← The PM Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
When folks say to me, it's too much, it's too overwhelming, the problems are too broad and sweeping, and there's nothing I could possibly do to help. Who is one person that you could help in your sphere? Who is one person that you can see? Someone in your world that you can help in some substantive and meaningful way? And so that's what I would encourage people to do.
- [00:26]
B
Welcome to the PM Podcast, brought to you by Donor Search, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy, and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost. Today's guest is Natalie Silverstein, an author, speaker, and podcast host whose work is all about inspiring kindness and service in families and teens. Natalie is the founder of the New York affiliate of Doing Good Together and the host of the award winning podcast, Simple Acts Big Impact celebrating Teen Changemakers, where she highlights incredible stories of young people making a difference. She's also the author of two nationally recognized books, Simple Acts the Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back and Simple the Busy Teen's Guide to Making a Difference. Maybe we'd just begin by learning a little bit about your origin story. And I know that you have a career in public health and that influences everything that you've done to today, but how did even that begin? Where. Where are you from?
- [01:28]
A
I'm from New Haven, Connecticut, and I was raised by folks who came here after World War II from Ukraine, which could be a whole other podcast episode, right? With what's going on in Ukraine now, nearly three years, which is unbelievable. But my mom and dad came over. They actually met each other in a DP camp, a displaced persons camp, Germany, which we would call a refugee camp today. So all of these words that mean different things today than they did after World War II, but they came to the U.S. they reunited here in New York City, and they were married. And so they moved to New Haven. And I was born and raised there. And what's kind of funny about that is I went to Yale for my graduate work and I would meet new classmates or whatever, and they would say, where are you from? And I'd say, new Haven. And they'd say, no, no. I said, where are you? And I'd say, no, no. I. I'm really from here. People actually live here. If you just drive up the road and take a left, you'll find my mom's house. So I went to college in Rhode Island. I came back. I worked at a hospital. My undergraduate is also in health policy administration. I worked at A hospital in New Haven. And my boss there, the. The president of the hospital, encouraged me to go back to school to Yale and get a master's in public health. And so then after graduation, I moved to New York and started my. Started my family and all that good stuff.
- [02:57]
B
What was the interest in public health? Was that something from early on?
- [03:01]
A
Well, you know, it's funny, I had scoliosis as a child, and at that time, as a teenager or young, a tween, I think we would call that now, from like 12 or 13 years old. So that just means that I grew very quickly and my. My spine couldn't keep up. And in those days, I don't think it's done today very much, but I was braced. So I had to go to a place called the Newington Children's Hospital, which I believe is now called the Connecticut Children's Hospital, to stay overnight, to be sort of fitted and to be taught how to use this thing. I mean, I was not ill, right? I just had a curvature in my spine that they were trying to correct in the only way that they knew how to do it at that time. And so my parents dropped me off at this hospital and I had this kind of wonderful experience. You know, everyone there, the child life specialists, the nurses, the doctors, the orthopedists, you know, all of these folks were so kind, kind and wonderful to me. And I thought, wow, this is something I might like to work in an environment like this. But I knew I didn't want to be a clinician. And so that sort of percolated for me all through high school. Like, how can I help people but not do anything with blood needles? And so health policy administration just sort of popped into my head that I could be in that environment where people were being helped and I could be part of that. And. But not being sort of the blood and the guts of it. So I applied to college as a health policy major. I really liked it. It was a very small major where I went to college. And then getting a public health degree for a master's was fascinating. And I learned so much. And some of my classmates at Yale went on to do incredible things. To be the, you know, the chief of Doctors Without Borders and to work on the COVID vaccine. I mean, you know, it is. Public health touches so much. It. It really touches almost everything. And I'm just sort of proud to have studied it and to be able to apply, like, a tiny, tiny little piece of what I learned in the work that I'm doing now.
- [05:06]
B
It's Fascinating, though, because I wonder how things might have been different. Maybe they wouldn't have been, but it might have been different had your initial experience been negative. If those people who received you hadn't been as. As and hadn't made you feel comfortable and like this was going to be a positive experience.
- [05:27]
A
Well, absolutely. And isn't that sort of the answer to everything? Right. I mean, I think that one small shift in your reality can change the whole course of your life. And also, it just brings up this point of, like, every interaction that you have with a person can change them and can mentor them and can help them to see themselves in a different way and to see their future in a different way. And this is what I talk about all the time with the teens that I work with in terms of finding their purpose and their passion through service and the mentors that I work with. To say, if you mentor a young person so they can see themselves in this type of role, you have to see it to be it. Right. And everyone should have access to these types of resources and these types of relationships, you can change someone's life. So that's a very good point. I might have been totally terrified of the hospital setting and never want to step foot in one ever again, but I had the opposite experience, and it changed what I did with my life. Yeah.
- [06:27]
B
Do you remember how you felt going there? You said your parents dropped you off. That already sounds a little scary.
- [06:32]
A
I know. I was 13. I mean, I wasn't a little child, but I remember my dad. So, you know, again, my parents came here, did not speak a word of English. You know, a classic immigrant story. Not a dollar in their pocket. My dad, in fact, came to this country with fake papers, meaning he had somehow forged documents so that he could enter this country again. We could have a whole other podcast about. I sit here as a birthright citizen of the United States, but my dad was a woodworker. He was incredible with his hands. He was the hardest working person I've ever met. And so he drove me up to the hospital in his truck. He was a carpenter. And I remember he was nervous and he was upset, and I don't think he wanted to drop me off because he didn't know what was going to happen to me in there, but he did. He said, okay. He said something like in Ukrainian, like, be brave or be strong. And he. He let me out of the truck and I went in. I know that's, like, going to sound insane to people today. You know, the way that we transport our children around and treat them like they're made out of eggshells. But I was not. I was certainly not raised that way, so. And it made me a little tougher for it.
- [07:44]
B
I think being the child of. Of immigrants, I can imagine that that must have been a fraught existence for them if they're navigating their way through a new culture, relatively new culture, and certainly language. You must have been in a. In a role where you were. A lot was demanded of you early on to communicate maybe with them or even for them, and to navigate experiences like that with a great degree of agency.
