You See Their Joy: A Conversation with Tim Woodward, A Top Five 2025 CNN Hero

Summary

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The PM Podcast: "You See Their Joy"

Guest: Tim Woodward, Executive Director, Animal Rescue Corps

Host: Jay Frost
Date: December 6, 2025

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Episode Overview

This heartfelt episode explores the untold stories behind animal rescue missions led by Tim Woodward, Executive Director and founder of Animal Rescue Corps (ARC) and a 2025 CNN Hero. In a candid conversation with host Jay Frost, Woodward shares how ARC works with law enforcement to address large-scale animal cruelty, the challenges and rewards of their work, the emotional and psychological impact on both animals and rescuers, and the vision for expanding rescue operations nationwide. Listeners gain insight into the realities of animal suffering, the resilience of survivors, and practical steps for community members to fight cruelty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Animal Rescue Corps

• Tim describes his journey from animal lover to advocate during his time at In Defense of Animals (01:49).
• The formation of ARC in 2010 was a response to law enforcement’s limitations in handling animal cruelty due to lack of experience, money, equipment, and shelter space (02:56).
  • "The need was clear… We designed Animal Rescue Corps to be that partner to law enforcement." – Tim Woodward (02:56)
• ARC steps in to extract, triage, and care for animals, and to handle evidence collection during operations.

2. How Animal Cruelty Cases Are Discovered

• Early work involved ARC performing their own investigations and undercover work, but, as reputation grew, referrals began coming from the community and law enforcement (05:48–07:34).
• ARC also assists in “cooperative surrenders,” where overwhelmed or ill caretakers relinquish animals without legal complications.

3. Hoarding Versus Overwhelm: Understanding Cruelty Cases

• Tim distinguishes between pathological animal hoarding (a mental disorder) and well-meaning individuals who become overwhelmed due to lack of resources (07:43–09:37).
  • "Mentally, they still can't let those animals go… But there are also people who just become overwhelmed by trying to help.” – Tim Woodward (07:43–09:37)

4. The Reality on the Ground: Vivid Scenes from Rescues

• Tim provides a visceral description of the physical environments encountered: homes with inches of impacted feces, ammonia levels high enough to be life-threatening, and utter neglect (10:04–12:30).
  • "You can't imagine how anyone or anything would live in these spaces… The darkness, the stench, the fact that there's no breathable air." – Tim Woodward (10:24–12:30)
• Rescuers use protective gear; those living in such conditions are at severe health risk, even if acclimated.

5. Animal Resilience: Healing and the Return of Joy

• Tim discusses how animals recover emotionally and physically after removal from cruelty (13:43–15:01).
  • "You watch them go through about three days of decompression... then they come into the moment and start healing. You see joy come into their life." – Tim Woodward (00:00, repeated 15:01)
• The transformation of traumatized animals is an emotional highlight for the team—especially when they are placed in loving homes.

6. Compassion Fatigue: The Emotional Toll on Rescuers

• Tim acknowledges the psychological weight of the work, emphasizing the importance of a supportive team and self-care (17:26–19:37).
  • "Compassion fatigue is a real thing… but each case is its own reward." – Tim Woodward (17:40–17:59)

7. The Scope of Animal Cruelty: A Nationwide Issue

• Animal cruelty exists everywhere; the type varies regionally, from dog fighting to puppy mills to neglect (19:45–21:46).
• There’s a generational and cultural shift, with communities and law enforcement more proactive than ever.

8. ARC’s Vision for the Future

• ARC remains a small but mighty organization, with ambitions to expand:
  • Establishing more rescue centers in other regions.
  • Building more field teams to respond to disasters and cruelty cases in multiple locations simultaneously.
  • Expanding partnerships and offering training to other organizations (22:07–25:14).
  • "Eventually perhaps there would be three or four ARC rescue centers around the country … to support their own law enforcement." – Tim Woodward (22:54)

9. Community Action: How Listeners Can Help

• Tim advises vigilance and persistence in reporting suspected cruelty, and the importance of professionalism and education when interacting with authorities (25:58–30:15).
  • Learn what constitutes “adequate” food, water, and shelter under law.
  • Request welfare checks; engage animal control, police, or sheriffs as appropriate.
  • "Persistence is important and remaining professional… ultimately they're going to respect the fact that you care about this animal." – Tim Woodward (26:06)
• Vets can be powerful advocates—they are recognized as qualified to establish cruelty.

