How AI is Scaring Hollywood

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Don't Listen To Us – "How AI is Scaring Hollywood"

Date: July 22, 2026
Hosts: Mandy Patinkin, Kathryn Grody, and Gideon Grody Patinkin
Special Guest: Mikael Suleiman (Composer, sound designer, Tony-nominated multidisciplinary artist)

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Overview

This episode takes a deep dive into Hollywood’s growing anxiety over AI’s rapid encroachment on the arts. The Patinkin-Grody family and their guest, Mikael Suleiman, explore listener Peter’s poignant question about what AI means for aspiring actors and creators. Through their signature mix of wit, generational perspective, and heartfelt candor, the group wrestles with fears and hopes for the future of human creativity, authenticity, and livelihood in entertainment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Family Banter and Special Guest Introduction

• The show opens with playful family antics and a bit of singing before introducing their longtime friend Mikael Suleiman.
• Kathryn and Mikael reminisce about how they met, highlighting their mutual love for laughter and thoughtful debate (14:01).
• Mikael jokingly asserts, “Whenever you say something that’s insane, I just like—oh, there goes Kathy Mikael.” (15:30)

2. Listener Question: Young Actor Anxiety about AI

• Mandy reads Peter’s letter—a young LA actor worried about AI “actors” like Tilly Norwood replacing working talent and eroding the value of human performance (17:15).
• The family frames this as a pivotal issue for everyone with creative aspirations—not just actors.

3. Mikael Suleiman on AI: More "Fast Food" Than Fine Dining

Timestamps: 18:34 – 19:44

• Mikael offers a broad analogy comparing AI-generated entertainment to fast food:

  • “AI is going to be the new electricity, the new Internet… Tilly Norwood, the AI ‘actress’, will be out in the wild… but more than likely that’s going to be fast food.” (18:34)
  • Michelin-star creative work (the Spike Lees and Scorseses) will persist, he says, because “sometimes you need something quick, but there’s still people cooking at home…there’s still art.”

• He notes: the Tilly Norwood AI story was partly debunked—a reminder that AI panic often outruns reality. (19:55)

4. The Human Difference: Imperfection, Idiosyncrasy, and Fear

Timestamps: 21:28 – 23:03

• Kathryn admits to feeling existential dread: “This is so horrifying to me… I desperately believe there is a difference [between AI and humans] and I don’t want to be like lemmings…” (22:33)
• Catherine and Mikael explore if “imperfection” and “idiosyncratic behavior” are our last human strongholds.
  • Mikael: “I 1000% believe that’s true.” (23:17)

5. Guardrails, Watermarks, and The Value of Human Work

Timestamps: 25:01 – 27:26

• Kathryn wonders about the need for “a watermark… like a real bill versus a counterfeit bill.” (25:01)
• Mikael predicts: “It will be easier to mark what is human versus what is AI because there’s just going to be so much AI… like ‘organic’ food labels.” (26:10)
• Authenticity, he stresses, will always have a niche: “You know when you’re at a Michelin-star restaurant; you know when you’re at McDonald’s. And it doesn’t discount McDonald’s”—both can exist.

6. Can Audiences Tell the Difference?

Timestamps: 27:36 – 28:14

• Catherine raises the “uncanny valley” effect: “Don’t you think we get turned off by the unhuman? …Or will it soon be indistinguishable?”
• Mikael: “It is already indistinguishable. There are things…” (27:47)
• Mandy shares a personal story: praised a young musician, only to find out the stunning vocals were AI. (27:51–28:14)

7. Equity, Accessibility, and The Democratization of Creation

Timestamps: 28:14 – 29:39; 36:23 – 37:53

• Mikael argues for AI’s upside: newfound access and options for marginalized or disabled creators—AI can level the playing field.
  • “That kid… can now make that piece of music and spread it out to the world… it’s not right or wrong, AI. It’s about how we’re using it as humans. And I’m a humanist, I’m an optimist…” (28:35)
• On “jumping the line” in creative fields: AI can let young talent bypass underpaid, exploitative entry roles: “Now anybody can make a feature film with their iPhone and some friends—will it look like Christopher Nolan? Maybe not, but it’ll look like something people want to see.” (37:53)

8. Will AI Kill the Entry-Level 'Journey' for New Artists?

Timestamps: 35:00 – 38:31

• The family raises a crucial concern: does AI erase the formative ‘journeyman’ process for young artists?
• Mikael counters: AI shortens the traditional “paying your dues,” but that’s not all bad since those early jobs were often exploitative.

9. Theater as the Last Bastion?

Timestamps: 34:41 – 34:49

• Mandy and Mikael agree: “The live theater venue, you can’t fuck with that.” (34:45)
• Mikael warns that even theater may eventually be touched by AI, though, hinting at more complexity to come.

10. Legal Rights, Ownership, and The "Double" Problem

Timestamps: 33:03 – 34:41; 39:03 – 41:38

• Kathryn shares unease about voice and face ownership: “I find this horrifying that I have no protection over the use of my voice… I want some agency over my humanity.” (32:19, 33:03)
• Mikael outlines current limitations and the growing legal/institutional gray area as artists become ‘raw material’ for AI. “If they’re using it for commercial purposes, they cannot.… But there are tools where they will remix your voice…” (33:11)
• Mandy, aging as an actor, wonders: “If I’m partway through a film… is it legal for a computer to create the rest of me in the story?” (39:03)
  • Mikael: “You can record the scene at home, they can put you anywhere… it won’t be a computer, it’ll be you…” (40:22)

11. Finding the Path Forward: Caution, Hope, and Authenticity

Timestamps: 41:49 – 44:10

• Kathryn: “I just always feel better about the future anytime I spend time with you, Mikael. You turn ordinary fear into the possibility of hope.” (42:15)
• Both Kathryn and Mikael agree that optimism must be paired with caution: “We don’t know what’s going to happen… The healthiest thing is to go forward with both caution and hope.” (43:43)
• “Don’t give up being human. Go to the theater.” – Kathryn’s final advice (44:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mikael Suleiman [18:34]:
  "AI is going to be the new electricity, the new Internet... But more than likely, it’s going to be fast food. It’s going to be things people want in a pinch."

• Kathryn Grody [22:33]:
  “This is so horrifying to me because... I desperately believe there is a difference [between AI and humans], and I don’t want to be like lemmings...”

• Mikael Suleiman [23:17]:
  "I 1000% believe that's true. Imperfection, idiosyncracy—AI can't do that."

