Does Wisdom Come With Age? Starting Over After a Move

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Don't Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody
Episode Title: Does Wisdom Come With Age? Starting Over After a Move
Release Date: June 24, 2026
Theme:
This episode dives into the age-old question: does wisdom necessarily accompany age, or is it something else entirely? Mandy, Kathryn, their son Gideon, and special guest Shirzad (an Afghan refugee and friend of the family) discuss what they've learned through life transitions, the challenges and gifts of starting over, and how community, curiosity, and adaptation shape our sense of self—no matter our age or circumstance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Banter & Pet Antics (01:05–02:47)

• The show kicks off with lighthearted talk about the family’s dog, Becky, reacting to Gideon’s phone alarm, setting a playful, intimate mood.
• Kathryn jokes about living with dog hair again, despite swearing she’d never do it after years of shedding pets:

  “That’s one thing I said I would never live with again. And here I am.” (02:43, Mandy)

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The Best Compliment You’ve Ever Received (02:59–09:20)

Prompt: Kathryn asks everyone to recall the best compliment they've ever received.

Mandy’s Story (03:14–05:13):

• Mandy recalls two career-affirming moments:
  • After a theater performance, he was taken to dinner by writer Ted Allen and actress Jenna Rowlands, who debated whether he should focus on writing or acting:

    “When I feel very low and invisible, I go back to that dinner table.” (04:56, Mandy)

  • Joe Papp promising to produce his play if Mandy wrote it.
  • Both moments stayed with him for decades.

Gideon’s Memorable (If Problematic) Compliment (06:00–07:52):

• After a concert, an elderly man confronted him:

  “I hate tenors and I hate Jews, but you moved me.” (07:46, Gideon)

• Gideon calls it “the wildest compliment I’d ever received… couched in hatred.” (07:52, Gideon)
• Kathryn and Mandy both express shock but appreciation for its impact.

On Receiving Compliments in the Family (08:08–09:20):

• Playful back-and-forth about exchanging and accepting compliments between family members.
• Mandy says he lives off his family’s proud responses:

  “His response to this last thing I could live off of the rest of my life and probably will.” (09:13, Mandy)

• Kathryn, ever dry, observes that simply sticking around is “a pretty good compliment.” (09:20, Kathryn)

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Listener Question #1: Does Wisdom Come With Age? (09:29–18:01, 15:08–17:48)

Question (Read by Gideon):
"Do you think wisdom necessarily comes with age? And at what age have you felt the wisest?”

Panel Responses

• Gideon:
  • Believes wisdom isn’t age-dependent:

    “I have also received great wisdom from many different ages... One of my favorite pieces of wisdom was...” (10:43, Gideon)

  • Recalls being told by a theater colleague:

    “You think too much. That’s what you do.” (12:07, Gideon)

• Mandy:
  • Doesn’t think wisdom is automatic with age:

    “I have met incredibly wise older people and idiots... who are older that seem to have diminished any wisdom... So I think the whole idea of wisdom has to do with not years so much as curiosity and being able to learn new things.” (15:08, Mandy)

  • Emphasizes staying curious and trying to “feed your wisdom” by exposing oneself to new people and ideas:

    “If you don’t make an effort to stay current... you really have to feed the wisdom.” (17:24, Mandy)

• Kathryn:
  • Sees wisdom as linked to experience and hunger for learning, not just years:

    “If you don’t have a hunger for learning and curiosity, that accumulation sort of flatlines.” (17:06, Kathryn)

• Collective Takeaway: Accumulating years doesn’t guarantee wisdom; openness, curiosity, and the pursuit of new experiences keep wisdom growing.

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Memorable and Funny Moments (18:00–19:41)

• Dog Treats Discussion: Kathryn (in classic dry delivery) recounts accidentally eating a liver dog treat, calling it “truly one of the worst.” (17:48, Kathryn)
• Old Dog Nando’s Balance Bar Incident: The family reminisces about their late dog eating (or refusing to eat) a Balance Bar, weaving in trademark affectionate bickering and earthy humor. (19:02–19:36)
• Call for Listeners:

  “Write in with your dead dog’s bowel movement memories!” (19:21, Gideon)

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Special Guest: Shirzad on Starting Over as an Afghan Refugee (19:41–24:19)

Introduction:

• Shirzad shares his experience: former Afghan military, refugee, arrived in the US after fleeing Taliban, now helps new refugees (20:22).