10. Sustaining the Work: Motivation and Legacy

• Tim reflects on the ongoing motivation: the immediate rewards of each rescue, the connection with animals, and now, finally, the sense that ARC is a sustainable institution (30:44–34:14).
  • “In every single case, there’s several animals… And seeing them transform… that’s an immediate reward.” – Tim Woodward (31:18)
  • “Now…with the CNN recognition, it feels like we are sustainable. If something happens to me tomorrow, Animal Rescue Corps will continue. It will continue to grow.” – Tim Woodward (33:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the animals' transformation:
  “You see eyes that were just kind of dead and confused before, like, begin to brighten and the excitement that they begin to get when you come and sit with them.” – Tim Woodward (00:28 / 15:01)

• On what keeps him going:
  “We don’t have to end all animal cruelty to feel good about changing the lives of these animals today. That’s always inspiring and rewarding.” – Tim Woodward (31:42)

• On ARC’s drive:
  “Once you see pictures of animal suffering, it’s very hard not to try to pursue that.” – Tim Woodward (31:14)

• Advice for concerned neighbors:
  “Educating yourself about… what’s wrong and being able to talk about that in a professional way… Even when [law enforcement] are not immediately receptive, remaining professional, because you’re going to call them back and you’re going to keep calling.” – Tim Woodward (26:32)

• On the generational shift:
  "Now I think... we're creating the change that will help address that and if not, eliminate it, reduce it to the greatest degree possible." – Tim Woodward (21:07)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment Description | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|--------------| | Tim describes animal recovery and joy | 00:00–00:28, 15:01 | | ARC’s founding vision and function | 01:49–05:36 | | Hoarding and overwhelmed caretakers | 07:34–09:37 | | Vivid scenes from worst rescue cases | 10:04–12:30 | | Compassion fatigue and self-care | 17:26–19:37 | | Animal cruelty as a nationwide problem | 19:45–21:46 | | Future vision for ARC and partnerships | 22:07–25:14 | | Advice for neighbors and reporting cruelty | 25:58–30:15 | | Motivation and legacy | 30:44–34:14 |

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Summary Takeaways

• Animal Rescue Corps offers a lifeline in some of the country’s darkest cases of animal cruelty, acting where local resources cannot.
• The emotional transformation of rescued animals is profound and serves as an ongoing motivation for Tim and his team.
• Tim’s vision includes building ARC into a sustainable, nationwide network that supports local partners and law enforcement.
• Listeners are encouraged to be vigilant, persistent, and professional in reporting cruelty; every action can change an animal’s life.

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For more information, visit animalrescuecorps.org.

Transcript

[A]

You watch them go through about three days of decompression and just taking it all in and being reserved. And then they come into the moment and they start healing and they start responding and they want affection and touch and, and they show their appreciation in ways that is just amazing. You see joy come into their life.

You see eyes that were just kind of dead and confused before, like, begin to brighten and the excitement that they begin to get when you come and sit with them.

[B]

Welcome to the PM Podcast brought to you by Donor Search, the show that takes you inside the lives of thought leaders, innovators and change makers in fundraising, philanthropy and civil society. I'm your host, Jay Frost, recognized as one of the top five CNN heroes of 2025. Tim Woodward is the executive director and a founding force behind Animal Rescue Corps, the national nonprofit created in 2010 to confront large scale animal cruelty wherever it occurs. What began with a small team determined to fill a devastating gap in animal protection has grown into a nationwide rescue effort, working hand in hand with law enforcement to save animals from neglect, abuse and disaster. In this episode, he shares what it takes to lead life saving operations, build powerful partnerships and ensure that every animal has the chance to know safety, dignity and care. Tim, thank you so much for being willing to talk today about the organization and your work. And I'd love to start by just asking you how this whole started, the whole thing started. How did the organization start it?