• Mikael Suleiman [26:10]: “It will be easier to mark what is human versus what is AI... like 'organic' labels at Whole Foods.”

• Mandy Patinkin [34:41]:
  "The live theater venue, you— you can't fuck with that."

• Mandy Patinkin [39:03]:
  “If I’m partway through that film... is it legal for a computer to create the rest of me in that story?”

• Kathryn Grody [42:15]:
  “You always take a sort of ordinary fear and expand it to a possibility of hope, which is really an amazing gift.”

• Mikael Suleiman [43:45]:
  “Caution and hope. Because I’m not, like, delusional that there’s not something to be cautioned about, but I’m very hopeful.”

• Final Sign-off [44:25]: “Don’t give up being human. Go to the theater.” – Kathryn
  “AI does not really have [a heart].” – Kathryn (49:20)

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Key Timestamps

• 12:10 – 15:08: Introduction of Mikael Suleiman and family bonds
• 17:15 – 19:44: Listener Peter’s letter and Mikael’s fast food analogy
• 21:28 – 23:17: Kathryn's anxiety; Mikael on idiosyncrasy
• 25:01 – 27:26: Guardrails, watermarks, and authenticity
• 27:36 – 28:14: The “uncanny” and indistinguishability of AI
• 33:03 – 34:49: Legal/ownership questions for artists
• 34:41 – 34:49: Live theater as “unsimulatable”
• 36:03 – 38:31: Journeyman process, learning with/without AI
• 39:03 – 41:38: Practical and ethical cases for digital doubles
• 43:43 – End: Embracing both caution and hope

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Conclusion

The episode offers a rich intergenerational reflection on the meaning of art and humanity at the edge of machine creativity. From grounded fears and legal vagaries, to the “Michelin-star restaurant” of authentic performance, the core message: Don’t give up on being human. Find hope, find craft—AI may change the game, but it can’t replace the real heartbeat of creation.

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Takeaway:
“Don’t give up being human. Go to the theater.” (44:25)

Transcript

[Mandy Patinkin]

Lemonade.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Care Scout. You know, when an aging parent needs help, the mental load on the family is just massive. How do you find home care? Is it time for assisted living? It's so hard to know what to do, and generic online advice doesn't cut it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It really doesn't.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Mandy Patinkin]

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[Catherine Grody]

Should we start with some singing?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, say can you.

[Catherine Grody]

Is that on the list?

[Kathryn Grody]

That's not on the list.

[Catherine Grody]

Oh, probably is. It's not my favorite.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Who charges you for that?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, Uncle Sam.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Catherine Grody]

What do you do you guys hold your hand on your heart?

[Kathryn Grody]

No, I do not.

[Catherine Grody]

I know, but do you know?

[Kathryn Grody]

I do not.

[Catherine Grody]

As a protest.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes to the.

[Mandy Patinkin]

When's the last time you sang the Star Spangled Banner?

[Kathryn Grody]

Really? Probably fifth grade.

[Catherine Grody]

Well, it was that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Get with your country.

[Catherine Grody]

Yeah, it was at mom Donnie's inauguration. Some people were holding their hand on their heart. Some people not. I was like, I don't.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I put my hand on my heart.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, at that particular thing, I thought it was important to do that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

That was one of the great events of my entire life. Kid, we've never really talked about that.

[Catherine Grody]

Mamdani's inauguration.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

I rerun in my mind every particular different speech is an antidote to the crap that's going on, you know, in the world.

[Catherine Grody]

Yeah. Dad, was that one of your favorite gigs ever?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Ever? I loved it.

[Catherine Grody]

You sang Somewhere over the Rainbow with

[Mandy Patinkin]

all these beautiful children from P.S. 22. And they were adorable. And it was such a moving day. The words from all the speakers were just so inspiring. Full of hope, optimism, possibility and language

[Kathryn Grody]

and thought and ideas and humanity. I mean, it was just so.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Collective empathy was just powerful.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, that's right. Collective empathy and the best of human beings were all on display there. And it was just so shocking that you were shocked to hear people in government display that kind of care.

[Catherine Grody]

I mean, there was a while ago, but something that we're definitely feeling January 1st.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm a complainer and I was outside from 9:30am in real cold weather until about 3pm Took me two and a half hours to feel my toes again. This was back in January and I never complained once. I was fine with it. 100%.

[Catherine Grody]

It's the first time for everything.

[Mandy Patinkin]

As I was warmed from the inside.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We like to welcome you to this new program which is only for family. Family intelligent questions. Family gathering.

[Catherine Grody]

Where are you from?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

We are from Orsiban.

[Catherine Grody]

Oh, that's great. Let me ask you.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes?

[Catherine Grody]

In Orsiban, do you guys have any habits that you've noticed that are. What would you say are your regular

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

habits or Sabanian habit habits?

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean outside of living.

[Catherine Grody]

I'm asking Catherine. And who are you?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I have a habit of annoying my family members. I don't know how I do it, but I feel it. They give me feedback and something about me is annoying for the family members.

[Catherine Grody]

And how do you. How do you cultivate this?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's an. I guess. I don't know. I don't. I don't cultivate it. It cultivates me. It. It grows without water or without food. It is just a habit.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Is it?

[Catherine Grody]

Mr. Ferrissen?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Big Ferguson. Fragon. Yes.

[Catherine Grody]

Mr. Fragon.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes.

[Catherine Grody]

What. What can you tell us about yourself?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

This is my sixth life. I've been here for six times. Each time no more than 120 years. That's when I leave. I go visit friends, relatives, ancestries. And then I wait 20, 30 minutes. I come back as a baby. I come, I grow very quickly and into adulthood it takes me maybe hour, hour and a half.

[Catherine Grody]

I've got so many follow up questions. Which of your six lifetimes were your favorite?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Number two.

[Catherine Grody]

And what happened in that life?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I had sex for the very first time in my life with a dinosaur. Incredible. A flying eagle. Dinosaur.

[Catherine Grody]

An eagle?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yes. You have six. You enter each other at the same time. Same time?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It's funny even when I think back on it. But then she flies and takes you into the sky and you are flying and soaring and woofing and doofing.

[Catherine Grody]

Woofing and doofing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Whoa.

[Catherine Grody]

Wow.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was wonderful. Nothing was ever flying.

[Kathryn Grody]

I cannot compare to a flying dinosaur, that's for sure. That was a

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

yes.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Wow.

