Have You Ever Encountered a Ghost?

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Have You Ever Encountered a Ghost?”

Don't Listen To Us with Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody
Lemonada Media — June 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid and delightfully chaotic episode, Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, and their son Gideon respond to listener questions about paranormal experiences, small moments that shaped their lives, and inclusion in live theater, especially for neurodiverse audiences. With their trademark humor, warmth, and intergenerational banter, the trio navigates themes of mortality, memory, embracing difference, and personal growth—peppered with stories, laughter, and the occasional deep sigh over chocolate-collagen coffee.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ghosts, the Paranormal & Openness to Mystery

[04:27–10:08]

• Listener Question: Stacy asks if the hosts have ever experienced ghosts or paranormal events.
• Kathryn’s Perspective:
  • Shares curiosity about cosmic phenomena and references a scientific article that “upends everything we think about reality,” noting specifically the fascinating regenerative memory of flathead worms.
  • “We’re very rudimentary in terms of our openness to other sensations and other possibilities.” (Kathryn, 05:40)
  • Mentions NYC’s Belasco Theater as a famously haunted theater, and her wish to be open to such phenomena.
• Mandy’s Family Story:
  • Describes the intense, transcendent feeling at his father’s death, shared with his Aunt Ida:

    “The room became electrified. It was the most alive space I have ever experienced in my life.” (Mandy, 08:08)

  • Recalls feeling the presence of his late grandfather, Max, believing he was there to guide his father onward:

    “I felt that he was there to take his son wherever he needed to go... I cherished that moment.” (Mandy, 09:18)

  • Equates the profoundness of that moment to the birth of his own children and marriage to Kathryn.
• General Consensus:
  • A mix of skepticism and openness; Kathryn and Mandy highlight the limits of rational dismissal and the richness of unexplained emotional experiences.

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2. Small Moments That Changed Everything

[13:07–19:56]

• Listener Question: Is there a moment that felt small at the time but shaped your career or life?
• Mandy’s Story:
  • Childhood memory of curiosity leading to unwitting injury—putting his hand into a bag, getting cut, then feeling blamed for the injury:

    “I think it made me feel like no matter what I do in life, I’m gonna get in trouble.” (Mandy, 15:13)

  • Shares how deeply that moment shaped his lifelong anxiety and therapy journey.
  • Kathryn and Gideon suggest a playful reenactment with care and love to reframe the memory.
• Kathryn’s Reflections:
  • First big NYC audition; realization the connection before an audition impacts her performances more than any technical preparation.

    “I need to talk to the people before I audition. I cannot turn to page 27 and do something. I need to make a connection.” (Kathryn, 18:03)

  • Unexpectedly, giving birth profoundly affected her sense of power:

    “I don’t remember pain. I remember power and awe and astonishment.” (Kathryn, 19:12)
    “Nothing men do is as powerful as this. So they have to keep us down because guess what? We can do things they can’t.” (Kathryn, 18:57)

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3. Inclusivity, Neurodiversity & Theater Etiquette

[20:16–35:26]

• Listener Question (Carrie): Navigating theater as an autistic person with expressive, sometimes disruptive reactions—how to be oneself without feeling shamed or excluded?
• Kathryn’s Encouragement:
  • “You fit right into [theater audiences] with open arms. You should know that the performers welcome you.” (Kathryn, 22:14)
  • Recommends “relaxed performances” designed for neurodiverse or sensory-sensitive audiences and highlights People's Light Theater in PA.
• Mandy’s Advocacy & Story:
  • Notes relaxed performances are increasingly common and transformative for audiences and performers alike.
  • Shares an Edinburgh Fringe story where a performer incorporated an audience member with Tourette’s, normalizing it for everyone:

    “After about 15 minutes of that, your brain just was like, oh yeah, that’s just that person’s experience... And it was really amazing.” (Mandy, 32:05)

  • Lauds Jess Thom (Tourette’s Hero), spotlighting the beauty, poetry, and art that can emerge from neurodiversity.
• Gideon’s Perspective:
  • Recognizes the unique gift of unmasked, authentic emotional expression in audiences:

    “The greatest gift you can offer everyone in that theater... is to have a connection to your feelings and not censor yourself.” (Gideon, 25:23)

  • Calls on theaters to embrace difference, not just accommodate it.
• Actionable Advice:
  • Seek out theaters offering “relaxed performances”—and advocate for them where they don’t yet exist.
  • Be proud of expressing emotion; most people in theater appreciate authentic engagement.