[A]

So in 2010 I was working for an organization in San Rafael, California called In Defense of Animals. And that was the first non profit I had ever worked for and I was learning about animal issues kind of across the board. They weren't a rescue organization.

But I was more of an advocacy organization. So I was learning about everything from the plight of wild horses to over over catch in the oceans to Kore dog issues. You know, just kind of learned issues facing animals across the board and, and always been an animal lover and I was just really soaking it up and looking for a way that I could make some sort of an impact, make a change. And I met a number of other people who had been active in the rescue community in the United States. Former former members of the HSUS resc.

We joined together.

The need was the, the need was clear and that is that law enforcement agencies in underserved communities want to address issues of animal cruelty. They're willing to do it, but they don't have the resource. And that resources everything from experience to money to equipment to space. A lot of the places we work in, they don't have a rescue, they don't have a shelter, they don't even have an animal control officer. And their deputies are not necessarily experienced or have ever dealt with a large scale cruelty case. So we knew the need was there and we designed Animal Rescue Corps to be that partner to law enforcement to when it's a case that is more than they can handle. And to be, to be clear, that could be just five animals, that could be five dogs. If you don't have a shelter or a place to put them, that can be overwhelming. But typically it's 50 to 100 or more animals at a time. And so we are that resource. We come in, we humanely extract the animals from the situation, we do triage to make sure that anybody who needs emergency care is given it immediately. And everyone else gets an initial exam. We're documenting everything the whole time, you know, before we touch anything. Through the whole process, we're documenting and collecting evidence. And then we take those animals to a secure location, usually our rescue center. But it could be an emergency shelter that we've set up and we begin to care for them, they get a secondary exam, they start getting any treatments they need, and we begin to socialize them and evaluate them and care for them for however long it takes until custody is secured. And that's a legal process. I mean, sometimes people will surrender immediately, sometimes it takes a little while. And if you can imagine, you know, your typical, even if there is a shelter, your typical animal shelter is almost always at capacity. And you ask them to take in 50 or 70 animals from a cruelty case, it's going to paralyze them. They won't be able to do anything else. And so the animals in that community will go lacking and suffer while, while they're dealing with this one case. And that's if there is a shelter component to, to the jurisdiction. So we're that resource. We, we make it possible. Because when it's not possible, they just ignore it. They don't, they have no other option. You know, they can't magically rescue animals.

[B]

I'm trying to imagine how these are discovered, these situations are discovered in the first place. Is it always the police or is it a neighbor who suspects something happening? What, what's the origin for that?

[A]

It runs the gamut. But in the beginning we did a lot of our own investigations. Like we would get a tip or we would, you know, hear about an opera breeding operation and we would, you know, do undercover purchases.

And legal surveillance, whatever we needed to do to get enough evidence to establish probable Cause and then go to the authorities and convince them and then would take action. But more and more over the years, it's. As we've built relationships with law enforcement and as we've, you know, built a great reputation in being able to do this type of work and being experts in this type of work, more often than not now, it's either somebody referring us to law enforcement and they contact us or. Or law enforcement is reaching out directly. That's on cruelty cases and criminal cases. We also do a fair of what I call cooperative surrenders. So it'll be somebody who has either they used to be a breeder or they tried to be a rescue, but one way or another, they're now elderly and sick and they've got 50 animals and they don't know what to do and they want to do the right thing and they reach out. And so as long as they're willing to make it a lasting solution, like we're not going to just come in and take part of your animals and let you continue on, they have to be willing to shut down the operation, then we'll come in without law enforcement and work directly with them and to rescue their animals.

[B]

I'm wondering if some of the situations you run into are akin to what we might think of when we think of hoarding.

Something of that nature.