- [08:15]
A
Sure. I mean, I was the youngest of four, and I have a sibling who is 20 years older than I, so it's an unusual family dynamic. Right. So my oldest brother was actually out of the home when my mom had me, but again, she had him at 18 and had me at 38, so that, you know, and there were two other children in the middle there. So in terms of communicating for them and all of that, that was not so much my role, probably much more so my oldest brother and my sister who came after. But certainly it's an interesting experience to be the child of immigrants in terms of. They spoke to me in Ukrainian. I answered back to them in English. Typically. I was the first in my family to go away to college, literally the first one to get a graduate degree on my own, and went out and did that. So navigating the world and being such an American person, American child of these, you know, very typical Ukrainian people, they, you know, their church, their friends, their language. When they spoke of Ukraine, they said, back home. So to them it was. They were still in this foreign land, and they were living there and raising their family and all of those things. But Ukraine was home to them, which, again, given what's going on there now. My mom passed away in the fall, just before Russia's invasion of Ukraine three years ago. And I'm actually grateful that she passed and didn't have to see this, because I think it would have been really heartbreaking for her. But, you know, it's funny. We're going to get to talking about philanthropy, and oftentimes people will say, like, your parents must have been so philanthropic, and that must be why you do this work. And the truth of it is, obviously, they worked really hard to put food on the table and to keep us safe and well in their home. And, you know, they were, you know, typical immigrants to this country who, you know, they didn't have a credit card. Never. They paid cash. My dad paid cash. For. For everything, including cars. Right. You know, they had several homes. They owned a home that was like a rental property. I mean, they were just incredibly hardworking people. My mom cleaned offices for a living, but they taught me that you take care of others when they need you. Right. So new immigrants would come. People would come and stay at our church or whatever, and if they needed something, of course, everybody would. All hands on Dec. My dad helped to build the church in New Haven. That's why they moved there from New York City. My mom would always have us watch the Jerry Lewis telethon. I am dating myself here, aging myself, but we would watch that, and I would be so moved by it that I would call on the telephone and pledge a few dollars of my babysitting money or whatever, and she would give me an envelope, and we would put cash in the envelope and mail it to the muscular dystrophy. Was it muscular dystrophy? Yes. You know, their sense of philanthropy was, of course, taking care of other Ukrainians, helping their church. Of course. And my mother also had a soft spot for the St. Jude Children's Hospital. And I don't know if that's because she really liked Danny Kay or what that was about, but she always, always would take a few dollars and put them in an envelope and send them to St. Jude Children's Hospital. So these tiny little things stick with you from childhood that we do what we can. Right. As much as we can give. We give. The basket comes around at church. We put. We put as much as we can in there. It was very thrilling for me as a teenager to get my own envelopes for church.
- [11:54]
B
So I was going to ask you if that. If the church experience was a part of this as well. It sounds like it was that kind of regular contribution being prompted, provided that again, that agency to give your own through.
- [12:09]
A
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you'll agree that one of the challenges right now in terms of philanthropy and service is that I think the statistics show that people are really moving away from organized religion, from congregational life. And for many of us, we were raised going to church or going to temple or going to mosque or, you know, whatever it was, and that we did so much service there, either on a Sunday or on a Saturday. It was a part of that communal life and the tithing that went on, this responsibility that you had to give as much as you could. And maybe it wasn't a lot to keep the church running, to keep the lights on, to keep the heat, to take care of the poor in your Community. So religious institutions. And we can say a lot about them, and we can say some bad things about them, certainly, but those were places where people could find opportunities to give back, where it was expected of them to do so. And they taught their children that this is what we do. We go to worship and we go to do community service and we go to give philanthropy. And so the moving away from that structure, I think, is part of the issue of folks feeling detached from philanthropy and service today.
- [13:23]
B
Yeah. We are what we repeatedly do.
- [13:26]
A
Right.
- [13:28]
B
The old line. And you had a family that was committed to that, so you grew up within it. That became. It sounds like a part of your experience, and then certainly who you are, independent of that. I wonder how that might invest itself in other kinds of relationships and institutions. You were comfortable then going to the hospital, which I still think is pretty amazing as a 13 year old, but you got out of that and then you decided to go into public health. That must have meant that you had some degree of trust in public health.
- [14:00]
A
Sure. Oh, absolutely. And these institutions that again, you know, when you go to the hospital, when you go to the doctor, I was taught that these people knew what they were doing. And so we would listen to them, we would respect them. Right. They were kind of held up almost on a pedestal. Right. So if a grandmother or grandparent was in the hospital or whatever, you know, it was not even a question. We were running over there to see them and to thank the nurses. Nurses and the doctors who cared for them. Right. So, again, this respect for institutions and for these places where these folks have a level of training that we don't have, we rely on them to do this important work. Right. We rely on the scientists to come up with the vaccines and the medicines and the things that we need to keep ourselves healthy and safe. So, yes, I was absolutely taught that this was something important, that these were community organizations and places that good things happen that people were taking care of. Right. And in my work in the hospital as a very young person, like, the minute I graduated, I was, what, 22 years old, and I worked for the president of the hospital. Bizarrely, I got this job, I kind of dropped into it, and I would write speeches for him and I would write his correspondence. It was kind of a bizarre, like, I learned so much about the. The world, the inner workings of hospitals through this job. But he would send me, like, literally to the emergency room when a firefighter had been gravely, gravely injured. And I was his liaison to, like, meet with the family and talk to the staff and Try and get the other firefighters to leave because they all come in, right, and they're all standing around and there's no space for them. And it was an incredible opportunity to see that, that this is a special and important place and that everybody needs the tools that they need to do the work. And I was kind of, you know, out of the frying pan into the fire right off the bat. And, you know, obviously it made me just have tremendous respect and admiration for people who put their lives on the line every single day. The firefighters, the first responders, and of course, the folks who work in the hospitals, the nurses and the doctors and the maintenance staff and the cleaning staff and the porters and the orderlies. I mean, a hospital is an incredible place full of very caring people who are sometimes underappreciated, I think.