[Catherine Grody]

That's really beautiful.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you for sharing that.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That was number two. Only had a very short life that only lived to 106.

[Catherine Grody]

Wow. It must have been hard to say

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

goodbye to that cold.

[Catherine Grody]

Do you have? I believe you're not from Earth. Are you from another planet?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No, from Earth. Oh yeah.

[Catherine Grody]

Which are you from? The center of the Earth or the outer part crust?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

The Earth crust.

[Catherine Grody]

Yeah.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

So like you ever see the Superman series in the 1950s in this country. Remember the little green people that came out. They went inside the well and they came out. And they live inside the crust of the earth. Yes, that was me. Me and Chophes.

[Catherine Grody]

Chopis, your best friend.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I loved him. He was so funny. Everything he says was like a joke.

[Catherine Grody]

Do you miss the earth's crust or are you happy out here on the surface?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It was itchy.

[Catherine Grody]

Itchy.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

They just made you dry. And they did was before was hand cream.

[Mandy Patinkin]

No hand cream.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

No hand cream, no creams.

[Catherine Grody]

And what? You know, I gotta say, I really like you. I don't want you to leave. Can we go back to the dinosaur sex where you enter each other in the air?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Everybody loves to talk about that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's so, you know, very unique.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

In our time was not unique. It's how you do it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's how you make back then.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Back then how you make dinosaur baby. This was before. This was before chocolate.

[Catherine Grody]

Oh, so really long time ago.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Well, it depends how you definition of time.

[Catherine Grody]

Did they have any traditional EC chocolate dinosaur songs or calls? Like what sound would they often make and what would that mean exactly?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I want to have dinosaur sex with an eaglet.

[Catherine Grody]

That's the dinosaur would say that I

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

do this and we hear the come out of it.

[Catherine Grody]

I don't know how to get out.

[Kathryn Grody]

What? What?

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

What?

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't either. Okay, that's the signal. We go back to something that is my eaglet father redeemable. Oh, my God.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

It will happen. Here, take off the shield.

[Kathryn Grody]

This is really madness.

[Catherine Grody]

Okay, guys, we're gonna take a little thank you.

[Kathryn Grody]

Thank you. Make it easy on.

[Catherine Grody]

And we got a live guest when we return. Iglic, I love you.

[Kathryn Grody]

Alive in person or alive on Zoom.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Is it someone that we know through mom or through me or dad?

[Kathryn Grody]

Male, Female?

[Catherine Grody]

You're not answering mom through me.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, is it a male?

[Kathryn Grody]

Honey, I can't remember anybody.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

I know.

[Kathryn Grody]

It's really starting.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Is it someone we've known all our lives?

[Catherine Grody]

Or in the past year those are the only options?

[Kathryn Grody]

Or is it?

[Catherine Grody]

After the break, our special guest is revealed. And he challenges everything Catherine thinks about AI.

[Mandy Patinkin]

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[Sponsor/Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Care Scout. You know when an aging parent needs help, the mental load on the family is just massive. How do you find home care? How do you know when it's time for assisted living? There's a million questions and generic online advice doesn't cut it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It really doesn't. You end up staring at a million moving parts, guessing. And that's just not good enough when it comes to the people you love.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Care Scout is a comprehensive aging care platform that helps families find, fund and plan for quality care. Their Care Scout Quality Network actually vets home care and senior living providers against strict person centered care standards. So you know you're getting trusted care.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Plus they connect you with senior living advisors who are actually local. These are people who live in your area and know the landscape firsthand so you aren't just guessing. They bring total clarity back to your family's journey.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Exactly. Let Care Scout do the heavy lifting so you can focus on just being

[Mandy Patinkin]

a family or Simply head to carescout.com don'tlisten to find a clear path forward.

[Catherine Grody]

Mom dad we have a very special guest joining us today, a dear friend of the family. He's here to help us answer a listener question. Please welcome Mikael Suleiman.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Mommy guess it.

[Mandy Patinkin]

She guessed it.

[Catherine Grody]

Mikael is a computer composer, sound designer, writer, Tony Award, Tony Award nominated multidisciplinary artist, one of our dearest friends, and one of the best people in the history of the world.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Grody]

Hello.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Do some multidisciplinary stuff for us.

[Mikael Suleiman]

I don't know if the camera can handle it. You know, Excuse me.

[Kathryn Grody]

I just want to say something that is an example of the kind of energy that Mikael. Am I not supposed to call you meek anymore? Is that new?

[Mikael Suleiman]

I don't love it. You know you don't love it. I know they're supposed to, but I just. You know.

[Kathryn Grody]

I know. Now you're telling me, but this is one of those things that we have talked about.

[Mikael Suleiman]

How did.

[Kathryn Grody]

I guess.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't know if you were hearing, but we said, gideon, can we guess who it is?

[Catherine Grody]

And then.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And then we explain, is it someone we know from a long time ago? And the first thing out of her mouth, is it me? And then he gave us a lecture.

[Kathryn Grody]

And then he gave me a lecture about your name.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Good, good.

[Mandy Patinkin]

And I told him, my name is Mandy anymore.

[Mikael Suleiman]

You could. Yeah.

[Catherine Grody]

Yeah, I did.

[Kathryn Grody]

I love that so much.

[Catherine Grody]

Mom, can you. Can you explain? We first came to know Mikael.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes. This is a very. This is a debatable thing in our family, because everybody wants to take credit. No, it's you.

[Catherine Grody]

You guys work together.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, but sometimes you say you found him and I did.

[Catherine Grody]

I never claimed that.

[Kathryn Grody]

I thought you did.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Welcome to the fight. This is round one and we have a big crowd this evening. Everyone is really charged.

[Catherine Grody]

Mom, how did you meet me?

[Kathryn Grody]

I. I was asked to do a very crazy workshop that will go unnamed, mainly because I don't even remember the name of it. And I felt there were a lot of issues for me in that workshop that came up. But I felt the gift was finding Mikael. And that was a real gift.

[Mikael Suleiman]

And it's mainly because, a, you make me laugh. And all three of you do, you know, like, so hard and you're so smart and, like, have some of the wildest thoughts, you know, like whenever I hang out with Gideon, he'll say something that I'm just like, where are you? To your point? Like, am I on earth? You know, did I. Did I drop a tab of acid by mistake? And also you're, like, just deeply concerned about the world and the well being of everybody around you. And the gift that you two specifically have given me has allowed me to crash at the house when I was too broke to do it. Now my career has gotten off and I don't have to do that as much anymore. But I can't get you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The bill is now on the way. The bill?