Culture Shock & Adjustment:

• Moving to the US required dramatic adaptation:

  “The biggest adjustment was the culture… you start your life from scratch. It's very overwhelming, exhausting. So many problems come up.” (21:12, Shirzad)

• Fondly describes unexpected kindness:

  “You meet wonderful people... They served me with Afghan food in the United States. I was like, where did they bring this?” (21:59, Shirzad)

On American Attitudes toward Refugees:

• Mandy interrupts with urgency:

  “I think it’s very important to share a gorgeous, educated, brilliant person that has so much to offer... for people to see the reality versus... the negative sale pitch.” (22:21, Mandy)

• Highlights Shirzad’s service to US military at great risk:

  “There are so many problems. We gave more sacrifices during that 20 years of war in Afghanistan.” (23:09, Shirzad)

What’s Missed Most from Afghanistan:

• Shirzad misses the deep communal ties:

  “Neighbors are the closest people to you, even closer than your relatives... my brother was severely injured... before I got to the hospital my neighbors were there with a bunch of money.” (24:19, Shirzad)

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Listener Question #2: Advice for Starting Over After a Big Move (25:41–34:00)

Question (Read by Kathryn):
"I'm having a hard time adjusting to a new life in a busier city, far from my friends and family... How do you remember who you are when everything around you is new?” — Camilla

Shirzad’s Advice (26:41–28:37)

• Shares his own harrowing experience of leaving everything with only hours’ notice:

  “I changed continents overnight... We saw hunger, loneliness... My advice... is to focus on what life is teaching you during this test.” (26:49, Shirzad)

• Found strength imagining family joining him one day in America—a hope fulfilled.

  “That was just a dream. So later on when I looked back, I thought that was the test... and then joined my family with me. Look at the positive side, look at the test.” (27:40–28:37, Shirzad)

Mandy’s Advice (28:37–29:37)

• Encourages recognizing what’s missing, making an effort to connect, and being explicit with others about the need for connection:

  “Let people know that you’re looking for connection… do a radical Afghan thing: know who your neighbor is.” (28:37, Mandy)

Gideon’s Perspective (29:37–30:41)

• Relates starting anew to the actor’s life:

  “Every job for an actor is over before you show up for the first day... you meet new people... they affect your life and your world... and you grow and you change.” (29:37–30:21, Gideon)

Kathryn’s Insight (31:01–32:23)

• Asks Shirzad how he held onto his identity.
• Shirzad’s philosophy:

  “Take the good things from your background and learn the new things where you are right now and merge them… Never forget your roots... but also adapt to the new changes, talk to people, take risks.” (31:01, Shirzad)

Long-Term Perspective (32:47–33:35)

• Shirzad encourages Camilla to be patient; only in retrospect will the meaning of big changes become clearer:

  “In five years… when you look back then you’ll understand... maybe it was for my goodness... Right now you wouldn’t see it... but a year, two years, five years down the line, you’ll understand.” (32:47, Shirzad)

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Closing Reflections & Parting Wisdom (33:49–34:40)

• Shirzad on resilience and acceptance:

  “Ups and downs, they’re part of life. The way the heartbeats are... Sometimes you don’t have to struggle or fight against it. Sometimes you have to accept it and live with it.” (33:49, Shirzad)

• Shirzad’s final request:

  “Can you two please hug each other for me? Please hug each other, please, for me.” (34:22, Shirzad)

• The family indulges—across the table, with hugs and laughter.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with timestamps)