- [16:30]
B
How long are you working in the medical field?
- [16:33]
A
Oh, five years at that hospital and then moved to New York and worked more on the for profit side. So I worked in insurance companies, managed care companies, I worked in Medicare managed care for a little while. When that became a thing, worked for a few startups. So it was always in the healthcare field, but wasn't always in the nonprofit field.
- [16:55]
B
Sure, but you made your way back into the nonprofit world. So how did that transition occur?
- [17:01]
A
Well, so after my third child was born, I think, you know, the first two children, I did try to get back to work. I was a consultant in private practice, and I actually helped a hospital system to implement the HIPAA rules, if you can believe that, back in those days when HIPAA was a thing, that you had to have new policies and procedures in place. So one of my first consulting gigs was helping a hospital in Connecticut to do that. But after my third child was born, my husband traveled a lot for his work. I decided it was probably time to stay home. And so, like many women, typically many people who stay home with their children for any length of time, you get involved in philanthropy work for the schools and for local communities. And I sat on boards and I did a lot of fundraising. And I was a writer. I always had enjoyed writing. And I was asked to actually by some friends who had started a few nonprofits to help them with their communications. And so because of my healthcare background and these particular nonprofits were around different cancers, different disease states, I was able to help them communicate their mission and write, you know, newsletter articles and all of that kind of stuff. So my writing skills, you know, again, typical woman here. You know, over educated, underutilized, jack of all trades. I'm really good at asking for money. I'm really good at helping to organize things. I was the parents association president. You know, it's kind of like stereotypical here, but so I just kind of gathered all of these random collection of skills, and then that sort of drew me into this world of helping other families to figure out ways that they could serve meaningfully in the community with their children. And how did that happen? It's because I was doing that with my own kids, and I knew that that was an important thing to do.
- [18:54]
B
But you went over this thing very briefly that made other people shudder, which you said, I'm really, you know, it's really good at raising money. And so was that something that came naturally to you or what?
- [19:08]
A
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was. I have no idea where this skill came from. Right. Like, I wasn't raised with this at all. Again, I shared with you, if it was $5 in the envelope that was going in the basket. Right. It would never have occurred, growing up to be a person who asks for those funds or to be on the phone call, ready to be on the other end of the phone at the Jerry Lewis telethon. But when I started volunteering with my children's school or with other organizations, it just seemed sort of obvious to me. First of all, my husband and I were lucky enough to have the resources that we could donate, and we knew that to be important. Right. We know instinctively that if we are lucky enough to have resources, we need to share them with the institutions and the organizations that we care about. And so, for example, with the kids school, they went to a private Jewish day school for nursery, elementary and middle school. It's a nursery aid school. And so we really believed in the mission. We believed in what they were doing. We thought they were partnering with us to help us raise kind, compassionate, empathetic humans. And so we believed in the school, and we wanted the school to have the resources it needed to do right by every child. And so I would be part of the annual fund committee. And then, of course, I was chair of the annual fund for many years because I had no problem asking other parents, join me and grandparents, please join me in supporting the school so that I'm not asking for this money for my child. I'm asking for all of our children and for all of the wonderful teachers that they have and for all of the staff members to get the raise that they deserve. Right. So it makes just complete, logical sense to me that if I believe in something, the mission of something, then I. And I Am supporting it with my financial resources. I have no problem asking you to join me in that and explaining to you why I believe that this work is important. I have a story to tell. I can share with you the mission of the organization, which is why my husband and I write a check and I'm asking you to join me. And if you can't, I totally understand. If you want to think about it, great. If the answer is no, okay, thanks for listening and on to the next. And so I think that ability to just let like water off a duck's back if someone says no to you and you've asked them for money. And again, I'm not asking for myself. I'm not going shopping with this money. Right. I'm asking on behalf of this organization that's doing really important work. And if you can't or you won't, I totally understand you have your own financial, philanthropic priorities. Rather, I'm going to move on to the next person and see if I can't tell them why this is special, why they should be a part of this. And that's just. That was my kind of secret. And it's. I don't think it's super hard and maybe I have a tough skin or something. And have I been hung up on asking people to support the school? If they were mad, of course I have. But that's more about them. That's not about me. They aren't mad at me. Right?
- [22:07]
B
Yeah. No. All of that makes infinite sense. But it sounds so comfortable the way you've talked about it, especially because you talked about testimony, you know, you and your husband have given. And so this is why. And now would you like to join us? And then being able to receive whatever that response is, charitably, you know, if they say yes, great. If they say no, that's fine too. But this is getting into the weeds. I haven't done this with anybody before, but this is fascinating to me. You talked about being raised, I guess in the Ukrainian church, so Russian Orthodox or something like that.
- [22:40]
A
Right. It's just, it's Eastern, right? Ukrainian Catholic, Yeah. That's not. Not Orthodoxy, but yes.
- [22:45]
B
And so you were raised in the church, but then your kids were going to a Jewish day school. So is your husband Jewish?
- [22:51]
A
My husband is Jewish, yes. My husband is Jewish.
- [22:53]
B
And you were working or your kids were attending this school and then you being raised in the, in the, in this church are going and asking people who are members of the Jewish day school for support. I'm just wondering how that experience was I don't know if you had converted or not, but.