[Mikael Suleiman]

The invoice. Send it to 200 someplace away, you know.

[Catherine Grody]

Mika, what are you doing in the city right now? What are you working on there?

[Mikael Suleiman]

So I'm getting ready to do a show called the Monsters and I'm also about to do Death of a Salesman on Broadway. Nathan Lane, who's probably a friend of yours. Scott Rudin's producing, Joe Montello's directing. Very fancy. They flew me out. So that's why you out and put

[Kathryn Grody]

you up, I hope.

[Catherine Grody]

How else are they going to get you to New York?

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah. Really. Can I just say what one of the things I treasure about this relationship is? We don't. We have a lot in common in our perspective and a lot not. And I have the best times most of the time. Sometimes we irritate each other a little bit. If it's pouring away, I just laugh.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Whenever you like say something that's insane. I just like, oh, there goes Kathy Mikael.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's exactly what I do. When she irritates me, I just laugh.

[Kathryn Grody]

Mikael, you help me often be less terrified of the future in terms of AI realms and people becoming machines. The last time we talked about it, I've quoted you a million times because you said something that really landed, which is one thing that AI will not ever be able to do is capture idiosyncratic behavior. And that just calmed me because I really felt that is absolutely friggin true. And so I will be less horrified, terrified and pissed off. I'm getting a signal. Oh, sorry. Not supposed to say that when you

[Mandy Patinkin]

give us a signal, we shouldn't try

[Catherine Grody]

to give you a signal. Off camera.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, off camera.

[Catherine Grody]

Trying to make a transition. We've been doing this now for 32 episodes. Every time I do a signal, you

[Mikael Suleiman]

go, oh, we're getting a signal.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Can you show the colored Adwalla thermos? That was the old signal.

[Catherine Grody]

Because that's not what my signal is for.

[Mandy Patinkin]

My signal, we used to have a color.

[Catherine Grody]

My signal is that Catherine made a great transition into our next part. But then when we talk about all this other. I don't have the transition anymore,

[Kathryn Grody]

Ma.

[Catherine Grody]

That that thought about AI and your guys conversation on that topic for a while is a great opening to this question that we got. It seemed like a perfect fit for you and Mikael and Dad, would you read this letter from Peter and then we can discuss.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm a youngish actor in la. I haven't had that many roles yet. But I'm really worried about how quickly AI is changing the landscape. I wonder what you two, as established performers thought about the AI actor Tilly Norwood. It scared the hell out of me. As new actors who haven't yet built our reputations, competition from AI isn't abstract. I have friends who relied on commercials to make ends meet, and that work has totally dried up. I fear for our livelihoods, but also I fear for the future of this craft that I want to devote my life to. The thing I love about acting is that it taps into and exposes the most human part of us. But what if that has no value anymore? Wondering if you have any thoughts or wisdom to share, Peter?

[Catherine Grody]

So I'd love to go to Mikael for your thoughts on Peter's question first, because I know this is a subject you've spent a lot of time thinking about, and. And I know we have lots of different feelings in the mix here.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Yeah, it's a good question, Peter. And it's a question that obviously everyone is asking themselves. Frankly, in every aspect of the world. I think it's pretty clear that AI is going to be the new electricity, the new Internet. I remember when people would tell me that the refrigerator was connected to the Internet and I'd be like, for what? You know. But, you know, I think a lot about this in regards to, like, when fast food started, you know, and when McDonald's came out. Burger King, Arby's, I'm sure, specifically McDonald's, because it was the first one that really franchised wide. I'm sure there are a lot of people who thought, oh, this is going to be the death of restaurants, you know, but fact of the matter is, there's still Michelin star restaurants. There's still people cooking at home. There's no. But sometimes you do need a fast meal that you just want to go out and just get really quickly. So, yes, Tilly Norwood, the AI actress that Peter's talking about, will be out in the wild doing things. But more than likely, it's going to be fast food. It's going to be things that people will want in a pinch when they want to see something while they're sitting on the can or at a train station waiting for their next, you know, trip. But they're not going to be going there to get the Spike Lee, the Scorsese, the Ryan Cooglers of the world, you know.

[Kathryn Grody]

Okay.

[Catherine Grody]

And just so our audience knows, Tilly Norwood was like the first AI actor who had, you know, representation and was. Did they get put into a piece yet or.

[Mikael Suleiman]

I don't think she got put into a piece, but she was, quote, unquote. There was a bidding war to be able to get her to join the agency. This all got debunked, and it was actually somebody who created a article about this, so that's actually not entirely true. But there will be AI actors, 1000%. And when I tell you they're going to look good, they're going to act well in ways that you won't believe. And primarily because a lot of the AI is starting to use human driven AI, meaning they will have your face doing all the acting. Kind of like what James Cameron does with the Avatar movies, where there'll be a real actor, but that same actor can play literally countless roles. Because they will drive the old man and they'll change the old man's voice. They'll drive a young boy, change the old boy's voice and face so that, you know, there will be a human who will perform the role, but then they will recapture it with, you know, another person so they look like a different person. So they could easily drop a cast from 100 people to, like, 10, you know, which is like.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's so wild when you look. And if you scroll through Instagram for a moment and. And they show, like, an old photograph of someone and then they have this app where it makes the photograph come to life.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's insane.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Yeah. And it looks really good, right?

[Mandy Patinkin]

100%.

[Catherine Grody]

So how does this all not threaten Peter's livelihood and going into acting, this thing he's committed his life to, he loves it, but he's wondering if it even has any value anymore.

[Mikael Suleiman]

I think Catherine is going to explode if she doesn't say what she has to say.

[Kathryn Grody]

So I want to respond.

[Catherine Grody]

That'll be my favorite.

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean, this is what I talked about. I'm hearing Mikael explain, you know, how it's inevitable, there's nothing we can do about it, and we'll adapt. But great, because fast food restaurants didn't impact Michelin restaurants or good restaurants. If people had ever been able to eat at both, if people have only been able to afford and only knew about fast food and they didn't know any other kind of food to compare it to, then they're fucked. Okay? And I say, no hitting the table, Mom. I say that this is just. This is. This is so horrifying to me because I didn't see this Tilly Norwood, but I saw some Southern singer, you know, that they came up with, and the fact that they were pretending he was human but they'd created him, and I can't tell the frigging difference. And I desperately believe there is a difference. And I don't want to be like lemmings, just, you know, I feel this whole technology business, we just were so awed by it. Oh, wow, look what my phone can do. Yes, we know this, too. We know this. So how can we learn from how stupid we were about just being our lives being overrun by the good and bad of this? How do we learn to have the guardrails to protect what is actually human? And is that valuable, or are we just going to give that away and say machines are better?