• “When I feel very low and invisible, I go back to that dinner table.”
  —Mandy Patinkin (04:56)
• “I hate tenors and I hate Jews, but you moved me.”
  —Gideon recounting the compliment he received (07:46)
• “I have met incredibly wise older people and idiots... that seem to have diminished any wisdom.”
  —Mandy Patinkin (15:08)
• “Feed your wisdom so that you get rid of dross that’s old and ancient and put in new information, new experiences, new people.”
  —Mandy Patinkin (17:24)
• “You meet very wonderful people. They help you out of nowhere. You don’t know them. They don’t know you. They bring household supplies, they give you food... they served me with Afghan food.”
  —Shirzad (21:59)
• “Neighbors are the closest people to you, even, even closer than your relatives... Everyone is connected.”
  —Shirzad (24:19)
• “Take the good things from your background and learn the new things where you are right now and merge them… Never forget where you came from... but also adapt.”
  — Shirzad (31:01)
• “This is not going to kill you, Camilla. This is making you stronger.”
  —Gideon (30:21)
• “Ups and downs. They're part of life. The way the heartbeats are... Sometimes you don’t have to struggle or fight against it. Sometimes you have to accept it and live with it.”
  — Shirzad (33:49)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dog Banter & Compliment Question: 01:05–09:20
• Listener Q1 — Wisdom & Age Discussion: 09:29–18:01; 15:08–17:48
• Old Dogs, Dog Treats, and Family Humor: 18:00–19:41
• Guest Interview: Shirzad’s Story: 19:41–24:19
• Listener Q2 — Starting Over Advice: 25:41–34:00
• Parting Words & Family Hug: 33:49–34:40

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Takeaways

• Wisdom is cultivated, not simply acquired through years.
  It requires curiosity, openness, and willingness to try and learn new things.
• Community is essential for resilience in change.
  Whether in Afghanistan or America, connection to others gives life meaning and support.
• Identity is something you carry, not something static.
  Embrace change by merging past and present.
• Give yourself perspective.
  The meaning of major transitions often becomes clear only in hindsight.
• Reach out—even when it’s hard.
  Letting people know you’re seeking connection is brave and necessary.
• Find humor in the hard moments.
  There is always room for laughter, even amid struggle.

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Listen for:

• Hilarious family dynamics and loving bickering throughout.
• The moving and wise presence of Shirzad, offering frontline perspective on resilience, gratitude, and adaptation.
• Practical, heartfelt advice for anyone navigating change, loss, or new beginnings.

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(Skip the ads, but don’t miss the dog stories or the closing group hug.)

Transcript

[Mandy Patinkin]

Foreign

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

otter. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Even though we told you not to listen. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions, you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God. When she hears this sound. She never makes that sound any other way. She points her whole face up to the sky. She is doing a thing she doesn't do any other time. It's unreal. Do you get the sense she likes that, dad?

[Shirzad]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. I never see her look up at the sky like that. So Becky's just.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay, we got enough.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Let me give her a treat.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Good girl. Here.

[Kathryn Grody]

Wow. Becky loves that ringtone.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think she knows that that means dad's waking up and gonna take her out, but it seems more. More basic.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, is that your wake up call?

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's his wake up call.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's my wake up call.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, well, you didn't say that. The plot.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, it's my alarm for anything. If I have cooking something and the timer goes off. It's called Apex in the choices.

[Kathryn Grody]

But that makes sense that she has a relationship to.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It could be that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes. Something you're about to be that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But I think if it would hurt her, she'd move away from it.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, yeah, yeah. She seems to be so.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't think that's the issue.

[Kathryn Grody]

And mom, you were rolling your dog hair de. Dog hairing your body.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, with this really good one you found.

[Kathryn Grody]

But I know I've given you a collection of dog hair.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I know that's one thing I said I would never live with again. And here I am.

[Kathryn Grody]

Here you are. Welcome to. Don't listen to us. This thing that we do sometimes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This thing we do sometimes.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm curious to start the day off, I was wondering if you guys can remember the best compliment you've ever received.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't know if I combed my hair first of all, so I can maybe receive some compliments.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Let me see. That will take some thought. Yes, I know. My very favorite compliment. I know mine it's so pathetic because I think about it so many times that it's at least 25 years old.

[Kathryn Grody]

What is it?

[Mandy Patinkin]

When I did A Mom's Life at the Tiffany Theater that Paula Holt ran and produced after one evening, a phenomenal writer named Ted Allen, who wrote Lies My Father Told Me about Czech's Vodka, and Jenna Rowlands, who were friends. The two of them took me.

[Kathryn Grody]

Who is Jenna Rowlands?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, my God. That is.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, I can't be the only one out there.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, that's.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, you're not. But you should lead the rest of them toward.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Jenna Rowlands is one of the greatest actresses ever. She was married to John Cassavetes, Woman under the Influence.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You know who John Cassavetes is?