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4. The Dating Game: Family Favorites & Knowing Each Other

[35:38–39:20]

A whimsical round of questions reveals eclectic family favorites:

• Places to Return:
  • Mandy: Home or snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef.
  • Kathryn: Guesses barbecue joints.
• Rantworthy Topics:
  • Kathryn: Politics, psychological quirks, and, formerly, her children.
• Favorite Movies:
  • Mandy: It’s a Wonderful Life and Fantastic Voyage.
  • Kathryn: A documentary on conjoined twins, reflecting her fascination with boundaries and individuality.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Kathryn: “We’re very rudimentary in terms of what our openness is to other sensations and other possibilities.” (05:40)
• Mandy (on his father’s passing): “The room became electrified. It was the most alive space I have ever experienced in my life.” (08:08)
• Kathryn (on auditions): “I need to make a connection [before performing].” (18:03)
• Kathryn (on birth): “I don’t remember pain. I remember power and awe and astonishment.” (19:12)
• Carrie (listener): “The arts have saved my life, and learning Sondheim as a kid helped me find my voice to be able to speak.” (21:22)
• Gideon: “The greatest gift you can offer everyone in that theater... is to have a connection to your feelings and not censor yourself.” (25:23)
• Mandy (on relaxed performances): “It’s amazing what an audience can get used to. If you know that that’s part of it, then it just becomes part of the environment.” (23:02)
• Mandy (on Tourette’s Hero): “She has cataloged all her tics, and my favorite one was ‘wasabi donkey.’ The strange poetry and magic that comes from these places.” (34:50)

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Memorable Moments

• Mandy’s vivid description of his father’s death and the feeling of generational presence—deeply moving, understated, and lingering.
• Kathryn’s honesty about needing human connection in artistic work—candidly revealing her self-knowledge and unique process.
• The group’s playful family squabbles about allergies, coffee, and life’s logistics—a hallmark of their relatable warmth.
• Gideon and Mandy’s embrace of neurodiversity in theater—shifting the lens from accommodation to celebration.
• The family “Dating Game”—lighthearted, showcasing their quirks, affections, and the depth of their mutual understanding.

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Important Segments by Timestamp

• [04:27] Listener Asks About Ghosts & Paranormal
• [07:45] Mandy’s Transcendent Experience at His Father’s Death
• [13:15] Small But Pivotal Life Moments
• [20:16] Carrie’s Question on Autism, Theater, and Authenticity
• [23:21] Kathryn & Mandy Explain “Relaxed Performances”
• [31:54] Mandy’s Story: Relaxed Performance at Edinburgh, Learning from Jess Thom
• [35:38] Family Dating Game: Favorites and Bizarre Documentaries

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Tone and Language

• Warmly irreverent, deeply personal, and occasionally meandering. The hosts blend thoughtful seriousness with comic asides and familial interruptions. Throughout, they embrace vulnerability, curiosity, and an unwavering openness to life’s mysteries—both practical and ineffable.

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For Listeners Seeking Takeaways

• Be curious about what lies outside rational explanation.
• Seemingly small moments can shape your whole sense of self.
• Live fully in your own reactions—especially in communal spaces like theater.
• Advocate for inclusion and celebrate diversity in all its forms.
• Don’t shy away from your eccentricities—they’re threads in the tapestry of connection and meaning.

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For more stories, advice, or to share your own weird and wonderful questions, reach out to the show at askmandiancatherinemail.com or on their socials.

Transcript

[Mandy Patinkin]

Foreign.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

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[Mandy Patinkin]

She's just trying to do the rolling. Tech chess.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She said rolling.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. The last checks.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You hear my cue, baby. I go.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I know.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's so.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Good

[Mandy Patinkin]

morning, parents.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Good morning, son. I'm sick this morning. You're sick? Well, I got a flu shot. Not yesterday, but the day before. And I think it's coming to say hello to me. It did yesterday. A little. I have a little bit of a stuffed nose and I don't feel sick. I just feel sick.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom also feels overwhelmed.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't feel overwhelmed.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I said, mom feels overwhelmed.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You said, also feels overwhelmed.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom while we're at Ferrari.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, you said, mom also feels overwhelmed. You put the comma, mom also feels overwhelmed.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm just naming everyone's feelings, but you were comparing her. Okay, so I misspoke. Apologies.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Comparison leads to violence.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We did. You and your morning feeling. Now. Now I'm asking Mom how she's feeling this morning.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How are you feeling, hon?