[Catherine Grody]

Well, one thing that I, like Mikael, has talked about is imperfection as our human advantage.

[Kathryn Grody]

Right.

[Catherine Grody]

That, like, can't be taken away. Do you feel that that's a big part of it, Mikael?

[Mikael Suleiman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I 1000% believe that's true. But I want to back up a step because I think the thing that you said, Catherine, is really important, which is the good and the bad of it all. And I think the reality is Chernobyl happened, but it doesn't make nuclear energy bad. If anything, is actually way better than fossil fuel, because Chernobyl happened. We haven't had a lot of nuclear energy because people are scared of Chernobyl happening. So I don't think that it's actually a good and bad AI is good or bad. That's not the binary. The binary or not even. Because we shouldn't even talk in binaries in this because it's way more complex than that. I think the move is when, you know, I'm a hip hop kid. So when hip hop came out, there were people who were using the sampler. And you probably remember when hip hop came out that people weren't really that excited about this music that was chopping up other classic songs and making them these new things. And it's like, yeah, that actually gave way to a whole new generation of music that frankly, I would argue was the biggest, best thing to happen to racism is hip hop. There's some Southern kids who listen to more hip hop than they listen to country music. Or now they're meshing country music with hip hop because of the things that happened in the 80s and things like that in the 70s, when hip hop was coming up with all those amazing, like, Run DMC and, you know, Grandmaster Flash and all those cats. So I feel like the AI of it all, yes, it will change things. Let's just talk about it in the sense of, like, with music. Like, there will be people who will only know hip hop for the most part, but they're still going to listen to classics. And you see that happening all the time where someone will listen to some, you know, Billy Joel thing or some Michael Jackson track that they've never heard off the wall and they're like, oh my God, this sounds amazing. Doesn't mean that they're not going to still listen to hip hop, but they'll hear it from another pov. Go ahead, Kathryn. I don't want you to.

[Kathryn Grody]

This is a classic example of why different intergenerational communication is so utterly important. Because Mikael always gives me a more optimistic view of something current than I feel in my gut. However, what I'm thinking is, are humans going to need a watermark? Like, you know, with a real bill versus a counter?

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Hi, I.

[Kathryn Grody]

This is me and I know you've seen the version of me that is saying shit I don't believe in, that looks exactly like me and sounds like me because we have no fucking guardrails and I don't own myself. And my friend Kashmir Hill wrote a book called you'd Do Not Own youn Face, which is friggin read that and tell me how optimistic you are. Do I need a watermark anytime I see you to show you that I'm the real person versus though I'm listening, I'm listening. And really gonna put it in my general hopper to still my terror. But I am still questioning the primacy of being human versus facsimiles of us.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Well, I think the thing that you're most concerned about is the humanity of it all, obviously. And that's obviously very important. And just in regards to the watermarking, it's interesting because Instagram's had, I think it's the CEO of Instagram literally said it will be easier to mark what is human versus what is AI because there's just going to be so much AI in the world. But I argue that that's similar to organic and non organic. You go to, you go to Whole Foods, they have an organic sign on almost everything. You go to a farming table restaurant, they tell you how organic it was and how it's from farm to table. And so yeah, I do think yes, things will be labeled because they have to be labeled, but I don't think that it's going to be such a hard thing to be able to find the human thing. You will know when you're at a Michelin star restaurant. You just know. And you know when you're at McDonald's and it doesn't discount McDonald's. I've gone to McDonald's. I'm sure you guys have gone to McDonald's. It doesn't mean that McDonald's should be banned because it's bad food. Even though I'm sure RFK will probably want that. Some people do need it, you know? And I do think some people will not want the highfalutin Scorsese film. They will just want some McDonald's. But every once in a while, a friend that they know down the street named Catherine will show them the Scorsese film that they really need to see. And they're like, oh, wow, that's really cool. Doesn't mean that they're now going to only watch Scorsese stuff.

[Mandy Patinkin]

They're still going to watch a Scorsese film with a Big Mac and a bucket of fries.

[Mikael Suleiman]

That sounds like an awesome night. Let's do that soon.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah. And a chocolate chemical shake.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Catherine Grody]

Don't you guys think we get turned off by the unhuman? That it's uncanny and we crave that authenticity? Or you're saying that soon it will be indistinguishable?

[Mikael Suleiman]

It is already indistinguishable. Like, there are things.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I've got an example to talk about. Turned off. Like, Ed said, a buddy of mine has a son who wrote a song, wanted me to hear it. I listened to the song. I thought it was terrific. The lyrics, the music, the voice was amazing. I meet the kid and I'm telling him, I'm praising him for it. He said, well, I wrote the lyrics and the music, but it's an AI voice. I said, excuse me? He said, the voice is AI.

[Mikael Suleiman]

I know the music is the most vulnerable because music your ears. Like, I could play white noise for you, and you'll think it's the ocean. Like, our ears lie to us all the time. And obviously, being a sound designer, I'm mostly sensitive to the idea that AI music is just going to decimate the music industry, like, because it will sound good. They'll use little bits and pieces of everything. But frankly, and this is what I say in the podcast around Art of Being Human is that that is how humans are. Like, we remix everything. Everything is a remix. But again, this is where I get back to the human connected to AI is that that's going to allow the kid who didn't go to, you know, Berkeley Music School to be able to make the piece of music when he's listening to Michael and he's listening to Cat Stevens and he's thinking about this Jay Z lyric and to make this weird Amalgamation of those three and to be able to release it to the world. Now, that kid who was maybe in a low income or had other disabilities, like he's paralyzed or something like that, can now make that piece of music and spread it out to the world. And that's one of those things that again, it's not right or wrong, AI. It's about how we're using it as humans. And I'm a humanist, I'm an optimist in regards to humanity. And I do think there will be ways that we'll be able to do it and they'll be watermarked and he will have to tell people, yes, I made this with AI. But isn't it so beautiful and amazing and totally different than anything anyone has ever heard?