[Mandy Patinkin]

John Cassavetes was a great, great frigging director who did this naturalistic, very improvisational, these improvisational movies.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Peter Falk was in most of his movies along with Jenna Rowlands, his wife.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, do you guys know Slam Dance Butterfingers?

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, I don't.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I do.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay, well, he's one of the greatest hauteurs of generations in Q tips.

[Mandy Patinkin]

This is the problem. We all are in our generational silos. And anyway, Jenna Rollin, Woman under the Influence. Gloria. She's just a genius. Extraordinary actress. The two of them took me out to dinner and argued for the next two hours about whether I should focus on writing or acting. And when I feel very low and invisible, I go back to that dinner table.

[Kathryn Grody]

Wow. And who was pro writing and who was pro wrestling?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Ted, of course. The writer was pro my writing and Jenna was pro my acting. And that was just one of my greatest compliments ever. Along with Joe Papp. When I told him my idea for Mom's Life, he said, if you write it, I'll produce it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Boom, boom, boom.

[Kathryn Grody]

And who was Joe Papp?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, Joe Papp was the most important theatrical person in the 20th fucking century. He created the Public Theater of Mailman.

[Kathryn Grody]

I know who Joe Papp is.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You don't need to be mail. You have too much energy for early in the morning.

[Kathryn Grody]

There's some people out there. You know, this might be news to you guys. There's some people out there who. Who don't have any experience with the theater or movies.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That can't be true.

[Kathryn Grody]

Couldn't really care.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't know anything about farm animals or farming. So if there's a farmer listening, I apologize. Please share your work with me, and I will share with you my heroes. Joe and Gail were heroes. They started the Public Theater. They reinvented what Theater could be both in New York and around the world.

[Kathryn Grody]

Great. Okay, dad, what was your.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, it's a complicated. It was the most memorable compliment I'd ever received. It's very mixed compliment. I was doing a concert, I believe, in Cleveland, I think, outdoors in a zoo kind of area. And there was water by. People were out there. And some of the rich people who were the donors of whatever the theater was sponsoring were at tables up front. And so afterwards, there was a security person. I don't have security people in my concerts. I'm not Bruce Springsteen. You know, it doesn't happen like that, and I don't need that. And so they. I said, what's this guy for? He said, there's somebody here. Pardon me? He said, there's somebody here who. We just thought we needed some security. Okay, fine. And so finally, I say hi to people who want to say hello after the concert. Then they say, this guy over here. And I see an elderly man, white hair, white beard. And he comes up to me, and I can smell the alcohol on his breath. And I vaguely remembered seeing him at one of the tables and in the front. So he's obviously a rich donor. And he. And he gets right in my face and he says these words which I never forgot. I hate tenors and I hate Jews, but you moved me. And I silently looked at him. Wow. And I thought just what you said. Wow. And I went. I nodded my head, said nothing. I got in the car and I said to Paul Ford and Stacy Levine, my piano player and stage and. And producer, I said that was the wildest compliment I'd ever received. I'd never heard a compliment couched in hatred.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, but that's one that's really amazing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's the one I remember.

[Kathryn Grody]

I hate tenors and I hate juice. I. I'm assuming you're also a tenor.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I used to be.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. That's a really memorable one.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's a memorable one. I'm glad I moved him.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's the upside.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You don't. You don't accept compliments, at least from your parents very well. Or your mother.

[Kathryn Grody]

What do you mean, I have no choice to accept?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, you. You just. Whenever I try to say something appreciative, you just go. You don't trust anything I say that's appreciative of you.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, it's great. It's great. I'm trying to remember a single compliment. I think. I think I can't remember anything nice that anyone's ever said.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's going to make me insane. Now I'm gonna make a list of compliments and give it to you in an envelope.

[Kathryn Grody]

Are you worried that your son has a big compliment?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I've never gotten a compliment from you.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, yeah? What's the best compliment you've given each other? I really like you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The best compliment from dad is that he came to see my show four times and didn't give me any notes and kept crying. That was amazing. Amazing. His response to this last thing I could live off of the rest of my life and probably will.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Best compliment that I ever got from mom is. That is a cumulative compliment through all the years that she stayed with me.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yep, that's pretty good compliment. We're gonna go to our first listener question today. It's an email from Joseph and dad. Can you read this one for us?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do I need these on? No. You know what? I'm starting to get a little paranoid. Mom gets the two or three page emails to read. I get the little one.