[Kathryn Grody]

I am. There is no.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I had a flu shot.

[Kathryn Grody]

There's no area of my life that is set and clear and I'm not anxious about.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What are you talking about? There's no area of your life I've got. We're married. Isn't that set and clear? 47 years. You're not sure yet.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm not talking about that topic.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know what we're going to do? We're going to do a breathing exercise, okay?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, I'm not doing that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, Me and Mom are going to do it. Okay. We're going to do breathe in.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And then the second one, we're going to let it out crazy style. Okay. In. Breathe in.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Ryan's doing it, too. Ryan? Our tech song?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Nobody can see. Ryan. Nobody can see.

[Kathryn Grody]

Gideon, yeah, but everybody.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Two most interesting people. The people nobody can see.

[Mandy Patinkin]

How did that feel, Mom?

[Kathryn Grody]

Really helpful. Thank you so much.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Great, dad. You missed out on it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Sorry I did it with you. You weren't watching me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You let it out crazy. I did do it one more time. That's not. No, you gave a little wiggle.

[Kathryn Grody]

I didn't want to overdo with chocolate in it. It cracks me up. But it's pretty tasty.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What?

[Mandy Patinkin]

A little more context. A little more context. You might as well have said, my cousin bought a chicken Henry.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But the banker always goes to for $100,000. If you could fig how she got to that thought you win a trip to the Bahamas.

[Kathryn Grody]

This is how I've always been.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Ma, tell us. What are you talking about? Dad got a chocolate with the collagen.

[Kathryn Grody]

And there's collagen that I've been taking for several years. Right. And now that dad's trainer told him to take it, now he suddenly went, oh, okay, maybe I should do it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But my. My doctors told me not to.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. So I'm taking the collagen he bought before his doctors told him not to. And. And it has chocolate in it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And it makes her feel overwhelmed.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, it doesn't make me feel overwhelmed. Just makes my coffee tasty.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hold on, hold on. Cut this part out.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah,

[Mandy Patinkin]

that's definitely staying in good human moment.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You afraid people might think you blow your nose from time to time?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't care.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm going to read our first listener question. This is from Stacy. Have you ever seen, heard or. Or felt a presence of a ghost? I'd love to hear any stories you might have of encounters with the paranormal. I've heard that theaters are very haunted places. Xo, Stacey, do you guys like ghosts? Are you into it? Have you seen them?

[Kathryn Grody]

I am starting to read a lot of cosmic stuff that somebody sent me a really new interesting article. Frederick Kennedy, my sound wonderful sound guy for my show, sent me an amazing article, I think by Christian Wyman, I think in Harper's. And it upends everything we think about reality completely. It's very complex, but very interesting.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What did you learn from.

[Kathryn Grody]

Is that. Well, what I learned is that the flathead worm, when you cut its head off, it not only regrows a new head, but the new head knows what the old head had learned.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wow.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So its memories are stored in its body somewhere else.

[Kathryn Grody]

And so that is leading me to ghosts. And all these things that we've dismissed. I really believe that we're very rudimentary in terms of what our openness is to other sensations and other possibilities. There is a theater. Do you remember which one, that supposedly has a ghost? It's one of the older New York theaters. Do you remember, was it. Was it the Helen Hayes?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was on the east side of Broadway, of 7th Avenue.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's where I did, I believe, Mama lotion.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, right.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mama lotion on Broadway.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The Belasco.

[Kathryn Grody]

Belasco. Yes, yes. Yes, it is the Belasco.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It might be that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What kind of ghost is that?

[Kathryn Grody]

It's supposed to be an old actor ghost that some people swear they've seen. I would love to be open enough to be able to feel, see phenomena that a lot of rational people of which I have been. Doesn't think, exist and think is Bubba Mayanson.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You know, Buba Mayanson.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Buba. Myosin.

[Kathryn Grody]

Bubamycin. What the fuck is that?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Grandma, Myas. Myosin is like erythromycin medicine, so. Grandma, medicine. That's where it comes from.

[Kathryn Grody]

Really?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes, Bubba. Myosin. Myosin is. Myosin is from medicine.

[Kathryn Grody]

I never heard that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You're wrong. Myosin. Myosin is from erythromycin. You know, all the myosin medicines. Bubba is Grandma. Bubba. Myosin is Grandma medicine.