[A]

Yeah, we. And there's, there's. I was just talking about this with a colleague last evening. There's really two types that fall into that. One is true hoarding, which is a now classified as a mental disorder. And that's the, you know, unreasonable collection of either things or animals or both. And then the absolute refusal to dislodge or let go of any of that. You know, they will. They will tell you how much they love the animals and you can prove to them that the animals are in danger, but they mentally still can't let those animals go. And that is true sort of definition, hoarding. And then the other thing that we do, which a lot of times gets called hoarding, and, and perhaps it. It is a form of hoarding, but it's not the true mental disorder type. And that's generally people who are in a community where there were no resources for animals and they started trying to be that resource. And, you know, they first took in a few stray dogs and then people started dumping dog them or cats, and they can't keep up with the spay and neuter. They don't have the financial resources. And before you know it, you've got, you know, a hundred animals on a property and they, they will let the animals go, but they just don't know what to do. They don't have the connections or the resources or the finances to resolve it. And so those people, I, I, you know, I like to help because they're willing to let the animals go once they trust you. And just making the problem with them is making sure they don't try to help again by taking in more animals.

[B]

Right. It sounds like no matter what the cause, the animals are obviously in this really precarious situation and often very dangerous. I've seen a little bit of video that CNN shared as a part of this process of honoring you. And, and I'm, can you paint us a picture for those who haven't seen that or haven't experienced this, don't really know the stories maybe of one of the kind of worst case scenarios of something you've run into, what you saw?

[A]

Yeah, it, honestly, before doing this work, I could have never imagined some of the homes we've been in. I, you, I could not have imagined it. It makes no sense to you. When you're in there, nothing is logical. You know, there is usually.

Mounds of trash and layers, inches, sometimes many inches of impacted feces on the floor. We've had to take shovels to break up the feces to even be able to get doors open enough sometimes to get in and out. You know, you're talking about years of, of filth and neglect and it, and building up in layers. You can't imagine how anyone or anything would live in these spaces. Lots of times you can't even identify a place where someone could sit down. Sometimes there's no place to lay down. And if there is a bed, it's usually so revolting like you wouldn't touch it, of course, but we have to flip it over to look for animals underneath there. The ammonia levels are literally deadly. Sometimes, you know, anything over, you know, 10 or 15 parts per million starts to become a problem. You need, you need protection for that. And we, some of the houses we go in, it's in the hundreds of parts per million. It's ammonia gas so high, and this is from the urine breakdown. Ammonia gas so high that it burns your skin and it burns your eyes. We have to wear protective gear. The people don't, the people that are in there don't realize the jeopardy they're in because their body has adjusted slowly as the ammonia levels rise. So their body is like masking it. But their internal organs, their liver and kidneys are still being highly affected. And so anyway, it. The places that we go into are really unimaginable. And even when you see it on video, it doesn't. You still don't get the overall, the, the darkness, the stench, the fact that there's no breathable air.

It's just, it's. It's quite depressing and astounding. And once you get the animals out of there, it's just. It's even harder to imagine what it is like for these people to come back into that space and be there with none of the animals there now. Because the one thing the animals always give, they. They give unconditional love to anyone. So now these people are alone in that mess. And, you know, again, if it's somebody with mental illness or, or, you know, you. You still have to have some compassion for those people. We just can't let them continue to force that upon the animals.

[B]

Right. Oh, I. It's surprising, as you put it, that humans in that environment can continue to.

Survive in it, even if their bodies are adjusting to it over time. But the animals, are they able to survive? How are they able to survive this? And what does it mean for them to be extracted from it? I mean, not just physically, but also emotionally, the emotional life of these animals?

[A]

Yeah, I. Animals are so amazing. I mean, they truly are inspirationally resilient. A lot of people tell me it's because animals don't really live in the past or the future. They're in the moment. And maybe that's true. I'm not a dog psychologist, but what I do know is what I've seen time and time again. And that is you. You pull an animal out of these situations and, you know, and they've never known anything else. Some of them have never touched the ground. The wind is frightening because they haven't been out in fresh air. They. They don't know what your touch means. They don't know that people are good. You know, just so many things. They're so uncertain. And you watch them go through about three days of decompression and just taking it in and being reserved. And then they come into the moment and they start healing and they start responding and they want affection and touch and. And they show their appreciation in ways that is just amazing. You see joy come into their life.

You see eyes that were just kind of dead and confused before, like, begin to brighten and the excitement that they begin get when you come and sit with them. And I mean, animals recover. I certainly am not an expert on people.