[Kathryn Grody]

You have literally said don't.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't.

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't like reading really long ones. If you give those to Katherine.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, did I?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I stand by that. Thank you for reminding me. I'm. I'm grateful that you're both remembering something. Hi, Mandy and Catherine. Do you think wisdom necessarily comes with age? And at what age have you felt the wisest? Thank you, Joseph.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wow.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't think you have to be. Oh, you want to go first? I don't think you have to be old. I learned from my children when they were little. I learned from my grandchildren. I. I think the age I am right at this exact moment is my wisest because it's the cumulative effect of all the moments I've spent on this planet. And

[Kathryn Grody]

so then, according to that age would come with wisdom and experience.

[Mandy Patinkin]

If you're the wisest right now, partially,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

but that's for me. I have also received great wisdom from many of many different ages. One of my favorite pieces of wisdom was I was doing the Shadow box by Michael Christopher at the Morozco theater before it was torn down so they could build whatever hotel that was right there. And it was one of the great theaters. I think Jaime Gates was the property man there. And I think Jaime Gates, I would think it was 17 Pulitzer Prize winning shows were in that theater, including Voice of a turtle and Death of a Salesman. Voice of a Turtle and opened that theater.

[Kathryn Grody]

I've never heard of that show.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, what was it? What else hadn't you heard of earlier?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Jenna Rowlands.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'd love to see a show with a turtle.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're in the doghouse. So we were downstairs playing klobiash, which is an old card game, and I was waiting for my cue, and Jaime was a property man. And then Frank was sitting at the table, who worked for his uncle or something, who was the main, main guy at the theater, main carpenter, union guy. And at one point I said something, and Frank, who talked like this. What? What did you say? What? And I said something. And he said, you know. You know what? You know what your problem is? I said, what, Frank? He said, you think too much. That's what you do. You think too much. And I thought he was right. I thought he was right.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think, you know, it's the classic cliche that, you know, you know, wisdom comes with age. And that's one of the benefits for all the things that are diminishing, you know, I don't think it's true. I don't think it's necessarily true.

[Kathryn Grody]

After the break the habit that makes you wiser. And how to rebuild your life after a major move.

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[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

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[Mandy Patinkin]

I have met incredibly wise older people and idiots do you know that are older that seem to have diminished any wisdom if they had any in the first place. So I think the whole idea of wisdom has to do with not years so much as curious curiosity and being able to learn new things. Like I'll learn new things about areas that I know nothing about and people will learn new things about theater. You will learn new things about what's Nina.

[Kathryn Grody]

You feel you're trying to learn something about now.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I am trying to be open to new artists that you really get stuck in a time warp if you don't make an effort to stay current. You know, I am a cultural idiot about the most contemporary popular actors or people. I read the paper. I have no idea who these up and coming young actors are because I'm fixed from the 30s.

[Kathryn Grody]

You put some K pop in your show.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I did put some K pop in my show and pretended to like it.

[Kathryn Grody]

Do you remember how that song goes?

[Mandy Patinkin]

It went ooh, mmm, ah, ah. Red hot, red hot. Kissy face, kissy face Mm mm, mm. Kissy face, kissy face.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mm. What is K pop?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Korean pop culture music. It's a phenomena all over the world and I just can't get over kissy

[Kathryn Grody]

face, kissy face, oo oo oo.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's what it was. It was like kissy face, kissy. I can't remember.

[Kathryn Grody]

Those are good lyrics. It's very evocative of faces and kissing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What is your. What's yours?

[Kathryn Grody]

What do I think? Does wisdom come with age? Yeah, yeah, I think. Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I think I just said what's yours? Cause I couldn't remember.

[Kathryn Grody]

Couldn't remember what we were talking about. Whoa. That's actually a really good tool when you don't know what we're talking about. Where we came from where we're going. What's yours?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What's yours? What is the question? You took the paper away from me. I did. What is yours?

[Kathryn Grody]

No, I think you're right that you can be getting older and accumulating experience. And if you don't have a hunger for learning and curiosity, that accumulation sort of flatlines. Yeah, in a way. So I think.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And then you repeat it. You repeat the familiar things you knew for 30 years. You be same stories. You know, you really have to feed. Feed the wisdom. You know, Feed your wisdom so that you get rid of dross that's old and ancient and put in new information, new experiences, new people, new culture and be open to it. I really struggle. I agree with some of that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay, a liver treat. No, I ate one of those in a previous episode. It was. It was truly one of the worst.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Did it taste like liver?