[Kathryn Grody]

You know what I think I'm gonna do? I think I'm gonna start rereading every book in this house.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Sounds great.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How did you get to that?

[Kathryn Grody]

Because I'm looking at the book.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Do you want me to answer that question about ghost?

[Mandy Patinkin]

You don't think we're gonna get to you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I don't.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Your perception sometimes is that you don't talk at all in this show. You know, if you want to see how true that is, you can go to our YouTube channel and watch one of the shows. You tell me. If you don't get to say anything,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm not gonna watch the show that I'm in.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, what about ghosts? Have you encountered them? Have you seen them?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes, I have. You have?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I have had a really real experience.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, tell me.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

My father was dying.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I sat in front of the bed for over five hours. My Aunt Ida came into the room. I watched him struggle with those final breaths sitting at the foot of his bed. There was a long pause. Aunt Ida's now in the room. That's his sister. The pause was so sufficient that one believed this might be the final breath. I stood up. She stood up. We all moved toward his side. I was on his right side. She was on his left side. It was Silent. And the room became electrified. It was the most alive space I have ever experienced in my life. And then he didn't breathe again. And his arms slowly went down. And Auntie Ida and I shared that together. And we were bonded for the rest of our lives because we both felt the same thing that we didn't speak about till quite many years later.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But then you did speak about it,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

and then we did speak about it. And that thing was that Auntie Ida and my dad's father, Grandpa Max, who died from a hit and run on New Year's Eve in 1952. New Year's Eve, because it was the year I was born, was there.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Wow.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was so powerful. I never met him. He was just a picture on the wall.

[Mandy Patinkin]

You felt his presence there.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I felt that he was there to take his son wherever he needed to go. And I remember it. I cherished that moment. Not his passing, but he was going to pass. And so. But the power of it. Because I believe I want to be awake as much as possible when my moment comes. Because I believe there will be something there to greet me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's amazing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Amazing. It was one of the most extraordinary moments of my life. Only to be equaled by seeing you enter this world and your brother Isaac enter this world, and mom saying, I do when we got married.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But who was it? Cooler. When they entered the world, who had, like, a cooler.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yours was more dramatic.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was Isaac, because he was first.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, well, let's cut that part out.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

After the break. Small moments you don't realize will change everything.

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[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Even though we told you not to listen, here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions. You'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Dad, would you read this one? This is a short but deep listener question and wonder if you can read that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Is there a moment in your career that felt small at the time but shaped everything after?

[Kathryn Grody]

Huh. That is such a profound way of asking that question. I've got to really think about it. So it might take.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes, there was for me. But it's my career of living.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, I think.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah, it's when I put my hand on Wednesday, we went to Indiana, to Phil Schmidt's over the Indiana Skyway. It was called on the south side of Chicago. That's where Grandma Celia liked to go to dinner. She would order bones. I want to push with no bones. That's all. That's what you would order. I was between zero and eight years old. We were in the car. I was sitting in the back on the right side. It was when you had brown paper bags and you'd return the light bulbs to the grocery store and I didn't know what was in the bag. And so as a curious kid, I shoved my hand in the bag and it was on the way home after the restaurant and I felt everything. I felt crunch. I didn't know what it was, but I knew I'd done something wrong. And then my arm was wet. I didn't know what that was. But I just was very quiet. We get to the house, which was about 35 minute ride or something, and everybody gets out of the car. And I waited. Come on. Come on, Mandy, come on. My mom's yelling at me and, okay, I get out of the bag and I'm holding the bag in my hand, so my arm's inside the bag. What are you doing? Put that back in the car. I can't. What are you talking about? She takes the bag, she sees the bag is wet, it's red. She sees that my arm is bleeding, the bag is wet, and I got in trouble for putting my hand in the bag and getting cut and getting cut, I'm bleeding, the bag is wet with blood, and I got in trouble. And I think it made me feel like no matter what I do in life, I'm gonna get in trouble.

[Carrie (Listener)]

Interesting.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

And I think it came from that moment, and I've been working at it forever. Am I in trouble for telling you this story?

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, I think you're right. I think that you do have that in you.

[Kathryn Grody]

You always have to.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Anything you say or anything you did or it makes it very hard sometimes to criticize you or let you know that I had some problem with you, that you are in trouble because it's so cool. Your brain goes, I can't do anything right, or this is a disaster, or you hate me or anything. And it's like, no,

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I've been working on that in therapy for as long as I've ever been in therapy. And I think I didn't have that as the bullseye, you know, for many years. And then one day I went, where else would it be from, Mandy?

