Podcast Summary: Don't Listen To Us – Introducing: What's The Plan? from Indivisible

Date: January 30, 2026
Hosts: Leah Greenberg and Ezra Levin (Indivisible), guest Erica Chenoweth
Network: Lemonada Media

Episode Overview

This episode departs from the usual "Don't Listen to Us" format to spotlight "What's the Plan?", a podcast from Indivisible and Lemonada Media, focused on grassroots organizing to resist authoritarianism in America. Hosted by Indivisible founders (and spouses) Leah Greenberg and Ezra Levin, the episode dives into the role of local organizing, current political developments, and strategies to counteract authoritarian threats, with a special focus on community actions and nonviolent resistance. The guest for this episode is Erica Chenoweth, a leading scholar of social movements and nonviolent action.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Urgency of Grassroots Action

• Context: The episode opens acknowledging increased threats against immigrant communities and overall democratic stability in the U.S.
• Mission: Indivisible’s approach is not just to lament the state of affairs, but to organize and empower millions for tangible, local-level resistance.

Quote:

“Democracy is not a spectator sport. If we want to beat these fascist clowns, we all have to get off the field.”
— Leah Greenberg (03:09)

2. Celebrating and Growing the Movement ([04:09])

• New Indivisible groups are sprouting nationwide—including deep red areas and abroad (e.g., Auckland, NZ).
• Power is built locally: people step up because "shit is fucked up" and decide to organize.
• Movement isn’t led from the top down, but by thousands of local leaders.

Quote:

“It’s genuinely inspiring to see people power organized, nonviolent people power repelling a fascist regime that is trying to make us submit.”
— Ezra Levin (06:32)

3. Political Context: Congress and DHS/ICE Funding ([07:23])

• Recent events in Minnesota—including the killing of ICU nurse Alex Preddy—sparked massive community resistance and shifted Senate Democrats to oppose contentious DHS/ICE funding.
• Democrats are currently unified against funding what hosts call “the regime's secret police.”
• The public response and organized resistance drove these political shifts more than the events themselves.

Quote:

“It was not the murder and it was not the slander that shifted the political climate. It was the public response.”
— Ezra Levin (10:51)

4. Expert Guest: Erica Chenoweth on Effective Resistance

[13:52] Elements of Success in Mass Organizing

• Broad, diverse participation across race, class, and sector (faith, labor, business, etc.).
• Creative, multi-pronged tactics—not just protest, but boycotts, mutual aid, and alternative institutions.
• Turning state repression into “backfire”: only works when abuses are widely witnessed and communicated.
• Defections and shifts occur when influential insiders respond to organized public outrage.

Quote:

“Actions only backfire when they are witnessed widely and made obvious that the state’s violence was unjust and disproportionate to the situation.”
— Erica Chenoweth (15:45)

• Discipline and nonviolent training are crucial for maintaining unity and clarity.
• Organizing should prioritize helping neighbors and community, not conspiracies or secrecy.

5. The Power and Limits of Mass Protest ([19:50])

• Large-scale single-day protests are symbolically and materially powerful; they can impact voter turnout, legislative action, and public opinion.
• However, one-off protests are not sufficient—movements require ongoing momentum and diversified tactics targeting various societal power centers.

Quote:

“Protest is a tactic, and what is needed are strategies to build momentum, build power, and put pressure on institutions... that can actually bring about the change that’s needed.”
— Erica Chenoweth (22:05)

6. Strategy: Beyond “Against”—The Coalition of No and Yes ([24:35])

• Movements need both unity in opposition to authoritarianism (the “coalition of no”) and development of a shared vision for the future (the “coalition of yes”), even if these not always perfectly overlap.

Quote:

“Being against unites, being for divides… both things need to happen contemporaneously, but not necessarily by the same set of actors at the same time.”
— Erica Chenoweth (24:35)

7. The Role of Economic Action ([27:10])

• Boycotts and targeted economic campaigns amplify street actions and build leverage.
• Historical and ongoing Indivisible campaigns cited: against Spotify (ICE recruitment ads), Avelo Airlines (deportation flights), and Disney (pressuring media).