[Kathryn Grody]

It tasted exactly like what those dog treats look like.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, cardboard.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Maybe we should heat them, mix them.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Dogs have taste buds. I know. They have enormous olfactory.

[Kathryn Grody]

They'll eat something they don't like.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But then again, Nando wouldn't eat.

[Kathryn Grody]

They are carbohydrates. Yeah, I think that's the word. Individuals that eat.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, that was.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Nando, you remember? What was the name of that health bar I ate?

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, Balance. No, a Balance Bar.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

A Balance Bar, right.

[Kathryn Grody]

We found our old dog Nando, who would eat everything anywhere. One day he took a shit and in his shit was an unchewed bounce. It was in the package.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, no, no, he wouldn't.

[Kathryn Grody]

You are really.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're traumatizing. Something happened.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, he wouldn't.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I would buy a box of these at the health food store because I'd go on the road and I'd take a bunch and he tore the bag open. He tore the box open. He tore the balance bar open and left it.

[Kathryn Grody]

I can appreciate you have that memory and that experience. I would walk those dogs and one day I picked up his shit and there was a Balance bar.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, this is the first time hearing of that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, that's what this show is for. Reminisce about our old dead dogs bowel

[Mandy Patinkin]

movements and different people's memories of pretty much everything.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Please write in with your dead dogs bowel movement memories. Write to don'tlisten to us.com Kathryn Mandy,

[Kathryn Grody]

USA that's not a place.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Access and forward front slash, roundy round.

[Kathryn Grody]

Let us know what happens.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, my God.

[Kathryn Grody]

We have a guest. We have a very special family friend joining us. Mom and dad, you've got your headphones on. It is Sheeers on

[Mandy Patinkin]

Cheers on.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What a wonderful thing to see.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Good morning, my friend. Good morning.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you so much for joining us today, Bud.

[Shirzad]

Thank you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. I always like surprises. I didn't know it was a surprise, too.

[Kathryn Grody]

Shirzad, before we dive in, tell our listeners who you are, where you are.

[Shirzad]

My name is Shirzad. I'm an Afghan refugee living in the United States. I was in the Afghan military when the Taliban took over. And then I needed to leave everything behind and come to the United States and start from zero. From the very first day I arrived in the United States, I wanted to give back and help other refugees, and I'm still doing it.

[Kathryn Grody]

You came to America as a refugee with your fiance at the time. Your family is now here as well. I'm curious, what was one of the biggest adjustments for you about life in America or some that come to mind?

[Shirzad]

The biggest adjustment was the culture. I'm sure every refugee, they get the culture shock in the US the way things work, the way you start your life from scratch, from zero. It's very overwhelming, exhausting. So many problems come up. But on the other side, there are great people. You meet very wonderful people. They help you out of nowhere. You don't know them. They don't know you. They bring household supplies. They give you food. They give you culturally appropriate food. Like when I arrived the first time when I was out of the military base, they served me with an Afghan food in United States. Like, I was like, where did they bring this?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, thank you. One of the things that I think is thrilling about talking to you here is, you know, I've asked Shirzad sometimes, Whoa, I'm sorry you've come at such a challenging time. And what Shirzad has always said, excuse me, with what we live through, any problem here is dealable. I just think it's so important. You hear refugee, you hear immigration, you hear all this garbage talk and demonization. And I think it's very important to share a gorgeous, educated, brilliant person that has so much to offer my family and this country, you know, for people to see the reality versus, you know, the negative, you know, sales pitch. And I love that, you know, but

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

you gave to this country when the conflict was in Afghanistan. You worked with US Military commanders that became friends of yours. And you helped these people, you helped their country. Isn't that right?

[Shirzad]

Yes. Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So I look at the risk of your own. At the risk of your own life over there.

[Shirzad]

Right, right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And Your family's life.