- [23:12]
A
No, I, I had not. I, I have not yet converted. I, but I do like to say that Catholics make the best Jews because we are, you know, ritual is very important. So I say this all the time, you know, I, I believe that my children needed to be raised in a faith, right? And they needed to be raised in community. And our temple is a reformed temple. For anyone, listen will matter, right? Because as a non Jew, I would not have been welcomed with open arms to do anything to send my children or to raise money for an orthodox place. And I understand that everybody's got their. That's true in Catholicism, that's true in every religion, right? So we join this really lovely Reform Jewish synagogue here in Manhattan and it has a day school. And the way that they raise these children, the values that are intrinsically a part of this Jewish day school are service to others, repairing the world, you know, kindness, gratitude, love of your neighbor. I'm pretty sure those are the values that I was raised with or should have been raised with in the Catholic Church. So it's a no brainer to me, right? So we, I insisted that if we were going to do this thing, we were going to do it right? And so the kids would be, they would be converted, they would go to Jewish day school, they would understand these values. They would understand that intrinsically it is their role to help repair a broken world. And that is kind of a foundational value of Judaism. And so I really love the experience the kids were having at the school. I thought it was an important place because as opposed to a secular school, a secular private school or a public school, in most states, the values that are being imparted, I hope our kindness that we don't bully each other, that we treat each other with this respect. But here, this was foundational, this was part of the mission. And so I, you know, I kind of drank the Kool Aid early on, which is, you know, when I got involved in the Parents association and all that, I sat on the board for many years. And so again, just, it just seemed sort of natural and obvious to me that we wanted our teachers to be paid well so that they would stay so that they wouldn't be taken away by other schools that could pay them better. Right. The teachers that were there understood the assignment. They had these values as well. And not all of the teachers were Jewish, but they understood that these are the intrinsic values that we're trying to impart in these human beings that we're raising and so I just. I believed in it, and I wanted to help. I wanted to help make it stronger. I wanted to help make it better. I also think a very important thing about philanthropy is every single institution that you're a part of that you're enjoying. Someone else built that before you, some generation before you took their time and their money and their sweat and their effort to build it, and you are enjoying the fruits of their labor. And now it is your role and responsibility to do what you can for the next generation to make it better, to build it up so that they can enjoy it. So, you know, we stand on the shoulders of others. My dad had literally, physically helped to build the church in which I was raised in New Haven, Connecticut. And so, again, it is the folks who are still members there, and I still send money there. It is now our responsibility to continue it so that future generations can enjoy it. And that's true for you. Name it. Right? Museums and schools and houses of worship and everything. Everything that you see.
- [26:49]
B
And these are all foundational principles you're talking about. So if it's. And I thought about this in terms of not just Jewish donors, Christian donors, you know, Muslim donors, but rather one person from one experience being able to talk from a position of experience and commitment, the why of things, to another person, perhaps of a different background, we can get comfortable with that if we are talking in a way that's foundational. So I love that example, and it just shows that it can be done. And you were doing it with your kids. It must have been something, though, for your kids to see that, too. I mean, for their parents, coming from. It sounds like slightly different experiences. I don't know what your. Your. Your husband's family was like, but if you came from an immigrant family and then you're. You come from, at least originally, different religious backgrounds, there you are together. They're going, knowing they're having this foundational experience in this one school. They must have been starting to also internalize these messages, not just from the school itself, but from the two of you, including about philanthropy. Were they also getting the same kinds of experiences that you and presumably your husband had that envelope of your own and the giving to the telethon?
- [28:04]
A
I mean, I certainly hope so. I think that the stories that I like to tell about my kids focus a little bit more on hands on service, which is really what my books and work is about. It's not as much about the money. Philanthropy is such a big part of our lives. And of course, they understand that this is we are philanthropic people. This is who we are. We have the means and that, therefore, that's what we do, and that's what we will continue to do. But when they were younger and as they were growing up, I hope, and I think the stories that they would tell you if they were here would be about the times that we went, went out and served in our community. And we would do that on a regular and consistent basis. And we would do that as a part of our holiday traditions, et cetera. And that is what I try to impart to people, is that this isn't something that should just be like a switch you start doing when a child turns, like 13 or 16 or whatever. This should be a part of the way that you move through the world. And that's what you're teaching your children. You are living your values. Right. And that starts with thanking the person who holds the door for you or putting, you know, change in the little, little box that says college fund at the coffee shop. And then that moves on to taking your children by the hand into your community and doing hands on direct service, which is really what the two books that I've written is about. And so to me, hopefully, those are the things that stick with them. The philanthropy, of course, as well. But for me, the service is primary.
- [29:30]
B
Sure. And that expansive definition is one that certainly I embrace and I hope all of us do. Do you remember maybe one of the first experiences with the kids where you engage them in some kind of service or action, civil action?
- [29:47]
A
Sure, sure. I actually was just thinking about this. Today we are recording this on the International Day of Remembrance of the Holocaust, January 27. And there is an organization here in New York City called dorote, which is a really wonderful senior services organization. It both invites seniors to come in and play chess and have activities and learn things and whatever. And it also sends volunteers, volunteers, adult volunteers, and also family volunteers out into the community to do friendly visits. And so it's just trying to combat the isolation and the loneliness that tend to creep in as folks get older. Particularly here in New York City. You would think, oh, in a city of 8 million people, that the elderly are surrounded by friends and family. It's quite the opposite. They tend to be quite isolated. And so when my kids were quite young, My youngest is 17, and I know we started doing this when. Before she was born. So I believe I was pregnant their first year. We would be matched with an elderly person to go out and do a visit at a holiday. And so this was for Hanukkah one year and we were matched with a couple and they were Holocaust survivors and Betty and Freddie Schwartz of blessed memory. And we went out and visited with them and Derote would give us a little baggie of cookies and candles and a Hanukiah and matches and little dreidels and all the things. So we would go out and have this wonderful visit and they were, you know, the most wonderful, the most welcoming, the sweetest people in the world. The gentleman had had a stroke, so he was non communicative, but the woman was still really spry and ran around and brought us food. So we just fell in love with them. We went back to see them year after year after year on Hanukkah. You know, one of the nights of Hanukkah. And for me, having grown up not with Hanukkah, but with Christmas, I was like, we're not doing eight nights of gifts. I don't know who invented this, but that is not how it's going to go. You'll get a couple of gifts, but we're not. One night we will go do a Derote visit and one night we will bake cookies for our neighbors and one night we'll do some other service. So that became one of our every sing annual holiday traditions. So much so it got to the point where Hanukkah would be coming up and my kids would say, what night are we going to see Betty and Freddie Schwartz? And of course, you know, they passed away after several years, but I. I mean, I think we went seven or eight years to see them. And one year I called a wrote to have the match, you know, to find out what night we would be going. And they said they had given Betty and Freddie's visit to another family. And I said, oh, no, no, they belong to us. Those are, those are our people. They're our friends. We would go to their home and our. My children's photographs would be up and things that they had drawn for them would be up on their refrigerator. You know, to me, that experience, they will tell you they won't remember the Barbie doll or the Lego set or any of the things that they got for Hanukkah for gifts when they were children, right? No kid can tell you what they got unless it was the most important gift. Right? But no one's going to remember the Barbie doll, but they're going to remember doing those visits with Betty and Fred Schwartz. And I don't know, that feels like a huge win to me. I think that those are meaningful things that teaches kids they had been learning about the Holocaust in their school, obviously. But to meet people who had survived, it is a very different thing. And to feel affection for and to feel like a part of their family and to see their photos on the refrigerator and to. And to grieve them when they passed, you know, that. That's a. That's a story I come back to all the time, because I knew I had sort of figured it out when they said, what night are we going to see the Schwartzes? Okay.