But I don't Think in my, in, in my opinion, I don't think people recover from trauma and lifetime turmoil in the same way that animals do. Animals, we can truly save them. You know, they, they bounce back and then the joy that they experience is, is. And I've had animals that didn't come from suffering personally. I mean, I've. I personally, I've had animals that came, you know, before they, before they suffered and I mean, for. As a pup. And then I've had ones that had a lifetime of suffering. And there's a difference. The ones that, that had it bad and now it's good. They show you. I mean, you see their joy. They just appreciate everything so much more. Even the ones. We did a case earlier, just a few months ago, called Tiny Titans, and it was all of these little Chihuahuas that were so old, barely clinging to life, and now we are. They've. They're all in homes now, and we are obsessed because they are getting spoiled. Their, Their new guardians are spoiling them like you would not believe. And these dogs are having the time of their lives and they may only have a, you know, a few years left at best, but they are going to have the best years they ever had. It's great.

[B]

You talked about the Brazilians, these animals, and how humans. It may be a little bit different. What is it like for you? I mean, you started by talking about how this might have been a horse or a Korean dog or. I don't even know what the situation is with Korean dogs in San Francisco, but it was a very different life, probably dealing with these issues there from dealing with them, let's say, in a more rural area of Virginia. How has it been for you dealing with this? You may have protective gear for your body and your air and your, Your breathing, but you have to experience the exposure of these animals and then watching them as they try to come out of their shell. How are you?

[A]

Yeah, I. I mean, I. Well, first I should acknowledge that compassion fatigue is a real thing. Many people, you know, and this is across the board, whether they work in.

Rescue workers, you know, paramedics, animal rescuers. Compassion fatigue is a real thing where if you don't watch your work life balance, you can just kind of become overwhelmed to where you're finding hard, finding it hard to connect with the work.

I, I feel like I'm pretty lucky in the way that I sort of handle is hard for me right after a case when I'm still trying to imagine the people that are now back in that house. And that bothers my mind, but each case is also its own reward. So every time, you know, every job we do, there's a happy ending. We get to see that transformation, we get to see the after photos of them with their new families and, and the benefits continue. So we're not only benefiting that animal and feeling rewarded, but we've benefited the community because cruelty in any community degrades that community. If you've ever had a problem like where it's visible and people have to drive by it, they, nobody likes that. So you've benefited the community. And then when you see this animal with their new family and that family is sending you thank yous and telling you that this is the dog of their dreams and you've completed their circle, their family for them, it's just, it's all very rewarding. And so I'm, more often than not, I'm very appreciative of the job I get to do and, and I'm also well supported by my team. I have an amazing team of colleagues and volunteers and donors who support this work. And all of them are very kind and compassionate people. And so they, they also make a point of supporting me and, and me them.

[B]

This is an issue not just here and not just where you used to live. It's, it's everywhere, isn't it?

[A]

Absolutely, it's everywhere. And it can vary a little. You know, Southern California and, and I'm not, I'm saying this hypothetically, I don't have statistics in my head, but say Southern California might have more problems with dog fighting than puppy mills, where Missouri has more problems with puppy mills. Health probably has more problems with hoarding and neglect than breeding. And so regionally it can vary a little. But unfortunately cruelty exists in every community and we are, I think we are becoming more aware of it. And I think people are, I think there's an awareness, I think there's a generational change happening where maybe in the past people were like, well, it's animals, you know, they're just their animals. And, and so the care of them, maybe it didn't register, you know, maybe they thought of animals as livestock or, or not deserving of, you know, it wasn't our business. And now I think, you know, you saw that change with sort of child abuse and people becoming very involved reporting it. I think we've also seen that change happening in issues related to animal cruelty because it defining moral issue in our time.

You know, I don't think any of us are okay any longer with animals being treated cruelty cruelly and or neglected. And so now I think communities are being more proactive. You're seeing more stories which raise awareness. People become more comfortable speaking out. Law enforcement becomes more accustomed to making it a priority to address it. So while it exists everywhere, hopefully we're creating the change that will help address that and if not, eliminate it, reduce it to the greatest degree possible.

[B]

So where are you trying to go with the work now? I mean, in terms of, I don't know whether it's a matter of expanding your services or maybe partnering with others around the country that are also trying to contend with the issues locally. What do you imagine for your work and the work of others in this line of work as you go forward?