[Catherine Grody]

Next up, does Catherine change her mind about AI? I think ma, something that comes up here for me is like, what's the opportunity in this moment? You, you know, if you feel passionately about these things about protections or the safeguards with AI or tech companies, like AI is here, like it's already a part of our world and it's undeniably going to be more a part of our world. Like it doesn't actually do anything for me. Just yell that you don't like it.

[Kathryn Grody]

No, I know.

[Catherine Grody]

Considering that it is here here, it's here to stay and it's going to be growing. How do you, as a person with a strong feeling about human made art, participate in driving this technology to a place that is more in the shape of creation and less destructive, as you're worried about?

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, it's a good question and it is always provoked by talk about this shit with Mikhail, because I seem to be able to control my burgeoning terror coming out of your ears when I'm with him. I mean, I don't want to be one of those people. You know, I used to define myself. Oh, I'm a 60s person. What does that mean? That was when I was sort of politically formed. And does that mean I'm now solidly set and not keeping ongoing development? I don't want to be one of those people. I don't want to be afraid of electricity. But I did write down in my notes here, the Amish community, man, sometimes I just want to join those people. They don't use zippers, they still have horse and buggies. None of this shit is totally impacting them. Still, I think you have these options. I think my biggest concern, you want

[Mandy Patinkin]

to join an Amish community, I'll do that with you.

[Kathryn Grody]

I just Want to know they're there still.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I think we can get in. We can talk our way in.

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't know, hon. I.

[Mikael Suleiman]

What?

[Kathryn Grody]

I really, it's what is real and what is pretend, what is true and what is false, what is make believe and what is actually. Those distinctions are still important to me. I. I don't give a shit that an AI sounds like a real performer, and it's good. I really want to hear that. That croakiness. And I want to hear. I. I'm terrified. Mikael.

[Catherine Grody]

That's no pounding on the table.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm sorry.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I am an AI version of her wouldn't.

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't understand. I got duped, which really shocked me, you know, in August, I got duped by somebody that was pretending to be Sanjay Gupta pretending to be Anderson Cooper. I thought they were real. I find this horrifying that I have no protection over the use of my voice. If somebody can't speak and they need a voice, instead of like Stephen Hawking had to speak like a machine. I would love to be able to volunteer my voice if I wanted to. You know, I want some agency over my humanity. I want it to be out in the world, and I want to be in charge of how it's used. I don't want somebody who may have a whole different idea.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Isn't she in charge of how it's used? At this point? If somebody tries to use her voice, make her face, can't she sue those people?

[Mikael Suleiman]

Yes, you can, to a degree. So it's just kind of like a documentarian filmmaker. If you're at an event, they can show people who are. Or maybe not a private event, but if you're on the sidewalk, they can show your face whether you like it or not. It's just part of the reality of that. But to your point, Mandy, if they're using it for commercial purposes, they cannot. They can't sell your likeness or your voice or something like that. Yes, you're using this podcast. They can't record you doing this. But this is the crazy part, and unfortunately, this is not going to make you feel better. But it's important to understand there are tools where they will remix your voice, so they will get your voice mixed with someone else's voice. But your voice is the guide because of the way you talk and the expressions that you use and everything like that. Like I said before, there will be the Tilly Norwoods. And this is to get back to Peter's question, there will be the Tilly Norwoods who will still be out in the wild and they will be remixes of other people. And maybe Peter, this guy, I'm guessing guy, will perform something and that they will actually put Tilly Norwood on his face and his voice. Now, he may accept that that might be a nice fee. It's kind of like being an extra in some film or TV show. That might be some way for him to make money. But this is where I keep going down to the road around. It's still important to do the thing, to still be idiosyncratic. So Peter should still find ways to get into acting classes. Peter should still be reading the classics and the greats because there still will be Michelin star restaurants. But Peter might need to, in the early days, go work at McDonald's for a little bit and be this actor who's, you know, getting the chili.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Norwood. I think it's why he might be in the theater. I think it's why we love the theater.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Thank you.

[Mandy Patinkin]

The theater, the live theater venue, you. You can't fuck with that.

[Mikael Suleiman]

You cannot fuck with that. But I will say there will be AI that will get into that, which I won't bore you with, but I already know there will be ways that AI is infiltrating that space. It's already happening. But that's another conversation.

[Catherine Grody]

But I also think just a little counter to that thought, I'm curious how you feel about is this notion that it forces us to be idiosyncratic and that it calls mediocrity, like from the herd, because all mediocrity will be done by AI but then my question is, so many artists and creatives enter into that field, as you know, in a lower level, as a productionist, as an intern doing more kind of less creative, less idiosyncratic original work, as they are exposed to their peers and people who are further ahead in that process and they like, acclimate to that originality. If you have the entire industry, you know, outsourcing that to AI how do you, as a younger person or a newer person to this game, get immersed in it, where you're starting out, not making the great original stuff, and you get there, is there no place for that world?

[Mandy Patinkin]

So you're saying how do you find your own voice? Right?

[Catherine Grody]

I mean, how do you practice?

[Kathryn Grody]

How do you learn?

[Catherine Grody]

Quoted Miles Davis I think once that it takes a long time to sound like yourself. Yeah, but for a lot of people, a long time to sound like yourself, you're around other creatives at lower levels. But if there aren't any of Those lower levels, how do you get there?

[Mikael Suleiman]

Oh, man, I'm so sorry. I keep trying to interrupt you. I'm sorry, Gideon.

[Catherine Grody]

Oh, no, that's what.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Because I'm chopping at the family.

[Catherine Grody]

That's the Family Dynamics family brand.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Remember, your name is Mikael Brody Hyphenkla.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Exactly. This is one of those things where you just outlined a very traditional process which I think is valid, important, and will still exist in the world, which is you go to school, you get some PA job, you work your way up, then you get a more important job, and then you work your way up more and so on and so forth. AI is going to allow people to graduate from college and try shit out straight out the door without having to be a PA and get underpaid. Because, by the way, PAs don't get paid well. And let's stop pretending like they do, right? So it's not a good job, it's not an honorable job to be a pa, but it's a job that you get to be able to get into the industry. So for people to be able to go immediately from college to learn all the skills that they've learned now with their friends, like back in the day, people would make indie films or be a garage band or be like, you know, Steve Jobs in a garage. You know, Silicon Company is that people will just be able to start doing those things without having to go through, I would call it a very broken system to be able to get to success. Because a lot of people got broke, broken, just by being a pa. Someone yelled at them, somebody. You know, unfortunately, some essay happened, you know what I mean? Like, a lot of dark things happened to these kids who are coming out.