- [33:41]
B
That was the process of your kids coming up. And they're. They're older now. How old are you?
- [33:46]
A
Yeah, 24, 21, and 17. Yeah.
- [33:51]
B
So you had a lot of experience, not only with your own family, but with all these other families, people that you were in touch with as you did this work. Was that part of the inspiration, then, for the writing? I mean, because you have two books on this, but one is specifically focused on teens, the other one's on families. What was the origin of that? Was it coming from the experience with your kids, or.
- [34:14]
A
Yeah, I mean, I started out when they were young, and I started to get really frustrated that there weren't a lot of opportunities to serve with them in the city. You know, we live in a city of 8 million people where there is tremendous need and yet tremendous wealth. I just could not believe, you know, it's such a crazy place, But I couldn't believe that there are all these wonderful organizations that serve folks in our city who are in need. And they were shutting their doors to us because my kids were, you know, whatever, 10, 8, and 5. I get it. I get that they don't want little children running around. But whenever I would push back and say, well, you know, is it okay if I bring my younger daughter? I'll stay with her. I'll sign a release form, and they would say, oh, well, if you'll. You know, if you'll come with them. It's always like, of course I'm coming with them. I'm not dropping them off at the door. But, you know, I. I could not believe that in a town like this one, with. With so many nonprofits, so many people who need our help, that there were so few opportunities available to us as a family as my children were growing up. And so I was committed to fixing that or to finding the opportunities. And then once that started happening, I became that person in the community. Like, why don't you ask Natalie where you should donate your coats? Why don't you ask Natalie what you can do for a bar mitzvah? Project. I actually partnered with an organization called Doing Good Together, which is a national nonprofit out of Minneapolis. They were doing a family friendly volunteer opportunity sort of newsletter on a monthly basis. And I reached out to the founder, this is over a decade ago now, maybe 12 years ago. And I said, I want to start doing what you're doing, but in New York City, I want to sort of franchise your idea here as a volunteer. And of course, in typical fashion, like she's always dreamed of spreading her message and making Doing Good Together something that's nationwide. So I was the first sort of local affiliate for Doing Good Together. So this listing, I still do it to this day, and it comes out, it's free, it's monthly, and it has a listing of 10 to 15 family friendly volunteer opportunities. So as soon as that's work started, it was sort of a snowball. And I just thought to myself, there are so many people who want this information and there really aren't very many guidebooks on how to do it. And I didn't invent the wheel here. You know, you can, you can Google any of the stuff that I talk about in my books. And yet I think putting it all together in one place is just super helpful for people. So the first book grew out of that work, which is simple. The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back. And it's just a resource guide. It's just bulleted. It's just how to make your kids birthday party. Not so much all about them and piles of toys, but maybe about helping other people. How to find holiday traditions like I talked about with the DRO visits, milestones. I. There's a resource guide at the end. It's just super, you know, just really step by step, really pretty basic. I sprinkled in little personal stories about my kids, you know, times that I totally failed and it was a disaster. I mean, I think it's important to know that it's not easy to volunteer with kids. Right. We all know this. Like, I just wanted to be real about it, but it's. It's just a really practical resource guide. And then as soon as that was published, someone suggested to me that there should be a teen version, which is what came out in 2022, which is directed more specifically to teens as opposed to a parenting guide to help them really think about their talents, gifts and skills and how they might share those to make a meaningful impact in their communities.
- [37:44]
B
Yeah, and I want to unpack both of those a bit because they are different and people listening to you now, their Experience is very different from, you know, if you're a young parent or a parent of young children, from being a parent of a teen and trying to be more of a coach than now.
- [38:01]
A
Right.
- [38:02]
B
I don't know.
- [38:02]
A
Right. It's not dragging them to the thing. It's actually encouraging them to do it themselves.
- [38:06]
B
Right. To get out of the room and go and do the thing that really is going to fill their heart. But, but let's talk about the impediments for a minute because you just talked about one. New York is for those who don't know it. It's exactly as you've described. It's a place of bounty, but a place of, of, of, you know, deprivation too. It's a place where people have great talent, ability and willingness. But it's very hard to connect that to the others who might have those needs or just need a little bit of care like you were providing on those days during Hanukkah to families who were alone. And so have the barriers lessened and maybe just drawing from your book or your experience, what are some of the ways that people can connect their kids to organizations and get past some of the roadblocks? Whether they're just the lack of information or an organization that seems to have some walls up until you say the magic words.