[A]

So that's a great question. And Animal Rescue Corps, even though we, we do big things, but we're a relatively small organization with a relatively small budget, excuse me, we only have six full time staff and you know, luckily we have hundreds of volunteers. But what kind of, what I see as a logical expansion is right now we have our rescue center in just outside Nashville in a town called Gallatin. And that's really great and centrally located. And so lots of times we're rescuing in the south, the deep south, bringing them to Tennessee, rehabilitating them, and then moving them up north for placement.

I, I would like to see that sort of continue, but also have the resources to build another team that could be out either addressing natural disaster issues or going and setting up emergency shelters in some other region of the country where there is an issue. And so in other words, we'd be now we'd be twice as big, operating simultaneously. Our facility in Tennessee isn't large enough to really accommodate that, but we are fully capable of emergency sheltering. And so, you know, if we could expand the team, additional resources, we could kind of begin to operate twice as big. And then that seems to me like it would sort of naturally lead into other regional sort of centers. So eventually perhaps there would be three or four rescue, animal rescue Corps, rescue centers around the country, each with their own sort of investigations and field team to support that region. And then we also, we do work with partners a great deal. We have some great strategic partnerships with our shelter partners who receive the animals that we, that we rescue. So we, once we rescue the animals and they are ready for placement, we place put all of their information, their photos, everything we know about them. And then our amazing shelter partners, who many of them have been with us for 10 years or more and are fully vetted and trusted, they go in and pick the Animals they can best serve and then we take them to them. So those are great relationships. And I'd also like to be able to expand to support them more in, in whatever issues they face in their own communities. And then of course, being able to do addition training for not only all of our animal rescue course people, but also offer field training for our partners and other organizations. So on a smaller scale, they can sort of do what we do and support their own law enforcement.

[B]

Something that sticks with me is that earlier in this conversation we talked about how there may be recognition.

Among neighbors of something, something they see driving by, but they're not really sure. Maybe they didn't have a way of thinking about it before, but now that's emerging in the same way it did for child abuse. And they feel more empowered to do something. But I know also that comes with a risk if they're not doing the right thing. So what would be your advice to people who are listening to you now and wondering how they can be a better nation neighbor, both to their neighbors, but their human neighbors, but also their animal neighbors, and take action where action is needed and to take the right actions? What's your advice to them?

[A]

Yeah, it's a great question. And there's, there's.

There'S no one way to do this. But I would stress persistence is no matter which way you try. Persistence is important and remaining professional is important in, in your re. In the ways that you reach out and try to do something about it. So, and then I would also say that. Let me give you a little overarching information. So.

All across the country, animals are supposed to be protected, to have food, water and shelter. And now where that breaks down is there. They do not adequately define what food, water and shelter mean means. So sometimes a dog will be freezing to death because all it has is a blue chemical barrel or a piece of plywood lean to. And you might have law enforcement say, well, he's got shelter. Well, that's when you have to be really professional and argue that it's not adequate shelter. It doesn't provide him a windbreak. It doesn't get him off the freezing ground. There's no straw for insulation. So I think educating yourself about like in your mind, when you see it, you know it's wrong and you know that animal suffering. But being able to talk about that in a professional way that you can convince law enforcement that they must act is important. And then, and then, even when they are not immediately receptive, remaining professional, because you're going to call them back and you're going to call them back and you're going to keep calling until they get tired of you calling, but you're going to remain professional, professional. And ultimately they're going to respect the fact that you care about this animal. So, you know, so shelter has to be adequate shelter. Food needs to be like fresh food that is not, doesn't have maggots in it or is not soaking in water. And water has to be clean with no algae in a clean bowl. And so, and a lot of times you can't see all of this from the road or riding by, but if you feel like something's wrong, you can call. If you have animal control, start there. If not, if you're in a, in a township, call the police. If you're in a county, in an.