[Kathryn Grody]

Sexual abuse.

[Catherine Grody]

Sexual abuse, yeah.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Or assault. You know, like just things happen. All I'm trying to say is things happen where people are young, hungry, trying to find a way to get into the quote, unquote, White Castle or the Big Castle. To be able to break into the industry. Now that is completely shrunk, that is now democratized. Now anybody can make a feature film with their iPhone and some friends that will look like, maybe not Christopher Nolan, but a nice indie like Bottle Rocket from, you know, Wes Anderson. You know, like, it will look like something that. That is marketable, that people will want to go see. And that's what's, I think, most important in this conversation with Peter in particular.

[Kathryn Grody]

I mean, it's so interesting because it's a longer conversation, but that whole idea of journeyman process where shit happens and you don't feel respected or you make a connection, but you're learning something. The whole idea of building character partly because of how you learn to deal with shit.

[Catherine Grody]

And other humans.

[Kathryn Grody]

And other humans, yes. And I'm just thinking of how we will have our character built if we just erase some of those challenging moments.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Do you know I'm daydreaming about something. There's a movie that I've been preparing and I look forward to doing it. They're trying to raise the final money, but you know, I'm getting on in years. I hope I get to live to be a hundred, but you know, once you're 40 something and you know, people start checking out, you don't know how long you get to be here. No matter how well you eat or exercise, you hope for the best. And if I'm partway through that film, you know, enough through that film where, you know, a lot of money's been spent, you know, a lot of hours. So we got, let's say I'm three quarter or halfway or, or something, but there's some other, a lot of stuff left to do. That's an interesting question. If I have to sign a paper or not or if it's legal or not to have a computer create the rest of me in that story. And in the old days there would be no choice. You have to reshoot the whole damn thing and recast it.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Yeah, yeah. I mean that one is one of the best points because that's one of the things I was talking about before where in the industry there will be things that are going to lower the cost because these 200, $500 Million. 500 million films is insane.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mikael Suleiman]

There are people starving on the street and you're making another, you know, like avatar movie for 200, 300 million. God bless, you know, you know, James Cameron, but I mean, come on. So these things will lower the cost. But to your direct question, Mandy, this is where you can be in your living room, have Catherine holding the phone and we put it on a stand. You record the scene maybe with the other actor, maybe it's a monologue that you have. And then we can put you anywhere and you will look like you were in that location and it will look amazing. They won't need to shut down the film, they won't need to recast the film. And it won't be a computer doing it, it'll be you doing it. But then they can reskin it with your time where you had this beautiful beard, this Amish beard of yours. They can, you can shave that, and they will be able to put it all on you and make it look exactly, exactly like you with your voice and make it seamless. And, yeah, it makes sense that you would want to protect everything, but that's just not realistic and it's not human. You know, like, we have to trust each other at some point and trust the process, which is that there will be laws about this stuff, and no one's going to be able to finish a movie without you and make a computer do all these emotional moments with you. But we will, with this technology, allow you to be home in upstate or wherever you are and be able to, you know, finish the film in your living room. And it's going to be amazing.

[Catherine Grody]

I mean, yeah, that to me is like, yeah, that sounds good for a period, but that's just. That's just on the way to.

[Mikael Suleiman]

It's only the complicated times.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, man.

[Mikael Suleiman]

I don't think. At least I don't think it's going to make anyone obsolete who has, especially the idiosyncrasies of Amanda Patinkin or Kathryn Grody or Gideon, is that those things are still going to be necessary to be able to finish the project. I'm just saying, in that very specific moment where they're almost crossing the line, they had to reimagine the script because the guy needs to now be in a warehouse and not in an open field. Maybe can you record this really quickly? That kind of thing. This is not going to make actors obsolete.

[Kathryn Grody]

I just always feel better about the future anytime I spend any time with you, Mikael. So I am so grateful. You always. You always take a sort of ordinary fear and expand it to a possibility of hope, which is really an amazing gift. I want to tell everybody about Enzo, which is your podcast, Black Enzo. Black Enzo, which I have listened to the JJJ Ellis thing maybe 10 times because I think it's one of my favorite things. Amazing musician and your piece about AI, which is really helpful. But I also want to say the fact is, none of us know shit. None of us know. We can only go either optimistically, and see how we deal with this new thing or not. The fact is, I'll Never forget a 1965 Life magazine article that predicted in the future everybody would be so free from technology, they wouldn't have any work because all these machines and technology. So they'd be getting 10 PhDs and, well, nobody said, guess what? The technology would tether you to be working 247 all the time, and you would have no free time. To do anything. We don't know what's going to happen. So I think the healthiest thing to possibly do is put you and me together as one single human being, and this side is that. And so we go forward with both caution and hope in all the.

[Mikael Suleiman]

That's the thing.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mandy is reigning in here.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Caution and hope.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

That's the key.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Yeah. Because I'm not, like, kind of delusional that there's not something to be cautioned about, but I'm very hopeful.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm very excited on the East Coast.

[Catherine Grody]

You're not delusional for that reason.

[Kathryn Grody]

Just a whole lot of other reasons. God is too many.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Lose your delusion. Your delusionality.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Don't. Your delusionality. I'm going to put that on a T shirt.

[Catherine Grody]

Okay, we got.

[Mandy Patinkin]

We've got to say large.

[Catherine Grody]

We've got to say goodbye. But I really look forward to the AI hybrid of Mikhail, Suleiman and Kathy

[Kathryn Grody]

and Peter and Peter.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't want to say.

[Kathryn Grody]

Don't give up being human.

[Mikael Suleiman]

Go to the theater.

[Kathryn Grody]

Go to the theater.

[Catherine Grody]

People sometimes start singing, and you never know. Oh, he.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, my God.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Listen, I love your soul. I love everything about you.

[Mikael Suleiman]

For every.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Any reason I can't finish anything I'm doing, I'm putting it in the contract in my will that you are to take over no matter how much of the movie is over, and finish my role.

[Mikael Suleiman]

I'm there, Captain.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm there.

[Mikael Suleiman]

All right, take care, everybody. I love you guys.

[Catherine Grody]

Thanks so much. Talk to you soon. All right. Well, you know what time it is.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's howdy, hanging time.