- [39:07]
A
Right. I do think in the, let's say 12 to 15 years that I've been sort of working in this space and sort of focusing on it, things have definitely improved in terms of nonprofits really recognizing that families are, should be welcome, at least in some small way. Perhaps not every day in every volunteer ship, but it would behoove them to come up with a family friendly day on a Saturday perhaps where they welcome families to do hands on service. Because what does that do? It exposes their mission to lots and lots of new people and it opens the door to potential new donors. Let's call it what it is, right. If a place is going to welcome me and my kids on a Saturday and we go and we have a fantastic experience volunteering, we learn a lot, we enjoy our time. We go with other families, I might write them a check at the end of the year. I might be more willing to accept that solicitation for a donation to the annual fund. And so I will just say that my experience with the door slamming in my face, I think that some nonprofits cut off their nose to spite their face by not having a more a wider tent, if you will. And so I am seeing for sure organizations that perhaps 10 or 15 years ago would not have welcomed folks with children or younger teens. Definitely those ages are going down or they're creating different types of opportunities. I think the second thing that I would mention is the pandemic actually shifted this a little bit. The pandemic shut down so much in person volunteerism, obviously for very good reason, and that it's slowly coming back on board. But what the pandemic did is it forced organizations to think creatively about ways that folks could support them virtually. And so there are so many new ways. I think I like to call those things kitchen table kindness. So if you have very little kids or if your kids, you know, it's snowing out or whatever, there are things that you can do at your kitchen table to support a local nonprofit that will then again get you sort of foot in the door. And I think there's a lot more openness to this. Dorote, for example, has tons of opportunities now, which I believe did not exist prior to the pandemic. Where young people call on the phone, they do FaceTime, they have these sort of virtual relationships that they're building and those, you know, obviously everything is better in person and we want to get back in person. But to create virtual opportunities like that, I think again, just widens the net. It just allows more people to participate. Right. And I do think that young people in particular, they're. There are many more, I think internships for tweens and teens to volunteer to learn about the nonprofit sector. It's out there. A lot of it is in my book. You know, there are things out there. You just have to look for them. And this, the most important thing in terms of teenagers certainly is, as you mentioned, it's a very different experience with young children. And with older kids, it's never too late to start. You might say, oh, my kid is 16 and it's too late, or whatever. It's not. But you have to find something that speaks to them and their passions and their talents and their interests and their skills, the things they enjoy doing. Because I can absolutely guarantee that if you force them to go and work in the soup kitchen or the food pantry and they don't want to do that and they're not interested in that, it will be a one off and they'll never want to go back. But if you find something that they're passionate about and that they're interested in and they're allowed to perhaps invite friends to join them and they have a fun time doing it, they will want to go back. And those hours that they need to have or that you want them to have will somehow be a little bit easier to fill. Right. I always say there's a chapter in my book, don't count the hours, make the hours count. Don't tell your kid, don't. Your school should not be like 40 hours or you can't graduate. You're not winning any contests with that. Right. The best thing to do is to help kids find something that they enjoy doing and then they will want to go out there and keep going back. That's just the bottom line.
- [43:23]
B
You know, it strikes me as you're talking about that, that games gaming is not the exclusive province of teens and young adults. But certainly there are a lot of teens and young adults who are playing games and esports and platforms like Twitch have not only been a place where people play and meet people, people in these virtual environments, but there are also places where there's been great civic engagement and lots of philanthropy people making gifts. Because there's a player right there right now on their Twitch stream that's encouraging people to support St. Jude's is that something that you think is a positive development?
- [44:01]
A
Absolutely. I mean, listen, social media as well, like, first of all, let's encourage our kids to follow accounts that are positive and uplifting. You know, like that is the most important thing for your mental health is to surround yourself with positive, hopeful messages and not to go down these rabbit holes of negativity and nastiness. Right. Number one. Number two, this idea that, oh, if you're posting about some service work that you've done, you're just like bragging or something. I totally disagree. If I have gone out and had a fantastic service, hands on volunteer opportunity in the community and I've really enjoyed it and my kids have enjoyed it, why would I not want to share about that? Because again, it's back to what we were saying about the philanthropy. Join me. Here I am at God's Love We Deliver. I'm cutting carrots. They prepare medically tailored meals for folks who are ill for anyone. They give away millions of meals every year. I'm here in the kitchen and I'm doing this volunteer work and I'm meeting these incredible New Yorkers who volunteer here every single day. Come and join me. There are tons of have time slots available. Come sign up. So why wouldn't I post about being at God's lovely deliverer? Of course I am. I'm not bragging. You can do it too. Come and join me. I just think that we have to kind of Shift the mindset a little bit on this. It doesn't matter what your kid is passionate about. There is a way for them to give back using that passion or that interest or that experience or that talent. Your kid loves sports. They can teach younger children how to do that sport, or they can do a fundraiser so that under resourced children can get the things they need to play that sport. Right. Your kid is great on, you know, the computer and gaming. There's a way for every single child to share a talent, a gift and a skill with someone who needs it, you know, period. And that's one of the things that I love to do with. With families. I actually just went and spoke to a group of kids who were preparing for their bar and bat mitzvahs, and I said, shout out some things that you enjoy, Joy, and let me help you brainstorm ways that you can take that thing. You're a dancer. Here's a way that you can, you know, share. Share your love of dance with other people. And isn't that empowering? Isn't that a wonderful way to help our kids feel better about themselves, to give them some confidence, some agency, to have them feel like a sense of responsibility in the world? If you know that there are kids waiting for you at the basketball court because you're supposed to teach them how to play basketball, you're. Someone's waiting on you. Someone's counting on you. I think our kids really need that right now.
- [46:39]
B
It sounds like a lot of this fights the social isolation, which is also another aspect of the current media environment for all of us, for all ages. Because when much of this conversation started, you were talking about New York and how people can be in a city of 8 million people and still be terribly alone. That's definitely true for everybody, but particularly young people whose primary social interaction now may be largely digital and. But if they're in a room, they're shouting out ideas, then they know they're not alone.
- [47:10]
A
That's right.
- [47:11]
B
They may or may not like all those ideas, but they. But they're hearing other people engaged, which is fascinating. And now I know that a big part of your work has been just interviewing other people and podcasting about this. So, yeah, where. Where did that all start? But also where. What are some of the things that you've learned as a result of that, that maybe you didn't imagine, didn't know, really surprised you about the way that people are ready to engage with others now?