Not in a, in a town, call the sheriff's department and ask who is responsible for animal related issues and then start talking to them about it. You can request a welfare check where they should go and they knock on the door and they ask the people about the animals. And at that point, if there's something wrong, they really should begin to act. They may give the people's time to address it. But again, it's that persistence. And that's kind of. If you see, you know, one or two animals on a chain or in a yard, sometimes you see something much bigger than that. You see, you know, like we've had cases where, you know, a guy had, you know, 50 chickens and rabbits and tiny little cages in his front yard and his neighbors could not stand it. I mean, they knew these animals were suffering. So depending on what it is, like, you know, may be more obvious or it may be a feeling you have. But there's nothing wrong with requesting a welfare check. Anybody who cares about their animals should appreciate that, you know, the authorities are making sure their animals are cared for and so that, that's a great way to start. And then of course, you know, if you know a vet who's rescue minded, who will also speak up, that's, that's great. Vets are the people who are licensed to determine cruelty. In a way, if a vet says something is cruel and unacceptable, it's hard for, for anyone else to really dispute that. So I mean, there's just different ways. But being vigilant, contacting law enforcement, staying persistent and professional.

[B]

You know, just a last question, which is I'm imagining what it must be like for you to go from the life that you had then into this life and then to have experienced it for all this time with this organization, with this work, and. And wondering, you know, what gives you the greatest joy in it or what keeps you going into the future? What. What is that thing that keeps you moving forward to the next project, the next project, the next project?

[A]

Well, you know, we have a. We have a thing where.

We never want to see pictures unless it's something that we think we can go and do something about, because once you see pictures of. Of the way that the, you know, if somebody has been undercover or they worked at a property where there was a problem or for. However they obtained photos of animal suffering, once you view them, it's. It's very hard to not.

Sort of try to pursue that.

So that motivates you. Like, once you see images, you want to go and address it. And then also, I mean, mean, the reward in every. In every single case, there's, you know, several animals that you just connect with and. And seeing them transform and. And. And so that's an immediate reward. It's not like we're working towards something where, you know.

We. We don't have to end all animal cruelty to feel good about changing the lives of these animals today. And so. So that's always inspiring and rewarding. And then for me, you know, I didn't know if, you know, animal rescue course started on a shoestring, and you probably know, most nonprofits, the vast majority, fail within the first year. And. And certainly this was, you know, starting an organization like this. And the rescue work in the beginning was. I was out of my depth in the beginning, and so I wasn't sure if we'd lived through the first rescue, you know, that we. The first rescue was 100 and some dogs from a puppy mill and, you know, ended up costing around 40,000, and we had less than 20,000 in the bank when we started it. And so I was nervous. I was scared. I. I didn't know if we'd make it. And then we did, and people responded, and they came and helped and they gave. And then we did it again and again and again. And. But for years, I mean, really many, many years, it felt like, you know, one wrong turn, one bad case, you know, one, you know, pandemic, anything could sort of. We were so borderline that it could just all go away. And after 10 years of never losing a case, of having countless law enforcement references that are just so happy with what we've done and that foundation and building that reputation, I. I worried a lot that it could go away, that it could still go away if something happened to one or two of the core team could we survive? And only really recently, in the last couple of years, and especially now with the CNN recognition, does it feel like we are, we are sustainable. If, if something happens to me tomorrow, Animal Rescue Corps will continue, continue, and it will continue to grow and it will continue to impact animals ever in a bigger and bigger way. And so to me, that is now my huge joy and, and, and a reason to, you know, try to make it as strong an organization as I can before I hand over the reins to the next person.

[B]

Thank you so much, Tim. Really.

[A]

Yeah, my, my pleasure. Really nice to meet you.

[B]

Well, that's it for this episode of the PM Podcast. You can learn more about Animal rescue [e-mail] to vote for the CNN Hero of the Year, go to www.cnn.com World Heroes. Our thanks to our sponsor, Donor Search, the global leader in AI powered fundraising intelligence solutions for the nonprofit sector. Our producer is Jack Frost and our theme music is Moving Out, Moving in by Jay Taylor and is provided courtesy of Epidemic Sound. If you like what you heard, make sure to subscribe wherever you like to listen. Check out our sister shows, Front Lines of Social Good and How to Raise. And come back next weekend for another conversation with a leader in the world of social good. Until then, this is Jay Frost. Thanks for joining me.