[Mandy Patinkin]

So can I suggest that we get a brown paper bag, some light bulbs, you shove your hand in there, you bleed, and we surround you with love and we go, it's okay, it's problem. We all make mistakes and we clean up, clean up the blood. It doesn't even have to be real blood. It can be staged blood. We clean up the blood, we put Band aids on and we give you a.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

With like chocolate chip molasses.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God, that must feel terrible.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Everybody makes mistakes. It's no problem.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is why I want our listeners to know that there is irony in the title of our podcast. Because what Gideon just said, I think is the greatest advice given to mankind.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, given to you, given to Mandy. Kind other people not to listen.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I love that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I love that idea. Should we do it now?

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, no, we don't have time now. Let's do it. And then See what happens.

[Kathryn Grody]

Do I get to answer this?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes, you do, Mom. What was the moment you were thinking about?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, it's interesting. When I first went to New York and I was just going for a visit, I didn't even think I was moving there yet. And I had this audition for a Broadway show. And a director, an English director named Frank Dunlop was there. It was Scapina with Jim Dale. And he just talked to me for 20 minutes. We just talked. And then he asked if there was anything I wanted to share. And I did this Pfeiffer cartoon I used to do. And I got this part and I didn't think of it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Did you do a Pfeiffer cartoon?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, I used to do this Pfeiffer cartoon.

[Mandy Patinkin]

As you did a cartoon live?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, live. It's like I used to be afraid to go out of the house, and I thought somebody would beat me up. And I was so frightened. But I went from my bedroom to the kitchen and nobody beat me up. And I went from the kitchen to the front door and nobody beat me up. And I opened the front door and I went outside. Nobody beat me up. And I was so happy. The first person I saw I beat up. But I did it very physically.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, that's funny.

[Kathryn Grody]

And I did this. I got the part. And it took years to realize that the reason I only did one Broadway show.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

And was totally off Broadway, besides, that was just my area, is because I need to talk to the people before I audition. I cannot turn to page 27 and do something. Need to make a connection. And I only realized that years later, looking back to figure out scientifically why either nailed the part in an audition or like nobody knew how I was ever hired for anything. And the common denominator was the people that talked to me first. I felt I made a connection and then go. So the other thing, this might be a little off topic, but it just came to me. Giving birth shocked me at how powerful it was. And I thought, wow, this is why men can't deal with women. Because nothing they do, not any war, not any battle, anything is as powerful as this. So they have to keep us down because guess what? We can do that they can't.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Can you explain the.

[Kathryn Grody]

The.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The physical feeling of the power or the mental other than just the word power?

[Kathryn Grody]

I just felt my whole being was so in awe of making a human come out of this body. It was just. I don't remember pain. I remember power and awe and astonishment. And I remember thinking that thought.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Actually, I remember every Second of it,

[Kathryn Grody]

you know, and dad was phenomenal. And actually, he was so phenomenal during the births of both my children that whenever we've had shit times, I often go back to how phenomenal he was in the birth times. And it gets me a lot of leeway.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, I love that.

[Kathryn Grody]

Anyway.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I love. Yeah, I love. I don't remember pain. I remember power.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Up next, in theater, is there such a thing as the right way to respond? Our next question is from Carrie. Let's take a listen.

[Carrie (Listener)]