- [47:35]
A
Well, the podcast is specifically for teens and tweens, so that's an important point. And that really grew out of the teen book. So I was interviewing and researching and hearing about all these incredible young people doing just phenomenal things in their communities. Kids who are seeing a problem and figuring out a way to solve it. And I thought to myself, I really. These are stories that I don't hear that much. You know, sometimes you might hear one on the evening news or see it in People magazine or something. But that's going to have to be a young person who's, you know, someone has really tried to, like, get their story out there. There are countless, and I mean countless young people doing incredible work in their communities, just quietly doing the thing in their high schools after school, on the weekends. And I just wanted to amplify and celebrate those stories. And so the podcast, which comes out every Wednesday morning, it's Simple Acts, Big Impact is just celebrating these teen change makers and what they're doing. They can be nonprofit founders, fundraisers, activists, you name it, and I am. It is the thing that's giving me the most hope right now, frankly, in the world. I am just so moved by these stories. Stories, typically they start with, well, during the pandemic when we were all home. I was really lonely and sad, and I started doing X. And the stories every week are just. They just blow me away, what these kids come up with. And it can be as small as, you know, putting. Making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. You know, making sandwiches and handing them out on carts to folks who are experiencing homelessness. Business, or as big as having started, you know, a global nonprofit. Right. So I interview. I've. I've interviewed young people as young as, like, seven, eight, nine years old, up to, like, early 20s. And these conversations are just really special. They're short. It's about 12, 15 minutes. I just asked them to start from the very beginning. What was the spark? What was the inspiration? How did this start? And tell me everything. And then we'll kind of go from. Flow from there. What are the. The challenges you faced and how did you overcome them? I think it's important for people to hear that. It's not always easy to have a great idea, but execution is kind of tough. And then how can we learn more? How can we follow? How can we support your work? I mean, you hear from a young man in Atlanta, Georgia, who says that he was out on, you know, running errands with his mother and saw someone experiencing homelessness living on the street, and he was six or seven or eight years old and said to his mom, can that person come back and live with us. Us. Which is a question that I think many parents get certainly here in New York City. Why is that person sleeping on the street? Can't they just come and stay? Why can't they go to a home? Why can't they come and just stay with us? This opens up a tough conversation about what homelessness is and what it isn't. It opens up a conversation about what we could possibly do to help this bigger, very complex problem, but also maybe how we could help one individual school. Right. And so what did he do? He started this organization that creates blessing bags, and then someone donated a truck. And so now this truck goes around and the side pops up and he has these giveaways where he gives away clothing and toiletries and sandwiches and I mean, how could you have a conversation with a young man like that who's 16 years old now? He's been doing this work for like 10 years. It's really special. These are. These are special kids. And I think, think young people get such a bad rap these days. You know, everyone says they don't care. They're just staring at their phones. I completely disagree. Just listen to my podcast and you will disagree.
- [51:15]
B
You know, as you talk about this, it strikes me two things. If anything, you've become more and more and more and more involved in these activities since you started.
- [51:25]
A
Sure.
- [51:26]
B
In fact, I saw that you did the 50, you know, days, you know.
- [51:30]
A
50 for my 50th birthday, on a special birthday.
- [51:33]
B
And. But with. With this, I wonder, does it fuel you or does it sometimes. Is it sometimes also exhausting? How do you keep refueled, especially when the world around us seems determined to create larger challenges for all these, especially young people who are ready to take somebody off the street and bring them back to their house because. Not because they don't know better, but because maybe they do know better than the rest of us. How do you keep fueled knowing that the challenges seem to be, you know, worse every day when there's this great, you know, body of people, especially young people, who are ready to take those challenges on?
- [52:18]
A
Well, you know, the kids keep me going, honestly. I mean, hearing their stories, I could be having the worst week, the worst day. But I am taping a podcast episode with a young person who's just so excited to tell me the story about this thing that they started. And they are so hopeful and so bright eyed and so optimistic. And I always ask them how they're going to grow it, how. How it's going to keep going, how Is it sustainable after you go off to college? Because of course you're going to go to college. I mean, you know, just hearing these stories. And so I, I highly recommend listening to these podcasts because it will really give you a dose of like, wow, we're not just completely off track here. There are still good kids, good people in the world. And sure are some of them helped along by their parents, of course, but the vast, vast majority of them, they came up with this on their own because they're good hearted people and they saw a problem in their community and instead of sitting back and doing what adults typically do and think, A, someone else is going to fix it, B the government's going to fix it, huh, maybe not. They just figure out a way to fix it or to try to, or to help. And the best stories are the times that they, I say, well, how did you get that funding? Or how did you get the city to agree to do that? Or how did the board of Ed. Well, I just kept calling and I kept emailing. I remember this one young lady started a climbing, climbing for community. So she does rock climbing in indoor rock climbing and she wanted to start a program where under resourced kids from her community who had no access to this could come to her job gym. So she asked her gym if they would donate some time and some resources and they said yeah, sure. And then she couldn't find where she would get these kids from. So she starts emailing all over the city, you know, Boys and Girls Clubs and stuff. And she said, I think actually I emailed the wrong guy at this Boys and Girls Club, but then somebody else wrote me back. And so now the Boys and Girls Club comes and they bring them in a van and they do this program and she has volunteers. And I want to point out that this, this is both serving the under resourced in their communities and also giving incredible leadership and volunteer opportunities for other young people because consistently these young people are recruiting their friends and other kids to volunteer with them. So talk about a win, win, win all around, right? This is about civic engagement, right? We don't teach civics anymore, I don't think in our schools. This is about, about strengthening our communities. And I would suggest to you that some of these kids are doing more to strengthen our communities than our Department of Ed, than our local government because they're all so busy spinning their wheels, right? And fighting about budget or whatever. And these kids are just sort of quietly out there doing the work. So I'll tell you when I'm having A bad day or when I'm feeling pretty hopeless. Those are the things that really resonate for me and just remind me that it's all. Hope is not lost. You know, the kids are all right.
- [55:19]
B
What's next for you?