8. Contingency Planning for Election Threats ([31:13])

• Hosts and Erica Chenoweth warn that there is no “referee in the sky” to save democracy; organization and readiness are key.
• Mobilization is most likely to surge after egregious abuses or election interference attempts.

Quote:

“The only source of power that is going to organize opposition to that kind of threat to our democracy is organized people power.”
— Ezra Levin (31:11)

• Emphasize the need for a multi-pronged approach: run and support pro-democracy candidates, mobilize voter turnout, and prepare for legal and protest-based defenses of election results.

9. Messaging and the Importance of Language ([56:06])

• Advocates for using clear, emotionally resonant language instead of sanitized bureaucratic terms.
• Tailor messaging to the audience: be clear about the stakes (“ripping children from their mothers”), but understand when to use more or less charged language.

Quote:

“Collectively we should be incredibly clear about the nature of what is happening here.”
— Leah Greenberg (56:48)

10. Nonviolent Discipline as Strategic Imperative ([59:19])

• Core to the “No Kings” protest and Indivisible organizing is a strict commitment to nonviolence and de-escalation.
• Research shows that maintaining nonviolent discipline maximizes public and electoral support and shapes the post-conflict society.

Quote:

“The way that we struggle will totally determine the type of country we are on the other side.”
— Erica Chenoweth (60:38)

11. Cultural Elements and Broad-Based Appeal ([42:39], [44:15])

• Art, music, and public figures are crucial for movements to emotionally connect and expand.
• Suggestions to invite musicians like Bruce Springsteen, Jesse Wells, and Lucinda Williams to upcoming "No Kings" protests.
• Culture is central— “culture eats strategy for breakfast.”

Notable Quotes (selected with Timestamps)

• Leah Greenberg [03:09]: “Democracy is not a spectator sport. If we want to beat these fascist clowns, we all have to get off the field.”
• Ezra Levin [10:51]: “It was not the murder and it was not the slander that shifted the political climate. It was the public response.”
• Erica Chenoweth [15:45]: “Actions only backfire when they are witnessed widely and made obvious that the state’s violence was unjust and disproportionate to the situation.”
• Erica Chenoweth [22:05]: “Protest is a tactic, and what is needed are strategies to build momentum, build power, and put pressure on institutions... that can actually bring about the change that’s needed.”
• Erica Chenoweth [24:35]: “Being against unites, being for divides… both things need to happen contemporaneously, but not necessarily by the same set of actors at the same time.”
• Ezra Levin [31:11]: “The only source of power that is going to organize opposition to that kind of threat to our democracy is organized people power.”
• Erica Chenoweth [60:38]: “The way that we struggle will totally determine the type of country we are on the other side.”

Noteworthy Segments & Timestamps

• Celebrating new Indivisible Groups — [04:09]
• DHS/ICE Funding Bill Explained — [07:23]
• Erica Chenoweth on Mass Organizing — [13:52]
• Purpose of Mass Protest — [19:50]
• Coalition of No vs. Yes — [24:35]
• Role of Economic Action — [27:10]
• Election Contingency Planning — [31:13]
• Primaries and Accountability — [46:11-54:44]
• Messaging and Language — [56:06]
• Commitment to Nonviolence — [59:19]
• Culture’s Role in Movements — [44:15]

Tone and Delivery

• Frank, urgent, passionate language with moments of levity (musician shout-outs, internal jokes).
• Hosts are unapologetically critical of both Republican and Democratic leaders who fall short, urging relentless grassroots accountability.
• Erica Chenoweth provides a scholarly yet accessible grounding in movement strategy.
• The podcast repeatedly returns to the message of collective action, community solidarity, and disciplined hope.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Get involved: Find or start a local Indivisible group—power is built locally.
• Nonviolent resistance works: discipline, broad participation, tactical diversity, and strategic use of language and culture amplify effectiveness.
• Stay vigilant: Organize not just for elections, but for the aftermath—be prepared for attempts to undermine democratic outcomes.
• Hold leaders accountable: Use primaries and grassroots pressure to ensure fighters, not bystanders, represent communities.
• Everyday actions matter: Calls, rallies, boycotts, and art all contribute to resisting authoritarianism and defending democracy.