[Shirzad]

Right, Right. I look at it like this, the way as a refugee, I'm here. The American people, they help me, they teach me, they guide me. They do a lot of stuff. We personally, I believe we did more than this in Afghanistan because that security threat to your family, to your life, to yourself, you can't have your personal life outside because if anyone knows you work with the US Military, they kill you, your family. There are so many problems. We gave more sacrifices during that 20 years of war in Afghanistan.

[Kathryn Grody]

One thing I've loved talking to you, Shirzad, about is what you miss from Afghanistan and what you love and what is hard being here that we don't have that Afghanistan has that you're kind of homesick for. Because in America, we don't get to hear a lot about that if we don't have Afghanistan and friends.

[Shirzad]

Yeah, I've always said it, and I'll say it clearly. I miss the community, the social life, the interaction people had. In Afghanistan, you have more time to share just a cup of tea after work with your neighbors. We used to sit outside and share a meal. The neighbors are the closest people to you, even, even closer than your relatives. Like, you know, the whole village. The whole village knows you. Everyone is connected. They were aware about your problems. Like my brother, he was severely injured in a terrorist attack. Before I get to the hospital, my neighbors were there with bunch of money. They were offering us money. Just take this money and do the operation and everything, whatever is needed. I'm staying here. I'm not going home. My family has food and everything. I'm staying here until the people were sitting on the hospital ground and they were praying for my brother. Just the neighbors, like, that's the thing I'm missing. That's the biggest thing I can say.

[Kathryn Grody]

Shirza, that brings us. I want to do this. Sometimes we get our guests to help us answer a listener's question out there.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Sure.

[Kathryn Grody]

So we're gonna go to a listener question now, and we want your help with this one. It's an email from Camilla and Mom. Can you read this for us, please?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Hi, Mandy. Hi, Katherine. My name is Camilla. I listen to your podcast, and it makes me laugh a lot. Thank you. I started a new career, and I had to move across the country to get a job. I left my family and my friends behind. I spent a lot of my free time online talking to them. I'm having a hard time adjusting to this new life in a new and busier city with none of my people around me. In a new job and in a new career. I'm still getting used to. I'm physically here, but my heart and my mind are back with my friends and family, with my old life. What's your advice for someone who is starting over? And how do you remember who you are when everything around you is new to you? Thank you. Camilla, what do you think?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Shoes on.

[Kathryn Grody]

Camilla's circumstances are very different from yours. But starting over is something you know a lot about. What would be your advice to Camilla?

[Shirzad]

Yeah, I would say I can feel you more than anyone. You moved within the country? I moved. I changed continents overnight. I got the call at 8pm That I have to be at the airport before the sunrise. So we left the country. We saw hunger, we saw loneliness. We didn't have connection, stable connection. We didn't know about how our parents are doing. The people, they went and looked for me in our house. They were looking for me, of course, to kill me. If they found me, they would kill me. I wasn't sure if they captured one of my family members. And then they do that. They usually do. They take your brother, they kill them. They do very crazy stuff. My advice to Kamala, right? To Kamala.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. Kamila.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Shirzad]

Yeah, to Kamila. Is to focus on what life is teaching you. During this test, even days when I was going to, you know, get groceries on the way, I was imagining, will one day one of my brothers or my sister or my parents be able to come to the United States and walk with me this same route and get groceries with me. That would be the best days of my life. I won't have any other dreams in my life if that day comes, if that day happens, that was just a dream. So later on when I looked back, I thought that was the test. When I left Afghanistan alone and this was the reward God was preparing me and then joined my family with me. So we always have to look at the positive side, look at the test, what God is preparing us to.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I would say, Camilla, to really, you know, listen to Shirzad's advice and think of the challenge that he and his family went through and are still going through in finding community. I would say recognize what is missing and really make an effort. It's a very vulnerable thing to do, to reach out to your new. The new people you're working with, to see whatever you can do, whether you're interested in sports or knitting or. Or a women's group or a local school. Put yourself in places where you're not so isolated and let people know that you're looking for connection. And people might not know that. People might assume you're just fine and not have any idea that you're lonely. And it's a hard thing to do. But let your colleagues, let your neighbors do a radical Afghan thing. Know who your neighbor is.