- [55:22]
A
What is next for me? I'm not sure. I've been doing a lot of personal writing, just sort of reflecting on grief and loss and midlife. And I'm right on the edge of an empty nest here. My daughter's a junior in high school, so there's definitely more writing to be done. Done. And I'm not sure what direction that will take. I don't think there'll be another resource guide about volunteering. Someone once said, after these two books, you really should write a book about, you know, adults, how to volunteer as an adult. And I said, oh my goodness, if you can't figure out how to. How to go out and volunteer in your community and you need to read a book about it, I think that's. There's a bigger problem here. But I understood what she was saying as she, you know, wants to. The hope is that what I'm saying is, is inspiring to everyone to want to go out and do this work. But at the end of the day, if someone's not inclined to volunteer, I don't think reading my book will help them to do that. But I think there's some writing in me that's going to kind of go off into a little bit of a different tangent about caregiving and how to be a supportive and kind friend to a person who's going through something difficult that feels like it resonates for me. So. So hopefully somewhere down the road something else will come out. I just think being creative and sharing my stories vulnerably, I think those things, they make me feel better. I think. What's the expression you read so you don't feel so alone. And I write so that I don't feel so alone. So I hope to continue to do that.
- [56:52]
B
I want to ask you about your folks again. Their experience coming here, raising you the way they did. It was obviously very, very important to you. And did you lose your father as well, or.
- [57:04]
A
Yeah, over 20 years ago now. Yeah.
- [57:07]
B
You kind of carefully alluded to the environment we're in right now, both with the war in Ukraine, the Russian invasion, I should say, and then most recently with. With efforts by the US government to restrict refugee flows. And then just in the last couple days also at least a freeze, a three month freeze on Overseas Development Assistance. Lots of different things happening. I'm wondering what your feelings are about these issues right now. Some of the things you've talked about here we might be able to see if we walk down the street, we see that a person doesn't have a home or a meal, so it engages us and maybe we can find a way to address it, whether it's by making the peanut butter and jelly sandwich or by working with an organization, what have you. But some things are invisible. I have a feeling you've seen the invisible. What are your thoughts on those now?
- [58:09]
A
Well, obviously when my parents came here, it was a very different time. And they just as everyone does when they're fleeing war or the, the remains of, of their country after a war has ended, they were just looking for a better life. Right. And I think that that's what predominantly. Sure, some people come here to, to do illegal and violent things, I suppose, but, but the vast majority, in my experience, the vast majority of folks who come here, come here because where they're coming from is dangerous or a disaster and they're coming towards a better life, an opportunity to work hard, to save money, to send that money back home. As I mentioned, my parents called Ukraine home still and that they just want a chance. And that is true for all of the folks that I see in pretty much every nonprofit that serves folks who are under resourced in different ways. Those who were formerly incarcerated, for example, they've served their time. Now they deserve an opportunity to do something positive with their lives. Those who are living marginally or on the streets, that is a very complicated issue. And I try to remind folks that a person is not homeless. A person is experiencing homelessness. They had a home. They no longer do for some reason. And so our goal is to help them to perhaps have a home again. And so for those who come here looking for a better life for themselves, for their children, for folks that they left back home, of course, I have just a tremendous heart for that. And as a first generation American, I certainly do. I think it is too big a problem for us or anyone to really address in a short podcast. But I will say this. And when folks say to me it's too much, it's too overwhelming, the problems are too broad and sweeping and there's nothing I could possibly do to help. Who is one person that you could help in your sphere? Who is one person that you can see someone in your world that you can help in some substantive and meaningful way? And so that's what I would encourage people to do, is to recognize the humanity of this Problem. These, you know, this enormous problem of people that are here undocumented. And remember that the person next to them in line or the person who is cleaning up after them in a restaurant or what have you may be one of these people. And to get to know them and to hear their story and understand who they are, where they came from, and why they're here. And so when it all feels like a little bit too much, perhaps just focus on one person and learn more. Really educate yourself and be curious. Right. Instead of lumping them in with this sort of group, let's really find out what's happening with this person. And is there a way that we can help them? I think that's true for everything. That's true for every social problem that we're experiencing right now. You know, obviously, I. I wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation with you if my parents had not been allowed entry to this country and they had green cards and they were citizens, and I was born here. So therefore, I am a citizen. And I believe that folks who are born here, which is part of our constitution since the 1800s, that's. We are a country of immigrants. None of us really belong here. Right. We're all being really honest, Native American people do. So I. You know, obviously this is a pretty personal and sensitive issue for me personally, and I have a hard time listening to a lot of the rhetoric around this. But I just keep coming back to who can I help today? And encouraging other people to do the same and to remember that these are real people with real lives who are loved and who are parents and who have parents. So I just think recognizing the humanity is so important.
- [62:47]
B
Maybe just the last question, then. You certainly do a lot to help people one at a time and encourage the rest of us to do so as well. And we appreciate that. I wonder what your parents would say about the work that you're doing now.
- [63:03]
A
Well, I hope they would be proud of it. They were not the most effusive people. It was just a very, you know, they just were hard workers. They just kept their heads down. You know, I know that. I know that they were proud of me. I know that my mother certainly was. She wouldn't have said a lot, a lot of flowery words. It's just a kind of a. That generation, I would say. But I would hope that they would see the value of what I'm doing. Much of it was way over their heads. You know, podcasting didn't make a lot of sense. And I'll tell you, though, my books were front and center on my mom's coffee table. And just to see my name on there was, was a proud moment for her. You know, remember, these were folks who came, lived through a war and walked across the continent and, you know, again came here with, with nothing. And to see a child go on to graduate college and get a degree from Yale and move to New York and publish a book and be on the Today show, I mean, they would never say it to me. I'm sure it was pretty exciting for them. For her, he was no longer with us. But yeah, I would hope that they would say that I did my little part to help other people and that's, that's all anybody can do.
- [64:31]
B
Well, that's it for this episode of the PM Podcast. If you would like to learn more about Natalie, her books, or listen to her podcast, visit simpleactsguide.com Our thanks to our sponsor, Donor Search, the world leader in AI and donor research for nonprofit fundraising. Our producer is Jack Frost, and our theme music is Moving Out, Moving in by JT and is provided courtesy of Epidemic Sound. If you like what you heard, make sure to subscribe wherever you like to listen. Check out our sister shows as well, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Raise. And come back next weekend for another conversation with a leader in the world of social good. Until then, this is Jay Frost. Thanks for joining me.