[Kathryn Grody]

Oh, it's hanging hang time.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Hang time.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, I love that.

[Catherine Grody]

We all know that hobbies are a great thing in life.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I got a cold.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Catherine Grody]

Hobbies bring flow state, brain, health, community, all the good stuff. Mom, you, I think, feel you have many hobbies. Dad, you've talked about lack of hobbies. Dad said he didn't like hobbies. I can't keep track, but I'm going to pitch some activities just because I'm curious if you feel drawn to them or not. Okay. Would you ever try burlesque dancing?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Mom?

[Sponsor/Announcer]

No.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Dad. Yes.

[Catherine Grody]

Okay. Have you done it before?

[Mandy Patinkin]

Are you referring to the old days when it was part of vaudeville, or are you referring to when it became a stripping word?

[Catherine Grody]

Well, that would be stripping. Burlesque is still. No, no, no.

[Mandy Patinkin]

In the old days, burlesque was.

[Catherine Grody]

They still have that now.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I know now they use it. I believe now the term is used for stripping, taking off your Clothes.

[Catherine Grody]

No, I'm trying to say the burlesque you're thinking of back in the day

[Mandy Patinkin]

still exists today as performing, not stripping.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes, I'd love to do burlesque.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Great old vaudeville. So carving vaudeville.

[Kathryn Grody]

Soap carving would be curious, but I'm more interested in wood carving than soap carving, I think.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Okay.

[Catherine Grody]

I'd like to do soap train spotting. That's where you keep track of different trains that are going by with their serial numbers and all that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Not interested.

[Kathryn Grody]

Not interested.

[Catherine Grody]

Okay. Pickleball.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yes, I really want to play that.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Same here.

[Catherine Grody]

Okay.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

I'm.

[Catherine Grody]

I could.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm waiting to go pickle us. Collaging, well, that's my favorite thing I. I have. Those are some things I've made in my life that I'm proud of. Only artistic things I've ever done.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's mom's thing. Not for me.

[Catherine Grody]

No collaging for you. Fantasy football.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Completely uninterested.

[Catherine Grody]

Any kind of football.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yes, I'm interested in playing non tackle, non hurting football. Like touch football. Like flag football where you got to grab the flag out of the other guy's pocket.

[Catherine Grody]

You know that involves running.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Yeah, running's fine. You know, with the kids, with friends. I think that's a fun game.

[Kathryn Grody]

I hate football of any kind. I hate that our grandson thinks it's fun and pretends to tackle.

[Catherine Grody]

He doesn't know what football is.

[Kathryn Grody]

Well, he knows it's tackling.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

He just says he knows.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Right now it's 21 times 4. 13 o' clock with 13, 7, 8, 6.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Catherine Grody]

Can't even begin. I know what that means, but I like the sound of it. Dog showing.

[Kathryn Grody]

I think it's sort of interesting to watch some of those sometimes. I think it's part of Becky.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I do it all the time. There she is. I am a dog shower.

[Kathryn Grody]

The dog chest.

[Catherine Grody]

Go to one of those fancy dog shows.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I wouldn't mind going once I've got it way over them.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah, Yeah. I think it's kind of one of those.

[Mandy Patinkin]

That's a comedown for me.

[Kathryn Grody]

I don't really understand all that cooking.

[Catherine Grody]

Well.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Oh, love to.

[Kathryn Grody]

Love to cook. I wish I could easily and enjoyably.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't need this cook.

[Catherine Grody]

Well, bodybuilding, yes.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm in it right now.

[Kathryn Grody]

I'm sort of in it. I'm sort of doing. We're doing strength training, which is different than bodybuilding. I think that's great.

[Mandy Patinkin]

It's both. It's the same.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Well.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Well, bodybuilding is usually more the aesthetic aspect of how your body looks. The strength training is training every muscle in your body so you're completely fit.

[Catherine Grody]

So you're not. You're not doing this just to get hot.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I'm doing both.

[Catherine Grody]

You want to be hot,

[Kathryn Grody]

dad? It's amazing. The impact on the.

[Mandy Patinkin]

I don't care what age you are, I don't think you can ever be hot enough.

[Catherine Grody]

Oh, I love that. I think that's a great note to end on, folks. You can never be hot enough. You heard it here on don't listen to us.

[Kathryn Grody]

You didn't hear it from me.

[Catherine Grody]

Thanks for sharing.

[Kathryn Grody]

I think there's way too much emphasis on what is hot and what is not. That's me.

[Catherine Grody]

Catherine says you should should be less hot. Mandy says get hotter.

[Kathryn Grody]

Yeah.

[Catherine Grody]

We want to hear from you. More questions, stories, advice for us. What is going on? How hot can you get in life? Please send us an email to ask mandyankatherinemail.com check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. Thank you for being here and tuning in. And do not listen to us, but

[Kathryn Grody]

listen to Mikael and some of our other friends.

[Catherine Grody]

Listen to our guests. Listen to your heart.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Listen to yourself.

[Kathryn Grody]

Hey, remember, you have a heart which AI does not really have.

[Mandy Patinkin]

Don't run away.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Listen to yourself, yourself.

[Kathryn Grody]

Take yourself the shelf, not your AI. Put it in your human self.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Check it out.

[Kathryn Grody]

Listen to your human self. It has a real heartbeat. I can feel your pulse.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Hey, listen, listen, listen every day to who you are. Listen, listen, listen, listen don't go away

[Mandy Patinkin]

from who you are. Find a way to know what everything

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

is in doing, doing inside your little

[Mandy Patinkin]

brain and saying go, go, go, go, go.

[Kathryn Grody]

Taps for the human being.

[Catherine Grody]

Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Katherine Grody and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Executive producers are Kathryn Grody, Gideon Grody Patinkin, Mandy Patinkin, Katrina Onstadt, Debbie Pacheco, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles Wax. Our engineer is Ryan Derringer of Welterweight Sound. Video and audio production by Mark Whiteway of Bellows Media. You can watch on CNN.com watch or the CNN app watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on our video. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Media Premium yet, now's the perfect time. You can hear don't Listen to Us completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like behind the scenes conversations, questions so weird they didn't make it on air. Becky the Dog shenanigans and more. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts, head to lemonadapremium to subscribe on any other app, or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. That's lemonadapremium.

[Gideon Grody Patinkin]

Com.

[Catherine Grody]

Don't miss out.