[Shirzad]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And may I welcome you to the actor's life? I've always said to my corporate friends who worry when they lose their job that they thought they were going to have their whole life. I said, welcome to the actor's life. Every job for an actor is over before you show up for the first day. You know it's going to be over. Whether it's a day job, an hour job, weeks, months, or even years, it's not going to last your whole life. And the beauty of it is you go to new places, you meet new people, you hear new ideas and thoughts written by gifted people who write down the wishes for themselves and the world at large. And you get to drink those in, and they affect your life and your world and the friends you meet

[Mandy Patinkin]

and

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

you grow and you change. And it's very exciting. This is not going to kill you, Camilla. This is making you stronger. Look at Shirzad. He is one of the preparing you

[Shirzad]

for a bigger test.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Preparing you for a bigger test. And Shirzad is one of the great, great teachers of my life.

[Kathryn Grody]

Me, too. There's a part in Camilla's note where she said, you know, how do you remember who you are when everything around you is new to you? And I'm curious, Shirzad, what helped you keep your identity and remind you of who you are without the familiar people and things from home?

[Shirzad]

I believe in the idea of emerging. Take the good things from your background and learn the new things where you are right now and merge them and then combine them. You will have a better life. So, of course, we can't. And we should never forget where we came from, what are our roots and the character we carry with ourselves, but also adapt to the new changes, learn, you know, communicate with people. I personally think that talking to other people, making new friends, you know, exploring new places, even taking new risks.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But I would say to Camilla, camilla, there's a reason you wanted to go to a new place with a new career. That's brave in itself. So you have to remember what your desire for the new was. And, you know, your job doesn't make you who you are. The city doesn't make you who you are. You brought your whole self to a new location, so you have to bring all of who you have been and share it with the new place and remember that you wanted.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Catherine does make me who I am. So does Gideon. So there are exceptions. There are exceptions to her rules.

[Kathryn Grody]

One other little gray. I mean, Camilla, in her notes, said, I started a new career and had to move across the country to get a job.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

So it might not have been that she wanted a new career or wanted a new job.

[Mandy Patinkin]

She might have won a new career and hoped to get it at home and couldn't find it.

[Kathryn Grody]

She might have loved her own career and been forced by circumstance to have a new thing.

[Shirzad]

Sorry. My one thing I'd say to Camilla is don't look at it right now. In five years, if you look back and compare. If you stayed in the first place, maybe your life took you to another direction or another destination. But maybe it was the gravity, it was the outside force which took you there. And now your life took you to another path. Maybe it's for a good. Right now you wouldn't see it. Believe me, you can't see it right now, but. But a year, two year, five years down the line, when you look back then, you'll understand. Yes. That was for my goodness when I moved or all those things changes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, it's the perspective.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm gonna hold on to that too.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Guys, it's time to sign off and say goodbye. But any last words or thoughts, Shirza, that you're dying to get out? Before we say goodbye for today, I

[Shirzad]

would just say keep going. Ups and downs. They're part of life. The way the heartbeats are. That's what we are created for. That's how the seasons are. The way the seasons change. God created us also to keep changing. We have to cope up. Just accept. Sometimes you don't have to struggle or fight against it. Sometimes you have to accept it and live with it. That's all I can say at the end. Can I have one last request? One last request?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes, please.

[Shirzad]

Can you two please hug each other for me? Please hug each other, please, for me.

[Kathryn Grody]

There we go. I'm on the other side of the table, but I'm giving them an air hug.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He's hands.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you, brother.

[Shirzad]

Thank you so much.

[Kathryn Grody]

Lots of love to the whole family. Thanks everyone for tuning in. We want to hear from you, we want to hear from more immigrants, all kinds of people out there. We want to hear your questions, stories, advice for us, your neighbors, poems. You got a recipe, you got a joke? We haven't heard enough jokes here. Got any knock, knocks, Anything you want advice about fixing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I love those questions. I'll help you figure it out.

[Kathryn Grody]

Please send an email to ask mandy and catherinemail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. And don't forget to subscribe or follow us on YouTube, on Apple and other places you watch or listen to your podcast. And if you're enjoying it, please leave us a review. And if you're not enjoying it, just stop listening to us. You don't have to leave us any review. Thanks so much for being here and tuning in. And please remember, do not listen. Listen to to us us and have fun. Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Catherine Grote, Gideon Grody Paninkin, Mandy Bedinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound, Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. You can watch on CNN.com watch or the CNN app watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on our video. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear Don't Listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog shenanigans, and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple podcasts. Head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.