
Well, I worry every day. I worry about that wait list. It's still, you know, we are, we are growing. You know, we are. Our numbers are growing, but it's, It's. It's a slow climb. It's. And with, you know, at every church appeal that. That happens on a weekend, if we get, you know, there's three or four hundred people in the, in the church pews, and we'll get 26 to 30 on average signups. And I want more. I want, I want. Why. I'm constantly, we're constantly thinking, how can we get 50? How can we get 100? You know, it's just I, I see the need. I. I travel again India recently, and I met a community and the community of the immigrants from other parts of India who are making bricks and just in dire, dire circumstances. And they're, they owe loans to the, The. The owner of the brick company, and half of them are already sponsored, half are not. And I sit there and, you know, keeps me up at night how every single one. I want every one of them off our wait list. And so, you know, we're constantly innovating. We're constantly, you know, trying to figure out how to make that connection, how to, you know, whether it's through media efforts, through other, other churches, how to, how to grow. And it's, It's. It's a lot of work, and it's not. There's not a clear, clear answer as.
- [55:38]
Unnamed Interviewer
You'Re pursuing the answer. I know that you have not just this strategic plan goal of 20, 30 and 400,000, but that pillar, the real goal of eliminating poverty. So when you think about this, do you think, is that something you imagine is possible, whether through partners or what? I mean, is it possible for us to finally tackle this thing which keeps us all up at night?
- [56:07]
Ashley Huft
Well, it's what attracted me to Jeffrey Sachs in the first place was his optimism. I mean, the world has the resources, we have the knowledge, we have the technology. I mean, it's the will that's not there. And I. And even with our new strategic plan and the pillar eliminate poverty, we've, I've heard directly from sponsors like this is, this is beautiful, well written, it sounds great. But I mean, come on, do you really think, do I think poverty will be eliminated in my lifetime around the world? Probably not. But can it be? Yes. And I've seen it. I mean, I've seen it with, you know, one family after another in Uganda, in Lima, Peru, in Medellin, in India. So I know it's possible on a one by one person basis. And that's what drives me forward is knowing, you know, I don't know if we can eliminate it for the 700 million people in extreme poverty today, but I certainly know for the 250,000, 400,000 families of unbound or more, hopefully it's possible.
- [57:22]
Jay Frost
Well, that's it for this episode of the PM podcast. You can learn more about Unbound at Unbound.org Our thanks to our sponsor, Donor Search, the world leader in AI powered fundraising intelligence solutions for the nonprofit world. Our producer is Jack Frost and our theme music is Moving Out, Moving in by Jay Taylor and has provided courtesy of Epidemic Sound. If you like what you heard, make sure to subscribe wherever you like to listen. Check out our sister shows, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Raise. And come back next weekend for another conversation with a leader in the world of social good. Until then, this is Jay Frost. Thanks for joining me.