Hi, Katherine and Mandy. My name is Carrie, and I am an avid theater goer. I am on the spectrum. I'm 44 years old. I live in Pennsylvania, but I try to get to New York for placations quite a bit. Theater for the autistic community can be tough because our reactions can be a little bigger than other people's. And I've been shushed for laughing too hard or looked at, like, side eye. Do I have to wear a pin that says I'm autistic? Don't bully me. Like, I. I went to next to Normal performance in Equity production in Bethesda, and I was shushed by a woman, like, very loudly. Yes, I did laugh very loudly, but it was a laugh break. I found myself bursting into tears. And there was thankfully a nice gentleman that was in the row and during intermission said to me, you enjoy the show any way you like. And I was so grateful for that. But I'm sometimes shy about going to see these performances because my expressions of enjoying the live performances are so maybe extra, as the kids would say. I don't know. Any advice for just being yourself? And we're not trying to be disruptive, but we want to be included. The arts have saved my life, and learning Sondheim as a kid helped me find my voice to be able to speak. And, yeah, now I can't stop it. I'm a writer. So thank you for being open to starting a wonderful dialogue and putting out love into the world. God knows we need it.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That is so beautiful, Carrie. Thank you so much. Do you want to answer her first?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, first of all, Carrie, thank you for sharing that. Thank you for being so vulnerable. I think one of the great gifts of live theater is not only are what the actors doing different every night, but the audience is different every night. Sometimes you have big laughers, small laughers. Sometimes people have all sorts of unpredictable human reactions, and you fit right into that with open arms. You should know that the performers welcome you. I also want you to know that you live in Pennsylvania. And I don't know if you're anywhere near Malvern, Pennsylvania, where there's a theater called the People's Light Theater. And they have at every show one or two performances which are called non shushing or relaxed performances. Relaxed performances, which are for anybody on any spectrum, and you should really check them out. They do beautiful shows and you would be able to be very relaxed there because people have all sorts of reactions.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I just want to chime in on that. Relaxed performances aren't just at the People's Light. This is done at theaters all over the country and all over the world. And something that performers and producers and directors need to advocate for as well, which is just to define it a little bit. It's performance where the performers and the audience know that there might be people present who need to move around or be louder or make sounds in some way, and that everybody's okay with that and that they welcome diverse audiences. And I've been in a bunch of relaxed performances, and it's very powerful and incredible, and it's amazing what an audience can get used to. If you know that that's part of it, then it just becomes part of the environment and it's not a big deal. But, yeah, I wonder if Carrie knows that those exist or if she's encountered them a lot or how rare it is to find them.

[Kathryn Grody]

I tell you, when I first heard about it at People's Light, where I was doing my show, I was nervous at first when I heard, well, what does that mean, relaxed performance? Well, somebody might walk around. And I immediately went, are they going to come up on the stage? Or whatever. And it turned out to be very subtle in my experience of it. And also just added to the sort of theatrical possibilities of the event, making that evening different from other evenings. So I think, Carrie, if you just go to the theater looking for those performances, if you want to, but also when you go to one that isn't relaxed, just to know that people like us would welcome whatever your reactions are, you know, and for you to embrace your own individuality and good for you for becoming an artist and being embraced by other art forms.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And for every person who's shushing you, there's a hundred people in that theater who are happy that you're having a great time and laughing whenever you need to laugh.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I would remind myself, Carrie, if I were you, that anytime you felt like laughing or crying or needing to walk away for a minute because you have to catch your breath is the greatest gift you can offer everyone in that theater. Including every performer. We are there for you. And the fact that you have a connection to your feelings and you are so heightened in your reaction to the human condition, however and in whatever way it presents itself is maybe a greater gift than any words or music spoken or sung in any play or musical. And that the only thing I would advise you to remind yourself of is to have some humility at those moments, because you have the greater gift of allowing yourself to experience and feel these things and not censor yourself and remind yourself that others may not be as sensitive as me, and they're not less for that. I just. I don't have to feel self conscious. And I'm. And I remember Mandy said I can share that with people. And so go ahead and share away. And if you're ever at one of my concerts and you start crying, just come up on stage and just start crying or laughing or whatever you want, but I'll be there to hold you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, I like that. I like that angle, that kind of, you know, if Carrie's laughing a bit extra or a bit longer or a bit louder, thinking that everyone else is tamping down their reactions to fit the greater collective. Yeah, we're all having this tune in perception, and we are shaping our emotions to fit what's acceptable rather than what's coming out.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, that's interesting.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Dad, have you had.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I never heard about it until right now.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, so that's a cool, just learning moment for you. No, I think it might be harder for someone like you sometimes who's on tour and you're going place to place to place, and maybe easier when you have a run at a theater. But I think it's not just on people who have some sort of, you know, autism or sensory or learning disability to ask for relaxed performances. It's on the creators, the performers, the directors, the people in power in theater, to also request that they have those experiences in their lineup so that they're welcoming lots of different, you know, people into the audience. So that might be a thing you can ask your producers. Can we do a relaxed performance? Or how can we work towards letting people know?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

How do you let people know what the definition of that means? I wouldn't have known what that meant,

[Mandy Patinkin]

so I've got it right here. A relaxed performance is an inclusive theater event adapted for people with autism, sensory or learning disabilities, or anyone needing a less formal environment. By modifying sensory elements like lighting, sound, loosening traditional etiquette, allowing talking, moving and providing quiet spaces, creating a judgment free zone where audience members can react Naturally, to the show. The artistic integrity of the show remains. But often technical adjustments, sometimes quieter sounds or lower lights are made and the atmosphere is welcoming for diverse needs and focusing on comfort and accessibility.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But there, you know, there are concerts, there are sections that I construct to build up to a kind of quiet and attentiveness. Really, it is complicated. And there's an asterisk to my love and desire.

[Mandy Patinkin]

So let me add this. That's the definition of like a fully relaxed performance that's tailored to that. There's all kinds of things on the spectrum of that. So it doesn't mean that you have to change, always have to change the lighting or redesign the show. Sometimes it's as simple as letting it be known to the audience ahead of time and then having an announcement at the beginning of the show so that the audience is aware. We might have people in our audience tonight who have needs to make a sound or move around with whatever they're experiencing. And we welcome diverse audiences. And we want you to know we're good.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We're good too.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But I think, to answer your question, it's about being in touch with that theater ahead of time and organizing that event to be a relaxed performance for whatever way works for you as the performer, you know, not compromising the artistic integrity of the piece.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

If I can just go back to Carrie's, you know, beautiful statement and question. Just the thing I wish everyone, including myself, would walk away from this with is I encourage all of you, all of us, to feel and react the way you need to and not be self conscious about it. Not mask it or hide it, just be. And we as audience members and performers will embrace it and respect it and be grateful that you had the courage and the trust in us to come and be literally capital B, E with us.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I love that. I want to share a quick story about this with an experience I had. Yes, I went to a show in Edinburgh Fringe and it was a pretty heavy show about child abuse and, and a woman's experience. Our old friend, I think sue, was her. Oh, yes, no. And it was a fairly small theater, about 125 people. And she gave this announcement at the beginning. She just said, you know, today's a relaxed performance. This is what it means. And I want you to know I'm okay with anything that happens. And then sure enough, about three minutes into the show, there was a woman in a wheelchair in the front row who started punching herself in the chest. And every 30 or 60 seconds would shout something out like, fuck your mother.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Like Tourette's or.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, she had Tourette's or biscuits or Merry Christmas or Happy Christmas. And it was a really interesting experience because at first the audience who's not used to this was like, oh my God, what's happening? And then after about 15 minutes of that, your brain just was like, oh, yeah, that's just that person's interesting experience. And we're. That's what we're doing now. That's now part of this human collective's experience of the show in this room. And it was really amazing. And after the show, I said to the performer, I was like, thanks so much for introducing me to relax performances and for saying that it was so clear. It was a little unusual at first and then we all got used to it and I was really glad that person was here and could enjoy this show and be here for this incredible performance. And she said, yeah, she's amazing. Her name is Jess, I believe. She said, I'm on my way.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Jess is the performer.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No, Jess was the person who had Tourette's. She said, I'm on my way to do sign language interpretation for her show across town. And I ran across town and I saw the person who was in the wheelchair, Jess, her one person show, which I think was called Tourette's Hero or something. And she was amazed. She starts her show by saying, so I've got like severe Tourette's. I have several, like violent episodes a day. I might have an episode during this show where I throw myself out of my wheelchair and am having a like, you know, an episode on the ground. I want you to know I'm okay if that happens. We play a little song, you know, that comes on my person who helps me, comes out and deals with that. And that's something I'm used to. And you don't have to be worried about me or anything. And then during her show, she said, you know, go fuck your mother and biscuits and all that stuff several times. But it was such an amazing thing to my assumptions. Yeah, you know, that at first this is gonna be a disaster, but this shows.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What do we do?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, no, it's actually fine. And then also not thinking that this person could show being completely wrong. And she had one of the best shows I've ever seen. And wow. But that was when I was introduced to relaxed performances. And since then, whenever I've seen one, I don't go, oh, God, this is gonna change the night. I go, wow, what a gift it is to be with an audience that's maybe a little different or has different people in there. And that person. Also, she's got a website called Tourette's Hero where she has cataloged all her tics, all the different things she said, and you can search for it alphabetically. And there's over 6,600 tics, random things that have spouted out of her mouth. And my favorite one, just the odd poetry that has come out of her is wasabi donkey. That was one of the 6,000 things she just said. And it's like, wow, the strange poetry and magic that comes from these places. And she was a person who was able to recognize the beauty and the

[Kathryn Grody]

art of supposed disability.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Her name is. I've got it right here. Jess Thome. Thank you so much, Carrie, for sharing that with us. Yeah, really, we should all be advocating for. Yeah. More people to be however they need to be in audiences.

[Kathryn Grody]

And as long as it causes no

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

harm, this is really great food for thought. You've given quite a gift to the performing community.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I want to wrap up today by revisiting a segment we've done before on the show called Dating Game. So, mom, I'm gonna ask a question about dad. Dad, you know the answer, but don't say it. Keep it in your head. Then we'll switch. Okay? Yeah, mom, what's the place dad's visited anywhere in the world that you know he's most excited to get back to?

[Kathryn Grody]

A barbecue place somewhere on the south side of Chicago or something. But that was before he changed his whole diet. But let me say, the place he's most excited to get back to, I think it would be some. Some special barbecue.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Interesting. I know what my answer would be. Well, my guess would be right back home.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Get back to. Yeah, that wasn't what I was thinking.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What were you thinking?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Going snorkeling and seeing fish in their environment.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, wow.

[Kathryn Grody]

Huh.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Which I've only done a couple times when we've been in one of those

[Kathryn Grody]

places, the Great Barrier Reef in Australia.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was pretty thrilling.

[Kathryn Grody]

Wow.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay, maybe we'll jump to the next question from mom. What is the topic of conversation that will get mom talking for 20 minutes without taking a breath? What do you think it is, Dan?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Politics or psychological glitches in people?

[Mandy Patinkin]

What would you say the topic that will get you talking for 20 minutes without taking a breath?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, it would probably be the insanity that's going on. It used to be my children, but they've told me that I should get another topic to talk about.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Stop talking about Mom. What's Dad's favorite movie?

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, it's a Wonderful Life.

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's your favorite movie?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Two of them. It's a Wonderful Life and Fantastic Voyage.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I've never seen that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, it's the one where everybody is shrunk down. The guy has a brain tumor. They shrink him down, they inject him into his body, and then they swim around his body to get the brain tumor. Raquel Welch is in it.

[Kathryn Grody]

I wonder if that's a grandchild. How have you never seen that kid?

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm sure I'm watch it tonight. Dad, what's mom's favorite movie?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, the documentary of those twins that were put together at the head. The most challenging thing to watch. This is what she loves, face to face.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, two conjoined twins the head.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That was an amazing.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

She was selling that like hotcakes.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, you know what it was. These two people that were conjoined at the head had totally separate identities, and I was not conjoined and had trouble with boundaries. How did they have boundaries? It just fascinated the hell out of me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. You know, they led two different lives.

[Kathryn Grody]

They were facing opposite directions.

[Mandy Patinkin]

One wanted to be a country singer.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

One was a teacher.

[Kathryn Grody]

That's. No, she was a deliverer for UPS or something. I think she was a teacher. Anyway, they had, you know, totally different. You know, one of them said, you want kids, you can have them. But when it's time for me to go home, I'm going home. And I would look at it. But you're conjoined.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

They were joined at the head, but they only had one body.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, they had two little bodies.

[Mandy Patinkin]

One had a smaller body and one had a very large body.

[Kathryn Grody]

And she had a kid, had a beautiful.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

One brain.

[Kathryn Grody]

Two brains. No, they had two brains.

[Mandy Patinkin]

But.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

But the head was. The brains were. The head was joined.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. That was a favorite movie. Thank you for reminding me. I have to go look at it again.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I would love to see it again.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Okay. That's far too much information about both of you.

[Kathryn Grody]

I know. Please edit this really well.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm gonna watch Fantastic Voyage.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Oh, I love it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Thanks, everybody, for tuning in.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We want to hear more from you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Have you seen Fantastic Voyage?

[Kathryn Grody]

What's your favorite movie?

[Mandy Patinkin]

What's your favorite movie? How would you do being a conjoined person at that head with your sibling or spouse Stories? Advice. Please send an email to askmandiancatherinemail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. Don't listen to us. Is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Catherine Grody, Gideon Grody Paninkin, Mandy Bedinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

You can watch on CNN.com watch or

[Mandy Patinkin]

the CNN app watch on Spotify. Spotify Premium users get no commercial breaks on my show. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear Don't Listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air, Becky the Dog shenanigans and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts. Guests head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.